Last week, having tried and failed to kill him with the more traditional lethal injection, the state of Alabama suffocated Kenneth Smith to death for his role in a 1988 murder-for-hire. In this unprecedented method, which the state has called “nitrogen hypoxia”, the victim is forced to inhale pure nitrogen, depriving them of oxygen until they are dead. Though this technique was sold as a more humane form of execution, “nitrogen hypoxia” happens to be a bullshit, made-up term used to lend a veneer of scientific legitimacy to a barbaric style of state-sanctioned murder. Smith shook and spasmed in the 15 minutes before he died, appearing to witnesses to be in considerable pain.
Pragmatically, the case against the death penalty is impregnable. Hundreds of people on death row in the United States have been exonerated in the past 50 years alone, demonstrating the serial incompetence of our criminal justice system. There is no way to evaluate how many innocent people have been put to death, though there are dozens of cases where we now know that someone who was executed was probably innocent. You may dip back into history or stick to contemporary examples. Italian immigrants and anarchists Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti were put to death in 1927 for robbery and murder despite another man having confessed to the crime, and were only officially exonerated more than half a century later. One of many more recent cases of likely wrongful execution occurred in 2004, when Cameron Todd Willingham, a Texas man accused of setting a fire that killed his three children, was administered a lethal injection, despite very shaky evidence of his guilt. The testimony of the fire marshal involved was comically unscientific and unreliable, but Texas governor Rick Perry appeared to manoeuvre behind the scenes to make sure Willingham was executed, in need of the political bump that (perversely) accompanies any use of the death penalty in Texas. Then there are those, like Anthony Apanovitch, who essentially everyone admits are innocent, but whom the legal system refuses to free from death row.
Supporters of the death penalty relentlessly harp on about cases where there is supposedly no doubt of guilt, but of course cops, prosecutors, and politicians always claim there is no doubt of guilt in any case they press. Confession is frequently seen as ironclad proof; in reality, confessions are routinely coerced or obtained under inappropriate circumstances. Richard Masterson’s supposed confession occurred while he was going through a brutal drug withdrawal, and the medical examiner who worked on his case was later fired for falsifying testimony and lying about his credentials. Masterson was put to death in 2016 all the same.
And even where there is proof, there may be bias. The history of American executions, like all parts of our justice system, is rife with racism, even beyond the extra-judicial lynchings that stain our history. Since the end of the federal moratorium in 1976, application of the death penalty has disproportionately fallen on black and Hispanic men, and that’s just at the sentencing level. There’s an entire corpus of research into how the trials that lead to the sentencing phase are unduly influenced by race. On death row, the facts are stark: 41% of inmates on it are black people, who make up less than 14% of America’s population.
Even when the outcome is not an actual death sentence, the death penalty distorts our system and its underlying pursuit of justice. The potential for execution is routinely used as a threat through which false confessions and bad convictions are obtained; not coincidentally, 59% of death penalty-eligible murder cases in the past 50 years were found to have involved a supposed admission of guilt to authorities.
In any case, those vanishingly rare cases where there is genuinely ironclad certainty that a capital crime was committed can’t outweigh the dozens and dozens of cases where a sentence of death was unjustly handed down. The utter finality of death ensures that no mistake can ever be fixed. Those who are imprisoned for crimes they did not commit can never get the lost years back, but they can at least be freed, and receive financial compensation. If one innocent man is executed, that failure poisons every other execution, no matter what the facts of the crime are. That is an evil that cannot be taken back.
However you might want to quantify human life — and, for the record, I don’t think you should do that at all — the maths just doesn’t work out for the pro-execution side. Common intuition to the contrary, executing a prisoner in the United States costs more than jailing them for life. Even in the most execution-happy states, it will usually take more than a decade for the sentence to actually be carried out, and these years will (thankfully) be filled with complex appeals and legal wrangling that are immensely expensive for the state. It’s gross to engage in a dollars-and-cents justification for killing someone anyway, but if you’re committed to doing so, you’ll find the facts are against you. Especially given that the death penalty has never been proven to serve as a deterrent to committing capital crimes — partly because criminals who commit violent felonies are almost always the kind of people who do not think about consequences.
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SubscribeThe restoration of capital punishment would effectively decriminalise murder. Even if the legislation provided for it, then no judge could conceivably accept a majority verdict in a capital trial. In the Britain of the twenty-first century, there would always be at least one of 12 randomly assembled members of the general public who would vote to acquit anyone rather than risk the imposition of the death penalty. In fact, there would always be at least two or three. Those who wanted to bring back what they saw as higher qualifications for jurors would, if anything, increase that number.
If there were never any realistic possibility of a conviction for murder, then no one would ever be charged with it. Instead, ways would be found of convicting murderers of manslaughter, resentment of the injustice of which we have seen in Nottingham in recent days. So convicted, they would almost certainly be released earlier than if their records were of intentional homicide. Britain would become a very much more dangerous place.
In any case, who among the kind of people who became judges in today’s Britain would ever impose the death penalty? Who among the kind of people who became prosecutors in today’s Britain would ever seek its imposition, or chance that by bringing a charge of murder? Even if there were a high likelihood of conviction. Indeed, especially so, on principle. Elect them, you say? Well, Members of Parliament are elected, and they rejected capital punishment by 403 votes to 159 the last time that the House of Commons divided on it at all. Under a Conservative Government. 30 years ago this month.
Quite an interesting essay. I’d be curious to know what restrictions the author thinks there should be on abortion.
I don’t think the two subjects are in any way related, though the fact you’re trying would imply your more interested in culture war bickering than debating the pros and cons of the article in question
Not in any way? I absolutely think there is a matter of ethical consistency to consider with regard to the death penalty, abortion, and warfare (especially with a draft involved). However, I think one can be mostly opposed to or even mostly in favor of all three without falling into rank hypocrisy or inconsistency.
The sanctity of human life that is championed by staunch death penalty opponents should extend, at a minimum, to any fetus that can live outside the womb if given the chance. But I would still kill the Austrian-born villain (you know who) or someone like Ted Bundy who, months after his initial arrest, escaped from prison and committed several more murders before his re-capture. That’s the kind of person that makes my reluctant support of the death penalty–in certain extreme cases–very hard to kill. Inconsistent? Pardon me.
I too am against the death penalty and I think Freddie well makes the case for its opposition in this article. I also think the death penalty does relate to abortion by his own words here. Simply replace “the death penalty” with “abortion” in this paragraph in his article to see the connection: “The existence of the death penalty asks us to soberly and seriously consider exactly what we actually believe, not who we’re against or what tribe to which we belong. It requires us to treat ideas as if they are life or death. It insists that we maintain the most fragile state of all, in the 21st century: the state of unapologetic seriousness. And most people, it seems, are unwilling to abide by those terms.” The death penalty and abortion are both issues which ask us to soberly and seriously consider exactly what we believe, not who we’re against or what tribe to which we belong. Both are issues of life or death. Both demand to be dealt with in a state of unapologetic seriousness. Innocent lives are occasionally taken in the death penalty. Innocent lives are always taken in an abortion. Both are injustices to the innocent life taken and in each issue someone needs to stand up and defend the innocent. I’d love to know if Freddie has written anything on abortion. Would love to hear his thoughts.
I agree with that, they do both seem to fall in the realm of sheer opinion rather than any quantifiable data as to why you think the way you do, but I find linking them to be simply lazy and overly emotional.
Maybe that’s because I don’t class a foetus as a person in its own right until it can survive separated from its mother, whereas the possibility of killing an innocent fully fledged thinking human being for something they didn’t do troubles me
I think the tone you’ve adopted suggests that you’re projecting when you accuse someone else of “bickering”.
A few months ago a woman had her sentence overturned for having aborted a 32-34 week foetus/child during lockdown because she found the birth would be inconvenient because of her complicated domestic arrangements. The overturning of the sentence was welcomed by members of the commentariat like Iain Dale. I do think the moral inconsistency between those against the death penalty but supportive of that mother is relevant and worth thinking about.
