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Johann Strauss
Johann Strauss
5 months ago

I’ve no idea why the author has to bring in climate change and “melting” of the arctiv when the artic ice extent is now back up to what it was in 2008. It strikes me that there is a lot of hysteria in this article about the emergence of old bacteria and viruses. For heaven’s sake, how about trying to come back to earth and present data in a calm and measured way.

Champagne Socialist
Champagne Socialist
5 months ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

Science and rationality is always a problem for deniers. You scream and wail in the face of facts, you listen to Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump instead of scientists, and try to ignore the clear signs of climate change.
Fortunately nobody listens to you and you can be happily ignored while you throw your tantrums.

T Bone
T Bone
5 months ago

You’re risking turning Science into Religion, CS. It’s one thing to “trust science” if you define science as an aggregate system of indisputable facts repeatedly tested for bias. It’s another to put blind trust in credentialed “Experts” tasked with interpreting wide swaths of data and compiling it into a coherent narrative.

You’re a Socialist so you should know as well as any that if corporate interests are funding scientists to come to a particular conclusion than the data deserves skepticism. If a strong plurality of Scientists, aka a Consensus suddenly decides fracking is carbon neutral, would you just accept that argument because they’re declared “respectable” scientists? Or would you question the motives being tied to oil development?

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
5 months ago
Reply to  T Bone

It’s best to ignore obvious trolls. Just like they ignore scientific facts that are inconvenient, such as those Canadian pine trees are only able to reproduce when the pine cones open during fires. Why would they evolve like that if forest fires were not normal? And the fact that those roundworms and viruses got frozen in the ground many, many years ago, when the earth was warmer than today. These unfortunate souls apparently don’t realize that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and it continues to change like it has for 4.5 billion years. Whatever happens during a blink of the eye, which is how long we individuals exist, is meaningless.
https://www.earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/BOREASFire

Last edited 5 months ago by Warren Trees
Steve Murray
Steve Murray
5 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

I can’t recall the source now, but i vividly recall reading that at some point in the future, the entire fossil-fuelled industrial era (c.1770-2070) will be a dark layer one millimetre thick in a rock formation.

Champagne Socialist
Champagne Socialist
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Compelling.
LOL!

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
5 months ago

Combusting, my dear chap.
LOL…

Last edited 5 months ago by Steve Murray
Champagne Socialist
Champagne Socialist
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

What was the source for this one, Steve? Or can’t you remember?!?!?

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
5 months ago

Daimler, old chap.

Champagne Socialist
Champagne Socialist
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Are you sure? Did you just remember that all of a sudden?!?!?

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago

The clue is in the name Fossil as in Fossil Fuels. The only way CO2 got to be Fossil carbon is because living organisms ‘fixed it’ – SO when ALL that CO2 was still in the atmosphere, the planet couldn’t have ‘burned’ and all life died could it?

T Bone
T Bone
5 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

I think people are too hard on CS. He’s singlehandedly united this board across the political spectrum.

His subversive message of unity could bring world peace!

Champagne Socialist
Champagne Socialist
5 months ago
Reply to  T Bone

You are being hard on me?!?!?
You’re not very good at it – I hadn’t even noticed! I just see all the lovely fanboys who feel can’t help but get all excited every time I post!

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago

Anyone who hasn’t figuered out Anthropological Climate change is a scam is unlikely to notice anything very much.

Last edited 5 months ago by UnHerd Reader
Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
5 months ago
Reply to  T Bone

There are too many folk bleating on about The Science (which pretty much tells you they aren’t actual scientists, despite their Social “Science” degrees).
However when the scientist is , for example, an experienced oil & gas engineer, they don’t want to listen.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago

Climate Science is ‘model based’ their correlation with reality makes the Doomsday Prof Ferguson’s models look accurate.

Noel Chiappa
Noel Chiappa
5 months ago
Reply to  T Bone

“Risking”? I’d say it’s more than a risk!

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
5 months ago

The only deniers of climate change are people like Ml Mann, with his ludicrously inaccurate hockey stick graph. Try reading the emails between him and the UEA, when they worry desperately about the problem of medieval warming and the little ice age, and the many writers who really believe that since the Holocene the climate has been unchanging and stable.

Benedict Waterson
Benedict Waterson
5 months ago

Scientific methodology doesn’t work in the way you seem to think it does. It can’t allow human beings to predict the future on a global scale. The empirical results for previous projections are in, and they were wrong. Any scientific consensus at any given point in time can always be proven wrong, because consensus isn’t what matters in science, so theres always room for skepticism and counter-argument. Yet again you project your own ignorance and tribalism onto others.

