An interesting interview, with many things I can agree about, but also many things to challenge. I get the sense that Munchau is a long term technocratic consensus insider, who has suddenly been slapped awake by patterns which have been brewing for a long time suddenly snapping into focus over the last couple of years, and as such he can see a bunch of stark realities ahead for Germany, but is nevertheless unwilling to totally let go of all of that past consensus. I know very little about the AFD, but he called them far-right, but any non-progressive hearing that in the UK will instantly know that UKIP and TBP and even the Tories are routinely labelled that, and so will dismiss that assessment even if it is actually true of the AFD. He also equated their political ecosystem with amongst other things, anti-semitism, which begs the question: how would Munchau then classify the UK Labour Party of the last several years under Corbyn, with figures like Ken Livingstone and Chris Williamson in positions of prominence – as in, was Labour far-right too? A big hole in the analysis for me was no mention of the absolutely dire state of German age demographics. I also didn’t get a clear sense of why Germany never engaged full scale in the tech industry over the last three decades, notwithstanding a very highly educated populace, not on the electronics side (chip makers etc) nor software. I also never got a very clear sense why Germany put their head on the chopping block by creating dependence on a Russia led by Putin, for godssake. I also didn’t get a clear picture of why they collectively appear to want to *still* maintain dependence on China, despite the lesson of getting kicked in the nads by Putin. I also never got a clear picture why this psychology has grown across Germany, where they will buy into a seeming merchantilist pragmatism about creating deep business ties with people who are very clearly not your friends, and yet simultaneously buy into Trump derangement syndrome, to the point where you forget to cultivate relationships with people who in truth have had your back all these decades, underwriting your military security.
An excellent comment full of good questions. For me Munchau’s outstanding bloomer was to label the AfD “far right” and “not conservative” when in fact it has taken over many of the policies and voters whom Merkel shed from the CDU.
You might say that the party is “far right” as in “far to the right of the current consensus”, but isn’t everybody – everybody outside the administrative-metropolitan caste, that is? And isn’t the label therefore nothing but a linguistic dodge, designed to smear without trace, as it were?
He then plays with the toxic issue of anti-Semitism, acknowledging that it forms no part of the AfD’s official platform but insinuating its presence on the fringes of the party. As others have pointed out, the fringes of many parties – of right, left and centre (anyone recall the unpleasant remarks of a certain Liberal peeress with regard to Israel?) – are tainted by the views of cranks.
Worst of all, he ascribes Europe’s political malaise to economic woes, which are – as you have so unanswerably pointed out – the result of “consensus” decisions. And the diagnosis is wide of the mark in principle. Yes, riches can dull the ache of sorrow but if that sorrow proceeds from deeper, more intractable problems than mere poverty, then wealth is nothing but a sort of analgesic in the face of a cancer.
And the cancer we face is nothing short of civilisational suicide, in which the natural fabric of human society, which proceeds from family through clan towards tribe and nation, complete with natural and customary gender roles and stringent assimilationist demands, has been replaced by an abstract, moralistic, left-liberal-to-Marxist gibbet. Caught in this instrument of torture, human nature is twisted towards a degree of “virtue” so extreme, so self-destructive that it has settled a pall of depression across the western world. We will either escape this gibbet or it will kill us.
Judging by the comments on this forum over recent weeks, we are inevitably doomed.
The cancer of socialist entitlement has infected nearly every arm of the state, and the demos have obediently trotted behind.
It is NOT if but WHEN.
I am beginning to believe that this is so. How can we escape? Sterile, ageing, resettled, watched, outnumbered and controlled – we can rage against the dying of the light on websites like “UnHerd”, but as for stopping the decline – I foresee little chance now. As for the demos – well, quite!
Another Classical Liberal shibboleth bites the dust. The people is not, as we imagined or hoped, composed of sturdily independent or courageous individuals, but represents a flock, a herd indeed, moving to the sound of established signals and recognising uniforms, not the people who wear them. Hence when the pipes and trumpets sound the alarm over “Covid”, the flock trots into the pens, dons the masks and waits in obedient misery for the all clear.
Since humanity turns out to be a herding animal, perhaps those of us who bridle at the socialist gibbet must try to understand the real ties which give the herd its free, authentic identity and yes, as you pointed out months ago, these are ethno-cultural – although the Old Liberal in me still trembles at some of the implications in this point and seeks a degree of nuance and compromise…
But perhaps a confident ethnos rich in powerful rams, as distinct from a gelded demos, led by anxious bellwethers, might be rather better at distinguishing the shepherds from the wolves; might trust rather more to its sense of smell and distinguish friend from foe – and thus, paradoxically, recover some of that Old Liberal independence of spirit.
In a very recent interview for The Times, Lord Jonathan Sumption KS had this to say about the recent great COVID panic:-
“I thought it was a failure of government and a failure of self-confidence and nerve among the British people generally, which will have terrible consequences for future generations.”
As a rather aged Dinosaur I can only but agree with him.
As I see it the it main problem has been our simply appalling State education system. For years it has pursued an unparalleled campaign of vilification against everything we used to love and respect about England. In the process even if inadvertently, it has also destroyed the ‘family’ as a source of courage, pride and discipline.
Of course all my peer group think the same as I, but we are also very aware that we are a fast diminishing minority. Racked with angst we now realise we should have been more proactive when Heath destroyed Powell, when Crossland destroyed the Grammar Schools, and so many other disasters, but we weren’t!
However too late now, what’s done is done, and at least I will not see the “terrible consequences” that Lord Sumption so correctly predicts.
I think you pinpoint exactly the sources of our current malaise. As for proactively opposing the disasters, I can only suggest that it was very difficult, and for exactly the same reason that opposition is all but impossible today: the establishment had “come to a view” (the wrong one, naturally) and closed ranks to assert it. With no party to spearhead resistance, the public is faced with a choice: accept or rebel. Option two is always unattractive to a settled people like the English. The one occasion on which this establishment fortress was overcome was Brexit, and they’ll never let it happen again.
In 1971 the late George Shipway, a former Indian Army Cavalry Officer turned schoolmaster* published a brilliantly cynical novel entitled The Chilean Club.It described an attempted contemporary coup by a group of disgruntled old cavalry officers! Apparently it was NOT well received by the wretched establishment. I can thoroughly recommend!
A couple of years later, under the leadership of the late General Sir Walter Walker, KCB, CBE, DSO, we had the emergence of Civil Assistance (CA), which aimed support the civil power in the event of a General Strike, very much a possibility in the early 70’s. Fortunately things ‘improved’…..we joined the Common Market (joke) and the threat of anarchy subsided.
Now we seem to have gone ‘full circle’.
(* Cheam interestingly, where the young King to be was being tutored!)
In 1971 the late George Shipway, a former Indian Army Cavalry Officer turned schoolmaster* published a brilliantly cynical novel entitled The Chilean Club.It described an attempted contemporary coup by a group of disgruntled old cavalry officers! Apparently it was NOT well received by the wretched establishment. I can thoroughly recommend!
A couple of years later, under the leadership of the late General Sir Walter Walker, KCB, CBE, DSO, we had the emergence of Civil Assistance (CA), which aimed support the civil power in the event of a General Strike, very much a possibility in the early 70’s. Fortunately things ‘improved’…..we joined the Common Market (joke) and the threat of anarchy subsided.
Now we seem to have gone ‘full circle’.
(* Cheam interestingly, where the young King to be was being tutored!)
I think you pinpoint exactly the sources of our current malaise. As for proactively opposing the disasters, I can only suggest that it was very difficult, and for exactly the same reason that opposition is all but impossible today: the establishment had “come to a view” (the wrong one, naturally) and closed ranks to assert it. With no party to spearhead resistance, the public is faced with a choice: accept or rebel. Option two is always unattractive to a settled people like the English. The one occasion on which this establishment fortress was overcome was Brexit, and they’ll never let it happen again.
In a very recent interview for The Times, Lord Jonathan Sumption KS had this to say about the recent great COVID panic:-
“I thought it was a failure of government and a failure of self-confidence and nerve among the British people generally, which will have terrible consequences for future generations.”
As a rather aged Dinosaur I can only but agree with him.
As I see it the it main problem has been our simply appalling State education system. For years it has pursued an unparalleled campaign of vilification against everything we used to love and respect about England. In the process even if inadvertently, it has also destroyed the ‘family’ as a source of courage, pride and discipline.
Of course all my peer group think the same as I, but we are also very aware that we are a fast diminishing minority. Racked with angst we now realise we should have been more proactive when Heath destroyed Powell, when Crossland destroyed the Grammar Schools, and so many other disasters, but we weren’t!
However too late now, what’s done is done, and at least I will not see the “terrible consequences” that Lord Sumption so correctly predicts.
Interesting. I would bet far more on a tolerable and, quite possibly, benign outcome. I used to be a historian and, as a result, I am aware that at any point in time in the past there were usually at least five existential threats and that society was usually being very slow to respond to them. Yet over the last three hundred years things have got better and better – with only a few calamities en route. I would probably agree with you about the nature of the current threats but I can also list the historical parallels with our current predicament and how, eventually, we escaped. Maybe it’s different this time but probably not. I think the fatalism of many UnHerd readers is excessive. Time for that Roosevelt quote about fear?
Interesting. I would bet far more on a tolerable and, quite possibly, benign outcome. I used to be a historian and, as a result, I am aware that at any point in time in the past there were usually at least five existential threats and that society was usually being very slow to respond to them. Yet over the last three hundred years things have got better and better – with only a few calamities en route. I would probably agree with you about the nature of the current threats but I can also list the historical parallels with our current predicament and how, eventually, we escaped. Maybe it’s different this time but probably not. I think the fatalism of many UnHerd readers is excessive. Time for that Roosevelt quote about fear?
I am beginning to believe that this is so. How can we escape? Sterile, ageing, resettled, watched, outnumbered and controlled – we can rage against the dying of the light on websites like “UnHerd”, but as for stopping the decline – I foresee little chance now. As for the demos – well, quite!
Another Classical Liberal shibboleth bites the dust. The people is not, as we imagined or hoped, composed of sturdily independent or courageous individuals, but represents a flock, a herd indeed, moving to the sound of established signals and recognising uniforms, not the people who wear them. Hence when the pipes and trumpets sound the alarm over “Covid”, the flock trots into the pens, dons the masks and waits in obedient misery for the all clear.
Since humanity turns out to be a herding animal, perhaps those of us who bridle at the socialist gibbet must try to understand the real ties which give the herd its free, authentic identity and yes, as you pointed out months ago, these are ethno-cultural – although the Old Liberal in me still trembles at some of the implications in this point and seeks a degree of nuance and compromise…
But perhaps a confident ethnos rich in powerful rams, as distinct from a gelded demos, led by anxious bellwethers, might be rather better at distinguishing the shepherds from the wolves; might trust rather more to its sense of smell and distinguish friend from foe – and thus, paradoxically, recover some of that Old Liberal independence of spirit.
If you don’t mind, I’d rather not. Why dredge up names and risk the rekindling of reproaches heaped, like burning coals, upon the lady’s head at the time? I merely wished to point out that even centrist persons and forces are not immune to odd or disreputable opinions.
If you don’t mind, I’d rather not. Why dredge up names and risk the rekindling of reproaches heaped, like burning coals, upon the lady’s head at the time? I merely wished to point out that even centrist persons and forces are not immune to odd or disreputable opinions.
Ah, I see the answer you want. Woman back in the kitchen and the bedroom serving her husband, bringng up his kids and scraficing her own persona subjugated to this passive roll. It’s not going to work. The Taliban are working on it now, I’m sure you’ve noticed! It will fail. It will be an economic distaster.
Many women relish the role of wife and mother – which you libel as “subjugated” and “passive”. As many wives and mothers will tell you, they are anything but. And are they really better off parading about in imitation of males, coarsening their characters as the playthings of promiscuous boys and leaving it too late to have children; drinking themselves silly at weekends and dying alone or “cared for” by complete strangers? Do you really think your threadbare, selfish, strident, empty “liberalism” has anything more to offer than the quest for sensation followed by a miserable death? As for Islam – yes, it exaggerates badly; but traditional Christian civilisation did not deprive women of rights – hence monogamy; hence the expectation that men should be chaste and faithful, too. And the world it conjured into being was at least capable of reproducing itself. Your world, by contrast, is withering away within a single generation. Ach, you can keep it. Much good may it do you. Two sterile worlds now face each other where Islam meets the former Christendom: one, a place of female subjection to religious dogma; the other, a place of female subjection to feminist insanity.
Women have worked on farms for thousands of years and when factories, mines and mills, they worked in them. Pre 1800 , 80 % of Britons lived in the countryside and farms were self sufficient. Women made clothes, cooked, brewed, baked bread beer, grew herbs for food and medicines, made cheese, butter, curtains. Up to the early 18 th century many breweries were run by women as it was associated with brewing.
Only after the 1850s when industry and urbanisation produce a large middle class, perhaps 15 % of the population did women not work out side of the home. When it came to shops, pubs and small businesses women worked with the husband. The wives of farmers and minor gentry would in effect be running hotels, as they would be cooking for the unmarried farm labourers. Often the wife did the accounts. While the husband was away on the estate/farm on business the day to day running was done by wife ; the same for merchants.
In 1900 vast numbers of women worked as domestic staff who were very poorly paid, even in 1939.
The women writers such as Austen, Brontes, Virginia Wolf, etc come from the upper middle class who have inherited money and give a very distorted view of most womens lives; they never worked . Also in two world wars, vast numbers of women left domestic service and worked in factories, middle class women became nurses and even saw combat – WAAF in Battle of Britain , nurses and members of SOE. Nancy Wake GM was asked if she had any regrets ” Yes, I did not kill enough Nazis”. Nancy Wake – Wikipedia
Violette Szabo GC fought off members of the Das Reich 2 nd SS in order to enable her resistance colleague to escape. Violette Szabo – Wikipedia
Odette Hallows GC said her most important role was being a Mother Odette Hallowes – Wikipedia
British women have in their lives been SOE Agents or been nurses in combat, intelligence officers, Mothers and Wives; they are not mutually exlusive.
What I never understand is why women who say they are feminists do not ploclaim the heroics of of women who served so valiantly in WW1 and WW2.
Many women relish the role of wife and mother – which you libel as “subjugated” and “passive”. As many wives and mothers will tell you, they are anything but. And are they really better off parading about in imitation of males, coarsening their characters as the playthings of promiscuous boys and leaving it too late to have children; drinking themselves silly at weekends and dying alone or “cared for” by complete strangers? Do you really think your threadbare, selfish, strident, empty “liberalism” has anything more to offer than the quest for sensation followed by a miserable death? As for Islam – yes, it exaggerates badly; but traditional Christian civilisation did not deprive women of rights – hence monogamy; hence the expectation that men should be chaste and faithful, too. And the world it conjured into being was at least capable of reproducing itself. Your world, by contrast, is withering away within a single generation. Ach, you can keep it. Much good may it do you. Two sterile worlds now face each other where Islam meets the former Christendom: one, a place of female subjection to religious dogma; the other, a place of female subjection to feminist insanity.
Women have worked on farms for thousands of years and when factories, mines and mills, they worked in them. Pre 1800 , 80 % of Britons lived in the countryside and farms were self sufficient. Women made clothes, cooked, brewed, baked bread beer, grew herbs for food and medicines, made cheese, butter, curtains. Up to the early 18 th century many breweries were run by women as it was associated with brewing.
