All those considered by others to be woke and all those who are critics of woke can probably agree that what we are witnessing is an attempt to consign to the dustbin old ideas, old culture, old customs, and old habits. And those willing these changes no doubt agree that to rebel is justified. Is any of that just written debated? I think not.
Of course history is the story of old ideas, old culture, old customs, and old habits declining into insignificance as the generations pass away. Rarely though are society-wide attempts made to purge living people simultaneously of their current ideas, current culture, current customs, and current habits. So rare are these occurrences that they burn brightly in the history books; these events progress far beyond mere rebellion and are recorded as revolutions.
The main reason for such prominence in history is that purging living people of their old ideas, old culture, old customs, and old habits is always and everywhere a bloody affair. The rebellion can never be complete until the soul of everyone is purified, and checked to be pure. And building windows into men’s souls requires the butchering of their bodies.
Looking at our own times, ostracising the old and the white dinosaurs won’t be enough for many. The old and the white dinosaurs will still have each other, their children, and their old ideas, old culture, old customs, and old habits. The question is, do the rebels have enough influence to turn our tomorrow into a revolution and us dinosaurs and our children into another pile of bones marking the way of the long march towards utopia?
NB: For those who don’t know the reference, in 1966 Chairman Mao announced that to rebel was justified and so began the attempt to consign the four olds to the bin. A decade later and at least 2 million had been murdered, 10 million forced from their homes, and 30 million made social pariahs because of their old ideas, old culture, old customs, and old habits. A posterised rainbow image of Mao is pinned to the government department kitchen wall I will be visiting today. I am told it is my “exclusionary ideas” that are the real problem when I complain about a mass murderer being iconised.
I was going to say something about a society that purged its set of “olds,” and then saw your reference to Mao. People may want to be careful what they wish for.
The four ‘olds’have been replaced with ‘white’ ‘male’ ‘straight’ and ‘cis’. We even have struggle sessions, except this time corporations do it too.
Allison Barrows
3 months ago
My husband and I have been working within publishing for our entire careers. About halfway or so in, the very best art directors and editors left or retired and young women filled those spaces.
They would demand silly, nonsensical changes to book cover illustrations merely to appear to be doing something. They didn’t read the manuscripts to determine what the artist should illustrate but instead sent the entire unedited version to the artist to do their job for them. The editors seemed completely unfamiliar with the material they were responsible for editing.
The great American novelists often had genius editors without whom the novels would never have been published. They were very cranky men, and some of them may have even been considered old. They’re mostly gone now, and quality went with them.
In response to your comments, I cite Max Perkins, without whom the world may have been deprived of the works of Ernest Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald amongst others. Whether Mr Perkins was a grumpy old man, I know not, but he was certainly a man whose support and encouragement of these authors was invaluable.
Perkins was precisely who I had in mind, FL. And several others went off to Hollywood to “punch up” subpar scripts and turn B movies into spun gold.
Even the artist who created the charming children’s book, “Stellaluna”, acknowledges that she didn’t have a story, just an idea and pretty illustration. Her unsung editor essentially wrote the story.
Quick thing: My agent arranged a meeting with Big Publishing House to discuss turning my syndicated comic strip into a book series. The two girls playing at being editor and art director hadn’t read any of the strips – in syndication for about nine years at that time – before they started suggesting massive changes to the two main characters. Whilst my (female) agent kept saying things like “We can do that”, I scowled through the entire ordeal and ended it with an emphatic NO.
Fired the agent.
Jerry Carroll
3 months ago
Pared to its essentials, “pale and stale” is anti-white racism as well as anti-meritocracy with the goal of dumbing down as well as transforming makers of Western culture into footstools for emotional women and People of Colour.
You lost me at “Women and People of Colour” as if such trivial distinctions of melanin levels and dangley bits means anything at all…
J Bryant
3 months ago
“To get him booted from the Bouchercon stage would signal a shift in the power dynamic.”
Probably true, which is why a follow-up article would be interesting. Is Penzler ultimately cancelled from Bouchercon or not? Is his cancellation met with the usual shrug from the silent majority, or is there pushback to cancellation of such a significant figure in this particular teacup?
There’s a growing number of articles/podcast episodes claiming peak woke has arrived, and perhaps has been passed. I can’t figure out if they’re reporting a real trend or just wishful thinking.
Wishful thinking, its basic worldview is absolutely entrenched. There is now a resistance movement, which people who read Unherd will be picking up from various places, but for most, DEI, unconscious bias training etc., are just unremarkable parts of their day.
Christopher Chantrill
3 months ago
“The next American president, after all, will be a cantankerous old man.”
Correction. The current American president is a cantankerous old man.
The current president may also be the next president.
Richard Craven
3 months ago
I distinctly remember watching the moon landings as a kid, and have so far kept the promise I made to myself two or three years ago only to read novels by White men (although I’m quite tempted to read Percival Everett and some more Edith Wharton).