John Riordan
John Riordan
5 months ago

This is one of the stupidest, most ignorant comments I have ever read in these comment sections.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago

Eh? “Deniers?” – Science? ROFL – Here’s a Geologist and a Nobel Prize Winner on the Pseudo Science that is Climate Science. I expect you also think mRNA vaccines are safe and effective and COVID was the new Black Death?
https://twitter.com/wideawake_media/status/1676156584169205760?s=12
So you support the embittered, obscure and unemployable Climate Scientists?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSfdpmEafGI
Then of course ‘Denier” is a devastating scientific response to the TSI evidence don’t you think? 😉
IF you don’t know anything about the recent TSI papers that Mann and Scmidt are trying to rubbish with the equivalent of ‘denier’ because they stuff the anthropological claim of CO2 driving Climate Change, look them up.
As for Climate changes, in the UK they have a beautiful area known as the Lake District – had Climate NOT change thousands of years pre-industrial revolution, it would be the Glacier District.
Get a grip, read more widely.

Last edited 5 months ago by UnHerd Reader
0 0
0 0
5 months ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

Exactly. We’re in a solar system within perhaps many solar systems. Our climate will change constantly, as it has over billions of years. The idea humans can change the earth’s climate is as vapid as it is pretentious.

Last edited 5 months ago by 0 0
martin logan
martin logan
5 months ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

Right, my lying eyes…
Are lying!
You can argue about the significance of climate change, but not that it is occurring, and making the lives of hundreds of millions far worse.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago
Reply to  martin logan

Actually it isn’t making lives far worse. What is making lives far worse is the myth that it is CO2 that is driving the change and the subsequent insanity of reducing the fossil fuel production and all the associated benefits of such fuels. Cheaper and more abundant fossil fuels increases wealth and enables engineers etc to adapt to the ‘non-anthropological’ TSI driven climate changes.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

Nor have I any idea why they did, it is a Cult, so they may be motivated by promises of Heaven,
I do know that very soon, the Insanity that is Net Zero is going to spill over into UK politics and the “Uniparty” ‘Consensus’ (we all know that Science doesn’t progress on Consensus, if anything it stagnates and becomes corrupt then stinks. Michael Crichton did an excellent hatchet job of Consensus in science) will either explode, or some other party will feature.
Here are the following areas that are likely to hit first.
a) Gas Boiler ban
b) ICE car ban
c) The Energy Bill provisions that are designed to keep an increasingly unstable ‘windmill/solar panel” powered Grid from collapsing. That includes using smart meters to stop you using your ‘smart devices. – Put your washing machine on the Net and soon it will tell your when you can wash your clothes!
However, hunger and food shortages aren’t that many years away. And a cold spell this winter is going to see inflation take off as Gas heads for the stars again. Care of German and EU needs to keep the lights on at any cost. Mind you, once the Grid starts to fail, UK parties will have to decide where they stand on Net Zero insanity as well.

Mark Goodhand
Mark Goodhand
5 months ago

“the burning crucible of our climate crisis”
This is one of the most absurdly hyperbolic articles I’ve seen on UnHerd.
If current warming continues, there will be pros & cons.
If we keep our heads, we can adapt just fine.

Stuart Sutherland
Stuart Sutherland
5 months ago

I thought I was reading a Guardian article here!

Andrew H
Andrew H
5 months ago

Me too!

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
5 months ago

No wonder ‘Champagne Socialist’ loved it.
You must admit she’s a great WOKE GORGON.

Champagne Socialist
Champagne Socialist
5 months ago

Oh look, racist grandpa is up!

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
5 months ago

Do you even know what Gorgons are/were?

Champagne Socialist
Champagne Socialist
5 months ago

Do you really think there is anything worth knowing that you know and I don’t?!?!?
Go back to sleep, old timer…

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
5 months ago

Judging by your comments so far you are a rather juvenile, ill informed cretin.
However perhaps I am mistaken, and you suffer from an inferiority complex. Bad luck! But you’ll get over it I am sure.

Champagne Socialist
Champagne Socialist
5 months ago

The chances of me suffering from an inferiority complex in this company are approximately zero!

