No – in Spare he makes fun of his lack of intelligence – just as his mother would laughingly call herself ‘thick’.
The difference is Diana had excellent instincts and Harry does not.
No – in Spare he makes fun of his lack of intelligence – just as his mother would laughingly call herself ‘thick’.
The difference is Diana had excellent instincts and Harry does not.
William Shaw
11 months ago
Advice to Harry…. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
Harry’s problem is he’s a stupid person who thinks he’s smart.
Last edited 11 months ago by William Shaw
Steve Murray
11 months ago
Identity itself is the subject of this piece.
I don’t think it can be any coincidence that when we’re all able to engage in the forging (pun intended?) and re-forging of ourselves in the online world, or in Harry’s case published media in general, that the rise in the phenomenon of self-ID has occurred; the two may well be very closely intertwined.
It’s not so much that the physical manifestation of those who seek to change their gender identity has become easier through surgery and pharmaceuticals, as that the very idea of the malleabllity of our identity has come to the fore as we engage with media, social or otherwise.
Harry’s identity – the story of his inner life – is itself no longer his own and KS does a superb job of exploring this through the example afforded by his having had a ghostwritten autobiography published. Something similar may be happening to us all, and the misinterpretations that occur (these Comments pages being a good example) according to preconceptions become part of our own stories.
Do we change in subtle ways, by our participation? If so, when adolescents are trying to form an identity, does their engagement with the online world – something unthinkable to previous generations – create the conditions whereby they believe they’re able to create any identity they wish, and act accordingly, even to the extent of attempting their physical transformation?
Perhaps that’s also why younger people find it so much easier to accept the chosen identities of their peers, pronouns included. KS offers very valuable insights into this Brave New World, and its effects can only continue to expand and reverberate in all our lives.
People who screw with other peoples lives with their interpretations and know it all need to write their own books so we can see how illiterate they are. Ghost writing should be illegal with out their names on the books, this way they aren’t liable during lawsuits.
People who screw with other peoples lives with their interpretations and know it all need to write their own books so we can see how illiterate they are. Ghost writing should be illegal with out their names on the books, this way they aren’t liable during lawsuits.
Last edited 11 months ago by Vicha Unkow
Steve Murray
11 months ago
Identity itself is the subject of this piece.
I don’t think it can be any coincidence that when we’re all able to engage in the forging (pun intended?) and re-forging of ourselves in the online world, or in Harry’s case published media in general, that the rise in the phenomenon of self-ID has occurred; the two may well be very closely intertwined.
It’s not so much that the physical manifestation of those who seek to change their gender identity has become easier through surgery and pharmaceuticals, as that the very idea of the malleabllity of our identity has come to the fore as we engage with media, social or otherwise.
Harry’s identity – the story of his inner life – is itself no longer his own and KS does a superb job of exploring this through the example afforded by his having had a ghostwritten autobiography published. Something similar may be happening to us all, and the misinterpretations that occur (these Comments pages being a good example) according to preconceptions become part of our own stories.
Do we change in subtle ways, by our participation? If so, when adolescents are trying to form an identity, does their engagement with the online world – something unthinkable to previous generations – create the conditions whereby they believe they’re able to create any identity they wish, and act accordingly, even to the extent of attempting their physical transformation?
Perhaps that’s also why younger people find it so much easier to accept the chosen identities of their peers, pronouns included. KS offers very valuable insights into this Brave New World, and its effects can only continue to expand and reverberate in all our lives.
Last edited 11 months ago by Steve Murray
Peter B
11 months ago
Kathleen Stock is too smart to be wasting her time on these no marks.
In general, I’m not interested in reading ghost written stuff. If people can’t write at least part of it themselves, they probably aren’t that interesting or original. But I suppose if it’s all made up anyway, it may not matter who writes it.
One of the great things about the comments here is that they aren’t ghost-written (Russian bots aside) and people say stuff which is worth reading.
