Kind of agree. The last one I was at featured a flotilla of girls with their breasts sawn off. While everyone was cheering at them, I had to turn away in horror.
I confess that I read this just past midnight last night, and half asleep, felt as if I’d fallen down an extraordinarily articulate, fact-laden, esoteric wormhole.
Where Andrew got the idea for, never mind the information to pen such an article is quite beyond me. But it gets my prize for the most unexpected piece of writing I’ve ever seen on Unherd.
I also commend all of his admirable work on Free Speech Nation.
Steve Murray
6 months ago
I always enjoy Andrew Doyle’s literary-laden excursions into the esoteric, or in this instance, the eroto-esoteric. There’s usually a term i’d not (erm) come across before; in this article it’s “talionic”. And, i’m now reassured that if someone is referred to (as we English are wont to do) as a “little b****r” * that it derives from the Anglo-Norman “bougre” with a wider meaning than might have been thought more recently.
How the author finds his way towards researching these articles is known only to himself; i’ll be buggered if i know how he does it.
*Once again, asterisks provided by kind courtesy of Unherd.
Teeny bit puzzled why “b****r” needed to have UnHerd-supplied asterisks, and yet “buggered” did not.
…and now even more puzzled, since exactly the s*me thing ha**ened to me,
If the person he “used to satisfy his lusts” was allowed to stay on the ship it suggests it may have been rape, the possibility of which would change the tone of sympathy somewhat.
A very intersting point. Well meaning writers and thinkers in this aspect of our culture seem to have an unfortunate habit of regularly choosing shoddy martyrs and unworthy exemplars.
Even so, with reference to the article, Dante never uses the term ‘Sodomite’ or ‘Sodomita’ in the Divine Comedy but instead refers inexactly to the ‘sin of Sodom’. Those suffering in the seventh circle of Hell (named The Circle of Violence) are those who accompanied their lust with violence. it is sodomitical rapists that are in the seventh circle. So perhaps I am reluctant ‘spare a thought’ for them.
For the sake of context, Dante puts incontinent heterosexuals and adulterers in the second circle of Hell.
Relatively few people read on from Inferno the Purgatorio where you will find another group of sinners who’s ‘Sodomy’ is actually in the process of absolution. And these individuals are guilty of a non-violent excess or misdirection of love.
Here Dante meets and identifies his esteemed forerunner Guido Guinizelli and lauds him with the highest praise, calling him ‘my father’.
So for Dante, it seems, (and I have only read the Divine Comedy in English) the sin which warrants the Seventh Circle of Hell is in fact one of lust acompanied by violence.
You make an excellent point here. Given the dearth of verifiable facts in this case, it is wise to reserve judgement. If it was consensual, why was the other person not also marooned, either with their co-sodomite or perhaps somewhere else if the captain was being particularly stern in his judgement and didn’t mind wasting time finding another deserted island? Perhaps it happened in a port and was only later discovered? Perhaps it was something told in confidence to a friend, a tale of something that had happened years ago and this false friend then reported it to the captain? Or perhaps as you say, he raped the handsome cabin boy. All are equally possible. Rape would certainly explain the harshness of the punishment. Given what he likely suffered on the island, he would have been better off had they tossed him into the ocean to drown.
Or it may have been the captain covering his …arse….
UnHerd Reader
6 months ago
I think I might know where the inspiration for this. He is trolling someone who has fallen vicitm to Gone Girl type of revenge for cheating on his girlfriend. He tells us in Par 9, about 1/3 through, that he is not realy talking about ‘Sodomy’, and that he could be talksng about infidelity. Par 11, that it is not a straightforward cautaionary tale about sex between men. He branches of into prostitution and how the homosexual does not produce. The woman who plays the prank in Belrin is allegedly a prostitute, with the help of lawers, friends and council workers, she convinces tha man that she has had his child.
I had heard about women targeteding Biritsh guys in Berlin, but I actually know this guy. He happend to publish a plea to family and friends on facebook just yesterday and he reads Unheard. They are trolling him. He told me this has happend before but I did not believe him. He claims he did not cheated on anyone and after years of harassment the women had to sexually assult him to pull of her ploy. However he knows that, ‘some people are natuarally incredulous and will pay littel regard to his narrative’ (Par 4), dressing up fact as ficiton. He hardly left his flat after 2 years after the alleged sexual assault ‘removed himself from society… to live out his days in despar’. (Par 2) However, when he tried to socialized after Covid he was attakced in bars.
There is a group chat on which bartenders and baristas announce his arrival and they spike his beer to show he is uwelcome. He is offered 1 bedroom flat, thinking he is lucky to jump the que of locals who wait years for a flat, literally hundreds of people turn up viewing. He is taken to a private viewing after his first viewing, and is given a flat were he is drugged, while going out to bars and cafe’s is not a solution. He is thus literally left “searching for drinkable water” (Par 6).
