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Christopher Barclay
Christopher Barclay
10 months ago

Forza Italia was not founded to push out an established party. It was founded to replace the Christian Democrats who disbanded in 1994 due to scandals involving corruption and Mafia links. Berlusconi was not a populist outsider who forced his way into politics but a man who was part of Italy’s business establishment. He a member of the P2 Masonic lodge.
The account is an accurate reflection of the coup conducted by Merkel and the EU against Italian democracy as they also did later in Greece. Both these coups occurred before the 2016 Brexit referendum and were considered quite acceptable by Remainers.

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
10 months ago

Oh, he was a member of the P2 Masonic Lodge, well whoopee! Berlusconi was an incompetent buffoon. His so-called leadership was marred by and racked with poor judgement and decision-making, not to mention scandalous sex affairs.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago

see my post.. you are misinformed

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
9 months ago

Says you. And you are….?

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
9 months ago

Says you. And you are….?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago

see my post.. you are misinformed

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
10 months ago

Oh, he was a member of the P2 Masonic Lodge, well whoopee! Berlusconi was an incompetent buffoon. His so-called leadership was marred by and racked with poor judgement and decision-making, not to mention scandalous sex affairs.

Christopher Barclay
Christopher Barclay
10 months ago

Forza Italia was not founded to push out an established party. It was founded to replace the Christian Democrats who disbanded in 1994 due to scandals involving corruption and Mafia links. Berlusconi was not a populist outsider who forced his way into politics but a man who was part of Italy’s business establishment. He a member of the P2 Masonic lodge.
The account is an accurate reflection of the coup conducted by Merkel and the EU against Italian democracy as they also did later in Greece. Both these coups occurred before the 2016 Brexit referendum and were considered quite acceptable by Remainers.

Stephen Quilley
Stephen Quilley
10 months ago

“There were much bigger threats than Berlusconi looming out there: neoliberal globalisation, transnational corporations, free-trade agreements, and global financial institutions such as the IMF, the World Bank and the WTO”

This sounds like the left to me- now in deep cahoots with the party of Davos. Transnationalism, transhumanism, trans genderism, racist anti-racism’ – all attacks on the colour blind civic national order rooted in tacit Judeo-Christian values.

Grodley H
Grodley H
10 months ago

Global corporations, captured media, governments and NGOs simply have to orchestrate the next ‘Never Trump’, ‘Never Boris’, ‘Never Berlusconi’ movement and the modern Left will line up with them, desperate to appear to stay on the moral high ground.

Last edited 10 months ago by Grodley H
Grodley H
Grodley H
10 months ago

“I couldn’t see how an elected government being forced to step down by financial speculators could be a cause for celebration — especially for those on the Left”
The UK Left celebrated the same sort of coup against Liz Truss, oblivious to the precedent it set for ousting any future leader that planned to spend more into the economy than it took out in taxes.

Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
10 months ago
Reply to  Grodley H

Couldn’t be more right. Sunak is the first PM imposed by a foreign backed coup.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Nick Faulks

Just like William of Orange, otherwise known as William III.

Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
9 months ago

In fact, I did think of that. Whether it is a good precedent needs further thought.

Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
9 months ago

In fact, I did think of that. Whether it is a good precedent needs further thought.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
9 months ago
Reply to  Nick Faulks

Utterly ludicrous unhinged comment. We have never elected our prime ministers.

Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

So you’re saying he is not the first PM imposed by a foreign backed coup?

Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

So you’re saying he is not the first PM imposed by a foreign backed coup?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Nick Faulks

Just like William of Orange, otherwise known as William III.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
9 months ago
Reply to  Nick Faulks

Utterly ludicrous unhinged comment. We have never elected our prime ministers.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
9 months ago
Reply to  Grodley H

Absurd use of the word “coup”. Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng got it badly wrong; their whole programme was a completely tone deaf attempt to “unchain Britannia” which might have had a lot of merit but greatly increasing borrowing to do it without proper planning was poor judgement on their part. Whatever else you think of him, Sunak’s judgement proved correct. Politics can be a harsh business.