Only after the 1850s when industry and urbanisation produce a large middle class, perhaps 15 % of the population did women not work out side of the home. When it came to shops, pubs and small businesses women worked with the husband. The wives of farmers and minor gentry would in effect be running hotels, as they would be cooking for the unmarried farm labourers. Often the wife did the accounts. While the husband was away on the estate/farm on business the day to day running was done by wife ; the same for merchants.
In 1900 vast numbers of women worked as domestic staff who were very poorly paid, even in 1939.
The women writers such as Austen, Brontes, Virginia Wolf, etc come from the upper middle class who have inherited money and give a very distorted view of most womens lives; they never worked . Also in two world wars, vast numbers of women left domestic service and worked in factories, middle class women became nurses and even saw combat – WAAF in Battle of Britain , nurses and members of SOE. Nancy Wake GM was asked if she had any regrets ” Yes, I did not kill enough Nazis”. Nancy Wake – Wikipedia
Violette Szabo GC fought off members of the Das Reich 2 nd SS in order to enable her resistance colleague to escape. Violette Szabo – Wikipedia
Odette Hallows GC said her most important role was being a Mother Odette Hallowes – Wikipedia
British women have in their lives been SOE Agents or been nurses in combat, intelligence officers, Mothers and Wives; they are not mutually exlusive.
What I never understand is why women who say they are feminists do not ploclaim the heroics of of women who served so valiantly in WW1 and WW2.
Also the AfD was born from two libertarian professors in I think 2011, and was an antistifling regulation and bureaucracy party. Since they think rationally, not hysterically, they moved to an anti migrant position, and their votes ( and publicity) began to grow.
Judging by the comments on this forum over recent weeks, we are inevitably doomed.
The cancer of socialist entitlement has infected nearly every arm of the state, and the demos have obediently trotted behind.
It is NOT if but WHEN.
Ah, I see the answer you want. Woman back in the kitchen and the bedroom serving her husband, bringng up his kids and scraficing her own persona subjugated to this passive roll. It’s not going to work. The Taliban are working on it now, I’m sure you’ve noticed! It will fail. It will be an economic distaster.
Also the AfD was born from two libertarian professors in I think 2011, and was an antistifling regulation and bureaucracy party. Since they think rationally, not hysterically, they moved to an anti migrant position, and their votes ( and publicity) began to grow.
Demographics is the new bullshit. You can’t have a young population for ever as these youngsters sadly are bio-conditioned to age. It’s just another attempt and rationalisation to postpone addressing the issue of too many people.
The world would be a better place with fewer humans as we are not the only inhabitants of this biosphere and other creatures warrant their space as well but we are the species that is destroying it for all others including ourselves.
Please note that I am not advocating a cull. Nature has its own way of dealing with plagues. We just should be a little more thoughtful and slow down the catastrophe that is coming. Homo-sapiens should become a little more sapient. Really a lot more.
You are right, I believe, with regard to over population on this planet by humans. Nature does have it’s ways. Infertiility in men is rising fast across the planet, not just in the Westernise countries.
Reality is that overpopulation is happening mostly in Asia and Africa.
Most of this people, like Muslim countries and Africans are just devouring resources while contributing very little.
You are right, I believe, with regard to over population on this planet by humans. Nature does have it’s ways. Infertiility in men is rising fast across the planet, not just in the Westernise countries.
Reality is that overpopulation is happening mostly in Asia and Africa.
Most of this people, like Muslim countries and Africans are just devouring resources while contributing very little.
I agree with Simon. Excellent post. But I don’t think it’s so much a question of not seeing any politician with bright ideas. It’s more about political courage and leadership. British governments since 2016 and especially 2019 haven’t dared to take advantage of the nimbleness Brexit could confer to do things differently. The agility of the non-civil service based Vaccine Task Force pointed the way. But nobody in government nor the Labour opposition has the guts to say anything other than what they think will retain or win power.
Great post.
This guy was editor of FT Germany.
FT is globalisers Bible.
I am surprised that Freddie did not ask the obvious question:
How can you be friends with people like China who want to steal your technology and using slave labour usurp your place as the leading power in areas of technology your currently dominate?
It looks like Germany is implementing Morgentau plan all by itself.
The main danger for Europe is that when Germans feel unhappy for whatever reason they blame others for their misfortune.
And start marching.
It might not end well.
” … anti-semitism, which begs the question: how would Munchau then classify the UK Labour Party of the last several years under Corbyn, with figures like Ken Livingstone and Chris Williamson in positions of prominence – as in, was Labour far-right too?”
You’re somewhat naive if you buy the anti-Semitic Corbyn myth – it was an internal hit-job by top-brass Blairites in Labour:
“Despite Corbyn’s popularity, the party’s top unelected officials and parliamentarians fought him at every turn. Labour’s paid, professional staff deliberately made the daily tasks of party management difficult for Corbyn’s team. A 2020 leaked report containing Whatsapp messages and emails of party officials revealed not only that they had sought to undermine Corbyn’s 2017 general election bid, but also that they routinely referred to Corbyn, his team, and his few political allies in defamatory and degrading terms. “To them,” write journalists Gabriel Pogrund and Patrick Maguire in their book Left Out: The Inside Story of Labour Under Corbyn, “Corbyn and Corbynism was never legitimate.” https://jewishcurrents.org/the-jews-expelled-from-labour-over-antisemitism https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/unkillable-myths-corbyns-labour-party-and-anti-semitism
All that doesn’t in fact answer what you think Livingstone, Williamson et al, and the large numbers of members (whose actions are still visible for any who want to care to look for them, from driving out Jewish MPs to innumerable twitter threads about Israel and Jewish influence, to putting up a wave of pro Palastine flags at Labour conferences instead of the Red Flag, let alone the Union Jack) were up to? Do you believe they (and Corbyn) were the subject of witch hunts or the Jewish MPs?
**Edit: I infact had a bit more of a look at both those magazines, and while everyone knows where the MorningStar is coming from, JewishCurrents is unfamiliar to me. I have to say, the tone throughout is a throwback to narratives I used to hear in my student days – a tedious mix of victimhood and apologism. And that figures: the article you quoted is written by an American PhD student. Personally speaking, I stopped taking such people seriously decades ago.
All that doesn’t in fact answer what you think Livingstone, Williamson et al, and the large numbers of members (whose actions are still visible for any who want to care to look for them, from driving out Jewish MPs to innumerable twitter threads about Israel and Jewish influence, to putting up a wave of pro Palastine flags at Labour conferences instead of the Red Flag, let alone the Union Jack) were up to? Do you believe they (and Corbyn) were the subject of witch hunts or the Jewish MPs?
**Edit: I infact had a bit more of a look at both those magazines, and while everyone knows where the MorningStar is coming from, JewishCurrents is unfamiliar to me. I have to say, the tone throughout is a throwback to narratives I used to hear in my student days – a tedious mix of victimhood and apologism. And that figures: the article you quoted is written by an American PhD student. Personally speaking, I stopped taking such people seriously decades ago.
An excellent comment full of good questions. For me Munchau’s outstanding bloomer was to label the AfD “far right” and “not conservative” when in fact it has taken over many of the policies and voters whom Merkel shed from the CDU.
You might say that the party is “far right” as in “far to the right of the current consensus”, but isn’t everybody – everybody outside the administrative-metropolitan caste, that is? And isn’t the label therefore nothing but a linguistic dodge, designed to smear without trace, as it were?
He then plays with the toxic issue of anti-Semitism, acknowledging that it forms no part of the AfD’s official platform but insinuating its presence on the fringes of the party. As others have pointed out, the fringes of many parties – of right, left and centre (anyone recall the unpleasant remarks of a certain Liberal peeress with regard to Israel?) – are tainted by the views of cranks.
Worst of all, he ascribes Europe’s political malaise to economic woes, which are – as you have so unanswerably pointed out – the result of “consensus” decisions. And the diagnosis is wide of the mark in principle. Yes, riches can dull the ache of sorrow but if that sorrow proceeds from deeper, more intractable problems than mere poverty, then wealth is nothing but a sort of analgesic in the face of a cancer.
And the cancer we face is nothing short of civilisational suicide, in which the natural fabric of human society, which proceeds from family through clan towards tribe and nation, complete with natural and customary gender roles and stringent assimilationist demands, has been replaced by an abstract, moralistic, left-liberal-to-Marxist gibbet. Caught in this instrument of torture, human nature is twisted towards a degree of “virtue” so extreme, so self-destructive that it has settled a pall of depression across the western world. We will either escape this gibbet or it will kill us.
Demographics is the new bullshit. You can’t have a young population for ever as these youngsters sadly are bio-conditioned to age. It’s just another attempt and rationalisation to postpone addressing the issue of too many people.
The world would be a better place with fewer humans as we are not the only inhabitants of this biosphere and other creatures warrant their space as well but we are the species that is destroying it for all others including ourselves.
Please note that I am not advocating a cull. Nature has its own way of dealing with plagues. We just should be a little more thoughtful and slow down the catastrophe that is coming. Homo-sapiens should become a little more sapient. Really a lot more.
I agree with Simon. Excellent post. But I don’t think it’s so much a question of not seeing any politician with bright ideas. It’s more about political courage and leadership. British governments since 2016 and especially 2019 haven’t dared to take advantage of the nimbleness Brexit could confer to do things differently. The agility of the non-civil service based Vaccine Task Force pointed the way. But nobody in government nor the Labour opposition has the guts to say anything other than what they think will retain or win power.
Great post.
This guy was editor of FT Germany.
FT is globalisers Bible.
I am surprised that Freddie did not ask the obvious question:
How can you be friends with people like China who want to steal your technology and using slave labour usurp your place as the leading power in areas of technology your currently dominate?
It looks like Germany is implementing Morgentau plan all by itself.
The main danger for Europe is that when Germans feel unhappy for whatever reason they blame others for their misfortune.
And start marching.
It might not end well.
” … anti-semitism, which begs the question: how would Munchau then classify the UK Labour Party of the last several years under Corbyn, with figures like Ken Livingstone and Chris Williamson in positions of prominence – as in, was Labour far-right too?”
You’re somewhat naive if you buy the anti-Semitic Corbyn myth – it was an internal hit-job by top-brass Blairites in Labour:
“Despite Corbyn’s popularity, the party’s top unelected officials and parliamentarians fought him at every turn. Labour’s paid, professional staff deliberately made the daily tasks of party management difficult for Corbyn’s team. A 2020 leaked report containing Whatsapp messages and emails of party officials revealed not only that they had sought to undermine Corbyn’s 2017 general election bid, but also that they routinely referred to Corbyn, his team, and his few political allies in defamatory and degrading terms. “To them,” write journalists Gabriel Pogrund and Patrick Maguire in their book Left Out: The Inside Story of Labour Under Corbyn, “Corbyn and Corbynism was never legitimate.” https://jewishcurrents.org/the-jews-expelled-from-labour-over-antisemitism https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/unkillable-myths-corbyns-labour-party-and-anti-semitism
Prashant Kotak
8 months ago
An interesting interview, with many things I can agree about, but also many things to challenge. I get the sense that Munchau is a long term technocratic consensus insider, who has suddenly been slapped awake by patterns which have been brewing for a long time suddenly snapping into focus over the last couple of years, and as such he can see a bunch of stark realities ahead for Germany, but is nevertheless unwilling to totally let go of all of that past consensus. I know very little about the AFD, but he called them far-right, but any non-progressive hearing that in the UK will instantly know that UKIP and TBP and even the Tories are routinely labelled that, and so will dismiss that assessment even if it is actually true of the AFD. He also equated their political ecosystem with amongst other things, anti-semitism, which begs the question: how would Munchau then classify the UK Labour Party of the last several years under Corbyn, with figures like Ken Livingstone and Chris Williamson in positions of prominence – as in, was Labour far-right too? A big hole in the analysis for me was no mention of the absolutely dire state of German age demographics. I also didn’t get a clear sense of why Germany never engaged full scale in the tech industry over the last three decades, notwithstanding a very highly educated populace, not on the electronics side (chip makers etc) nor software. I also never got a very clear sense why Germany put their head on the chopping block by creating dependence on a Russia led by Putin, for godssake. I also didn’t get a clear picture of why they collectively appear to want to *still* maintain dependence on China, despite the lesson of getting kicked in the nads by Putin. I also never got a clear picture why this psychology has grown across Germany, where they will buy into a seeming merchantilist pragmatism about creating deep business ties with people who are very clearly not your friends, and yet simultaneously buy into Trump derangement syndrome, to the point where you forget to cultivate relationships with people who in truth have had your back all these decades, underwriting your military security.
Last edited 8 months ago by Prashant Kotak
Ian Barton
8 months ago
Strange that this article doesn’t really reference the influence of Merkel’s immigration policy on the level of support for AFD. Maybe technocrats just can’t see beyond the money – so they fail to understand the importance of democracy and historical culture in the minds of their demos.
Last edited 8 months ago by Ian Barton
Ian Barton
8 months ago
Strange that this article doesn’t really reference the influence of Merkel’s immigration policy on the level of support for AFD. Maybe technocrats just can’t see beyond the money – so they fail to understand the importance of democracy and historical culture in the minds of their demos.
Last edited 8 months ago by Ian Barton
Jim Veenbaas
8 months ago
Something is nagging me about these ‘west in decline’ interviews. Many of the analysts just assume we will snap out of it and all will be well again. That may be true or even likely, but it’s not inevitable. Problems in the west are very fixable, but it requires a level of competence that I don’t think the ruling elite possess at the moment.
I think you are right Jim about the level of competence in Western leaders. I would add a lack of interest in fixing the problems created by their own policies is also a major issue. They seem unable to think beyond the narrow neo-liberal economic consensus that no longer works for the ordinary citizen.
The quality of leadership is a global issue. Listened to an interesting thesis by Brian Klaas (UCL) regarding the increasing prevalence of psychopaths in power for a variety of reasons, including the fact that good people are not prepared to pay the price of intrusion and attack in modern public life. Jordan Petersen has also raised the issue of psychopaths’ ability to destabilise society on social media. Through the amplification of digital 3% of the society can take it down. Klaas also leans into the “you get the leader you deserve” argument …. humans abhor uncertainty. The “strong man” is an evolutionary bias we bring from a time when physicality was the determinant of a tribe’s survival.
Positively? Just finished Howe’s The Fourth Turning is Here. Leaders are forged from crisis, not identified in moments of calm before the storm. Let’s hope so.
That said, my bigger concern is not the issue of leadership, but the paucity of ideas for structuring our affairs. Far too much academic horsepower in the West is being expended on DIE, gaming research grants, dealing with weak student-pleasing administrators, and managing grade-hungry students challenging assessments, teaching and anything that gets in the way of the entitleent their £36k annual fees brings. Whilst not all ideas come from universities, it is a critical feeder into the wider society.
Come on.
It is not an issue of competence.
It is conscious decisions of higher orders to flood the West with immigrants from incompatible cultures to destroy societies, so they can be controlled.
Serfdom is coming.
I think you are right Jim about the level of competence in Western leaders. I would add a lack of interest in fixing the problems created by their own policies is also a major issue. They seem unable to think beyond the narrow neo-liberal economic consensus that no longer works for the ordinary citizen.
The quality of leadership is a global issue. Listened to an interesting thesis by Brian Klaas (UCL) regarding the increasing prevalence of psychopaths in power for a variety of reasons, including the fact that good people are not prepared to pay the price of intrusion and attack in modern public life. Jordan Petersen has also raised the issue of psychopaths’ ability to destabilise society on social media. Through the amplification of digital 3% of the society can take it down. Klaas also leans into the “you get the leader you deserve” argument …. humans abhor uncertainty. The “strong man” is an evolutionary bias we bring from a time when physicality was the determinant of a tribe’s survival.
