Retrospectively I would not have undertaken to be a carer. Hard, unremitting work that goes up as the caree’s capacity for independent action goes down. Calculations of how much longer are made. Appreciate these are brutal statements lacking compassion.
Not ‘lacking compassion’ at all, but acknowledging exhaustion and the years – decades – having to devote more and more time with less and less positive effect. I hope you can get at least a little support and time to look after your own health and welfare.
Not ‘lacking compassion’ at all, but acknowledging exhaustion and the years – decades – having to devote more and more time with less and less positive effect. I hope you can get at least a little support and time to look after your own health and welfare.
Susan Grabston
10 months ago
Retrospectively I would not have undertaken to be a carer. Hard, unremitting work that goes up as the caree’s capacity for independent action goes down. Calculations of how much longer are made. Appreciate these are brutal statements lacking compassion.
clare davies
10 months ago
There are more carers than before because people who would once have been able to retire at 60 to care for aging relatives now are forced to struggle on until 68 (or even longer). As I try to juggle work and my own aging aches and pains with a 93 year old mum and an elderly aunt with leukemia, despair sets in because I know there wont be anything left of the NHS or the pensions system to care for me when my turn comes.
There are more carers than before because people who would once have been able to retire at 60 to care for aging relatives now are forced to struggle on until 68 (or even longer). As I try to juggle work and my own aging aches and pains with a 93 year old mum and an elderly aunt with leukemia, despair sets in because I know there wont be anything left of the NHS or the pensions system to care for me when my turn comes.
Steve White
10 months ago
We live in a time where there is a collapse of integrity in leadership. Pragmatism has replaced love. Therefore, institutions themselves are too big to fail, and greater than the individual. The reality is that institutions only thrive when there are those who actually care about their fellow humanity and act accordingly.
What we have now is a sort of systemic narcissism, where people are to be used and discarded. We saw this coming. In America at least even companies replaced the departments that used to be called “Personnel Departments” with the name “Human Resources”. That’s significant. That’s significant language, and I would argue that it was a shift in thinking about a lot of things. In that change of language we see that there is no more personhood, but we humans are simply a resource…
Whatever it is, we are in the late stages of our cultures because of this shift. So, naturally everything is rotting, including the quality of those who would lead.
Some useful points, but like anyone else, you’ve no idea whether we’re in “the late stages of our cultures” or not, since you’ve no idea what comes after that. It could, for instance, be something completely unprecedented but positive, so please don’t reply with “another Dark Ages” or similar. None of us know; it’s not a fait accompli.
I do know that for 1500 years there have been various forms of Christendom, (some helpful and some not so helpful), in existence in the West. It was Aquinas who got the Greek philosophers (particularly Aristotle) accepted in the universities that brought us out of the so called “Dark Ages” with the Renaissance following, and Reformation following after that.
Some would claim the Enlightenment was the end of the “dark ages”, but Voltaire (the father of the Enlightenment) was inspired while sitting in an English prison, yet inspired as to how the English (with thier Reformation) were able to share power with the people without chaos. His writings later inspired the bloody and chaotic French Revolution, which the only way to stop that was with the authoritarian Napoleon ruling. Which will be the only way to bring order in many places in the future IMO.
The fact is that Christendom is dead, and the merger of Aristotelian particulars with universal truths from the Bible has been cast off in the West.
Like Nietzsche’s terror that “God is dead…we’ve killed him”, which gave rise to his replacement of “human excellence” to define universal truth, we’ve gone the exact opposite direction in an appeal to nihilistic postmodernism, or worse a sort of “might makes right”-ism. Either way, it’s already leading to chaos. It’s a philosophical, theological, and cultural dead ender.
You might be right about the fact that something unprecedented but positive, and not a sort of dark ages is in front of us, but I think it’s safe to say without some sort of dramatic change of course, or some act of God that causes change, the “ordinary means” will be that we’re headed towards disaster.
I would argue that it’s the process of disentangling our former naive beliefs that’s produced the current disruptions. If you believe in a god, of course you’ll yearn for us to revert to our former state – which led to disillusionment, producing precisely the problems you rail against! And you wish to continue repeating that unhappy cycle?
“Belief” systems have yet to be replaced with something more substantial – but the seeds are there, within our humanity. I know they are, because they exist within myself and others, and they’re entirely positive. One such seed is the wonder we experience as our technology allows us further and greater insights into the cosmos around us – entirely without any recourse to a creator. When those insights first came forth via Galileo, the result by your god-worshippers was torture and imprisonment.
I would argue that it’s the process of disentangling our former naive beliefs that’s produced the current disruptions. If you believe in a god, of course you’ll yearn for us to revert to our former state – which led to disillusionment, producing precisely the problems you rail against! And you wish to continue repeating that unhappy cycle?
“Belief” systems have yet to be replaced with something more substantial – but the seeds are there, within our humanity. I know they are, because they exist within myself and others, and they’re entirely positive. One such seed is the wonder we experience as our technology allows us further and greater insights into the cosmos around us – entirely without any recourse to a creator. When those insights first came forth via Galileo, the result by your god-worshippers was torture and imprisonment.
