On the one hand, I think it is quite marvellous that this stage of life is being talked about more. When I was learning the ropes of being a woman in the 90s, it was still a bit taboo, being over 40 was to be “over the hill” and miscarriage? Well, you’d just deal with it if and when you had one. Suck it up, ladies – figure it out for yourselves!
The new openness about female reproductive health is basically a positive thing. We’re no longer dried up old prunes post-menopause who are damned to wearing twin-sets and pearls and being irrelevant: we have just “evolved” onto the next stage of our lives. A woman’s ability (or willingness) to reproduce is no longer definitive of our role in society – thank heavens!
However – just with everything else: when an issue becomes a way not just to “break the taboo” but to get attention for oneself, then the discourse does get rather histrionic rather quickly.
As far as my body is concerned, I’m not fully buying into the Greer-ish “nothing of significance is happening” narrative. I’ve always been able to “just get on with things” as far as my cycle is concerned. I’ve climbed mountains, done 40km walks, trekked through Burma and run half marathons with my period and just dealt with it.
But I’ve been having night sweats since I was 32; the sleepless nights started in my late 30s (I’m now 41). And I have to admit: when you’re on your 4th sleepless night and pyjama soaking in a row, it is quite hard to just continue as normal. With more women talking about the issue, it’s a real comfort to know that I’m not the only one lying there in bed at 3am with a pool of sweat on my sternum.
Just bought myself “Woman On Fire” by the German gynaecologist Dr. Sheila de Liz. She’s generally a very positive and down-to-earth sort, so I’m looking forward to her insights.
Yes, this article does read that the author is finding women talking about their experiences to be inconvenient to her belief system. Yet while she acknowledges that, just with menses, menopause affects all women differently. What doesn’t help is that HRT doesn’t alleviate all symptoms nor can all women take it for a variety of reasons. Living and working with those women can be challenging during those times and it can exacerbated by them not recognising that their unreasonable stance is hormonal. I say this as a peri menopausal woman. In the moment you feel absolutely justified in you rage or frustration however on reflection (if you reflect) it can become clear. That’s not patriarchy, it reflection.
I finished my menopause when I was 34. Because of my age, I was told I had to take HRT. The first type caused me to cry all the time. The second made me want to kill people. I then decided medicine could go hang, and I went au naturale. My mood swings vanished. My depression disappeared and never came back. I don’t have osteoporosis as was predicted. My arthritis flares occasionally but that might have happened anyway. I am so glad I didn’t have to try to go through what I did in my 40s or 50s. Someone might just have died.
I finished my menopause when I was 34. Because of my age, I was told I had to take HRT. The first type caused me to cry all the time. The second made me want to kill people. I then decided medicine could go hang, and I went au naturale. My mood swings vanished. My depression disappeared and never came back. I don’t have osteoporosis as was predicted. My arthritis flares occasionally but that might have happened anyway. I am so glad I didn’t have to try to go through what I did in my 40s or 50s. Someone might just have died.
“climbed mountains, done 40km walks, trekked through Burma and run half marathons with my period and just dealt with it.”
Firstly, bravo! Really inspiring.
Secondly, I don’t think you are the target market here. Needs less doing, more complaining to be included in this club.
Even if it means little discomfort, doing mountain climbing or 40 km walks is gutsy.
Though part of the issue is, I guess, is not only that symptoms differ, but hardiness and toughness as well (for men or women). So the woman who is complaining most about symptoms might well not be the same as the one suffering most.
Check out the International Marching League for the long walks: they are held all over the world and the routes have various lengths. They are usually 2 day events but sometimes 3 or 4. Walking 40km a day on 3 consecutive days is a transformative experience I’d recommend to anyone. Proper mind-over-matter stuff, but also a spiritual experience if you’re open to that. And you meet some great people.
I don’t think Katherine speaks for all women – just running many kilometres through her period was ok for her, but she is clearly not listening to other women. Frankly I think the tone is dismissive
I was not being dismissive and it is not true that I am “clearly not listening to other women”. I was simply recounting my experiences and my own point of view which is that I think that some women do whinge and get histrionic to get attention – in this matter as in others.
This is also the reason why I generally regret joining in women’s discussions like this: I always end up being made to feel bad because I am deemed not sufficiently sympathetic to other women’s pain. And ironically, that’s when I DO get dismissive. THAT is when I think: “Oh, Lord – how bad do I have to feel to participate in this conversation? This is too much work – I’m off.”
Men don’t have conversations like this, and accuse each other of not taking other mens’ prostate issues seriously, for example. We women should learn off them.
But women keep an eye out for their menfolk too. Speaking to other women helps keep famies healthy. Don’t knock it, you might need it in the future. I know very few women who whinge without reason. I do know lots of men who whinge without reason or feeling for their womenfolk and their pain. Everyone is different. Again don’t knock it…
But women keep an eye out for their menfolk too. Speaking to other women helps keep famies healthy. Don’t knock it, you might need it in the future. I know very few women who whinge without reason. I do know lots of men who whinge without reason or feeling for their womenfolk and their pain. Everyone is different. Again don’t knock it…
I was not being dismissive and it is not true that I am “clearly not listening to other women”. I was simply recounting my experiences and my own point of view which is that I think that some women do whinge and get histrionic to get attention – in this matter as in others.
This is also the reason why I generally regret joining in women’s discussions like this: I always end up being made to feel bad because I am deemed not sufficiently sympathetic to other women’s pain. And ironically, that’s when I DO get dismissive. THAT is when I think: “Oh, Lord – how bad do I have to feel to participate in this conversation? This is too much work – I’m off.”
Men don’t have conversations like this, and accuse each other of not taking other mens’ prostate issues seriously, for example. We women should learn off them.
Deep depression and pain that stops you breathing happening every month from the age of 12 stops a girl/woman from climbing mountains and trekking 40 km during her period. I k ow, that was me. The other 2.5 weeks of the month, I swam long distances, ran miles each day, lifted immense weights. Then spent the rest of the month rocking in a corner or crying every time someone looked at me. If you haven’t been there…
Check out the International Marching League for the long walks: they are held all over the world and the routes have various lengths. They are usually 2 day events but sometimes 3 or 4. Walking 40km a day on 3 consecutive days is a transformative experience I’d recommend to anyone. Proper mind-over-matter stuff, but also a spiritual experience if you’re open to that. And you meet some great people.
I don’t think Katherine speaks for all women – just running many kilometres through her period was ok for her, but she is clearly not listening to other women. Frankly I think the tone is dismissive
Deep depression and pain that stops you breathing happening every month from the age of 12 stops a girl/woman from climbing mountains and trekking 40 km during her period. I k ow, that was me. The other 2.5 weeks of the month, I swam long distances, ran miles each day, lifted immense weights. Then spent the rest of the month rocking in a corner or crying every time someone looked at me. If you haven’t been there…
Even if it means little discomfort, doing mountain climbing or 40 km walks is gutsy.
Though part of the issue is, I guess, is not only that symptoms differ, but hardiness and toughness as well (for men or women). So the woman who is complaining most about symptoms might well not be the same as the one suffering most.
Yes, this article does read that the author is finding women talking about their experiences to be inconvenient to her belief system. Yet while she acknowledges that, just with menses, menopause affects all women differently. What doesn’t help is that HRT doesn’t alleviate all symptoms nor can all women take it for a variety of reasons. Living and working with those women can be challenging during those times and it can exacerbated by them not recognising that their unreasonable stance is hormonal. I say this as a peri menopausal woman. In the moment you feel absolutely justified in you rage or frustration however on reflection (if you reflect) it can become clear. That’s not patriarchy, it reflection.
“climbed mountains, done 40km walks, trekked through Burma and run half marathons with my period and just dealt with it.”
Firstly, bravo! Really inspiring.
Secondly, I don’t think you are the target market here. Needs less doing, more complaining to be included in this club.
Katharine Eyre
9 months ago
On the one hand, I think it is quite marvellous that this stage of life is being talked about more. When I was learning the ropes of being a woman in the 90s, it was still a bit taboo, being over 40 was to be “over the hill” and miscarriage? Well, you’d just deal with it if and when you had one. Suck it up, ladies – figure it out for yourselves!