Positively? Just finished Howe’s The Fourth Turning is Here. Leaders are forged from crisis, not identified in moments of calm before the storm. Let’s hope so.
That said, my bigger concern is not the issue of leadership, but the paucity of ideas for structuring our affairs. Far too much academic horsepower in the West is being expended on DIE, gaming research grants, dealing with weak student-pleasing administrators, and managing grade-hungry students challenging assessments, teaching and anything that gets in the way of the entitleent their £36k annual fees brings. Whilst not all ideas come from universities, it is a critical feeder into the wider society.
Come on.
It is not an issue of competence.
It is conscious decisions of higher orders to flood the West with immigrants from incompatible cultures to destroy societies, so they can be controlled.
Serfdom is coming.
Jim Veenbaas
8 months ago
Something is nagging me about these ‘west in decline’ interviews. Many of the analysts just assume we will snap out of it and all will be well again. That may be true or even likely, but it’s not inevitable. Problems in the west are very fixable, but it requires a level of competence that I don’t think the ruling elite possess at the moment.
Nick Faulks
8 months ago
I stopped reading when he kept describing Meloni as far-Right. To these people, anyone who shares the views of a majority of the population, rather than their own little circle, is far-Right.
Nick Faulks
8 months ago
I stopped reading when he kept describing Meloni as far-Right. To these people, anyone who shares the views of a majority of the population, rather than their own little circle, is far-Right.
Graeme
8 months ago
The heat pump thing should not be called a “mis-handling”. It’s impossible to consider a policy of impoverishing a huge number of citizens for a stupid and pointless reason – to force them to install “heat pumps” – and not think “This is a stupid idea, and my governing party will have nothing to do with it.” Impossible, that is, unless you’re a malign actor who hates people. But that hardly counts as “mis-handling”.
It is particuarly troubling for East Germany where the AfD is flourishing. .The cost of a heat pump is up to 20% of the average house price. East Germany has also not been infested with Green cultism in the same ways as West. The combination of proposed impoverishment and scepticism challenging.
It is particuarly troubling for East Germany where the AfD is flourishing. .The cost of a heat pump is up to 20% of the average house price. East Germany has also not been infested with Green cultism in the same ways as West. The combination of proposed impoverishment and scepticism challenging.
Graeme
8 months ago
The heat pump thing should not be called a “mis-handling”. It’s impossible to consider a policy of impoverishing a huge number of citizens for a stupid and pointless reason – to force them to install “heat pumps” – and not think “This is a stupid idea, and my governing party will have nothing to do with it.” Impossible, that is, unless you’re a malign actor who hates people. But that hardly counts as “mis-handling”.
Emmanuel MARTIN
8 months ago
An arrogant technocrat, full of shit and self entitlement. He’s a parasite whose ideas have been in power for the last 30 years, and led to a current political failure, but who think they should keep rerunning the show.
Europe has a post-democratic governance problem, a problem where majority opinion on some topics (such as immigration) does not t ranslate in policy. Yet this does not seem an issue for his highness Munchau
Rough times ahead
There’s the rub – he’s a financial journalist. What he said about German companies not being able to adjust is nonsense. The Mittelstand is incredibly inventive and nimble, but they are self-financed and never show up in the financial press, so he knows nothing about them.
There’s the rub – he’s a financial journalist. What he said about German companies not being able to adjust is nonsense. The Mittelstand is incredibly inventive and nimble, but they are self-financed and never show up in the financial press, so he knows nothing about them.
What a pathetic comment! He is a journalist and I was impressed by his candour.
Emmanuel MARTIN
8 months ago
An arrogant technocrat, full of shit and self entitlement. He’s a parasite whose ideas have been in power for the last 30 years, and led to a current political failure, but who think they should keep rerunning the show.
Europe has a post-democratic governance problem, a problem where majority opinion on some topics (such as immigration) does not t ranslate in policy. Yet this does not seem an issue for his highness Munchau
Rough times ahead
Chauncey Gardiner
8 months ago
“[The AfD is] on the far-Right: they have goals that I would consider incompatible with constitutional law. For example, …”
Excellent. We love examples in place of unsubstantiated hoo-hah:
“… one of the goals they recently pronounced was not only Germany’s exit from the EU (which is legal), but the disbandment of the EU, which is obviously not something that a country can do.”
That’s all you got? (!)
If you consider the AfD to be far-Right then in the UK Labour is far-Left.
I suspect the centre-right and centre-left want their cosy political cartel to continue so every party outside that narrow view must be labelled as extreme, whether it is true or not.
If you consider the AfD to be far-Right then in the UK Labour is far-Left.
I suspect the centre-right and centre-left want their cosy political cartel to continue so every party outside that narrow view must be labelled as extreme, whether it is true or not.
Chauncey Gardiner
8 months ago
“[The AfD is] on the far-Right: they have goals that I would consider incompatible with constitutional law. For example, …”
Excellent. We love examples in place of unsubstantiated hoo-hah:
“… one of the goals they recently pronounced was not only Germany’s exit from the EU (which is legal), but the disbandment of the EU, which is obviously not something that a country can do.”
That’s all you got? (!)
Last edited 8 months ago by Chauncey Gardiner
Stephanie Surface
8 months ago
The Malaise of Germany‘s economic downturn started all with the unprincipled policies of Merkel, always trying to run behind events, avoiding any conflict by closely following Germany’s left leaning MSM. As Southern European countries were facing major economic problems, having to stay within the strict rules of the Euro (which was created in the image of the Deutsche Mark), Merkel tried to overcome the problems with huge rescue packages, some bordering on being unconstitutional, instead of recognising the root of the Euro problem. Therefore the founders of the AfD came up with new ideas of loosening the rules and creating a Southern and a Northern Euro as an “Alternative” to her angry speech in the Bundestag:”There is no Alternative to the EU or the Euro!”
For me it is amazing how Münchau criticises the AfD as almost unconstitutional, because it supposedly wants to “dissolve” the whole of the EU. Never knew, that it was against the German Constitution to convert the current EU of unelected bureaucrats into a Union Of Nation States, very much a concept already envisioned by DeGaulle’s “Europe des Patries”. Of course nobody knows if this idea will be politically possible or even wanted by major European countries or even by most Germans.
After Fukushima physicists Merkel, who should now better, again tried to accommodate the fears of many Germans, mostly hyped again by MSM, that the perfectly functioning nuclear plants could malfunction (earthquakes in Germany ??) and decided, that they should all be shut down by 2023. No foresight or anticipation, that anything could go wrong in the relationship with Russia ( and her fickle leader Putin) , which would then become the main supplier of Germany’s all important energy.
Her open door migrant policy finally increased voters’ frustration by turning in masses to the AfD as all major parties showed no resistance or programs how to stem this flood of mostly young men from third world countries. By that time nearly all original Founders of the AfD left the party as the right wing nationalistic wing became more influential.
But the main point why Germany’s industry is in trouble, like many other highly industrialised Western countries, is “Green” government interference and the lack of real Free Market Capitalism, replaced by corporatism with huge rules and regulations according to the new “Green Religion”. Looking up Wolfgang Münchau on Wikipedia, he seems to have written a book called “The End of Social Market Capitalism” and supposedly criticised the founder of Germany’s successful “Wirtschaftswunder”, Ludwig Erhard. So I’ll take his advice with a grain of salt. Many highly successful German Mittelstands Companies are currently planning to move away, turning to countries with less regulation and better and cheaper energy supply.
Just one more point, why does he think that the U.K. will be better off in the long term? I assume, if the right government comes along and makes a bonfire of regulations and turns its back on the Green Religion, it will be the perfect place to open new high tech companies without any interference by the highly bureaucratic EU.
Last edited 8 months ago by Stephanie Surface
Stephanie Surface
8 months ago
The Malaise of Germany‘s economic downturn started all with the unprincipled policies of Merkel, always trying to run behind events, avoiding any conflict by closely following Germany’s left leaning MSM. As Southern European countries were facing major economic problems, having to stay within the strict rules of the Euro (which was created in the image of the Deutsche Mark), Merkel tried to overcome the problems with huge rescue packages, some bordering on being unconstitutional, instead of recognising the root of the Euro problem. Therefore the founders of the AfD came up with new ideas of loosening the rules and creating a Southern and a Northern Euro as an “Alternative” to her angry speech in the Bundestag:”There is no Alternative to the EU or the Euro!”
For me it is amazing how Münchau criticises the AfD as almost unconstitutional, because it supposedly wants to “dissolve” the whole of the EU. Never knew, that it was against the German Constitution to convert the current EU of unelected bureaucrats into a Union Of Nation States, very much a concept already envisioned by DeGaulle’s “Europe des Patries”. Of course nobody knows if this idea will be politically possible or even wanted by major European countries or even by most Germans.
After Fukushima physicists Merkel, who should now better, again tried to accommodate the fears of many Germans, mostly hyped again by MSM, that the perfectly functioning nuclear plants could malfunction (earthquakes in Germany ??) and decided, that they should all be shut down by 2023. No foresight or anticipation, that anything could go wrong in the relationship with Russia ( and her fickle leader Putin) , which would then become the main supplier of Germany’s all important energy.
Her open door migrant policy finally increased voters’ frustration by turning in masses to the AfD as all major parties showed no resistance or programs how to stem this flood of mostly young men from third world countries. By that time nearly all original Founders of the AfD left the party as the right wing nationalistic wing became more influential.
But the main point why Germany’s industry is in trouble, like many other highly industrialised Western countries, is “Green” government interference and the lack of real Free Market Capitalism, replaced by corporatism with huge rules and regulations according to the new “Green Religion”. Looking up Wolfgang Münchau on Wikipedia, he seems to have written a book called “The End of Social Market Capitalism” and supposedly criticised the founder of Germany’s successful “Wirtschaftswunder”, Ludwig Erhard. So I’ll take his advice with a grain of salt. Many highly successful German Mittelstands Companies are currently planning to move away, turning to countries with less regulation and better and cheaper energy supply.
Just one more point, why does he think that the U.K. will be better off in the long term? I assume, if the right government comes along and makes a bonfire of regulations and turns its back on the Green Religion, it will be the perfect place to open new high tech companies without any interference by the highly bureaucratic EU.
Last edited 8 months ago by Stephanie Surface
Jürg Gassmann
8 months ago
Let’s be very clear about some facts: The three main shocks to German business – COVID restrictions, rejection of cheap and reliable Russian natural gas, and rejection of nuclear energy – were all irrational, ideology-driven choices, not externally-imposed constraints (unless you count the US blowing up Nord Stream as an externally-imposed constraint – but it’s scarcely an Act of God).
Unlike the UK, Germany still has an excellent education system capable of turning out good mechanical technicians. If you serious believe that AI, cloud technology, and digitalisation is going keep planes flying, trains running, and power stations turning, then you need to shut down your smart phone and get out more.
I agree but increasingly those planes, trains and power plants are being built by the Chinese and will be serviced by them as well. The Asian countries continue to move up the value chain and compete with the technical expertise of the Germans. It will take them a bit longer with AI but not much longer
The dark secret about a consumer economy is that you need to put money in consumers’ pockets so they can spend. This is something bleeding heart liberals like Henry Ford understood, but most “free-market” brainiacs and WEFers who are “advising” our politicians evidently don’t.
Another dynamic that completely escapes most current politicians in the US as well as the EU and its members is that if you want to subsidise your consumers so that oligarchs can continue exploiting workers, then you need to generate a tax income that funds the subsidies. And that tax income won’t come from the oligarchs, they invest in politicians to make sure that doesn’t happen.
The dark secret about a consumer economy is that you need to put money in consumers’ pockets so they can spend. This is something bleeding heart liberals like Henry Ford understood, but most “free-market” brainiacs and WEFers who are “advising” our politicians evidently don’t.
Another dynamic that completely escapes most current politicians in the US as well as the EU and its members is that if you want to subsidise your consumers so that oligarchs can continue exploiting workers, then you need to generate a tax income that funds the subsidies. And that tax income won’t come from the oligarchs, they invest in politicians to make sure that doesn’t happen.
The interesting economic comparison is not with the UK of today but of the 1870s-90s. Committed to free trade it ceased to be the “workshop of the world” and lost ground steadily to inter alia Germany (the equivalent of China today). The British were complacent partly because at least they continued to provide the capital stock for the new factories overseas … until they weren’t. Now contemplate the investments in China by the German car industry as suggested by Munchau.
I agree but increasingly those planes, trains and power plants are being built by the Chinese and will be serviced by them as well. The Asian countries continue to move up the value chain and compete with the technical expertise of the Germans. It will take them a bit longer with AI but not much longer
The interesting economic comparison is not with the UK of today but of the 1870s-90s. Committed to free trade it ceased to be the “workshop of the world” and lost ground steadily to inter alia Germany (the equivalent of China today). The British were complacent partly because at least they continued to provide the capital stock for the new factories overseas … until they weren’t. Now contemplate the investments in China by the German car industry as suggested by Munchau.
Jürg Gassmann
8 months ago
Let’s be very clear about some facts: The three main shocks to German business – COVID restrictions, rejection of cheap and reliable Russian natural gas, and rejection of nuclear energy – were all irrational, ideology-driven choices, not externally-imposed constraints (unless you count the US blowing up Nord Stream as an externally-imposed constraint – but it’s scarcely an Act of God).
Unlike the UK, Germany still has an excellent education system capable of turning out good mechanical technicians. If you serious believe that AI, cloud technology, and digitalisation is going keep planes flying, trains running, and power stations turning, then you need to shut down your smart phone and get out more.
Last edited 8 months ago by Jürg Gassmann
Robert Hochbaum
8 months ago
I was surprised to hear Freddie use the term ‘reset’ in the interview wrt Putin and Russia. I recall Hillary Clinton presenting Sergey Lavrov with an actual reset button in 2009 (no joke). She was regularly talking about a reset with Putin. Later, in 2014, after the little green men took over Crimea and other areas of Ukraine (and also managed to blow a Malaysian airliner out of the sky) Clinton and Obama didn’t have much to say about the reset. Earlier (2001), George W Bush said he ‘looked into Putin’s eyes’ and ‘saw his soul’. Later, in 2018, he lamely said it looked like Putin had ‘changed’ (sounds like a marriage with an abusive spouse who maybe was always abusive and never actually changed except the occasional shots turned into actual beatings). Aleppo, Freddie? There’s a reason Sorovikin is called ‘General Armageddon’ and I’m pretty sure he had Putin’s approval. Lastly, we know of Russian mercenary armies (oops!, I mean Private Military Contractors no doubt performing Special Military Operations) working in Africa now to secure resources. Oh! Let’s not forget the murders committed on UK soil of Putin’s political enemies.
Whatever one thinks of the war in Ukraine, looking to do a ‘reset’ with Mr. Putin seems like a fool’s errand. History has shown that.
Robert Hochbaum
8 months ago
I was surprised to hear Freddie use the term ‘reset’ in the interview wrt Putin and Russia. I recall Hillary Clinton presenting Sergey Lavrov with an actual reset button in 2009 (no joke). She was regularly talking about a reset with Putin. Later, in 2014, after the little green men took over Crimea and other areas of Ukraine (and also managed to blow a Malaysian airliner out of the sky) Clinton and Obama didn’t have much to say about the reset. Earlier (2001), George W Bush said he ‘looked into Putin’s eyes’ and ‘saw his soul’. Later, in 2018, he lamely said it looked like Putin had ‘changed’ (sounds like a marriage with an abusive spouse who maybe was always abusive and never actually changed except the occasional shots turned into actual beatings). Aleppo, Freddie? There’s a reason Sorovikin is called ‘General Armageddon’ and I’m pretty sure he had Putin’s approval. Lastly, we know of Russian mercenary armies (oops!, I mean Private Military Contractors no doubt performing Special Military Operations) working in Africa now to secure resources. Oh! Let’s not forget the murders committed on UK soil of Putin’s political enemies.