Of course Truss was a free market believer in liberal immigration policies, so it was just so amusing to see her briefly for some bizarre reason having the crown of national saviour being bestowed on her by much of the Conservative Right.

Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Truss was defenestrated because long gilt yields had, in the wake of a concerted speculative attack, hit the unprecedented level ( unless your memory goes back before 2008 ) of 4.2%. Saviour Sunak arrived, steadied the ship and now they are at 4.4%. Why doesn’t he have to go, just asking?

Grodley H
Grodley H
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

It’s not a matter of whether the Truss/Kwartang plans were wrong or right, it’s whether those plans should be overturned by a bunch of international currency speculators (i.e. inveterate gamblers). Anyone who thinks that was okay should be prepared to accept the same when it happens to a government who’s policies they support. I don’t support the Tories and never have, but it’s not a good precedent to set if you allow currency speculators to decide who runs your country. My point is that the Left lined up with them and cheered it on. If Corbyn or someone like him had come under the same sort of attack for ‘reckless spending plans’ or whatever then they would have been beside themselves.

Last edited 9 months ago by Grodley H
Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Truss was defenestrated because long gilt yields had, in the wake of a concerted speculative attack, hit the unprecedented level ( unless your memory goes back before 2008 ) of 4.2%. Saviour Sunak arrived, steadied the ship and now they are at 4.4%. Why doesn’t he have to go, just asking?

Grodley H
Grodley H
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

It’s not a matter of whether the Truss/Kwartang plans were wrong or right, it’s whether those plans should be overturned by a bunch of international currency speculators (i.e. inveterate gamblers). Anyone who thinks that was okay should be prepared to accept the same when it happens to a government who’s policies they support. I don’t support the Tories and never have, but it’s not a good precedent to set if you allow currency speculators to decide who runs your country. My point is that the Left lined up with them and cheered it on. If Corbyn or someone like him had come under the same sort of attack for ‘reckless spending plans’ or whatever then they would have been beside themselves.

Last edited 9 months ago by Grodley H
Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
10 months ago
Reply to  Grodley H

Couldn’t be more right. Sunak is the first PM imposed by a foreign backed coup.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
9 months ago
Reply to  Grodley H

Absurd use of the word “coup”. Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng got it badly wrong; their whole programme was a completely tone deaf attempt to “unchain Britannia” which might have had a lot of merit but greatly increasing borrowing to do it without proper planning was poor judgement on their part. Whatever else you think of him, Sunak’s judgement proved correct. Politics can be a harsh business.

Of course Truss was a free market believer in liberal immigration policies, so it was just so amusing to see her briefly for some bizarre reason having the crown of national saviour being bestowed on her by much of the Conservative Right.

Grodley H
Grodley H
10 months ago

Global corporations, captured media, governments and NGOs simply have to orchestrate the next ‘Never Trump’, ‘Never Boris’, ‘Never Berlusconi’ movement and the modern Left will line up with them, desperate to appear to stay on the moral high ground.

Last edited 10 months ago by Grodley H
Grodley H
Grodley H
10 months ago

“I couldn’t see how an elected government being forced to step down by financial speculators could be a cause for celebration — especially for those on the Left”
The UK Left celebrated the same sort of coup against Liz Truss, oblivious to the precedent it set for ousting any future leader that planned to spend more into the economy than it took out in taxes.

Stephen Quilley
Stephen Quilley
10 months ago

“There were much bigger threats than Berlusconi looming out there: neoliberal globalisation, transnational corporations, free-trade agreements, and global financial institutions such as the IMF, the World Bank and the WTO”

This sounds like the left to me- now in deep cahoots with the party of Davos. Transnationalism, transhumanism, trans genderism, racist anti-racism’ – all attacks on the colour blind civic national order rooted in tacit Judeo-Christian values.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago

Berlusconi was no buffoon, and the man in his shadow, his partnet Ennio Dorris was a very clever investment manager and financier, who revolutionised Italy’s mass affluent/retail asset management business via his Mediolanum empire. Berlusconi also had, albeit a ” reluctant admission” to the so called financial ruling ” salotto buono” of Italy, Mediobanca, Lazard, Agnelli’s then Holding companies , Generali and their very few close financial allies.