I do know that for 1500 years there have been various forms of Christendom, (some helpful and some not so helpful), in existence in the West. It was Aquinas who got the Greek philosophers (particularly Aristotle) accepted in the universities that brought us out of the so called “Dark Ages” with the Renaissance following, and Reformation following after that.
Some would claim the Enlightenment was the end of the “dark ages”, but Voltaire (the father of the Enlightenment) was inspired while sitting in an English prison, yet inspired as to how the English (with thier Reformation) were able to share power with the people without chaos. His writings later inspired the bloody and chaotic French Revolution, which the only way to stop that was with the authoritarian Napoleon ruling. Which will be the only way to bring order in many places in the future IMO.
The fact is that Christendom is dead, and the merger of Aristotelian particulars with universal truths from the Bible has been cast off in the West.
Like Nietzsche’s terror that “God is dead…we’ve killed him”, which gave rise to his replacement of “human excellence” to define universal truth, we’ve gone the exact opposite direction in an appeal to nihilistic postmodernism, or worse a sort of “might makes right”-ism. Either way, it’s already leading to chaos. It’s a philosophical, theological, and cultural dead ender.
You might be right about the fact that something unprecedented but positive, and not a sort of dark ages is in front of us, but I think it’s safe to say without some sort of dramatic change of course, or some act of God that causes change, the “ordinary means” will be that we’re headed towards disaster.
Some useful points, but like anyone else, you’ve no idea whether we’re in “the late stages of our cultures” or not, since you’ve no idea what comes after that. It could, for instance, be something completely unprecedented but positive, so please don’t reply with “another Dark Ages” or similar. None of us know; it’s not a fait accompli.
Steve White
10 months ago
We live in a time where there is a collapse of integrity in leadership. Pragmatism has replaced love. Therefore, institutions themselves are too big to fail, and greater than the individual. The reality is that institutions only thrive when there are those who actually care about their fellow humanity and act accordingly.
What we have now is a sort of systemic narcissism, where people are to be used and discarded. We saw this coming. In America at least even companies replaced the departments that used to be called “Personnel Departments” with the name “Human Resources”. That’s significant. That’s significant language, and I would argue that it was a shift in thinking about a lot of things. In that change of language we see that there is no more personhood, but we humans are simply a resource…
Whatever it is, we are in the late stages of our cultures because of this shift. So, naturally everything is rotting, including the quality of those who would lead.
These statistics highlights the scale of the problem. At the same time we read in the Telegraph a few days ago that Motability cars were being financed for the autistic and anxious and all sorts of near cosmetic procedures are financed by the NHS and the unemployment budget is enormous.
If people are to be left enough of their earnings to be incentivised to work prioritising where the health and social care budget is spent has to receive more attention and less attention be given to particularly noisy lobbying. Of course my assessment of priorities will not be the same as others and therein lies the difficulty – but some overall assessment must be made which does not appear to be done at present.
These statistics highlights the scale of the problem. At the same time we read in the Telegraph a few days ago that Motability cars were being financed for the autistic and anxious and all sorts of near cosmetic procedures are financed by the NHS and the unemployment budget is enormous.
If people are to be left enough of their earnings to be incentivised to work prioritising where the health and social care budget is spent has to receive more attention and less attention be given to particularly noisy lobbying. Of course my assessment of priorities will not be the same as others and therein lies the difficulty – but some overall assessment must be made which does not appear to be done at present.
John Dellingby
10 months ago
Even for those carers in paid work, their earnings are nothing more than a joke. Within the last year or two, I saw a job advert for a manager in a care home in East Anglia and it was paying £12.50 per hour. For that amount of responsibility and stress, that is a contemptible offer. Alas sometimes caters are their own worst enemy here as they will do it on the basis “someone has to do it” which leads to them being taken advantage of by these joke offers. I fear that as a society, we will just have to suck it up and pay more in taxes to fund this.
John Dellingby
10 months ago
Even for those carers in paid work, their earnings are nothing more than a joke. Within the last year or two, I saw a job advert for a manager in a care home in East Anglia and it was paying £12.50 per hour. For that amount of responsibility and stress, that is a contemptible offer. Alas sometimes caters are their own worst enemy here as they will do it on the basis “someone has to do it” which leads to them being taken advantage of by these joke offers. I fear that as a society, we will just have to suck it up and pay more in taxes to fund this.
Milton Gibbon
10 months ago
Another article pointing out a well known and well publicised opinion but with no reflection on the solution to this by the author. The bit she lost me was in denigrating productivity while earlier calling the amount carers are given as measly and the NHS insuffuciently funded. Where does she think more money would come from?
Once again an Unherd author in an article about carers forgets to mention what would have been the greatest national shake up in social care since the NHS abandoned it to private interest (with the conivance of the Church). This was Theresa May’s social care plan in the 2017 GE. Unbelievable. The fact that it was derided as a crackpot plan by a supposedly sociaist Labour party showed the baseness of their convictions. Does anyone really believe that Labour are any closer to grappling with the issue now? That should have at least been given a paragraph along with the lack of solutions from an opposition scared to face the challenges of government.