The new openness about female reproductive health is basically a positive thing. We’re no longer dried up old prunes post-menopause who are damned to wearing twin-sets and pearls and being irrelevant: we have just “evolved” onto the next stage of our lives. A woman’s ability (or willingness) to reproduce is no longer definitive of our role in society – thank heavens!
However – just with everything else: when an issue becomes a way not just to “break the taboo” but to get attention for oneself, then the discourse does get rather histrionic rather quickly.
As far as my body is concerned, I’m not fully buying into the Greer-ish “nothing of significance is happening” narrative. I’ve always been able to “just get on with things” as far as my cycle is concerned. I’ve climbed mountains, done 40km walks, trekked through Burma and run half marathons with my period and just dealt with it.
But I’ve been having night sweats since I was 32; the sleepless nights started in my late 30s (I’m now 41). And I have to admit: when you’re on your 4th sleepless night and pyjama soaking in a row, it is quite hard to just continue as normal. With more women talking about the issue, it’s a real comfort to know that I’m not the only one lying there in bed at 3am with a pool of sweat on my sternum.
Just bought myself “Woman On Fire” by the German gynaecologist Dr. Sheila de Liz. She’s generally a very positive and down-to-earth sort, so I’m looking forward to her insights.
Last edited 9 months ago by Katharine Eyre
Allison Barrows
9 months ago
Good grief, women have been talking about their periods and menopause all of my life, and I’m 15 years older than the author. My grandmother would visibly perspire (she always had tissues in her bra), and just wave it away as “The Change”. My college roommate had periods so intense she’d lie on her stomach and I’d sit on her back (she claimed it helped).
HRT is dangerous stuff. It was determined to be the cause of my mother’s abdominal aortic aneurysm that killed her at 68, and did absolutely nothing to ease her menopause symptoms. Night sweats, hot flashes, and insomnia suck, but interfering with the body’s natural chemistry can be fatal.
As for “menopause madness”, why would anyone want to be associated with such a daft idea? I’m told we’re all strong, independent, capable, stunning, and brave.
My reaction entirely. Why on earth does Victoria Smith think that people have only just started talking about the menopause? I don’t recall any time when people weren’t discussing it, writing articles and books about it, and I’m 71. (I’ve just checked the British Library catalogue, and the first books focusing on the menopause date from the 1840s, though admittedly those were in French – the English didn’t join in till 1897.)
Actually, though, there’s an obvious reason: Ms Smith turned 45, and either started or approached the menopause. Men and women alike, we’re always far more tuned in to things that affect us personally, even though we may well have been unaware of them until that point. Unfortunately, it does tend to produce the sort of article that so much media, no matter what their political alignment, specialise in: indignation about something that’s apparently only just started happening, or is far worse than it ever was – except that, for those of us who’ve been around for some time, it’s just business as usual, possibly with extra glitter.
By the way, Steve Murray, I’ve watched all the Test matches, men’s and women’s, from start to finish, though admittedly it started in self-defence – my husband is a raving cricket nut.
My reaction entirely. Why on earth does Victoria Smith think that people have only just started talking about the menopause? I don’t recall any time when people weren’t discussing it, writing articles and books about it, and I’m 71. (I’ve just checked the British Library catalogue, and the first books focusing on the menopause date from the 1840s, though admittedly those were in French – the English didn’t join in till 1897.)
Actually, though, there’s an obvious reason: Ms Smith turned 45, and either started or approached the menopause. Men and women alike, we’re always far more tuned in to things that affect us personally, even though we may well have been unaware of them until that point. Unfortunately, it does tend to produce the sort of article that so much media, no matter what their political alignment, specialise in: indignation about something that’s apparently only just started happening, or is far worse than it ever was – except that, for those of us who’ve been around for some time, it’s just business as usual, possibly with extra glitter.
By the way, Steve Murray, I’ve watched all the Test matches, men’s and women’s, from start to finish, though admittedly it started in self-defence – my husband is a raving cricket nut.
Last edited 9 months ago by Sue Sims
Allison Barrows
9 months ago
Good grief, women have been talking about their periods and menopause all of my life, and I’m 15 years older than the author. My grandmother would visibly perspire (she always had tissues in her bra), and just wave it away as “The Change”. My college roommate had periods so intense she’d lie on her stomach and I’d sit on her back (she claimed it helped).
HRT is dangerous stuff. It was determined to be the cause of my mother’s abdominal aortic aneurysm that killed her at 68, and did absolutely nothing to ease her menopause symptoms. Night sweats, hot flashes, and insomnia suck, but interfering with the body’s natural chemistry can be fatal.
As for “menopause madness”, why would anyone want to be associated with such a daft idea? I’m told we’re all strong, independent, capable, stunning, and brave.
David Morley
9 months ago
The legacy of medical misogyny means there is pressure on women to emphasise the severity of symptoms in order to be taken seriously
The legacy of toxic masculinity means men have to be really ill before they go and see the doctor. Hence they are taken more seriously when they do.
I’m joking of course – but can we have more articles which are genuinely informative and a bit more fact based rather than just propped up with old feminist saws. It’s an important topic.
David Morley
9 months ago
The legacy of medical misogyny means there is pressure on women to emphasise the severity of symptoms in order to be taken seriously
The legacy of toxic masculinity means men have to be really ill before they go and see the doctor. Hence they are taken more seriously when they do.
I’m joking of course – but can we have more articles which are genuinely informative and a bit more fact based rather than just propped up with old feminist saws. It’s an important topic.
Daniel P
9 months ago
Well, as guy with a fiance that is going through it, had his mother live with him while she was going through it, and who has two sisters dealing with it, I am glad to hear women talk about it and provide some insight. Hard to be supportive or to understand how to react to things when you are left in the dark.
Obviously I have no direct experience of periods or menopause but it would seem to me that no two people are biologically exactly the same, male or female. It also would seem obvious that after decades of life that even if the original baselines were the same, a lived life is going to have an impact and so no two women will enter menopause with the same physical health. It seems highly probable then that no two women are going to experience menopause in the same way.
God bless those that get to cruise through and lets do all we can to set up as many women as possible to get through it in that manner.
That said, there are those, like my mother, who are going to have it rough, and who may well appear to be losing their minds, lash out at their friends and family, and be miserable. The question I guess is how to help these women before the impacts of what they are experiencing not only damages their mental and emotional well being but potentially their relationships.
There probably is a need for some form of resources for people who are dealing with women they love and care about that are going through this more extreme experience. We cannot help if we are in the dark and do not have an understanding. Also, as a single father of a, now grown, daughter, I had to deal with the birds and the bees issues that I suppose her mother would probably have dealt with. Parenting is about preparing your child for life. I got through periods and feminine hygiene, dating, all the basics, but it never occured to me that I should probably prepare her at some level for what she will face in 30 years or so. I managed to get through the biological clock at its potential impacts on her life choices but never talked about what happens when the clock stops. I prepared her to save for retirement but not this.
A man who listens and has logic and empathy. Thanks for this. I cruised through it all (inasmuch as women cruise), but so many of my friends did not.
Daniel P
9 months ago
Well, as guy with a fiance that is going through it, had his mother live with him while she was going through it, and who has two sisters dealing with it, I am glad to hear women talk about it and provide some insight. Hard to be supportive or to understand how to react to things when you are left in the dark.
Obviously I have no direct experience of periods or menopause but it would seem to me that no two people are biologically exactly the same, male or female. It also would seem obvious that after decades of life that even if the original baselines were the same, a lived life is going to have an impact and so no two women will enter menopause with the same physical health. It seems highly probable then that no two women are going to experience menopause in the same way.
God bless those that get to cruise through and lets do all we can to set up as many women as possible to get through it in that manner.
That said, there are those, like my mother, who are going to have it rough, and who may well appear to be losing their minds, lash out at their friends and family, and be miserable. The question I guess is how to help these women before the impacts of what they are experiencing not only damages their mental and emotional well being but potentially their relationships.
