One gets the impression from western liberal left types that because they opposed apartheid and they supported the ANC in the 70s and 80s that the ANC ought to support western left-liberalism. As usual, the left-liberals suffer narcissistic delusions.
The ANC were always anti-western, and it comes as no surprise to me at least that they are wary of abandoning links with Russia and China despite the supposed shock of western liberals. There was massive corruption under Mandela too so can we stop the pretence of jim being some kind of saint too?
Indeed, it’s now beyond doubt that the ANC is a thoroughly corrupt organisation (which eventually guarantees incompetent government). And that is part of Mandela’s legacy. Not to diminish what he achieved – no one can be exceptional at everything.
We must still hope for the best for South Africa. A country with fantastic potential if properly managed and run. But plan for the worst. Which seems a far more likely outcome. Perhaps the corruption isn’t quite so embedded at every level that change through elections is no longer possible.
What few understand is that there was never such a thing as “South Africa” in the sense that most understand the concept of Nation State to mean or represent. Rather, there were only ever “South Africas” – plural – embedded within horizontal (regional tribal/ethnic/demographic/micro-economic), vertical (class/race/cultural/ideological) and narrative-driven (unshared origins/histories) differences that are finally becoming visible to all. As they were always going to do. Which SA one wishes – or hopes – to believe in or subscribe to is therefore just a derivative of ones personal alignment with a preferred collage of these underlying drivers.
So observe closely over the next 3-5 years. Widely read and historically literate realists will discern that SA’s past and its now certain fate represents fractal of what is playing out in many parts of the world – and in the ever more rapidly decaying West in particular.
Sure, we have rampant corruption and spiraling external debt. Heck, probably a colour revolution or 2 thrown in as well just for “spice”; we know the playbook! Most of the causes endogenous of course; many of them incubated and finagled from abroad. None of this is new or unique, but the SA version comes with…uniquely local…dynamics.
But the point is that, whatever Brussels (or it’s little UK-spinoff) might think, SA’s future ultimately lies in greater alignment with a new multipolar world led by BRICS, the EAEU and the SCO. The road ahead is fraught, but aside from the deep corruption and internecine jockeying for power here, history has taught that Africa’s problems can only be solved by locally developed solutions, however long that may take. That nothing sustainable has emerged thus far is as damning of our long-time colonial overlords and their now tired and (finally!) increasingly widely rejected “divide and rule” playbook as it is of our own unforced errors and opportunities missed. But onwards we must. And will.
So bring on Russia and China, we assert. The West had it’s shot at ruling us for 300 years and blew it: again, and again, and again. And yet now, drowning in your own debt-traps, your social cohesion unravelling widely and with your vaunted “institutions” either fully captured or rotting, you still dare lecture us on the “risks” of even considering a different path.
Please.
Nothing incoherent there, but I see you miss the nuance and so let me clarify: These states have a different playbook to the proselytizing West. Oh sure, they extract – just like everyone else – but history shows they tend to let locals get on with their affairs.
There. Fixed it for you.
The world is too interconnected for anyone to isolate, nor should they. But it is too diverse for anyone to rule and/or homogenize to suit transnational corporations and self serving ideologies. Like the West has done – and does. The facts are in: “Liberal democracy” has become little more than a stalking horse.
Nothing incoherent there, but I see you miss the nuance and so let me clarify: These states have a different playbook to the proselytizing West. Oh sure, they extract – just like everyone else – but history shows they tend to let locals get on with their affairs.
There. Fixed it for you.
The world is too interconnected for anyone to isolate, nor should they. But it is too diverse for anyone to rule and/or homogenize to suit transnational corporations and self serving ideologies. Like the West has done – and does. The facts are in: “Liberal democracy” has become little more than a stalking horse.
All of which assumes the ANC and its military wing EFF actually gives a damn about the ‘country’ = which they don’t. Greed for power, influence and material gain is all ‘they’ care about. To hell with the rest.
I don’t deny that for a moment. As it happens I am familiar with much of the back-room dealings, not only in SA but in the surrounding states. Would it surprise you to learn that it is – mainly western – foreign NGO/donor and corporate “funding” props up most of these pungent regimes and oligarchies?
Teasing out how much of Africa/South America/Middle Eastern corruption and instability was truly “home grown” versus foreign-instigated will be clearer to historians a generation or 2 from now.
For what it’s worth, I have been fortunate enough to criss-cross the globe and am invested in businesses outside of Africa. I could leave anytime but choose to stay, and we actually employ many more people than need or commercial prudence dictate. Despite its many foibles, living in Africa is a conscious choice – the choice engage in true, human problem solving as opposed to succumbing to the creeping existential torpor of the “civilised” West.