You were easily “lost”. Whilst social care is a sensitive subject, interpreting the author as denigrating productivity is being oversensitive: a more fair reading would be the current neglect of caring roles as non-productive – a subtle but important difference.
I agree about the failure of nerve regarding May’s sincere attempt to try to revise the caring settlement. Grasping the nettle was regarded with horror rather than necessity; meanwhile, millions of lives are put on hold out of a sense of love and duty.
You were easily “lost”. Whilst social care is a sensitive subject, interpreting the author as denigrating productivity is being oversensitive: a more fair reading would be the current neglect of caring roles as non-productive – a subtle but important difference.
I agree about the failure of nerve regarding May’s sincere attempt to try to revise the caring settlement. Grasping the nettle was regarded with horror rather than necessity; meanwhile, millions of lives are put on hold out of a sense of love and duty.
Last edited 10 months ago by Steve Murray
Milton Gibbon
10 months ago
Another article pointing out a well known and well publicised opinion but with no reflection on the solution to this by the author. The bit she lost me was in denigrating productivity while earlier calling the amount carers are given as measly and the NHS insuffuciently funded. Where does she think more money would come from?
Once again an Unherd author in an article about carers forgets to mention what would have been the greatest national shake up in social care since the NHS abandoned it to private interest (with the conivance of the Church). This was Theresa May’s social care plan in the 2017 GE. Unbelievable. The fact that it was derided as a crackpot plan by a supposedly sociaist Labour party showed the baseness of their convictions. Does anyone really believe that Labour are any closer to grappling with the issue now? That should have at least been given a paragraph along with the lack of solutions from an opposition scared to face the challenges of government.
laura m
10 months ago
I’m in California. When our youngest brother developed young onset Parkinson Disease he become a burden for our elderly mother. I stepped up to the job of securing his safety net benefits and putting a health/living plan in place. It is an arduous task which the US government makes more difficult for family of cognitively impaired people, especially the disabled without private insurance and housing. I succeeded, and for 7 years preformed all necessary caregiver functions alone. Hit the wall and my underlying neurological disease came out of remission. Now my sister is performing the job, much easier since all the pieces are in place, subsidized housing, routine care givers, quality Medi-caid funded health care and social security benefits. She has hit burn out after 7 years and wants me to take on the job next. I can’t turn away and pretend other options exist, they don’t, yet I am sad for myself as I enter my senior years.
Yes and in person meetings through local Parkinson groups. That said, my sketch points out several key issues, without an advocate, most seriously ill disabled folks cannot manage. Families are critical re: homeless untreated SMI and drug addicts and the serious ill disabled folks. The system needs to carve out case management approach for these groups. It ain’t $$, it is a failure to create the necessary housing plus services for folks disabled by serious disease. There are many potential fixes if the liability issues can be addressed.
Yes and in person meetings through local Parkinson groups. That said, my sketch points out several key issues, without an advocate, most seriously ill disabled folks cannot manage. Families are critical re: homeless untreated SMI and drug addicts and the serious ill disabled folks. The system needs to carve out case management approach for these groups. It ain’t $$, it is a failure to create the necessary housing plus services for folks disabled by serious disease. There are many potential fixes if the liability issues can be addressed.
It sounds grim. You have my utmost sympthy.Can you hook up with other carers via social media?
laura m
10 months ago
I’m in California. When our youngest brother developed young onset Parkinson Disease he become a burden for our elderly mother. I stepped up to the job of securing his safety net benefits and putting a health/living plan in place. It is an arduous task which the US government makes more difficult for family of cognitively impaired people, especially the disabled without private insurance and housing. I succeeded, and for 7 years preformed all necessary caregiver functions alone. Hit the wall and my underlying neurological disease came out of remission. Now my sister is performing the job, much easier since all the pieces are in place, subsidized housing, routine care givers, quality Medi-caid funded health care and social security benefits. She has hit burn out after 7 years and wants me to take on the job next. I can’t turn away and pretend other options exist, they don’t, yet I am sad for myself as I enter my senior years.
j watson
10 months ago
The sort of huge social policy issue it’s good to see UnHerd giving some space. Good grief this will be occupying many more lives now and in future than the latest Trans saga that we seem to get daily. And with 140k social care vacancies it also links to immigration policy.
Just to clarify though, May did not propose to fully implement Dilnot. The 2017 manifesto had different caps and little to nothing on the Dilnot recommendation general taxation had to share the load – to an estimated 0.22GDP by mid 20s. She was also blindsided by the dementia tax’ argument – which remains an issue now in that care for dementia is seen as social and not NHS care and thus means tested. She and the Tories proposed no change to that. That said she did deserve some credit for pushing something forward, but undone as much by her own side as anyone.
Tories now had 13 years, and furthermore with Brexit shrinking the social care workforce for a generation at least, even more reason to get on and deliver some fundamental change. Abject failure.
If there is a change of Govt let’s hope they’ve the strength to immediately seek cross party agreement to go back to Dilnot and largely implement what was recommended. Anyone got a better idea?
How about people look after their own families as happens as a matter of course (rich and poor) in mich of the non-western world and we don’t look to the state or a private institution to do it for us.
