Dear Mr Sunak
Please read the whole of this article, especially the penultimate paragraph.
Peta Seel
6 months ago
I’m with you all the way here. I’m 75 and have been smoking since I was 18. One day, like everyone else, I am going to die and however it happens I will still be as dead as anyone else. I look around today’s world and I think that I am not really too fussed about when.
Madas A. Hatter
7 months ago
I stopped smoking and took up vaping, which I enjoy. And the same bossy boots tell me every day, “You can’t smoke here.” The second hand effects of vaping are exactly those of boiling a kettle. I have read many articles saying what undesirable substances are in vape fumes but not one (and I have looked hard) providing any quantitative information. Given that it is now trivial to detect substances at a concentration of one part per billion I see through those articles as the work of wowsers. Let’s be honest: many, many people simply object to others enjoying themselves. I’m with Hockney. They can all fock off.
Why would you expect any quantitative information ?
It will take 20 – 30 years minimum for any adverse effects from vaping (like increased incidence of cancers) to appear.
Currently, the long term effects of smoking cost the NHS and associated social care (tax payers) anything from £ 2 – 17 billion / year depending on how you do the calculations.
I have no problem with people choosing their method of death as long as the medical consequences of their addiction is paid for out of their own pockets and that means privately in the UK. Your lifetime NI contribtions if you end up with diabetes, COPD, cancer etc (i.e. chronic diseases due to smoking) don’t go anywhere near covering your actual medical costs.
Ah the costs to the NHS argument. That’s alcohol in the bin too. Red meat? Tut tut tut! I’m sure that cheese is worse than vaping so let’s get rid of that too. As David Hockney may say, f**k off!
“The cost to the NHS” argument used against smokers is a gross impertinence! To talk about NI contributions is to misunderstand the contribution which smokers contribute to the national exchequer. The cost of the packet of 20 cigarettes I smoke is currently £13 in the UK. Two years ago I was in Madrid where the very same cigarettes cost 4 Euros. This comparison alone shows the outrageous tax burden which has been heaped onto British smokers.
Dear Elaine,
I hope to goodness you’re neither a drinker, nor overweight, and that you take appropriate exercise to avoid ever getting a bad back, or needing a hip replacement. Otherwise your opposition to smoking on this basis (cost to the NHS) would make you a hypocrite.
As people below have pointed out, smokers have paid for any extra medical care they might need through a lifetime of exorbitant taxes on fags.
And if it is true that smokers are dying early as a result, then that’ll save the exchequer a ton on pensions, and indeed on medical care for the years that they’re not alive.
Simon Neale
7 months ago
“In next week’s ‘UnHerd jobswap’, Jonathan Sumption has a go at painting some young lads in a swimming pool.”
Roland Jeffery
7 months ago
Smokers—like alcoholics—smell bad and are un-kissable. Which makes them socially isolated and even more likely to turn to nicotine and alcohol as a cheer-me-up.
Its always sad when a friend succumbs to an addiction that marginalises them. When it happens to a great artist the art often benefits, directly or indirectly; such are the personal costs of the creative life from which the rest of us benefit.
Friendly discouragement is a human kindness that David Hockney seems unlikely to heed. He seems untypically clear-headed about the risks and pay-offs. Whereas most addicts are prisoners of their addiction because they fell through the trap door by misjudgement or happenstance.
David does wonderful paintings.
He is lucky he has the calm outlook and physical constitution to survive ok as a smoker.
But its a horrible smelly habit that was imposed on human beings. Its not a natural thing to do and is highly addictive. David is addicted.
Continuing to object to being told it’s an unhealthy thing to promote is just a waste of energy. Nobody is preveting him choosing to smoke. No law against stating the truth, bossy or not.
I have watched someone die from lung cancer.
Martin Goodfellow
29 days ago
If you’ve been smoking as long as Mr Hockney, you’ve no doubt forgotten how good it can feel not to smoke. My own experience tells me the latter is preferable. I’ve also seen my parents and two brothers die of lung cancer, caused by smoking. At times, they all justified smoking using the same arguments as Mr Hockney. I don’t consider myself a do-gooder, or ‘bossy boots’ for saying smoking isn’t a good thing. Bans work best, however, if they are self-imposed. Discouraging smoking, though, is better than encouraging it.
Roderick MacDonald
29 days ago
It’s not the English who want to ban smoking, just the power-hungry gauleiters of Westminster. They never miss a chance to throw their weight about.
Bryan Dale
29 days ago
I don’t know that the English want to ban smoking. That’s an idea promoted by possibly the most unpopular prime minister in history. Even many of the leading MPs in his wretched party are opposed. Unfortunately principled Conservative MPs are an endangered species.
