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What does Angela Rayner really want? Don't underestimate her calculating ambition

It would be a mistake to underestimate her (Leon Neal/Getty Images)

It would be a mistake to underestimate her (Leon Neal/Getty Images)


September 14, 2023   4 mins

Listening to Angela Rayner this week has felt like real-time evidence for Karl Marx’s quip about the past weighing “like a nightmare on the brains of the living”. Even before she had addressed the TUC conference, Rayner was fending off questions about whether she was a modern-day John Prescott or, as she preferred, Barbara Castle. And long before this week’s comparisons to Prescott and Castle, John McDonnell was hailing her as the “Nye Bevan of the Jeremy Corbyn government”.

For Marx, of course, the point was that such historical cosplay was just that, a distraction, covering up the reality of grinding historical change — of new worlds coming into being, not old ones being resurrected. With Rayner, though, the historical comparisons themselves are revelatory.

When she described herself as “Prescott in a skirt”, for example, it was an attempt to showcase her loyalty. When she recently said she prefers to think of herself as a Barbara Castle, it was an attempt to showcase her independence. And when McDonnell hailed her as a new Bevan, it was not simply a way of paying her a compliment, but to stake a claim over her, declaring her as a figure of the Left at the very time many on the Right were beginning to think she might in fact be one of theirs.

Back in 2017, it did not seem so ludicrous that Rayner might actually prove to be a kind of stealth member of the Labour right. This, after all, had long been the traditional role played by the trades unions in the Labour movement — a pragmatic check on both the wishy-washy Fabianism of the soft Left and the radicals on the hard Left (and, indeed, the Blairite Right). The old Right is the tradition that gave us Ernest Bevin and James Callaghan: hard, patriotic deal makers who got things done and were uninterested in ideological purity contests. As one Labour shadow cabinet member put it to me, this is also Rayner’s self-image: the union organiser who cares little about indulgent Left-wing manoeuvring.

I distinctly remember the moment the Labour Right was most excited about Rayner — in large part because I, too, had convinced myself that there was something in this idea. I had seen her in the little-used “Barry Room”, tucked away in a quiet bit of the House of Lords, dining with one of Tony Blair’s closest allies — Lord Levy, then known as “Lord Cashpoint” for his success at raising donations for the party. Had the Blairites seen something, I wondered, and were they courting her, looking for ways to support her as their last best hope against the Left?

The little lunch meeting I witnessed came around the time Rayner had gone into battle with McDonnell over the issue of scrapping tuition fees. According to reports, Rayner — then shadow education secretary — was dismayed by the party’s decision to prioritise such an expensive policy choice over spending more on the kind of early-years care that she had once depended upon. Scrapping tuition fees largely helped middle-class children, while funding Sure Start centres helped the poor. At the time, Rayner even had the bravery to praise Tony Blair. As she said: “Ideology never put food on my table… I talk about Tony Blair’s tenure because it changed my life.”

This is one important way of understanding Rayner, then. At 43 she is from a new generation of MPs who came of age in Blair’s Britain — not Major’s, or Thatcher’s, or Callaghan’s. While she was brought up in a council house in the Britain of late Tory decay, she became a mum and joined the workforce under Blair.

It is not hard to see why she might feel defensive about the last Labour government, for this is the period in her life when she dragged herself out of poverty. Raised by a mother who could not read or write, she left school at 16 after getting pregnant. From this point she became a care worker and a Unison rep, eventually rising to become the union’s most senior official in the north-west and from there, the MP for Ashton-under-Lyne in 2015. She is, within the next 18 months, likely to become Deputy Prime Minister. The defining political forces in Rayner’s life, then, are the Blair governments and the trade union movement. Perhaps it’s no surprise then, that she is so difficult to pigeon hole.