There probably is a need for some form of resources for people who are dealing with women they love and care about that are going through this more extreme experience. We cannot help if we are in the dark and do not have an understanding. Also, as a single father of a, now grown, daughter, I had to deal with the birds and the bees issues that I suppose her mother would probably have dealt with. Parenting is about preparing your child for life. I got through periods and feminine hygiene, dating, all the basics, but it never occured to me that I should probably prepare her at some level for what she will face in 30 years or so. I managed to get through the biological clock at its potential impacts on her life choices but never talked about what happens when the clock stops. I prepared her to save for retirement but not this.
Thanks for this article.
William Shaw
9 months ago
First we hear about period issues and the need for free sanitary supplies, then it’s pelvic floor dysfunction and the need for special lessons in school, now it’s menopause.
Women are strong, independent and can do anything a man can do except apparently just get on with their lives without massive government intervention and medical support.
All the imagination you need is trying to conceive of having a monthly period of pain (to a greater or lesser degree), accompanied by a loss of control in respect of something that emanates from your body. Try some of this imagination.
The problem here, and with those other articles you mentioned, is that there is no solution proposed, nothing positive expected or planned.
Of course, the usual “it’s all the men’s fault” patriarchy reference (even for something where practically every medical professional involved would be a woman), and barely a hint of acceptance that it’s primarily women who need to be less judgemental and more understanding of those differences within women.
But ultimately, complaining, mainly about men, and often about things that don’t even exist in today’s society, is the objective, not the means.
Interesting how that mindset fits closely with how so many of my female relatives think, but none of the men (who might be awful in certain cases, but don’t sit around complaining and expecting sympathy).
Samir, I would genuinely like to know what triggers you about women? Is it strong women? Is it logical women? It certainly isn’t just hard line feminists. Every thread on women, here you are dripping bitterness.
Female medicine was dominated by male doctors who didn’t believe women, no matter what they were going through. If they are still alive, go speak to your grandmother or mother. .. They will tell you how often valium was prescribed for everything from periods, menopause or serious conditions like stroke. When I was a kid, most of the older women I knew apart from my two grans and their sisters, were addicted to prescribed diazepam. My grans and great aunts simply never went near a doctor…remembering how much it cost when they were growing up!
Samir, I would genuinely like to know what triggers you about women? Is it strong women? Is it logical women? It certainly isn’t just hard line feminists. Every thread on women, here you are dripping bitterness.
Female medicine was dominated by male doctors who didn’t believe women, no matter what they were going through. If they are still alive, go speak to your grandmother or mother. .. They will tell you how often valium was prescribed for everything from periods, menopause or serious conditions like stroke. When I was a kid, most of the older women I knew apart from my two grans and their sisters, were addicted to prescribed diazepam. My grans and great aunts simply never went near a doctor…remembering how much it cost when they were growing up!
All the imagination you need is trying to conceive of having a monthly period of pain (to a greater or lesser degree), accompanied by a loss of control in respect of something that emanates from your body. Try some of this imagination.
The problem here, and with those other articles you mentioned, is that there is no solution proposed, nothing positive expected or planned.
Of course, the usual “it’s all the men’s fault” patriarchy reference (even for something where practically every medical professional involved would be a woman), and barely a hint of acceptance that it’s primarily women who need to be less judgemental and more understanding of those differences within women.
But ultimately, complaining, mainly about men, and often about things that don’t even exist in today’s society, is the objective, not the means.
Interesting how that mindset fits closely with how so many of my female relatives think, but none of the men (who might be awful in certain cases, but don’t sit around complaining and expecting sympathy).
William Shaw
9 months ago
First we hear about period issues and the need for free sanitary supplies, then it’s pelvic floor dysfunction and the need for special lessons in school, now it’s menopause.
Women are strong, independent and can do anything a man can do except apparently just get on with their lives without massive government intervention and medical support.
Maggi B
9 months ago
Yes – the space between the two discourses is a fine one to tread, and we’ll articulated here. Having had breast cancer I can’t use HRT. I don’t feel remotely ‘mad’ just sleep deprived at a time when we are barraged with information about the importance of sleep. On a bad night I will have 8-10 episodes where I wake with a hot flush. Thankfully I am retired. Yet at a recent conference I discussed this with a woman who has written a book about the ‘invention of menopause’ – who says it never existed back in the day. Hard one that.
Thanks Maggi, but when was “back in the day”? It’s surely only in relatively modern times that so many women lived long enough to experience menopause.
I think we’ve also lost a generation that had experienced menopause fully. I know my grandmother never discussed menopause with my mother and she (mother) was encouraged to go straight on to HRT, by her doctor, when she reached “a certain age” (peri menopause). She was on it till she was forced to come off due to breast cancer. Then she started to experience menopause symptoms and then she died. The greatest lesson my sister and I got from that was to avoid HRT and anything oestrogen related. Patience is helpful when supporting menopausal and peri menopausal women.
Thank you, I like your contribution. I am nearly 48 and struggle with aspects of peri menopause. I think it is hard. I also think it is natural. Not everything that is uncomfortable, needs to be fixed. It’s a bit like puberty in that way. Something you have to go through, and that’s OK.
Thank you, I like your contribution. I am nearly 48 and struggle with aspects of peri menopause. I think it is hard. I also think it is natural. Not everything that is uncomfortable, needs to be fixed. It’s a bit like puberty in that way. Something you have to go through, and that’s OK.
I think we’ve also lost a generation that had experienced menopause fully. I know my grandmother never discussed menopause with my mother and she (mother) was encouraged to go straight on to HRT, by her doctor, when she reached “a certain age” (peri menopause). She was on it till she was forced to come off due to breast cancer. Then she started to experience menopause symptoms and then she died. The greatest lesson my sister and I got from that was to avoid HRT and anything oestrogen related. Patience is helpful when supporting menopausal and peri menopausal women.
Thanks Maggi, but when was “back in the day”? It’s surely only in relatively modern times that so many women lived long enough to experience menopause.
Back in the day many women did not experience menopause because they had died.
Maggi B
9 months ago
Yes – the space between the two discourses is a fine one to tread, and we’ll articulated here. Having had breast cancer I can’t use HRT. I don’t feel remotely ‘mad’ just sleep deprived at a time when we are barraged with information about the importance of sleep. On a bad night I will have 8-10 episodes where I wake with a hot flush. Thankfully I am retired. Yet at a recent conference I discussed this with a woman who has written a book about the ‘invention of menopause’ – who says it never existed back in the day. Hard one that.
Alex Stonor
9 months ago
The menopause offers a great opportunity to medicalise a life course stage, starting with the Marina coil in early 40s to manage icky symptoms and prime women for further engagement with longterm medicalisation. The Government recently released a Gender Health Gap Review and propose to make it easier & cheaper for women to access long term treatment for being non-fertile; the treatment doesn’t address all the symtoms by the way. As far as I can tell, female friends choosing to go it alone (without HRT) are in the minority. I think this a shame because I have found, despite an unpleasant transition, that the psychological, emotional & physical benefits of having no hormones left are hard to quantify; in a positive way.
Alex Stonor
9 months ago
The menopause offers a great opportunity to medicalise a life course stage, starting with the Marina coil in early 40s to manage icky symptoms and prime women for further engagement with longterm medicalisation. The Government recently released a Gender Health Gap Review and propose to make it easier & cheaper for women to access long term treatment for being non-fertile; the treatment doesn’t address all the symtoms by the way. As far as I can tell, female friends choosing to go it alone (without HRT) are in the minority. I think this a shame because I have found, despite an unpleasant transition, that the psychological, emotional & physical benefits of having no hormones left are hard to quantify; in a positive way.
Andy Iddon
9 months ago
I just don’t get the calls by Greer of mysogyny, TBH – it seems based in projection or toxic egocentrism, where the individual is berating the outside world for noticing her erratic behaviour, deliberately disregarding the boundaries her inward experiencing and the innocent passers-by unfortunate enough to be exposed her psyche. It seems like toxic femininity, so lacking in self-awareness and full of anger, entitlement and resentment.