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago

Correction! the chances of you knowing it or even admitting it should you know it is not approximately zero, it is zero.
Pretend the above is written in green ink, that way it should cause less stress than the red your teacher might use.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago

On the evidence of your posts, there is a vast amount worth knowing that you don’t know, though probably not so much worth knowing that the ‘old timer’ doesn’t know. You for one aren’t “Standing of the shoulders of Giants” that’s for sure.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago

Another of your devastating scientific refutations of those ‘denier’ beliefs. Are you Prof Mann?

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
5 months ago

In the 1930s Arctic ice was lower than today,and in the 1940 s to the late 1979 s it was thicker because the climate was colder. In the last 30 years it has been almost as ice free as in the 1930s. This has provoked interest in the northern passage, the agreement between Norway and Russia over the Bering sea,Russia’s claim in 2009 to the Lomonosov ridge, and a number of research ships getting stuck in ice that was supposed to have melted. The article. Is neither new nor accurate ( except for the admission that the Arctic was warm in 1915 and cold in 1947, and is weirdly hysterical.in tone.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Anna Bramwell

delayed post

Last edited 5 months ago by Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Anna Bramwell

“In the 1930s Arctic ice was lower than today”
No. It was the lowest recorded up to that point in the 20th Century. The trend has all been downhill since then. See Walsh and Chapman who probably have the best consolidated data set :
“20th-century sea-ice variations from observational data”and
“A database for depicting Arctic sea ice variations back to 1850”
The latter paper (with the more dramatic graphs) is unfortunately behind a pay wall but you can get an idea of the trends they are pointing out at a climate change site here :
https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-piecing-together-arctic-sea-ice-history-1850/
What these changes might mean to local and the wider weather systems, climate in general, ocean circulations, distribution of fish stocks, livelihoods in the Arctic, geo-political alarums and excursions, ecological knock on effects etc. are largely speculative at the moment.
However, isn’t it wonderful that these observations and concerns are fuelling all this great research into how our earth works ?
Doesn’t it show just a modicum of wisdom that people are now playing all these “what if” scenarios ?
Don’t you think this type of long term thinking and planning is a good discipline ?

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago

Not when you bet the global economy on computer models that fail to reflect the reality. Or hasn’t the track record of the Doomsday Prof over the last 5 or 6 ‘pandemics’ with his mortality computer modelling not yet hit home?
Lock-down was a social, medical and economic disaster based on Ferguson’s ‘Stay home or we will all die’ modelling. Curiously the same message was ignored for the various other viral epidemics he’d have locked us down for. Though when it came to cows and sheep, Blair believed him and incinerated vast numbers of them. (What is it with Greens that they hate Cows and Sheep as much as they hate humans?)
I remember commuting up and down the M5 when Dante’s inferno was played out along the Welsh border farms. I’ve never seen anything like it before or since in my life. It appeared from the motorway that the whole of the Welsh border from Malvern down to near Gloucester was ablaze.
Come COVID then Johnson believed him! Curiously, when we were all threatened with £10,000 fines for breaking ‘lock-down’ assuming we didn’t die as predicted IF we broke it. The Prof decided he had a mistress to die for and he broke lock-down.
COVID,Anthropological Climate Change are but 2 instances of what happens when you let the Globalists, particularly the UN cess pits of the IPCC and WHO have power over Governments.
Climate Scientists were the ones who first applied the tactics we now see used so often. Use Computer models, fiddle the data by ‘adjusting it’ then latch on to politicians with an eye for power or a quick buck, after that lie, exaggerate, move on to another lie when the one you first started with is exposed. They led the way for the COVID spectacular.
The ONLY way to get back to reality is by carefully assessing facts. Here are 3 that are relevant this summer to disregard the Climate Science myths.
a) The record 48c temp in Greece. It was a ground temperature, NOT an air temperature. IF we get another hot sunny day take your shoes off on a section of grass, then step onto tarmac or concrete, and see what burns – the soles of your feet or your ears.
Ground temps are often 10c higher than air temps, which is why we don’t put weather station thermometers in the sun on the ground, but 2 metres high and enclosed.
b) Consider this. We have NOT anywhere near released back into the atmosphere all the Fossil held Carbon. SO IF we are reputedly about to burn the earth and kill ALL life already (According to Greta a famous scientist said we burn last June) how come, when ALL that CO2 was in the atmosphere, there were abundant plants and animals to sequester it in the first place?
c) Climate isn’t Weather – so we are repeatedly told when weather doesn’t conform to the Green agenda. Well this summer all we hear on the news of the weather is claimed to be Climate. Now, historically we know what happened for some years after Krakatoa erupted with the weather disruptions across the world. Yet in January last year we got another ‘Krakatoa’ sized eruption in the Pacific. Though unlike Krakatoa, because this was underwater, the ‘debris’ didn’t make it into the upper atmosphere. But vast amounts of one of the most potent and badly modeled Green house gases did. Water. So much got up there that NASA initially thought their instruments were faulty. Yet has anyone heard one Climate Scientists or their shills pointing out that the ‘weather’ is related to this eruption? Nope! You haven’t because it doesn’t FIT their political agenda.
The BBC, that propaganda arm of everything w0ke, still sometimes lets reality through. Here’s how it was when the world was 7c hotter.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/385SHpTG5M25Xr6G3FSMJTG/seven-things-that-happened-when-the-planet-got-really-really-hot
We didn’t all burn and Mammals evolved!

