*
In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, cyclical theories of history, like occultism, were all the rage. RenĂ© GuĂ©non, Arnold Toynbee, Oswald Spengler: the bookshelves were groaning with them. It was obvious enough, in the shadow of the Great War, that something was ending, and the most perceptive observers could see, in the rise of occultism and sexual libertinism, technological warfare and globalised capitalism, Marxism and fascism, what it was: the values and the heritage of the old Christian West. Religion as a way of seeing had been supplanted by a can-do materialism, which sought to transform reality through ideology, technology and science. God, as Nietzscheâs madman had yelled before Nietzsche himself did, was dead. The modern West had killed him.
Oswald Spengler, on the other hand, was not so sure. Like Yeats, the German poet-historian saw history as a series of cycles. His mega-study, The Decline of the West, which became an unexpected bestseller across Europe in the aftermath of World War One, detailed the rise and fall of various global cultures, the latest of which â ours â he called âFaustian cultureâ. Faustian because it had made a deal with the devil, which was now, according to Spengler, about to come due. The West had triumphed in the goal it had set itself: corralling matter through science and technology. We had become masters of the material realm and had conquered much of the world, but like Faust we had sold our soul for it. âWe are the hollow men,â intoned T. S. Eliot, a traditionalist disguised as a modernist. âWe are the stuffed men.â He had it right. You can be both at once.
By the time Spengler was writing, he was already clear that all of the theoretical edifices constructed by the West to replace its old sacred order â which mainly manifested as political ideologies â had failed. Beginning in the 21st century, he predicted, the grandchildren of the revolutionaries and the rationalists, adrift in a failing materialist culture, would begin to seek succour in another place entirely:
âThe age of theory is drawing to its end. The great systems of Liberalism and Socialism all arose between about 1750 and 1850 … Belief in programme was the mark and the glory of our grandfathers â in our grandsons it will be proof of provincialism. In its place is developing even now the seed of a new resigned piety, sprung from tortured conscience and spiritual hunger, whose task will be to found a new hither-side that looks for secrets instead of steel-bright concepts.â
The Westâs gyre was ending, said Spengler. Exhaustion and decline would follow, but the failure of both technology and ideology would prompt a turn back towards the spiritual. âBefore us,â he declared, âthere stands a last spiritual crisis that will involve all Europe and America.â Beginning in the 21st century, this would manifest as what he called a âsecond religiousnessâ. The Faustian West would experience a religious resurgence. Spengler predicted that it would begin around now.
What if a human being is not primarily a rational, bestial or sexual animal but in fact a religious one? By âreligiousâ I mean inclined to worship; attuned to the great mystery of being; convinced that material reality is only a visible shard of the whole; able across all times and cultures and places to experience or intuit some creative, magisterial power beyond our own small selves. There is, after all, no current or historic culture on Earth that is not built around God, or the gods. None, that is, apart from ours.
If this is true, then it would make sense that the collapse of the false picture painted by the age of âscience and reasonâ â mind-body dualism, religion as evidence of superstition or stupidity, the ability of ideology or technology to create paradise on Earth â would bring about a return to the mean. And if the mean is what we might call a religious sensibility, then a resurgence of religion itself would be very much on the cards.
I think there is a good chance that, beneath all of the surface culture war battles, below the arguments about free speech and democracy, coursing below all of these necessary and inevitable cultural strains and tensions, this is already happening. It could be that Spenglerâs second religiousness is already here.
*
If this is so, what shape will it take? Many different shapes, probably, and all at once, with the first being an old and a familiar one. In recent years, more and more people have begun to notice that, as the tide of Christian culture has receded in the West, the place seems in some way to be re-paganising, and that as it does so it is offering up a new set of sacred values. What might those values be? We could start with nature worship, self-worship, and a sacrificial attitude to disposable human lives. Then we could combine these with the increasingly obvious religious vision of the Silicon Valley crowd, with their AI Gods and pursuit of silicon transcendence. Add it all up and we can make out the dim shape of the second religiousness in what passes for the cultural mainstream: self-creation in a Godless, genderless, borderless, natureless world of all-seeing living machines. Welcome to the silicon paganism of the 21st century.
In response, we are now beginning to see a resurgence in genuine religion. Personally, and anecdotally, I am noticing this everywhere. In American Orthodox churches bursting with young families. In atheists or neo-pagans suddenly becoming Christians (I plead guilty). In my own speaking events about Christianity, which are suddenly inexplicably popular, and not because of me. Others I know report the same thing: for the first time in a long while, people are beginning to take faith seriously again. Actual religion â the thing that was supposed to die a slow death at the hands of reason â is emerging slowly from the shadows as the new paganism takes hold.
But as Spengler himself warned, there is no guarantee that a “second religiousness” will be an entirely benevolent thing. Knowing what we do of human history, in fact, we can pretty much guarantee that it wonât. There have always been two kinds of religion, or perhaps two ways of responding to religious teachings. There is the internal or mystical response, and then there is the worldly or political one. In Christian terminology, we might call these the way of the world and the way of the kingdom. Christ taught that the path home to God â which is the path to the true self â is a narrow one, and that few ever find it. He also explained that God was to be found not in the clouds or in the stars, but in every human heart. The Christian Way, as its first followers referred to it, is in other words a path of internal transformation â what the Orthodox call the âunseen warfareâ that goes on in the heart every minute. The battle between the way of God and the way of the world: every religion I know of teaches some version of this.
Being human, though, we like to take these teachings and overlay them onto the world. In Christian history, this has often taken the form of crusading â sometimes literally â to transform the kingdom of Man into the kingdom of God by force. Unfortunately, since the people doing the crusading have not first fought their own unseen war to transform themselves, they end up falling into a neat little trap set by the devil, and transforming the Church into an instrument of repression, or simply a vehicle for worldly political activism. This can apply equally to liberal Christians who want to remake the Church in the rainbow flag-bedecked image of the âsocial justiceâ Left, and to conservative Christians who want Jesus to lead their battle to defend âfaith, flag and familyâ against the woke libs.
Currently, this trend is manifesting most obviously in the form of a âcultural Christianityâ promoted by anti-woke public figures on the Right. In this reading, the Christian Way is a weapon which can, in the words of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, writing here as a recent convert, âfortify us against our menacing foesâ. Ironically, this spiritual-warfare-as-civilisational-warfare attitude is most obvious at present in the rise of the violent Islamism which so frightens Hirsi Ali, and with good reason. The nervousness with which Europeans have been shopping in their Christmas markets this month is testament to the reality of the violence which some people think God will help them justify. The warning should be clear.
If all of this is part of the second religiousness, it wonât work: or at least, it wonât take us any closer to God. Religion, despite the many calcified failures of its history, is not at root a weapon in anybodyâs culture war. Religion and culture reign in separate domains. A faith wielded as a stick with which to beat the âcultural Marxistsâ will end up being as empty as the consumer void it seeks to challenge, and potentially as toxic. C. S. Lewis had already spotted the trap more than 60 years ago: “Religions devised for a social purpose, like Roman emperor-worship or modern attempts to âsell Christianity as a means of saving civilisationâ, do not come to much. The little knots of Friends who turn their backs on the âWorldâ are those who really transform it.”
What Lewis is describing is Christâs narrow way: the path of the Desert Fathers rather than that of Emperor Constantine. The divine irony is that it is only by walking away from the world that we have any chance of changing it. The future, though, like the past, will probably offer up both paths. We should expect a second religiousness to lead to new Desert Father-like movements, away from the world and into the wilderness, and at the same time give us more openly religious conflict in the public sphere. The two have always been related. The original Desert Fathers, back in the 4th century, fled to become hermits in the sands of Egypt in part to escape the newly civilised version of the Christian faith, which had recently become the official religion of the Roman Empire. Christianity and Empire have never mixed well. When God came to Earth, after all, He turned up as a barefoot carpenter, not a proconsul, and he had nothing at all to say about politics, despite living at a time of deep political ferment in an occupied nation. He had bigger fish to fry. I think we should assume He knew what he was doing.
*
Western culture seems in many ways to be visibly collapsing before our eyes. Our nations, our family structures, our communities, our assumptions, our ecosystems: everything is under strain, under attack or bursting at the seams. What is the cause? Is it mass immigration? Is it post-modern relativism? Is it the woke Left? Is it the far-Right? And what is the solution? Is it a robust defence of âenlightenment valuesâ? Is it writing free speech into law? Is it border control? Is it even more YouTube videos?
I think that all of this is just a form of temporary displacement activity. I think the real story is that our religious sensibility is slowly revealing itself to us again, emerging blinking into the light; our instincts are trying to return to their source. On some level we perhaps know this, but we are holding it off as long as possible, because to turn around and look into the light would be to accept that our whole culture has been trailing down a dead-end road since the Enlightenment. We canât look at that fact, so we look at absolutely everything else instead. But the confrontation canât be put off forever.
The biggest lie my culture told me was that matter was dead, along with God, and that humans could reason their way to freedom. Reason has its uses â it is a gift we are given, and we should wield it, like technology, as wisely as we can. But at root, humans are fundamentally spiritual animals. The future is not atheists in space. The future, like the past, will be religious. Even the the rationalists and the soldiers-of-Enlightenment are wobbling on the ground from which they once scoffed so proudly at the babushkas and the saints. It may be that the new gyre is beginning, quietly, to turn.
Our crumbling culture can be so hard to navigate. Religion can be hard to navigate too. But maybe Christmas can help us understand what it is, and what part of us it services. Religion is not, as atheists often assume and I once assumed too, a set of beliefs to be adhered to, or arguments to be made and defended. It is an experience to be immersed in. The orthopraxy reveals the orthodoxy. Fasting makes no sense until you fast. Praying is meaningless, even embarrassing, until you start to pray. If the Christian path is straight and narrow, we can do nothing but try to walk it, even if we keep falling off. God makes no sense until you start to talk to him. Then, strangely enough, all sorts of other things start to make sense too. It is hard, if not impossible to explain, and yet it is the simplest thing in the world. We have always done it. We always will.
I remember the first time I tentatively stepped into an Orthodox church to attend a Divine Liturgy. I had no idea what to do, or what to expect, or whether I even really wanted to be there. From the outside, to the Western mind, it all looks intimidatingly Byzantine â not to mention extremely long. But something happens when you stand, immersed in it all. You come to feel as if you are being carried down a great timeless river to an almost unfathomable destination that you could never reach on your own. But of course, you are not on your own. Not now. You will never be on your own again. You have come home.