The sooner things move from anger to compassion for self amd others by those undergoing menopause the better IMHO.
Last edited 9 months ago by Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
9 months ago
I just don’t get the calls by Greer of mysogyny, TBH – it seems based in projection or toxic egocentrism, where the individual is berating the outside world for noticing her erratic behaviour, deliberately disregarding the boundaries her inward experiencing and the innocent passers-by unfortunate enough to be exposed her psyche. It seems like toxic femininity, so lacking in self-awareness and full of anger, entitlement and resentment.
The sooner things move from anger to compassion for self amd others by those undergoing menopause the better IMHO.
You mean to say you’ve not been following the Lionesses’ tentative progress at the World Cup, following on from their triumph in the European Championships?
Funnily enough, I haven’t met a single women who is “following” them so far.
Just like none of the feminist moms I have met bother to take their daughters to sports, STEM activities, etc.
There are plenty dads taking their girls to watch the world cup matches on huge tvs in football grounds. Why does it have to be something mums fo? You need to get out more…
Women take no interest in football, take no initiative in getting their daughters interested, but somehow they should still demand the same pay and media attention as the far superior men’s football formats?
Pathetic.
Women take no interest in football, take no initiative in getting their daughters interested, but somehow they should still demand the same pay and media attention as the far superior men’s football formats?
Pathetic.
There are plenty dads taking their girls to watch the world cup matches on huge tvs in football grounds. Why does it have to be something mums fo? You need to get out more…
Funnily enough, I haven’t met a single women who is “following” them so far.
Just like none of the feminist moms I have met bother to take their daughters to sports, STEM activities, etc.
The World Cup is underway right now I think. Seem to be lots of pics of women running around. I don’t suppose many of them are old enough to be experiencing menopause. Women’s World Cup of course.
You mean to say you’ve not been following the Lionesses’ tentative progress at the World Cup, following on from their triumph in the European Championships?
The World Cup is underway right now I think. Seem to be lots of pics of women running around. I don’t suppose many of them are old enough to be experiencing menopause. Women’s World Cup of course.
This is the point in a conversation when my father would leave the room to work under his car. Perhaps some others would like to join him?
Bernard Hill
9 months ago
…the footy season’s not far away now is it.
Emmanuel MARTIN
9 months ago
Yeah, we really need to show more appreciation for the demands and feelings of Karen.
TheElephant InTheRoom
9 months ago
Oh no! More mental illness and celebrations of instability! Get hold of yourselves, go for a walk, stay in shape and keep a fan running nearby….
TheElephant InTheRoom
9 months ago
Oh no! More mental illness and celebrations of instability! Get hold of yourselves, go for a walk, stay in shape and keep a fan running nearby….
William Edward Henry Appleby
9 months ago
Is it really so bad? Or do we just get to hear from that minority that seems to suffer, ie. a selection bias?
William Edward Henry Appleby
9 months ago
Is it really so bad? Or do we just get to hear from that minority that seems to suffer, ie. a selection bias?
Susan Bennett
9 months ago
Anything to do with the menopause makes my heart sink. I had 2 hot flushes, 20 years ago, before starting menopace tablets. I never had another. The magic ingredient is soy isoflavones which is why Chinese women have few menopausal symptoms. I told all the women I knew the good news but not one was interested. I got the impresssion that the menopause was a rite of passage and if you didn’t have something to moan about you weren’t doing it right. Sorry ladies, I wish you’d go back to moaning in private and stop taking up airtime and column inches with your whinging.
“Hormone levels. Because soy can have estrogenic properties, its effects can vary depending on the existing level of hormones in the body. Premenopausal women have much higher circulating levels of estradiol—the major form of estrogen in the human body—than postmenopausal women. In this context soy may act like an anti-estrogen, but among postmenopausal women soy may act more like an estrogen. Also, women with breast cancer are classified into hormone type—either hormone positive (ER+/PR+) or hormone negative (ER-/PR-) breast cancer—and these tumors respond differently to estrogens.“
Women who can’t take HRT will probably have the same issue with menopace. Is being genetically susceptible to estrogen eating cancer our own dumb fault?
James Wong – he wrote a book about grow your own “drugs” his menopause remedy was sage leaves and raspberry leaf tea – worked for me – not another hot flush or night sweat – don’t know about brain fog as I don’t know what that is!!
“Hormone levels. Because soy can have estrogenic properties, its effects can vary depending on the existing level of hormones in the body. Premenopausal women have much higher circulating levels of estradiol—the major form of estrogen in the human body—than postmenopausal women. In this context soy may act like an anti-estrogen, but among postmenopausal women soy may act more like an estrogen. Also, women with breast cancer are classified into hormone type—either hormone positive (ER+/PR+) or hormone negative (ER-/PR-) breast cancer—and these tumors respond differently to estrogens.“
Women who can’t take HRT will probably have the same issue with menopace. Is being genetically susceptible to estrogen eating cancer our own dumb fault?
James Wong – he wrote a book about grow your own “drugs” his menopause remedy was sage leaves and raspberry leaf tea – worked for me – not another hot flush or night sweat – don’t know about brain fog as I don’t know what that is!!
Susan Bennett
9 months ago
Anything to do with the menopause makes my heart sink. I had 2 hot flushes, 20 years ago, before starting menopace tablets. I never had another. The magic ingredient is soy isoflavones which is why Chinese women have few menopausal symptoms. I told all the women I knew the good news but not one was interested. I got the impresssion that the menopause was a rite of passage and if you didn’t have something to moan about you weren’t doing it right. Sorry ladies, I wish you’d go back to moaning in private and stop taking up airtime and column inches with your whinging.
Mike Buchanan
9 months ago
Hi Victoria. We’ve just posted a link to your interesting article on our main website http://j4mb.org.uk. It’s been 10 years since we last linked to your writings, a link to those pieces here https://j4mb.org.uk/?s=Glosswitch.
So, you at least admit that many women suffer debilitating symptoms from menopause, including ‘brain fog’ – something never suffered by men, obviously – which is one of the key determining indicators for a diagnosis of Feminist Delusion Disorder in the DSM-5, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition.
Speaking personally I wouldn’t want to fly in a plane piloted by a person with ‘brain fog’, nor have such a person carry out brain surgery on my daughters. Would you?
Mike Buchanan
JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS http://j4mb.org.uk
LAUGHING AT FEMINISTS http://laughingatfeminists.com
Do they really allow menopausal women to fly planes?
Shouldn’t that be a medical disqualification?
Mike Buchanan
9 months ago
Hi Victoria. We’ve just posted a link to your interesting article on our main website http://j4mb.org.uk. It’s been 10 years since we last linked to your writings, a link to those pieces here https://j4mb.org.uk/?s=Glosswitch.
So, you at least admit that many women suffer debilitating symptoms from menopause, including ‘brain fog’ – something never suffered by men, obviously – which is one of the key determining indicators for a diagnosis of Feminist Delusion Disorder in the DSM-5, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition.
Speaking personally I wouldn’t want to fly in a plane piloted by a person with ‘brain fog’, nor have such a person carry out brain surgery on my daughters. Would you?
Mike Buchanan
JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS http://j4mb.org.uk
LAUGHING AT FEMINISTS http://laughingatfeminists.com
On the one hand, I think it is quite marvellous that this stage of life is being talked about more. When I was learning the ropes of being a woman in the 90s, it was still a bit taboo, being over 40 was to be “over the hill” and miscarriage? Well, you’d just deal with it if and when you had one. Suck it up, ladies – figure it out for yourselves!
The new openness about female reproductive health is basically a positive thing. We’re no longer dried up old prunes post-menopause who are damned to wearing twin-sets and pearls and being irrelevant: we have just “evolved” onto the next stage of our lives. A woman’s ability (or willingness) to reproduce is no longer definitive of our role in society – thank heavens!
However – just with everything else: when an issue becomes a way not just to “break the taboo” but to get attention for oneself, then the discourse does get rather histrionic rather quickly.
As far as my body is concerned, I’m not fully buying into the Greer-ish “nothing of significance is happening” narrative. I’ve always been able to “just get on with things” as far as my cycle is concerned. I’ve climbed mountains, done 40km walks, trekked through Burma and run half marathons with my period and just dealt with it.