“The Labour party is always trapped by analysing things through its own past,” one shadow minister put it to me this week. “But the best way to think about Angela is not as hard Left or old Right, but as an operator.” This MP — an admirer — said that when Rayner was at Unison, she was the type of person who would have been against the hard Left and any indulgent motions “about Latin America or whatever”. Similarly, while her language and policy ideas might be reminiscent of the Seventies, with its talk of corporatist partnerships between the state, business and labour unions, they are also, in large part, just a reflection of today’s world, influenced more by Bidenomics, “net zero” and Brexit than Tony Benn.

On one level, the historical comparisons are beneficial to Rayner because they downplay her potential. Being likened to big characters who never quite made it to the top make her seem unthreatening. And yet I’m told she is outspoken on the NEC — Labour’s ruling body — though prefers to thrash out issues with the leadership before votes are taken to avoid exposing divisions with Starmer. And in the last reshuffle she insisted on taking responsibility for the workers’ rights agenda, which few think Starmer wanted her to have. So while Starmer has asserted almost total control over the party since 2020, Rayner has worked to consolidate her position as an independent power of her own, one of the very few Labour figures to have survived both Corbyn and Starmer — and been prepared to stand up to both. She is a significant contemporary political force.

She is, though, a changeable force. Happy to be “John Prescott in a skirt” one moment, she’ll rail against the comparison the next. She can be hailed as the last leading representative of the Left willing to talk about “Tory scum”, while also going on the radio and saying the party cannot tax and spend its way to prosperity — a line which Tony Blair would himself use a day later in the Financial Times.

As she prepares for government, it would be a mistake to underestimate her intelligence, cunning, ambition and unpredictability. Whatever the result of the next election, Angela Rayner’s influence is only likely to grow. To what end remains less clear.


Tom McTague is UnHerd’s Political Editor. He is the author of Betting The House: The Inside Story of the 2017 Election.

TomMcTague

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Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
10 months ago

Just another puff piece about another political ego on a stick who will be forgotten about in a couple of years’ time.
I don’t think the electorate entirely trusts Labour not to make an even worse mess than the current batch of so-called Conservatives have done, especially as regards immigration.
I think they fear a kind of political bait and switch, especially as large sections of Labour are inhabited by the green hair brigade.
If the Tories hadn’t messed up so badly in respect of immigration they might have had a better shot at re-election. They may still have.
Either way, a plague on both their houses etc etc. I’m voting SDP.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

A vote for Labour is appearing more and more like an open admission that the height of Britain’s ambition in 2023 is simply to decline more slowly. No wonder people are down in the mouth.
Reading about Starmer’s plan to do a deal with the EU re: migrants is the latest act in the theatre of the absurd: the UK would be entering into an agreement that most EU states won’t even think about (the idea of burden sharing is simply a non-starter over here – no matter how many times the political elites try to warm it up).
Sunak has the right idea in teaming up with Meloni. Pretty soon, the mood in the whole of the EU is going to tip and there will be a drive to protect the EU’s outer borders properly. The knock-on effect will be that less migrants make it to Britain. France will probably open the gates and flood you with people for a while if you refuse to enter into an agreement (see: The Great Erdogan Playbook), but if you hang out a bit more then staying out of France’s game of blackmail might just work.

Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
10 months ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Hopefully it will. I think the real issue for Britain though at the moment is India. I fear it will make any trade deal dependent on relaxing visa restrictions.
Where I work in South London there has been a large influx of young men from this country over the past couple of years. If you want to see the future of the UK come to sunny Catford!

Jacqueline Burns
Jacqueline Burns
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

Better still, come to East London where the future is all ready here & will only worsen under Labour!

j watson
j watson
10 months ago

Another Brexit dividend. The ‘gift’ that keeps giving

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

There you go – a Brexit dividend. Well done.

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Yet another Watsonian performative comment. Have you ever thought about addressing the specified issue with relevant alternative thoughts …

Last edited 10 months ago by Ian Barton
Sayantani Gupta Jafa
Sayantani Gupta Jafa
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

Well, if it has to be a ” deal” which allows unbridled profits to Scotch whisky ( and sacrifices the domestic clinky industry heavily tarrif protected till now) there has to be some give- away from the UK.
What most Indian parents would like is for the UK campuses to set up shop in India, instead of reducing them to penury by a selfishly transactional generation swayed by ” peer pressure” to study abroad.
The desperation of UK universities to fill in useless Woke courses by granting admission helps no one.