Richard Calhoun
3 months ago
‘Grumpy’ is not important, either in men or women … but what is important, is they/we always open our minds and understand it’s the young people that are running things.
We were all young once!
Penzler has a reputation for being less than reverent about the sacred cows of his more progressive peers.
Clearly, we can’t have that. The cult of groupthink is always on the lookout for heretics who dare question any aspect of the dogma, whether that criticism is warranted, constructive, or crazy.
Congrats. Have fun, I did as fly on wall with international publisher ‘80s-90s
Ha! Maybe we shouldn’t be?
Jonathan Miller 1971 Caveat Show @8.30min and JM @9.50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEPtyb9OHP8
Peter Samson
3 months ago
I did watch the moon landing on tv and still have a copy of the New York Times from the day after. I have to disagree, however, about James Watt and his obituary. The insults referred to were not some random comments over the years, they were made while he was Ronald Reagan’s Secretary of the Interior and got him fired (forced to resign). He said of a panel reviewing coal-leasing policies that it had “every kind of mixture—I have a Black. I have a woman, two Jews and a cripple.” The comment and his resignation made him famous/infamous from that time on. Otherwise he would hardly have received a Times obituary at all.
Mark epperson
3 months ago
An interesting point. We, the human race, used to have “Characters” and now all we have are boring “arseholes” with no personality, leadership skills, or real intellect. We need a hell of a lot more Characters, no matter what the age!
Stephen Doiron
2 months ago
So sad to count the number of hackles scrunched atop your neck. But then I realized, that’s most of what’s on offer from your set. We certainly welcome your getting out there and having a go at it, much as we have these past five decades. Oh, but then -again, so sorry to report- you too will be considered “old” and worthless, by that – as yet not even coined – younger crowd. Have no doubt, they’ll be there, just waiting for a chance to get even for all those cookies they’ve been denied.
In the meantime, please know that neither Mr. Biden nor Mr. Trump run anything. They’re chosen by the fiat politicos to blare out some distracting noise while they scramble about the abattoir’s stockyard, picking out the best for themselves. Their noise is but a distraction to what’s really going on…but then, you’re too young to have realized that fact – yet.
I leave you a note emboldened by a task still strange to you: Experience. The elders are never in place to mark success. First, there’s too little of that stuff to go around in any age. Second, learning of failures might just help you avoid one yourself; a greater value than any success. But, have heart, dear Kat, we’re all about to exit the coop, and leave it to you. That way the mud-slingers will have a fresh target for the childhood game.
This author is a dope.
Thank you for your trenchant analysis.
All those considered by others to be woke and all those who are critics of woke can probably agree that what we are witnessing is an attempt to consign to the dustbin old ideas, old culture, old customs, and old habits. And those willing these changes no doubt agree that to rebel is justified. Is any of that just written debated? I think not.
Of course history is the story of old ideas, old culture, old customs, and old habits declining into insignificance as the generations pass away. Rarely though are society-wide attempts made to purge living people simultaneously of their current ideas, current culture, current customs, and current habits. So rare are these occurrences that they burn brightly in the history books; these events progress far beyond mere rebellion and are recorded as revolutions.
The main reason for such prominence in history is that purging living people of their old ideas, old culture, old customs, and old habits is always and everywhere a bloody affair. The rebellion can never be complete until the soul of everyone is purified, and checked to be pure. And building windows into men’s souls requires the butchering of their bodies.
Looking at our own times, ostracising the old and the white dinosaurs won’t be enough for many. The old and the white dinosaurs will still have each other, their children, and their old ideas, old culture, old customs, and old habits. The question is, do the rebels have enough influence to turn our tomorrow into a revolution and us dinosaurs and our children into another pile of bones marking the way of the long march towards utopia?
NB: For those who don’t know the reference, in 1966 Chairman Mao announced that to rebel was justified and so began the attempt to consign the four olds to the bin. A decade later and at least 2 million had been murdered, 10 million forced from their homes, and 30 million made social pariahs because of their old ideas, old culture, old customs, and old habits. A posterised rainbow image of Mao is pinned to the government department kitchen wall I will be visiting today. I am told it is my “exclusionary ideas” that are the real problem when I complain about a mass murderer being iconised.
I was going to say something about a society that purged its set of “olds,” and then saw your reference to Mao. People may want to be careful what they wish for.
You are asking people to think and know a bit of history apart from racial grievance. Ain’t gonna happen.
“People” what people? Please speak for yourself.
The four ‘olds’have been replaced with ‘white’ ‘male’ ‘straight’ and ‘cis’. We even have struggle sessions, except this time corporations do it too.
My husband and I have been working within publishing for our entire careers. About halfway or so in, the very best art directors and editors left or retired and young women filled those spaces.
They would demand silly, nonsensical changes to book cover illustrations merely to appear to be doing something. They didn’t read the manuscripts to determine what the artist should illustrate but instead sent the entire unedited version to the artist to do their job for them. The editors seemed completely unfamiliar with the material they were responsible for editing.
