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Bronwen Saunders
Bronwen Saunders
8 months ago

A long time ago, back in the (pre-Tinder) days when Prospect had a problem page, it once published a letter from a distraught reader who had just met the man of her dreams. She went into raptures over how wonderful he was, how handsome, how charming, what a great cook, what a great sense of humour and how much they enjoyed each other’s company. So what was her problem? Apparently he was also “right wing” and “might even vote Tory”. 
The agony aunt, amazingly, agreed that this was a stain on his character that the letter-writer would have to correct or work around if their relationship was to survive. I was so appalled by this that I read the letter to some of my friends and was shocked all over again to discover that some of them actually seemed to empathise with the woman’s predicament: What was she to do? They all seemed blind to the arrogance on display here: the blithe – and blind – assumption by both the letter-writer and the agony aunt that they, of course, held all the right views and had nothing to learn from anybody else, least of all a Tory. What hubris! My brief flirt with Prospect had ended. And my disenchantment with the left had begun. 

RM Parker
RM Parker
8 months ago

Yes, my break with the political left was similar in many ways. It really came down to my inability to keep swallowing two things: the lack of forgiveness for mistakes (or daring to voice nuanced disagreement) and the rebarbative but persistent trait of caricaturing anyone with whom one disagreed.
Political disagreement becomes a mark of deep moral turpitude for that crowd and I finally couldn’t take any more doublethink and witch hunting.

Last edited 8 months ago by RM Parker
RM Parker
RM Parker
8 months ago

Yes, my break with the political left was similar in many ways. It really came down to my inability to keep swallowing two things: the lack of forgiveness for mistakes (or daring to voice nuanced disagreement) and the rebarbative but persistent trait of caricaturing anyone with whom one disagreed.
Political disagreement becomes a mark of deep moral turpitude for that crowd and I finally couldn’t take any more doublethink and witch hunting.

Last edited 8 months ago by RM Parker
Bronwen Saunders
Bronwen Saunders
8 months ago

A long time ago, back in the (pre-Tinder) days when Prospect had a problem page, it once published a letter from a distraught reader who had just met the man of her dreams. She went into raptures over how wonderful he was, how handsome, how charming, what a great cook, what a great sense of humour and how much they enjoyed each other’s company. So what was her problem? Apparently he was also “right wing” and “might even vote Tory”. 
The agony aunt, amazingly, agreed that this was a stain on his character that the letter-writer would have to correct or work around if their relationship was to survive. I was so appalled by this that I read the letter to some of my friends and was shocked all over again to discover that some of them actually seemed to empathise with the woman’s predicament: What was she to do? They all seemed blind to the arrogance on display here: the blithe – and blind – assumption by both the letter-writer and the agony aunt that they, of course, held all the right views and had nothing to learn from anybody else, least of all a Tory. What hubris! My brief flirt with Prospect had ended. And my disenchantment with the left had begun. 

Mark Phillips
Mark Phillips
8 months ago

I am so glad that I am old now. I was a soldier when I met my wife and she was a dyed in the wool hippy. We argued like cat and dog, became friends and argued some more. Eventually we found that the things that united us were of greater importance than the ones that separated us. I had fourteen years of very great happiness until she died aged 47 of cancer. There has never been anyone else. Had we been young today then we would have missed a wonderful life. I feel very sorry for the poor fools who swipe (I can’t remember if it’s right or left; and don’t care) because they don’t like red hair or something equally idiotic and closed minded. They could be missing out on the ride of a lifetime. Pure euphoria (after the arguing).