I would be interested to know which part of India these young men hail from. Guessing they would mostly be from the North of India.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

I notice Meloni is not going to leave EU so not sure why you think UK will have the slightest leverage. UK will be more adrift than ever calling out in the wilderness ‘at least we have taken back control!’ Comical but sad.

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Butler

The Frankfurt bankers have made it almost impossible for Italy to leave the EU. The U.K. never had leverage on the Franco/German project, so I’m not sure why you are suggesting that “taking back control” was about affecting EU policy. I guess you never understood what Brexit was about.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago
Reply to  Ian Barton

Certainly didn’t. Naive remainers like me can’t see the slightest benefit. And neither can more and more of the UK population.

Marie Jones
Marie Jones
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

Me too. I wish the SDP was more adept at advertising itself. Centre left on the economy and centre right on social and cultural issues is where, I believe, the majority of British people are.

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
10 months ago
Reply to  Marie Jones

Spot on – voting for the SDP or Reform is the only way of dealing with the “Omniparty”.

Jacqueline Burns
Jacqueline Burns
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

You were doing well until the last sentence.:) But I am curious to know what makes you think the SDP would be any better?

Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
10 months ago

Well, I can’t say for sure they would, but I kind of hope they might provide an alternative to the current, outdated party machines.

Last edited 10 months ago by Jeff Butcher
Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

The issue is electoral reform. Your (and many other people’s) vote ought count for something. But it will mean nothing under Fptp. Mine also unless there’s a rout in sw herts.

j watson
j watson
10 months ago

An irony about ‘taking back control’ of course. For most their is zilch unless you live in a marginal.
Oddly our Votes for the EU Parliament were under PR and counted more, not that we entirely grasped that. Strange world.

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Taking back control just means reducing the amount of external bodies that are difficult/impossible to replace.
Brexit eliminated the “impossible” now it’s time to start working on the “difficult”.

AC Harper
AC Harper
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

Rather than the SDP go straight for the awkward squad – either Reform UK or the Official Monster Raving Loony Party, whichever stands in your constituency.
Faced with a ‘straight’ main party ticket write ‘None of the above’ on your ballot paper.

Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
10 months ago
Reply to  AC Harper

I’m very tempted by the last option I must say

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  AC Harper

How very apposite that you’ve stuck Monster Raving Loons next to Reform. Congrous and apt. What about ‘Raving Reform Loons’, the RRLs? Has a ring to it I think.

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Another low-rent teenage comment. I bet you are king of your bedroom debating society.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
10 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

You and ten others……

P N
P N
10 months ago

“While she was brought up in a council house in the Britain of late Tory decay.”
Rayner enjoyed the economic boom of the Tory economy. Major handed Blair the best economy of Rayner’s lifetime, being the last time we had both a trade surplus and a budget surplus. The author’s bias is too obvious with this lazy slur.
Talking of slurs, anyone who uses language like “Tory Scum” has no business being in Parliament. Rayner typifies the lefty who assumes her politics makes her more moral and that her opponents as not just in error but in sin. Not only does it reveal a lack of intellectual capacity and curiosity, as it negates the need to actually engage with your opponent, it also hints at the hatred and division that made it so much easier to herd people onto trucks in the last century.

Paul T
Paul T
10 months ago
Reply to  P N

They love that “late” epithet because they are addicted to, and cynically exploiting, their end-of-days nonsense.

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  P N

Yes a mistake of our Ang to use that phrase and she was pulled up on it. She was playing to a left wing crowd that sanctifies Nye Bevan and of course he first used the phrase – also similarly rebuked by Atlee.
But of course some statements from likes of Lee Anderson pretty ‘salty’ (Tory Minister phrase) too – calling all Travellers ‘Thieves’. And Farage too not adverse to red meat statements about Romanians et al. Braverman too of course happy to use stereo-typing language. And if you’ve been watching ‘State of Chaos’ Steve Baker regretful of use of ‘traitors’ language.
So Ang not alone, but doesn’t make it right.