Alan Thorpe
29 days ago
I have never smoked and I don’t like to be with smokers. I support the smoking ban indoors but I don’t see why say pubs and restaurants should not allow smoking if they can get the customers and staff to work there. As far as health care is concerned just make smokers pay for treatment related to smoking, or better still privatise the entire NHS.
andy young
29 days ago
I hate smoking. It has always stunk to me, as far back as I can remember. So I’ve never been remotely tempted to start. Having said that, pipe & cigar smoke I have often found to be quite pleasant (although they still stink the same when stale).
As such I found it an enormous relief when it was banned from indoor public places, BUT, to make it illegal for people to smoke at all? When nobody who objects is around? NO NO NO!!!
Philip Anderson
29 days ago
This article is a great example of survivor bias!
(People who failed to reach the age of 84 because of their smoking habit aren’t here to tell us about it).
Victoria Cooper
29 days ago
Some people die from smoking, some live to a ripe old age. Doesn’t it behove the scientific community to work out the difference that makes the difference?
UnHerd Reader
29 days ago
Hockney is a great artist but no knowledge of statistics.
His argument would be “my uncle Joe survived 4 years in the trenches in WWI which proves it was safe.”
Nicholas Taylor
28 days ago
For the children and future generations, the sooner this appalling senseless and exploitive addiction is gone from the world the better. If I could, I would take all tobacco products and incinerate the lot now, and after a year or so close the shiny vape shops and destroy all their products, preferably recycling the vast amount of plastics and toxic batteries they contain. If someone had invented smoking and vaping just yesterday, instead of in a more ignorant, wasteful and less environment-conscious era, it would never be acceptable. The minimum should be a ban on smoking and vaping in public places. The fumes can travel for several metres, in the case of smoking rendering the air unbreathable. Smoking and vaping in public are the most common anti-social behaviours today.
Frank McCusker
7 months ago
Because it costs more in health spend than it provides in taxes. And because it’s dumb. With conventional drugs and booze, one’s mood at least alters, but smoking just seems to make miserable sods look a little less worried. Pointless crap.
Pehaps then we could argue that the main reason for banning smoking is that we have a free NHS. We could consider going back to favouring the privileged in a paying system and then the fuss about smoking might die down. I say this as a non-smoker who doesn’t particularly enjoy being around people smoking and with my tongue in my cheek….
Dear Mr Sunak
Please read the whole of this article, especially the penultimate paragraph.
I’m with you all the way here. I’m 75 and have been smoking since I was 18. One day, like everyone else, I am going to die and however it happens I will still be as dead as anyone else. I look around today’s world and I think that I am not really too fussed about when.
I stopped smoking and took up vaping, which I enjoy. And the same bossy boots tell me every day, “You can’t smoke here.” The second hand effects of vaping are exactly those of boiling a kettle. I have read many articles saying what undesirable substances are in vape fumes but not one (and I have looked hard) providing any quantitative information. Given that it is now trivial to detect substances at a concentration of one part per billion I see through those articles as the work of wowsers. Let’s be honest: many, many people simply object to others enjoying themselves. I’m with Hockney. They can all fock off.
Why would you expect any quantitative information ?
It will take 20 – 30 years minimum for any adverse effects from vaping (like increased incidence of cancers) to appear.
Currently, the long term effects of smoking cost the NHS and associated social care (tax payers) anything from £ 2 – 17 billion / year depending on how you do the calculations.
I have no problem with people choosing their method of death as long as the medical consequences of their addiction is paid for out of their own pockets and that means privately in the UK. Your lifetime NI contribtions if you end up with diabetes, COPD, cancer etc (i.e. chronic diseases due to smoking) don’t go anywhere near covering your actual medical costs.
Hadn’t you heard the news – there have been huge punitive taxes on tobacco for many years, from which the NHS should have benefitted.
Ah the costs to the NHS argument. That’s alcohol in the bin too. Red meat? Tut tut tut! I’m sure that cheese is worse than vaping so let’s get rid of that too. As David Hockney may say, f**k off!
“The cost to the NHS” argument used against smokers is a gross impertinence! To talk about NI contributions is to misunderstand the contribution which smokers contribute to the national exchequer. The cost of the packet of 20 cigarettes I smoke is currently £13 in the UK. Two years ago I was in Madrid where the very same cigarettes cost 4 Euros. This comparison alone shows the outrageous tax burden which has been heaped onto British smokers.
I suspect you are one of the people that Mr Hockney refers to repeatedly in his article…..
Dear Elaine,
I hope to goodness you’re neither a drinker, nor overweight, and that you take appropriate exercise to avoid ever getting a bad back, or needing a hip replacement. Otherwise your opposition to smoking on this basis (cost to the NHS) would make you a hypocrite.