I agree I think it was wrong for that sentence to be overturned, the laws are set at the point they are for a reason (even if personally I’d knock the cut off back slightly), and to me what that lady did was borderline infanticide
There are currently state jurisdictions with no protective threshold for the fetus. This means that up until the mother is in the process of labor associated with an intended birth the fetus can be aborted.
https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/state-policies-abortion-bans
All the mother needs to do is to find a clinic that supports this,and in Portland some do.
Let me be clear on my own position: I have no moral reservations about such an abortion if state law allows it, nor do I have any similar reservations about the death penalty if similarly supported by state law.
EXCELLENT point Old Git.
Abortion is one Million times more wicked than killing the murderers. So sick is society they love killing babies, but killing adult killers? No they love saving their life. Sick, sick, sick society.
You seem to be very ignorant, Simon.
Yes, the writer’s breathlessness and proneness to gratuitous insults notwithstanding, it’s refreshing to hear someone stand up for the presumption of innocence. One remembers the cart loads of nuns forced up scaffolds in the late 1700s. Not to mention the hundreds of millions massacred in the early 20 century, on presumption that innocence comes only at the end of History. The modern world loves to make death. Hurray for this contrarian.
Abortion is nowhere near the same as the death penalty if that’s what you’re getting at.
Abortion is the termination of a human life because it is inconvenient to allow it to continue.
So not true. There are so many, different reasons for abortion.
Killing someone by hypoxia is VERY easy. It’s what chokeholds can do (and no, chokeholds don’t choke.) A member of my family committed suicide by taking sleeping pills and tying a large plastic bag over her head. The oxygen in the bag is gradually depleted until you die of hypoxia. We have no idea whether she fell sleep before she died or not, because there’s no thrashing or any other sign of hypoxia. You get a little loopy and then you pass out.
I believe, this is what the “nitrogen hypoxia” theory was supposed to replicate. Getting a straight answer about what happens in an execution is VERY hard, since essentially everyone who ever witnesses one is either a participant or has an agenda. However, it appears Freddie overstates his case with “he spasmed for 15 minutes”. Eyewitnesses (even those withi an agenda) said it was about 2 minutes and the warden who has observed lots of executions said it was typical. (https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/happened-nations-nitrogen-gas-execution-ap-eyewitness-account-106725727) However even that is absurd.
Glad I click on the article to be able to read your comment
There is off course a variant :- Autoerotic asphyxiation or AA to its friends.
I wonder if the yanks would allow an audience to witness that execution? Would certainly make the evangelicals clutch their pearls watching the condemned going at himself while it’s going on
Do you recall “snuff movies” by any chance?
It was never my genre of choice to be honest, I was always more of a Mary Poppins type of film buff
Raises an interesting question: if executions were once again public in the US, how many would attend? I feel pretty certain that the first such executions would be sparsely attended due to negative social associations, and yet there *would* be some who’d attend for various personal reasons, whether a relative/friend of a victim, someone trying to make a political statement, or simply to act all macho.
And then after a sort of “normalization” period–perhaps 20 years?–would attendance be larger?
I’m not trying to be cynical, but there definitely were times when the populace seemed to like to attend executions. It’s not an alien concept.
It’s worth noting that the automatic bodily sense of suffocation comes from higher levels of carbon dioxide in the blood. That then triggers the panic that your friend mitigated by sleeping pills.
If instead the air being breathed is entirely depleted of oxygen, the body near instantly stops producing carbon dioxide (as there’s no oxygen store for cells to produce more carbon dioxide), there is no significant rise in blood carbon dioxide, and the body has no automatic sense of suffocation.
The effect of depleted oxygen environments is well observed because it infrequently occurs in industrial accidents involving inert atmospheres. A common one is argon fire suppression systems. HSE reports into several of these accidents record that the victims were unaware of the changing atmosphere before silently succumbing. All such systems come with that explicit warning.
Use Fentanyl.
It was ‘typical’. That’s ok then.
Since we no longer produce sodium Pentothal , and the EU won’t sell it to us for executions, propofol can take its place. Used daily for over 30 years to anesthetize patients for anesthesia , the mild irritation while infused is the excuse for “ cruel and unusual” punishment. Give me a break.
Yes, propofol, perhaps followed by something more lethal if propofol is not seamlessly lethal at high doses, would probably be the least physically disruptive.
I ve had it for several procedures. An anesthesiologist once told me that it’s jokingly called “milk of amnesia”, and within my experience it’s entirely fitting.
The air is 80% nitrogen. FAA studies show pilots reduced of oxygen, but being given plenty of nitrogen, due to high altitude just fall asleep. That being said, the US “Justice system” is largely illogical, oppresive, frequently unjust and always cruel. It never helps, unless more suffering is considered helping.
News break: one of the functions of the state since the dawn of time is to put people to death.
Either the state does it, typically after performing some kind of delineated process (imperfect, but optimizable); or grieved individuals do it, typically after undergoing emotional grief and only with this limited perspective in mind.
Either you 1) pursue justice as best as possible or 2) you b**ch about it like as naive child without improving the situation while giving aside to those who 3) allow victimizers to take advantage of the weak on the whole.
Your comment reflects the state of human nature accurately.
Topics like this one are susceptible to displays of passionate virtuous outpourings designed with to impress the readers with the moral enlightenment of the author of the original thread or a comment.
There is no objective justice; it’s simply vengeance that one agrees with. A separate function of *public* justice is to affirm that socially approved boundaries on behavior exist and have consequences to those deemed to be in violation.
Same as it ever was…
The execution of the innocent is, by itself, enough of a reason to ban the death penalty.
Is it, though?
Again and again we read of people who have been wrongly convicted and spent many, many years in prison.
By the logic of your argument, to avoid the risk of imprisonment of the innocent, prison should also be banned.
Imprisonment of the innocent is indeed a terrible thing, however at least you can attempt to make it up to them if they’re later found to be innocent. You can’t do that if they’re six feet under
Yes, I get that.
But, as you rightly say, it’s only ‘attempt’ to make it up to them after many years in prison, their life irreparably damaged and maybe few years left to live. The harm’s done, and can’t be undone.
My point is to question the strength of the argument that the risk of penalising the innocent is so persuasive ‘by itself’ that a particular punishment should be banned.
If one form of punishment, why not another?
I am not putting forward the desirabilty of capital punishment. I am not putting forward the undesirabilty of prison.
My question is about the validity or persuasiveness of lines of reasoning.
Me, I’m satisfied that due process in the criminal justice system in the US is generous and redundant and I seriously doubt that of the percentage of all criminal convictions a significant percentage are wrongfully convicted.
If you’ve been on juries in a criminal case, or personally know attorneys involved in criminal prosecution or defense, this, too, might be your conclusion, I don’t know.
Mr Bob covered it neatly.
Perhaps.
Unfortunately, my response to Mr Bob, which I posted shortly after his comment appeared, has disappeared into the ether.
Certainly sounds like a reason to ban abortion. Except there we execute the innocent and call it health care.
Well, you certainly are an old git.
Change the record, Clare. The needle’s stuck.
Hey grumpy, are you open-minded enough to watch a movie called “Trial by Fire’ on Prime Video? It’s the true story of an innocent man in Texas who was executed. I’d be most interested in hearing your feedback.
Death by Medical errors is one of the largest, it not the largest, cause of death in USA. Joh Hopkins says it is over 250,000 a year – and they are a hospital, so way under report – but a quick screen grab of MSM, MSNBC
”Medical errors, including wrong diagnoses, botched surgeries and medication mistakes, are the third leading cause of death in the United States, a new study suggests.”
I suppose then you ban Doctors from practicing medicine?
As a thought experiment–and I mean this seriously, it’s worthy of thought and discussion and has no correct answer so far as I can see–is to turn the old prescription that it’s better to allow 10 criminals, or maybe 100, to go free rather than punish an innocent man on its head…
Is it better to jail 10 (or 100) innocent men in order to make sure that one Ted Bundy type does not go free?
What happened to the old good bullet in the head? Or another reliable tool a guillotine? It’s such a fake humanitarianism to torture even the worst offender the rest of his life by American jail instead of putting him out of his misery.