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SubscribeMr. Kingsnorth is a fine and interesting writer and I always enjoy his articles. I want to believe his argument that religious belief is again asserting itself, that a new gyre is forming, because that is an encouraging possibility. But I’m not quite sure.
Mr. Kingsnorth wrote, ” But at root, humans are fundamentally spiritual animals.” I’m tempted to revise that sentence: “But at root, humans are fundamentally animals.” And like most animals we flourish in groups, not alone.
Perhaps what Mr. Kingsnorth is observing is people rejecting both the atomization of modern society, with its emphasis on the supremacy of the individual, and the doctrine of multiculturalism which, in essence, tells us identifying with a specific group is wrong and we must all conform to a homogeneous, global culture.
Perhaps people are doing what human beings have always done and are strongly identifying with their own tribe, typically based on shared culture. Religious observance might be one way of affirming a group identity without necessarily having true religious belief. How many people go to church as much for the camaraderie and socializing after the service as for the religion itself?
I hope Mr. Kingsnorth is right because his idea probably leads to better outcomes than mine.
I don’t know, the human brain is insane both intellectually and emotionally. AI is just a conglomeration of intellectual data from the collective hivemind but it will never be as emotionally variable and adaptable as human beings.
But to your point about humans being just another animal. Personally, I don’t buy the transitional species argument. I get it. I just think it relies on weak science like anthropology and is rampant speculation. I struggle to buy any science that wholly relies on recreating the past. Live Science like chemistry and physics is at least testable and relatively apolitical.
Think about climate science. It’s wholly based on a speculative global history of planetary heating. The same “experts” telling everyone humans are a transitional ape species are the same smug, triple boosted “humanitarians” claiming the earth is facing impending doom from climate change due to cow farts and gas powered cars.
If this is your true opinion (the last paragraph) then why not try even for your own sake?
Like all human activity, it will be a waste of time.
I have enjoyed Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s and now Mr. Kingsnorth’s courageous public testimonies of faith. And I appreciate Mr. Bryant for his humble acknowledgement that their worldviews lead to “better outcomes” than his. Perhaps he will someday find his way home too.
I have found mine in a different vein of Christianity. Its focus is not on the Trinitarian dogmas of the Nicene Creed, formulated by 300 all-male bishops in the fourth century, but on the two Great Commandments that Jesus emphasized: love of God who created us and “our neighbor as ourselves.” This is the spiritual heart and soul of religion for both Christians and Jews. This is what a traditionalist like Kingsnorth and a progressive like me share. This deserves to be called “true religion.” Anyone who can accept and live by this simple formula, or even try to live by it, will arrive at a “better outcome.”
Is the West really gravitating toward a new age of religion? I think it is, not only because it is dawning on people that life without religion is increasingly unbearable as one ages, but because more and more hints of transcendence are surfacing. Visions reported by dying people are turning up everywhere, and spirits like those described by Yeats and his wife are prompting us to take seriously the world we will enter at death.
The old materialism seems to be slowly dying. Scientists studying the near-death experience tell us that the brain doesn’t produce consciousness; rather it is the instrument that the conscious self uses to generate our experience. At death the self doesn’t cease to be but only lifts off from the old shell with its dying brain into a spiritual afterlife.
It used to be popular to pooh-pooh such a vision as superstition. But evidence is mounting that the reverse is true: Kingsnorth and Ali are the new prophets, Dawkins and Hitchens the old and fading.
Or in Hitchens’ case, a dead prophet already in the stage of beginning to be as forgotten as A.J. Ayer, the British philosopher who was the Dawkins of his time. Stricken with pneumonia, the eminent atheist got himself to a hospital in time for his heart to stop and he was clinically dead for four minutes. During that time he became aware of a pulsing red ball, very bright, which he interpreted as the engine of the universe. Revived, he later was honest enough to tell the story, but said his views about the hereafter had not changed except for a little bit. Eben Alexander, a Harvard-trained neurosurgeon. was felled by a rare virus that brought him to the edge of death. His best-selling Proof of Heaven is an absorbing read.
Hypoxia?
Of course. His views have not changed ‘a little bit’ as far as I am aware.
There is no answer and it will never be found.
There have been out-of-body accounts that ended too fast for hypoxia to be the explanation. I know of a soldier thrown from a crashing helicopter who had an OBE, told the ‘beings’ he wanted to return, and came to in time to save the pilots from drowning.
Was he given an OBE for that?
Rubbish!
^Thank you for your cogent and reasoned reply.^
Your point of view brings Pascal’s wager to mind.
Why is Paul Kingsnorth courageous in his ‘public testimony of faith’? This is neither North Korea nor 2014 ISIS territory. Your language suggests Christians are persecuted in our society. Do you believe this to be the case?
Starting to be.
Christians are more likely to face ridicule in western society. That can be harder to deal with than persecution.
Yes.
I think the courage lies in putting out his thoughts and having his words ruthlessly scrutinised by intelligent sceptics. He is being as transparent as he can possibly be so that there is little misunderstanding about what he is trying to articulate. There is no recourse to sophistry to defend an argument that is really just a means of shoe horning in some activist agenda. Any writer who does this is courageous, whatever their actual views. This is especially courageous where those views are not fashionable.
Christians, Christianity, are definitely being percecuted for their beliefs nowadays.
For example, try to espouse the Christian belief of marriage being only between a man and a woman, or that there are only 2 genders and you will understand the persecution.
Keith, if you hang around universities and places the university class like to inhabit, you’d soon realise Christians are routinely derided. Nothing will be said to anyone’s face, but it’s regarded as a preventable mental illness that reflects badly on their broader character. They won’t be invited to au fait dinner groups.
the god-thing is not a being that needs love brother – we are supposed to love ie want the best for – each other -because we are all PART of the god-thing. The sooner we all realize this the better………………
What ‘evidence’? You are spouting nonsense.
Secularists are always surprised when they learn that I go to church regularly because it makes me happy and not to accumulate brownie points with God.
Worship, whether in church or alone often lifts up my spirit so that my mind is flooded with joy. A few times there have been mystical experiences
On a Sunday three weeks ago, for instance, after listening to an interesting sermon about people being healed by Jesusâ power these days, I accepted the pastorâs invitation to come forward for prayer. Since having had a recent Covid shot I had been feeling down and hoped it might give me a boost.
Standing before the pastor I surprised myself by blurting out: âI love Jesusâ. As he prayed over me I felt wonderfully filled with happiness. Then I walked away in a blissful daze. I had to sit down for the next 20 minutes and every time I repeated in my mind the words âI love Jesusâ, I had to smile and my heart felt like it was leaping for joy.
Since becoming a born-again Christian in 2001 my life has improved 100 per cent. I know, without a doubt, that there is a meaning to this life, and it is to be found through a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
Amen.
Men talk too much
“Visions reported by dying people are turning up everywhere,…”
Do you think, perhaps, that social media has anything to do with this?
Heâs right. Humanity is inherently religious. If you take away formal religion, we worship something else. Thatâs what woke culture is. Thatâs what environmentalism is. There are two man categories that the philosophers recognized, and they serve as two primary categories of all philosophy: Universals and Particulars. Plato being recognized as arguing for universal truths, and Aristotle for particulars. In the West Aquinas got the philosophers accepted into the universities again, and the West became Aristotelian with Christianity providing the universal (transcendent) truths. When I say truths, I mean that it was accepted as common ground between both atheist and theist alike. Itâs just that the atheistic side that over time stripped it all of its miracles and transcendence into a set of useful assumed truths. All the way into modernism and then postmodernism where there is simply different forms of nihilism. Theyâre still religious, but itâs just redirected into some other private secularized religion. David Zahl does a good job of pointing this out in his book âSeculosityâ.
Why do you think that everything is a ‘religion’. People have always had group preoccupations to the point of absurdity.
We, the spiritual, are leaving you behind. A new paradigm is emerging.
Hardly new.
Human beings are not fundamentally animals. We attribute meaning by way of symbolism. Animals don’t do this, and can’t because they can’t wield language like we can. My dog can learn one-way stimulus response relations so that I can say “walkies”, then grab the lead and take him for a walk; and in the future he will associate “walkies” with an impending walk. I can not say to him “this is walkies” whilst we are walking, or “this was walkies” after a walk and expect him to understand that “walkies” means “we are going for a walk”. We attribute meaning to events not as stimulus-response relations like animals but through myriad relational ‘frames’ of contextual associations made of symbolic structures – words. This means we can speak to one another and convey deep meaning. Downside is we can also experience existential dread, longing, and post traumatic stress amongst other painful examples of the human experience.
Secondly we will do things to benefit out-group individuals. An animal will never lay down their life to sage that of another animal which competes for resources and for the opportunities to pass on their genetic code. Human beings will do exactly this, and consider it the greatest form of love.
This is memetics- humans are cultural animals. Humans only sacrifice for out-groups because our cultures tell us to. Humans before the advent of pro-social religions didn’t do this.
That’s not true. Archaeologists find evidence that cave dwellers in long long ago made a sledge to pull a crippled child around and other evidence of care for less able people. People have always been kind and generous hearted. And cruel and selfish. And contradictory.
The crippled child was a member of the in-group, the tribe; âUnHerd Readerâ was speaking of sacrifices for out-groups.
The biblical exhortations about having mercy on the stranger and outcast–in addition to the poor, widowed, and orphaned–are a few thousand years old now, likely with much more ancient antecedents.
Attempts to make human tribal insularity and lack of compassionate outreach into Nature’s Truth reveal more about the likely motives of the individuals advancing such claims, than they do to establish anything that’s true about the history and evolution of human behavior.
Universalism has become prestigious .Or so-called universalism . Look at the Queers demonstrating on behalf of Hamas . Hamas are devotees of hard core Islam and approve of their prophetâs military conquests of unbelievers . Nor do they tolerate homosexuals .
In the name of universalism and anti-colonialism queer activists abhor the secular liberal state of Israel . Hatred of Israel binds queer activists together as much as hatred of queers (and Israel) binds together the true followers of Hamas .
Cultural misconceptions generate in-group self -identification as much as or more than shared genes .
The mongol army is outside the gates of the city and the citizens prepare for a siege . The bishop decides to send the Khan the keys of the city to demonstrate the superior ethics and universalism of his religion . Greatest form of love ?
Only a very small minority will respond as you allege. If they consider this the greatest form of love, then they are narcissists.
Iâve seen evidence that elephants will attempt to save their comrades. Even saw it once with a group of wildebeests.