However, all his friends gas-light him about what is going on. Some friends he has not seen for years play along when he returns from Berlin, even if they do not spike him. He is guided to a flat via Spareroom.com and Gum tree where he will be harassed on returning to the UK. Most impressive of all, it is in the cathcment area of a mental health practice where the studen docter knows who he is before he walks in. He tells him everything that happened to him in Berlin did not happen. He tells him he will not get another appointment unless he agrees to something for anxiety, The docoter then prescribes him for something for delusion. Thereafter, if he collapses in a work place or in a bar and goes to A and E, they do not bother to blood test him when he says he has been spiked by a hate group on Telegram. They see his diagnoses, as will the police.
The group has a free hand to pspike this guys water supply in his flat while he is out, or spike him at work. His friends tell him that his stories of ‘devilsh spirits’ taking vengeance on him’ are probably halucinations brought about by severe dehydration… and perhaps projections of guilt’ (Par 14). The guy has claimed on his Substack (interpocula) that this group chat where the abuse is documented with photos serves to ‘warn readers’ and have amoralising impact (Par15)
The last sentence is ambiguous to be fair but perhaps he means to say that he hopes this particular sodamite lved another day’, but and not the real life sodomite suffering abuse by this type of Gone Girl Feminism.
It seems a strange coincidence that he has published this article about a sodamite punished the day after this guy asks for help on Facebook. Don’t you think?
Witkowski’s sketch of the ‘Punishment of Sodomy’ in the Sistine Chapel.
Apparently the paint had faded, otherwise, as an art academic said ‘it looks like the punishment for sodomy, appears to be errr, more sodomy.’
Yes, whatever your sins were in life you will experience beyond toleration as punishment. Given what many gay men willingly endure one dreads to imagine their Tartarean torments.
Thor Albro
6 months ago
Maybe it was sodomy with a goat? I believe I recall in one of Patrick O’Brian’s great Master & Commander books a sailor is secretly allowed to “escape” to an uninhabited island rather than be hanged on hoard for suspected intimacy with a pig or goat. I believe the term “buggery” was used.
Yes, that’s understandable. Being gay is fine, and few people have real prejudices. But Pride Marches deserve retribution along Biblical lines.
Agreed. They don’t come more gay than I, but nothing would induce me to condone a Pride March.
Kind of agree. The last one I was at featured a flotilla of girls with their breasts sawn off. While everyone was cheering at them, I had to turn away in horror.
What self-respecting homo goes to a Pride March ?
All those homo looking for a vir.
Any self-respecting homo worth his chaps has one or two oven-ready viri tied up handily in the basement.
Would have fitted right in to the Coleherne …
I confess that I read this just past midnight last night, and half asleep, felt as if I’d fallen down an extraordinarily articulate, fact-laden, esoteric wormhole.
Where Andrew got the idea for, never mind the information to pen such an article is quite beyond me. But it gets my prize for the most unexpected piece of writing I’ve ever seen on Unherd.
I also commend all of his admirable work on Free Speech Nation.
I always enjoy Andrew Doyle’s literary-laden excursions into the esoteric, or in this instance, the eroto-esoteric. There’s usually a term i’d not (erm) come across before; in this article it’s “talionic”. And, i’m now reassured that if someone is referred to (as we English are wont to do) as a “little b****r” * that it derives from the Anglo-Norman “bougre” with a wider meaning than might have been thought more recently.
How the author finds his way towards researching these articles is known only to himself; i’ll be buggered if i know how he does it.
*Once again, asterisks provided by kind courtesy of Unherd.
That word had me puzzled as well, but then I remembered that it was referring to the law of talion (also of biblical memory).
Teeny bit puzzled why “b****r” needed to have UnHerd-supplied asterisks, and yet “buggered” did not.
…and now even more puzzled, since exactly the s*me thing ha**ened to me,
Yep, it’s a right buggeration.
Sod it!
If the person he “used to satisfy his lusts” was allowed to stay on the ship it suggests it may have been rape, the possibility of which would change the tone of sympathy somewhat.
A very intersting point. Well meaning writers and thinkers in this aspect of our culture seem to have an unfortunate habit of regularly choosing shoddy martyrs and unworthy exemplars.
Even so, with reference to the article, Dante never uses the term ‘Sodomite’ or ‘Sodomita’ in the Divine Comedy but instead refers inexactly to the ‘sin of Sodom’. Those suffering in the seventh circle of Hell (named The Circle of Violence) are those who accompanied their lust with violence. it is sodomitical rapists that are in the seventh circle. So perhaps I am reluctant ‘spare a thought’ for them.
For the sake of context, Dante puts incontinent heterosexuals and adulterers in the second circle of Hell.