Whatever one thinks of the war in Ukraine, looking to do a ‘reset’ with Mr. Putin seems like a fool’s errand. History has shown that.
Norman Powers
8 months ago
they have goals that I would consider incompatible with constitutional law. For example, one of the goals they recently pronounced was not only Germany’s exit from the EU (which is legal)
So this goal is illegal but also legal. Uh, got it. And…
the disbandment of the EU, which is obviously not something that a country can do
… which is also legal. So they have goals he’d consider incompatible with the constitution but can’t name any, and the EU was built by countries that wanted to create and expand it, but can’t be unbuilt the same way because ????
under systems of proportional representation, it is difficult for centrist parties to form classic coalitions of the Left or Right.
No it isn’t difficult. The system allows any kind of coalition. The fact that Germany’s self-proclaimed “centrist” parties refuse to work with the AfD, which has a bog-standard conservative manifesto, says a lot about those parties and nothing about PR as a system.
The rest of the article is slightly better, but not by much.
It’s always such a slog with such establishment types. Illogical statements flow like water. They seem to “think” by memetically copying claims from people around them giving results very reminiscent of AI when you push it hard. The sentences are grammatically correct but the ideas within them don’t make sense or connect to each other in logical ways. False claims and non-sequiturs are the order of the day.
Freddie usually challenges his interviewees intellectually, but here Münchau gets off quite easily I thought.
Oh well he did predict the UK as being in a better position in 10yrs time. Hope springs……
Norman Powers
8 months ago
they have goals that I would consider incompatible with constitutional law. For example, one of the goals they recently pronounced was not only Germany’s exit from the EU (which is legal)
So this goal is illegal but also legal. Uh, got it. And…
the disbandment of the EU, which is obviously not something that a country can do
… which is also legal. So they have goals he’d consider incompatible with the constitution but can’t name any, and the EU was built by countries that wanted to create and expand it, but can’t be unbuilt the same way because ????
under systems of proportional representation, it is difficult for centrist parties to form classic coalitions of the Left or Right.
No it isn’t difficult. The system allows any kind of coalition. The fact that Germany’s self-proclaimed “centrist” parties refuse to work with the AfD, which has a bog-standard conservative manifesto, says a lot about those parties and nothing about PR as a system.
The rest of the article is slightly better, but not by much.
It’s always such a slog with such establishment types. Illogical statements flow like water. They seem to “think” by memetically copying claims from people around them giving results very reminiscent of AI when you push it hard. The sentences are grammatically correct but the ideas within them don’t make sense or connect to each other in logical ways. False claims and non-sequiturs are the order of the day.
Freddie usually challenges his interviewees intellectually, but here Münchau gets off quite easily I thought.
Last edited 8 months ago by Norman Powers
Brendan O'Leary
8 months ago
It wasn’t that long ago that opposition to the EU was a left wing policy.
It wasn’t that long ago that opposition to the EU was a left wing policy.
Katharine Eyre
8 months ago
“The much bigger danger for the EU is that it becomes toothless and ineffective”.
This is not an inchoate risk that could be realised in the future. The EU IS toothless and ineffective in all but minor situations. It is also a German sickness to overestimate the power and the ability of the EU.
Otherwise a good Interview, I’m a big fan of Münchau.
For me Münchau is part of the left leaning German/European MSM. He was co-editor of the German Financial Times… The EU leadership is a menace and has too much power on every day life, especially business in the EU. UvL is a close friend of Merkel’s and screwed up every post she had. Yesterday a “biting” new media law, DSA, kicked in, checking social media for “harmful” content. This isn’t toothless and the rules and regulations the commission seems to come up daily aren’t toothless either
For me Münchau is part of the left leaning German/European MSM. He was co-editor of the German Financial Times… The EU leadership is a menace and has too much power on every day life, especially business in the EU. UvL is a close friend of Merkel’s and screwed up every post she had. Yesterday a “biting” new media law, DSA, kicked in, checking social media for “harmful” content. This isn’t toothless and the rules and regulations the commission seems to come up daily aren’t toothless either
Katharine Eyre
8 months ago
“The much bigger danger for the EU is that it becomes toothless and ineffective”.
This is not an inchoate risk that could be realised in the future. The EU IS toothless and ineffective in all but minor situations. It is also a German sickness to overestimate the power and the ability of the EU.
Otherwise a good Interview, I’m a big fan of Münchau.
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
8 months ago
“Voters are not entirely stupid”
Well that explain a lot of how Mr Munchau sees the world
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
8 months ago
“Voters are not entirely stupid”
Well that explain a lot of how Mr Munchau sees the world
Andrzej Wasniewski
8 months ago
“No one would ever go into a coalition with the AfD.” That simply means that in 5 years, after complete collapse of the Teutonic Green Walhalla, AfD will not need any coalition to form the government. The green Germany is one gigantic lie anyway, it has been always running on Russian gas, now on Polish and German coal. And, as we found out, they see the “solution” in increasing the dependence on China and Russia. And leave NATO.I hate to bring to their attention that the US bases in Germany have always served a double purpose: to defend Europe against Russia and to make sure that there will be no need for the Operation Overlord II.
Germans would love the business as usual with Putin. In addition to economic gains they want to have leverage over Central and Eastern Europe again. Nordstream II was build to bypass those countries and made them entirely energy dependent on Germany and Russia.
In terms of digital technology Germany and, EU in general, are absolute world “leaders” in regulating it. That’s a proven recipe for progress.
Andrzej Wasniewski
8 months ago
“No one would ever go into a coalition with the AfD.” That simply means that in 5 years, after complete collapse of the Teutonic Green Walhalla, AfD will not need any coalition to form the government. The green Germany is one gigantic lie anyway, it has been always running on Russian gas, now on Polish and German coal. And, as we found out, they see the “solution” in increasing the dependence on China and Russia. And leave NATO.I hate to bring to their attention that the US bases in Germany have always served a double purpose: to defend Europe against Russia and to make sure that there will be no need for the Operation Overlord II.
Germans would love the business as usual with Putin. In addition to economic gains they want to have leverage over Central and Eastern Europe again. Nordstream II was build to bypass those countries and made them entirely energy dependent on Germany and Russia.
In terms of digital technology Germany and, EU in general, are absolute world “leaders” in regulating it. That’s a proven recipe for progress.
SIMON WOLF
8 months ago
Germany was the big beneficiary of the Euro.If its economy continues to decline then money will flow out and into countries like Greece who under a re-elected Greek Conservative govt are attracting increasing foreign investment.It would be ironical if in a few years time Germany wants to leave the Euro whilst Greece ,Ireland,Italy and Portugal want to stay in
SIMON WOLF
8 months ago
Germany was the big beneficiary of the Euro.If its economy continues to decline then money will flow out and into countries like Greece who under a re-elected Greek Conservative govt are attracting increasing foreign investment.It would be ironical if in a few years time Germany wants to leave the Euro whilst Greece ,Ireland,Italy and Portugal want to stay in
Andrzej Wasniewski
8 months ago
Anyone who visited Germany great cities and cultural centers must be full of admiration. IF you visit Munich now, one of the most livable culturally rich cities in the world you wonder why would anyone not want to be German.
But they squandered all of this in their fanatical, never ending drive to dominate. EU for Germany is just a tool. Munchau is just another enthusiast of German hegemony and he is afraid that it may be challenged. So let’s abandon relationship with the US, leave NATO, and try to restore German hegemony in Europe working with Putin and Xi.
Merkel pushed UK out of Europe and her unilateral move to open the borders of Europe to refugees started slow demise of EU. But they cannot help themselves. They have to rule if not by military power than by economic dominance. But at the same time, being fanatics they are, they determined to push the Green Teutonic Valhalla suicide pact on their neighbors.
The solution is always the same: looking for “allies” that would help them impose their rule on Europe. US will not do so of course they desperately want get back to working with Russia on the “softer” Ribbentrop-Molotov pact to squeeze Eastern Europe. Russia overtaking Ukraine and terrorizing Poland was the perfect outcome for Germans. It did not work but they are not abandoning hope.
They think that Russians will forget the millions murdered by Nazis, that Poland will forget six years of terror and slaughter of millions of Poles and Jews, that Europe would tolerate any unilateral imposition from Germany. They are mad.
When in Poland during martial law, I asked a room full of people if they hated the Russians. Someone whose father was shot at Katyn answered, “I don’t like them,” he said. “They’ve stolen our land, burnt our universities and churches and raped our women. And we’ve done the same.” His voice trailed. But the Germans…”
”What’s the difference?”
”They tried to destroy us and our language for no other reason than we existed”
The room nodded very firmly in agreement. Time has passed and there are more Germans now than then who cannot be held responsible in any way whatsoever for Germany’s horrendous past. There are undoubtedly many honourable Germans.
But reunited Germany is barely 30 years old. It was born from two appalling regimes. The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones. WWII for Poland only ended in 1989. We in the west have no idea what it was like to live with the everyday constant suspicion, lack of trust, deceit, lies, propaganda, corruption, betrayals, cruelty and grey depressive atmosphere amongst our neighbours, family and colleagues.
Andrezj, I don’t know whether you’re right as it’s a while since I’ve been to Germany and Poland. But I certainly know that anyone who down votes you must explain why. Because I know where you’re coming from.
When in Poland during martial law, I asked a room full of people if they hated the Russians. Someone whose father was shot at Katyn answered, “I don’t like them,” he said. “They’ve stolen our land, burnt our universities and churches and raped our women. And we’ve done the same.” His voice trailed. But the Germans…”
”What’s the difference?”
”They tried to destroy us and our language for no other reason than we existed”
The room nodded very firmly in agreement. Time has passed and there are more Germans now than then who cannot be held responsible in any way whatsoever for Germany’s horrendous past. There are undoubtedly many honourable Germans.
But reunited Germany is barely 30 years old. It was born from two appalling regimes. The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones. WWII for Poland only ended in 1989. We in the west have no idea what it was like to live with the everyday constant suspicion, lack of trust, deceit, lies, propaganda, corruption, betrayals, cruelty and grey depressive atmosphere amongst our neighbours, family and colleagues.
Andrezj, I don’t know whether you’re right as it’s a while since I’ve been to Germany and Poland. But I certainly know that anyone who down votes you must explain why. Because I know where you’re coming from.
Andrzej Wasniewski
8 months ago
Anyone who visited Germany great cities and cultural centers must be full of admiration. IF you visit Munich now, one of the most livable culturally rich cities in the world you wonder why would anyone not want to be German.
But they squandered all of this in their fanatical, never ending drive to dominate. EU for Germany is just a tool. Munchau is just another enthusiast of German hegemony and he is afraid that it may be challenged. So let’s abandon relationship with the US, leave NATO, and try to restore German hegemony in Europe working with Putin and Xi.
Merkel pushed UK out of Europe and her unilateral move to open the borders of Europe to refugees started slow demise of EU. But they cannot help themselves. They have to rule if not by military power than by economic dominance. But at the same time, being fanatics they are, they determined to push the Green Teutonic Valhalla suicide pact on their neighbors.
The solution is always the same: looking for “allies” that would help them impose their rule on Europe. US will not do so of course they desperately want get back to working with Russia on the “softer” Ribbentrop-Molotov pact to squeeze Eastern Europe. Russia overtaking Ukraine and terrorizing Poland was the perfect outcome for Germans. It did not work but they are not abandoning hope.
They think that Russians will forget the millions murdered by Nazis, that Poland will forget six years of terror and slaughter of millions of Poles and Jews, that Europe would tolerate any unilateral imposition from Germany. They are mad.
Last edited 8 months ago by Andrzej Wasniewski
John Riordan
8 months ago
I agree with pretty much everything here – very insightful it all is. I very much hope that Germany doesn’t fall back into a loss of interest in geostrategic concerns – it would guarantee Europe’s slide into global insignificance.
On the matter of Brexit he’s right too. The lack of vision for a model of independent self-government has allowed Brexit to become a BRINO outcome – so far, that is. So he’s right that we don’t want to make a radical economic pivot because the “we” he’s talking about is a democratic consensus with a mandate to carry it out, not just the voices of the Brexit victors from before the 2019 general election, and that consensus doesn’t presently exist. Maybe we’ll reach one, maybe not.
Last edited 8 months ago by John Riordan
Tyler Durden
8 months ago
Only one person who loves Mrs Merkel more than me – Mistah Putin.
He sold Germany and Europe a lot of gas, and now the vacuum left in his absence has led the populist Right to assert themselves against the Atlanticists.
As usual, Washington and London stand squarely behind such maneouvres.
Tyler Durden
8 months ago
Only one person who loves Mrs Merkel more than me – Mistah Putin.
He sold Germany and Europe a lot of gas, and now the vacuum left in his absence has led the populist Right to assert themselves against the Atlanticists.
As usual, Washington and London stand squarely behind such maneouvres.
r ll
8 months ago
Merkel dragged the country down, do not forget she was from East Germany as well. She let in too many immigrants , far too many into a country of that size, and all muslim, a liefstyle that contradicts what Germany is about, I know, because i lived there in 1974-1977 and 1984 in the US Amry. It was a great place then, but the Germans need to drop the “guilt complex” from WW2 they still carry around like a “ball& chain”, its not helpful to move forward. Germany willl get better with time, and gets back the middle and embracing their culture.
r ll
8 months ago
Merkel dragged the country down, do not forget she was from East Germany as well. She let in too many immigrants , far too many into a country of that size, and all muslim, a liefstyle that contradicts what Germany is about, I know, because i lived there in 1974-1977 and 1984 in the US Amry. It was a great place then, but the Germans need to drop the “guilt complex” from WW2 they still carry around like a “ball& chain”, its not helpful to move forward. Germany willl get better with time, and gets back the middle and embracing their culture.
Charles Stanhope
8 months ago
Lest we forget:-
“Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt,
Wenn es stets zu Schutz und Trutze
Brüderlich zusammenhält.
Von der Maas bis an die Memel,
Von der Etsch bis an den Belt,
Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt.”
Charles Stanhope
8 months ago
Lest we forget:-
“Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt,
Wenn es stets zu Schutz und Trutze
Brüderlich zusammenhält.
Von der Maas bis an die Memel,
Von der Etsch bis an den Belt,
Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt.”
Have you been drinking Charles? Your comments, not that I agree with many of them, are usually better than this . In the outer reaches, it never ceases to be contemplated.
In future Keating please address me as Stanhope or Mr Stanhope, and not as Charles, as I find such familiarity quite unnecessary, not to say a little vulgar.
As to your insolent question no, never before 6pm, what about you?
I am glad to hear that in the “outer reaches” as you charmingly call them, ‘they’ are thinking of the future. Given your misanthropic remarks of earlier today I presume you must support them?
Perhaps Mr Stanhope was thinking about Canada’s MAID legislation which now accounts for 7% of deaths in Quebec. History suggests slippery slopes abound, particularly when the body is no longer held to be the creation of a higher power (whatever that might be).
In future Keating please address me as Stanhope or Mr Stanhope, and not as Charles, as I find such familiarity quite unnecessary, not to say a little vulgar.
As to your insolent question no, never before 6pm, what about you?
I am glad to hear that in the “outer reaches” as you charmingly call them, ‘they’ are thinking of the future. Given your misanthropic remarks of earlier today I presume you must support them?