It’s not for everyone, of course. But most of us are trying. And who knows? We might even get somewhere one day once the cynically imposed colonialist borders are finally redrawn and leaders are encouraged (or allowed) to serve their voters rather than foreign expediency.
I’ll be long gone by then. But the souls of “Gobal South” will have their say, and take their rightful place, in the end. Despite the West.
Very correct. Anyone from the global South as me would agree with you. The problem is that the divide between the West and the non West is getting stronger by the day for the simple reason that most in the West are still stuck in an age frozen in the last century….while we have moved on.
Very correct. Anyone from the global South as me would agree with you. The problem is that the divide between the West and the non West is getting stronger by the day for the simple reason that most in the West are still stuck in an age frozen in the last century….while we have moved on.
I don’t deny that for a moment. As it happens I am familiar with much of the back-room dealings, not only in SA but in the surrounding states. Would it surprise you to learn that it is – mainly western – foreign NGO/donor and corporate “funding” props up most of these pungent regimes and oligarchies?
Teasing out how much of Africa/South America/Middle Eastern corruption and instability was truly “home grown” versus foreign-instigated will be clearer to historians a generation or 2 from now.
For what it’s worth, I have been fortunate enough to criss-cross the globe and am invested in businesses outside of Africa. I could leave anytime but choose to stay, and we actually employ many more people than need or commercial prudence dictate. Despite its many foibles, living in Africa is a conscious choice – the choice engage in true, human problem solving as opposed to succumbing to the creeping existential torpor of the “civilised” West.
It’s not for everyone, of course. But most of us are trying. And who knows? We might even get somewhere one day once the cynically imposed colonialist borders are finally redrawn and leaders are encouraged (or allowed) to serve their voters rather than foreign expediency.
I’ll be long gone by then. But the souls of “Gobal South” will have their say, and take their rightful place, in the end. Despite the West.
No system is perfect for sure and none has lasted for more than a couple of centuries….ever. However, you are certainly entitled to believe that the proven horrors of communism will suddenly reverse its playbook and offer hope and freedom for all.
Nice try, but don’t put words in my mouth. I’m as capitalist as they come (refer my reply to Webb for a bio). Looking past your straw man, surely you must at least be even peripherally aware of the tectonic shifts underway in the West towards Orwellian/Huxleyan panopticon dystopia – now seemingly irreversible – while bureaucratic overreach and transnational corporations feed off an ever-rising tide of poverty and nihilism generated by ballooning debt, fiscal excess and political gerrymandering?
Come on Mr Trees. “They” are not even hiding it anymore: your future is universal basic income backed by “Modern Monetary Theory”. Look at the welfare/transfer payment burden. You call that capitalism? Luckily UnHerd pages aren’t made of glass because, man, there’s no shortage of rock thorwers here.
Nice try, but don’t put words in my mouth. I’m as capitalist as they come (refer my reply to Webb for a bio). Looking past your straw man, surely you must at least be even peripherally aware of the tectonic shifts underway in the West towards Orwellian/Huxleyan panopticon dystopia – now seemingly irreversible – while bureaucratic overreach and transnational corporations feed off an ever-rising tide of poverty and nihilism generated by ballooning debt, fiscal excess and political gerrymandering?
Come on Mr Trees. “They” are not even hiding it anymore: your future is universal basic income backed by “Modern Monetary Theory”. Look at the welfare/transfer payment burden. You call that capitalism? Luckily UnHerd pages aren’t made of glass because, man, there’s no shortage of rock thorwers here.
All of which assumes the ANC and its military wing EFF actually gives a damn about the ‘country’ = which they don’t. Greed for power, influence and material gain is all ‘they’ care about. To hell with the rest.
No system is perfect for sure and none has lasted for more than a couple of centuries….ever. However, you are certainly entitled to believe that the proven horrors of communism will suddenly reverse its playbook and offer hope and freedom for all.
Indeed, it’s now beyond doubt that the ANC is a thoroughly corrupt organisation (which eventually guarantees incompetent government). And that is part of Mandela’s legacy. Not to diminish what he achieved – no one can be exceptional at everything.
We must still hope for the best for South Africa. A country with fantastic potential if properly managed and run. But plan for the worst. Which seems a far more likely outcome. Perhaps the corruption isn’t quite so embedded at every level that change through elections is no longer possible.
What few understand is that there was never such a thing as “South Africa” in the sense that most understand the concept of Nation State to mean or represent. Rather, there were only ever “South Africas” – plural – embedded within horizontal (regional tribal/ethnic/demographic/micro-economic), vertical (class/race/cultural/ideological) and narrative-driven (unshared origins/histories) differences that are finally becoming visible to all. As they were always going to do. Which SA one wishes – or hopes – to believe in or subscribe to is therefore just a derivative of ones personal alignment with a preferred collage of these underlying drivers.