I agree with much of that. I’d sum up my sensibility as understanding what the writer is getting at, having experienced much of the same dislocating processes, both external and internal, from my mid-teens onwards.
Through this though, a different way of being has emerged, and it’s neither materialistic or religious. It’s certainly spiritual, and i really couldn’t care less if some take issue with that.
It’s just a little bit too comfortable or comforting, to reach back towards old “solutions”, even those adapted for our era, which is redolent of a changing epoch. I’d challenge the author by asking “…and what if we’re now experiencing something else entirely?” We can’t undo technology, but nor should we worship it or tremble before it. In fact, we shouldn’t worship anything. It’s really just not necessary. We can love, and try to live in a communal sense with our “tribe”, which may allow and include newcomers who wish to join us, but other tribes are not our enemies; we should seek to neither conquer nor give way.
Above all, we should seek to understand ourselves. The each and every heartbeat the author writes about, the ‘narrow way’ of Christ even, but without the worship or the dogma.
Well said. I admire this passage in particular:
‘We can love, and try to live in a communal sense with our âtribeâ, which may allow and include newcomers who wish to join us, but other tribes are not our enemies; we should seek to neither conquer nor give way’.
Having been raised by parents who were ex-Catholics and hippies (in my early years), I only came to religious texts as an inquiring late teenager. I felt in my blood, bones, and what I’d call my soul, that there is genuine wisdom and inspiration in parts of the Bible. And in parts of the Dhammapada and Bhagavad Gita. In Meister Eckhart and CS Lewis too. And, without doubt, in many books and faith traditions I’ve read little or nothing from, and may never do.
To admit the obvious: The parts of the Bible that I consider most inspired or enduring are not authoritatively so. I think there is indispensable incomparable power in the Gospels, but I no longer take an exceptionalist stance on that. Others may find stronger inspiration or something more resonant elsewhere, in writings that have an inspired wisdom, morality, or other spiritual character.
Not everything placed under the banner of religion–whether redeemed by perceived spiritual merit or not–is nonsense. Not all of it is worthwhile. Baby vs. bathwater. These categories needn’t include the same parts or aspects for every person, Some are more drawn to ritual and community. Some will try to remain “congregations of one”. We can, to an extent, choose our “tribe”, or reject all views that don’t come from our own heads. But not without a cost, and prospective reward, either way. (I do think Churches of Self are bound to crumble). The road back home beckons, but it is not the exact same path for all of us.
I donât know man, if we are animals then we have managed to exhaust the definition of our essence which means total manipulation/control is possible and secondly if we are mere animals, a product of bottom up evolution, than this does not take into account the telos that has to come from somewhere other than the said bottom up direction. Work of Michael Levine in biology and limb regeneration for example convincingly shows that bottom up emergence makes good sense only if it is matched by top down emanation and that the neatest theory explaining it is Platonic. Go figure â! Anyhow it seems that there is a way more to the nature of reality then the evolutionary theory can capture!
We are not mere animals. Some non-humans aren’t either.
Fair point!
Probably some good insights here. But I’m not sure Christians throughout the ages simply all had ‘true religious belief.’ Although the social imaginary/ conceptual world they lived within set a lot of parameters, faith has always involved a lot of uncertainty, negotiation of self-doubt, and an element of people just being sociable in their communities.
I am reminded of the diaries and letters of 18th century Royal Navy sailors. We presume then to be a much more pious Christian era, but the contemporary record shows most of the sailors shunned religion. Trapped on the same hulk for months, religious services were stripped of any fresh social contact. Many sailors looked for any excuse to avoid the compulsory Sunday assembly.
The institution of the Royal Navy seemingly supplanted the need for religion amongst many of its sailors. The Royal Navy offered social order, social occasions, and a group identity to belong. Only spirituality was not offered by the Royal Navy, and many sailors decided to go without this.
So while order, social occasion, and belonging are seemingly things many do need, these sailors were definitely not spiritual animals. Our modern selves are probably a lot closer to Royal Navy conscripts than the aristocracy whose lives dominate literature from the period and inform much of what we think about our forebearers.
âRum, sodomy and the lashâ, what more could one want?
More of the first one, less of the last two?
I would opt for the sodomy, but skip the rum and the lash.
âTradition?â replied Churchill, âthe traditions of the Royal Navy are rum, sodomy and the lash.â
Flora Thompson in her fictionalized remembrance of life in a village of mostly agricultural labourers recorded that no one went to church. One family,not Anglican but Baptists went to a nearby Chapel every Sunday and were lovely people but everyone else in the village was,not hostile,but indifferent. The men wanted to relax on their day off. That was how it was all over England in reality,a lot less pious than we are told.
One certainly hopes that in that so called exceptional USA they don’t declare an Amerikan Christian religion that all citizens must belong to or convert..
Religion(sic) does that means more ages of war.
Yes humans regressing to animals.
If one cannot determine right and wrong by one self …
That is prevented by the first amendment to our Constitution.
He is wrong. He only talks about the Christian religion,
The Gyre can be variously interpreted, even from a religious point of view.
It could the cycles of geomagnetic reversion
https://medium.com/@jeffmiller_14689/the-distractive-temporariness-of-human-overpopulation-031d534c4cda
Or it could be an iteration of panarchy theory
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10013239/#:~:text=Panarchy%20theory%20focuses%20on%20the,2014)
which explicitly grapples with systemic dynamics of change, including the possibility of collapse and the emergence of novel systems and the recognition that there can be high uncertainty associated with a new system trajectory during the reorganization phase (Allen and Holling 2010).
Either would aptly describe the Book of Revelations that is being implicitly referred to by Paul.
Perhaps humans are sensing we are nearing the end of a cycle, whether geomagnetic or panarchical and as a result are turning to “God”.
“humans are fundamentally animals”. Whether this is technically true or not is less interesting than the universal phenomenon of acting like we don’t believe that. Even the delusion of uniqueness would in itself be a phenomenon that animals are, by definition, incapable of.
I wholly agree about our yearning for collective unity in our tribes and the great harm the new hooman right/progressive emphasis on the individual has inflicted. But multiculturalism does not insist upon a single unified ‘Pepsi’ Global Citizenry. It is an ideology which asserts that within any native culture cannot assert any supremacy over foreign/non -native cultures. It has a racial hierarchy – a pyramid of virtue – established by Equality Laws which elevates and privileges non white groups (victims of imperialism/white male patriarchy) above the oppressor tribes of white Western nation states. So there is no unity within global multiculturalism at all. It is a divisive racial ideology.
J Bryant says “doctrine of multiculturalism which, in essence, tells us identifying with a specific group is wrong and we must all conform to a homogeneous, global culture.”
On the face of it, left unmodified, this isn’t a convincing proposition. No, the idea is that the Western liberal elite, who, by multiculturalism, curate the neutral grounding space (the table upon which all is played out) of the multicultural state, sit above and beyond the charming little ethnic cultures they love to adore. The ethnics are supposed to enact their cultures with interesting little restaurants and their part in state-funded multicultural festivals and whatnot, i.e. things the “non-cultural” elite like, and it’s the *elite* who belong to their own frequent flyer homegenous global culture; as I say to curate the theme park state in which dear little pocs and vulgar lower class whites (the bete noir of the brahmin whites) can run around, under the supervision and guidance of the global brahmin class.
All good thoughts. There is a universal confusion among highIQ agnostics between transcendence, the religious texts, and the local church.
Transcendence is irrefutable if you have the humility to accept that we know almost nothing about the world around us. How does a plate of food become a drop of blood? We have absolutely no idea, so to suggest we have unbraided the concept of transcendence and found it implausible is hubris.
The great religious texts attempt to create architypes that support the idea of transcendence via story telling.
Last, the church is a place for like-minded people to come together and form a tribe. With that comes a hierarchy and power structure.
My highIQ agnostic friends start and end with the “hypocrites” at church on Sunday morning, which completely misses the point.
I love so much of what Paul Kingsnorth says and I am delighted that he has become a Christian and appears to describe his conversion as âcoming homeâ. Truly wonderful and heart-warming! In the spirit of knowing the joy and freedom that truth brings, I want Paul Kingsnorth to have a deeper joy, if I may be so bold, which means I must challenge one or two of his points or assumptions as I understand them.
I want to say that for Christians, and Jews too, time is linear: it is going somewhere. To say that time is going in spirals or not going anywhere at all is not Christian: it is pagan or Eastern. Christians believe that history was decisively divided into two by the Christ event, and that Jesusâ physical resurrection means that we have hope: we have hope that the future will be better than the past, and yes, we have hope for ourselves that what has separated us from God, is now dealt with and we can spend eternity with him. So, for Christians, this hope drives us to engage with the world and we genuinely believe that, within certain limits, there can be real progress and that the world can be a better place. This axiomatic belief, along with others that include the precious value and equality of every individual before God and the law, has been the reason why the west is where it is, and why, for a large part, it has provided more for the thriving of individuals than other cultures. As Christian belief wanes, the first thing surely to wane with it, will be hope and the belief in genuine progress.
Of course, we believe that the most important change which enables progress, is a change of heart, a thinking differently (repentance) and the contrition that goes with it. We believe in the Kingdom of God coming and for Godâs will to be done âon Earth as it is in heavenâ., albeit against a backdrop of war, suffering, waste, perplexity, want and general evil and brokenness. The Kingdom of God is not âof this worldâ as Jesus said to Pilate, but it is for this world.. So, while the talk of a âgyreâ is possibly true in part (no person can deny the rising and falling of systems and world views), the most fruitful picture is found in a dream recorded in Daniel chapter 2 of different regimes in his image of statue made of successive materials: gold, silver, bronze, iron and clay. âThen the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on the threshing floor in summer. The wind swept them away without trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earthâ. Christians thrill to the knowledge that the future is glorious and have an internal witness of this hope they carry around with them. That is why we do what we do – not so much the love we have, but the hope we have. Also, incidentally, this “forward lookingness” Christians have means that Christans will adopt technology and drive its development too. (It is believed that the first adopters of the codex rather than the scroll were Christians in Alexandria).After all, humans are tool makers and we shape and fashion things. But it is clearly paramount we do not confuse technological advance with real progress which is a change in the human heart, the light of Christ recognised and embraced, love increasing, justice and peace established, the Kingdom of God growing. It is paramount too that we act in a way to safeguard this wonderful sacred planet, marvelling at its beauty and the one who lent it to us.
What a beautiful comment!