Perhaps Mr Stanhope was thinking about Canada’s MAID legislation which now accounts for 7% of deaths in Quebec. History suggests slippery slopes abound, particularly when the body is no longer held to be the creation of a higher power (whatever that might be).
Have you been drinking Charles? Your comments, not that I agree with many of them, are usually better than this . In the outer reaches, it never ceases to be contemplated.
An interesting interview, with many things I can agree about, but also many things to challenge. I get the sense that Munchau is a long term technocratic consensus insider, who has suddenly been slapped awake by patterns which have been brewing for a long time suddenly snapping into focus over the last couple of years, and as such he can see a bunch of stark realities ahead for Germany, but is nevertheless unwilling to totally let go of all of that past consensus. I know very little about the AFD, but he called them far-right, but any non-progressive hearing that in the UK will instantly know that UKIP and TBP and even the Tories are routinely labelled that, and so will dismiss that assessment even if it is actually true of the AFD. He also equated their political ecosystem with amongst other things, anti-semitism, which begs the question: how would Munchau then classify the UK Labour Party of the last several years under Corbyn, with figures like Ken Livingstone and Chris Williamson in positions of prominence – as in, was Labour far-right too? A big hole in the analysis for me was no mention of the absolutely dire state of German age demographics. I also didn’t get a clear sense of why Germany never engaged full scale in the tech industry over the last three decades, notwithstanding a very highly educated populace, not on the electronics side (chip makers etc) nor software. I also never got a very clear sense why Germany put their head on the chopping block by creating dependence on a Russia led by Putin, for godssake. I also didn’t get a clear picture of why they collectively appear to want to *still* maintain dependence on China, despite the lesson of getting kicked in the nads by Putin. I also never got a clear picture why this psychology has grown across Germany, where they will buy into a seeming merchantilist pragmatism about creating deep business ties with people who are very clearly not your friends, and yet simultaneously buy into Trump derangement syndrome, to the point where you forget to cultivate relationships with people who in truth have had your back all these decades, underwriting your military security.
An excellent comment full of good questions. For me Munchau’s outstanding bloomer was to label the AfD “far right” and “not conservative” when in fact it has taken over many of the policies and voters whom Merkel shed from the CDU.
You might say that the party is “far right” as in “far to the right of the current consensus”, but isn’t everybody – everybody outside the administrative-metropolitan caste, that is? And isn’t the label therefore nothing but a linguistic dodge, designed to smear without trace, as it were?
He then plays with the toxic issue of anti-Semitism, acknowledging that it forms no part of the AfD’s official platform but insinuating its presence on the fringes of the party. As others have pointed out, the fringes of many parties – of right, left and centre (anyone recall the unpleasant remarks of a certain Liberal peeress with regard to Israel?) – are tainted by the views of cranks.
Worst of all, he ascribes Europe’s political malaise to economic woes, which are – as you have so unanswerably pointed out – the result of “consensus” decisions. And the diagnosis is wide of the mark in principle. Yes, riches can dull the ache of sorrow but if that sorrow proceeds from deeper, more intractable problems than mere poverty, then wealth is nothing but a sort of analgesic in the face of a cancer.
And the cancer we face is nothing short of civilisational suicide, in which the natural fabric of human society, which proceeds from family through clan towards tribe and nation, complete with natural and customary gender roles and stringent assimilationist demands, has been replaced by an abstract, moralistic, left-liberal-to-Marxist gibbet. Caught in this instrument of torture, human nature is twisted towards a degree of “virtue” so extreme, so self-destructive that it has settled a pall of depression across the western world. We will either escape this gibbet or it will kill us.
Judging by the comments on this forum over recent weeks, we are inevitably doomed.
The cancer of socialist entitlement has infected nearly every arm of the state, and the demos have obediently trotted behind.
It is NOT if but WHEN.
I am beginning to believe that this is so. How can we escape? Sterile, ageing, resettled, watched, outnumbered and controlled – we can rage against the dying of the light on websites like “UnHerd”, but as for stopping the decline – I foresee little chance now. As for the demos – well, quite!
Another Classical Liberal shibboleth bites the dust. The people is not, as we imagined or hoped, composed of sturdily independent or courageous individuals, but represents a flock, a herd indeed, moving to the sound of established signals and recognising uniforms, not the people who wear them. Hence when the pipes and trumpets sound the alarm over “Covid”, the flock trots into the pens, dons the masks and waits in obedient misery for the all clear.
Since humanity turns out to be a herding animal, perhaps those of us who bridle at the socialist gibbet must try to understand the real ties which give the herd its free, authentic identity and yes, as you pointed out months ago, these are ethno-cultural – although the Old Liberal in me still trembles at some of the implications in this point and seeks a degree of nuance and compromise…
But perhaps a confident ethnos rich in powerful rams, as distinct from a gelded demos, led by anxious bellwethers, might be rather better at distinguishing the shepherds from the wolves; might trust rather more to its sense of smell and distinguish friend from foe – and thus, paradoxically, recover some of that Old Liberal independence of spirit.
In a very recent interview for The Times, Lord Jonathan Sumption KS had this to say about the recent great COVID panic:-
“I thought it was a failure of government and a failure of self-confidence and nerve among the British people generally, which will have terrible consequences for future generations.”
As a rather aged Dinosaur I can only but agree with him.
As I see it the it main problem has been our simply appalling State education system. For years it has pursued an unparalleled campaign of vilification against everything we used to love and respect about England. In the process even if inadvertently, it has also destroyed the ‘family’ as a source of courage, pride and discipline.
Of course all my peer group think the same as I, but we are also very aware that we are a fast diminishing minority. Racked with angst we now realise we should have been more proactive when Heath destroyed Powell, when Crossland destroyed the Grammar Schools, and so many other disasters, but we weren’t!
However too late now, what’s done is done, and at least I will not see the “terrible consequences” that Lord Sumption so correctly predicts.
I think you pinpoint exactly the sources of our current malaise. As for proactively opposing the disasters, I can only suggest that it was very difficult, and for exactly the same reason that opposition is all but impossible today: the establishment had “come to a view” (the wrong one, naturally) and closed ranks to assert it. With no party to spearhead resistance, the public is faced with a choice: accept or rebel. Option two is always unattractive to a settled people like the English. The one occasion on which this establishment fortress was overcome was Brexit, and they’ll never let it happen again.
In 1971 the late George Shipway, a former Indian Army Cavalry Officer turned schoolmaster* published a brilliantly cynical novel entitled The Chilean Club.It described an attempted contemporary coup by a group of disgruntled old cavalry officers! Apparently it was NOT well received by the wretched establishment. I can thoroughly recommend!
A couple of years later, under the leadership of the late General Sir Walter Walker, KCB, CBE, DSO, we had the emergence of Civil Assistance (CA), which aimed support the civil power in the event of a General Strike, very much a possibility in the early 70’s. Fortunately things ‘improved’…..we joined the Common Market (joke) and the threat of anarchy subsided.
Now we seem to have gone ‘full circle’.
(* Cheam interestingly, where the young King to be was being tutored!)
In 1971 the late George Shipway, a former Indian Army Cavalry Officer turned schoolmaster* published a brilliantly cynical novel entitled The Chilean Club.It described an attempted contemporary coup by a group of disgruntled old cavalry officers! Apparently it was NOT well received by the wretched establishment. I can thoroughly recommend!
A couple of years later, under the leadership of the late General Sir Walter Walker, KCB, CBE, DSO, we had the emergence of Civil Assistance (CA), which aimed support the civil power in the event of a General Strike, very much a possibility in the early 70’s. Fortunately things ‘improved’…..we joined the Common Market (joke) and the threat of anarchy subsided.
Now we seem to have gone ‘full circle’.
(* Cheam interestingly, where the young King to be was being tutored!)
I think you pinpoint exactly the sources of our current malaise. As for proactively opposing the disasters, I can only suggest that it was very difficult, and for exactly the same reason that opposition is all but impossible today: the establishment had “come to a view” (the wrong one, naturally) and closed ranks to assert it. With no party to spearhead resistance, the public is faced with a choice: accept or rebel. Option two is always unattractive to a settled people like the English. The one occasion on which this establishment fortress was overcome was Brexit, and they’ll never let it happen again.
In a very recent interview for The Times, Lord Jonathan Sumption KS had this to say about the recent great COVID panic:-
“I thought it was a failure of government and a failure of self-confidence and nerve among the British people generally, which will have terrible consequences for future generations.”
As a rather aged Dinosaur I can only but agree with him.
As I see it the it main problem has been our simply appalling State education system. For years it has pursued an unparalleled campaign of vilification against everything we used to love and respect about England. In the process even if inadvertently, it has also destroyed the ‘family’ as a source of courage, pride and discipline.
Of course all my peer group think the same as I, but we are also very aware that we are a fast diminishing minority. Racked with angst we now realise we should have been more proactive when Heath destroyed Powell, when Crossland destroyed the Grammar Schools, and so many other disasters, but we weren’t!
However too late now, what’s done is done, and at least I will not see the “terrible consequences” that Lord Sumption so correctly predicts.
I really hope you are wrong.
But I would not bet more than 10 quid on it.
Even at odds of 100 to 1.
Interesting. I would bet far more on a tolerable and, quite possibly, benign outcome. I used to be a historian and, as a result, I am aware that at any point in time in the past there were usually at least five existential threats and that society was usually being very slow to respond to them. Yet over the last three hundred years things have got better and better – with only a few calamities en route. I would probably agree with you about the nature of the current threats but I can also list the historical parallels with our current predicament and how, eventually, we escaped. Maybe it’s different this time but probably not. I think the fatalism of many UnHerd readers is excessive. Time for that Roosevelt quote about fear?
Interesting. I would bet far more on a tolerable and, quite possibly, benign outcome. I used to be a historian and, as a result, I am aware that at any point in time in the past there were usually at least five existential threats and that society was usually being very slow to respond to them. Yet over the last three hundred years things have got better and better – with only a few calamities en route. I would probably agree with you about the nature of the current threats but I can also list the historical parallels with our current predicament and how, eventually, we escaped. Maybe it’s different this time but probably not. I think the fatalism of many UnHerd readers is excessive. Time for that Roosevelt quote about fear?
I am beginning to believe that this is so. How can we escape? Sterile, ageing, resettled, watched, outnumbered and controlled – we can rage against the dying of the light on websites like “UnHerd”, but as for stopping the decline – I foresee little chance now. As for the demos – well, quite!
Another Classical Liberal shibboleth bites the dust. The people is not, as we imagined or hoped, composed of sturdily independent or courageous individuals, but represents a flock, a herd indeed, moving to the sound of established signals and recognising uniforms, not the people who wear them. Hence when the pipes and trumpets sound the alarm over “Covid”, the flock trots into the pens, dons the masks and waits in obedient misery for the all clear.
Since humanity turns out to be a herding animal, perhaps those of us who bridle at the socialist gibbet must try to understand the real ties which give the herd its free, authentic identity and yes, as you pointed out months ago, these are ethno-cultural – although the Old Liberal in me still trembles at some of the implications in this point and seeks a degree of nuance and compromise…
But perhaps a confident ethnos rich in powerful rams, as distinct from a gelded demos, led by anxious bellwethers, might be rather better at distinguishing the shepherds from the wolves; might trust rather more to its sense of smell and distinguish friend from foe – and thus, paradoxically, recover some of that Old Liberal independence of spirit.
I really hope you are wrong.
But I would not bet more than 10 quid on it.
Even at odds of 100 to 1.
“…Unpleasant remarks of a certain Liberal peeress with regard to Israel…” Can you be more specific?
If you don’t mind, I’d rather not. Why dredge up names and risk the rekindling of reproaches heaped, like burning coals, upon the lady’s head at the time? I merely wished to point out that even centrist persons and forces are not immune to odd or disreputable opinions.
If you don’t mind, I’d rather not. Why dredge up names and risk the rekindling of reproaches heaped, like burning coals, upon the lady’s head at the time? I merely wished to point out that even centrist persons and forces are not immune to odd or disreputable opinions.
Ah, I see the answer you want. Woman back in the kitchen and the bedroom serving her husband, bringng up his kids and scraficing her own persona subjugated to this passive roll. It’s not going to work. The Taliban are working on it now, I’m sure you’ve noticed! It will fail. It will be an economic distaster.
Many women relish the role of wife and mother – which you libel as “subjugated” and “passive”. As many wives and mothers will tell you, they are anything but. And are they really better off parading about in imitation of males, coarsening their characters as the playthings of promiscuous boys and leaving it too late to have children; drinking themselves silly at weekends and dying alone or “cared for” by complete strangers? Do you really think your threadbare, selfish, strident, empty “liberalism” has anything more to offer than the quest for sensation followed by a miserable death? As for Islam – yes, it exaggerates badly; but traditional Christian civilisation did not deprive women of rights – hence monogamy; hence the expectation that men should be chaste and faithful, too. And the world it conjured into being was at least capable of reproducing itself. Your world, by contrast, is withering away within a single generation. Ach, you can keep it. Much good may it do you. Two sterile worlds now face each other where Islam meets the former Christendom: one, a place of female subjection to religious dogma; the other, a place of female subjection to feminist insanity.
Women have worked on farms for thousands of years and when factories, mines and mills, they worked in them. Pre 1800 , 80 % of Britons lived in the countryside and farms were self sufficient. Women made clothes, cooked, brewed, baked bread beer, grew herbs for food and medicines, made cheese, butter, curtains. Up to the early 18 th century many breweries were run by women as it was associated with brewing.
Only after the 1850s when industry and urbanisation produce a large middle class, perhaps 15 % of the population did women not work out side of the home. When it came to shops, pubs and small businesses women worked with the husband. The wives of farmers and minor gentry would in effect be running hotels, as they would be cooking for the unmarried farm labourers. Often the wife did the accounts. While the husband was away on the estate/farm on business the day to day running was done by wife ; the same for merchants.
In 1900 vast numbers of women worked as domestic staff who were very poorly paid, even in 1939.
The women writers such as Austen, Brontes, Virginia Wolf, etc come from the upper middle class who have inherited money and give a very distorted view of most womens lives; they never worked . Also in two world wars, vast numbers of women left domestic service and worked in factories, middle class women became nurses and even saw combat – WAAF in Battle of Britain , nurses and members of SOE. Nancy Wake GM was asked if she had any regrets ” Yes, I did not kill enough Nazis”.
Nancy Wake – Wikipedia
Violette Szabo GC fought off members of the Das Reich 2 nd SS in order to enable her resistance colleague to escape.
Violette Szabo – Wikipedia
Odette Hallows GC said her most important role was being a Mother
Odette Hallowes – Wikipedia
British women have in their lives been SOE Agents or been nurses in combat, intelligence officers, Mothers and Wives; they are not mutually exlusive.
What I never understand is why women who say they are feminists do not ploclaim the heroics of of women who served so valiantly in WW1 and WW2.
Many women relish the role of wife and mother – which you libel as “subjugated” and “passive”. As many wives and mothers will tell you, they are anything but. And are they really better off parading about in imitation of males, coarsening their characters as the playthings of promiscuous boys and leaving it too late to have children; drinking themselves silly at weekends and dying alone or “cared for” by complete strangers? Do you really think your threadbare, selfish, strident, empty “liberalism” has anything more to offer than the quest for sensation followed by a miserable death? As for Islam – yes, it exaggerates badly; but traditional Christian civilisation did not deprive women of rights – hence monogamy; hence the expectation that men should be chaste and faithful, too. And the world it conjured into being was at least capable of reproducing itself. Your world, by contrast, is withering away within a single generation. Ach, you can keep it. Much good may it do you. Two sterile worlds now face each other where Islam meets the former Christendom: one, a place of female subjection to religious dogma; the other, a place of female subjection to feminist insanity.