I know what you mean, but i think KS is using the example of Harry’s book to tell a wider story, making a far more serious point about our identity in both the online/media world and in real life (IRL), a topic she visits in much of her work. Indeed, she touches on her own experience at one point, by way of illustration.
Her critics, she seems to suggest, have identities IRL which render them immune to whatever she says, since their very being is made up through opposition to her views.
The key message therefore is how our identities are in danger of being submerged beneath the preconceptions which arise once we’re engaged in the realm of media, and that includes almost everyone now to a greater or lesser degree. Identity itself is the subject of this piece; Harry and his ghostwriter merely the vehicles by which she conveys the complexities we would do well to ponder upon, not least those who contribute regularly to these Comments sections.
“In general, I’m not interested in reading ghost written stuff. If people can’t write at least part of it themselves, they probably aren’t that interesting or original.”
This is a good thought, though I don’t quite endorse it. I think every human is a novel, every life has the essential drama of the human condition, and a good literary stylist can bring it out of any life.
Recently I’ve been reading light memoirs from two relatively obscure mid-century British figures – Roy Hattersley and Claud Cockburn – not because I have any particular interest in their lives but because they express themselves well.
If we are interested in the life of Prince Harry (I’m not, but I don’t disparage those who are), it’s not because he has “more” of the human condition to share than we non-celebrities. No, I think it’s because a wider range of people know about his life, and so by learning more about him we enter into a broader conversation. ‘Celebrity’ exists to give us a common narrative in which to discuss our universal stories.
Having said all that, I bet Prince Harry’s memoir would’ve been a lot more interesting with a lighter editorial touch. Harry’s (apparent) goal of a transparent relationship with the adoring masses would’ve been better achieved. Admittedly, we fancy-pants types would be guffawing at him more, and he would’ve failed to impress people with his intellect – but maybe he would’ve gotten to know himself a bit better, too.
Absolutely agree. My personal library contains many wonderful autobiographies, including those of David Niven, Alec Guinness, Peter O’Toole (who signed his first at a West End stage door for me), and Stephen Fry, just to name a few. These splendid actors were/are also capable, witty, engaging writers and it’s a pleasure to read their stories in their words.
The excerpts I read of “ Spare” were obviously written in someone else’s voice, so I wondered why anyone would bother reading what is essentially pity PR – something the prince’s mother excelled in. Diana was right: William is like his father, and Harry is just like her. She didn’t mean it as a compliment.
Good comments. Many, though perhaps not here, would disagree with your last point by seeing it as a dig, by Diana, at Charles. However I agree with your interpretation but this only goes to prove K’s point that we look for and read stuff only to “search for new ways to shore up one’s initial interpretation”
When she made the comment, she was referring to William being “smart, like Charles” (an arguable assertion, I’ll admit), and Harry being brainless, “like me”. That doesn’t sound terribly complimentary.
When she made the comment, she was referring to William being “smart, like Charles” (an arguable assertion, I’ll admit), and Harry being brainless, “like me”. That doesn’t sound terribly complimentary.
Interesting — of the entire universe of remarkable people who write their own memoirs, you choose to spend hours, if not weeks, reading the “thoughts” of actors?
Good comments. Many, though perhaps not here, would disagree with your last point by seeing it as a dig, by Diana, at Charles. However I agree with your interpretation but this only goes to prove K’s point that we look for and read stuff only to “search for new ways to shore up one’s initial interpretation”
Interesting — of the entire universe of remarkable people who write their own memoirs, you choose to spend hours, if not weeks, reading the “thoughts” of actors?
Perhaps I was a little free with the words. What I’m really looking for is someone who’s done their own thinking and has something interesting and useful to say. People who fit this bill usually are able to express themselves in a clear and interesting way. But perhaps not always. Andre Agassi seemed to have no problem expressing himself from what I recall. Perhaps I ought to read his book.