So observe closely over the next 3-5 years. Widely read and historically literate realists will discern that SA’s past and its now certain fate represents fractal of what is playing out in many parts of the world – and in the ever more rapidly decaying West in particular.
Sure, we have rampant corruption and spiraling external debt. Heck, probably a colour revolution or 2 thrown in as well just for “spice”; we know the playbook! Most of the causes endogenous of course; many of them incubated and finagled from abroad. None of this is new or unique, but the SA version comes with…uniquely local…dynamics.
But the point is that, whatever Brussels (or it’s little UK-spinoff) might think, SA’s future ultimately lies in greater alignment with a new multipolar world led by BRICS, the EAEU and the SCO. The road ahead is fraught, but aside from the deep corruption and internecine jockeying for power here, history has taught that Africa’s problems can only be solved by locally developed solutions, however long that may take. That nothing sustainable has emerged thus far is as damning of our long-time colonial overlords and their now tired and (finally!) increasingly widely rejected “divide and rule” playbook as it is of our own unforced errors and opportunities missed. But onwards we must. And will.
So bring on Russia and China, we assert. The West had it’s shot at ruling us for 300 years and blew it: again, and again, and again. And yet now, drowning in your own debt-traps, your social cohesion unravelling widely and with your vaunted “institutions” either fully captured or rotting, you still dare lecture us on the “risks” of even considering a different path.
Please.
Mandela should have been hanged, no ifs, no buts, just plain common sense.
Martin Layfield
11 months ago
One gets the impression from western liberal left types that because they opposed apartheid and they supported the ANC in the 70s and 80s that the ANC ought to support western left-liberalism. As usual, the left-liberals suffer narcissistic delusions.
The ANC were always anti-western, and it comes as no surprise to me at least that they are wary of abandoning links with Russia and China despite the supposed shock of western liberals. There was massive corruption under Mandela too so can we stop the pretence of jim being some kind of saint too?
Lesley van Reenen
11 months ago
The ANC has always been ideologically close to Russia.
It has always been the SACP with a few white liberals for window dressing
Lesley van Reenen
11 months ago
The ANC has always been ideologically close to Russia.
Friedrich Tellberg
11 months ago
The Russian invasion of Ukraine was very revealing. The anti-imperialism of many in the Global South or “non aligned” countries turned out to be only against American imperialism, not against non Western imperialism, which they almost welcome. Because their resentment proved to be stronger than their moral ideals. Human, all too human. At least we now know how strong their resentment is. We better take care.
Indeed, the Ukraine war is in many ways that of a former colony against a revanchist imperial power trying vainly to recolonise it. The sort of thing Hungary would have liked to do after WWI given the chance.
Not sure we have too much to directly worry about from South Africa destroying itself though. Which seems to be where they’re heading.
Sorry, but that is absolute bulls…t what you write about Hungary. Hungary never in its history had any colonies, so how on earth could have it “recolonise” anything? It wanted to get back its own territories, which belonged to it for 920 years and which were not lost due to conquest but to an extremely unfair peace treaty (Trianon, 1920).
Sorry, but that is absolute bulls…t what you write about Hungary. Hungary never in its history had any colonies, so how on earth could have it “recolonise” anything? It wanted to get back its own territories, which belonged to it for 920 years and which were not lost due to conquest but to an extremely unfair peace treaty (Trianon, 1920).
And this came a a surprise?
Also they do not have any moral ideals they just pay lip service to them to mollify their lickspittles in the west to keep the dollars following
In fairness it probably has much to do with the fact that Russia was not their colonial power as such. Poland understandably has more suspicion and grievance with German-Russian imperialism than say British or American imperialism, because the latter were never the imperial power lording over Poles. Likewise Serbs, Greeks, Hungary etc have a much bigger problem with past Turkish imperialism than they do Spanish or Portuguese equivalents.
Indeed, the Ukraine war is in many ways that of a former colony against a revanchist imperial power trying vainly to recolonise it. The sort of thing Hungary would have liked to do after WWI given the chance.
Not sure we have too much to directly worry about from South Africa destroying itself though. Which seems to be where they’re heading.
And this came a a surprise?
Also they do not have any moral ideals they just pay lip service to them to mollify their lickspittles in the west to keep the dollars following
In fairness it probably has much to do with the fact that Russia was not their colonial power as such. Poland understandably has more suspicion and grievance with German-Russian imperialism than say British or American imperialism, because the latter were never the imperial power lording over Poles. Likewise Serbs, Greeks, Hungary etc have a much bigger problem with past Turkish imperialism than they do Spanish or Portuguese equivalents.