Women have worked on farms for thousands of years and when factories, mines and mills, they worked in them. Pre 1800 , 80 % of Britons lived in the countryside and farms were self sufficient. Women made clothes, cooked, brewed, baked bread beer, grew herbs for food and medicines, made cheese, butter, curtains. Up to the early 18 th century many breweries were run by women as it was associated with brewing.
Only after the 1850s when industry and urbanisation produce a large middle class, perhaps 15 % of the population did women not work out side of the home. When it came to shops, pubs and small businesses women worked with the husband. The wives of farmers and minor gentry would in effect be running hotels, as they would be cooking for the unmarried farm labourers. Often the wife did the accounts. While the husband was away on the estate/farm on business the day to day running was done by wife ; the same for merchants.
In 1900 vast numbers of women worked as domestic staff who were very poorly paid, even in 1939.
The women writers such as Austen, Brontes, Virginia Wolf, etc come from the upper middle class who have inherited money and give a very distorted view of most womens lives; they never worked . Also in two world wars, vast numbers of women left domestic service and worked in factories, middle class women became nurses and even saw combat – WAAF in Battle of Britain , nurses and members of SOE. Nancy Wake GM was asked if she had any regrets ” Yes, I did not kill enough Nazis”.
Nancy Wake – Wikipedia
Violette Szabo GC fought off members of the Das Reich 2 nd SS in order to enable her resistance colleague to escape.
Violette Szabo – Wikipedia
Odette Hallows GC said her most important role was being a Mother
Odette Hallowes – Wikipedia
British women have in their lives been SOE Agents or been nurses in combat, intelligence officers, Mothers and Wives; they are not mutually exlusive.
What I never understand is why women who say they are feminists do not ploclaim the heroics of of women who served so valiantly in WW1 and WW2.
Also the AfD was born from two libertarian professors in I think 2011, and was an antistifling regulation and bureaucracy party. Since they think rationally, not hysterically, they moved to an anti migrant position, and their votes ( and publicity) began to grow.
Judging by the comments on this forum over recent weeks, we are inevitably doomed.
The cancer of socialist entitlement has infected nearly every arm of the state, and the demos have obediently trotted behind.
It is NOT if but WHEN.
“…Unpleasant remarks of a certain Liberal peeress with regard to Israel…” Can you be more specific?
Ah, I see the answer you want. Woman back in the kitchen and the bedroom serving her husband, bringng up his kids and scraficing her own persona subjugated to this passive roll. It’s not going to work. The Taliban are working on it now, I’m sure you’ve noticed! It will fail. It will be an economic distaster.
Also the AfD was born from two libertarian professors in I think 2011, and was an antistifling regulation and bureaucracy party. Since they think rationally, not hysterically, they moved to an anti migrant position, and their votes ( and publicity) began to grow.
Demographics is the new bullshit. You can’t have a young population for ever as these youngsters sadly are bio-conditioned to age. It’s just another attempt and rationalisation to postpone addressing the issue of too many people.
The world would be a better place with fewer humans as we are not the only inhabitants of this biosphere and other creatures warrant their space as well but we are the species that is destroying it for all others including ourselves.
Please note that I am not advocating a cull. Nature has its own way of dealing with plagues. We just should be a little more thoughtful and slow down the catastrophe that is coming. Homo-sapiens should become a little more sapient. Really a lot more.
You are right, I believe, with regard to over population on this planet by humans. Nature does have it’s ways. Infertiility in men is rising fast across the planet, not just in the Westernise countries.
Reality is that overpopulation is happening mostly in Asia and Africa.
Most of this people, like Muslim countries and Africans are just devouring resources while contributing very little.
You are right, I believe, with regard to over population on this planet by humans. Nature does have it’s ways. Infertiility in men is rising fast across the planet, not just in the Westernise countries.
Reality is that overpopulation is happening mostly in Asia and Africa.
Most of this people, like Muslim countries and Africans are just devouring resources while contributing very little.
I agree with Simon. Excellent post. But I don’t think it’s so much a question of not seeing any politician with bright ideas. It’s more about political courage and leadership. British governments since 2016 and especially 2019 haven’t dared to take advantage of the nimbleness Brexit could confer to do things differently. The agility of the non-civil service based Vaccine Task Force pointed the way. But nobody in government nor the Labour opposition has the guts to say anything other than what they think will retain or win power.
The agility of Vaccine Task Force was waste of national resources on, as we know now, pointless pseudo vaccines.
The agility of Vaccine Task Force was waste of national resources on, as we know now, pointless pseudo vaccines.
Great post.
This guy was editor of FT Germany.
FT is globalisers Bible.
I am surprised that Freddie did not ask the obvious question:
How can you be friends with people like China who want to steal your technology and using slave labour usurp your place as the leading power in areas of technology your currently dominate?
It looks like Germany is implementing Morgentau plan all by itself.
The main danger for Europe is that when Germans feel unhappy for whatever reason they blame others for their misfortune.
And start marching.
It might not end well.
” … anti-semitism, which begs the question: how would Munchau then classify the UK Labour Party of the last several years under Corbyn, with figures like Ken Livingstone and Chris Williamson in positions of prominence – as in, was Labour far-right too?”
You’re somewhat naive if you buy the anti-Semitic Corbyn myth – it was an internal hit-job by top-brass Blairites in Labour:
“Despite Corbyn’s popularity, the party’s top unelected officials and parliamentarians fought him at every turn. Labour’s paid, professional staff deliberately made the daily tasks of party management difficult for Corbyn’s team. A 2020 leaked report containing Whatsapp messages and emails of party officials revealed not only that they had sought to undermine Corbyn’s 2017 general election bid, but also that they routinely referred to Corbyn, his team, and his few political allies in defamatory and degrading terms. “To them,” write journalists Gabriel Pogrund and Patrick Maguire in their book Left Out: The Inside Story of Labour Under Corbyn, “Corbyn and Corbynism was never legitimate.”
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-jews-expelled-from-labour-over-antisemitism
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/unkillable-myths-corbyns-labour-party-and-anti-semitism
All that doesn’t in fact answer what you think Livingstone, Williamson et al, and the large numbers of members (whose actions are still visible for any who want to care to look for them, from driving out Jewish MPs to innumerable twitter threads about Israel and Jewish influence, to putting up a wave of pro Palastine flags at Labour conferences instead of the Red Flag, let alone the Union Jack) were up to? Do you believe they (and Corbyn) were the subject of witch hunts or the Jewish MPs?
**Edit: I infact had a bit more of a look at both those magazines, and while everyone knows where the MorningStar is coming from, JewishCurrents is unfamiliar to me. I have to say, the tone throughout is a throwback to narratives I used to hear in my student days – a tedious mix of victimhood and apologism. And that figures: the article you quoted is written by an American PhD student. Personally speaking, I stopped taking such people seriously decades ago.
All that doesn’t in fact answer what you think Livingstone, Williamson et al, and the large numbers of members (whose actions are still visible for any who want to care to look for them, from driving out Jewish MPs to innumerable twitter threads about Israel and Jewish influence, to putting up a wave of pro Palastine flags at Labour conferences instead of the Red Flag, let alone the Union Jack) were up to? Do you believe they (and Corbyn) were the subject of witch hunts or the Jewish MPs?
**Edit: I infact had a bit more of a look at both those magazines, and while everyone knows where the MorningStar is coming from, JewishCurrents is unfamiliar to me. I have to say, the tone throughout is a throwback to narratives I used to hear in my student days – a tedious mix of victimhood and apologism. And that figures: the article you quoted is written by an American PhD student. Personally speaking, I stopped taking such people seriously decades ago.
An excellent comment full of good questions. For me Munchau’s outstanding bloomer was to label the AfD “far right” and “not conservative” when in fact it has taken over many of the policies and voters whom Merkel shed from the CDU.
You might say that the party is “far right” as in “far to the right of the current consensus”, but isn’t everybody – everybody outside the administrative-metropolitan caste, that is? And isn’t the label therefore nothing but a linguistic dodge, designed to smear without trace, as it were?
He then plays with the toxic issue of anti-Semitism, acknowledging that it forms no part of the AfD’s official platform but insinuating its presence on the fringes of the party. As others have pointed out, the fringes of many parties – of right, left and centre (anyone recall the unpleasant remarks of a certain Liberal peeress with regard to Israel?) – are tainted by the views of cranks.
Worst of all, he ascribes Europe’s political malaise to economic woes, which are – as you have so unanswerably pointed out – the result of “consensus” decisions. And the diagnosis is wide of the mark in principle. Yes, riches can dull the ache of sorrow but if that sorrow proceeds from deeper, more intractable problems than mere poverty, then wealth is nothing but a sort of analgesic in the face of a cancer.
And the cancer we face is nothing short of civilisational suicide, in which the natural fabric of human society, which proceeds from family through clan towards tribe and nation, complete with natural and customary gender roles and stringent assimilationist demands, has been replaced by an abstract, moralistic, left-liberal-to-Marxist gibbet. Caught in this instrument of torture, human nature is twisted towards a degree of “virtue” so extreme, so self-destructive that it has settled a pall of depression across the western world. We will either escape this gibbet or it will kill us.
Demographics is the new bullshit. You can’t have a young population for ever as these youngsters sadly are bio-conditioned to age. It’s just another attempt and rationalisation to postpone addressing the issue of too many people.
The world would be a better place with fewer humans as we are not the only inhabitants of this biosphere and other creatures warrant their space as well but we are the species that is destroying it for all others including ourselves.
Please note that I am not advocating a cull. Nature has its own way of dealing with plagues. We just should be a little more thoughtful and slow down the catastrophe that is coming. Homo-sapiens should become a little more sapient. Really a lot more.
I agree with Simon. Excellent post. But I don’t think it’s so much a question of not seeing any politician with bright ideas. It’s more about political courage and leadership. British governments since 2016 and especially 2019 haven’t dared to take advantage of the nimbleness Brexit could confer to do things differently. The agility of the non-civil service based Vaccine Task Force pointed the way. But nobody in government nor the Labour opposition has the guts to say anything other than what they think will retain or win power.
Great post.
This guy was editor of FT Germany.
FT is globalisers Bible.
I am surprised that Freddie did not ask the obvious question:
How can you be friends with people like China who want to steal your technology and using slave labour usurp your place as the leading power in areas of technology your currently dominate?
It looks like Germany is implementing Morgentau plan all by itself.
The main danger for Europe is that when Germans feel unhappy for whatever reason they blame others for their misfortune.
And start marching.
It might not end well.
” … anti-semitism, which begs the question: how would Munchau then classify the UK Labour Party of the last several years under Corbyn, with figures like Ken Livingstone and Chris Williamson in positions of prominence – as in, was Labour far-right too?”
You’re somewhat naive if you buy the anti-Semitic Corbyn myth – it was an internal hit-job by top-brass Blairites in Labour:
“Despite Corbyn’s popularity, the party’s top unelected officials and parliamentarians fought him at every turn. Labour’s paid, professional staff deliberately made the daily tasks of party management difficult for Corbyn’s team. A 2020 leaked report containing Whatsapp messages and emails of party officials revealed not only that they had sought to undermine Corbyn’s 2017 general election bid, but also that they routinely referred to Corbyn, his team, and his few political allies in defamatory and degrading terms. “To them,” write journalists Gabriel Pogrund and Patrick Maguire in their book Left Out: The Inside Story of Labour Under Corbyn, “Corbyn and Corbynism was never legitimate.”
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-jews-expelled-from-labour-over-antisemitism
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/unkillable-myths-corbyns-labour-party-and-anti-semitism
An interesting interview, with many things I can agree about, but also many things to challenge. I get the sense that Munchau is a long term technocratic consensus insider, who has suddenly been slapped awake by patterns which have been brewing for a long time suddenly snapping into focus over the last couple of years, and as such he can see a bunch of stark realities ahead for Germany, but is nevertheless unwilling to totally let go of all of that past consensus. I know very little about the AFD, but he called them far-right, but any non-progressive hearing that in the UK will instantly know that UKIP and TBP and even the Tories are routinely labelled that, and so will dismiss that assessment even if it is actually true of the AFD. He also equated their political ecosystem with amongst other things, anti-semitism, which begs the question: how would Munchau then classify the UK Labour Party of the last several years under Corbyn, with figures like Ken Livingstone and Chris Williamson in positions of prominence – as in, was Labour far-right too? A big hole in the analysis for me was no mention of the absolutely dire state of German age demographics. I also didn’t get a clear sense of why Germany never engaged full scale in the tech industry over the last three decades, notwithstanding a very highly educated populace, not on the electronics side (chip makers etc) nor software. I also never got a very clear sense why Germany put their head on the chopping block by creating dependence on a Russia led by Putin, for godssake. I also didn’t get a clear picture of why they collectively appear to want to *still* maintain dependence on China, despite the lesson of getting kicked in the nads by Putin. I also never got a clear picture why this psychology has grown across Germany, where they will buy into a seeming merchantilist pragmatism about creating deep business ties with people who are very clearly not your friends, and yet simultaneously buy into Trump derangement syndrome, to the point where you forget to cultivate relationships with people who in truth have had your back all these decades, underwriting your military security.
Strange that this article doesn’t really reference the influence of Merkel’s immigration policy on the level of support for AFD. Maybe technocrats just can’t see beyond the money – so they fail to understand the importance of democracy and historical culture in the minds of their demos.
Strange that this article doesn’t really reference the influence of Merkel’s immigration policy on the level of support for AFD. Maybe technocrats just can’t see beyond the money – so they fail to understand the importance of democracy and historical culture in the minds of their demos.
Something is nagging me about these ‘west in decline’ interviews. Many of the analysts just assume we will snap out of it and all will be well again. That may be true or even likely, but it’s not inevitable. Problems in the west are very fixable, but it requires a level of competence that I don’t think the ruling elite possess at the moment.
I think you are right Jim about the level of competence in Western leaders. I would add a lack of interest in fixing the problems created by their own policies is also a major issue. They seem unable to think beyond the narrow neo-liberal economic consensus that no longer works for the ordinary citizen.
Hear hear
Hear hear
The quality of leadership is a global issue. Listened to an interesting thesis by Brian Klaas (UCL) regarding the increasing prevalence of psychopaths in power for a variety of reasons, including the fact that good people are not prepared to pay the price of intrusion and attack in modern public life. Jordan Petersen has also raised the issue of psychopaths’ ability to destabilise society on social media. Through the amplification of digital 3% of the society can take it down. Klaas also leans into the “you get the leader you deserve” argument …. humans abhor uncertainty. The “strong man” is an evolutionary bias we bring from a time when physicality was the determinant of a tribe’s survival.
Positively? Just finished Howe’s The Fourth Turning is Here. Leaders are forged from crisis, not identified in moments of calm before the storm. Let’s hope so.
That said, my bigger concern is not the issue of leadership, but the paucity of ideas for structuring our affairs. Far too much academic horsepower in the West is being expended on DIE, gaming research grants, dealing with weak student-pleasing administrators, and managing grade-hungry students challenging assessments, teaching and anything that gets in the way of the entitleent their £36k annual fees brings. Whilst not all ideas come from universities, it is a critical feeder into the wider society.
Blair’s determination to send everyone to university took the plumbing out life and left us drained.
Blair’s determination to send everyone to university took the plumbing out life and left us drained.
Come on.
It is not an issue of competence.
It is conscious decisions of higher orders to flood the West with immigrants from incompatible cultures to destroy societies, so they can be controlled.