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Anna Bramwell

another delayed post

Last edited 5 months ago by Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Nathan Sapio
Nathan Sapio
5 months ago
Reply to  Anna Bramwell

Yes, you can read writings from sealers in the early 1900s mentioning the lack of sea ice they were used to encountering in the artic.

Champagne Socialist
Champagne Socialist
5 months ago
Reply to  Nathan Sapio

Where can we read these writings?

Bruce Jollimore
Bruce Jollimore
5 months ago

Read some Farley Mowat and his research material

Mark Goodhand
Mark Goodhand
5 months ago

“but they also raise questions about what else might venture forth in a thaw”
White Walkers!

Right-Wing Hippie
Right-Wing Hippie
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark Goodhand

I’ve seen Fortitude; I know what happens next.

John Thorogood
John Thorogood
5 months ago

An acquaintance of mine, eminent sea ice expert from the Scott Polar research institute in Cambridge in 2012 made the famous prediction that the Arctic ocean would be ice-free by 2020.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Wadhams#:~:text=Attempting%20to%20estimate%20when%20the,conservative%20regarding%20sea%20ice%20decline.
Well, how’s that for “The Science”, then?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
5 months ago
Reply to  John Thorogood

Why has he not been stripped of his Polar Medal?

Champagne Socialist
Champagne Socialist
5 months ago

Why would he be stripped of his polar medal, racist grandpa?

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago

Bingo! “Racist” is sooo yesterday’s insult. A bit like ‘denier’. Haven’t you been attending branch meetings or do you fall asleep at the back and miss the “insult of the month’?

Right-Wing Hippie
Right-Wing Hippie
5 months ago

The new Cold War.

John Riordan
John Riordan
5 months ago

“In the summer of 1915, meanwhile, temperatures reached 37.8ºC, a record that stands to this day. Over the past 40 years, as the Arctic has warmed at a rate anything up to four times faster than the rest of the planet, the Yukon Flats, which straddle the Arctic Circle, have recorded the biggest temperature increases of all. Winters here are now on average 4.9ºC warmer than they were in the Fifties.”

Gosh. Soon the all time record of 1915 will be broken by the so-called unprecedented climate change we’re seeing now.

martin logan
martin logan
5 months ago
Reply to  John Riordan

And until about 30 years ago, you saw the sun only intermittently in Britain, and the need to water the lawn was rare.
Sorry, I can see the change in the last 20 years–in my water bills.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
5 months ago
Reply to  martin logan

Not true. 67 years ago my family would spend most of our summer holidays on Formby beach near Liverpool. My father a lorry driver, would drop us off (illegal now packing 3 families and a dog into the back of a 18 ton van!) work, then come and pick us up 12 or 13 hours later (No law requiring timer tachos then either)
My mother was always receiving compliments on the little brown boy who she returned home with. Those summers lasted from when I was 7 until I was 11, and then intermittently until 13 as my dad was moved to long haul from local. Very rarely did we have to shelter in the pine woods to avoid rain.
But on a more scientifict note, that ain’t climate, that’s weather. Have you ever thought that removing ‘smog’ ‘particulate matter’ ‘Sulphur compounds’ might affect the TSI striking the earth as clouds & fogs were formed by ‘condensation’ around minute particulate matter and that has reduced considerably?
The recent removal of heavy sulphur fuels in maritime shipping has had a noticeable effect on TSI too. Though Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha’apai’s eruption has helped, tho’ the Greens curiously say little about that in my experience.

Travis Wade Zinn
Travis Wade Zinn
5 months ago

Very concerning, and promising – this has been on my mind for years