Is it indeed more expensive to execute one or to lodge, feed and pay regular lawyer expenses (applying for parole) for the rest of his life?
The best argument against capital punishment is judicial mistakes , but maybe it’s the reason to improve the system?
And how about mistakes on the other side releasing rapists to commit more crimes?
And in any case that’s the rules of the game. It’s not perfect and we’ll all die in the end.
And capital punishment is not about deterrence, it’s about social contract. The state owes me security and the simple fact is that the worst criminal when dead is entirely safe to be around
If they’re locked up for life though then they also pose no risk to the public, and you don’t run the risk of topping an innocent person
How about incarcerating an innocent person for life? Feel better about it?
Yes to be honest, as there’s always a chance that mistake could be corrected. Something that’s impossible if you’ve done them in
“…that mistake could be corrected.” Nope. No way to correct decades of a person’s life spent in prison. Those years can’t be given back.
Perhaps you should ask those many wrongly incarcerated people, subsequently exonerated, if they would have preferred to die rather than be freed later, even if that was may years later, which it is not always the case. Or perhaps you are languishing innocently in jail, or were until released, so that you can speak with any authority at all.
Yes, they would have lost those years, but someone wrongfully convicted and imprisoned could be line for a substantial compensation payment if subsequently proven to be not guilty.
Not in the UK where they are likely to be charged for ‘food and accommodation’ during those ‘LOST’ years.
They can’t be given back but at least they’d have some time to spend as a free person, which is more than they’d have if you execute them. It’s certainly the lesser of two evils
But isn’t quality of life more important than quantity?
Suppose it depends on how good and what time frame.
However if you give me the option of spending 20 years inside and then being found innocent, I’d take that over being hanged and then being exonerated after my death
No. But you know that’s a weak argument. They can of course be released. We cannot resurrect the dead
So does that mean – if a prisoner can’t benefit from exoneration after years of incarceration, you might just as well have killed him? Oh, ok.
It’s an imperfect system. If one is convicted of murder, they must be removed from society, but there is a chance to appeal and be exonerated. If executed, you have no such chance.
A lot of innocent people are being freed via the Innocence Project who would not have been freed were they executed.
It’s too expensive.
I was astounded when a college friend maintained that 60 years ago. It really made me think about it. While it is more expensive, don’t we want a world that doesn’t base decisions so completely on money? And maybe those billions we find for war, could be used to offset the costs of not executing prisoners.
But why is so expensive to keep people in jail?
Prisons aren’t cheap places to run. All the cameras, guards, various security systems, food, water, rehabilitation attempts etc. It soon adds up
They used to be when we used Hulks.
Maybe re-instituting transportation to the antipodes?
The Prison Warders* Union, and the supine behaviour of the wretched Home Office.
.
(*Now called Officers for some inexplicable reason.)
Depends who you think the public are. Many prison officers have been corrupted by prisoners.
The issue is keeping them locked up for life. There’s been more than once instance of a U.S. state governor doing mass releases of murderers on his way out of office. Also, the very same people who oppose capital punishment also work very hard to make sure no one is locked up for life.
I oppose killing people for killing people but I don’t oppose incarcerating people for killing people. Sorry to mess up those tidy little boxes you sweep everyone into..
Your first two are just too messy for ultra squeamish ‘modern man’ to deal with.
Over ‘here’ we always found hanging worked rather well, although we did to have to drug* the recipients occasionally.
(*Brandy.)
Exactly – the reason Kenneth Smith “suffered” was the manner of his death. He could have been dead in an instant with a bullet. The euthanasia chemical they use for animals is also quick and painless.
As is Fetanyl.
This is ghoulish.
It’s only ghoulish if discussing capital punishment is entirely off the board. On the contrary, if we’re hashing out pros/cons, the method of potential execution is as valid as whether a life sentence is to be solitary confinement or otherwise.
I wouldn’t like to see the death penalty reintroduced for 3 reasons.
Firstly I don’t believe it’s a deterrent, the countries that have it still tend to have higher rates of murder than those that don’t. I understand murder rates are complex and the result of many variables but I think most are either spur of the moment or done in the belief you won’t get caught at all as opposed to the punishment you’ll receive.
Secondly I don’t believe it would be applied evenly. Somebody from a wealthy powerful background would be much more likely to avoid it than somebody from a poor background, even if their crimes were greater.
Lastly, but most importantly, if you execute the wrong person you can never undo it.
There’s a few lesser reasons, such as having friends and family who are screws or social workers and hearing the depraved upbringings some of these people have had means I have a degree of sympathy that I never had when I was younger, but these are of much lesser importance than the main three reasons.
I don’t doubt some people deserve death for their crimes, but the risk of executing an innocent person far outweighs the benefit of bumping off a guilty one in my eyes
I respect your point of view on this issue and almost agree with it. I might come over to your abolitionist camp (speaking from an American point of view, where most states allow it) if I thought all the worst criminals could be safely held in prison. But what of a bloody autocrat who has supporters ready to bust him out, or someone like Ted Bundy, who lost 40 pounds, escaped through a vent, and committed several more murders before they caught him again?
These are exceptions that prove the rule.
But if you make the rule absolute how do you corral the most dangerous and devious killers? I think that in our current world the ultimate penalty should be rare, yet available in extreme cases. In America there are multiple “exceptions” that fit my criteria every year. Not many though.
Then so are the wrongful executions.
They’re both corner cases and wonder of wonders we are making a general rule to cover the exception rather than the common case.
It would seem better to make a general rule for the common cases and exceptional procedures to cover the exceptions to the general rule.
The exceptional procedures are called commutation/pardon/appeal/retrial.
There seem to me to be adequate safeguards in the present US system.
If you could be sure you’d never execute and innocent person, would that change my view? Is my objection to the death sentence pragmatic or moral? I don’t know. If you could prove to me that the death penalty saved innocent lives – what would I think then?
I do know I don’t believe in the death penalty but hanging is definitely too good for some people.
Anyone who deliberately targets children, old people, disabled people or even defenceless animals disgusts me. I don’t think I should ever be given power over someone who’d tortured any living creature, because I would want to watch their suffering and that’s not a good thing.
My response is emotional and paradoxical I know. But in a referendum I would vote against.
Good question, and the honest answer is that I don’t know. If you could have some perfect system whereby no wrongful convictions could ever occur and the rich and powerful were punished the same as the poor then my opposition to it may diminish, but unfortunately I don’t think a system will ever be possible. We’ll always be reliant on humans to investigate the crimes, weigh the evidence and decide the appropriate punishment, and we humans will always be flawed creatures with our predetermined opinions and biases
In my youth I strongly opposed capital punishment and agreed with sentiment expressed by the author. Then in 1980, I was exposed to the Steven Judy case. His crimes were heinous and at his trial he confessed, threatened to kill the judge, jury, and lawyers. He promised that if they did not convict him and put him to death he would continue to kill. Despite my opposition to capital punishment, there was no question in my mind; he needed to be executed. Same with Ted Bundy, Timothy McVeigh, and many other cold blooded murderers.
He needed to be executed, or he deserved to be executed?
Both.
Both!
I share your point of view: we need sparing recourse to that ultimate penalty for the most depraved or unrepentant killers.
And how do you decide the point at which someone is absolutely, definitely guilty as opposed to guilty ‘beyond all reasonable doubt’?
I don’t as a jury of one. But Dylann Roof’s public, execution-style murder of nine churchgoers, with his openly racist motives, comes to mind. So does the Las Vegas shooter. Many but not all mass shooters take themselves out before capture, yet lack the decency to start by killing themselves. Or they lack a sense of lasting “reward”.
” They lack a sense of lasting reward?” I don’t understand that.
Karma or an afterlife.
*Or even a proper fear of the lasting evil that can be left behind, in a real-world way, after such an act.
I can relate to the” lasting evil left behind”. Our actions have a ripple effect that’s for sure.
Clare, we can explain it for you but we can’t understand it for you.
You, obviously, don’t realize that you are projecting your own ignorance, you old git.