However, the tide in Italy was turning and not least due to US investment banks seeking to ” overthrow” this cartel and the one and only US bank in this circle, Citibank ( thanks to my Italian father there) and the left finally succeded in demolishing the Salotto buono… but putting nothing in its place.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago

Berlusconi was no buffoon, and the man in his shadow, his partnet Ennio Dorris was a very clever investment manager and financier, who revolutionised Italy’s mass affluent/retail asset management business via his Mediolanum empire. Berlusconi also had, albeit a ” reluctant admission” to the so called financial ruling ” salotto buono” of Italy, Mediobanca, Lazard, Agnelli’s then Holding companies , Generali and their very few close financial allies.

However, the tide in Italy was turning and not least due to US investment banks seeking to ” overthrow” this cartel and the one and only US bank in this circle, Citibank ( thanks to my Italian father there) and the left finally succeded in demolishing the Salotto buono… but putting nothing in its place.

Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
10 months ago

The manner of the replacement of Berlusconi by Monti was remarkably similar to that of of Truss by Sunak.

Steve Brown
Steve Brown
10 months ago
Reply to  Nick Faulks

Truss and a long list of other reckless populists (left and right) fell because of the damage inflicted by profligate macroeconomic policies. They do not have the honesty to tell their supporters that when an economy is operating close to full capacity (see UK Q3 2022) tax reductions must be paid for by reduced spending. Otherwise inflation will rise and interest rates will go through the roof. I am no fan of Sunak, but Truss was replaced because she was useless not by some sinister coup.

Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
10 months ago
Reply to  Steve Brown

The question is how she was “replaced” and by whom.

Last edited 10 months ago by Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
10 months ago
Reply to  Steve Brown

The question is how she was “replaced” and by whom.

Last edited 10 months ago by Nick Faulks
Steve Brown
Steve Brown
10 months ago
Reply to  Nick Faulks

Truss and a long list of other reckless populists (left and right) fell because of the damage inflicted by profligate macroeconomic policies. They do not have the honesty to tell their supporters that when an economy is operating close to full capacity (see UK Q3 2022) tax reductions must be paid for by reduced spending. Otherwise inflation will rise and interest rates will go through the roof. I am no fan of Sunak, but Truss was replaced because she was useless not by some sinister coup.

Nick Faulks
Nick Faulks
10 months ago

The manner of the replacement of Berlusconi by Monti was remarkably similar to that of of Truss by Sunak.

Nathan Ngumi
Nathan Ngumi
10 months ago

Silvio Berlusconi’s legacy is a mixed bag, like any other modern leader.

Nathan Ngumi
Nathan Ngumi
10 months ago

Silvio Berlusconi’s legacy is a mixed bag, like any other modern leader.

Richard Barrett
Richard Barrett
10 months ago

In the 1990s, I hated Berlusconi for propping up the Italian old regime, and for blocking what could have been a new leftist way forward for Italy. In more recent years however, he came to be seen as a threat to EU-NATO hegemony, which put him up a few points in my estimation.

Richard Barrett
Richard Barrett
10 months ago

In the 1990s, I hated Berlusconi for propping up the Italian old regime, and for blocking what could have been a new leftist way forward for Italy. In more recent years however, he came to be seen as a threat to EU-NATO hegemony, which put him up a few points in my estimation.