It’s not the help I really object to. It’s the sense that you’re not getting the true picture – or that you’re wasting your time.
But perhaps “Spare” with its ghostwriter and naked distortions is actually giving a “true and fair” picture of Harry. Either way, I already know quite enough and I’m not going to read it.
I probably agree… I don’t know why this concept was introduced. Maybe it is a biography with a close collaboration with the relevant person. It is no secret that Moehringer wrote these books. I won’t read Spare, but Open and Shoe Dog are page turners.
I probably agree… I don’t know why this concept was introduced. Maybe it is a biography with a close collaboration with the relevant person. It is no secret that Moehringer wrote these books. I won’t read Spare, but Open and Shoe Dog are page turners.
Perhaps I was a little free with the words. What I’m really looking for is someone who’s done their own thinking and has something interesting and useful to say. People who fit this bill usually are able to express themselves in a clear and interesting way. But perhaps not always. Andre Agassi seemed to have no problem expressing himself from what I recall. Perhaps I ought to read his book.
It’s not the help I really object to. It’s the sense that you’re not getting the true picture – or that you’re wasting your time.
But perhaps “Spare” with its ghostwriter and naked distortions is actually giving a “true and fair” picture of Harry. Either way, I already know quite enough and I’m not going to read it.
Being interesting or original does not mean you can write your way out of a paper bag. Sometimes you need help. There’s nothing wrong with helping someone, who is not by trade a writer, tell her or his compelling story.
I know what you mean, but i think KS is using the example of Harry’s book to tell a wider story, making a far more serious point about our identity in both the online/media world and in real life (IRL), a topic she visits in much of her work. Indeed, she touches on her own experience at one point, by way of illustration.
Her critics, she seems to suggest, have identities IRL which render them immune to whatever she says, since their very being is made up through opposition to her views.
The key message therefore is how our identities are in danger of being submerged beneath the preconceptions which arise once we’re engaged in the realm of media, and that includes almost everyone now to a greater or lesser degree. Identity itself is the subject of this piece; Harry and his ghostwriter merely the vehicles by which she conveys the complexities we would do well to ponder upon, not least those who contribute regularly to these Comments sections.
“In general, I’m not interested in reading ghost written stuff. If people can’t write at least part of it themselves, they probably aren’t that interesting or original.”
This is a good thought, though I don’t quite endorse it. I think every human is a novel, every life has the essential drama of the human condition, and a good literary stylist can bring it out of any life.
Recently I’ve been reading light memoirs from two relatively obscure mid-century British figures – Roy Hattersley and Claud Cockburn – not because I have any particular interest in their lives but because they express themselves well.
If we are interested in the life of Prince Harry (I’m not, but I don’t disparage those who are), it’s not because he has “more” of the human condition to share than we non-celebrities. No, I think it’s because a wider range of people know about his life, and so by learning more about him we enter into a broader conversation. ‘Celebrity’ exists to give us a common narrative in which to discuss our universal stories.
Having said all that, I bet Prince Harry’s memoir would’ve been a lot more interesting with a lighter editorial touch. Harry’s (apparent) goal of a transparent relationship with the adoring masses would’ve been better achieved. Admittedly, we fancy-pants types would be guffawing at him more, and he would’ve failed to impress people with his intellect – but maybe he would’ve gotten to know himself a bit better, too.
Absolutely agree. My personal library contains many wonderful autobiographies, including those of David Niven, Alec Guinness, Peter O’Toole (who signed his first at a West End stage door for me), and Stephen Fry, just to name a few. These splendid actors were/are also capable, witty, engaging writers and it’s a pleasure to read their stories in their words.
The excerpts I read of “ Spare” were obviously written in someone else’s voice, so I wondered why anyone would bother reading what is essentially pity PR – something the prince’s mother excelled in. Diana was right: William is like his father, and Harry is just like her. She didn’t mean it as a compliment.