Some cases are blatantly obvious.
Exactly. It shouldn’t be automatic if a person is found guilty but can be used if it’s very obvious that they are..
I don’t have a problem with that, but how and where do you draw that line? I don’t think that it is possible to do so.
The second to last paragraph is exactly the problem, the author doesn’t understand the other side. Other phrases such as describing Kansas (which voted down anti-abortion measures in 2022) as “ultra-conservative” and describing the popularity of the death penalty’s use in line with the law as perverse or the use of MAGA lunatics to smear the other side makes a critical reader who agrees with the author think there is another motive. Indeed there is, to drag the debate into the vortex of the culture war.
Unherd, you’ve got to wheedle these sort of things out in editing – they aren’t necessary or helpful. This article could be read in the Gurdian for free, it isn’t worth paying for. Try to find journalists who do understand the other side to have a good article.
In the last ten years before the death penalty was abolished (1955-1965) 47 murderers were executed in England and Wales. All of the cases have been reviewed multiple times. None of the convictions were found to be unsafe.
Every year since The Murder Act abolished capital punishment has had a murder rate 3-4 times higher than the 1955-1965 period.
In the ten years 2011-2021, 20 people in England and Wales were murdered by people who had previously served a prison sentence for murder.
Hanging was a perfectly humane method of execution. And the Singaporeans still use equipment based on the British design (ditto their caning horses for less serious criminals).
Interestingly the Israelis have preserved the two British gallows that did such sterling work during the Palestine Mandate 1919-1948.
One is in the former ‘Russian Compound’ in Jerusalem, the other in what used to be Acre Gaol. Both were in ‘working order’ as I recall.
No doubt a good few Palestinian kids have been dangling from them recently knowing the Israelis, for the heinous crime of throwing stones at the IDF
They are no longer ‘in use’ but rather acts as shrines to Jewish terrorists we hanged for various atrocities committed during the Mandate.
Well the 91 dead in the King David hotel look pretty small beer in history’s relativist rear view mirror. Recent events clearly down to Islamists at ground level, but remember the Oslo accord was de-railed by a Charadim(?) Zionist. What’s different this time is BBC/Labour etc totally missing this point and calling for Shoah #2. Their mentors spent 1933-45 trying extirpate Judaism amongst other groups, and how did that end? First sovereign Jewish state for over 2000 years, a free market democracy and packing nukes to boot. Lefites wonder why they can never win in free elections? partly due to most ppl aren’t stupid enough to fall for the “pie in the sky when you die” promise, but also cos most of us get on with other ethnic groups and certainly don’t want to get involved in their fights when its f-all to do with us!
I think this publication was designed just for you Charles.
And these should be used routinely on terrorists. Israel is one country that is seriously in danger of disappearing if she doesn’t get punitive toward the enemy within.
This country is not far behind.
Which country?
Clare, if ignorance could make a noise you’d be a foghorn.
Funny!
You’ve got it in for me, haven’t you? Don’t confuse a willingness to admit to not knowing something, with ignorance. We don’t know what we don’t know, but ignorance is not knowing and having no interest in knowing.
No, that is literally obtuseness.
Not really, Clare. You are equating ignorance in a pejorative sense: lack of intelligence or stupidity. That is not its real meaning which is lack of knowing (about something).
There is no shame in willing to admit to such lack of knowledge, which you did in your post which sparked this.
As I clarified above. There are commenters from all over the world, so saying “this country” could be any country.
And so in what sense of the word do you suppose Grumpy old Git meant it?
There are commenters here from all over the world. It seems like a valid question.
In the enlightened Muslim world, the condemned have their heads chopped off. are publicly hanged on large cranes, or simply thrown off of a roof onto the pavement below.
Do they use them?
They are no longer ‘in use’ but rather acts as shrines to Jewish terrorists we hanged for various atrocities committed during the Mandate.
Thank you for educating me.
About what?
The British gallows.
Then the Israelis should put them to us.
It’s so weird that some very strange people manage to find a way to attack Israel when there is no relevance to the article being discussed. Such a habit is surely a pathological hatred against the Jewish state. Now let me try to think to wonder why this might be the case…..
The abolition perfectly illustrates what is wrong with our system.
At the time as I recall there was NO public clamour for abolition, far from it. However Parliament had discovered its ‘social conscience’ and was determined to ride roughshod over the will of the people.
Since then, as you correctly say the Murder rate has soared and this despite desperate attempts to manipulate the figures by the blatant downgrading of many murders to the lesser charge of manslaughter.
If we held a referendum today* on the issue I wonder what the result would be?
(* Which we should, if our much vaunted democracy is really worth anything.)
I think you meant illustrates, although given the lack of serious engagement in the matter by the powers-that-be, illiterates is quite apropos.
Yes, thanks!
That damned auto- gremlin who lurks inside my I pad
A bad workman blames his tools!
Indeed, but tools don’t usually bite back which, in this sort of instance, iPads certainly do.
The whole point of our democracy is that it is ‘representative’ – ie we elect people to represent us, and can unelect them if we don’t like the way that they do so. Start holding plebiscites on stuff and where does it end?
We we’ve had a few already on other little issues. Besides it seems to work very well in that paragon of virtue….Switzerland.
That’s not really the point, is it? The point is innocent people have been killed via the death penalty and juries are reluctant to find someone guilty if the death penalty is on the table.
Derek Bently, Timothy Evans, Edith Thompson. All three hangings were widely considered to be unsafe. Its very difficult to overturn miscarriages of justice in the UK but the evidence is strong that none of these three should have been executed. Excellent article, by the way.
All three of those executions took place before 1955. You can find many miscarriages of justice if you trawl the archives – try Foxe’s Book of Matryrs if you want some belters.
But in the last decade before abolition – the era with the closest techniques to modern police work – there were no miscarriages. And since then the technology innovations: forensics, cctv, ubiquitous camera phones, SIM tracking etc have massively decreased the possibility of a judicial error.
As in earlier days, the Home Secretary would have the right to commute capital sentences where there was any doubt about the verdict or where insanity etc is suspected. When Winston Churchill was Home Sec, he commuted half of all death sentences to life imprisonment.
I’m sure you would agree that those 20 people who were murdered by previously convicted murderers in the last ten years suffered terrible miscarriages of justice. Had those criminals swung, those poor innocent souls would still be alive.
At least he didn’t chuck in Ruth Ellis.
Does killing a murderer bring peace to the family of the victim? I think that’s an important point. I have always thought they should be asked what is a just punishment.
The principle, I thought, is that the crime is against the state, not the victim. Otherwise we fall into the trap of judging the victim’s worth as well as the criminal’s intent.
If a member of my family particularly a child was murdered, I’d be quite happy to execute the perpetrator myself.
The Birmingham 6 and the Guildford 4 would all presumably have hanged
As the late Lord Denning would have wished.
a long crocodile tear fest of an article. Send this guy to the Ukraine front – let him pick out the bodies and eall us how innocent they are.
Send this bed wetter to Gaza and let him say who of the dead is innocent of guilty.
F this killer – I do not care it took 15 minutes. Lots more of the same is needed, lots more.
THINK OF Victims! Oh, I forgot – the criminals Are the victims to a lefty.
I thought it was a well-balanced article.
I don’t know what a ‘lefty’ is as I have views that range all over the political spectrum, depending on the issue. But this kind of gleeful rant on a cold-blooded killing sounds deranged. If you consider it wrong for someone else to commit murder (and it is) how do you logically justify committing it yourself?
A couple of deBoer’s worries about the risk of false convictions could be resolved as follows:
1. An automatic 10 year holding period between sentencing and execution to allow exonerating evidence, if any, to come to light. No rushing. This should deter political meddling.
2. If an executed person was later found to be innocent, substantial compensation to be paid his/her beneficiaries (with priority given to offspring/dependents, then spouses or partners, then any other nominated beneficiaries). The compensation to be paid by any parties, including public organisations, who failed to investigate properly, lied, withheld evidence, used duress, etc.
The cruelty of execution systems could be avoided if the same process were used as for assisted suicide, which many people choose to undertake and is intended to be painless.