Arkadian X
Arkadian X
10 months ago

For a change an interesting article by this author.
Will Meloni prove to be a stateswoman or a pawn?
(To the editor: it is Romano, not Romani, Prodi)

Arkadian X
Arkadian X
10 months ago

For a change an interesting article by this author.
Will Meloni prove to be a stateswoman or a pawn?
(To the editor: it is Romano, not Romani, Prodi)

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago

Why are we forgetting that Berlusconi was a convicted criminal (tax fraud) who leveraged his position to avoid actual imprisonment ?
Still, perhaps Mr. Fazi is right to call him “Italy’s last statesman” and not some dodgy oligarch … I don’t think so !
The idea that Italy suddenly became “post-democratic” *after* a billionaire who owned half the media became Prime Minister is frankly absurd.
Isn’t it curious how much financial fraud there is amongst these leaders – Sarkozy, Berlusconi, Lagarde, Chirac, Kohl, … . And how all these countries seem to specialise in things like presidential immunity from prosecution. Not one resigned. Not one served any jail time.

Arkadian X
Arkadian X
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Absolutely, but the author’s point (zero calcare’s Doppelganger) is that
1) Berlusconi was elected (because of the flaws you mention, rather than despite them), and that
2) the opposition became simply an anti-Berlusconi without offering a real alternative (not dissimilar to the opposition in Scotland *not being* Sturgeon and the SNP).

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  Arkadian X

All true. But it certainly helps getting elected (and re-elected) if you own the media (like Berlusconi or Putin).

Arkadian X
Arkadian X
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Again, absolutely. But the issue here is that the left was/is so much in thrall of Berlusconi that even when in power could do nothing, except squabble.

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  Arkadian X

That’s just in the left’s DNA from the very start.

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  Arkadian X

That’s just in the left’s DNA from the very start.

james elliott
james elliott
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

You could add the cabal that operates the hollowed out avatar of Joe Biden to your too-short list of Berlusconi & Putin.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

And that’s where you illustrate the downside of being fundamentally against a person, rathe than being being based on policy.

Did Trump own the media? Yet he won.

Did Berlusconi and Putin control the media? Possibly, but if it was just that, they wouldn’t get re-elected. People aren’t stupid. And just controlling the media doesn’t work on its own, as the UK remainers or Hillary found.

Arkadian X
Arkadian X
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Again, absolutely. But the issue here is that the left was/is so much in thrall of Berlusconi that even when in power could do nothing, except squabble.

james elliott
james elliott
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

You could add the cabal that operates the hollowed out avatar of Joe Biden to your too-short list of Berlusconi & Putin.

Samir Iker
Samir Iker
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

And that’s where you illustrate the downside of being fundamentally against a person, rathe than being being based on policy.

Did Trump own the media? Yet he won.

Did Berlusconi and Putin control the media? Possibly, but if it was just that, they wouldn’t get re-elected. People aren’t stupid. And just controlling the media doesn’t work on its own, as the UK remainers or Hillary found.

Stephen Quilley
Stephen Quilley
10 months ago
Reply to  Arkadian X

And sturgeon only being anti Westminster Tory

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago
Reply to  Arkadian X

All true. But it certainly helps getting elected (and re-elected) if you own the media (like Berlusconi or Putin).

Stephen Quilley
Stephen Quilley
10 months ago
Reply to  Arkadian X

And sturgeon only being anti Westminster Tory

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

In some Ancient Greek states the punishment for financial mismanagement was death.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Along with many other high profile criminals Berlusconi was an enthusiastic supporter of the disgraceful Iraq War.

As a result Italy suffered its highest casualties* since its somewhat lacklustre performance in WWII.
I wonder if B had the lives of those young men on his conscience when he expired?

(* The Nasiriyah Bombing.)

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago

Going a bit off topic, I think that both the Italians and French get a very bad rap for WWII which isn’t justified by the performance of some of their soldiers in battles. The real failures were in leadership and equipment.
The Italians also did us a big favour by knowing when to throw in the towel. Not sure their heart was really in fighting the UK from the start – pre-war we were close to being on the same side.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Interestingly the Italians WWI casualties were proportionally greater than ours!
All those battles on the Isonzo.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Interestingly the Italians WWI casualties were proportionally greater than ours!
All those battles on the Isonzo.