Serfdom is coming.
I think you are right Jim about the level of competence in Western leaders. I would add a lack of interest in fixing the problems created by their own policies is also a major issue. They seem unable to think beyond the narrow neo-liberal economic consensus that no longer works for the ordinary citizen.
The quality of leadership is a global issue. Listened to an interesting thesis by Brian Klaas (UCL) regarding the increasing prevalence of psychopaths in power for a variety of reasons, including the fact that good people are not prepared to pay the price of intrusion and attack in modern public life. Jordan Petersen has also raised the issue of psychopaths’ ability to destabilise society on social media. Through the amplification of digital 3% of the society can take it down. Klaas also leans into the “you get the leader you deserve” argument …. humans abhor uncertainty. The “strong man” is an evolutionary bias we bring from a time when physicality was the determinant of a tribe’s survival.
Positively? Just finished Howe’s The Fourth Turning is Here. Leaders are forged from crisis, not identified in moments of calm before the storm. Let’s hope so.
That said, my bigger concern is not the issue of leadership, but the paucity of ideas for structuring our affairs. Far too much academic horsepower in the West is being expended on DIE, gaming research grants, dealing with weak student-pleasing administrators, and managing grade-hungry students challenging assessments, teaching and anything that gets in the way of the entitleent their £36k annual fees brings. Whilst not all ideas come from universities, it is a critical feeder into the wider society.
Come on.
It is not an issue of competence.
It is conscious decisions of higher orders to flood the West with immigrants from incompatible cultures to destroy societies, so they can be controlled.
Serfdom is coming.
Something is nagging me about these ‘west in decline’ interviews. Many of the analysts just assume we will snap out of it and all will be well again. That may be true or even likely, but it’s not inevitable. Problems in the west are very fixable, but it requires a level of competence that I don’t think the ruling elite possess at the moment.
I stopped reading when he kept describing Meloni as far-Right. To these people, anyone who shares the views of a majority of the population, rather than their own little circle, is far-Right.
I stopped reading when he kept describing Meloni as far-Right. To these people, anyone who shares the views of a majority of the population, rather than their own little circle, is far-Right.
The heat pump thing should not be called a “mis-handling”. It’s impossible to consider a policy of impoverishing a huge number of citizens for a stupid and pointless reason – to force them to install “heat pumps” – and not think “This is a stupid idea, and my governing party will have nothing to do with it.” Impossible, that is, unless you’re a malign actor who hates people. But that hardly counts as “mis-handling”.
It is particuarly troubling for East Germany where the AfD is flourishing. .The cost of a heat pump is up to 20% of the average house price. East Germany has also not been infested with Green cultism in the same ways as West. The combination of proposed impoverishment and scepticism challenging.
The heat pump lunacy also had a profound electoral effect recently in Bremen.
The heat pump lunacy also had a profound electoral effect recently in Bremen.
It is particuarly troubling for East Germany where the AfD is flourishing. .The cost of a heat pump is up to 20% of the average house price. East Germany has also not been infested with Green cultism in the same ways as West. The combination of proposed impoverishment and scepticism challenging.
The heat pump thing should not be called a “mis-handling”. It’s impossible to consider a policy of impoverishing a huge number of citizens for a stupid and pointless reason – to force them to install “heat pumps” – and not think “This is a stupid idea, and my governing party will have nothing to do with it.” Impossible, that is, unless you’re a malign actor who hates people. But that hardly counts as “mis-handling”.
An arrogant technocrat, full of shit and self entitlement. He’s a parasite whose ideas have been in power for the last 30 years, and led to a current political failure, but who think they should keep rerunning the show.
Europe has a post-democratic governance problem, a problem where majority opinion on some topics (such as immigration) does not t ranslate in policy. Yet this does not seem an issue for his highness Munchau
Rough times ahead
He’s a lifelong financial journalist. Where on earth did you get the idea he’s an arrogant technocrat? Do your homework before you comment.
There’s the rub – he’s a financial journalist. What he said about German companies not being able to adjust is nonsense. The Mittelstand is incredibly inventive and nimble, but they are self-financed and never show up in the financial press, so he knows nothing about them.
That is true. Financial journalists mostly write about Big Business these days and movements in the finance industry.
That is true. Financial journalists mostly write about Big Business these days and movements in the finance industry.
There’s the rub – he’s a financial journalist. What he said about German companies not being able to adjust is nonsense. The Mittelstand is incredibly inventive and nimble, but they are self-financed and never show up in the financial press, so he knows nothing about them.
What a pathetic comment! He is a journalist and I was impressed by his candour.
He’s a lifelong financial journalist. Where on earth did you get the idea he’s an arrogant technocrat? Do your homework before you comment.
What a pathetic comment! He is a journalist and I was impressed by his candour.
An arrogant technocrat, full of shit and self entitlement. He’s a parasite whose ideas have been in power for the last 30 years, and led to a current political failure, but who think they should keep rerunning the show.
Europe has a post-democratic governance problem, a problem where majority opinion on some topics (such as immigration) does not t ranslate in policy. Yet this does not seem an issue for his highness Munchau
Rough times ahead
“[The AfD is] on the far-Right: they have goals that I would consider incompatible with constitutional law. For example, …”
Excellent. We love examples in place of unsubstantiated hoo-hah:
“… one of the goals they recently pronounced was not only Germany’s exit from the EU (which is legal), but the disbandment of the EU, which is obviously not something that a country can do.”
That’s all you got? (!)
If you consider the AfD to be far-Right then in the UK Labour is far-Left.
I suspect the centre-right and centre-left want their cosy political cartel to continue so every party outside that narrow view must be labelled as extreme, whether it is true or not.
If you consider the AfD to be far-Right then in the UK Labour is far-Left.
I suspect the centre-right and centre-left want their cosy political cartel to continue so every party outside that narrow view must be labelled as extreme, whether it is true or not.
“[The AfD is] on the far-Right: they have goals that I would consider incompatible with constitutional law. For example, …”
Excellent. We love examples in place of unsubstantiated hoo-hah:
“… one of the goals they recently pronounced was not only Germany’s exit from the EU (which is legal), but the disbandment of the EU, which is obviously not something that a country can do.”
That’s all you got? (!)
The Malaise of Germany‘s economic downturn started all with the unprincipled policies of Merkel, always trying to run behind events, avoiding any conflict by closely following Germany’s left leaning MSM. As Southern European countries were facing major economic problems, having to stay within the strict rules of the Euro (which was created in the image of the Deutsche Mark), Merkel tried to overcome the problems with huge rescue packages, some bordering on being unconstitutional, instead of recognising the root of the Euro problem. Therefore the founders of the AfD came up with new ideas of loosening the rules and creating a Southern and a Northern Euro as an “Alternative” to her angry speech in the Bundestag:”There is no Alternative to the EU or the Euro!”
For me it is amazing how Münchau criticises the AfD as almost unconstitutional, because it supposedly wants to “dissolve” the whole of the EU. Never knew, that it was against the German Constitution to convert the current EU of unelected bureaucrats into a Union Of Nation States, very much a concept already envisioned by DeGaulle’s “Europe des Patries”. Of course nobody knows if this idea will be politically possible or even wanted by major European countries or even by most Germans.
After Fukushima physicists Merkel, who should now better, again tried to accommodate the fears of many Germans, mostly hyped again by MSM, that the perfectly functioning nuclear plants could malfunction (earthquakes in Germany ??) and decided, that they should all be shut down by 2023. No foresight or anticipation, that anything could go wrong in the relationship with Russia ( and her fickle leader Putin) , which would then become the main supplier of Germany’s all important energy.
Her open door migrant policy finally increased voters’ frustration by turning in masses to the AfD as all major parties showed no resistance or programs how to stem this flood of mostly young men from third world countries. By that time nearly all original Founders of the AfD left the party as the right wing nationalistic wing became more influential.
But the main point why Germany’s industry is in trouble, like many other highly industrialised Western countries, is “Green” government interference and the lack of real Free Market Capitalism, replaced by corporatism with huge rules and regulations according to the new “Green Religion”. Looking up Wolfgang Münchau on Wikipedia, he seems to have written a book called “The End of Social Market Capitalism” and supposedly criticised the founder of Germany’s successful “Wirtschaftswunder”, Ludwig Erhard. So I’ll take his advice with a grain of salt. Many highly successful German Mittelstands Companies are currently planning to move away, turning to countries with less regulation and better and cheaper energy supply.
Just one more point, why does he think that the U.K. will be better off in the long term? I assume, if the right government comes along and makes a bonfire of regulations and turns its back on the Green Religion, it will be the perfect place to open new high tech companies without any interference by the highly bureaucratic EU.
The Malaise of Germany‘s economic downturn started all with the unprincipled policies of Merkel, always trying to run behind events, avoiding any conflict by closely following Germany’s left leaning MSM. As Southern European countries were facing major economic problems, having to stay within the strict rules of the Euro (which was created in the image of the Deutsche Mark), Merkel tried to overcome the problems with huge rescue packages, some bordering on being unconstitutional, instead of recognising the root of the Euro problem. Therefore the founders of the AfD came up with new ideas of loosening the rules and creating a Southern and a Northern Euro as an “Alternative” to her angry speech in the Bundestag:”There is no Alternative to the EU or the Euro!”
For me it is amazing how Münchau criticises the AfD as almost unconstitutional, because it supposedly wants to “dissolve” the whole of the EU. Never knew, that it was against the German Constitution to convert the current EU of unelected bureaucrats into a Union Of Nation States, very much a concept already envisioned by DeGaulle’s “Europe des Patries”. Of course nobody knows if this idea will be politically possible or even wanted by major European countries or even by most Germans.
After Fukushima physicists Merkel, who should now better, again tried to accommodate the fears of many Germans, mostly hyped again by MSM, that the perfectly functioning nuclear plants could malfunction (earthquakes in Germany ??) and decided, that they should all be shut down by 2023. No foresight or anticipation, that anything could go wrong in the relationship with Russia ( and her fickle leader Putin) , which would then become the main supplier of Germany’s all important energy.
Her open door migrant policy finally increased voters’ frustration by turning in masses to the AfD as all major parties showed no resistance or programs how to stem this flood of mostly young men from third world countries. By that time nearly all original Founders of the AfD left the party as the right wing nationalistic wing became more influential.
But the main point why Germany’s industry is in trouble, like many other highly industrialised Western countries, is “Green” government interference and the lack of real Free Market Capitalism, replaced by corporatism with huge rules and regulations according to the new “Green Religion”. Looking up Wolfgang Münchau on Wikipedia, he seems to have written a book called “The End of Social Market Capitalism” and supposedly criticised the founder of Germany’s successful “Wirtschaftswunder”, Ludwig Erhard. So I’ll take his advice with a grain of salt. Many highly successful German Mittelstands Companies are currently planning to move away, turning to countries with less regulation and better and cheaper energy supply.
Just one more point, why does he think that the U.K. will be better off in the long term? I assume, if the right government comes along and makes a bonfire of regulations and turns its back on the Green Religion, it will be the perfect place to open new high tech companies without any interference by the highly bureaucratic EU.
Let’s be very clear about some facts: The three main shocks to German business – COVID restrictions, rejection of cheap and reliable Russian natural gas, and rejection of nuclear energy – were all irrational, ideology-driven choices, not externally-imposed constraints (unless you count the US blowing up Nord Stream as an externally-imposed constraint – but it’s scarcely an Act of God).
Unlike the UK, Germany still has an excellent education system capable of turning out good mechanical technicians. If you serious believe that AI, cloud technology, and digitalisation is going keep planes flying, trains running, and power stations turning, then you need to shut down your smart phone and get out more.
I agree but increasingly those planes, trains and power plants are being built by the Chinese and will be serviced by them as well. The Asian countries continue to move up the value chain and compete with the technical expertise of the Germans. It will take them a bit longer with AI but not much longer
The dark secret about a consumer economy is that you need to put money in consumers’ pockets so they can spend. This is something bleeding heart liberals like Henry Ford understood, but most “free-market” brainiacs and WEFers who are “advising” our politicians evidently don’t.
Another dynamic that completely escapes most current politicians in the US as well as the EU and its members is that if you want to subsidise your consumers so that oligarchs can continue exploiting workers, then you need to generate a tax income that funds the subsidies. And that tax income won’t come from the oligarchs, they invest in politicians to make sure that doesn’t happen.
The dark secret about a consumer economy is that you need to put money in consumers’ pockets so they can spend. This is something bleeding heart liberals like Henry Ford understood, but most “free-market” brainiacs and WEFers who are “advising” our politicians evidently don’t.
Another dynamic that completely escapes most current politicians in the US as well as the EU and its members is that if you want to subsidise your consumers so that oligarchs can continue exploiting workers, then you need to generate a tax income that funds the subsidies. And that tax income won’t come from the oligarchs, they invest in politicians to make sure that doesn’t happen.
The interesting economic comparison is not with the UK of today but of the 1870s-90s. Committed to free trade it ceased to be the “workshop of the world” and lost ground steadily to inter alia Germany (the equivalent of China today). The British were complacent partly because at least they continued to provide the capital stock for the new factories overseas … until they weren’t. Now contemplate the investments in China by the German car industry as suggested by Munchau.
I agree but increasingly those planes, trains and power plants are being built by the Chinese and will be serviced by them as well. The Asian countries continue to move up the value chain and compete with the technical expertise of the Germans. It will take them a bit longer with AI but not much longer
The interesting economic comparison is not with the UK of today but of the 1870s-90s. Committed to free trade it ceased to be the “workshop of the world” and lost ground steadily to inter alia Germany (the equivalent of China today). The British were complacent partly because at least they continued to provide the capital stock for the new factories overseas … until they weren’t. Now contemplate the investments in China by the German car industry as suggested by Munchau.
Let’s be very clear about some facts: The three main shocks to German business – COVID restrictions, rejection of cheap and reliable Russian natural gas, and rejection of nuclear energy – were all irrational, ideology-driven choices, not externally-imposed constraints (unless you count the US blowing up Nord Stream as an externally-imposed constraint – but it’s scarcely an Act of God).
Unlike the UK, Germany still has an excellent education system capable of turning out good mechanical technicians. If you serious believe that AI, cloud technology, and digitalisation is going keep planes flying, trains running, and power stations turning, then you need to shut down your smart phone and get out more.
I was surprised to hear Freddie use the term ‘reset’ in the interview wrt Putin and Russia. I recall Hillary Clinton presenting Sergey Lavrov with an actual reset button in 2009 (no joke). She was regularly talking about a reset with Putin. Later, in 2014, after the little green men took over Crimea and other areas of Ukraine (and also managed to blow a Malaysian airliner out of the sky) Clinton and Obama didn’t have much to say about the reset. Earlier (2001), George W Bush said he ‘looked into Putin’s eyes’ and ‘saw his soul’. Later, in 2018, he lamely said it looked like Putin had ‘changed’ (sounds like a marriage with an abusive spouse who maybe was always abusive and never actually changed except the occasional shots turned into actual beatings). Aleppo, Freddie? There’s a reason Sorovikin is called ‘General Armageddon’ and I’m pretty sure he had Putin’s approval. Lastly, we know of Russian mercenary armies (oops!, I mean Private Military Contractors no doubt performing Special Military Operations) working in Africa now to secure resources. Oh! Let’s not forget the murders committed on UK soil of Putin’s political enemies.
Whatever one thinks of the war in Ukraine, looking to do a ‘reset’ with Mr. Putin seems like a fool’s errand. History has shown that.