But I’ve been having night sweats since I was 32; the sleepless nights started in my late 30s (I’m now 41). And I have to admit: when you’re on your 4th sleepless night and pyjama soaking in a row, it is quite hard to just continue as normal. With more women talking about the issue, it’s a real comfort to know that I’m not the only one lying there in bed at 3am with a pool of sweat on my sternum.
Just bought myself “Woman On Fire” by the German gynaecologist Dr. Sheila de Liz. She’s generally a very positive and down-to-earth sort, so I’m looking forward to her insights.
Yes, this article does read that the author is finding women talking about their experiences to be inconvenient to her belief system. Yet while she acknowledges that, just with menses, menopause affects all women differently. What doesn’t help is that HRT doesn’t alleviate all symptoms nor can all women take it for a variety of reasons. Living and working with those women can be challenging during those times and it can exacerbated by them not recognising that their unreasonable stance is hormonal. I say this as a peri menopausal woman. In the moment you feel absolutely justified in you rage or frustration however on reflection (if you reflect) it can become clear. That’s not patriarchy, it reflection.
I finished my menopause when I was 34. Because of my age, I was told I had to take HRT. The first type caused me to cry all the time. The second made me want to kill people. I then decided medicine could go hang, and I went au naturale. My mood swings vanished. My depression disappeared and never came back. I don’t have osteoporosis as was predicted. My arthritis flares occasionally but that might have happened anyway. I am so glad I didn’t have to try to go through what I did in my 40s or 50s. Someone might just have died.
I finished my menopause when I was 34. Because of my age, I was told I had to take HRT. The first type caused me to cry all the time. The second made me want to kill people. I then decided medicine could go hang, and I went au naturale. My mood swings vanished. My depression disappeared and never came back. I don’t have osteoporosis as was predicted. My arthritis flares occasionally but that might have happened anyway. I am so glad I didn’t have to try to go through what I did in my 40s or 50s. Someone might just have died.
“climbed mountains, done 40km walks, trekked through Burma and run half marathons with my period and just dealt with it.”
Firstly, bravo! Really inspiring.
Secondly, I don’t think you are the target market here. Needs less doing, more complaining to be included in this club.
Menses are not the same for all women. Some hardly experience any discomfort (me), others have extreme pain and heavy flows. Google endometriosis.
Even if it means little discomfort, doing mountain climbing or 40 km walks is gutsy.
Though part of the issue is, I guess, is not only that symptoms differ, but hardiness and toughness as well (for men or women). So the woman who is complaining most about symptoms might well not be the same as the one suffering most.
Here’s an account of the best hike I ever did if you’re interested: https://katharinewrites.com/home/best-hike-gehrenspitze-tyrol/
Check out the International Marching League for the long walks: they are held all over the world and the routes have various lengths. They are usually 2 day events but sometimes 3 or 4. Walking 40km a day on 3 consecutive days is a transformative experience I’d recommend to anyone. Proper mind-over-matter stuff, but also a spiritual experience if you’re open to that. And you meet some great people.
Nice, thanks, and glad to know I am not the only husband who leaves his wife alone to wander off during treks…
Nice, thanks, and glad to know I am not the only husband who leaves his wife alone to wander off during treks…
I don’t think Katherine speaks for all women – just running many kilometres through her period was ok for her, but she is clearly not listening to other women. Frankly I think the tone is dismissive
I was not being dismissive and it is not true that I am “clearly not listening to other women”. I was simply recounting my experiences and my own point of view which is that I think that some women do whinge and get histrionic to get attention – in this matter as in others.
This is also the reason why I generally regret joining in women’s discussions like this: I always end up being made to feel bad because I am deemed not sufficiently sympathetic to other women’s pain. And ironically, that’s when I DO get dismissive. THAT is when I think: “Oh, Lord – how bad do I have to feel to participate in this conversation? This is too much work – I’m off.”
Men don’t have conversations like this, and accuse each other of not taking other mens’ prostate issues seriously, for example. We women should learn off them.
But women keep an eye out for their menfolk too. Speaking to other women helps keep famies healthy. Don’t knock it, you might need it in the future. I know very few women who whinge without reason. I do know lots of men who whinge without reason or feeling for their womenfolk and their pain. Everyone is different. Again don’t knock it…
But women keep an eye out for their menfolk too. Speaking to other women helps keep famies healthy. Don’t knock it, you might need it in the future. I know very few women who whinge without reason. I do know lots of men who whinge without reason or feeling for their womenfolk and their pain. Everyone is different. Again don’t knock it…
I was not being dismissive and it is not true that I am “clearly not listening to other women”. I was simply recounting my experiences and my own point of view which is that I think that some women do whinge and get histrionic to get attention – in this matter as in others.
This is also the reason why I generally regret joining in women’s discussions like this: I always end up being made to feel bad because I am deemed not sufficiently sympathetic to other women’s pain. And ironically, that’s when I DO get dismissive. THAT is when I think: “Oh, Lord – how bad do I have to feel to participate in this conversation? This is too much work – I’m off.”
Men don’t have conversations like this, and accuse each other of not taking other mens’ prostate issues seriously, for example. We women should learn off them.
Deep depression and pain that stops you breathing happening every month from the age of 12 stops a girl/woman from climbing mountains and trekking 40 km during her period. I k ow, that was me. The other 2.5 weeks of the month, I swam long distances, ran miles each day, lifted immense weights. Then spent the rest of the month rocking in a corner or crying every time someone looked at me. If you haven’t been there…
Here’s an account of the best hike I ever did if you’re interested: https://katharinewrites.com/home/best-hike-gehrenspitze-tyrol/
Check out the International Marching League for the long walks: they are held all over the world and the routes have various lengths. They are usually 2 day events but sometimes 3 or 4. Walking 40km a day on 3 consecutive days is a transformative experience I’d recommend to anyone. Proper mind-over-matter stuff, but also a spiritual experience if you’re open to that. And you meet some great people.
I don’t think Katherine speaks for all women – just running many kilometres through her period was ok for her, but she is clearly not listening to other women. Frankly I think the tone is dismissive
Deep depression and pain that stops you breathing happening every month from the age of 12 stops a girl/woman from climbing mountains and trekking 40 km during her period. I k ow, that was me. The other 2.5 weeks of the month, I swam long distances, ran miles each day, lifted immense weights. Then spent the rest of the month rocking in a corner or crying every time someone looked at me. If you haven’t been there…
Even if it means little discomfort, doing mountain climbing or 40 km walks is gutsy.
Though part of the issue is, I guess, is not only that symptoms differ, but hardiness and toughness as well (for men or women). So the woman who is complaining most about symptoms might well not be the same as the one suffering most.
Menses are not the same for all women. Some hardly experience any discomfort (me), others have extreme pain and heavy flows. Google endometriosis.
Yes, this article does read that the author is finding women talking about their experiences to be inconvenient to her belief system. Yet while she acknowledges that, just with menses, menopause affects all women differently. What doesn’t help is that HRT doesn’t alleviate all symptoms nor can all women take it for a variety of reasons. Living and working with those women can be challenging during those times and it can exacerbated by them not recognising that their unreasonable stance is hormonal. I say this as a peri menopausal woman. In the moment you feel absolutely justified in you rage or frustration however on reflection (if you reflect) it can become clear. That’s not patriarchy, it reflection.
“climbed mountains, done 40km walks, trekked through Burma and run half marathons with my period and just dealt with it.”
Firstly, bravo! Really inspiring.
Secondly, I don’t think you are the target market here. Needs less doing, more complaining to be included in this club.
On the one hand, I think it is quite marvellous that this stage of life is being talked about more. When I was learning the ropes of being a woman in the 90s, it was still a bit taboo, being over 40 was to be “over the hill” and miscarriage? Well, you’d just deal with it if and when you had one. Suck it up, ladies – figure it out for yourselves!