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
8 months ago
Reply to  Mark Phillips

What an absolutely splendid eulogy, I thank you.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
8 months ago
Reply to  Mark Phillips

Memories of my late wife after some 25 years, she quite a bit younger, 20 years or so. She was a resurrected hippie, me another old troop, now at 83. She was an executive when I met her but becoming fully burned out on that treadmill; I an engineer working in her business area. But we enjoyed the pleasures of life; she became a teacher of special needs kids. We rarely debated politics agreeing to disagree. Our framework was how can we support each other in whatever we chose to do. She went too soon, alas but I still value her counsel.
A chance meeting resulted in a enduring story. Impossible to pre-judge life. I was struck by her love of others. And lucky to have been able to share with her.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
8 months ago
Reply to  Mark Phillips

What an absolutely splendid eulogy, I thank you.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
8 months ago
Reply to  Mark Phillips

Memories of my late wife after some 25 years, she quite a bit younger, 20 years or so. She was a resurrected hippie, me another old troop, now at 83. She was an executive when I met her but becoming fully burned out on that treadmill; I an engineer working in her business area. But we enjoyed the pleasures of life; she became a teacher of special needs kids. We rarely debated politics agreeing to disagree. Our framework was how can we support each other in whatever we chose to do. She went too soon, alas but I still value her counsel.
A chance meeting resulted in a enduring story. Impossible to pre-judge life. I was struck by her love of others. And lucky to have been able to share with her.

Mark Phillips
Mark Phillips
8 months ago

I am so glad that I am old now. I was a soldier when I met my wife and she was a dyed in the wool hippy. We argued like cat and dog, became friends and argued some more. Eventually we found that the things that united us were of greater importance than the ones that separated us. I had fourteen years of very great happiness until she died aged 47 of cancer. There has never been anyone else. Had we been young today then we would have missed a wonderful life. I feel very sorry for the poor fools who swipe (I can’t remember if it’s right or left; and don’t care) because they don’t like red hair or something equally idiotic and closed minded. They could be missing out on the ride of a lifetime. Pure euphoria (after the arguing).

Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
8 months ago

My late wife and I were together for 42 years and disagreed about almost everything. We would never have even met through a tickbox exercise.
We did share an irritation with political obsessives.
Then, as the author notes, the mere fact that you’re not obsessed with politics in minute detail is a red flag to some folk these days – almost always leftists.

Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
8 months ago

My late wife and I were together for 42 years and disagreed about almost everything. We would never have even met through a tickbox exercise.
We did share an irritation with political obsessives.
Then, as the author notes, the mere fact that you’re not obsessed with politics in minute detail is a red flag to some folk these days – almost always leftists.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
8 months ago

Apparently, but unsurprisingly, the character Jess is unaware that the KKK, lynchings, segregation, were Democrat criminality. The Republican Party was formed to put a stop to it. What a revolting book. I feel bad for Josh that he has to suffer being in it.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
8 months ago

Apparently, but unsurprisingly, the character Jess is unaware that the KKK, lynchings, segregation, were Democrat criminality. The Republican Party was formed to put a stop to it. What a revolting book. I feel bad for Josh that he has to suffer being in it.

Matt M
Matt M
8 months ago

I’m a hang’em, flog ‘em John Bull Tory of the Old School but Mrs M’s opinions make me look like a mincing metropolitan! Whether it is the secret of a happy marriage, I don’t know but it certainly gives you something to talk to each other about: “have you seen what Meghan and Harry have done now?”

Matt M
Matt M
8 months ago

I’m a hang’em, flog ‘em John Bull Tory of the Old School but Mrs M’s opinions make me look like a mincing metropolitan! Whether it is the secret of a happy marriage, I don’t know but it certainly gives you something to talk to each other about: “have you seen what Meghan and Harry have done now?”

Albert McGloan
Albert McGloan
8 months ago

Claim:”a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians”.
Fact check by PolitiFact : No lies detected.

laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
8 months ago
Reply to  Albert McGloan

Question: They say they “train” AI programs using the internet as a data base. So doesn’t that include quotes like this?
Answer: We’re in a mess of trouble.

Last edited 8 months ago by laurence scaduto
Thomas Wagner
Thomas Wagner
8 months ago

Apparently, if no appropriate quotes are available, AI makes them up. Then, if you ask where AI got it, it makes up a source. It’s turtles all the way down.