That is workable depending on what the needs of the individual in question are. Some people can no longer live at home due to the intense 24 hour care or supervision they need. If you are caring for a bedridden parent and they need to be changed, bathed etc and you are older or incapacitated yourself then your parent may need to be placed somewhere where they can receive a level of care that is needed.
If you are of an age where you need your own care then where are the children/grandchildren? A return to multi-generational living is the truly radical solution – free childcare for the young and loving care for the elderly/infirm. Freedom is all well and good until you can’t clean yourself.
A good enough idea where an elderly (grand) parent was a loving and caring individual. What about the uncaring and abusive? Do they have to be cared for too, or can they just be left in the gutter?
Great response. If your parents were uncaring should you not show them care? If they were abusive towards you and are not in a situation to be so any more then should you not try to forgive? Your argument sounds like an eye for an eye.
Great response. If your parents were uncaring should you not show them care? If they were abusive towards you and are not in a situation to be so any more then should you not try to forgive? Your argument sounds like an eye for an eye.
A good enough idea where an elderly (grand) parent was a loving and caring individual. What about the uncaring and abusive? Do they have to be cared for too, or can they just be left in the gutter?
If you are of an age where you need your own care then where are the children/grandchildren? A return to multi-generational living is the truly radical solution – free childcare for the young and loving care for the elderly/infirm. Freedom is all well and good until you can’t clean yourself.
Easier said than done however. With most families now requiring both parents to work full time simply to pay the rent (or mortgage if they’re one of the more fortunate ones), they simply don’t have the time or money to look after for family members that need full time attention.
Yes. Sorry CK for suggesting a solution. My grandmother was put into a home and I saw the way she was treated as a number for the staff – many of whom tried their best – but the point is that it was a lottery. One day she would get better care than I could have given her, the next not so. The care got worse as the years went on and she needed more help. Why do you put a difference of opinion down to ignorance?
Yes. Sorry CK for suggesting a solution. My grandmother was put into a home and I saw the way she was treated as a number for the staff – many of whom tried their best – but the point is that it was a lottery. One day she would get better care than I could have given her, the next not so. The care got worse as the years went on and she needed more help. Why do you put a difference of opinion down to ignorance?
I daresay some of this going to be more required whether we like it or not as a consequence of aging population. But caring full time for someone can require some support – even lifting, understanding pressure sores, avoiding deterioration that generates more hospital visits, etc. Don’t be to ‘rose tinted’ on this until you’ve done it and been utterly exhausted by it as it can be 24/7 relentless.
But it also it cuts across a economic requirement that we’ve mobile population able to do the jobs we need. We can already see the caring requirements are contributing to workforce shortages.
That is workable depending on what the needs of the individual in question are. Some people can no longer live at home due to the intense 24 hour care or supervision they need. If you are caring for a bedridden parent and they need to be changed, bathed etc and you are older or incapacitated yourself then your parent may need to be placed somewhere where they can receive a level of care that is needed.
Easier said than done however. With most families now requiring both parents to work full time simply to pay the rent (or mortgage if they’re one of the more fortunate ones), they simply don’t have the time or money to look after for family members that need full time attention.
I daresay some of this going to be more required whether we like it or not as a consequence of aging population. But caring full time for someone can require some support – even lifting, understanding pressure sores, avoiding deterioration that generates more hospital visits, etc. Don’t be to ‘rose tinted’ on this until you’ve done it and been utterly exhausted by it as it can be 24/7 relentless.
But it also it cuts across a economic requirement that we’ve mobile population able to do the jobs we need. We can already see the caring requirements are contributing to workforce shortages.
How about people look after their own families as happens as a matter of course (rich and poor) in mich of the non-western world and we don’t look to the state or a private institution to do it for us.
j watson
10 months ago
The sort of huge social policy issue it’s good to see UnHerd giving some space. Good grief this will be occupying many more lives now and in future than the latest Trans saga that we seem to get daily. And with 140k social care vacancies it also links to immigration policy.
Just to clarify though, May did not propose to fully implement Dilnot. The 2017 manifesto had different caps and little to nothing on the Dilnot recommendation general taxation had to share the load – to an estimated 0.22GDP by mid 20s. She was also blindsided by the dementia tax’ argument – which remains an issue now in that care for dementia is seen as social and not NHS care and thus means tested. She and the Tories proposed no change to that. That said she did deserve some credit for pushing something forward, but undone as much by her own side as anyone.
Tories now had 13 years, and furthermore with Brexit shrinking the social care workforce for a generation at least, even more reason to get on and deliver some fundamental change. Abject failure.
If there is a change of Govt let’s hope they’ve the strength to immediately seek cross party agreement to go back to Dilnot and largely implement what was recommended. Anyone got a better idea?
Retrospectively I would not have undertaken to be a carer. Hard, unremitting work that goes up as the caree’s capacity for independent action goes down. Calculations of how much longer are made. Appreciate these are brutal statements lacking compassion.
Fair and honest though. Thank you for sharing them.