Being interesting or original does not mean you can write your way out of a paper bag. Sometimes you need help. There’s nothing wrong with helping someone, who is not by trade a writer, tell her or his compelling story.
It would have been vastly more interesting if Harry had actually written it. Then we would know what he is really like.
Peter B
11 months ago
Kathleen Stock is too smart to be wasting her time on these no marks.
In general, I’m not interested in reading ghost written stuff. If people can’t write at least part of it themselves, they probably aren’t that interesting or original. But I suppose if it’s all made up anyway, it may not matter who writes it.
One of the great things about the comments here is that they aren’t ghost-written (Russian bots aside) and people say stuff which is worth reading.
Arkadian X
11 months ago
What surprises me the most reading this is that KS actually read “waaah”.
I don’t think she read the book, but the long article by J.Moehringer in the New Yorker.
Arkadian X
11 months ago
What surprises me the most reading this is that KS actually read “waaah”.
Eric Mader
11 months ago
FFS, who cares about this guy? Why is any serious writer actually writing about him?
Please, Kathleen Stock, please, UnHerd–do the right thing. Leave Harry where he belongs. In utter silence.
Last edited 11 months ago by Eric Mader
Eric Mader
11 months ago
FFS, who cares about this guy? Why is any serious writer actually writing about him?
Please, Kathleen Stock, please, UnHerd–do the right thing. Leave Harry where he belongs. In utter silence.
Last edited 11 months ago by Eric Mader
Peter Kwasi-Modo
11 months ago
Many thanks, Dr. Stock. You are enlightening and engaging on every topic you tackle. I like the irony in your Roland Barthes quotation: “The birth of the reader must be at the expense of the death of the author.” Many would dismiss the quote as pretentious twaddle if it were anonymous, but assume that it must be profound because they know its author to be Roland Barthes.
The point about irony is that it is Roland Barthes himself who did not appreciate how people react. The irony does not depend on whether you have heard of him.
The point about irony is that it is Roland Barthes himself who did not appreciate how people react. The irony does not depend on whether you have heard of him.
On the other hand some such as myself would dismiss it as pretentious twaddle because its author was Roland Barthes. The same would go for Jacques Derrida or Michel Foucauld.
That is an interesting opinion, but has no effect on whether or not Barthes’ remark might be considered to be ironic. It would only cease to be ironic if everyone shared your opinion of him.
It might actually be more ironic, if someone generally viewed as a purveyor of pretentious twaddle said something profound. Like Rumsfeld and his known unknowns etc.
For a remark to be truly ironic, the speaker must be unaware of the alternative interpretation. My all-time favourite example is John Prescott, in the Commons in 1998, introducing legislation that everyone realised would undermine green belt building restrictions: “The Green Belt is a Labour achievement and we intend to build on it”.
For a remark to be truly ironic, the speaker must be unaware of the alternative interpretation. My all-time favourite example is John Prescott, in the Commons in 1998, introducing legislation that everyone realised would undermine green belt building restrictions: “The Green Belt is a Labour achievement and we intend to build on it”.
It might actually be more ironic, if someone generally viewed as a purveyor of pretentious twaddle said something profound. Like Rumsfeld and his known unknowns etc.
That is an interesting opinion, but has no effect on whether or not Barthes’ remark might be considered to be ironic. It would only cease to be ironic if everyone shared your opinion of him.
On the other hand some such as myself would dismiss it as pretentious twaddle because its author was Roland Barthes. The same would go for Jacques Derrida or Michel Foucauld.
Peter Kwasi-Modo
11 months ago
Many thanks, Dr. Stock. You are enlightening and engaging on every topic you tackle. I like the irony in your Roland Barthes quotation: “The birth of the reader must be at the expense of the death of the author.” Many would dismiss the quote as pretentious twaddle if it were anonymous, but assume that it must be profound because they know its author to be Roland Barthes.