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago

Going a bit off topic, I think that both the Italians and French get a very bad rap for WWII which isn’t justified by the performance of some of their soldiers in battles. The real failures were in leadership and equipment.
The Italians also did us a big favour by knowing when to throw in the towel. Not sure their heart was really in fighting the UK from the start – pre-war we were close to being on the same side.

Arkadian X
Arkadian X
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Absolutely, but the author’s point (zero calcare’s Doppelganger) is that
1) Berlusconi was elected (because of the flaws you mention, rather than despite them), and that
2) the opposition became simply an anti-Berlusconi without offering a real alternative (not dissimilar to the opposition in Scotland *not being* Sturgeon and the SNP).

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

In some Ancient Greek states the punishment for financial mismanagement was death.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
10 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Along with many other high profile criminals Berlusconi was an enthusiastic supporter of the disgraceful Iraq War.

As a result Italy suffered its highest casualties* since its somewhat lacklustre performance in WWII.
I wonder if B had the lives of those young men on his conscience when he expired?

(* The Nasiriyah Bombing.)

Peter B
Peter B
10 months ago

Why are we forgetting that Berlusconi was a convicted criminal (tax fraud) who leveraged his position to avoid actual imprisonment ?
Still, perhaps Mr. Fazi is right to call him “Italy’s last statesman” and not some dodgy oligarch … I don’t think so !
The idea that Italy suddenly became “post-democratic” *after* a billionaire who owned half the media became Prime Minister is frankly absurd.
Isn’t it curious how much financial fraud there is amongst these leaders – Sarkozy, Berlusconi, Lagarde, Chirac, Kohl, … . And how all these countries seem to specialise in things like presidential immunity from prosecution. Not one resigned. Not one served any jail time.

Russell Sharpe
Russell Sharpe
10 months ago

For the editor: The hyperlink at the end of the penultimate paragraph (“a point that Meloni understands all too well”) actually links to the previous hyperlink (a La Stampa article about Spanish PM Zapatero). It would be interesting to have the correct link: thanks.

Russell Sharpe
Russell Sharpe
10 months ago

For the editor: The hyperlink at the end of the penultimate paragraph (“a point that Meloni understands all too well”) actually links to the previous hyperlink (a La Stampa article about Spanish PM Zapatero). It would be interesting to have the correct link: thanks.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
10 months ago

“For everyone on the Left, and especially for those who had witnessed first-hand the violence in Genoa — including myself — the blame for those tragic events fell on one person:”
For refusing to bow to mob violence

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
10 months ago

“For everyone on the Left, and especially for those who had witnessed first-hand the violence in Genoa — including myself — the blame for those tragic events fell on one person:”
For refusing to bow to mob violence

Tony Lee
Tony Lee
10 months ago

The left are always anti something and never quite sure what they’re for.

Tony Lee
Tony Lee
10 months ago

The left are always anti something and never quite sure what they’re for.

Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
9 months ago

The simple irony of being automatically anti- any idea from some political hate figure is that you are effectively letting them decide your opinions for you.

Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
9 months ago

The simple irony of being automatically anti- any idea from some political hate figure is that you are effectively letting them decide your opinions for you.