To the moral principal one can only respond that all victims also had a right to life, as do future victims of repeat offenders, including victims who are fellow inmates in prison. Solitary confinement is also viewed as a form of torture by some authorities, so capital punishment occurs where the rights of one person (the murderer) conflict with the rights of another (a potential victim).
If you don’t believe in heaven or hell, this is always going to be a value judgement:
– uphold the right to life for all even when this results in some of the population being murdered, or
– adopt capital punishment which abridges the rights of those who pose a risk of death to others, or
– mandate solitary confinement which protects the right to life of all but may amount to torture (both legally and because the effect of solitary confinement will be different for each prisoner).
What does “caning horses for less serious criminals” mean?
One wonders why Texas doesn’t use the easily available and effective Fentanyl for its executions.
Presumably the equipment that criminals in Singapore are strapped onto before they’re caned, Clare.
Correct! Also known as a punishment horse or flogging frame. The British design is favoured because it protects the prisoner from the strokes of the rattan cane hitting their back which can cause permanent damage rather than their buttocks.
Corporal punishment in Singapore is mandatory, in addition to a prison sentence, for people that commit certain crimes including rape, drug dealing and overstaying a visa (to deter illegal immigration). They have their heads screwed on these Singaporeans.
Thank you for explaining. Not to be confused with “Flogging a dead horse”!
Hear! Hear!
The argument that the death penalty is not an effective deterrent loses its ‘oumpf’ in the face of such facts. In any case, the deterrence angle is irrelevant. If people commit the ultimate crime (unless there are any doubts or genuine mitigating circumstances to warrant imprisonment instead of death) then they have forfeited their right to continued existence. In this respect, the death penalty is a consequence, not a punishment. Continued imprisonment is a punishment.
The author forgot to look at what other Western countries do.
The majority don’t
The Japanese have an interesting approach.
I never thought of myself as particularly soft, but the way the Japs keep them in the dark until the day makes even me feel slightly sorry for them
What’s wrong with CRUCIFIXION? It was good enough for Jesus.
Not environmentally friendly enough, having to chop down trees for the crosses
A good point, I hadn’t considered that!
“Nail ‘em up I say! Nail some sense into them!”
While i know you mean it in jest, crucifixion is agonising. Not sure anyone deserves it.
Mind you Jesus was fortunate to get off with a ‘Friday afternoon job’!
A mere three hours or so of agony rather than the normal three days.
The Roman scourging probably shortened the time.
Yes, how very thoughtful of them. I’d never thought of Pontius Pilate being slightly ‘woke’ but I may have alter my opinion of him.
It’s all hearsay.
I’m not a religious man but as far as I’m aware Jesus did exist and was crucified. It’s the whole son on God business and rising from the dead where things get a little far fetched in my opinion
Well, yes – apart from the eyewitness accounts and the government records.
Not so. Criticism of the American way of doing things is well deserved, but some convicted killers do go on to kill others in prison or on release. Those extra deaths are an argument for the death penalty in certain cases.
Execution should be certain, swift, and rare. An expectation that the American system does not observe.
Romans 13
”3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.”
Exactly.
Nonsense. Rewarding murderers with free board and lodging for life is what really degrades a country.
And free healthcare, entertainment, recreation.
As that recreation often involved tormenting hapless people who have ended up in prison for stupid mistakes – that is a real tragic consequence of the twisted ‘Humanity’ the writer talks of.
This guy sheds enough crocodile tears in his TLDR thing above they could have waterboarded him first.
You seem nice.
Love your user name.
I’d say more condescending than grumpy, without really making any points of their own
Exactly.
Deleted
Although I am generally opposed to the death penalty, I am am more wedded to democracy. If ‘the people’ want the death penalty to be in place, it should be.
Nobody has offered me a referendum on it.
“ The utter finality of death ensures that no mistake can ever be fixed.”
I actually wrote a novel (The Sentence) around this theme.
For me, irreversibility in the case of a wrongful execution is the ultimate clincher. I’m not saying the DP is justified in cases of ‘ironclad’ evidence (if such a thing exists), but the idea of executing even one innocent human being triggers a visceral reaction in me.
As for botched executions—there are plenty of them, and the stories make for difficult reading
over at the Death Penalty Information Center site.
What is astonishing is that Mr Smith seems to spent nearly 36 years on Death Row!
Back in 1960 we were all rather surprised that one Caryl Chessman was executed after a mere 12 years!
Presumably lawyers ‘wax fat’ on this extraordinary ‘flash to bang’ procedure?
Pragmatically, the case against the death penalty is impregnable. Hundreds of people on death row in the United States have been exonerated in the past 50 years alone.
I agree and made a similar comment to an article in the Spectator. The response was that such deaths were a reasonable price to pay to punish or to deter.
Many people believe this. My response to the callous remark to question how they’d feel were it someone close to them being wrongly convicted was met with an accusation that I was emotional.
Many people believe the opposite of your very congent essay, no matter what.
Hundreds? That’s not so. There have been wrongful convictions overturned by DNA evidence, but there’s been no hundreds of capital cases in this equation.
Re the botching, Canada and Dignitas seem to be able to put hundreds of people to death each year, presumably without any of the scenes depicted here.
The debate is a complex moral issue. The “he thrashed for 15 minutes” emotional appeal should not be part of the discussion.
I’m also not sure why the concept of justice was not discussed. Cost benefit, mistakes, or excusing wrong doing because of a bad background, are surrounding issues but surely the central issue is around justice. The very human concept of some sort of fairness. As always the article deals only with the perpetrator. What about the victim and their family?
If somebody killed somebody near to me I would want and expect some sort of retribution. A whole life sentence that finished up being 8 or 10 years, as so often happens, would not hack it.
Assisted dying is safe and peaceful.
Execution is unpredictable and torturous.
Go figure.
Assisted dying is quick and painless because the state is able to buy the drugs they need to make it happen. Most companies now won’t sell their products to be used in executions
That is weird they would be too dainty to sell medical products to kill murderers, but killed 170 MILLION innocents with their deadly vax to make $ Billions! And still counting! Must be the money involved – and the insane political point scoring as the Bio-Medical-Pharma industry is more than happy to kill masses if it makes a profit – but not much off the death penalty – so they can claim a moral high ground although they are the most wicked industry; (with the Military Industrial Complex). ”Satan smiling with delight” is what happens at their board meetings.
Considering the deaths attributed to Covid stand at about 7 million worldwide (and that’s likely largely overinflated due to the way the data was collected), where on earth do you get 170 million deaths from the vaccine?
True. As I keep saying use Fentanyl.
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.
Good old Arnaud Almaric!
You can always rely on a Cistercian to get it right.
I am 100% in favor of the death penalty for heinous premeditated murder. I don’t need to spend time justifying my position because it’s obvious. To be concerned about the execution of a wrongfully convicted person is a legitimate concern however there is a solution to this problem. Our US Constitutional standard is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is perfect for the guilt phase of a trial. And then comes the sentencing phase of the trial. There is no reason the standard for imposition of the death penalty could not be even stricter – absolute certainty. We are ever more able to prove with surveillance and DNA testing, who is guilty of murder with absolute certainty. It’s good that we are a compassionate society, but to expend our compassion on depraved killers warps our own sense of justice and makes our communities less safe. A simple procedural change can insure we do not execute the wrongly convicted and we should establish this procedurally and then execute the killers who wrongly pull and manipulate our heart strings.
Well said.
Check out Norman Mailer and John Henry Abbott. Author Mailer led a campaign to free convicted murder John Henry Abbot from prison. He was finally freed. Not long after his release, Abbot got into an argument with a Filipino waiter in a NY restaurant and stabbed the waiter to death. Mailer was asked to comment, but was not available, “out of the country” or something like that. Forgotten history. Our Elite, I believe, gets a sexual thrill out of the thought of a strong, violent male performing unspeakable acts on his victims (surrogates for themselves). The reason why bi-sexual Leonard Bernstein was so attracted to the extremely violent Black Panthers and regularly hosted parties where he and his elite could marvel, drool and fantasize over these violent black males who openly expressed their intentions of raping and killing them. Are any of them innocent? Ask them. Most will say that they are. Juries and our legal system said otherwise.