B Davis
B Davis
8 months ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

Turtles, indeed, all the way down.
But what difference does it really make? We all do it, of course. We all appreciate the pithy quote to end-mark a small rant or cogent observation, as though, by quoting, we somehow validate the truth of what we just said (especially if the quote is from some acknowledged ‘cogent’ source).
But really…aren’t we all turtles, in that sense? My ‘proclamation’ no better, no worse, no more or less validating than, say, a C.S. Lewis quote…or a bit of Wordsworth….or Dylan Thomas….or Trent Reznor, for that matter?
So why not an AI generated fake quote? (“a rose by any other name!”)
As ‘Stanley Edwards’ put it in his book, “Important Eternal Truths’, “Quotes are like you know what — everyone has one!”

B Davis
B Davis
8 months ago
Reply to  Thomas Wagner

Turtles, indeed, all the way down.
But what difference does it really make? We all do it, of course. We all appreciate the pithy quote to end-mark a small rant or cogent observation, as though, by quoting, we somehow validate the truth of what we just said (especially if the quote is from some acknowledged ‘cogent’ source).
But really…aren’t we all turtles, in that sense? My ‘proclamation’ no better, no worse, no more or less validating than, say, a C.S. Lewis quote…or a bit of Wordsworth….or Dylan Thomas….or Trent Reznor, for that matter?
So why not an AI generated fake quote? (“a rose by any other name!”)
As ‘Stanley Edwards’ put it in his book, “Important Eternal Truths’, “Quotes are like you know what — everyone has one!”

Thomas Wagner
Thomas Wagner
8 months ago

Apparently, if no appropriate quotes are available, AI makes them up. Then, if you ask where AI got it, it makes up a source. It’s turtles all the way down.

laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
8 months ago
Reply to  Albert McGloan

Question: They say they “train” AI programs using the internet as a data base. So doesn’t that include quotes like this?
Answer: We’re in a mess of trouble.

Last edited 8 months ago by laurence scaduto
Albert McGloan
Albert McGloan
8 months ago

Claim:”a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians”.
Fact check by PolitiFact : No lies detected.

Thomas Wagner
Thomas Wagner
8 months ago

I am a rock-ribbed Republican. My wife is a flag-carrying Democrat. We will celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary in August. Res ipsa loquitur.

Thomas Wagner
Thomas Wagner
8 months ago

I am a rock-ribbed Republican. My wife is a flag-carrying Democrat. We will celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary in August. Res ipsa loquitur.

harry storm
harry storm
8 months ago

Kat you have a gift for writing. Love your columns.

harry storm
harry storm
8 months ago

Kat you have a gift for writing. Love your columns.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
8 months ago

The human gene pool must be suffering some kind of diminishment by the current idiocies surrounding dating apps. Us guys might like to think otherwise, but in the main it’s the females of the species that do the deciding when it comes to potential mates, and a lot of the most vital clues (such as natural body odour, which plays a role in the mixing of genes determining the future susceptibility of offspring to disease) don’t get picked up until very close encounters.

Mark Phillips
Mark Phillips
8 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Old saying; A man chases a woman until she catches him.

Mark Phillips
Mark Phillips
8 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Old saying; A man chases a woman until she catches him.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
8 months ago

The human gene pool must be suffering some kind of diminishment by the current idiocies surrounding dating apps. Us guys might like to think otherwise, but in the main it’s the females of the species that do the deciding when it comes to potential mates, and a lot of the most vital clues (such as natural body odour, which plays a role in the mixing of genes determining the future susceptibility of offspring to disease) don’t get picked up until very close encounters.

polidori redux
polidori redux
8 months ago

Humane essay.
“In a world where love makes fools of us all” Says it all really.

Ben Shipley
Ben Shipley
8 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

And thank god that it does.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
8 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Not sadly for the author of that quote.

Ben Shipley
Ben Shipley
8 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

And thank god that it does.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
8 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Not sadly for the author of that quote.

polidori redux
polidori redux
8 months ago

Humane essay.
“In a world where love makes fools of us all” Says it all really.

Ben Shipley
Ben Shipley
8 months ago

In 32 years, my wife and I have never agreed on anything, much less politics (she’s the rabid right winger), but we’ve also never run out of things to talk about. She never fails to remind that she married me strictly for the sex. Compared to that, the rest is all clutter.