As people below have pointed out, smokers have paid for any extra medical care they might need through a lifetime of exorbitant taxes on fags.
And if it is true that smokers are dying early as a result, then that’ll save the exchequer a ton on pensions, and indeed on medical care for the years that they’re not alive.
“In next week’s ‘UnHerd jobswap’, Jonathan Sumption has a go at painting some young lads in a swimming pool.”
Smokers—like alcoholics—smell bad and are un-kissable. Which makes them socially isolated and even more likely to turn to nicotine and alcohol as a cheer-me-up.
Its always sad when a friend succumbs to an addiction that marginalises them. When it happens to a great artist the art often benefits, directly or indirectly; such are the personal costs of the creative life from which the rest of us benefit.
Friendly discouragement is a human kindness that David Hockney seems unlikely to heed. He seems untypically clear-headed about the risks and pay-offs. Whereas most addicts are prisoners of their addiction because they fell through the trap door by misjudgement or happenstance.
Perfectly kissable if you have enough to drink.
Pointless distraction.
Mr. Sunak needs to focus on fixing the migrant crisis – and mitigating the ongoing extreme lawlessness crisis as a result of earlier waves.
He desperately doesn’t want to focus on that – so he distracts everbody with this.
I’m sure it will drive more voters to Reform.
David does wonderful paintings.
He is lucky he has the calm outlook and physical constitution to survive ok as a smoker.
But its a horrible smelly habit that was imposed on human beings. Its not a natural thing to do and is highly addictive. David is addicted.
Continuing to object to being told it’s an unhealthy thing to promote is just a waste of energy. Nobody is preveting him choosing to smoke. No law against stating the truth, bossy or not.
I have watched someone die from lung cancer.
If you’ve been smoking as long as Mr Hockney, you’ve no doubt forgotten how good it can feel not to smoke. My own experience tells me the latter is preferable. I’ve also seen my parents and two brothers die of lung cancer, caused by smoking. At times, they all justified smoking using the same arguments as Mr Hockney. I don’t consider myself a do-gooder, or ‘bossy boots’ for saying smoking isn’t a good thing. Bans work best, however, if they are self-imposed. Discouraging smoking, though, is better than encouraging it.
It’s not the English who want to ban smoking, just the power-hungry gauleiters of Westminster. They never miss a chance to throw their weight about.
I don’t know that the English want to ban smoking. That’s an idea promoted by possibly the most unpopular prime minister in history. Even many of the leading MPs in his wretched party are opposed. Unfortunately principled Conservative MPs are an endangered species.
I have never smoked and I don’t like to be with smokers. I support the smoking ban indoors but I don’t see why say pubs and restaurants should not allow smoking if they can get the customers and staff to work there. As far as health care is concerned just make smokers pay for treatment related to smoking, or better still privatise the entire NHS.
I hate smoking. It has always stunk to me, as far back as I can remember. So I’ve never been remotely tempted to start. Having said that, pipe & cigar smoke I have often found to be quite pleasant (although they still stink the same when stale).
As such I found it an enormous relief when it was banned from indoor public places, BUT, to make it illegal for people to smoke at all? When nobody who objects is around? NO NO NO!!!
This article is a great example of survivor bias!
(People who failed to reach the age of 84 because of their smoking habit aren’t here to tell us about it).
Some people die from smoking, some live to a ripe old age. Doesn’t it behove the scientific community to work out the difference that makes the difference?
Hockney is a great artist but no knowledge of statistics.
His argument would be “my uncle Joe survived 4 years in the trenches in WWI which proves it was safe.”
For the children and future generations, the sooner this appalling senseless and exploitive addiction is gone from the world the better. If I could, I would take all tobacco products and incinerate the lot now, and after a year or so close the shiny vape shops and destroy all their products, preferably recycling the vast amount of plastics and toxic batteries they contain. If someone had invented smoking and vaping just yesterday, instead of in a more ignorant, wasteful and less environment-conscious era, it would never be acceptable. The minimum should be a ban on smoking and vaping in public places. The fumes can travel for several metres, in the case of smoking rendering the air unbreathable. Smoking and vaping in public are the most common anti-social behaviours today.
Because it costs more in health spend than it provides in taxes. And because it’s dumb. With conventional drugs and booze, one’s mood at least alters, but smoking just seems to make miserable sods look a little less worried. Pointless crap.
Pehaps then we could argue that the main reason for banning smoking is that we have a free NHS. We could consider going back to favouring the privileged in a paying system and then the fuss about smoking might die down. I say this as a non-smoker who doesn’t particularly enjoy being around people smoking and with my tongue in my cheek….