Judy Kaplan Warner
11 months ago
I wonder if it is inevitable these days that every ghostwriter should be revealed. It wasn’t always that way. I myself used to write fundraising letters over the signature of one or another politician and I thought it would be very crass to ever mention publicly that I was the writer when a couple of the times a letter of mine was quoted somewhere. Then Peggy Noonan decided to announce to the world that she was the author of some speeches of President GHW Bush, especially some much quoted phrases. (I think “a thousand points of light” was one of them.) She got considerable publicity and TV appearances for her revelation, which I suppose was her motive. I was simply aghast. Of course we all know that most politicians don’t write their own speeches or books, but I thought there was a tacit agreement that the speechwriter was being paid for a service that included letting people assume that the speech *was* written by the person who gave it, or at least waited until it became irrelevant. I still feel this way.
Judy Kaplan Warner
11 months ago
I wonder if it is inevitable these days that every ghostwriter should be revealed. It wasn’t always that way. I myself used to write fundraising letters over the signature of one or another politician and I thought it would be very crass to ever mention publicly that I was the writer when a couple of the times a letter of mine was quoted somewhere. Then Peggy Noonan decided to announce to the world that she was the author of some speeches of President GHW Bush, especially some much quoted phrases. (I think “a thousand points of light” was one of them.) She got considerable publicity and TV appearances for her revelation, which I suppose was her motive. I was simply aghast. Of course we all know that most politicians don’t write their own speeches or books, but I thought there was a tacit agreement that the speechwriter was being paid for a service that included letting people assume that the speech *was* written by the person who gave it, or at least waited until it became irrelevant. I still feel this way.
James Kirk
11 months ago
One of the rules for authors is to not lean over the readers shoulder and explain things. In this case he leaans over Harry’s shoulder. Anyone interested in what Harry thinks would be better served by a biography with quotes. It would still be ridiculed.
James Kirk
11 months ago
One of the rules for authors is to not lean over the readers shoulder and explain things. In this case he leaans over Harry’s shoulder. Anyone interested in what Harry thinks would be better served by a biography with quotes. It would still be ridiculed.
polidori redux
11 months ago
I thought that only footballers needed ghostwriters
I thought that only footballers needed ghostwriters
Lesley van Reenen
11 months ago
Moehringer was the ghostwriter of 2 excellent biographies – Open and Shoe Dog and I hope he does more. Why do we have to overthink this because the whining Sussex is now involved.
Lesley van Reenen
11 months ago
Moehringer was the ghostwriter of 2 excellent biographies – Open and Shoe Dog and I hope he does more. Why do we have to overthink this because the whining Sussex is now involved.
Alan Kaufman
11 months ago
Whatever happened to the old but decidedly honest practice of having the authorship honestly clarified: “Spare, as told to J.R. Moehringer”?
Alan Kaufman
11 months ago
Whatever happened to the old but decidedly honest practice of having the authorship honestly clarified: “Spare, as told to J.R. Moehringer”?
Nicky Samengo-Turner
11 months ago
The white shirt that he is wearing in the photo tells one all that we need to know…
Is KS’s splendid line: “In order to have literary heroes, Harry would have had to read some books” similarly revealing?
Nicky Samengo-Turner
11 months ago
The white shirt that he is wearing in the photo tells one all that we need to know…
LCarey Rowland
11 months ago
May God save Prince Harry.
May God save J.R. from being tempted into falsehood. Four books encompasses a long time of indentured servitude, rather like a literary knighthood. Is J.R. noble enough to last that long?
LCarey Rowland
11 months ago
May God save Prince Harry.
May God save J.R. from being tempted into falsehood. Four books encompasses a long time of indentured servitude, rather like a literary knighthood. Is J.R. noble enough to last that long?
Roger Tilbury
11 months ago
“In order to have literary heroes, Harry would have had to read some books.”
LOL
Roger Tilbury
11 months ago
“In order to have literary heroes, Harry would have had to read some books.”