Friedrich Tellberg
11 months ago
The Russian invasion of Ukraine was very revealing. The anti-imperialism of many in the Global South or “non aligned” countries turned out to be only against American imperialism, not against non Western imperialism, which they almost welcome. Because their resentment proved to be stronger than their moral ideals. Human, all too human. At least we now know how strong their resentment is. We better take care.
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
11 months ago
“Today, having made his fortune and reached the pinnacle of power, he is trampling over the idea of democracy with his support for a dictatorial regime trying to crush freedom in a neighbouring nation.”
And you expected a different outcome?
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
11 months ago
“Today, having made his fortune and reached the pinnacle of power, he is trampling over the idea of democracy with his support for a dictatorial regime trying to crush freedom in a neighbouring nation.”
And you expected a different outcome?
Nicky Samengo-Turner
11 months ago
South Africa is a bust totalitarian state, like most of the rest of Africa living 2000 years behind the civilised world.
Nicky Samengo-Turner
11 months ago
South Africa is a bust totalitarian state, like most of the rest of Africa living 2000 years behind the civilised world.
Samuel Ross
11 months ago
Mandela wasn’t so great …
Samuel Ross
11 months ago
Mandela wasn’t so great …
si mclardy
11 months ago
Not disputing the corruption in South Africa. I have visited Soweto a number of times and know there are problems, BUT this article implies that we, usa, are a democracy! Lol. Nobody asked me if we should bomb innocent children in Afghanistan and then lie to cover it up. That was a fitting end to decades of butchering families with drone strike after drone strike. Nobody asked me if we should destroy the nord stream pipeline going into winter. Nobody asked if they could spy and manipulate the American people and torture journalist who try to expose this truth. Please lose the holier than thou attitude when you speak of the splinter in the eye of another country.
If you really don’t like it in the USA and don’t think it’s a democracy, try living somewhere else. Chances are you won’t like it any better, likely far worse.
Such a product of you time, you are, Mr B. That’s the best you got? a modest proposal: you might do better in helping us explore complex issues unfolding in a complex time if you would cogitate a little more before smugly shooting volleys from the lofty heights of your Western tower.
Following your excellent logic the only thing that’ll save us all is if we, the uncivilized and unwashed, sought shelter under your fine and “eternally democratic” Western umbrellas.
Oh. Wait. We’re doing it. Nope: done it! Spoiler alert: contemporary demographic science indicates that, even if the original European tribes started breeding like bunnies and raised their fertility rates to 4 TOMORROW, you’re going to be ethnic minorities in the lands of your forefathers by 2050. Ah, noit to worry. You’ll still have “institutions”.
For a useful diaspora-playbook you might want to have your youth take a break from social media, Minecraft and Chat GPT to consult the Old Testament?
I’m sorry if you consider my comment to Peter B “insulting”. Perhaps you could do a sweep of his posts over the the past year and familiarise yourself with his bullying and haughty style? You reap what you sow.
I’m sorry if you consider my comment to Peter B “insulting”. Perhaps you could do a sweep of his posts over the the past year and familiarise yourself with his bullying and haughty style? You reap what you sow.
Such a product of you time, you are, Mr B. That’s the best you got? a modest proposal: you might do better in helping us explore complex issues unfolding in a complex time if you would cogitate a little more before smugly shooting volleys from the lofty heights of your Western tower.
Following your excellent logic the only thing that’ll save us all is if we, the uncivilized and unwashed, sought shelter under your fine and “eternally democratic” Western umbrellas.
Oh. Wait. We’re doing it. Nope: done it! Spoiler alert: contemporary demographic science indicates that, even if the original European tribes started breeding like bunnies and raised their fertility rates to 4 TOMORROW, you’re going to be ethnic minorities in the lands of your forefathers by 2050. Ah, noit to worry. You’ll still have “institutions”.
For a useful diaspora-playbook you might want to have your youth take a break from social media, Minecraft and Chat GPT to consult the Old Testament?
If you really don’t like it in the USA and don’t think it’s a democracy, try living somewhere else. Chances are you won’t like it any better, likely far worse.
si mclardy
11 months ago
Not disputing the corruption in South Africa. I have visited Soweto a number of times and know there are problems, BUT this article implies that we, usa, are a democracy! Lol. Nobody asked me if we should bomb innocent children in Afghanistan and then lie to cover it up. That was a fitting end to decades of butchering families with drone strike after drone strike. Nobody asked me if we should destroy the nord stream pipeline going into winter. Nobody asked if they could spy and manipulate the American people and torture journalist who try to expose this truth. Please lose the holier than thou attitude when you speak of the splinter in the eye of another country.
One gets the impression from western liberal left types that because they opposed apartheid and they supported the ANC in the 70s and 80s that the ANC ought to support western left-liberalism. As usual, the left-liberals suffer narcissistic delusions.