I was surprised to hear Freddie use the term ‘reset’ in the interview wrt Putin and Russia. I recall Hillary Clinton presenting Sergey Lavrov with an actual reset button in 2009 (no joke). She was regularly talking about a reset with Putin. Later, in 2014, after the little green men took over Crimea and other areas of Ukraine (and also managed to blow a Malaysian airliner out of the sky) Clinton and Obama didn’t have much to say about the reset. Earlier (2001), George W Bush said he ‘looked into Putin’s eyes’ and ‘saw his soul’. Later, in 2018, he lamely said it looked like Putin had ‘changed’ (sounds like a marriage with an abusive spouse who maybe was always abusive and never actually changed except the occasional shots turned into actual beatings). Aleppo, Freddie? There’s a reason Sorovikin is called ‘General Armageddon’ and I’m pretty sure he had Putin’s approval. Lastly, we know of Russian mercenary armies (oops!, I mean Private Military Contractors no doubt performing Special Military Operations) working in Africa now to secure resources. Oh! Let’s not forget the murders committed on UK soil of Putin’s political enemies.
Whatever one thinks of the war in Ukraine, looking to do a ‘reset’ with Mr. Putin seems like a fool’s errand. History has shown that.
So this goal is illegal but also legal. Uh, got it. And…
… which is also legal. So they have goals he’d consider incompatible with the constitution but can’t name any, and the EU was built by countries that wanted to create and expand it, but can’t be unbuilt the same way because ????
No it isn’t difficult. The system allows any kind of coalition. The fact that Germany’s self-proclaimed “centrist” parties refuse to work with the AfD, which has a bog-standard conservative manifesto, says a lot about those parties and nothing about PR as a system.
The rest of the article is slightly better, but not by much.
It’s always such a slog with such establishment types. Illogical statements flow like water. They seem to “think” by memetically copying claims from people around them giving results very reminiscent of AI when you push it hard. The sentences are grammatically correct but the ideas within them don’t make sense or connect to each other in logical ways. False claims and non-sequiturs are the order of the day.
Freddie usually challenges his interviewees intellectually, but here Münchau gets off quite easily I thought.
Oh well he did predict the UK as being in a better position in 10yrs time. Hope springs……
Oh well he did predict the UK as being in a better position in 10yrs time. Hope springs……
So this goal is illegal but also legal. Uh, got it. And…
… which is also legal. So they have goals he’d consider incompatible with the constitution but can’t name any, and the EU was built by countries that wanted to create and expand it, but can’t be unbuilt the same way because ????
No it isn’t difficult. The system allows any kind of coalition. The fact that Germany’s self-proclaimed “centrist” parties refuse to work with the AfD, which has a bog-standard conservative manifesto, says a lot about those parties and nothing about PR as a system.
The rest of the article is slightly better, but not by much.
It’s always such a slog with such establishment types. Illogical statements flow like water. They seem to “think” by memetically copying claims from people around them giving results very reminiscent of AI when you push it hard. The sentences are grammatically correct but the ideas within them don’t make sense or connect to each other in logical ways. False claims and non-sequiturs are the order of the day.
Freddie usually challenges his interviewees intellectually, but here Münchau gets off quite easily I thought.
It wasn’t that long ago that opposition to the EU was a left wing policy.
Yes, I recall in1971 the common maket debate.
Yes, I recall in1971 the common maket debate.
It wasn’t that long ago that opposition to the EU was a left wing policy.
“The much bigger danger for the EU is that it becomes toothless and ineffective”.
This is not an inchoate risk that could be realised in the future. The EU IS toothless and ineffective in all but minor situations. It is also a German sickness to overestimate the power and the ability of the EU.
Otherwise a good Interview, I’m a big fan of Münchau.
For me Münchau is part of the left leaning German/European MSM. He was co-editor of the German Financial Times… The EU leadership is a menace and has too much power on every day life, especially business in the EU. UvL is a close friend of Merkel’s and screwed up every post she had. Yesterday a “biting” new media law, DSA, kicked in, checking social media for “harmful” content. This isn’t toothless and the rules and regulations the commission seems to come up daily aren’t toothless either
For me Münchau is part of the left leaning German/European MSM. He was co-editor of the German Financial Times… The EU leadership is a menace and has too much power on every day life, especially business in the EU. UvL is a close friend of Merkel’s and screwed up every post she had. Yesterday a “biting” new media law, DSA, kicked in, checking social media for “harmful” content. This isn’t toothless and the rules and regulations the commission seems to come up daily aren’t toothless either
“The much bigger danger for the EU is that it becomes toothless and ineffective”.
This is not an inchoate risk that could be realised in the future. The EU IS toothless and ineffective in all but minor situations. It is also a German sickness to overestimate the power and the ability of the EU.
Otherwise a good Interview, I’m a big fan of Münchau.
“Voters are not entirely stupid”
Well that explain a lot of how Mr Munchau sees the world
“Voters are not entirely stupid”
Well that explain a lot of how Mr Munchau sees the world
“No one would ever go into a coalition with the AfD.” That simply means that in 5 years, after complete collapse of the Teutonic Green Walhalla, AfD will not need any coalition to form the government. The green Germany is one gigantic lie anyway, it has been always running on Russian gas, now on Polish and German coal. And, as we found out, they see the “solution” in increasing the dependence on China and Russia. And leave NATO.I hate to bring to their attention that the US bases in Germany have always served a double purpose: to defend Europe against Russia and to make sure that there will be no need for the Operation Overlord II.
Germans would love the business as usual with Putin. In addition to economic gains they want to have leverage over Central and Eastern Europe again. Nordstream II was build to bypass those countries and made them entirely energy dependent on Germany and Russia.
In terms of digital technology Germany and, EU in general, are absolute world “leaders” in regulating it. That’s a proven recipe for progress.
“No one would ever go into a coalition with the AfD.” That simply means that in 5 years, after complete collapse of the Teutonic Green Walhalla, AfD will not need any coalition to form the government. The green Germany is one gigantic lie anyway, it has been always running on Russian gas, now on Polish and German coal. And, as we found out, they see the “solution” in increasing the dependence on China and Russia. And leave NATO.I hate to bring to their attention that the US bases in Germany have always served a double purpose: to defend Europe against Russia and to make sure that there will be no need for the Operation Overlord II.
Germans would love the business as usual with Putin. In addition to economic gains they want to have leverage over Central and Eastern Europe again. Nordstream II was build to bypass those countries and made them entirely energy dependent on Germany and Russia.
In terms of digital technology Germany and, EU in general, are absolute world “leaders” in regulating it. That’s a proven recipe for progress.
Germany was the big beneficiary of the Euro.If its economy continues to decline then money will flow out and into countries like Greece who under a re-elected Greek Conservative govt are attracting increasing foreign investment.It would be ironical if in a few years time Germany wants to leave the Euro whilst Greece ,Ireland,Italy and Portugal want to stay in
Germany was the big beneficiary of the Euro.If its economy continues to decline then money will flow out and into countries like Greece who under a re-elected Greek Conservative govt are attracting increasing foreign investment.It would be ironical if in a few years time Germany wants to leave the Euro whilst Greece ,Ireland,Italy and Portugal want to stay in
Anyone who visited Germany great cities and cultural centers must be full of admiration. IF you visit Munich now, one of the most livable culturally rich cities in the world you wonder why would anyone not want to be German.
But they squandered all of this in their fanatical, never ending drive to dominate. EU for Germany is just a tool. Munchau is just another enthusiast of German hegemony and he is afraid that it may be challenged. So let’s abandon relationship with the US, leave NATO, and try to restore German hegemony in Europe working with Putin and Xi.
Merkel pushed UK out of Europe and her unilateral move to open the borders of Europe to refugees started slow demise of EU. But they cannot help themselves. They have to rule if not by military power than by economic dominance. But at the same time, being fanatics they are, they determined to push the Green Teutonic Valhalla suicide pact on their neighbors.
The solution is always the same: looking for “allies” that would help them impose their rule on Europe. US will not do so of course they desperately want get back to working with Russia on the “softer” Ribbentrop-Molotov pact to squeeze Eastern Europe. Russia overtaking Ukraine and terrorizing Poland was the perfect outcome for Germans. It did not work but they are not abandoning hope.
They think that Russians will forget the millions murdered by Nazis, that Poland will forget six years of terror and slaughter of millions of Poles and Jews, that Europe would tolerate any unilateral imposition from Germany. They are mad.
When in Poland during martial law, I asked a room full of people if they hated the Russians. Someone whose father was shot at Katyn answered, “I don’t like them,” he said. “They’ve stolen our land, burnt our universities and churches and raped our women. And we’ve done the same.” His voice trailed. But the Germans…”
”What’s the difference?”
”They tried to destroy us and our language for no other reason than we existed”
The room nodded very firmly in agreement. Time has passed and there are more Germans now than then who cannot be held responsible in any way whatsoever for Germany’s horrendous past. There are undoubtedly many honourable Germans.
But reunited Germany is barely 30 years old. It was born from two appalling regimes. The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones. WWII for Poland only ended in 1989. We in the west have no idea what it was like to live with the everyday constant suspicion, lack of trust, deceit, lies, propaganda, corruption, betrayals, cruelty and grey depressive atmosphere amongst our neighbours, family and colleagues.
Andrezj, I don’t know whether you’re right as it’s a while since I’ve been to Germany and Poland. But I certainly know that anyone who down votes you must explain why. Because I know where you’re coming from.
When in Poland during martial law, I asked a room full of people if they hated the Russians. Someone whose father was shot at Katyn answered, “I don’t like them,” he said. “They’ve stolen our land, burnt our universities and churches and raped our women. And we’ve done the same.” His voice trailed. But the Germans…”
”What’s the difference?”
”They tried to destroy us and our language for no other reason than we existed”
The room nodded very firmly in agreement. Time has passed and there are more Germans now than then who cannot be held responsible in any way whatsoever for Germany’s horrendous past. There are undoubtedly many honourable Germans.
But reunited Germany is barely 30 years old. It was born from two appalling regimes. The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones. WWII for Poland only ended in 1989. We in the west have no idea what it was like to live with the everyday constant suspicion, lack of trust, deceit, lies, propaganda, corruption, betrayals, cruelty and grey depressive atmosphere amongst our neighbours, family and colleagues.
Andrezj, I don’t know whether you’re right as it’s a while since I’ve been to Germany and Poland. But I certainly know that anyone who down votes you must explain why. Because I know where you’re coming from.
Anyone who visited Germany great cities and cultural centers must be full of admiration. IF you visit Munich now, one of the most livable culturally rich cities in the world you wonder why would anyone not want to be German.
But they squandered all of this in their fanatical, never ending drive to dominate. EU for Germany is just a tool. Munchau is just another enthusiast of German hegemony and he is afraid that it may be challenged. So let’s abandon relationship with the US, leave NATO, and try to restore German hegemony in Europe working with Putin and Xi.
Merkel pushed UK out of Europe and her unilateral move to open the borders of Europe to refugees started slow demise of EU. But they cannot help themselves. They have to rule if not by military power than by economic dominance. But at the same time, being fanatics they are, they determined to push the Green Teutonic Valhalla suicide pact on their neighbors.
The solution is always the same: looking for “allies” that would help them impose their rule on Europe. US will not do so of course they desperately want get back to working with Russia on the “softer” Ribbentrop-Molotov pact to squeeze Eastern Europe. Russia overtaking Ukraine and terrorizing Poland was the perfect outcome for Germans. It did not work but they are not abandoning hope.
They think that Russians will forget the millions murdered by Nazis, that Poland will forget six years of terror and slaughter of millions of Poles and Jews, that Europe would tolerate any unilateral imposition from Germany. They are mad.
I agree with pretty much everything here – very insightful it all is. I very much hope that Germany doesn’t fall back into a loss of interest in geostrategic concerns – it would guarantee Europe’s slide into global insignificance.
On the matter of Brexit he’s right too. The lack of vision for a model of independent self-government has allowed Brexit to become a BRINO outcome – so far, that is. So he’s right that we don’t want to make a radical economic pivot because the “we” he’s talking about is a democratic consensus with a mandate to carry it out, not just the voices of the Brexit victors from before the 2019 general election, and that consensus doesn’t presently exist. Maybe we’ll reach one, maybe not.
Only one person who loves Mrs Merkel more than me – Mistah Putin.
He sold Germany and Europe a lot of gas, and now the vacuum left in his absence has led the populist Right to assert themselves against the Atlanticists.
As usual, Washington and London stand squarely behind such maneouvres.
Only one person who loves Mrs Merkel more than me – Mistah Putin.
He sold Germany and Europe a lot of gas, and now the vacuum left in his absence has led the populist Right to assert themselves against the Atlanticists.
As usual, Washington and London stand squarely behind such maneouvres.
Merkel dragged the country down, do not forget she was from East Germany as well. She let in too many immigrants , far too many into a country of that size, and all muslim, a liefstyle that contradicts what Germany is about, I know, because i lived there in 1974-1977 and 1984 in the US Amry. It was a great place then, but the Germans need to drop the “guilt complex” from WW2 they still carry around like a “ball& chain”, its not helpful to move forward. Germany willl get better with time, and gets back the middle and embracing their culture.
Merkel dragged the country down, do not forget she was from East Germany as well. She let in too many immigrants , far too many into a country of that size, and all muslim, a liefstyle that contradicts what Germany is about, I know, because i lived there in 1974-1977 and 1984 in the US Amry. It was a great place then, but the Germans need to drop the “guilt complex” from WW2 they still carry around like a “ball& chain”, its not helpful to move forward. Germany willl get better with time, and gets back the middle and embracing their culture.
Lest we forget:-
“Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt,
Wenn es stets zu Schutz und Trutze
Brüderlich zusammenhält.
Von der Maas bis an die Memel,
Von der Etsch bis an den Belt,
Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt.”
Lest we forget:-
“Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt,
Wenn es stets zu Schutz und Trutze
Brüderlich zusammenhält.
Von der Maas bis an die Memel,
Von der Etsch bis an den Belt,
Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt.”
How long before Zyclon B is contemplated?
Or has it been superseded by COVID II?
Have you been drinking Charles? Your comments, not that I agree with many of them, are usually better than this . In the outer reaches, it never ceases to be contemplated.
In future Keating please address me as Stanhope or Mr Stanhope, and not as Charles, as I find such familiarity quite unnecessary, not to say a little vulgar.
As to your insolent question no, never before 6pm, what about you?
I am glad to hear that in the “outer reaches” as you charmingly call them, ‘they’ are thinking of the future. Given your misanthropic remarks of earlier today I presume you must support them?
Perhaps Mr Stanhope was thinking about Canada’s MAID legislation which now accounts for 7% of deaths in Quebec. History suggests slippery slopes abound, particularly when the body is no longer held to be the creation of a higher power (whatever that might be).
Thank you.
Thank you.
In future Keating please address me as Stanhope or Mr Stanhope, and not as Charles, as I find such familiarity quite unnecessary, not to say a little vulgar.
As to your insolent question no, never before 6pm, what about you?
I am glad to hear that in the “outer reaches” as you charmingly call them, ‘they’ are thinking of the future. Given your misanthropic remarks of earlier today I presume you must support them?
Perhaps Mr Stanhope was thinking about Canada’s MAID legislation which now accounts for 7% of deaths in Quebec. History suggests slippery slopes abound, particularly when the body is no longer held to be the creation of a higher power (whatever that might be).
What a cheerful thought ….
Have you been drinking Charles? Your comments, not that I agree with many of them, are usually better than this . In the outer reaches, it never ceases to be contemplated.
What a cheerful thought ….
How long before Zyclon B is contemplated?
Or has it been superseded by COVID II?