“To put career before family. To accumulate wealth as a marker of status. To treat sex as recreation. To reflexively mock authority and tradition. To put individual desire before community responsibility. To treat the world as so much dead matter to be interrogated by the scientific process. To assume our ancestors were thicker than us.”
Admirable captures the essence of our current era!
You are joking!.Stay home.OK. Wear a mask! OK. Jump! How high! Obey The Science and Your Betters. Happy too,don’t like thinking for myself anyway.
Here in the RC corner, there has been in the last decade a growing swell of attendance by people of all ages, many families with young children, at the traditional Latin Mass. The ancient ritual laced with Gregorian chant, handed down over 1,500 years, and centered on the actions by the priest at the altar mostly conducted in silence, lifts the minds and hearts of the congregation in worship of the Creator, in thankfulness for the profound teachings and redeeming self-sacrifice of Christ, in trusting presentation of personal needs to a loving God, in joy through the infusion of the Holy Spirit. The senses are engaged by the nobility of the architecture, the beauty of the ordered and crafted furnishings, the stately choreography of priest and acolytes together with the prescribed movements of the congregation, the timeless chant and faith-filled hymns. Within community, there is expansive space for interior reflection. Within repetition, there is ample room for the Divine to touch individual hearts. This is the traditional Catholic Latin Mass.
And this is the form of Roman Catholic worship that the current Vatican regime is actively suppressing. A staggering and historic scandal, and yet, just so, possibly a sign that the tide must soon sweep away that rejection, that a collapse of the attempt to recreate the Roman Catholic Church in the postmodern image is imminent.
I have seen no reason why Damian Thompson’s gloomy predictions would not come to fruition. I am not RC (CoE) but am hopeful that Latin Mass congregations can maintain themselves until a new pope is coronated. However, is there any indication that the next pontiff will be any more amenable to them? Having only really read and listened to a pessimist like DT it is hard to imagine the next will be anything other than Francis’ creature due to the college of cardinals being now skewed in that direction.
Just because the cardinals were appointed by Francis, doesn’t mean they’ll vote for someone like him — all the cardinals in 2013 had been appointed by Benedict or John Paul II, and we know how that election turned out. The impression I get is that a lot of senior churchmen are kind of annoyed at Francis’ “make a mess” approach, so I expect the next pope to be a relatively bland “centrist” (insofar as such a term makes sense in a Church context) who won’t rock the boat too much.
That is me
I sometimes wonder if the pope is not possessed by Satan.
Is the Pope Catholic?
I love the beauty , grace and effect of the Latin Rite, but our church has determined that we won’t ask the people of Asia and Africa to first learn Latin and Greek before becoming Catholic. The church exists to serve God and neighbor. I get the real sentiments and values, but the Second Vatican Council and the Primacy of the Holy See are the foundation of our faith. To Catholics only the pope gets to be pope. We have a duty of conscience. Maybe Jesus knew what he was up to. Thank God for the papacy.
You don’t actually need to know Latin or Greek to attend a Latin mass. Latin was, after all, the Church’s main liturgical language down to 1969, a good millennium and a half or so after most people stopped being able to speak it.
It appears he acknowledges that for a decent culture to survive, religious or not, the ideological death cult that is Islamism must be erased from society.
I am an atheist with no doubts, but I don’t think Islam is unusual amongst religions. All religions are death cults at heart – Christianity openly and emphatically so – in the obvious sense that they make promises about death not being the end of any individual mind.
Where are the Christian hordes refusing to assimilate, creating zones policed by biblical law, and talking of death to nonbelievers?
Oh, Idaho?
You live on another planet. And after this pathetic attempt at a joke, there is nothing left except treating YOU as a joke.
I think to be categorised as a âdeath cultâ there probably needs to be a death wish on your own part and a readiness to inflict death on those who fail to conform to your beliefs. Some past Christians(in name anyway!) met the latter criterion, but I canât think of any examples of the former. The nearest would be a preparedness to die rather than recant, but thatâs rather different to a desire to die.
In other words, religions are life cults.
Atheism is the death cult. It believes that, in Stalin’s words, “Death always has the last word.”
Exactly the opposite. God is REASON.. why the universe is intelligibly ordered and why reasoning works. Your free will and mind’s ability to grasp fully determinate universals and work with non material things show you have something about us transcending death. Materialists are the death cult.
Assisted dying or State Murder is a Death Cult. It is also a repackaged and rebranded Nazi idea,a shiny painted t**d.
And no doubt you have irrefutable evidence for that? Or is it that yours is just another belief system.
The author and I are about the same age and I can identify completely with the world of his youth. Another story I grew up absorbing reflectively but which turned out to be an utter lie: that the US is Britain’s friend.
I grew up in that postwar narrative of thinking we were buddies forever, brothers in arms due to what we’d been through together in WW2. Now I look at the States and think at most, they are an ally but definitely no friend. The best thing that I can say about American hegemony these days is that it’s the best of what’s on offer. My admiration for the place has receded significantly.
Katharine, I am a thorough Yank. Born and bred in the Western U.S. But I understand what you are saying and can see why you don’t think of us as your friends. And American foreign policy has been dreadful for quite a while now. But I see us, not as enemies, but as alike. As I read Unherd, it seems to me that a lot of what is wrong in America is plaguing the U.K.–and Europe as well.
You are 100% correct. American wokeism and toxic race politics is poisoning many other countries.
If it means anything to you, as an American my admiration for my country has also receded significantly. I admire what America once was. America has morphed into an entity I can no longer recognize or admire.
The USA has lost its ideals and substituted opinions and ideology for them. It’s all very sad.
We used to be. Both British culture and Christianity was referenced in a lot of 1970âs tv. Diversity is not a strength.
Donât worry it is in terminal decline and heading towards civil war and partition.
Mr.Kingsnorth includes the Enlightenment in his list of things to blame for our present predicament, and adds the usual derogatory reference to Dawkins et al. Why would belief in a fantasy world be better than rational enquiry, unless you were ‘childlike’?
Shorter article (no AI involved): “The Enlightenment (good in parts) is fading and a New Romanticism (bad in parts) is rising.”
The reality of the universe we find ourselves in doesn’t meet the requirements of our ‘elite’ thinkers.
and, as Dawkins pointed out – it is faith which allows “good” people to do very bad things.
Anyone who knows any history at all is well aware of that – but what it proves is ‘Corruptio optimi pessima’. Faith (whether religious or secular) can lift a person to the heights of virtue, but also cause them to act like devils.
Faith in Communism killed many millions.
But it’s SO ANNOYING the killer is always an ugly weirdo who nobody likes ie ME. Except once found it never is. He ( rarely she) is that lovely neighbour who always had a pleasant word for everyone,kept themselves to themselves but was never objectionable,the face of a monster screams the tabloid,but the face is perfectly pleasant ,indeed attractive,you’d get in conversation with this bloke in a pub or even,ooh err,accept a lift home in the rain. Nice,good people do BAD things because that’s everybody
Communism and fascism killed more people in one century than Christianity did in twenty.
Is it necessarily simply ‘belief in a fantasy world’ or is it a vehicle for human truths — or at least ‘wisdom’ and a tried and tested social guide –through parable and religious practise/ orthopraxy? Are religious observance and rational enquiry mutually exclusive? Empirical observation reveals that they aren’t! Don’t Dawkins and Hitchens have something of the tone and character of vain Christian evangelists themselves? Aren’t most western values part of a cultural inheritance which has been uniquely shaped and moulded by centuries of Christianity, including other syncretic elements? Did New Atheism really escape/ transcend this cultural inheritance?
Thankyou for your well made point. Mr. Kingsmith seems unappreciative of Enlightenment values, and I even agree with him that Dawkins can be infuriating when he sets out to so carefully correct our silly selves, but I can’t see how any heartfelt mysticism can ever be anything except rhetorical, even metaphorical, when compared to systematised realistic and thus testable applied knowledge. Science is simply the most important thing that mankind has ever done!
Yes, science will destroy humanity.
Back in the 1990s when Yugoslavia broke up and all the factions started sticking it to each other yet to us they all looked the same it was a shock to realise we were seeing a place where The Enlightenment never happened. OK maybe some intellectuals but mostly the people had pre-enlightenment and semi-feudal mindsets,not that this impeded them from using high tech,they had oldy fash ideas,not stupidity. So,all the garbage Clinton + Blair etc were spouting was nonsense to those people as they’d not had two hundred years of Enlightenment ideas being imposed on them whether they liked it or not.
To that I would say, Imagine music⊠is it math or mystic; science or spirit? The scientific AI will make something emulating music but will it be fulfilling? To whom? For how long?
I am not pretending I know the answer.
I donât believe the âworldâ is flat.
I did enjoy Mr Kingsnorthâs proposition, respectfully.
Yet, science has not been able to answer any of the same basic questions that humans struggle with, such as where we came from or why we are here. (And please don’t tell me about the theory where two big rocks of unknown origin collided in space and set into motion life as we know it. Or the one about single celled creatures evolving in the sea, eventually inhabiting land and evolving into human beings, who build airplanes and rocket ships.) I’d rather stick with my religion, thank you.
Or what is human consciousness.
“Science is simply the most important thing that mankind has ever done!”
Is it? Or is formulating “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,” or the negative version “Do not to others what is hateful to yourself,” or perhaps “Love your neighbor as yourself”?
Science cannot provide an “ought”, or a “why” (in an ultimate sense), only a “what” and a “how”, and it is very good at doing that.
It is a curious thing that that we are able to do it so well, if as the materialists hold, our minds are simply computational systems that evolved to solve survival problems on the African savanna. Easier to understand why we are good at science if there’s something about us described, at least poetically, if not literally, in the phrase, “Come let Us make Man in Our image and likeness.”
Of course, maybe you’re right, maybe the moral dicta are all actually of divine origin and not something we did.
He’s pointing to a wicked dilemma. All of our most Enlightenment cherished values come with a price tag – most obviously they represent a degree of social complexity that is inseparable from a level of energy/material throughput that may well in the end destroy the biosphere. The individualism and mobility destroys family and play -bound community, and makes us even more dependent on the high energy systems of the market – and the state, which are more or less one thing (the state depends on fiscal flows from the market). The disenchantment makes us unhappy and destroys meaning. Adorno and Horkheimer already drew out the paradox of an Enlightenment rationalism, materialism and universalism which allowed the trains to arrive on time at Auschwitz.