Mailer also tried to kill one of his wives, so you might be onto something here.
Why is Mailer so revered over there?
Surely he was no more that a bog standard pervert with a certain way with words?
More to the point: why do artists and writers such as Mailer view violent criminals with admiration? Do they see a free spirit unrestrained by petty social mores where the rest of us just see a dangerous thug?
This argument exists in a vacuum. If the central argument here is everyone has the right not to be killed, that includes everyone, including potential future victims. So there exists a point where the best, perhaps not only, but best way to protect their right is to remove singular and similar threats to their right to life.
When looking at execution practices in the US you get the impression that procedures are intentionally designed to be cruel. Why don’t they just put the delinquent to sleep with an overdose medication used in surgery? Because they want him to suffer.
It’s all about revenge, to satisfy irrational, atavistic motives buried behind the mask of civilization we are so proud of. It will require another level of evolution to get over this barbarism, but I am far from sure that it would be possible at all.
I agree, having witnesses there and dragging it out over a long timeframe seems entirely unnecessary. Most civilised countries that still have the death penalty do it quickly and in private
Two young men kidnapped a girl, raped and tortured her with all manner of electrical implements for three weeks as she begged for death, and finally killed her when they grew bored. Both men are alive and well and enjoying life in a federal penitentiary courtesy of the American tax payer.
No. No tears from me, no moral or religious dilemma. No tribal impulses. Those two men should be gone from this world. Where is the story from deBoer about their victim and her horrific suffering? About any of the victims of demons like them?
As a Briton, I remain undecided on the death penalty. There have been miscarriages of justice (Google Timothy Evans), and I don’t really believe it’s a deterrent. Conversely, my focus is on the victim and his or her family. The strongest argument in favour is that it *may* give some closure to the latter.
Having said that, when we executed people (with expert hangmen deploying the drop method) it was done within a few months of the crime. Frankly, this American business of waiting decades seems grotesque to us, and it surely torments victims’ families.
P.S. As for the scum you mention in your example, I quite take your point.
It doesn’t bring peace and closure to all victim’s families. Perhaps they should be asked what kind of punishment the killer should get.
Why does that matter? The murderer offends against all members of society, not just those related to the victim. The society that nurtures the the murderer offends against all future victims of murderers.
That’s rather abstract. It’s the loved ones who suffer and grieve. Society is an abstraction. What the eye doesn’t see the heart doesn’t grieve over. We’re unaware of most murders unless we happen to hear about them in the news.
It’s not and it never was a deterrent. Truly dreadful criminals are psychotic or sociopathic. They do what they do because they’re insane & they don’t think about consequences. To do it apparently ‘sanely’ via cold-blooded execution makes the executioner arguably even more ghoulish than the insane perpetrator.
In the twisted Liberal, postmodernist, atheist view of the writer all three are victims.
Hurrah for the bloodthirsty god-botherers! I guess the idea is that the criminals go to ‘hell’? So quaint!
Unless they repent, in which case all is forgiven
Barbaric
One word suffice
Nope.
Ever watched an abortion video?
You’ll never have to make that choice on either issue.
I’m a 35 year old woman, FYI.
Then you should know better. I’m an 82-year-old straight woman who lived when abortion was illegal and there was no birth control for women.
You didn’t say if you were straight or gay.
Why are you so keen to link the death penalty with abortion?
Why are you so anxious to blur the distinction between killing the innocent and killing the guilty?
Because I don’t class a foetus as a living person, at least until it’s developed enough to survive separated from the mother
Exactly! Judaism says life begins when the baby is born.
Babies are properly born when the desire to have them in the hearts of their parents is realized.
Or when the mum forgets to take her pill, as has been the case with my brats
Funny, bad luck!!
I think that’s what I said.
Worse, I was in a abortion clinic in Berkeley. They had a thing that looked like a garage vacuum cleaner that had a glass top so you could see the parts recovered.
But enough said about that.
What were you doing there if you weren’t having an abortion? And for the judgemental here, count yourself lucky you never had to have a back-street abortion.
I was there not aborting my son.
Nothing is more annoying than being told that executing a person is more expensive than a life sentence by the very segment of society (leftists) that tries to make it so!
No one ever questions those claims – we should. Recently, I read that California spends $162k/yr to incarcerate a prisoner. A 20 year old convicted of murder and sentenced to life would be expected to live another 40 plus years and cost CA at least $6.5M not including inflation.
Now consider an alternative scenario. At the end of a murder trial, the murderer is given a death sentence and an automatic SINGLE appeal to a court or grand jury whose only job is to determine beyond a reasonable doubt if the convict truly did the murder. No years spent trying to figure out if his mom was not kind to him, or if he was abused as a child, or if there weren’t enough OJ fans in the original jury. How long would it take that grand jury on average? A week? A month? Even if that process took 30 days it’s hard to reach a million dollars expense.
Most judges and lawyers I’ve met lean left. Our current process of handling a death case is one big circle jerk with many of the participants firmly opposing the one possible outcome best for society, and dragging the process out with novel and spurious legal claims.
For every opponent of capital punishment, there is a supporter. It’s odd how opponents have more sympathy for criminals than for their victims.
The idea of “humane execution” is tortured language as it is. The state is saying ‘we’re going to kill you because of your actions.’ The state didn’t cause someone to kill and the death penalty is seldom used as it is.
What moral colour can be added to a man who raped murdered 6 yong women and two 14 year old girls? How can a tough childhood, one also experienced by his siblings who didn’t become murderers, reduce his personal agency and allow him to view females as something for him use and dispose of?
Seems more of a screed than an essay. I would guess that the author’s foundational philosophy is some variation of post-modernism that rejects religion as a basis for law, in other words moral relativism. The non-sequitur is that you can’t traffic in relativism and deal in moral absolutes.
Also, if you posit that executing murderers retroactively, after they are convicted, is always unacceptable, then you must likewise concede that killing in self-defense proactively is also unacceptable. Why? Because both cases rely upon human perception. A jury may have an incorrect perception of the truth and assess guilt where there is none. And also a person perceiving mortal threat might be simply misreading a situation and, in using lethal force to defend themselves, kill an innocent person. Examples of that exist and society’s response is not to condemn the notion of a right to self-defense.
There are other aspects of capital punishment that can be dispassionately contemplated from a variety of perspectives but not with moral absolutists who believe themselves to be like Moses handing down unquestionable commandments.
“On death row, the facts are stark: 41% of inmates on it are black people, who make up less than 14% of America’s population.”
Well since black people commit 55% of all murders it seems like the system is treating them preferentially.
My wife, who is a genuinely kind soul, spent her career in the local court system. first as a probation officer, and then after obtaining her doctorate a therapist for troubled families. She is a firm believer in preserving the death penalty.
I disagree with her, primarily for four reasons:
When we permit our government to take the life of a citizen we set a precedent that we may not be able to control. Once we give, or acquiesce to, a power in the hands of our officials (elected, appointed or hired) history proves that power continues to expand and grow far, far beyond the original intent. How can we expect anything else with regard to capital punishment based upon recent experience?
There are already enough incidents of wrongful conviction to ensure there are many more as yet unadjudicated. How we can permit innocent people to be executed by our government, and just let God sort out the guilty from the blameless? It is simply wrong.
Justice in the form of execution as the penalty for willfully causing the death of another is not justice at all. It is simply revenge. It’s time we come to understand that the legal killing of someone for what he, or she, does is a slippery slope down which all manner of people may be sentenced for their crimes.
Finally, when we execute someone their transgressions are largely erased. We no longer have to think about them, or the fundamental reasons why they committed their crimes. We are disposing of the detritus surrounding the taking of a human life without doing more to understand why that tragedy took place. Someone serving a life term is a continuing reminder of our need to do more to figure out why murders happen, and–most importantly–what we might be able to do to prevent them.
No it protects those in the future at danger of being a murder victim.