Not ‘lacking compassion’ at all, but acknowledging exhaustion and the years – decades – having to devote more and more time with less and less positive effect. I hope you can get at least a little support and time to look after your own health and welfare.
Fair and honest though. Thank you for sharing them.
Not ‘lacking compassion’ at all, but acknowledging exhaustion and the years – decades – having to devote more and more time with less and less positive effect. I hope you can get at least a little support and time to look after your own health and welfare.
Retrospectively I would not have undertaken to be a carer. Hard, unremitting work that goes up as the caree’s capacity for independent action goes down. Calculations of how much longer are made. Appreciate these are brutal statements lacking compassion.
There are more carers than before because people who would once have been able to retire at 60 to care for aging relatives now are forced to struggle on until 68 (or even longer). As I try to juggle work and my own aging aches and pains with a 93 year old mum and an elderly aunt with leukemia, despair sets in because I know there wont be anything left of the NHS or the pensions system to care for me when my turn comes.
My concerns exactly!
My concerns exactly!
There are more carers than before because people who would once have been able to retire at 60 to care for aging relatives now are forced to struggle on until 68 (or even longer). As I try to juggle work and my own aging aches and pains with a 93 year old mum and an elderly aunt with leukemia, despair sets in because I know there wont be anything left of the NHS or the pensions system to care for me when my turn comes.
We live in a time where there is a collapse of integrity in leadership. Pragmatism has replaced love. Therefore, institutions themselves are too big to fail, and greater than the individual. The reality is that institutions only thrive when there are those who actually care about their fellow humanity and act accordingly.
What we have now is a sort of systemic narcissism, where people are to be used and discarded. We saw this coming. In America at least even companies replaced the departments that used to be called “Personnel Departments” with the name “Human Resources”. That’s significant. That’s significant language, and I would argue that it was a shift in thinking about a lot of things. In that change of language we see that there is no more personhood, but we humans are simply a resource…
Whatever it is, we are in the late stages of our cultures because of this shift. So, naturally everything is rotting, including the quality of those who would lead.
Some useful points, but like anyone else, you’ve no idea whether we’re in “the late stages of our cultures” or not, since you’ve no idea what comes after that. It could, for instance, be something completely unprecedented but positive, so please don’t reply with “another Dark Ages” or similar. None of us know; it’s not a fait accompli.
I do know that for 1500 years there have been various forms of Christendom, (some helpful and some not so helpful), in existence in the West. It was Aquinas who got the Greek philosophers (particularly Aristotle) accepted in the universities that brought us out of the so called “Dark Ages” with the Renaissance following, and Reformation following after that.
Some would claim the Enlightenment was the end of the “dark ages”, but Voltaire (the father of the Enlightenment) was inspired while sitting in an English prison, yet inspired as to how the English (with thier Reformation) were able to share power with the people without chaos. His writings later inspired the bloody and chaotic French Revolution, which the only way to stop that was with the authoritarian Napoleon ruling. Which will be the only way to bring order in many places in the future IMO.
The fact is that Christendom is dead, and the merger of Aristotelian particulars with universal truths from the Bible has been cast off in the West.
Like Nietzsche’s terror that “God is dead…we’ve killed him”, which gave rise to his replacement of “human excellence” to define universal truth, we’ve gone the exact opposite direction in an appeal to nihilistic postmodernism, or worse a sort of “might makes right”-ism. Either way, it’s already leading to chaos. It’s a philosophical, theological, and cultural dead ender.
You might be right about the fact that something unprecedented but positive, and not a sort of dark ages is in front of us, but I think it’s safe to say without some sort of dramatic change of course, or some act of God that causes change, the “ordinary means” will be that we’re headed towards disaster.
I would argue that it’s the process of disentangling our former naive beliefs that’s produced the current disruptions. If you believe in a god, of course you’ll yearn for us to revert to our former state – which led to disillusionment, producing precisely the problems you rail against! And you wish to continue repeating that unhappy cycle?
“Belief” systems have yet to be replaced with something more substantial – but the seeds are there, within our humanity. I know they are, because they exist within myself and others, and they’re entirely positive. One such seed is the wonder we experience as our technology allows us further and greater insights into the cosmos around us – entirely without any recourse to a creator. When those insights first came forth via Galileo, the result by your god-worshippers was torture and imprisonment.
Well, that was lazy.
Well, that was lazy.
Headed towards disaster for sure.
I would argue that it’s the process of disentangling our former naive beliefs that’s produced the current disruptions. If you believe in a god, of course you’ll yearn for us to revert to our former state – which led to disillusionment, producing precisely the problems you rail against! And you wish to continue repeating that unhappy cycle?
“Belief” systems have yet to be replaced with something more substantial – but the seeds are there, within our humanity. I know they are, because they exist within myself and others, and they’re entirely positive. One such seed is the wonder we experience as our technology allows us further and greater insights into the cosmos around us – entirely without any recourse to a creator. When those insights first came forth via Galileo, the result by your god-worshippers was torture and imprisonment.
Headed towards disaster for sure.
I kinda think it is a fait accompli.