LOL
Nicky Samengo-Turner
10 months ago
Old Foot Guards joke… ” Man goes to surgeon for a brain transplant… Surgeon tells him that there are three available brains… a £50, OOOO brain, a £75000 brain and a £250,000 brain… namely, an Oxford don’s, a Harvard philosopher, and the most expensive a Household Cavalry Officer’s. The man asks, ‘ why on earth is the Household Cavalry Officers so expensive?” to which the surgeon replies ” It’s never ever been used”…..
Advice to Harry…. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
Harry’s problem is he’s a stupid person who thinks he’s smart.
Which explains why he married a woman of like mind!
No – in Spare he makes fun of his lack of intelligence – just as his mother would laughingly call herself ‘thick’.
The difference is Diana had excellent instincts and Harry does not.
Which explains why he married a woman of like mind!
No – in Spare he makes fun of his lack of intelligence – just as his mother would laughingly call herself ‘thick’.
The difference is Diana had excellent instincts and Harry does not.
Advice to Harry…. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
Harry’s problem is he’s a stupid person who thinks he’s smart.
Identity itself is the subject of this piece.
I don’t think it can be any coincidence that when we’re all able to engage in the forging (pun intended?) and re-forging of ourselves in the online world, or in Harry’s case published media in general, that the rise in the phenomenon of self-ID has occurred; the two may well be very closely intertwined.
It’s not so much that the physical manifestation of those who seek to change their gender identity has become easier through surgery and pharmaceuticals, as that the very idea of the malleabllity of our identity has come to the fore as we engage with media, social or otherwise.
Harry’s identity – the story of his inner life – is itself no longer his own and KS does a superb job of exploring this through the example afforded by his having had a ghostwritten autobiography published. Something similar may be happening to us all, and the misinterpretations that occur (these Comments pages being a good example) according to preconceptions become part of our own stories.
Do we change in subtle ways, by our participation? If so, when adolescents are trying to form an identity, does their engagement with the online world – something unthinkable to previous generations – create the conditions whereby they believe they’re able to create any identity they wish, and act accordingly, even to the extent of attempting their physical transformation?
Perhaps that’s also why younger people find it so much easier to accept the chosen identities of their peers, pronouns included. KS offers very valuable insights into this Brave New World, and its effects can only continue to expand and reverberate in all our lives.
People who screw with other peoples lives with their interpretations and know it all need to write their own books so we can see how illiterate they are. Ghost writing should be illegal with out their names on the books, this way they aren’t liable during lawsuits.
People who screw with other peoples lives with their interpretations and know it all need to write their own books so we can see how illiterate they are. Ghost writing should be illegal with out their names on the books, this way they aren’t liable during lawsuits.
Identity itself is the subject of this piece.
I don’t think it can be any coincidence that when we’re all able to engage in the forging (pun intended?) and re-forging of ourselves in the online world, or in Harry’s case published media in general, that the rise in the phenomenon of self-ID has occurred; the two may well be very closely intertwined.
It’s not so much that the physical manifestation of those who seek to change their gender identity has become easier through surgery and pharmaceuticals, as that the very idea of the malleabllity of our identity has come to the fore as we engage with media, social or otherwise.
Harry’s identity – the story of his inner life – is itself no longer his own and KS does a superb job of exploring this through the example afforded by his having had a ghostwritten autobiography published. Something similar may be happening to us all, and the misinterpretations that occur (these Comments pages being a good example) according to preconceptions become part of our own stories.
Do we change in subtle ways, by our participation? If so, when adolescents are trying to form an identity, does their engagement with the online world – something unthinkable to previous generations – create the conditions whereby they believe they’re able to create any identity they wish, and act accordingly, even to the extent of attempting their physical transformation?
Perhaps that’s also why younger people find it so much easier to accept the chosen identities of their peers, pronouns included. KS offers very valuable insights into this Brave New World, and its effects can only continue to expand and reverberate in all our lives.