The ANC were always anti-western, and it comes as no surprise to me at least that they are wary of abandoning links with Russia and China despite the supposed shock of western liberals. There was massive corruption under Mandela too so can we stop the pretence of jim being some kind of saint too?
Indeed, it’s now beyond doubt that the ANC is a thoroughly corrupt organisation (which eventually guarantees incompetent government). And that is part of Mandela’s legacy. Not to diminish what he achieved – no one can be exceptional at everything.
We must still hope for the best for South Africa. A country with fantastic potential if properly managed and run. But plan for the worst. Which seems a far more likely outcome. Perhaps the corruption isn’t quite so embedded at every level that change through elections is no longer possible.
Also, is there any actual difference between the nature of the regimes in SA and Russia, birds of a feather and all that
What few understand is that there was never such a thing as “South Africa” in the sense that most understand the concept of Nation State to mean or represent. Rather, there were only ever “South Africas” – plural – embedded within horizontal (regional tribal/ethnic/demographic/micro-economic), vertical (class/race/cultural/ideological) and narrative-driven (unshared origins/histories) differences that are finally becoming visible to all. As they were always going to do. Which SA one wishes – or hopes – to believe in or subscribe to is therefore just a derivative of ones personal alignment with a preferred collage of these underlying drivers.
So observe closely over the next 3-5 years. Widely read and historically literate realists will discern that SA’s past and its now certain fate represents fractal of what is playing out in many parts of the world – and in the ever more rapidly decaying West in particular.
Sure, we have rampant corruption and spiraling external debt. Heck, probably a colour revolution or 2 thrown in as well just for “spice”; we know the playbook! Most of the causes endogenous of course; many of them incubated and finagled from abroad. None of this is new or unique, but the SA version comes with…uniquely local…dynamics.
But the point is that, whatever Brussels (or it’s little UK-spinoff) might think, SA’s future ultimately lies in greater alignment with a new multipolar world led by BRICS, the EAEU and the SCO. The road ahead is fraught, but aside from the deep corruption and internecine jockeying for power here, history has taught that Africa’s problems can only be solved by locally developed solutions, however long that may take. That nothing sustainable has emerged thus far is as damning of our long-time colonial overlords and their now tired and (finally!) increasingly widely rejected “divide and rule” playbook as it is of our own unforced errors and opportunities missed. But onwards we must. And will.
So bring on Russia and China, we assert. The West had it’s shot at ruling us for 300 years and blew it: again, and again, and again. And yet now, drowning in your own debt-traps, your social cohesion unravelling widely and with your vaunted “institutions” either fully captured or rotting, you still dare lecture us on the “risks” of even considering a different path.
Please.
“taught that Africa’s problems can only be solved by locally developed solutions”
“So bring on Russia and China we assert”
Nothing incoherent there, but I see you miss the nuance and so let me clarify: These states have a different playbook to the proselytizing West. Oh sure, they extract – just like everyone else – but history shows they tend to let locals get on with their affairs.
There. Fixed it for you.
The world is too interconnected for anyone to isolate, nor should they. But it is too diverse for anyone to rule and/or homogenize to suit transnational corporations and self serving ideologies. Like the West has done – and does. The facts are in: “Liberal democracy” has become little more than a stalking horse.
Nothing incoherent there, but I see you miss the nuance and so let me clarify: These states have a different playbook to the proselytizing West. Oh sure, they extract – just like everyone else – but history shows they tend to let locals get on with their affairs.
There. Fixed it for you.
The world is too interconnected for anyone to isolate, nor should they. But it is too diverse for anyone to rule and/or homogenize to suit transnational corporations and self serving ideologies. Like the West has done – and does. The facts are in: “Liberal democracy” has become little more than a stalking horse.
All of which assumes the ANC and its military wing EFF actually gives a damn about the ‘country’ = which they don’t. Greed for power, influence and material gain is all ‘they’ care about. To hell with the rest.
I don’t deny that for a moment. As it happens I am familiar with much of the back-room dealings, not only in SA but in the surrounding states. Would it surprise you to learn that it is – mainly western – foreign NGO/donor and corporate “funding” props up most of these pungent regimes and oligarchies?
Teasing out how much of Africa/South America/Middle Eastern corruption and instability was truly “home grown” versus foreign-instigated will be clearer to historians a generation or 2 from now.
For what it’s worth, I have been fortunate enough to criss-cross the globe and am invested in businesses outside of Africa. I could leave anytime but choose to stay, and we actually employ many more people than need or commercial prudence dictate. Despite its many foibles, living in Africa is a conscious choice – the choice engage in true, human problem solving as opposed to succumbing to the creeping existential torpor of the “civilised” West.
It’s not for everyone, of course. But most of us are trying. And who knows? We might even get somewhere one day once the cynically imposed colonialist borders are finally redrawn and leaders are encouraged (or allowed) to serve their voters rather than foreign expediency.