We hear that many murderers are deeply disturbed people, there is a reasonable chance that the prospect of their own grizzly execution is an effective last minute deterrent in these disturbed or depraved minds.
The trebling of the murder rate in the UK following the abolition of hanging confirms my point.
It hasn’t trebled, it’s increased from 7 murders per 100k population to 10 per 100k population
Nonsense. Ten murders per 100k would be roughly double the US murder rate.
Apologies, missed a digit. It’s 10 per million, having risen from 7 per million. Either way it’s not a trebling as was claimed
I was using the 3x claim made in the top voted comment at the top of the comment section.
“No it protects those in the future at danger of being a murder victim.”
Ensuring those who commit murder are sentenced to life in prison without possibility of parole in lieu of execution I would submit that the incarceration accomplishes the same purpose as execution without the irrevocability of the latter.
Only for repeat murderers released from prison.
I am referring to others on the verge of committing their first murder. My claim is that their unbalanced minds might be able to process the imagery of judicial execution by hanging, causing them to hesitate at the last moment.
“My claim is that their unbalanced minds might be able to process the imagery of judicial execution by hanging, causing them to hesitate at the last moment.”
And having a first hand view of the justice system over thirty years by virtue of my spouse–and the criminals who went through it with whom she had to deal–I respectfully suggest that the truth is otherwise.
Virginia abolished the death penalty in 2021, and there has been no statistically significant increase in the non-negligent homicide rate thereafter (570 vs 550), especially when one considers the overall rise in crime of all kinds nationwide in the wake of the George Floyd/BLM madness.
Well said. Thank you for that well-thought-out comment.
Setting aside the moral/ethical discussion of capital punishment, my suspicion is that many who stridently speak out against it are engaged in a kind of performative moralizing akin to virtue signaling. Today, if you want to convince yourself of your own moral worth, you may conduct a shabby life of inherent self-interest, arrogance, lack of respect for your fellow humans in your real-life personal interactions, cheating, stealing, laziness, faithlessness, and hedonism; but, by staking out the “high ground” on some issue that will likely neither personally require any alteration of your life or personal sacrifice nor directly affect you, you are enshrined into the great Valhalla of social justice warriors.
I’m a DeBeor and a Free Press subscriber along with Unherd and other heterodox platforms. I appreciate DeBeor’s fairly consistent efforts at objectivity, despite being a socialist (which is another topic for another day). I’m also from Texas and had a 42 year career as a civil trial lawyer who was fortunate enough to study criminal law and procedure in law school under one of the finest teaching professors of whom I am aware.
The *morality* of the death penalty is entirely subjective, particularly in a society that allows unfettered access to abortion and limited access to euthanasia. DeBeor states specifically “intentionally taking human life is wrong in all circumstances.” He makes this statement but does not believe it. He is fine with abortion and, I suspect, at least agnostic on euthanasia. Rather, he believes that the state may not, as a matter of criminal punishment, take the life of a human being, because–he believes–it is wrong to do so.
To me, this seems entirely arbitrary. The correct view–which appears throughout this thread–is that, for truly capital crimes and when the evidence is, for all practical purposes certain or conclusive, then capital punishment is not only moral but justified.
Death penalty opponents often argue that it is not a deterrent. This is obviously true for those who commit pre-meditated murder, but what cannot be known are the countless armed robberies, forcible rapes and other heinous crimes that do not end in murder because of some lingering awareness of possibly being killed in turn if a life is taken. If you think this is a reach, fine, but just look at some of our cities where the deterrent of arrest and conviction for property crimes has been eliminated by Soros-backed DA’s and tell me deterrence does not work. The absence of crime is some evidence of deterrence *for some people*.
For death penalty non-absolutists like me, the devil is in the details. Most of us want certainty, not just a jury’s sense guilt or innocence after hearing the heinous facts of a crime and an emotional appeal to protect their community, particularly in a state where appellate review is far less robust than it should be (yes, that would be the great state of Texas). Unfortunately, a sizeable number of the people who show up for jury service assume the state would not prosecute an innocent person. These people are gullible and easily manipulated into finding guilt. So, putting unfettered faith in the jury system is a surefire recipe for systemic and intolerable miscarriages of justice.
Even worse, the case of Todd Willingham in Texas is proof positive that the state is fully capable of prosecuting a legally innocent person and covering up the evidence of that person’s innocence to avoid profound political fallout. Willingham was accused of setting a fire in order to simultaneously kill and cover up the killing. There are objective, scientifically derived criteria, methodologies and processes for determining the cause and origin of a fire, all of which are codified in NFPA 921, which is applicable in both civil and criminal matters. Not only was Willingham not convicted under the 921 standard, but the evidence was subsequently reviewed by 921-certified experts whose findings were suppressed by our beloved governor. In fact, Willingham was convicted by a person with the title of Fire Marshall who, more realistically, would be described as a shaman/witch doctor.
As a brief aside on the Willingham matter, not long after the independent experts’ findings were suppressed, I retained a 921-qualified expert in a civil matter in which cause and origin of a fire was a central issue. The expert–whose name I do not recall–was widely believed to have been on that panel and was widely perceived to be in stark disagreement with the Governor but also unwilling for unknown reasons to go public. I suspect there were NDA’s at the outset and fairly brutal warnings once their report was issued. The smell of rank political corruption remains fresh.
As a further aside, Willingham was not exonerated, but what was almost certainly true was that the state could not prove its case. A person may be guilty as hell, but if the evidence isn’t there, that person remains free. This is the distinction between being “legally innocent” and “innocent in fact.” Willingham was legally innocent and that is enough to preclude a conviction, much less incarceration or any other punishment. All of this is fundamental Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence.
Another feature of the Texas capital punishment regime is that the state is required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant, if not executed, is likely to kill or otherwise behave heinously again (I’m not sure what the actual standard is, so this is a bit of a paraphrase). This seemingly reasonable element of proof is actually a joke. There was (and for all I know still is) a psychiatrist named James P. Grigson a/k/a Dr. Death, who routinely testified(ies) that convicted defendants will absolutely commit future acts of violence. His testimony is considered “legally sufficient” evidence of future violent propensity and death sentences challenged on this element are routinely affirmed by our appellate courts. To an outsider with some grasp of courtroom dynamics, this has all of the indicia of a system that is routinely gamed.
The really distressing thing is, quite simply, that there is a solution. Probably more than one. One solution would be along these lines, at least in broad outline: the jury trial is Phase I. One year (or two, or whatever but while the evidence and memories remain reasonably fresh) after the guilty verdict, with the intervening time being spent double-checking the evidence at trial and any evidence that was not found or used at the time of trial or that might have been erroneously excluded, Phase II would begin. During Phase II, all of the evidence, admitted and not admitted would then be reviewed by a panel of legal experts and citizens vetted for their intellectual integrity and objectivity, i.e. lack of an agenda to verify that guilt is, in fact, as close to certain as reasonably possible. This would be a new standard of review applicable to death sentences only. Thereafter, in Phase III there would be parallel reviews by the established appellate courts and an independent body of lawyers and former judges. If the two do not agree on the efficacy of the trial process, in Phase IV, the onus would shift to the established reviewing court to explain why the panel’s findings should not prevail. Phase V would be a final review and evaluation of the Appellate Court’s final decision by a court specifically designed to review capital cases whose members would rotate and whose qualifications would be focused on intellectual independence and demonstrated knowledge of the law. If, after Phases I-V, the sentence is affirmed, it would be carried out forthwith. While cumbersome, it is far less unwieldy and uncertain than our present hodgepodge system of direct appeal, habeas corpus and collateral appeals that makes the process seem endless.
Anyone who reads this all the way through has too much time on their hands.
“then capital punishment is not only moral but justified”
No, it is merely consistent with his other beliefs. Clearly those who don’t believe in the moral of people not killing people will also be against abortions and etc.
Funny last sentence which is the only one I read.
And you lost me at MAGA lunatic. Great article until you do the very thing you’re writing against, which is to paint something with so wide of a brush that that all sensibility is lost.