Kathleen Stock is too smart to be wasting her time on these no marks.
In general, I’m not interested in reading ghost written stuff. If people can’t write at least part of it themselves, they probably aren’t that interesting or original. But I suppose if it’s all made up anyway, it may not matter who writes it.
One of the great things about the comments here is that they aren’t ghost-written (Russian bots aside) and people say stuff which is worth reading.
I know what you mean, but i think KS is using the example of Harry’s book to tell a wider story, making a far more serious point about our identity in both the online/media world and in real life (IRL), a topic she visits in much of her work. Indeed, she touches on her own experience at one point, by way of illustration.
Her critics, she seems to suggest, have identities IRL which render them immune to whatever she says, since their very being is made up through opposition to her views.
The key message therefore is how our identities are in danger of being submerged beneath the preconceptions which arise once we’re engaged in the realm of media, and that includes almost everyone now to a greater or lesser degree. Identity itself is the subject of this piece; Harry and his ghostwriter merely the vehicles by which she conveys the complexities we would do well to ponder upon, not least those who contribute regularly to these Comments sections.
“In general, I’m not interested in reading ghost written stuff. If people can’t write at least part of it themselves, they probably aren’t that interesting or original.”
This is a good thought, though I don’t quite endorse it. I think every human is a novel, every life has the essential drama of the human condition, and a good literary stylist can bring it out of any life.
Recently I’ve been reading light memoirs from two relatively obscure mid-century British figures – Roy Hattersley and Claud Cockburn – not because I have any particular interest in their lives but because they express themselves well.
If we are interested in the life of Prince Harry (I’m not, but I don’t disparage those who are), it’s not because he has “more” of the human condition to share than we non-celebrities. No, I think it’s because a wider range of people know about his life, and so by learning more about him we enter into a broader conversation. ‘Celebrity’ exists to give us a common narrative in which to discuss our universal stories.
Having said all that, I bet Prince Harry’s memoir would’ve been a lot more interesting with a lighter editorial touch. Harry’s (apparent) goal of a transparent relationship with the adoring masses would’ve been better achieved. Admittedly, we fancy-pants types would be guffawing at him more, and he would’ve failed to impress people with his intellect – but maybe he would’ve gotten to know himself a bit better, too.
Peter, surely “Is this really the writer speaking to me” is an interesting question
Absolutely agree. My personal library contains many wonderful autobiographies, including those of David Niven, Alec Guinness, Peter O’Toole (who signed his first at a West End stage door for me), and Stephen Fry, just to name a few. These splendid actors were/are also capable, witty, engaging writers and it’s a pleasure to read their stories in their words.
The excerpts I read of “ Spare” were obviously written in someone else’s voice, so I wondered why anyone would bother reading what is essentially pity PR – something the prince’s mother excelled in. Diana was right: William is like his father, and Harry is just like her. She didn’t mean it as a compliment.
Good comments. Many, though perhaps not here, would disagree with your last point by seeing it as a dig, by Diana, at Charles. However I agree with your interpretation but this only goes to prove K’s point that we look for and read stuff only to “search for new ways to shore up one’s initial interpretation”
When she made the comment, she was referring to William being “smart, like Charles” (an arguable assertion, I’ll admit), and Harry being brainless, “like me”. That doesn’t sound terribly complimentary.
When she made the comment, she was referring to William being “smart, like Charles” (an arguable assertion, I’ll admit), and Harry being brainless, “like me”. That doesn’t sound terribly complimentary.
Interesting — of the entire universe of remarkable people who write their own memoirs, you choose to spend hours, if not weeks, reading the “thoughts” of actors?
Good comments. Many, though perhaps not here, would disagree with your last point by seeing it as a dig, by Diana, at Charles. However I agree with your interpretation but this only goes to prove K’s point that we look for and read stuff only to “search for new ways to shore up one’s initial interpretation”
Interesting — of the entire universe of remarkable people who write their own memoirs, you choose to spend hours, if not weeks, reading the “thoughts” of actors?