The new openness about female reproductive health is basically a positive thing. We’re no longer dried up old prunes post-menopause who are damned to wearing twin-sets and pearls and being irrelevant: we have just “evolved” onto the next stage of our lives. A woman’s ability (or willingness) to reproduce is no longer definitive of our role in society – thank heavens!
However – just with everything else: when an issue becomes a way not just to “break the taboo” but to get attention for oneself, then the discourse does get rather histrionic rather quickly.
As far as my body is concerned, I’m not fully buying into the Greer-ish “nothing of significance is happening” narrative. I’ve always been able to “just get on with things” as far as my cycle is concerned. I’ve climbed mountains, done 40km walks, trekked through Burma and run half marathons with my period and just dealt with it.
But I’ve been having night sweats since I was 32; the sleepless nights started in my late 30s (I’m now 41). And I have to admit: when you’re on your 4th sleepless night and pyjama soaking in a row, it is quite hard to just continue as normal. With more women talking about the issue, it’s a real comfort to know that I’m not the only one lying there in bed at 3am with a pool of sweat on my sternum.
Just bought myself “Woman On Fire” by the German gynaecologist Dr. Sheila de Liz. She’s generally a very positive and down-to-earth sort, so I’m looking forward to her insights.
Good grief, women have been talking about their periods and menopause all of my life, and I’m 15 years older than the author. My grandmother would visibly perspire (she always had tissues in her bra), and just wave it away as “The Change”. My college roommate had periods so intense she’d lie on her stomach and I’d sit on her back (she claimed it helped).
HRT is dangerous stuff. It was determined to be the cause of my mother’s abdominal aortic aneurysm that killed her at 68, and did absolutely nothing to ease her menopause symptoms. Night sweats, hot flashes, and insomnia suck, but interfering with the body’s natural chemistry can be fatal.
As for “menopause madness”, why would anyone want to be associated with such a daft idea? I’m told we’re all strong, independent, capable, stunning, and brave.
My reaction entirely. Why on earth does Victoria Smith think that people have only just started talking about the menopause? I don’t recall any time when people weren’t discussing it, writing articles and books about it, and I’m 71. (I’ve just checked the British Library catalogue, and the first books focusing on the menopause date from the 1840s, though admittedly those were in French – the English didn’t join in till 1897.)
Actually, though, there’s an obvious reason: Ms Smith turned 45, and either started or approached the menopause. Men and women alike, we’re always far more tuned in to things that affect us personally, even though we may well have been unaware of them until that point. Unfortunately, it does tend to produce the sort of article that so much media, no matter what their political alignment, specialise in: indignation about something that’s apparently only just started happening, or is far worse than it ever was – except that, for those of us who’ve been around for some time, it’s just business as usual, possibly with extra glitter.
By the way, Steve Murray, I’ve watched all the Test matches, men’s and women’s, from start to finish, though admittedly it started in self-defence – my husband is a raving cricket nut.
My reaction entirely. Why on earth does Victoria Smith think that people have only just started talking about the menopause? I don’t recall any time when people weren’t discussing it, writing articles and books about it, and I’m 71. (I’ve just checked the British Library catalogue, and the first books focusing on the menopause date from the 1840s, though admittedly those were in French – the English didn’t join in till 1897.)
Actually, though, there’s an obvious reason: Ms Smith turned 45, and either started or approached the menopause. Men and women alike, we’re always far more tuned in to things that affect us personally, even though we may well have been unaware of them until that point. Unfortunately, it does tend to produce the sort of article that so much media, no matter what their political alignment, specialise in: indignation about something that’s apparently only just started happening, or is far worse than it ever was – except that, for those of us who’ve been around for some time, it’s just business as usual, possibly with extra glitter.
By the way, Steve Murray, I’ve watched all the Test matches, men’s and women’s, from start to finish, though admittedly it started in self-defence – my husband is a raving cricket nut.
Good grief, women have been talking about their periods and menopause all of my life, and I’m 15 years older than the author. My grandmother would visibly perspire (she always had tissues in her bra), and just wave it away as “The Change”. My college roommate had periods so intense she’d lie on her stomach and I’d sit on her back (she claimed it helped).
HRT is dangerous stuff. It was determined to be the cause of my mother’s abdominal aortic aneurysm that killed her at 68, and did absolutely nothing to ease her menopause symptoms. Night sweats, hot flashes, and insomnia suck, but interfering with the body’s natural chemistry can be fatal.
As for “menopause madness”, why would anyone want to be associated with such a daft idea? I’m told we’re all strong, independent, capable, stunning, and brave.
The legacy of toxic masculinity means men have to be really ill before they go and see the doctor. Hence they are taken more seriously when they do.
I’m joking of course – but can we have more articles which are genuinely informative and a bit more fact based rather than just propped up with old feminist saws. It’s an important topic.
The legacy of toxic masculinity means men have to be really ill before they go and see the doctor. Hence they are taken more seriously when they do.
I’m joking of course – but can we have more articles which are genuinely informative and a bit more fact based rather than just propped up with old feminist saws. It’s an important topic.
Well, as guy with a fiance that is going through it, had his mother live with him while she was going through it, and who has two sisters dealing with it, I am glad to hear women talk about it and provide some insight. Hard to be supportive or to understand how to react to things when you are left in the dark.
Obviously I have no direct experience of periods or menopause but it would seem to me that no two people are biologically exactly the same, male or female. It also would seem obvious that after decades of life that even if the original baselines were the same, a lived life is going to have an impact and so no two women will enter menopause with the same physical health. It seems highly probable then that no two women are going to experience menopause in the same way.
God bless those that get to cruise through and lets do all we can to set up as many women as possible to get through it in that manner.
That said, there are those, like my mother, who are going to have it rough, and who may well appear to be losing their minds, lash out at their friends and family, and be miserable. The question I guess is how to help these women before the impacts of what they are experiencing not only damages their mental and emotional well being but potentially their relationships.
There probably is a need for some form of resources for people who are dealing with women they love and care about that are going through this more extreme experience. We cannot help if we are in the dark and do not have an understanding. Also, as a single father of a, now grown, daughter, I had to deal with the birds and the bees issues that I suppose her mother would probably have dealt with. Parenting is about preparing your child for life. I got through periods and feminine hygiene, dating, all the basics, but it never occured to me that I should probably prepare her at some level for what she will face in 30 years or so. I managed to get through the biological clock at its potential impacts on her life choices but never talked about what happens when the clock stops. I prepared her to save for retirement but not this.
Thanks for this article.
A man who listens and has logic and empathy. Thanks for this. I cruised through it all (inasmuch as women cruise), but so many of my friends did not.
A man who listens and has logic and empathy. Thanks for this. I cruised through it all (inasmuch as women cruise), but so many of my friends did not.
Well, as guy with a fiance that is going through it, had his mother live with him while she was going through it, and who has two sisters dealing with it, I am glad to hear women talk about it and provide some insight. Hard to be supportive or to understand how to react to things when you are left in the dark.
Obviously I have no direct experience of periods or menopause but it would seem to me that no two people are biologically exactly the same, male or female. It also would seem obvious that after decades of life that even if the original baselines were the same, a lived life is going to have an impact and so no two women will enter menopause with the same physical health. It seems highly probable then that no two women are going to experience menopause in the same way.
God bless those that get to cruise through and lets do all we can to set up as many women as possible to get through it in that manner.
That said, there are those, like my mother, who are going to have it rough, and who may well appear to be losing their minds, lash out at their friends and family, and be miserable. The question I guess is how to help these women before the impacts of what they are experiencing not only damages their mental and emotional well being but potentially their relationships.
There probably is a need for some form of resources for people who are dealing with women they love and care about that are going through this more extreme experience. We cannot help if we are in the dark and do not have an understanding. Also, as a single father of a, now grown, daughter, I had to deal with the birds and the bees issues that I suppose her mother would probably have dealt with. Parenting is about preparing your child for life. I got through periods and feminine hygiene, dating, all the basics, but it never occured to me that I should probably prepare her at some level for what she will face in 30 years or so. I managed to get through the biological clock at its potential impacts on her life choices but never talked about what happens when the clock stops. I prepared her to save for retirement but not this.