So the question is whether Enlightenment values can be reconciled with environmental restraint and a world of meaning and conviviality. It doesn’t seem likely.
The Enlightenment was a product of Christendom. Modern individualism is a perversion of the Imago Dei – as Tom Holland has demonstrated with rather magnificent acumen. Without Judeo-Christianity there is no sacral individual – and certainly no liberalism, no Dawkins and no Hitchens. But the religious view is communitarian. The astonishing aspect of the Jewish and Christian vision is the extent to which this idea of a distinct self made in the image of GOd can be reconciled with what Owen Barfield called ‘final participation’ – a recovery of that supreme togetherness with each other and with the divine….but without losing the individual in a kind of oceanic dissolution (as in Buddhism or Hinduism and pre-CHristian paganism) …This vision is of individual liberation through constraint….through self restraint. We get a hint at this in a happy marriage, parenting and some better than me in a life of service to the community…. The problem is of course negotiating this holistic …’complete act’ (Andrew Willard Jones’ term)…in which there is no experiential or subjective distinction between religious and spiritual activity, family, and ‘secular’ politics. We are a long way from that….and it is probably impossible…WHo knows?
But it’s difficult to disentangle Diderot, Kant and Descartes from Dr Strangelove. I think that to paraphrase Thomas Sowell, the problem with Dawkins and HItchins – as with all the warriors of Enlightenment (including those on the dark side) is that they are always looking for ‘solutions’ (and sometimes ‘final’ solutions) This is the hubris of humanism. But as Sowell points out again and again, there are no solutions – only trade offs.
And maybe there never was a problem or issue in the first place but if you’re “selling” solutions,you need problems.
The Enlightenment has become the bad boy for those seeking something transcending reality. It did not derive from Christianity (though some of its adherents will claim it did), but was a reaction against it. Blaming all of our present day ills on the Enlightenment is like blaming mathematicians for the misuse of statistics.
Have you read Tom Hollandâs Dominion? Highly recommend. Also Stricklandâs Age of Paradise series. The Enlightenment is an integrated part of the whole history of the West, not some reactionary âbetterâ separate from it.
I haven’t read Holland’s book but do remember a conversation he had with A C Grayling on the same topic. In essence, Holland believes that buying a Leica camera instantly makes you a great photographer. Simply by coming after something doesn’t mean you derive from it. But if you insist it does, then the faults of the Enlightenment must rest with Christianity.
Based on this example, logic and analysis are not strong points of what you mean by “the Enlightenment.”
Only filthy rich people can afford to think like you do,all dismissive and snooty.
Merry Christmas!
Peace and grace to you.
It is SO typical of New Atheism to equate “the Enlightenment” with “rational enquiry,” and so ignorant.
See this lecture by Ian Hutchinson of MIT: https://youtu.be/BIX9MGtVU2c?feature=shared&t=175
Belief in a “fantasy world” is not better than rational inquiry, but belief in a transcendent Ground-of-Being inaccessible to rational inquiry, along with rational inquiry within the bounds to which it is applicable, is far, far better than rational inquiry alone.
One of the Fathers of the Church, we Orthodox call him “St. Gregory the Theologian”, the Latins and Anglicans call him “St. Gregory of Nazianzus”, said, “In as much as we exist, God does not exist. In as much as God exists, we do not exist.” Dawkins et al only see our existence, and rightly conclude there is no mere entity with the attributes we Christians ascribe to God. The logic-puzzle God of the philosophers is a snare and a delusion both to science and to faith. One of the basic principles of Orthodox Christian theology is that there is no likeness whatsover between the created and the Uncreated. It is for that reason that we try not to make positive statements about God, but theologize only by denying false ideas about Him.
Interesting point. Your position reminds me of the increasingly complicated theories put forward by the Earth-Centric believers to maintain the idea that humans are at the centre of the universe and therefore special. Making God slippery will certainly make it harder for atheists to keep up, but I find that accepting physical reality as all there is, to be like waking after a night of dreaming. And also an excellent foundation for a sane and stable life (especially in the postmodern West).
The political or cultural Christianity that he speaks of that is on the rise is only natural. He is right however that humanity needs religion, because you need some sort of universals in a culture to give meaning to the particulars.
Nietzsche recognized this in terror when he wrote that God is dead, and we have killed him. Though he was an athiest himself, he realized that any culture needed common and accepted universal truths to provide meaning to particulars of life or there would be chaos. For example, what is a man and what is a woman? What is marriage? What is faithfulness and why would you want to be faithful? If there are no universal truths to give the particulars meaning then a man or a woman are just social constructs. They are like programmable placeholders that can be swapped out at will. However in practice we find that this leads to chaos. Which is where Western culture is headed. So the smart people who donât really have much to do with God âinternallyâ as Kingsnorth notes, at least want the whole Christianity thing established externally, for the benefits of Western culture not collapsing and eating itself.
Nietzsche went a different route. He replaced the universals with âhuman excellenceâ. Hitler loved that, and yet militarized it. Thatâs the ultimate expression of what is both attractive (everything of human excellence) , with the most repulsive and evil (forced down the worlds throat at the end of a gun, with the wrong kind of people exterminated). A people who consider themselves Godâs chosen and operated accordingly inside of the culture obviously was a problem for him and the world of human excellence he wanted to make. What sort of people are the âuseless peopleâ that the World Economic Forum has denoted? What makes people useful and useless in the eyes of globalist elites? Thatâs what weâre looking at, either them, or whatever we replace them with⊠What kind of world do we want to live in?
Experiencing a liturgy is one thing, reciting the Nicene Creed is another. It starts with “I believe”, not “I immerse myself into a narrative”
Reciting the Nicene Creed *is* immersing yourself into a narrative if it is anything at all.
Yes, if you believe it in the first place. Shouldn’t you believe in what you profess believing?
I do agree, but sometimes coming to faith is a process rather than a crisis.
Indeed. The Creed begins with the Beginning, centers on the story of Jesus, ends with the end of history. What is that, if not a narrative?
A thoughtful and profound article. Itâs become increasingly clear that people have a God-shaped space within them which needs to be filled. If it isnât, it leads to para-religious displacement activities that have a remarkably consistent narrative, which runs as follows:
1. An original sinâŠ
2. âŠleading ultimately to a punitive and imminent apocalypse that involves one or more of the Four Horsemen.
3. A diminishing chance of averting the forthcoming apocalypse, that demands eye-watering sacrifice from those groups considered most responsible for the original sin.
4. No absolute guarantee this sacrifice will be successful.
5. Increasing sanctions against those who question this narrative.
6. A priestly cohort of believers who take part in an arms-race for purity and punish heretics with ever-increasing zeal, particularly those within their ranks.
Any of the last centuryâs great events show a remarkable conformity to this framework.
The Cold War provided a tailor-made imminent nuclear apocalypse; and itâs interesting to see what happened after the perceived threat of a massive nuclear exchange went away. In Britain, we had a series of small crises, all of which fitted well into the central quasi-religious narrative described. BSE. Foot and mouth. Global warming. And the original sins of colonialism and slavery. Covid.
I believe that manâs need for God creates a clamouring hunger within him when itâs not met: one that he will do almost anything to satisfy. We can fill this gap with all sorts of fantastical and whimsical rubbish providing that it fits a particular narrative, and this leads us into some bizarre places.
As GK Chesterton observed: “When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything”
Si evidentiam requiris, circumspice.
Anyone quoting that old Chesterton chesnut should be made to quote it endlessly for the rest of their lives, until it drives them insane.
It’s got human spirituality the wrong way round. God was invented, by humans, to try to explain what the rise in consciouness seems to demand. The human spirit (which each of us as individuals feels) can be experienced entirely without recourse to a God.
But life can’t be experienced at all without the benefit of a creator, whether as a random or purposeful Miracle.
Very learned piece, but turning our backs on the world will just resign it to forces that will come and force us to live by their standards. If we don’t like those standards, it’s incumbent on us to fight back, because they won’t just let us walk away.
Mr Lee, your brilliantly perceptive comment presents the “dirty little (not-so) secret that exposes the conundrum of the “Love your neighbor as yourself” pablum. Although there may be an afterlife from a loving God, we must live in this wholly fallible material world of sin and corruption and error. There are humans who seemingly cannot help but wreak havoc on others. What do we do about that? Place our heads in the lions mouths in the arena? Watch as innocents are slaughtered? Who referees the chaos? How do we maintain even the most simplistic order? I live in the US and am over 75 years old. “By the grace of God (????)” I am relatively safe and sheltered and protected. That does not seem to be the lot of most of my 8+ BILLION neighbors. I pray for at least some of them and fear the others. The greatest abandonment of spirituality today is the inability to know what to do about “pain,” both our own and that of others, physically, mentally, and spiritually. What do we do? Prayer alone does not seem to suffice, especially if we pray to different gods for different outcomes. I am troubled by my own inability to find comfort in any of this exploration. But I know I must try every day to find a shard of wisdom. Best wishes.
Well said Mr Dzurak. The Christian ethic of turning the other cheek and accepting all on the basis that we could be entertaining angels potentially reduces Christians to helpless herbivores in a world of meat eaters. The expression âpathological compassionâ has lately appeared in print. Maybe, people more versed in biblical exegesis and Christian practice than I could offer some guidance on this one.
As an English sauvage du nord, allow me to have a pop?
âTurn the other cheekâ is perhaps more useful as an aid to understanding the nature of the person who spoke that line, than as a principle of national policy. To become a disciple of that one is to be a walker on the narrow path, a member of the city in the city (as China Mieville might have it).
The alternative, which the line assaults, is âan eye for an eyeâ – the principle on which all of our, ironically traditionally âChristianâ, visible âworldyâ cities are built on.
There may – – just may – – be a middle way: A living way to intuit in which particular circumstance to âturn the other cheekâ, or conversely to take up arms – –
â To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?â
The middle way? Chivalry.
Ay, thereâs the rub.
ThinkingâŠthinkingâŠhmmm Good. Thank you.
PS nice to see reference to China Mieville. I do enjoy his unusual prose style.
A beautiful article. Thank you.
What did Jesus of Nazareth say came out of the human heart? Sweetness and light? Deceitful above everything else, it’s never going to be a path to the ‘true self’, if such a thing ever exists.
It is always necessary to remind the evangelists of JW.org when they get out the Scriptures and start quoting chapter and verse that few people under the age of 40, and certainly almost none of the youngest adults, know the first thing about the Bible. Or indeed anything about the Church.