I do know that for 1500 years there have been various forms of Christendom, (some helpful and some not so helpful), in existence in the West. It was Aquinas who got the Greek philosophers (particularly Aristotle) accepted in the universities that brought us out of the so called “Dark Ages” with the Renaissance following, and Reformation following after that.
Some would claim the Enlightenment was the end of the “dark ages”, but Voltaire (the father of the Enlightenment) was inspired while sitting in an English prison, yet inspired as to how the English (with thier Reformation) were able to share power with the people without chaos. His writings later inspired the bloody and chaotic French Revolution, which the only way to stop that was with the authoritarian Napoleon ruling. Which will be the only way to bring order in many places in the future IMO.
The fact is that Christendom is dead, and the merger of Aristotelian particulars with universal truths from the Bible has been cast off in the West.
Like Nietzsche’s terror that “God is dead…we’ve killed him”, which gave rise to his replacement of “human excellence” to define universal truth, we’ve gone the exact opposite direction in an appeal to nihilistic postmodernism, or worse a sort of “might makes right”-ism. Either way, it’s already leading to chaos. It’s a philosophical, theological, and cultural dead ender.
You might be right about the fact that something unprecedented but positive, and not a sort of dark ages is in front of us, but I think it’s safe to say without some sort of dramatic change of course, or some act of God that causes change, the “ordinary means” will be that we’re headed towards disaster.
I kinda think it is a fait accompli.
Some useful points, but like anyone else, you’ve no idea whether we’re in “the late stages of our cultures” or not, since you’ve no idea what comes after that. It could, for instance, be something completely unprecedented but positive, so please don’t reply with “another Dark Ages” or similar. None of us know; it’s not a fait accompli.
We live in a time where there is a collapse of integrity in leadership. Pragmatism has replaced love. Therefore, institutions themselves are too big to fail, and greater than the individual. The reality is that institutions only thrive when there are those who actually care about their fellow humanity and act accordingly.
What we have now is a sort of systemic narcissism, where people are to be used and discarded. We saw this coming. In America at least even companies replaced the departments that used to be called “Personnel Departments” with the name “Human Resources”. That’s significant. That’s significant language, and I would argue that it was a shift in thinking about a lot of things. In that change of language we see that there is no more personhood, but we humans are simply a resource…
Whatever it is, we are in the late stages of our cultures because of this shift. So, naturally everything is rotting, including the quality of those who would lead.
“There are 10.6 million of us in the UK, and we save the government £162 billion per year in England and Wales. (For context, in 2020-21, the NHS received an estimated £164 billion per year in funding.)”
These statistics highlights the scale of the problem. At the same time we read in the Telegraph a few days ago that Motability cars were being financed for the autistic and anxious and all sorts of near cosmetic procedures are financed by the NHS and the unemployment budget is enormous.
If people are to be left enough of their earnings to be incentivised to work prioritising where the health and social care budget is spent has to receive more attention and less attention be given to particularly noisy lobbying. Of course my assessment of priorities will not be the same as others and therein lies the difficulty – but some overall assessment must be made which does not appear to be done at present.
“There are 10.6 million of us in the UK, and we save the government £162 billion per year in England and Wales. (For context, in 2020-21, the NHS received an estimated £164 billion per year in funding.)”
These statistics highlights the scale of the problem. At the same time we read in the Telegraph a few days ago that Motability cars were being financed for the autistic and anxious and all sorts of near cosmetic procedures are financed by the NHS and the unemployment budget is enormous.
If people are to be left enough of their earnings to be incentivised to work prioritising where the health and social care budget is spent has to receive more attention and less attention be given to particularly noisy lobbying. Of course my assessment of priorities will not be the same as others and therein lies the difficulty – but some overall assessment must be made which does not appear to be done at present.
Even for those carers in paid work, their earnings are nothing more than a joke. Within the last year or two, I saw a job advert for a manager in a care home in East Anglia and it was paying £12.50 per hour. For that amount of responsibility and stress, that is a contemptible offer. Alas sometimes caters are their own worst enemy here as they will do it on the basis “someone has to do it” which leads to them being taken advantage of by these joke offers. I fear that as a society, we will just have to suck it up and pay more in taxes to fund this.
Even for those carers in paid work, their earnings are nothing more than a joke. Within the last year or two, I saw a job advert for a manager in a care home in East Anglia and it was paying £12.50 per hour. For that amount of responsibility and stress, that is a contemptible offer. Alas sometimes caters are their own worst enemy here as they will do it on the basis “someone has to do it” which leads to them being taken advantage of by these joke offers. I fear that as a society, we will just have to suck it up and pay more in taxes to fund this.
Another article pointing out a well known and well publicised opinion but with no reflection on the solution to this by the author. The bit she lost me was in denigrating productivity while earlier calling the amount carers are given as measly and the NHS insuffuciently funded. Where does she think more money would come from?
Once again an Unherd author in an article about carers forgets to mention what would have been the greatest national shake up in social care since the NHS abandoned it to private interest (with the conivance of the Church). This was Theresa May’s social care plan in the 2017 GE. Unbelievable. The fact that it was derided as a crackpot plan by a supposedly sociaist Labour party showed the baseness of their convictions. Does anyone really believe that Labour are any closer to grappling with the issue now? That should have at least been given a paragraph along with the lack of solutions from an opposition scared to face the challenges of government.