Thanks for this article.
First we hear about period issues and the need for free sanitary supplies, then it’s pelvic floor dysfunction and the need for special lessons in school, now it’s menopause.
Women are strong, independent and can do anything a man can do except apparently just get on with their lives without massive government intervention and medical support.
All the imagination you need is trying to conceive of having a monthly period of pain (to a greater or lesser degree), accompanied by a loss of control in respect of something that emanates from your body. Try some of this imagination.
Sounds like a serious design flaw that could have been solved by a sphincter at the cervix.
Apparently, you know very little about the female reproductive system.
Apparently, you know very little about the female reproductive system.
Sounds like a serious design flaw that could have been solved by a sphincter at the cervix.
The problem here, and with those other articles you mentioned, is that there is no solution proposed, nothing positive expected or planned.
Of course, the usual “it’s all the men’s fault” patriarchy reference (even for something where practically every medical professional involved would be a woman), and barely a hint of acceptance that it’s primarily women who need to be less judgemental and more understanding of those differences within women.
But ultimately, complaining, mainly about men, and often about things that don’t even exist in today’s society, is the objective, not the means.
Interesting how that mindset fits closely with how so many of my female relatives think, but none of the men (who might be awful in certain cases, but don’t sit around complaining and expecting sympathy).
Samir, I would genuinely like to know what triggers you about women? Is it strong women? Is it logical women? It certainly isn’t just hard line feminists. Every thread on women, here you are dripping bitterness.
From what he wrote it’s obvious that he’s tired of all the whining and man-blaming.
Whining about how it’s all men’s fault while refusing to take charge of your own life, isn’t “strength”.
From what he wrote it’s obvious that he’s tired of all the whining and man-blaming.
Whining about how it’s all men’s fault while refusing to take charge of your own life, isn’t “strength”.
Female medicine was dominated by male doctors who didn’t believe women, no matter what they were going through. If they are still alive, go speak to your grandmother or mother. .. They will tell you how often valium was prescribed for everything from periods, menopause or serious conditions like stroke. When I was a kid, most of the older women I knew apart from my two grans and their sisters, were addicted to prescribed diazepam. My grans and great aunts simply never went near a doctor…remembering how much it cost when they were growing up!
Samir, I would genuinely like to know what triggers you about women? Is it strong women? Is it logical women? It certainly isn’t just hard line feminists. Every thread on women, here you are dripping bitterness.
Female medicine was dominated by male doctors who didn’t believe women, no matter what they were going through. If they are still alive, go speak to your grandmother or mother. .. They will tell you how often valium was prescribed for everything from periods, menopause or serious conditions like stroke. When I was a kid, most of the older women I knew apart from my two grans and their sisters, were addicted to prescribed diazepam. My grans and great aunts simply never went near a doctor…remembering how much it cost when they were growing up!
All the imagination you need is trying to conceive of having a monthly period of pain (to a greater or lesser degree), accompanied by a loss of control in respect of something that emanates from your body. Try some of this imagination.
The problem here, and with those other articles you mentioned, is that there is no solution proposed, nothing positive expected or planned.
Of course, the usual “it’s all the men’s fault” patriarchy reference (even for something where practically every medical professional involved would be a woman), and barely a hint of acceptance that it’s primarily women who need to be less judgemental and more understanding of those differences within women.
But ultimately, complaining, mainly about men, and often about things that don’t even exist in today’s society, is the objective, not the means.
Interesting how that mindset fits closely with how so many of my female relatives think, but none of the men (who might be awful in certain cases, but don’t sit around complaining and expecting sympathy).
First we hear about period issues and the need for free sanitary supplies, then it’s pelvic floor dysfunction and the need for special lessons in school, now it’s menopause.
Women are strong, independent and can do anything a man can do except apparently just get on with their lives without massive government intervention and medical support.
Yes – the space between the two discourses is a fine one to tread, and we’ll articulated here. Having had breast cancer I can’t use HRT. I don’t feel remotely ‘mad’ just sleep deprived at a time when we are barraged with information about the importance of sleep. On a bad night I will have 8-10 episodes where I wake with a hot flush. Thankfully I am retired. Yet at a recent conference I discussed this with a woman who has written a book about the ‘invention of menopause’ – who says it never existed back in the day. Hard one that.
Thanks Maggi, but when was “back in the day”? It’s surely only in relatively modern times that so many women lived long enough to experience menopause.
I think we’ve also lost a generation that had experienced menopause fully. I know my grandmother never discussed menopause with my mother and she (mother) was encouraged to go straight on to HRT, by her doctor, when she reached “a certain age” (peri menopause). She was on it till she was forced to come off due to breast cancer. Then she started to experience menopause symptoms and then she died. The greatest lesson my sister and I got from that was to avoid HRT and anything oestrogen related. Patience is helpful when supporting menopausal and peri menopausal women.
Thanks Lindsay, interesting.
Thank you, I like your contribution. I am nearly 48 and struggle with aspects of peri menopause. I think it is hard. I also think it is natural. Not everything that is uncomfortable, needs to be fixed. It’s a bit like puberty in that way. Something you have to go through, and that’s OK.
Thanks Lindsay, interesting.
Thank you, I like your contribution. I am nearly 48 and struggle with aspects of peri menopause. I think it is hard. I also think it is natural. Not everything that is uncomfortable, needs to be fixed. It’s a bit like puberty in that way. Something you have to go through, and that’s OK.
I’m guessing she was talking about 18th or 19th century. I’d like to read the book but it’s an academic book that costs a couple of hundred dollars
I think we’ve also lost a generation that had experienced menopause fully. I know my grandmother never discussed menopause with my mother and she (mother) was encouraged to go straight on to HRT, by her doctor, when she reached “a certain age” (peri menopause). She was on it till she was forced to come off due to breast cancer. Then she started to experience menopause symptoms and then she died. The greatest lesson my sister and I got from that was to avoid HRT and anything oestrogen related. Patience is helpful when supporting menopausal and peri menopausal women.
I’m guessing she was talking about 18th or 19th century. I’d like to read the book but it’s an academic book that costs a couple of hundred dollars
Back in the day many women did not experience menopause because they had died.
Thanks Maggi, but when was “back in the day”? It’s surely only in relatively modern times that so many women lived long enough to experience menopause.
Back in the day many women did not experience menopause because they had died.
Yes – the space between the two discourses is a fine one to tread, and we’ll articulated here. Having had breast cancer I can’t use HRT. I don’t feel remotely ‘mad’ just sleep deprived at a time when we are barraged with information about the importance of sleep. On a bad night I will have 8-10 episodes where I wake with a hot flush. Thankfully I am retired. Yet at a recent conference I discussed this with a woman who has written a book about the ‘invention of menopause’ – who says it never existed back in the day. Hard one that.
The menopause offers a great opportunity to medicalise a life course stage, starting with the Marina coil in early 40s to manage icky symptoms and prime women for further engagement with longterm medicalisation. The Government recently released a Gender Health Gap Review and propose to make it easier & cheaper for women to access long term treatment for being non-fertile; the treatment doesn’t address all the symtoms by the way. As far as I can tell, female friends choosing to go it alone (without HRT) are in the minority. I think this a shame because I have found, despite an unpleasant transition, that the psychological, emotional & physical benefits of having no hormones left are hard to quantify; in a positive way.
The menopause offers a great opportunity to medicalise a life course stage, starting with the Marina coil in early 40s to manage icky symptoms and prime women for further engagement with longterm medicalisation. The Government recently released a Gender Health Gap Review and propose to make it easier & cheaper for women to access long term treatment for being non-fertile; the treatment doesn’t address all the symtoms by the way. As far as I can tell, female friends choosing to go it alone (without HRT) are in the minority. I think this a shame because I have found, despite an unpleasant transition, that the psychological, emotional & physical benefits of having no hormones left are hard to quantify; in a positive way.
I just don’t get the calls by Greer of mysogyny, TBH – it seems based in projection or toxic egocentrism, where the individual is berating the outside world for noticing her erratic behaviour, deliberately disregarding the boundaries her inward experiencing and the innocent passers-by unfortunate enough to be exposed her psyche. It seems like toxic femininity, so lacking in self-awareness and full of anger, entitlement and resentment.