I’ll be long gone by then. But the souls of “Gobal South” will have their say, and take their rightful place, in the end. Despite the West.
Very correct. Anyone from the global South as me would agree with you. The problem is that the divide between the West and the non West is getting stronger by the day for the simple reason that most in the West are still stuck in an age frozen in the last century….while we have moved on.
Very correct. Anyone from the global South as me would agree with you. The problem is that the divide between the West and the non West is getting stronger by the day for the simple reason that most in the West are still stuck in an age frozen in the last century….while we have moved on.
I don’t deny that for a moment. As it happens I am familiar with much of the back-room dealings, not only in SA but in the surrounding states. Would it surprise you to learn that it is – mainly western – foreign NGO/donor and corporate “funding” props up most of these pungent regimes and oligarchies?
Teasing out how much of Africa/South America/Middle Eastern corruption and instability was truly “home grown” versus foreign-instigated will be clearer to historians a generation or 2 from now.
For what it’s worth, I have been fortunate enough to criss-cross the globe and am invested in businesses outside of Africa. I could leave anytime but choose to stay, and we actually employ many more people than need or commercial prudence dictate. Despite its many foibles, living in Africa is a conscious choice – the choice engage in true, human problem solving as opposed to succumbing to the creeping existential torpor of the “civilised” West.
It’s not for everyone, of course. But most of us are trying. And who knows? We might even get somewhere one day once the cynically imposed colonialist borders are finally redrawn and leaders are encouraged (or allowed) to serve their voters rather than foreign expediency.
I’ll be long gone by then. But the souls of “Gobal South” will have their say, and take their rightful place, in the end. Despite the West.
No system is perfect for sure and none has lasted for more than a couple of centuries….ever. However, you are certainly entitled to believe that the proven horrors of communism will suddenly reverse its playbook and offer hope and freedom for all.
Nice try, but don’t put words in my mouth. I’m as capitalist as they come (refer my reply to Webb for a bio). Looking past your straw man, surely you must at least be even peripherally aware of the tectonic shifts underway in the West towards Orwellian/Huxleyan panopticon dystopia – now seemingly irreversible – while bureaucratic overreach and transnational corporations feed off an ever-rising tide of poverty and nihilism generated by ballooning debt, fiscal excess and political gerrymandering?
Come on Mr Trees. “They” are not even hiding it anymore: your future is universal basic income backed by “Modern Monetary Theory”. Look at the welfare/transfer payment burden. You call that capitalism? Luckily UnHerd pages aren’t made of glass because, man, there’s no shortage of rock thorwers here.
Nice try, but don’t put words in my mouth. I’m as capitalist as they come (refer my reply to Webb for a bio). Looking past your straw man, surely you must at least be even peripherally aware of the tectonic shifts underway in the West towards Orwellian/Huxleyan panopticon dystopia – now seemingly irreversible – while bureaucratic overreach and transnational corporations feed off an ever-rising tide of poverty and nihilism generated by ballooning debt, fiscal excess and political gerrymandering?
Come on Mr Trees. “They” are not even hiding it anymore: your future is universal basic income backed by “Modern Monetary Theory”. Look at the welfare/transfer payment burden. You call that capitalism? Luckily UnHerd pages aren’t made of glass because, man, there’s no shortage of rock thorwers here.
“taught that Africa’s problems can only be solved by locally developed solutions”
“So bring on Russia and China we assert”
All of which assumes the ANC and its military wing EFF actually gives a damn about the ‘country’ = which they don’t. Greed for power, influence and material gain is all ‘they’ care about. To hell with the rest.
No system is perfect for sure and none has lasted for more than a couple of centuries….ever. However, you are certainly entitled to believe that the proven horrors of communism will suddenly reverse its playbook and offer hope and freedom for all.
Mandela should have been hanged, no ifs, no buts, just plain common sense.
Indeed, it’s now beyond doubt that the ANC is a thoroughly corrupt organisation (which eventually guarantees incompetent government). And that is part of Mandela’s legacy. Not to diminish what he achieved – no one can be exceptional at everything.
We must still hope for the best for South Africa. A country with fantastic potential if properly managed and run. But plan for the worst. Which seems a far more likely outcome. Perhaps the corruption isn’t quite so embedded at every level that change through elections is no longer possible.
Also, is there any actual difference between the nature of the regimes in SA and Russia, birds of a feather and all that
What few understand is that there was never such a thing as “South Africa” in the sense that most understand the concept of Nation State to mean or represent. Rather, there were only ever “South Africas” – plural – embedded within horizontal (regional tribal/ethnic/demographic/micro-economic), vertical (class/race/cultural/ideological) and narrative-driven (unshared origins/histories) differences that are finally becoming visible to all. As they were always going to do. Which SA one wishes – or hopes – to believe in or subscribe to is therefore just a derivative of ones personal alignment with a preferred collage of these underlying drivers.