John Williams
John Williams
10 months ago
Reply to  P N

Falstaff dehumanised his opponents, calling them caterpillars; Goebbels designated Jews rats while the Hutus referred to Tutsis as cockroaches.
whenever we see this type of dehumanisation anywhere we should be alarmed.

John Howes
John Howes
10 months ago

“As she prepares for government, it would be a mistake to underestimate her intelligence, cunning, ambition and unpredictability. Whatever the result of the next election,”
I am minded of her interview with Andrew Neil whilst she was shadow education secretary. Her grasp of her brief was shredded, few politicians of any stamp, even the extremely able Sturgeon produced anything of note under his forensic dissection. Probably why Johnson avoided it.
cunning,ambition and unpredictability, ok, her intelligence is that of the Trade Union negotiator, but the intelligence to see beyond the title of her brief is doubtful.

Last edited 10 months ago by John Howes
Jacqueline Burns
Jacqueline Burns
10 months ago
Reply to  John Howes

I bet Barbara Castle is turning in her grave to think of this unpleasant witch comparing herself to her. Barbara Castle was a charming, witty, intelligent woman who could string many sentences together to explain her well thought out policies & beliefs. Our Ange can barely string her words together to form a single short sentence without ranting against other people in a very unpleasant manner.

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  John Howes

Whilst the Tory party membership, in it’s innate wisdom, went for Mad Liz. The Queen of the Car-crash Interview for which we are all still paying.

Graeme Crosby
Graeme Crosby
10 months ago

Rayner is left wing through and through. This piece is utter garbage. In government she will be nothing but destructive and her age (43) means she might actually believe her TUC mates that collective bargaining was a good thing rather than an utter disaster for the economy.
With Rayner it is nothing but “soak the rich”, “Tory scum”, blah blah blah. Any other reading of her is naive in the extreme or a disingenuous effort on the author’s part to persuade undecided voters that it’s safe to vote Labour.

Last edited 10 months ago by Graeme Crosby
Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
10 months ago
Reply to  Graeme Crosby

I’d take some smelling salts if I were you! Labour is now an almost dead certainty for government.The Tories have had their chance and utterly blown it, especially post Brexit.

Maybe not a good choice (cf Trump / Biden) but it’s the choice the electorate will have.

I’m not sure Angela Rayner considers “left wing” an insult…

Last edited 10 months ago by Andrew Fisher
Ian Barton
Ian Barton
10 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Labour does appear a dead cert – but Andrew’s analysis is spot on. Instead of reverting to suggesting others require “smelling salts” you could just try to be insightful.

AC Harper
AC Harper
10 months ago

To misquote Bob Monkhouse:
“The Left love purity – If you can fake that, you’ve got it made”

Anthony L
Anthony L
10 months ago

It’s hard to take seriously anyone who takes mainstream British politics seriously.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
10 months ago
Reply to  Anthony L

I think you might start taking it a bit more seriously when the Energy Bill currently going through Parliament starts to be enforced.

Andrew Martin
Andrew Martin
10 months ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Yes, that is a disgrace Hugh. Except for a few Tory right everyone voted to send its citizens to prison and/or pay a huge fine for not thinking like them. A revolution is coming.

Alex Carnegie
Alex Carnegie
10 months ago
Reply to  Anthony L

I suspect we will look back on the thirty years since the Cold War the same way people see the 1920s in the US – frivolous times, no really serious challenges, superficial politicians. Now we have serious challenges and need serious politics but unfortunately are still being ruled by the superficial and/or frivolous. “Cometh the hour, cometh the man (or woman)” supposedly. Still waiting for a crop of serious politicians to rise to the occasion.