Relatively few people read on from Inferno the Purgatorio where you will find another group of sinners who’s ‘Sodomy’ is actually in the process of absolution. And these individuals are guilty of a non-violent excess or misdirection of love.
Here Dante meets and identifies his esteemed forerunner Guido Guinizelli and lauds him with the highest praise, calling him ‘my father’.
So for Dante, it seems, (and I have only read the Divine Comedy in English) the sin which warrants the Seventh Circle of Hell is in fact one of lust acompanied by violence.
You make an excellent point here. Given the dearth of verifiable facts in this case, it is wise to reserve judgement. If it was consensual, why was the other person not also marooned, either with their co-sodomite or perhaps somewhere else if the captain was being particularly stern in his judgement and didn’t mind wasting time finding another deserted island? Perhaps it happened in a port and was only later discovered? Perhaps it was something told in confidence to a friend, a tale of something that had happened years ago and this false friend then reported it to the captain? Or perhaps as you say, he raped the handsome cabin boy. All are equally possible. Rape would certainly explain the harshness of the punishment. Given what he likely suffered on the island, he would have been better off had they tossed him into the ocean to drown.
Maybe the other “person” was a goat. Or did sodomy not include bestiality?
Or it may have been the captain covering his …arse….
I think I might know where the inspiration for this. He is trolling someone who has fallen vicitm to Gone Girl type of revenge for cheating on his girlfriend. He tells us in Par 9, about 1/3 through, that he is not realy talking about ‘Sodomy’, and that he could be talksng about infidelity. Par 11, that it is not a straightforward cautaionary tale about sex between men. He branches of into prostitution and how the homosexual does not produce. The woman who plays the prank in Belrin is allegedly a prostitute, with the help of lawers, friends and council workers, she convinces tha man that she has had his child.
I had heard about women targeteding Biritsh guys in Berlin, but I actually know this guy. He happend to publish a plea to family and friends on facebook just yesterday and he reads Unheard. They are trolling him. He told me this has happend before but I did not believe him. He claims he did not cheated on anyone and after years of harassment the women had to sexually assult him to pull of her ploy. However he knows that, ‘some people are natuarally incredulous and will pay littel regard to his narrative’ (Par 4), dressing up fact as ficiton. He hardly left his flat after 2 years after the alleged sexual assault ‘removed himself from society… to live out his days in despar’. (Par 2) However, when he tried to socialized after Covid he was attakced in bars.
There is a group chat on which bartenders and baristas announce his arrival and they spike his beer to show he is uwelcome. He is offered 1 bedroom flat, thinking he is lucky to jump the que of locals who wait years for a flat, literally hundreds of people turn up viewing. He is taken to a private viewing after his first viewing, and is given a flat were he is drugged, while going out to bars and cafe’s is not a solution. He is thus literally left “searching for drinkable water” (Par 6).
However, all his friends gas-light him about what is going on. Some friends he has not seen for years play along when he returns from Berlin, even if they do not spike him. He is guided to a flat via Spareroom.com and Gum tree where he will be harassed on returning to the UK. Most impressive of all, it is in the cathcment area of a mental health practice where the studen docter knows who he is before he walks in. He tells him everything that happened to him in Berlin did not happen. He tells him he will not get another appointment unless he agrees to something for anxiety, The docoter then prescribes him for something for delusion. Thereafter, if he collapses in a work place or in a bar and goes to A and E, they do not bother to blood test him when he says he has been spiked by a hate group on Telegram. They see his diagnoses, as will the police.
The group has a free hand to pspike this guys water supply in his flat while he is out, or spike him at work. His friends tell him that his stories of ‘devilsh spirits’ taking vengeance on him’ are probably halucinations brought about by severe dehydration… and perhaps projections of guilt’ (Par 14). The guy has claimed on his Substack (interpocula) that this group chat where the abuse is documented with photos serves to ‘warn readers’ and have amoralising impact (Par15)
The last sentence is ambiguous to be fair but perhaps he means to say that he hopes this particular sodamite lved another day’, but and not the real life sodomite suffering abuse by this type of Gone Girl Feminism.
It seems a strange coincidence that he has published this article about a sodamite punished the day after this guy asks for help on Facebook. Don’t you think?
I don’t know where to begin…
Talion gone awry :
Witkowski’s sketch of the ‘Punishment of Sodomy’ in the Sistine Chapel.
Apparently the paint had faded, otherwise, as an art academic said ‘it looks like the punishment for sodomy, appears to be errr, more sodomy.’
Yes, whatever your sins were in life you will experience beyond toleration as punishment. Given what many gay men willingly endure one dreads to imagine their Tartarean torments.
Maybe it was sodomy with a goat? I believe I recall in one of Patrick O’Brian’s great Master & Commander books a sailor is secretly allowed to “escape” to an uninhabited island rather than be hanged on hoard for suspected intimacy with a pig or goat. I believe the term “buggery” was used.