Ben Shipley
Ben Shipley
8 months ago

In 32 years, my wife and I have never agreed on anything, much less politics (she’s the rabid right winger), but we’ve also never run out of things to talk about. She never fails to remind that she married me strictly for the sex. Compared to that, the rest is all clutter.

T Bone
T Bone
8 months ago

I fully support Progressives segregating themselves from Conservatives. In fact, the more they segregate on political lines, the more clear the distinction becomes.

It really presents an opportunity for progressives to showcase Corporate Communalism as the New Enlightenment.

Just look at the beautiful city of Portland, Oregon which has been blessed with the value-added advantages of the Progressive Enlightenment.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
8 months ago
Reply to  T Bone

As a consolation, the trend is self-destructing by lack of reproduction. Perhaps why the young must become infected early. But it seems the Gen-Z are learning the hard way and are now questioning things.

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
8 months ago
Reply to  T Bone

As a consolation, the trend is self-destructing by lack of reproduction. Perhaps why the young must become infected early. But it seems the Gen-Z are learning the hard way and are now questioning things.

T Bone
T Bone
8 months ago

I fully support Progressives segregating themselves from Conservatives. In fact, the more they segregate on political lines, the more clear the distinction becomes.

It really presents an opportunity for progressives to showcase Corporate Communalism as the New Enlightenment.

Just look at the beautiful city of Portland, Oregon which has been blessed with the value-added advantages of the Progressive Enlightenment.

harry storm
harry storm
8 months ago

I guess the author of that idiotic book never heard of Mary Matalin (Republican strategist) and James Carville (Democratic strategist). They’ve been married now for 30 years (just like my wife and me, and we have entirely different interests).

Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
8 months ago
Reply to  harry storm

Hat’s off to Matalin. Carville is such a snake – he’d be hard to take. There has to be another angle to him to make it worth it : )

Last edited 8 months ago by Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
Cathy Carron
8 months ago
Reply to  harry storm

Hat’s off to Matalin. Carville is such a snake – he’d be hard to take. There has to be another angle to him to make it worth it : )

Last edited 8 months ago by Cathy Carron
harry storm
harry storm
8 months ago

I guess the author of that idiotic book never heard of Mary Matalin (Republican strategist) and James Carville (Democratic strategist). They’ve been married now for 30 years (just like my wife and me, and we have entirely different interests).

SIMON WOLF
SIMON WOLF
8 months ago

Heard a sycophantic interview last week on Radio 4 with Cecilia where none of the interesting points in the article were raised and the BBC interviewee could barely disguise her identification with Jess

SIMON WOLF
SIMON WOLF
8 months ago

Heard a sycophantic interview last week on Radio 4 with Cecilia where none of the interesting points in the article were raised and the BBC interviewee could barely disguise her identification with Jess

B Davis
B Davis
8 months ago

You sit there in your heartache….Waiting on some beautiful boy to… To save you from your old ways….You play forgiveness…Watch it now, here he comes…He doesn’t look a thing like Jesus…But he talks like a gentlemen…Like you imagined when you were young…
When we were young…
And when we were young we wanted to date a cheerleader…or the HS Quarterback….or maybe the point guard on the BBall Team (everybody loves Billy!)….or maybe Suzie, with her shoulder-length blonde hair and sparkling blue eyes? And when we were young, we wanted to be with the girl with the windblown, red cape who always had a book….or the one with the purple hair who always struck a pose…or maybe the long, cool woman in a black dress….or or or.
And when we were young we thought in little boxes (on the hillside). That’s really all we saw: those boxes, those checkmarks, and the allure of the safely known & popularly categorized: did she look like Candace Bergen in Carnal Knowledge….as fine as Faye Dunaway as Bonnie…as hot as Hot Lips…as elegant as Bisset in The Deep (does she wear wet t-shirts?)… Did anyone look as cool as Steve McQueen (does he at least have a motorcycle??)
But hopefully we grow-up, at least a bit. And we stop seeing boxes…and we look past the stereotypes…and we throw-away those childish ‘red flags’ and ‘showstoppers’ and ‘never-ever-would-I’ sorting algorithms and begin to see the person beneath the mask, behind the pose…and maybe we even throw away our own mask.
Or…maybe we never grow-up. And we’re always looking to the algorithm to make our perfect life that much more perfect with a perfect partner who does perfect things and thinks JUST LIKE ME in exceedingly perfect ways: he’s passionate about the planet; he thinks dogs are just like people; we both want quartz on our kitchen countertops and an accent wall in our primary (not master!) bedroom; and we both always eat organic and gluten free….we love to binge watch Netflix TV!
God save us.
God save us from the life-sorting programs which promise sparks of joy; God save us from the Experts who always know best what’s best for us. And God give us the unexpected…the heart’s surge…the palm’s sweat….the secret smile…the softest kiss. God give us the ability to love..and to be loved…not for the algorithm checked for for who we truly are.