James Kirk
James Kirk
10 months ago
Reply to  Alex Carnegie

Don’t hold your breath. The next lot are still at primary school, wearing dresses.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
10 months ago

Let’s hope she’s not a closet Blairite like Starmer has turned out to be. New Labour was a disaster for working people. House prices and rents went through the roof, wages were squeezed.
We should never forget that it was a Labour Chancellor who changed the way the official cost of living figures are calculated in order to conceal from his own voters the extent to which he had stitched them up.

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Real wages grew 25% under the Blair Govts, but House prices more than doubled. Since 2010 real wages stagnated, and House prices continued to rise by c50-60% (Averages of course hide much).
So you aren’t correct, but the Blair legacy not without some significant structural problems that went unsolved. Nonetheless the Tories had way longer now than Blair ever had in power and where are we?

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

He is correct – and you just provided some statistical support.

Jonathan Nash
Jonathan Nash
10 months ago

Uneducated, coarse and foul-mouthed: what’s not to like, eh?

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan Nash

Understand Lee Anderson quite popular in Right Wing circles. Were you referring to 30p Lee or our Ang? Maybe both?

Paul T
Paul T
10 months ago

She wants to be free to use hate speech, to dehumanise millions of people and drag out her rags to fags tale as though there is something inspiring in it. A horrible potty-mouthed thing.

Ray Andrews
Ray Andrews
10 months ago

“likely to become Deputy Prime Minister”
A white person?? Please tell me she’s a lesbian, this could be too much for the wokies to tolerate.

Paul T
Paul T
10 months ago
Reply to  Ray Andrews

A lesbian? She can’t be; she isn’t male.

Richard M
Richard M
10 months ago

I do love that photo of Angela Raynor that’s often used in the tabloids, standing out the back smoking a fag.
I know the redtops use it to try to depict her as a chav, but its so rare to see politicians in genuinely unguarded moments these days that I think its actually come to help her seem relatable to the public.

Martin Bollis
Martin Bollis
10 months ago
Reply to  Richard M

She’ll have to be something of a shape shifter to be a political success. Having real life experiences inform her positions, rather than focus groups, does mark her out on in a positive way.

Pedro the Exile
Pedro the Exile
10 months ago
Reply to  Martin Bollis

This “real life experience” schtick is an odd one for me and seems to revolve around her not being entitled and middle class .As far as I can gather she has been a major recipient of tax payer funding all her life (as presumably did her ” mother who could not read or write” ?) and on her current trajectory will probably do so for the rest of her life.So its a peculiar form of “real life experience” that teaches you that the state (read taxpayers)will provide all-however should be ideal grounding for the UK for the next 50 years as we descend into 3rd world economic freefall.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
10 months ago
Reply to  Richard M

It’s perhaps the British equivalent of the photo of Ben Affleck standing outside his door, smoking and looking done with just about everything. It did so much to revive his fortunes, as everyone who sees it – smoker or no – thinks “I get it Ben, I get it”.
https://www.thecut.com/2016/08/ben-affleck-smoking-through-the-pain-of-existence.html

Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
10 months ago
Reply to  Richard M

Totally agree. Like when Prescott smacked that bloke. His popularity surged. Or at least it did with me.

j watson
j watson
10 months ago

Yep and you could imagine her doing it too couldn’t you. Suspect our Ang connects with some much more than some think, and truth is alot on the Right grasp that. Which is why the ‘take-down’ strategies will increase.

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

I’ll give you that insight …

Andrew Martin
Andrew Martin
10 months ago

I wonder what she will do for the ordinary man/woman in the street. Her party along with “not the Conservative” Party, the Lib Dumbs, and the Stone age Greens are all in thrall to the green revolution that will make them poorer, colder and hungrier. Is there an alternative out there I could vote for to get rid of these crackpots.

Paul T
Paul T
10 months ago

She wants 20 Lammy B’s and a bottle of vino collapso.