A simple example of this. On visiting St Patrick’s Cathedral in NYC, my young male relatives, all under the age of 40, didn’t take off their hats, as anyone from the older generations, even if not churchgoers, would have known to do.
If there’s a rough beast, it’s the Almighty God-State. More petitions are addressed to this deity than used to be addressed to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. In the UK, we are all Citizen NHS.
C S Lewis was making the observation that religion, especially Christianity, wasn’t, as he put it, ‘a short cut to the nearest chemist’s shop’. The man who became bishop of Durham in 1901 wrote as early as 1894 that in England Christianity had, even at that date, largely become no more than social improvement under the auspices of Christ.
The Apostle Paul warned his colleague, Timothy, that there would come ‘formidable seasons’. Being seasons, they occur at intervals. In them, the ‘weather’ is the world’s old evil increased to a greater degree than usual. But it’s not the end of days.
Christianity isn’t a religion. It’s a Person.
Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ based on love, kindness and hope.
In some of the comments, it becomes clear why so many atheists are not content with their view but feel the need to degrade the other side – The militant atheist is the mirror image of the zealot.
Each is so convinced that he is right that the other canât just be wrong, he is illegitimate and must be attacked. There is a reason itâs called faith. If you know, you know. If not, then carry on and leave folks be.
The carbonized pot calling the smudged kettle black .
No camp has a monopoly on the “need to degrade the other side”.
True. I’d even say that militant atheism is often outright zealotry: intolerant of other views and characterized by unwillingness to acknowledge the possibility of error.
We ought to tread a bit more lightly when it comes to people’s faith, or lack thereof.
Sermons and de-mystifications both have their place, but much of this talk starts out proud and petty then goes downhill from there.
I was not made to attend two hours of lectures from atheists each week as a child, nor submit to a wide range of atheistic rituals; nor to study atheism in school for an hour a week for 8 years; my gay friends were never told by atheists that their sexuality was wrong and damning. I could go on, and on.
That could change. It did in China and Russia for several decades. Non-religious zealotry can be every bit as severe, even murderous, as its disowned religious cousins. Sometimes more so.
Fair point. Surely thouh there is a middle ground. One where religion is not officially banned, or rather usurped by a new religion, where the religious are free to practice, and the non-religious are free to critique….oh wait…!
Ha! It’s almost as if we already have the world we need, but just don’t recognize it or know how to take full advantage of what we already have– for now.
Fair point(s) on your side too. Merry Christmas.
Probably not Merry Christmas, maybe happy winter? Heâs not celebrating it lest he be a hypocrite.
Wrong again; and despite the title, ‘Christmas’ has as much, probably more to do with pagan and humanistic culture/history than Christianity. Early Christianity being often rather clever in co-opting pre-existing traditions, hence the number of churches built near ancient Yew trees (an indication of a pagan site).
Need to get Mr Kingsnorth writing here more often. I am not sure that clicking on his name reveals his entire back-catalogue (old phone may have something to do with it) but it couldn’t hurt.
While Kingsnorth is clearly on his own, admirable path and I would wish him well in this personal journey there is a missing strand to his professed beliefs. In the West there is no indigenous Orthodox church as currently formulated. The practices and traditions of Eastern cultures (primarily Greek rather than Antiochene or Alexandrian) are thus imported wholesale and packaged as a church for a distinct community – Romanian/Russian/Serbian etc. towards which a convert gravitates. Unfortunately, outside of the community in which it is based the bounds for evangelism in each church are limited (scripture read in an often archaic form of language for instance) and none other than the Russian has any recent and widespread missionary history to draw upon. This is not a criticism, just that for orthodoxy to flourish in the West it needs some local flavour and grounding which is not evident to other Christians at the moment (let alone the wider public). At present the orthodox “revival” has more to do with recent immigration than swathes of people converting. Similarly among those who convert there is a sense of a detatchment from mainstream culture more reminiscent of anabaptists than the Desert Fathers – escaping with their family as Mr Kingsnorth has done rather than from their family as monks/nuns do. Perhaps this is the way for orthodoxy to work in a Protestant christian cultural context but I am not so sure. There is a definite feeling of a calvinist “elect” which is at odds with Orthodoxy’s universalism.
In another essay on Irish/British Christianity in the pre-conquest period the author gave a glimpse of another, more interesting future for Orthodoxy; of a re-enchanted landscape with connection to the people. That vision seems to have faded in favour of an easier, more Western and more worldly one.
Check out his substack, the Abbey of Misrule.
The shape of small-o orthodox Christianity that flows from our past in this place is not monolithic, not having a single name or path, and so it’s unlikely that the continuation of its flow into the future will look monolithic either. But it can still exist even though it might not have a label; parts of the CofE (miracle of miracles!) and baptists can still count as tributaries and the modern independent reformed city churches are nimble enough to contribute to the flow positively. Without a (big-o) Orthodox tradition, we must take what we can from what is available and attempt to follow where God leads. Surely God will provide.
Really appreciated that.
Now however I might rationalise some potential benefits I cannot return to the full faith of childhood. Yet each Xmas as I take an aged Mother to her Church, sit with her quietly, amongst a diverse community who share a faith while an almost timeless service is conducted, one feels that sense of ‘coming home’ to something one has long rejected. What on earth is it? Is it simple nostalgia and rose-tinted memories or is there something else pulling?
Perhaps it’s just that hour of calmness and reflection having a mediative, dare I say it ‘mindfulness’, impact? But maybe it’s a little more than that.
The Church has moved too. Not just do I look around and see a congregation from all parts of the world sharing an ancient tradition, but the teachings seem to be gradually shedding the elements the man from Nazareth never extolled. Perhaps it too, as the Author implies, is finding it’s way back slowly but surely.
There is enough wisdom in the world, thanks. Start with Marcus Aurelius and follow your nose from there. Whilst I have a renewed appreciation for the messages of some bible stories thanks to Jordan Peterson, it still isnât true and never was. I wonât sacrifice my intelligence for any sense of belonging and would not trust anyone who expected that from me. I havenât found a satisfactory explaination for why your family, friends and your contribution to society through your work isnât enough for people to make a good, happy and honest life.
Modern secular people see themselves as the apex of civilization and insight, with a touching belief in inexorable Western Progress. Now we all have presuppositions that we hold as axiomatic. But moderns, while glibly relativizing those of everyone else, are strangely oblivious to the relativity of their own.
Am I missing something here? I thought being a Christian meant believing that god sent his son to earth, was crucified and rose from the dead. I donât believe in either of those things ie god or rising from the dead. I do believe in much of what I regard as Christian philosophy eg love your neighbour etc. I think Christianity has evolved over the centuries to be the kind, tolerant state it is in the Western world. It certainly did not seem kind and tolerant in the past. Islam does not seem to have evolved in this way (& may have a detrimental effect on our Western society). Both this article & the earlier one by Ayeen Hirsi Ali ( why I am now a Christian) seem to suggest that Christianity is preferable because it is tolerant and âkinderâ or purely to fill a âspiritualâ need rather than a belief that it is actually true (eg walking on water, feeding the 5000 etc)
There are more interesting truths than objective truth said a former Bishop of Edinburgh.
This is where a lot of folk fall down before they start in trying to understand Christianity. The Bible isn’t necessarily literally factual, much of it is written in parables. Whilst there are many unegotiable elements, if you try to disprove any individual occurrence using modern scientific principles you aren’t going to get too far.
Leave modern rationalism at the door and you can start the journey whilst looking for deeper meaning.
The new religion of Wellbeing hasn’t abolished fast before the feast, merely inverted it. We binge in the month leading up to Christmas, then fast for a month afterwards (‘Dry January’).
Mr Kingsnorth seems happy with concept that, through Jesus, God has shown us the only true and difficult path we should all seek to follow. I confess I have some problems with that.
First, because Godâs chosen means of delivery of this message was so parochial and exclusive of others – indeed even 2000 years later it has not reached or been accepted by the great majority of the peoples of the world, who are still not Christian and show little sign of ever being such. .
Second, because Christianity avers that man is made in the image of God and that our God and King demands our explicit, unquestioning and continuous worship of Him and His truths as ârevealedâ to us in holy texts over 2000 years ago. Except for the purpose of restraining thought and promoting humility, why? Is that really the stance of a loving father?
Third and finally, I have a big problem with the very masculinity of the Christian God – and of so many other gods. If anything raises my suspicions it is that.
I truly wish there was a loving God who made sense of everything and afforded we mortals heavenly redemption, but I fear He is a man made myth. A myth used over the centuries, by those who would seek to govern us, in order to help bend us to their will, sometimes for good purpose but mostly not.
Notwithstanding all of the above , the Christian demand that we all should love one another is a very fine one, and I will pray again this Christmas Day that it could be so.
I found a rising need for a meta narrative for life that was greater than the survival of a species in the least painful way possible. Nietzsche said that in the absence of a heaven, Godâs shadow would persist in various, fervent political and social causes, all oriented towards producing some sort of utopia on earth. And wasnât he exactly right?
Maybe my search for a meta narrative was prompted by what the sociologist Reith recognised as an inbuilt demand to acknowledge the sacred. (Or words to that effect.) But whatever the reason, I found myself sticking at the same points as you and finally wondering if it was all just wishful thinking. As I was once a scientist of sorts, I came at it from a pragmatic direction. Is there any scientific indication that there could be a God? My greatest initial inspiration was John Lennox – professor in Mathematics at Oxford. He wrote a book – Godâs Undertaker, Has Science Buried God? It covers the question of a designer universe, the nature and scope of evolution, the origin of life ( we havenât a clue, read also the worldâs greatest nano chemist James Tour) and irreducible complexity etc. etc. And if that isnât enough you can get into the nature of consciousness and the quantum brain with physicist Sir Roger Penrose and anaesthesiologist Stuart Hammeroff.
I came to the conclusion that there is definitely something else at play in this universe. The nature of the something else?
Ah, well âŠ
That’s a well-argued case, to which i’d simply add: why should this “something else at play” be worshipped; or even more pertinently, need to be worshipped?
Acknowledged, yes; worshipped, on what grounds?
I agree
Simply from the point that we are and life is and that is a miracle. Gratitude to be life rather than not- life brings up worship for the power that has made that possible.