Philip Clayton
Philip Clayton
9 months ago

I am a Remainer and I am on the left. I did not, and do not, consider what happened to Greece and Italy as in any way acceptable. Nor was I “taken in” by Berlusconi who, whatever else, paved the way for people like Johnson and Trump. I am a Remainer because the benefits of EU membership, as not just a trade body but something that offered tangible benefits to ALL it’s member populations (travel, education, employment, business etc). On top of that it has succeeded beyond imagination in ending the eternal wars and conflicts in Western states. What I detest about the EU is the way that the Parliament and Commission function at the behest of big business and finance. But, strangely, outside the EU so does Parliament. Witness Labour breaking promises every week and declaring every five minurtes their commitment to “financial responsibility” and the breaking of yet another promise. There has not been a single discernible benefit from Brexit nor will there be. Italy outside the EU would fare no better than the UK and probable even worse.As for the left as a whole their mistake has not been to be wrong about what is wrong, but to not own 98% of the media, to have no real clout on social media (despite what the right keep saying about ‘cultural Marxism” or “Woke” people running everything). I wish. Our economy is now run by financiers, unaccountable to anybody, who have gorged on the dismemberment of the state for 40 years. We are back in a rentier capitalism run and owned by people who have zero interest in anything except profit. Both Trump & Berlusconi were property developers. There is not a country in existence where property developers become rich without corruption. Or one where they have ever cared about any social consequences of their actions, such as evicting the poorest and vulnerable from their homes.
The biggest economic player in the EU Germany enforced needless austerity on the EU as though the 1930’s had never happened. (As did that scumbag Osborne in the UK). When Mario Monti was installed to lead a “technical government” the word technical was used to imply a ‘neutral’ government, one with no ‘ideology’. One of the worst ideas is that somehow ‘technical’ people are not real people, they act ‘objectively’. They are ‘scientific’. The biggest lie of all is that economics is ‘scientific’. All economic arguments are underpinned by ethical considerations or aims that have ethical impacts. Despite what the EU did I find it impossible to feel the slightest sympathy for Berlusconi. He is no loss to the world. An epitath for many of out current leaders and politicians across the globe.

Grodley H
Grodley H
9 months ago
Reply to  Philip Clayton

Germany didn’t force austerity on the EU, they just insisted that member states should all comply with EU rules, such as Article 126 of TFEU. What’s the point in treaty rules if no-one sticks to them?
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX%3A12008E126
Article 126 makes low government spending a requirement of EU membership (why do you think George Osborne is such a big fan?).
Here’s the European Commission (not Germany or George Osborne) back in 2006, demanding that Gordon Brown apply some needless austerity or else they would begin an ‘excessive deficit procedure’ against the UK…
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/jan/11/economy.uk
Followed by a ‘threat’ (the Guardian’s term) in 2008…
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/apr/29/economics.eu

Last edited 9 months ago by Grodley H
Grodley H
Grodley H
9 months ago
Reply to  Philip Clayton

Germany didn’t force austerity on the EU, they just insisted that member states should all comply with EU rules, such as Article 126 of TFEU. What’s the point in treaty rules if no-one sticks to them?
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX%3A12008E126
Article 126 makes low government spending a requirement of EU membership (why do you think George Osborne is such a big fan?).
Here’s the European Commission (not Germany or George Osborne) back in 2006, demanding that Gordon Brown apply some needless austerity or else they would begin an ‘excessive deficit procedure’ against the UK…
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/jan/11/economy.uk
Followed by a ‘threat’ (the Guardian’s term) in 2008…
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/apr/29/economics.eu