Walter Marvell
Walter Marvell
10 months ago

Shapeshifter is just a cool buzzy word for someone who lacks form and alters their stance radically repeatedly on a whim. Great for Marvel Comics. But not qualities for any serious politician I would have thought. Ignore her pugnacity and fun Tory Scum denunciations. A few days ago she promised – big time – us that Labour was the party of housebuilding. The State would fund first time buyers! Homeoenership to 70%!!!! Wow!!!! Today…cough… Labour and the Army of Unelected & Damned Lib Dem tore down a policy – to accelerate home building and remove a ludicrous EU & Quangocracy law that crushes property development. Wow!!! Thats Shape-shifting all right. But nothing to praise I would have thought….

John Galt Was Correct
John Galt Was Correct
10 months ago

If the leaks are true and the UK government is about to cancel the Birmingham-Manchester part of HS2, and effectively have spent the best part of £80B on a 100 mile route from London to Birmingham we might as well vote in the Downing Street cat. I have never voted Labour but I think it’s way past time for change. A lot of the resentment of Rayner is pure cheap and shallow snobbery, usually from the narrow and small mindedness of intolerant ‘middle’ England. They might want to clutch their pearls and prepare their delicate sensibilities because they’ll be seeing and hearing a lot more of her. Maybe she will take over as the obsession of their favourite news rag, the Daily (hate) Mail. It will give Meghan and Harry a breather.

Martin Butler
Martin Butler
10 months ago

Well said – Middle England is kind of running out of options. Don’t like Sunak, don’t like Blairites, don’t like Corbynites, don’t like Starmer (or Rayner). Johnson and Truss have blown it. Blimey what the hell now?

Last edited 10 months ago by Martin Butler
j watson
j watson
10 months ago

A ‘National Treasure’ in the making. Got to love our Ang. Much more to her than the crass right wing stereotypes.
She’s gonna be a Fav here on Unherd without doubt

Paul T
Paul T
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

You keep trotting out this “our Ang” thing as though it isnt a poisonous bit of sexism. Look what the “our Becky” did for one of the last Labour leadership candidates; I can’t even remember her name but I do remember her being talked about as though she were some sort of chattel for the unions to pass around. It is revolting.

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

I’m sure she’s fine with it, but shall watch with interest for your consistency in picking out sexism and misogyny. A fellow Woke Warrior PT, good man.

Paul T
Paul T
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

I am not a fellow with your sort in any way.

Champagne Socialist
Champagne Socialist
10 months ago

You’re right to be afraid. She’s going to be a nightmare for the far right.
However, I’m sure normal people who have everyday concerns and dreams will be happy. You see, normal people don’t spend all their time obsessing about the genitals of people they will never meet. You people should try it sometime, you might not be so angry all the time…

Paul T
Paul T
10 months ago

Normal people don’t refer to millions of others as scum because they have a different and entirely legal view of things.

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Normal people don’t refer to asylum seekers as all being criminals.

Paul T
Paul T
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Normal people don’t poison language so as to prevent others having their say.

j watson
j watson
10 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Someone stopped you having your say PT? Jolly unfair of them.
What was it you said and where?

Last edited 10 months ago by j watson
Paul T
Paul T
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Who rattled your cage?

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
10 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Excellent point – this seems to be the standard approach of the left e.g Supporting women/mothers makes you a Terf.
Their total absence of a logical position leaves the only remaining option of changing the subject.
These language twisters are just bereft of any form of intelligence.

Last edited 10 months ago by Ian Barton
Hilary Easton
Hilary Easton
10 months ago
Reply to  j watson

who has said that? not even Nigel F as far as I know.

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
10 months ago
Reply to  Hilary Easton

Of course Farage didn’t say that, The comment suggesting he did was just the puerile rantings of an ill-informed mind – one that insults but never adds to the stock of knowledge.

Last edited 10 months ago by Ian Barton
j watson
j watson
10 months ago

I scrolled all the way down this stream and was rewarded with your comments Champers. God Bless You.

Mike Michaels
Mike Michaels
10 months ago

Normal people were quite happy never thinking about other people’s genitalia until your lot started chopping them off in an attempt to cure a mental illness.

Hilary Easton
Hilary Easton
10 months ago

Amazed that people are voting you down for this comment! It is both moderate and true.