So observe closely over the next 3-5 years. Widely read and historically literate realists will discern that SA’s past and its now certain fate represents fractal of what is playing out in many parts of the world – and in the ever more rapidly decaying West in particular.
Sure, we have rampant corruption and spiraling external debt. Heck, probably a colour revolution or 2 thrown in as well just for “spice”; we know the playbook! Most of the causes endogenous of course; many of them incubated and finagled from abroad. None of this is new or unique, but the SA version comes with…uniquely local…dynamics.
But the point is that, whatever Brussels (or it’s little UK-spinoff) might think, SA’s future ultimately lies in greater alignment with a new multipolar world led by BRICS, the EAEU and the SCO. The road ahead is fraught, but aside from the deep corruption and internecine jockeying for power here, history has taught that Africa’s problems can only be solved by locally developed solutions, however long that may take. That nothing sustainable has emerged thus far is as damning of our long-time colonial overlords and their now tired and (finally!) increasingly widely rejected “divide and rule” playbook as it is of our own unforced errors and opportunities missed. But onwards we must. And will.
So bring on Russia and China, we assert. The West had it’s shot at ruling us for 300 years and blew it: again, and again, and again. And yet now, drowning in your own debt-traps, your social cohesion unravelling widely and with your vaunted “institutions” either fully captured or rotting, you still dare lecture us on the “risks” of even considering a different path.
Please.
Mandela should have been hanged, no ifs, no buts, just plain common sense.
One gets the impression from western liberal left types that because they opposed apartheid and they supported the ANC in the 70s and 80s that the ANC ought to support western left-liberalism. As usual, the left-liberals suffer narcissistic delusions.
The ANC were always anti-western, and it comes as no surprise to me at least that they are wary of abandoning links with Russia and China despite the supposed shock of western liberals. There was massive corruption under Mandela too so can we stop the pretence of jim being some kind of saint too?
The ANC has always been ideologically close to Russia.
It has always been the SACP with a few white liberals for window dressing
It has always been the SACP with a few white liberals for window dressing
The ANC has always been ideologically close to Russia.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine was very revealing. The anti-imperialism of many in the Global South or “non aligned” countries turned out to be only against American imperialism, not against non Western imperialism, which they almost welcome. Because their resentment proved to be stronger than their moral ideals. Human, all too human. At least we now know how strong their resentment is. We better take care.
Indeed, the Ukraine war is in many ways that of a former colony against a revanchist imperial power trying vainly to recolonise it. The sort of thing Hungary would have liked to do after WWI given the chance.
Not sure we have too much to directly worry about from South Africa destroying itself though. Which seems to be where they’re heading.
Sorry, but that is absolute bulls…t what you write about Hungary. Hungary never in its history had any colonies, so how on earth could have it “recolonise” anything? It wanted to get back its own territories, which belonged to it for 920 years and which were not lost due to conquest but to an extremely unfair peace treaty (Trianon, 1920).
Sorry, but that is absolute bulls…t what you write about Hungary. Hungary never in its history had any colonies, so how on earth could have it “recolonise” anything? It wanted to get back its own territories, which belonged to it for 920 years and which were not lost due to conquest but to an extremely unfair peace treaty (Trianon, 1920).
And this came a a surprise?
Also they do not have any moral ideals they just pay lip service to them to mollify their lickspittles in the west to keep the dollars following
In fairness it probably has much to do with the fact that Russia was not their colonial power as such. Poland understandably has more suspicion and grievance with German-Russian imperialism than say British or American imperialism, because the latter were never the imperial power lording over Poles. Likewise Serbs, Greeks, Hungary etc have a much bigger problem with past Turkish imperialism than they do Spanish or Portuguese equivalents.
Indeed, the Ukraine war is in many ways that of a former colony against a revanchist imperial power trying vainly to recolonise it. The sort of thing Hungary would have liked to do after WWI given the chance.
Not sure we have too much to directly worry about from South Africa destroying itself though. Which seems to be where they’re heading.
And this came a a surprise?
Also they do not have any moral ideals they just pay lip service to them to mollify their lickspittles in the west to keep the dollars following
In fairness it probably has much to do with the fact that Russia was not their colonial power as such. Poland understandably has more suspicion and grievance with German-Russian imperialism than say British or American imperialism, because the latter were never the imperial power lording over Poles. Likewise Serbs, Greeks, Hungary etc have a much bigger problem with past Turkish imperialism than they do Spanish or Portuguese equivalents.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine was very revealing. The anti-imperialism of many in the Global South or “non aligned” countries turned out to be only against American imperialism, not against non Western imperialism, which they almost welcome. Because their resentment proved to be stronger than their moral ideals. Human, all too human. At least we now know how strong their resentment is. We better take care.