I think Mr Jackson makes a good point about gratitude but, yes, gratitude falls short of worship. However, this is an article on Christianity so worship is inevitably involved. I do agree with Mr Kingsnorth that there is evidence of a return to the type of spirituality that involves a connection with the numinous. However, people are not necessarily coming to it in the same way as he is. A lot of the younger generations are fans of people like Eckhart Tolle and Rupert Spira, and are taking a more Buddhistic route, which seems to involve connection but not worship. There is guidance on behaviour in the Buddhist path i.e. right thought, right action, generosity of spirit and a distinct effort to sideline the ego in search of âenlightenmentâ.
Eventually there is a feeling of a benevolent presence that knows and helps one make peace with the problems and the pain of existence. Though there is a concomitant sense of connection to all that is, thatâs not to say, Mr Webb, that there is any full comprehension of eternity because, as far as I know, there isnât. Our sons assure me of all of this but I seem to be a basic model that has to just plough through the books, getting excited that the quantum brain offers hope and scope for the survival of a consciousness. (For persistence of the individual consciousness I was impressed, and not a little surprised, by Jim B. Tuckers Return to Life. Dr. Tucker is the associate Professor of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia.)
Thank you. I am more or less with you Glynis – and maybe we Earthly primates are the only ones thinking about this stuff – but somehow I doubt we are unique in the Universe – and that is when I bump into my difficulty in comprehending eternity. Maybe we just have an accept somethings are and always will be beyond our comprehension.
“Third and finally, I have a big problem with the very masculinity of the Christian God â and of so many other gods. If anything raises my suspicions it is that.”
Jesus elevated the status of women and children in a society in which both were ignored or treated as second class citizens. He reached out to women who were in need and “unclean”, just one of many examples:
ââMark⏠â7:25â-âŹ26⏠& 30 In fact, as soon as she heard about him, a woman whose little daughter was possessed by an impure spirit came and fell at his feet. The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
She went home and found her child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.
Women were the first witnesses to the Risen Christ:
ââMatthew⏠â28:8â-âŹ10⏠So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. âGreetings,â he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, âDo not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.â
Other examples:
ââââLuke⏠â18:15â-âŹ16⏠âPeople were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. But Jesus called the children to him and said, âLet the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
Matthew⏠â23:37⏠ââJerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.
Patricia, Thank you. I do appreciate that Jesus treated women well and gave them proper respect but my point rather is that in the Christian religion God is clearly male – and it confuses me that God is given a sexual orientation. Surely the supreme being which created man and woman is neither of these. Isnât this an example of men making God in their own image? Jesus of course had to have a gender whilst he lived in earth – but why God?
Christianity doesn’t believe God to be masculine – but it does believe that we should refer to God as masculine.
Otherwise we would end up worshipping the Earth Goddess – which is a stagnant, cruel faith.
God’s wife is Sophia.
What about a spiritual / cosmological approach which avoids the easily disprovable notions of, on one side, the all powerful creator God which cares for humans and, on the other side, the science-worshiping atheists who deny the existence of anything not accepted by the majority of scientists this month AND any reported experiences they don’t have themselves?
Souls are in. So are near death experiences as being pretty much what they seem to be. Likewise the existence of things which share our time and space but which are difficult or impossible to discern with current experimental techniques, but which explain our brain and body’s connection to whatever souls etc. are made of. ESP and psychokinesis are seen as evidence for linkages to that stuff of astral bodies, souls etc.
So far, this is compatible with monotheistic religions, but they are obviously false for numerous reasons, not least that any such all-powerful creator God which really wanted humans to understand, and even worship, Him, She or It, would do a much better job of enabling us to learn what we need to do this than the current religions provide: a perplexing jumble of scripture, prophets, the occasional savior and reports from people having genuine mystical experiences of the other side, but which they try to understand and describe within the confines of whatever religious framework they grew up with. This leads to thousands to millions of incompatible interpretations, despite the sincere efforts of all to find the truth by such means.
The high but repeated unfulfilled hopes and expectations monotheists have of their God lead to the need for end of days. This was first reasonably fully developed by the Zoroastrians and then adopted by some Jews Jesus learned from. Long experience of underperforming God leads to the certainty of Him implementing an an apocalyptic end of the world, where all is made good forever, to make up for his heart-wrenching failure to help those who most need it, no matter how hard they pray. Coming real soon now . . .
With the atheists running a mile or two one way and the mass spiritual marketplace folks running the other, aghast at the suggestion that their lifelong fantasy of a personal relationship with the super-father Big Boss is wishful thinking, how many people are left? Its not difficult to extend the framework to recognise prayer and numerous spiritual experiences, including occasions of profound illumination and feelings of Love and Oneness with All, to envisage that we all – and surely, in degrees, non-human animals – have souls and so have kind of existence after our physical bodies kark it – with us all actually being part of a broader, likely well beyond Earth, distributed, rather than centralised and hierarchical, non-physical and so (from our current perspective) spiritual network or whatever. (85 words, but who’s counting?)
This accounts for numerous genuine experiences, but this broad spiritual network or whatever is not the creator of the Universe. It does not have the power to intervene. It responds to prayer as best it can and can guide us if we listen. How it emerged is as much of a mystery as how *anything* emerged.
There’s no obvious reason why this should be worshiped – its something we are part of. It is not a “magisterial power” many people are so keen to have on their side. (What is it with all these creator of the Universe Gods expecting us to prostate themselves in worship?)
Why is there anything at all? We will never know. Time, dimensions, forces, energy and energy congealing as matter? We have no idea whatsoever how these came into being, nor any clue as to what could have given rise to them. Some aspects of standard physics – the wavelike properties of matter – while being easy to describe mathematically, are extremely hard to understand even regarding what it _is_, let alone what might give rise to it. This is the most complex and beguiling aspect of the known physical world. It gives rise to resonances which cause electrons to settle into what can most easily be described as stable orbitals. This leads to atoms and molecules as an emergent property of this wavelike stuff, electromagnetism and the protons and electrons. The same mechanisms surely give rise to nuclei and to the fundamental particles of matter as energy somehow ties itself into knots.
Profound mysteries about origins are no barrier to tentatively hypothesising the existence of anything at all, since we are have no hope of understanding the real origins of any fundamental aspect of the well-known physical world.
This doesn’t rule out the idea of a creator God. (The wavelike properties of matter are an argument for a particularly inventive such creator.) But any such God obviously doesn’t care a rat’s arse about humans or any other species, individually or collectively (the dinosaurs were having a perfectly good time) – and we would still have the problem of what could give rise to that God.
The Big Bang Theory is a creation myth prompted by the inability to explain the redshift of light from distant galaxies except by Doppler shift. Such redshift in sparse plasma is not so hard to understand when we forget about photons and imagine light as classical waves, coupling some of their energy and so momentum to electrons, and the electrons not giving it all back as the light passes, since that temporary momentum contributes to them colliding with protons (this is all in the inter galaxy cluster plasma, about one electron and one proton per cubic metre, moving with temperatures in the hundreds of millions of K) and so carrying some of that momentum in different directions as well as giving some of it to the proton. Physicists can’t imagine any such tired light mechanism with photons (particles, packets of energy, quanta) – but photons are a mistake.
The fact that the redshift of light from galaxies correlates roughly with their apparent distance, as inferred as from their observed brightness, indicates that either a broad tired light mechanism in the inter cluster medium or the BBT’s Doppler shift is responsible. The fact that quasar inferred distances, from observed brightnesses, does NOT correlate with redshift shows that a lot of this redshift is happening at a greater rate per unit distance in the more concentrated plasma near the quasar. This reasonable argument for the existence of tired light redshift is one of many disproofs of the BBT which astrophysicists should pay more attention to.
Morality can be part of all this – the distributed spiritual realm is not all sweetness and light. We can try to be in accord with what we judge to be the good part, broadly compatible with the most generous of Jesus’ moral and social teachings and examples, with some human limits regarding turning the other cheek to serial killers. But there’s no need for team Good on the other side to be a centralised entity with a personality and hierarchy, any more than its is among sentient creatures here in our physical lives. There’s surely bad-egg influences out there and the trick is to discern the character of whatever we might imagine is whispering to or urging us within our own mind.
This rather undramatic hypothesis is not of much interest to most folks, who are accustomed to Big God, with a booming voice, telling us all what to do. There’s no obvious need for ritual and none for a church. Too much doubt and nuance for most people.
Sounds like you want a God who is just like you. At that point then, who is the god?
Steve, I really donât want that (I truly know how awful that would be!) – but my point is that I sense that, in Christianity, mankind has created a god in manâs image. This is not to say there is not some supra natural power – but that I have doubts that it is like us – and certainly regarding sexual orientation.
When the Office for National Statistics released the Census 2021 data on ethnicity, religion, national identity and language, one of the headline-grabbing findings was that England and Wales are no longer majority Christian countries, with a fall of 13 percentage points â from 59% in 2011 to 46% in 2021 â in those claiming a commitment to Christianity.
Is this really a fall? When I was young and had to fill a form about my religion I used to say C of E, just so I didn’t leave an embarrassing gap. Now I leave the gap but without the embarrassment.
In the 2021 census people magically dropped English as an identity from the 2011 census to become British just because they changed the order of the tick boxes.
In the last census, online,I a non churchgoer ticked the Christian box as it was the closest to where I am,my friend then with no access to WiFi did her form on my tablet. A regular church attender,she ticked the “no religion” box. Doesn’t that say a lot.
In fact it does. You’re my new favorite poster here.
Merry Christmas, or other Holiday Cheer.
Well, it certainly raises the question why people like you two bother to participate in a census.
If Joseph had had the same attitude he wouldn’t have gone to Bethlehem. Interesting to consider how different the world might have turned out.
Interesting Spengler quote from Ferguson – the revival he saw coming was not the cosy Oxford world of C.S Lewis but a world of the Caesars reborn
âSpengler is now seldom read; his prose is too turgid, his debt to Nietzsche and Wagner too large, his influence on the National Socialists too obvious. Yet with his idiosyncratic seasonal theory of cultural rise and fall, he expressed better than almost anyone that inter-war revulsion against all that had been achieved by the West before 1914. âThe last centuryâ, he wrote, âwas the winter of the West, the victory of materialism and scepticism, of socialism, parliamentarianism, and money. But in this century blood and instinct will regain their rights against the power of money and intellect. The era of individualism, liberalism and democracy, of humanitarianism and freedom, is nearing its end. The masses will accept with resignation the victory of the Caesars, the strong men, and will obey them.â This was not a bad predictionâ
Ferguson, Niall. The War of the World: History’s Age of Hatred (p. 867). Penguin Books Ltd. Kindle Edition.
âour whole culture has been trailing down a dead-end road since the Enlightenment.â What?