Followed by “too online liberal” Try reading things in the context they’re written rather than copying the woke and claiming offence where none was intended.
The woke and online anti woke, two sides of the same pathetic coin!
Excellent piece.
Very small thing: last _rites_.
It’s about revenge, not justice, and deeper than that, it’s about a mass collusion to avoid responsibility for not doing the very hard work of addressing conditions that lead to crime. And, corollary to that, addressing abuse of power on a political level. Heaven forbid we should admit to that deal we’ve made with the proverbial devil. Or maybe the actual Devil. Sure, every now and then, a very bad egg is born and needs to be neutralized. Of course. We are predators, so there is a continuum, genetically. But by and large, ‘bad people’ are products of varying degrees of neglect and abuse, whether it be on a family or systemic level. But oh, it’s so much easier to satisfy our collective bloodlust with a bit of so-called justice and imagine we are balancing the equation instead or tipping it seriously out of whack. We need to take a long hard look at our entire system, but that won’t happen.
Something like 25 percent of murderers are supposedly psychopaths, the figure increases for more heinous murders involving torture etc. Psychopaths, at about 2 percent of the general pop., are thought to be unreformable. What ‘hard work’ would you suggest doing in these cases? My wider point being that evil will always exist despite the best of intentions and hardest of work (though I agree that certain social conditions promote/suppress it – eg stable families and communities which encourage resonsible male role models).
The fact that there have been innocents executed certainly gives me qualms about the death penalty but my real reason for opposing it is that it involves some organ of the Stare having the right to kill, or sanction the killing of, its citizens. It is the same reason I oppose euthanasia. It has to be regulated by a State authority and the State should just not have that power – not least because it is likely at some point to be misapplied, abused or corrupted.
In thirty years, the lefty arguments have not evolved. Same partial information, same emotional manipulation, same prioritization of criminals over their victims, same dead end non-solutions.
And of course the obligatory European dumping manure on America is the cherry on top. 🙁
“Who sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God did He make man.”
If the taker of blood is let go, thereby is the taking of blood cheapened, and murderers multiply in number. So it is, so it has ever been.
Does that apply to soldiers, or the executioner?
Greetings from one of your American subscribers. We’re human and will make mistakes. Innocent people will be convicted and guilty set free by jury trials.
I am for re-thinking punishment. Incarcerating someone is expensive in certain states, about $106,000 per year an inmate in California, about $25,000 in Florida, about $115,000 in New York, about $30,000 in Kansas.
Someone convicted of murder who serves 20 years in prison, would cost over $2.1 million, before inflation. And that amount does not include the legal costs of prosecution and appeals. Could our money be better spent? Should we force convicted to work while incarcerated?
I assume that many murders a painful to the victim, the fear of the attack, the actual contact and then the time to die. Why do we worry about the pain that the guilty feel in the execution? We could put the convicted under anesthesia and then shoot them.
Forcing the convicted to work for free would put many companies out of business as they’d be undercut by free labour from the prisons. The resulting increase in welfare and decreased tax take means it wouldn’t be cost effecting in the long run. This was a major argument against slavery
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I applaud much of your writing, and I agree with your general thesis here. However, I must object to the following disingenuous argument:
You might as well deplore the (presumed) fact that the great majority of inmates on death row are males, who make up only about half of the population. Please give us the percentage of people accused of capital crimes who are black, not the percentage of the general population.
If accusations of capital crime are heavily skewed by racial prejudice, we need to learn about that as well. If the rate of actual commission of capital crimes is higher in the black population, we need to ponder the possible causes. But those are separate questions that require more thoughtful answers than a grossly faulty comparison.
Exactly. This specious argument alone shows that Freddie isn’t taking a serious position weighing up pros and cons, he’s just expressing the yucky feelings he has about the death penalty.
I´m inclined to believe that opposition to the death penalty is yet another “luxury belief” of our beloved progressive ruling class.
In the old days the ruling class differentiated itself with its silk breeches — culottes — and silk stockings which the ordinary people — the sans-culottes — could not afford. But then came the French Revolution.
As an “average MAGA lunatic” from the great state of Kansas, I would prefer to see chain gangs assisting with our infrastructure. Sledgehammers are cheaper than court appeals.
Anyone discharging or even threatening with a weapon in a public place or dwelling can be summarily executed by a police sniper. RAF Typhoons and Reaper drones have been executing ISIS in Toyota pick ups for some time. I’m not at all sure those in the crosshairs of Houthi sites are all guilty. Similarly, security services carry guns, use them and if they are held accountable by public juries it’s not often reported. Strange dual standards.
Judging by the murder stats in USA, where it was said 15 serial killers are at large at any one time, it would seem capital punishment is not much of a deterrent, just vengeance. For me, keeping a person on Death Row for 30 years, lining the pockets of lawyers, is the real cruelty. They can repent a thousand times, mostly to no end, but it’s the firing squad or equivalent who will carry their deed to the grave.
A killer given a whole life sentence should at least be provided with a stool, rope and a hook in the ceiling of their cell.
A rather unbalanced essay which merely expresses the writer’s prejudices and adds very little to the debate .
I lean towards bringing back capital punishment in the UK as murders are now an everyday occurrence possibly due to the influx of immigrants from societies where life is expendable. The mealy mouthed sentence of life imprisonment generally results in murderers being freed back into the community. If life meant life it might well alter my view.
“The average MAGA lunatic”. Stopped reading after that.
I can hardly speak as the disgust courses through me at the description of this killing. We don’t even treat animals this way. What is wrong with these Americans?
I disagree with capital punishment but l’d like to reinforce Nell Clover’s attempt to explain ‘nitrogen asphyxia’. As she describes, a sense of suffocation arises from a gradual build up of carbon dioxide in the respired gas and blood stream, which does not occur when we breathe an inert gas such as nitrogen. The same mode of death occurs when farmers jump into slurry tanks to save dogs or colleagues where a deep layer of methane (also an inert gas in this context) sits above the slurry. Most of these brave souls probably plan to haul themselves out during the rescue if they start to feel breathless. The problem is, they don’t feel anything, they are unconscious within a minute or so. Yet another example is explosive decompression at altitude in an aircraft. At 30,000 feet the atmospheric pressure is so low that any gas exists in very low concentrations. Historically, aircrew, particularly military aircrew, were given experience of hypoxia in a decompression chamber. There they learned their individual symptoms of hypoxia – usually drowsiness, muddled thinking, and often euphoria, so that they might recognise the need to go onto face mask oxygen following covert failure of the aircraft’s oxygen supply system.
Has any of the countries that supports euthanasia (Canada, Switzerland, et. Al.) tried nitrogen? There is a lot of suspicion that Smith’s mambo chicken dance was an act.
I can see where this writer is at with his view of judicial murder: it will always be problematic as no judicial system can be perfect. However special attention is needed where judical systems are quite clearly fake – Russia, USA and UK are examples where the legal system exists to protect high level criminals but also to criminalise states of being and conscience that are quite clearly not in themselves criminal – eg skin colour, belief in Islam (or Christianity), choosing intoxicants the government outlaws or even refusing to pay for the idiots’ lantern (AKA television). Against this there are large %s of the same countries population who indulge in criminal behaviour that, of itself, could result in a violent death, eg: Bulk narco trading, joining the police or other gang committed to using violence to achieve its ends, supporting Hamas, ISIS or similar ethno-theocratic-socialist outfits or supporting lethal violence by proxy (BBC, Labour Party, fringe right wing Tories etc). So if any of the latter group suddenly find the glasses on their coffin are permanently tint, then surely that’s the price of playing that game? A de-facto death penalty if you will.
Now, I agree, I don’t think government should be killing people. Not just because government is incompetent and biased (like all humanity) but because we don’t deserve to be like the ones who have done the crime that got them on death row.
However you miss the point. Society seeing the rule of law being enforced saves more people then incarcerating’s people for life. Or so the states who still enforce capital punishment believe.
Which is the power of the US system. Different states can choose different laws and people will choose states where they feel they want to live.
So tell me again why people are moving to Texas?
(you missed this stat)
Thou Shall Not Kill