The great American novelists often had genius editors without whom the novels would never have been published. They were very cranky men, and some of them may have even been considered old. They’re mostly gone now, and quality went with them.
In response to your comments, I cite Max Perkins, without whom the world may have been deprived of the works of Ernest Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald amongst others. Whether Mr Perkins was a grumpy old man, I know not, but he was certainly a man whose support and encouragement of these authors was invaluable.
Perkins was precisely who I had in mind, FL. And several others went off to Hollywood to “punch up” subpar scripts and turn B movies into spun gold.
Even the artist who created the charming children’s book, “Stellaluna”, acknowledges that she didn’t have a story, just an idea and pretty illustration. Her unsung editor essentially wrote the story.
Quick thing: My agent arranged a meeting with Big Publishing House to discuss turning my syndicated comic strip into a book series. The two girls playing at being editor and art director hadn’t read any of the strips – in syndication for about nine years at that time – before they started suggesting massive changes to the two main characters. Whilst my (female) agent kept saying things like “We can do that”, I scowled through the entire ordeal and ended it with an emphatic NO.
Fired the agent.
Pared to its essentials, “pale and stale” is anti-white racism as well as anti-meritocracy with the goal of dumbing down as well as transforming makers of Western culture into footstools for emotional women and People of Colour.
You lost me at “Women and People of Colour” as if such trivial distinctions of melanin levels and dangley bits means anything at all…
“To get him booted from the Bouchercon stage would signal a shift in the power dynamic.”
Probably true, which is why a follow-up article would be interesting. Is Penzler ultimately cancelled from Bouchercon or not? Is his cancellation met with the usual shrug from the silent majority, or is there pushback to cancellation of such a significant figure in this particular teacup?
There’s a growing number of articles/podcast episodes claiming peak woke has arrived, and perhaps has been passed. I can’t figure out if they’re reporting a real trend or just wishful thinking.
Wishful thinking, its basic worldview is absolutely entrenched. There is now a resistance movement, which people who read Unherd will be picking up from various places, but for most, DEI, unconscious bias training etc., are just unremarkable parts of their day.
“The next American president, after all, will be a cantankerous old man.”
Correction. The current American president is a cantankerous old man.
She means either main candidate, but i think you know that, so not sure what your point is.
The current president may also be the next president.
I distinctly remember watching the moon landings as a kid, and have so far kept the promise I made to myself two or three years ago only to read novels by White men (although I’m quite tempted to read Percival Everett and some more Edith Wharton).
‘Grumpy’ is not important, either in men or women … but what is important, is they/we always open our minds and understand it’s the young people that are running things.
We were all young once!
The young running things, how’s that working out?
Penzler has a reputation for being less than reverent about the sacred cows of his more progressive peers.
Clearly, we can’t have that. The cult of groupthink is always on the lookout for heretics who dare question any aspect of the dogma, whether that criticism is warranted, constructive, or crazy.
I am available and plenty grumpy.
Congrats. Have fun, I did as fly on wall with international publisher ‘80s-90s
Ha! Maybe we shouldn’t be?
Jonathan Miller 1971 Caveat Show @8.30min and JM @9.50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEPtyb9OHP8
I did watch the moon landing on tv and still have a copy of the New York Times from the day after. I have to disagree, however, about James Watt and his obituary. The insults referred to were not some random comments over the years, they were made while he was Ronald Reagan’s Secretary of the Interior and got him fired (forced to resign). He said of a panel reviewing coal-leasing policies that it had “every kind of mixture—I have a Black. I have a woman, two Jews and a cripple.” The comment and his resignation made him famous/infamous from that time on. Otherwise he would hardly have received a Times obituary at all.
An interesting point. We, the human race, used to have “Characters” and now all we have are boring “arseholes” with no personality, leadership skills, or real intellect. We need a hell of a lot more Characters, no matter what the age!
So sad to count the number of hackles scrunched atop your neck. But then I realized, that’s most of what’s on offer from your set. We certainly welcome your getting out there and having a go at it, much as we have these past five decades. Oh, but then -again, so sorry to report- you too will be considered “old” and worthless, by that – as yet not even coined – younger crowd. Have no doubt, they’ll be there, just waiting for a chance to get even for all those cookies they’ve been denied.
In the meantime, please know that neither Mr. Biden nor Mr. Trump run anything. They’re chosen by the fiat politicos to blare out some distracting noise while they scramble about the abattoir’s stockyard, picking out the best for themselves. Their noise is but a distraction to what’s really going on…but then, you’re too young to have realized that fact – yet.
I leave you a note emboldened by a task still strange to you: Experience. The elders are never in place to mark success. First, there’s too little of that stuff to go around in any age. Second, learning of failures might just help you avoid one yourself; a greater value than any success. But, have heart, dear Kat, we’re all about to exit the coop, and leave it to you. That way the mud-slingers will have a fresh target for the childhood game.