“Today, having made his fortune and reached the pinnacle of power, he is trampling over the idea of democracy with his support for a dictatorial regime trying to crush freedom in a neighbouring nation.”
And you expected a different outcome?
“Today, having made his fortune and reached the pinnacle of power, he is trampling over the idea of democracy with his support for a dictatorial regime trying to crush freedom in a neighbouring nation.”
And you expected a different outcome?
South Africa is a bust totalitarian state, like most of the rest of Africa living 2000 years behind the civilised world.
South Africa is a bust totalitarian state, like most of the rest of Africa living 2000 years behind the civilised world.
Mandela wasn’t so great …
Mandela wasn’t so great …
Not disputing the corruption in South Africa. I have visited Soweto a number of times and know there are problems, BUT this article implies that we, usa, are a democracy! Lol. Nobody asked me if we should bomb innocent children in Afghanistan and then lie to cover it up. That was a fitting end to decades of butchering families with drone strike after drone strike. Nobody asked me if we should destroy the nord stream pipeline going into winter. Nobody asked if they could spy and manipulate the American people and torture journalist who try to expose this truth. Please lose the holier than thou attitude when you speak of the splinter in the eye of another country.
If you really don’t like it in the USA and don’t think it’s a democracy, try living somewhere else. Chances are you won’t like it any better, likely far worse.
Such a product of you time, you are, Mr B. That’s the best you got? a modest proposal: you might do better in helping us explore complex issues unfolding in a complex time if you would cogitate a little more before smugly shooting volleys from the lofty heights of your Western tower.
Following your excellent logic the only thing that’ll save us all is if we, the uncivilized and unwashed, sought shelter under your fine and “eternally democratic” Western umbrellas.
Oh. Wait. We’re doing it. Nope: done it! Spoiler alert: contemporary demographic science indicates that, even if the original European tribes started breeding like bunnies and raised their fertility rates to 4 TOMORROW, you’re going to be ethnic minorities in the lands of your forefathers by 2050. Ah, noit to worry. You’ll still have “institutions”.
For a useful diaspora-playbook you might want to have your youth take a break from social media, Minecraft and Chat GPT to consult the Old Testament?
Insulting those who disagree with you reveals you’re not a “product of a complex time” rather a product of a more simplistic time.
That’s not an insult btw, just an observation.
I’m sorry if you consider my comment to Peter B “insulting”. Perhaps you could do a sweep of his posts over the the past year and familiarise yourself with his bullying and haughty style? You reap what you sow.
I’m sorry if you consider my comment to Peter B “insulting”. Perhaps you could do a sweep of his posts over the the past year and familiarise yourself with his bullying and haughty style? You reap what you sow.
Europe ‘invented’’ the Vernichtungslager and the Gulag. There will be NO need of the Old Testament thank you.
Insulting those who disagree with you reveals you’re not a “product of a complex time” rather a product of a more simplistic time.
That’s not an insult btw, just an observation.
Europe ‘invented’’ the Vernichtungslager and the Gulag. There will be NO need of the Old Testament thank you.
Such a product of you time, you are, Mr B. That’s the best you got? a modest proposal: you might do better in helping us explore complex issues unfolding in a complex time if you would cogitate a little more before smugly shooting volleys from the lofty heights of your Western tower.
Following your excellent logic the only thing that’ll save us all is if we, the uncivilized and unwashed, sought shelter under your fine and “eternally democratic” Western umbrellas.
Oh. Wait. We’re doing it. Nope: done it! Spoiler alert: contemporary demographic science indicates that, even if the original European tribes started breeding like bunnies and raised their fertility rates to 4 TOMORROW, you’re going to be ethnic minorities in the lands of your forefathers by 2050. Ah, noit to worry. You’ll still have “institutions”.
For a useful diaspora-playbook you might want to have your youth take a break from social media, Minecraft and Chat GPT to consult the Old Testament?
If you really don’t like it in the USA and don’t think it’s a democracy, try living somewhere else. Chances are you won’t like it any better, likely far worse.
Not disputing the corruption in South Africa. I have visited Soweto a number of times and know there are problems, BUT this article implies that we, usa, are a democracy! Lol. Nobody asked me if we should bomb innocent children in Afghanistan and then lie to cover it up. That was a fitting end to decades of butchering families with drone strike after drone strike. Nobody asked me if we should destroy the nord stream pipeline going into winter. Nobody asked if they could spy and manipulate the American people and torture journalist who try to expose this truth. Please lose the holier than thou attitude when you speak of the splinter in the eye of another country.