The sooner things move from anger to compassion for self amd others by those undergoing menopause the better IMHO.
I just don’t get the calls by Greer of mysogyny, TBH – it seems based in projection or toxic egocentrism, where the individual is berating the outside world for noticing her erratic behaviour, deliberately disregarding the boundaries her inward experiencing and the innocent passers-by unfortunate enough to be exposed her psyche. It seems like toxic femininity, so lacking in self-awareness and full of anger, entitlement and resentment.
The sooner things move from anger to compassion for self amd others by those undergoing menopause the better IMHO.
…the footy season’s not far away now is it.
You mean to say you’ve not been following the Lionesses’ tentative progress at the World Cup, following on from their triumph in the European Championships?
What!? In contrast to the Test!
Men’s or women’s? I follow both! (the men’s much more avidly).
It’s still “batsman”, not “batter”…
Men’s or women’s? I follow both! (the men’s much more avidly).
It’s still “batsman”, not “batter”…
Funnily enough, I haven’t met a single women who is “following” them so far.
Just like none of the feminist moms I have met bother to take their daughters to sports, STEM activities, etc.
There are plenty dads taking their girls to watch the world cup matches on huge tvs in football grounds. Why does it have to be something mums fo? You need to get out more…
Women take no interest in football, take no initiative in getting their daughters interested, but somehow they should still demand the same pay and media attention as the far superior men’s football formats?
Pathetic.
Women take no interest in football, take no initiative in getting their daughters interested, but somehow they should still demand the same pay and media attention as the far superior men’s football formats?
Pathetic.
There are plenty dads taking their girls to watch the world cup matches on huge tvs in football grounds. Why does it have to be something mums fo? You need to get out more…
…the men o’ paws lot you mean?
What!? In contrast to the Test!
Funnily enough, I haven’t met a single women who is “following” them so far.
Just like none of the feminist moms I have met bother to take their daughters to sports, STEM activities, etc.
…the men o’ paws lot you mean?
Cricket’s been pretty exciting though. Pity about that early declaration.
I think next season of “real” football would be great, possibly for the first time in years multiple teams competing.
The World Cup is underway right now I think. Seem to be lots of pics of women running around. I don’t suppose many of them are old enough to be experiencing menopause. Women’s World Cup of course.
The English “Lionesses”……paws….no?
The English “Lionesses”……paws….no?
This is the point in a conversation when my father would leave the room to work under his car. Perhaps some others would like to join him?
….yes, good idea. Sometimes even serious matters, are best kept amongst the female team, until you have a role for the males to do.
….yes, good idea. Sometimes even serious matters, are best kept amongst the female team, until you have a role for the males to do.
You mean to say you’ve not been following the Lionesses’ tentative progress at the World Cup, following on from their triumph in the European Championships?
Cricket’s been pretty exciting though. Pity about that early declaration.
I think next season of “real” football would be great, possibly for the first time in years multiple teams competing.
The World Cup is underway right now I think. Seem to be lots of pics of women running around. I don’t suppose many of them are old enough to be experiencing menopause. Women’s World Cup of course.
This is the point in a conversation when my father would leave the room to work under his car. Perhaps some others would like to join him?
…the footy season’s not far away now is it.
Yeah, we really need to show more appreciation for the demands and feelings of Karen.
Oh no! More mental illness and celebrations of instability! Get hold of yourselves, go for a walk, stay in shape and keep a fan running nearby….
Oh no! More mental illness and celebrations of instability! Get hold of yourselves, go for a walk, stay in shape and keep a fan running nearby….
Is it really so bad? Or do we just get to hear from that minority that seems to suffer, ie. a selection bias?
Is it really so bad? Or do we just get to hear from that minority that seems to suffer, ie. a selection bias?
Anything to do with the menopause makes my heart sink. I had 2 hot flushes, 20 years ago, before starting menopace tablets. I never had another. The magic ingredient is soy isoflavones which is why Chinese women have few menopausal symptoms. I told all the women I knew the good news but not one was interested. I got the impresssion that the menopause was a rite of passage and if you didn’t have something to moan about you weren’t doing it right. Sorry ladies, I wish you’d go back to moaning in private and stop taking up airtime and column inches with your whinging.
“Hormone levels. Because soy can have estrogenic properties, its effects can vary depending on the existing level of hormones in the body. Premenopausal women have much higher circulating levels of estradiol—the major form of estrogen in the human body—than postmenopausal women. In this context soy may act like an anti-estrogen, but among postmenopausal women soy may act more like an estrogen. Also, women with breast cancer are classified into hormone type—either hormone positive (ER+/PR+) or hormone negative (ER-/PR-) breast cancer—and these tumors respond differently to estrogens.“
Women who can’t take HRT will probably have the same issue with menopace. Is being genetically susceptible to estrogen eating cancer our own dumb fault?
James Wong – he wrote a book about grow your own “drugs” his menopause remedy was sage leaves and raspberry leaf tea – worked for me – not another hot flush or night sweat – don’t know about brain fog as I don’t know what that is!!
“Hormone levels. Because soy can have estrogenic properties, its effects can vary depending on the existing level of hormones in the body. Premenopausal women have much higher circulating levels of estradiol—the major form of estrogen in the human body—than postmenopausal women. In this context soy may act like an anti-estrogen, but among postmenopausal women soy may act more like an estrogen. Also, women with breast cancer are classified into hormone type—either hormone positive (ER+/PR+) or hormone negative (ER-/PR-) breast cancer—and these tumors respond differently to estrogens.“
Women who can’t take HRT will probably have the same issue with menopace. Is being genetically susceptible to estrogen eating cancer our own dumb fault?
James Wong – he wrote a book about grow your own “drugs” his menopause remedy was sage leaves and raspberry leaf tea – worked for me – not another hot flush or night sweat – don’t know about brain fog as I don’t know what that is!!
Anything to do with the menopause makes my heart sink. I had 2 hot flushes, 20 years ago, before starting menopace tablets. I never had another. The magic ingredient is soy isoflavones which is why Chinese women have few menopausal symptoms. I told all the women I knew the good news but not one was interested. I got the impresssion that the menopause was a rite of passage and if you didn’t have something to moan about you weren’t doing it right. Sorry ladies, I wish you’d go back to moaning in private and stop taking up airtime and column inches with your whinging.
Hi Victoria. We’ve just posted a link to your interesting article on our main website http://j4mb.org.uk. It’s been 10 years since we last linked to your writings, a link to those pieces here https://j4mb.org.uk/?s=Glosswitch.
So, you at least admit that many women suffer debilitating symptoms from menopause, including ‘brain fog’ – something never suffered by men, obviously – which is one of the key determining indicators for a diagnosis of Feminist Delusion Disorder in the DSM-5, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition.
Speaking personally I wouldn’t want to fly in a plane piloted by a person with ‘brain fog’, nor have such a person carry out brain surgery on my daughters. Would you?
Mike Buchanan
JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS
http://j4mb.org.uk
LAUGHING AT FEMINISTS
http://laughingatfeminists.com
Do they really allow menopausal women to fly planes?
Shouldn’t that be a medical disqualification?
Do they really allow menopausal women to fly planes?
Shouldn’t that be a medical disqualification?
Hi Victoria. We’ve just posted a link to your interesting article on our main website http://j4mb.org.uk. It’s been 10 years since we last linked to your writings, a link to those pieces here https://j4mb.org.uk/?s=Glosswitch.
So, you at least admit that many women suffer debilitating symptoms from menopause, including ‘brain fog’ – something never suffered by men, obviously – which is one of the key determining indicators for a diagnosis of Feminist Delusion Disorder in the DSM-5, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition.
Speaking personally I wouldn’t want to fly in a plane piloted by a person with ‘brain fog’, nor have such a person carry out brain surgery on my daughters. Would you?
Mike Buchanan
JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS
http://j4mb.org.uk
LAUGHING AT FEMINISTS
http://laughingatfeminists.com