I loved this piece! I became a Christian when I was 33⊠i think heâs right. I see a lot of the youngsters in their twenties and thirties looking for spiritual meaningâŠthey may call it different things, usually the universe or as in AA a higher power but they are also arriving at churches wanting a sense of belonging and purpose that a purely material life can never give them. I believe as Paul does that we humans all have a spiritual dimensionâŠ
While I fully agree with Mr Kingsnorth about the primacy of the ‘inner warfare’, he seems to be suggesting in his enthusiasm for the Desert Fathers and asceticism that Christians should be be withdrawn from this world and take no part in, for example, the ‘culture war’.
It’s certainly important not to fall into the trap of making religion a subordinate instrument in promoting some secular purpose or ideology, but the biblical picture seems to be of this world as a battleground between good and evil in which the ‘children of light’ are certainly called upon to be fighting the powers of darkness. And that must surely mean actively opposing things like wokery and ‘cultural Marxism’ (judged evil by their fruits).
Christianity is profoundly material in its commitments and outworking. God took on our human condition.
I do feel that the author is correct in that we are coming round to more religiosity in modern times but do not agree that this is necessarily positive. It seems to me that religion is a bug (or maybe a feature, depending who you ask) of human intellect.
My now wife and I had to attend church in the lead up to our wedding and sadly she feels there is some value in continuation of attendance now we are married. The congregation are lovely and, typically there are many wealthy types there but I am amazed at the delusional stories they tell each other about how they found god, how he talks to the them and the blind acceptance of arcane rituals and stories, many co-opted from earlier pagan rituals 2000+ years ago. I am in no doubt they genuinely believe this stuff despite obvious intellect.
I feel like the boy in the Emperor has no Clothes, except if I pointed out how nonsensical it all was, no one would listen. I have therefore come to accept that:
a) I am in a small minority who does not think particularly religiously
b) I am however not entirely immune to religious thinking myself (my faith in humanity, science, free markets and speech could be classed as such)
c) I must constantly guard myself from exceptionalism but it is hard given that most people around seem to exhibit a kind of mass psychosis
I wonder, if and when we create a true AGI, if its brain is modelled after our own…if it will either invent its own religion or accept one of ours. Perhaps religion is the unfortunate side effect of intelligence and the enlightenment dream is but a dream.
I thought Klara and the Sun dealt with this very well. Is the robot’s self created religion a bug or a feature?
Cheers for the tip off, hadn’t realised Kazuo Ishiguro had done this one. Will check it out, thanks!
Did your wife understand that you were an atheist when she married you? How can you be compatible with such a divide?
Does your God ever change his action in any way as a result of your prayer? Was He doing the wrong thing before He heard you? Does He do the wrong thing maliciously, or does He not know what you know?
Consider the possibility that it is the very act of prayer which changes you. God does not need our prayers, but we need to pray. Prayer is not a transaction, Humanity is not merely Homo Sapiens but also “Homo Adorans” .
You have to find out for yourself.
Praying isnât about trying to change Godâs mind, so that his will aligns with ours. It is quite the opposite.
Your lack of belief is no less than another form of religion.
There are dozens of religions, and I assume that you don’t follow all of them. You doubt lots of religions, and I doubt one more than you do.
It wasn’t profound when Ricky Gervais said it, and it doesn’t get better on repetition.
Doubting is easy, skepticism is easy, cynicism is easy. But they end in meaninglessness and nihilism, if you have any intellectual integrity at all. Nothing means anything, nothing has value, nothing is worth preserving. I defy you or anyone to defend a contrary claim.
In 1952 Albert Einstein was asked by a Princeton doctoral student what was left in the world for original dissertation research? Einstein replied: âFind out about prayer.â
You mistakenly assume assume all prayer is about requests to God. Prayer can be praising the Lord and thanking Him for s many blessings and mercies.
I am a fan of Kingsnorth. However I donât really get his religious prescription. It seems to be quite narrow and personal, whereas perhaps what we need is something more socially cohesive.
How did religion work out for us in the past?
It certainly unified societies, unfortunately in the service of monotheistic capatilism that we spread over the surface of the globe and delivered us to here. Christianity would need to be heavily repurposed to meet my needs. There is so much very painful baggage that for me cannot be simply overlooked .look at the countries that are theocracies now like Iran.
It seems to me that religion developed alongside and enmeshed in the state that adopted it .
Is Kingsnorths religion just another lifestyle choice?
Or is belief in a divine creator and an afterlife an evolved trait in humans. Extant perhaps because it confers resilience in times of hardship?
Christendom existed longer than capitalism has. Historical Orthodoxy for 1000 years before the Great Schism, and then in the East since. Capitalism, about 400.
“Christianity would need to be heavily repurposed to meet my needs.”
It already has been; that’s the problem.
Look, the history of Christianity is full of unseemly events. But it has a great explanation for those too. So the question is then what better story we have on offer. Not in theory, but in practice.
Beautifully written, beautifully argued, and true. Thank you sir.
Welcome home Mr Kingsnorth. Happy Christmas!
Outstanding piece. So many bits that could be quoted back with personal insights. Like other comments I enjoy Ayaan Hirsi Aliâs articles but do not recall another by Mr. Kingsnorthâs standing out so much as this did. Bravo!…and Merry Christmas!
Also, Iâve never been able to believe in something that evidence and reason donât support, regardless of whether Iâd like to believe it because it makes me feel good, or because it would make it easier for me to find friends.
When it comes to Christianity or any other religion centred on belief in a benevolent, omnipotent creator God, the problem of evil has always been the ultimate stumbling block. Theodicy has been such a fruitless exercise, it seems to me. The arguments that many lave lauded as the most sophisticated or the most convincing have always fallen flat, and depend on at least one weak assumption that thereâs no reason to accept.
In sum, Iâve always been far more comfortable in simply saying âI donât knowâ if thereâs no convincing evidence or argument for something being true. I just canât choose or pretend to believe in something. Belief, to me, is a reaction, not a choice.
Sometimes believing in untrue stories allow people to accomplish things (both ‘good’ and ‘bad’) that would otherwise not have been possible. Therefore do these false ideas do not have value?
Evolution does not select for the ability to view reality as it is. Seeing falsehoods often confers evolutionary advantage. See Donald Hoffman for more info:
https://www.ted.com/talks/donald_hoffman_do_we_see_reality_as_it_is?language=en
Everything has a place and a use, both truthhood and falsehood.
When it comes to belief, the value of the story just doesnât come into play. Same goes for evolutionary advantage or lack thereof.
If I hear an account of how a crime was committed, for example, and if believing and saying that a certain person did it would make me feel better because I donât like that person, and convicting that person of the crime would support some apparently beneficial social or political narrative going on at the moment, I just wouldnât believe in their guilt – in fact, couldnât believe it – if I was aware of exculpatory evidence. And if I once believed that person was guilty because all the nice people said so, but I became aware of exculpatory evidence, I would stop believing in that personâs guilt, even though itâs evolutionarily advantageous to keep believing in it because, say, it makes me part of the more successful and numerous in-group. I wouldnât choose to stop believing in that personâs guilt, it would happen spontaneously.
Richards Dawkins has stated that he doe not believe in anything he can’t see, hear or touch. Yet he admitted some time ago in a Sunday Times article that he believes in love.
Rather illogical, surely?
“Faith sees the invisible, believes the incredible, receives the impossible.”
And that’s been my experience since becoming a Christian 22 years ago.
“Iâve never been able to believe in something that evidence and reason donât support”
Of course you do. Everyone does. Everyone has axiomatic beliefs. You’re just not used to thinking of yours in that way.
I get your point – I could have clarified that I was talking about beliefs associated with the big truth claims, or systems of belief of the sort Kingsnorth is talking about. And when it comes to reason and evidence, like all of us, I do of course rely quite heavily on secondhand reason and evidence in areas where I have little to no expertise, such as medicine, physics, various technologies, etc.
But I have long been in the habit (which made me a very annoying child with my endless questions, as my long-suffering father could attest) of assessing my axiomatic beliefs, but as with everyone, there are so many that I’m quite sure I wonât be able to interrogate them all. So my statement was based on the reason-and-evidence approach as habit, not a perfectly applied principle.
Stimulating. But surely we should focus here on the New hyper secular Equalitarian/Progressive Religion that – 30 years in – is debasing our culture and society? Not the Old Faiths which have rotten away, the death knell of the CofE being their adherence to State lockdown law & general knee bending to progressives. The post 90s Progressive/Equality Faith has quasi religious roots in communisty Christianity. Its arrogant followers behave like the Calvinist ‘Elect’ – seeing themselves as morally pure and the rest of us (those hostile to Net Zero, BLM, Islamist rage, DEI positive discrimination, mass migration/open borders) totally unworthy of redemption, worthy only of contempt and hatred as we saw in the Brexit Civil War. This is a new State Religion, its human rights laws pumping out the poisonous virus of a new Me not We narcissistic culture of grievance, victimhood and entitlement. These Young Doctors who are letting the sick suffer this Xmas are kin to the cold eyed Red Guards of China 68, drunk on their warped sense of entitlement moral virtue as well as greed. Social media has reinforced fearful groupthinking devotion to DEI, CRT Climate Change Palestine amongst our captured craven political and cultural Elite – the new Hollow Men/Women. We exist like the Soviets in the 1980s in a societal Traumazone, teetering on edge, needing something Big to shake off this appalling new faith. But what might that be??
Reading the comments I am reminded of what the ancients intuited and the Age of Reason refused to know, the story of the Tower of Babel, not as source of languages, but rather the consequence of faith in oneâs reason. It is hard to remember that from a reasoned perspective the human is a relatively fur-less bipedal primate convinced that the gland in his scull, given time and effort, will grasp everything.
I agree with so many points in this article and disagree with many as well. For example â He turned up as a barefoot carpenter, not a proconsul, and he had nothing at all to say about politics.â Except to render unto Caesar, or âthe government is on his shouldersâ, and more. But I donât want to see Christians return to cowering when asked about their faith. The Scopes Trial and Darwin did more to silence the church hammering us with so-called reason and so-called science as if science and reason were devoid of faith. We need to bring our faith out of the closet and NOT back into caves in the desert.
Yes, when Jesus said, “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s,” he forever limited the reach of Caesar.
It was a profoundly political statement. Empires rise and fall and they have claims on us to the means for the maintenance of at least minimal standards of justice. But they have no ultimate authority. God can always say, No.