You were easily “lost”. Whilst social care is a sensitive subject, interpreting the author as denigrating productivity is being oversensitive: a more fair reading would be the current neglect of caring roles as non-productive – a subtle but important difference.
I agree about the failure of nerve regarding May’s sincere attempt to try to revise the caring settlement. Grasping the nettle was regarded with horror rather than necessity; meanwhile, millions of lives are put on hold out of a sense of love and duty.
You were easily “lost”. Whilst social care is a sensitive subject, interpreting the author as denigrating productivity is being oversensitive: a more fair reading would be the current neglect of caring roles as non-productive – a subtle but important difference.
I agree about the failure of nerve regarding May’s sincere attempt to try to revise the caring settlement. Grasping the nettle was regarded with horror rather than necessity; meanwhile, millions of lives are put on hold out of a sense of love and duty.
Another article pointing out a well known and well publicised opinion but with no reflection on the solution to this by the author. The bit she lost me was in denigrating productivity while earlier calling the amount carers are given as measly and the NHS insuffuciently funded. Where does she think more money would come from?
Once again an Unherd author in an article about carers forgets to mention what would have been the greatest national shake up in social care since the NHS abandoned it to private interest (with the conivance of the Church). This was Theresa May’s social care plan in the 2017 GE. Unbelievable. The fact that it was derided as a crackpot plan by a supposedly sociaist Labour party showed the baseness of their convictions. Does anyone really believe that Labour are any closer to grappling with the issue now? That should have at least been given a paragraph along with the lack of solutions from an opposition scared to face the challenges of government.
I’m in California. When our youngest brother developed young onset Parkinson Disease he become a burden for our elderly mother. I stepped up to the job of securing his safety net benefits and putting a health/living plan in place. It is an arduous task which the US government makes more difficult for family of cognitively impaired people, especially the disabled without private insurance and housing. I succeeded, and for 7 years preformed all necessary caregiver functions alone. Hit the wall and my underlying neurological disease came out of remission. Now my sister is performing the job, much easier since all the pieces are in place, subsidized housing, routine care givers, quality Medi-caid funded health care and social security benefits. She has hit burn out after 7 years and wants me to take on the job next. I can’t turn away and pretend other options exist, they don’t, yet I am sad for myself as I enter my senior years.
It sounds grim. You have my utmost sympthy.Can you hook up with other carers via social media?
Yes and in person meetings through local Parkinson groups. That said, my sketch points out several key issues, without an advocate, most seriously ill disabled folks cannot manage. Families are critical re: homeless untreated SMI and drug addicts and the serious ill disabled folks. The system needs to carve out case management approach for these groups. It ain’t $$, it is a failure to create the necessary housing plus services for folks disabled by serious disease. There are many potential fixes if the liability issues can be addressed.
Yes and in person meetings through local Parkinson groups. That said, my sketch points out several key issues, without an advocate, most seriously ill disabled folks cannot manage. Families are critical re: homeless untreated SMI and drug addicts and the serious ill disabled folks. The system needs to carve out case management approach for these groups. It ain’t $$, it is a failure to create the necessary housing plus services for folks disabled by serious disease. There are many potential fixes if the liability issues can be addressed.
It sounds grim. You have my utmost sympthy.Can you hook up with other carers via social media?
I’m in California. When our youngest brother developed young onset Parkinson Disease he become a burden for our elderly mother. I stepped up to the job of securing his safety net benefits and putting a health/living plan in place. It is an arduous task which the US government makes more difficult for family of cognitively impaired people, especially the disabled without private insurance and housing. I succeeded, and for 7 years preformed all necessary caregiver functions alone. Hit the wall and my underlying neurological disease came out of remission. Now my sister is performing the job, much easier since all the pieces are in place, subsidized housing, routine care givers, quality Medi-caid funded health care and social security benefits. She has hit burn out after 7 years and wants me to take on the job next. I can’t turn away and pretend other options exist, they don’t, yet I am sad for myself as I enter my senior years.
The sort of huge social policy issue it’s good to see UnHerd giving some space. Good grief this will be occupying many more lives now and in future than the latest Trans saga that we seem to get daily. And with 140k social care vacancies it also links to immigration policy.
Just to clarify though, May did not propose to fully implement Dilnot. The 2017 manifesto had different caps and little to nothing on the Dilnot recommendation general taxation had to share the load – to an estimated 0.22GDP by mid 20s. She was also blindsided by the dementia tax’ argument – which remains an issue now in that care for dementia is seen as social and not NHS care and thus means tested. She and the Tories proposed no change to that. That said she did deserve some credit for pushing something forward, but undone as much by her own side as anyone.
Tories now had 13 years, and furthermore with Brexit shrinking the social care workforce for a generation at least, even more reason to get on and deliver some fundamental change. Abject failure.
If there is a change of Govt let’s hope they’ve the strength to immediately seek cross party agreement to go back to Dilnot and largely implement what was recommended. Anyone got a better idea?