B Davis
B Davis
8 months ago

You sit there in your heartache….Waiting on some beautiful boy to… To save you from your old ways….You play forgiveness…Watch it now, here he comes…He doesn’t look a thing like Jesus…But he talks like a gentlemen…Like you imagined when you were young…
When we were young…
And when we were young we wanted to date a cheerleader…or the HS Quarterback….or maybe the point guard on the BBall Team (everybody loves Billy!)….or maybe Suzie, with her shoulder-length blonde hair and sparkling blue eyes? And when we were young, we wanted to be with the girl with the windblown, red cape who always had a book….or the one with the purple hair who always struck a pose…or maybe the long, cool woman in a black dress….or or or.
And when we were young we thought in little boxes (on the hillside). That’s really all we saw: those boxes, those checkmarks, and the allure of the safely known & popularly categorized: did she look like Candace Bergen in Carnal Knowledge….as fine as Faye Dunaway as Bonnie…as hot as Hot Lips…as elegant as Bisset in The Deep (does she wear wet t-shirts?)… Did anyone look as cool as Steve McQueen (does he at least have a motorcycle??)
But hopefully we grow-up, at least a bit. And we stop seeing boxes…and we look past the stereotypes…and we throw-away those childish ‘red flags’ and ‘showstoppers’ and ‘never-ever-would-I’ sorting algorithms and begin to see the person beneath the mask, behind the pose…and maybe we even throw away our own mask.
Or…maybe we never grow-up. And we’re always looking to the algorithm to make our perfect life that much more perfect with a perfect partner who does perfect things and thinks JUST LIKE ME in exceedingly perfect ways: he’s passionate about the planet; he thinks dogs are just like people; we both want quartz on our kitchen countertops and an accent wall in our primary (not master!) bedroom; and we both always eat organic and gluten free….we love to binge watch Netflix TV!
God save us.
God save us from the life-sorting programs which promise sparks of joy; God save us from the Experts who always know best what’s best for us. And God give us the unexpected…the heart’s surge…the palm’s sweat….the secret smile…the softest kiss. God give us the ability to love..and to be loved…not for the algorithm checked for for who we truly are.

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
8 months ago

Hmm. Goodreads says that Josh is “preppy.” But is he “fratty?”

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
8 months ago

Hmm. Goodreads says that Josh is “preppy.” But is he “fratty?”

Ralph Faris
Ralph Faris
7 months ago

I do enjoy reading Kat Rosenfield’s writing. In this she rightly criticizes those angry progressives for their carte blanche condemnation of the “other”— those who don’t accept the political gospel of the authoritarian left. But isn’t the reality of the lives of those who condemn men and women for their political views quite different from what they claim. Women say they would never date anyone who voted for Trump or who applauded the Supreme Court’s decision about abortion, but isn’t it the case based on the study that Kat cited that the number of those who are happy in hetero-political relationships and marriages rises to the level of 47 percent? Apparently some progressives virtue signal when with their allies but act to invite relations with those who aside from what they view as repugnant political views are otherwise very fine partners, husbands and wives. Say one thing do another. No?

Last edited 7 months ago by Ralph Faris