Last edited 9 months ago by Grodley H
Philip Clayton
Philip Clayton
9 months ago

I am a Remainer and I am on the left. I did not, and do not, consider what happened to Greece and Italy as in any way acceptable. Nor was I “taken in” by Berlusconi who, whatever else, paved the way for people like Johnson and Trump. I am a Remainer because the benefits of EU membership, as not just a trade body but something that offered tangible benefits to ALL it’s member populations (travel, education, employment, business etc). On top of that it has succeeded beyond imagination in ending the eternal wars and conflicts in Western states. What I detest about the EU is the way that the Parliament and Commission function at the behest of big business and finance. But, strangely, outside the EU so does Parliament. Witness Labour breaking promises every week and declaring every five minurtes their commitment to “financial responsibility” and the breaking of yet another promise. There has not been a single discernible benefit from Brexit nor will there be. Italy outside the EU would fare no better than the UK and probable even worse.As for the left as a whole their mistake has not been to be wrong about what is wrong, but to not own 98% of the media, to have no real clout on social media (despite what the right keep saying about ‘cultural Marxism” or “Woke” people running everything). I wish. Our economy is now run by financiers, unaccountable to anybody, who have gorged on the dismemberment of the state for 40 years. We are back in a rentier capitalism run and owned by people who have zero interest in anything except profit. Both Trump & Berlusconi were property developers. There is not a country in existence where property developers become rich without corruption. Or one where they have ever cared about any social consequences of their actions, such as evicting the poorest and vulnerable from their homes.
The biggest economic player in the EU Germany enforced needless austerity on the EU as though the 1930’s had never happened. (As did that scumbag Osborne in the UK). When Mario Monti was installed to lead a “technical government” the word technical was used to imply a ‘neutral’ government, one with no ‘ideology’. One of the worst ideas is that somehow ‘technical’ people are not real people, they act ‘objectively’. They are ‘scientific’. The biggest lie of all is that economics is ‘scientific’. All economic arguments are underpinned by ethical considerations or aims that have ethical impacts. Despite what the EU did I find it impossible to feel the slightest sympathy for Berlusconi. He is no loss to the world. An epitath for many of out current leaders and politicians across the globe.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
9 months ago

What a load of utter bilge! Many on the extreme Left and Right seem to have become united in the belief that elected governments can and should be able to do anything they want and everything is a matter of political will. No they can’t; they have to live in the, you know, real world.

If you borrow vast sums of money, for example, regardless of whether you call this “investment” you need to pay back the debts. Recall the UK going to the IMF in 1976?

Ok, do don’t do that, just print money, that obviously can’t have any adverse consequences.

South Africa has been following utterly disastrous redistributionist policies for years, threatening to lead to a complete collapse. All our radical critics of “neoliberalism” yadda yadda can offer is to do much the same. Europe has further to fall, that’s all.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
9 months ago

What a load of utter bilge! Many on the extreme Left and Right seem to have become united in the belief that elected governments can and should be able to do anything they want and everything is a matter of political will. No they can’t; they have to live in the, you know, real world.

If you borrow vast sums of money, for example, regardless of whether you call this “investment” you need to pay back the debts. Recall the UK going to the IMF in 1976?

Ok, do don’t do that, just print money, that obviously can’t have any adverse consequences.

South Africa has been following utterly disastrous redistributionist policies for years, threatening to lead to a complete collapse. All our radical critics of “neoliberalism” yadda yadda can offer is to do much the same. Europe has further to fall, that’s all.

Julian Moruzzi
Julian Moruzzi
9 months ago

RIP to the John the Baptist of vulgar sex-mad billionaires who go into politics.

Emre S
Emre S
9 months ago

I find the problem with the lefties is that they’re fools, not that they don’t mean well. A fool when given power tends to be deceived by more devious centres of power and therein lies the problem with left-wing movements.
Given the above, I find this is the more insightful article about Berlusconi seeing another one from Harrington also came out. Singling out Berlusconi or vices of other powerful men by the left as the main problem we have is short-sighted, and it takes effort to understand why.

Emre S
Emre S
9 months ago

I find the problem with the lefties is that they’re fools, not that they don’t mean well. A fool when given power tends to be deceived by more devious centres of power and therein lies the problem with left-wing movements.
Given the above, I find this is the more insightful article about Berlusconi seeing another one from Harrington also came out. Singling out Berlusconi or vices of other powerful men by the left as the main problem we have is short-sighted, and it takes effort to understand why.

David Giles
David Giles
9 months ago

But this is my problem with Thomas Fazi and his like:
He stands against technocracies subverting democratic government. He is appalled by a supposedly independent and apolitical central bank blackmailing an elected prime minister outbox office. Yet when Brexit is put before him, he reaches for the hanky and is utterly disgusted.

David Giles
David Giles
9 months ago

But this is my problem with Thomas Fazi and his like:
He stands against technocracies subverting democratic government. He is appalled by a supposedly independent and apolitical central bank blackmailing an elected prime minister outbox office. Yet when Brexit is put before him, he reaches for the hanky and is utterly disgusted.