How about people look after their own families as happens as a matter of course (rich and poor) in mich of the non-western world and we don’t look to the state or a private institution to do it for us.
That is workable depending on what the needs of the individual in question are. Some people can no longer live at home due to the intense 24 hour care or supervision they need. If you are caring for a bedridden parent and they need to be changed, bathed etc and you are older or incapacitated yourself then your parent may need to be placed somewhere where they can receive a level of care that is needed.
If you are of an age where you need your own care then where are the children/grandchildren? A return to multi-generational living is the truly radical solution – free childcare for the young and loving care for the elderly/infirm. Freedom is all well and good until you can’t clean yourself.
A good enough idea where an elderly (grand) parent was a loving and caring individual. What about the uncaring and abusive? Do they have to be cared for too, or can they just be left in the gutter?
Exactly, it’s complicated.
Great response. If your parents were uncaring should you not show them care? If they were abusive towards you and are not in a situation to be so any more then should you not try to forgive? Your argument sounds like an eye for an eye.
I’m with Clare on this. It’s much, much more complicated than that, at least here in the real world.
I’m with Clare on this. It’s much, much more complicated than that, at least here in the real world.
Exactly, it’s complicated.
Great response. If your parents were uncaring should you not show them care? If they were abusive towards you and are not in a situation to be so any more then should you not try to forgive? Your argument sounds like an eye for an eye.
A good enough idea where an elderly (grand) parent was a loving and caring individual. What about the uncaring and abusive? Do they have to be cared for too, or can they just be left in the gutter?
If you are of an age where you need your own care then where are the children/grandchildren? A return to multi-generational living is the truly radical solution – free childcare for the young and loving care for the elderly/infirm. Freedom is all well and good until you can’t clean yourself.
Easier said than done however. With most families now requiring both parents to work full time simply to pay the rent (or mortgage if they’re one of the more fortunate ones), they simply don’t have the time or money to look after for family members that need full time attention.
Ignorant comment. Is that what you do?
Yes. Sorry CK for suggesting a solution. My grandmother was put into a home and I saw the way she was treated as a number for the staff – many of whom tried their best – but the point is that it was a lottery. One day she would get better care than I could have given her, the next not so. The care got worse as the years went on and she needed more help. Why do you put a difference of opinion down to ignorance?
Yes. Sorry CK for suggesting a solution. My grandmother was put into a home and I saw the way she was treated as a number for the staff – many of whom tried their best – but the point is that it was a lottery. One day she would get better care than I could have given her, the next not so. The care got worse as the years went on and she needed more help. Why do you put a difference of opinion down to ignorance?
I daresay some of this going to be more required whether we like it or not as a consequence of aging population. But caring full time for someone can require some support – even lifting, understanding pressure sores, avoiding deterioration that generates more hospital visits, etc. Don’t be to ‘rose tinted’ on this until you’ve done it and been utterly exhausted by it as it can be 24/7 relentless.
But it also it cuts across a economic requirement that we’ve mobile population able to do the jobs we need. We can already see the caring requirements are contributing to workforce shortages.
That is workable depending on what the needs of the individual in question are. Some people can no longer live at home due to the intense 24 hour care or supervision they need. If you are caring for a bedridden parent and they need to be changed, bathed etc and you are older or incapacitated yourself then your parent may need to be placed somewhere where they can receive a level of care that is needed.
Easier said than done however. With most families now requiring both parents to work full time simply to pay the rent (or mortgage if they’re one of the more fortunate ones), they simply don’t have the time or money to look after for family members that need full time attention.
Ignorant comment. Is that what you do?
I daresay some of this going to be more required whether we like it or not as a consequence of aging population. But caring full time for someone can require some support – even lifting, understanding pressure sores, avoiding deterioration that generates more hospital visits, etc. Don’t be to ‘rose tinted’ on this until you’ve done it and been utterly exhausted by it as it can be 24/7 relentless.
But it also it cuts across a economic requirement that we’ve mobile population able to do the jobs we need. We can already see the caring requirements are contributing to workforce shortages.
How about people look after their own families as happens as a matter of course (rich and poor) in mich of the non-western world and we don’t look to the state or a private institution to do it for us.
The sort of huge social policy issue it’s good to see UnHerd giving some space. Good grief this will be occupying many more lives now and in future than the latest Trans saga that we seem to get daily. And with 140k social care vacancies it also links to immigration policy.
Just to clarify though, May did not propose to fully implement Dilnot. The 2017 manifesto had different caps and little to nothing on the Dilnot recommendation general taxation had to share the load – to an estimated 0.22GDP by mid 20s. She was also blindsided by the dementia tax’ argument – which remains an issue now in that care for dementia is seen as social and not NHS care and thus means tested. She and the Tories proposed no change to that. That said she did deserve some credit for pushing something forward, but undone as much by her own side as anyone.
Tories now had 13 years, and furthermore with Brexit shrinking the social care workforce for a generation at least, even more reason to get on and deliver some fundamental change. Abject failure.
If there is a change of Govt let’s hope they’ve the strength to immediately seek cross party agreement to go back to Dilnot and largely implement what was recommended. Anyone got a better idea?