Why should Andre Agassi or Phil Knight be able to write creatively and well?
They shouldn’t be expected to, but the books about them aren’t autobiographies if they’re ghost written. They’re “as told tos”.
Then what ever happened to the concept of an authorized biography, such as the one by that great British author, Omid Scobie?
Then what ever happened to the concept of an authorized biography, such as the one by that great British author, Omid Scobie?
Perhaps I was a little free with the words. What I’m really looking for is someone who’s done their own thinking and has something interesting and useful to say. People who fit this bill usually are able to express themselves in a clear and interesting way. But perhaps not always. Andre Agassi seemed to have no problem expressing himself from what I recall. Perhaps I ought to read his book.
It’s not the help I really object to. It’s the sense that you’re not getting the true picture – or that you’re wasting your time.
But perhaps “Spare” with its ghostwriter and naked distortions is actually giving a “true and fair” picture of Harry. Either way, I already know quite enough and I’m not going to read it.
I probably agree… I don’t know why this concept was introduced. Maybe it is a biography with a close collaboration with the relevant person. It is no secret that Moehringer wrote these books. I won’t read Spare, but Open and Shoe Dog are page turners.
I probably agree… I don’t know why this concept was introduced. Maybe it is a biography with a close collaboration with the relevant person. It is no secret that Moehringer wrote these books. I won’t read Spare, but Open and Shoe Dog are page turners.
They shouldn’t be expected to, but the books about them aren’t autobiographies if they’re ghost written. They’re “as told tos”.
Perhaps I was a little free with the words. What I’m really looking for is someone who’s done their own thinking and has something interesting and useful to say. People who fit this bill usually are able to express themselves in a clear and interesting way. But perhaps not always. Andre Agassi seemed to have no problem expressing himself from what I recall. Perhaps I ought to read his book.
It’s not the help I really object to. It’s the sense that you’re not getting the true picture – or that you’re wasting your time.
But perhaps “Spare” with its ghostwriter and naked distortions is actually giving a “true and fair” picture of Harry. Either way, I already know quite enough and I’m not going to read it.
Being interesting or original does not mean you can write your way out of a paper bag. Sometimes you need help. There’s nothing wrong with helping someone, who is not by trade a writer, tell her or his compelling story.
All good, then don’t call it an autobiography.” “Auto” in that context means “self.”
I’m reminded of an Oscar Wilde quote that rather stuck in the memory: “Anyone can make history, but it takes a great man to write it”.
All good, then don’t call it an autobiography.” “Auto” in that context means “self.”
I’m reminded of an Oscar Wilde quote that rather stuck in the memory: “Anyone can make history, but it takes a great man to write it”.
It would have been vastly more interesting if Harry had actually written it. Then we would know what he is really like.
That he can’t spele, porbably.
That he can’t spele, porbably.
I know what you mean, but i think KS is using the example of Harry’s book to tell a wider story, making a far more serious point about our identity in both the online/media world and in real life (IRL), a topic she visits in much of her work. Indeed, she touches on her own experience at one point, by way of illustration.
Her critics, she seems to suggest, have identities IRL which render them immune to whatever she says, since their very being is made up through opposition to her views.
The key message therefore is how our identities are in danger of being submerged beneath the preconceptions which arise once we’re engaged in the realm of media, and that includes almost everyone now to a greater or lesser degree. Identity itself is the subject of this piece; Harry and his ghostwriter merely the vehicles by which she conveys the complexities we would do well to ponder upon, not least those who contribute regularly to these Comments sections.
“In general, I’m not interested in reading ghost written stuff. If people can’t write at least part of it themselves, they probably aren’t that interesting or original.”
This is a good thought, though I don’t quite endorse it. I think every human is a novel, every life has the essential drama of the human condition, and a good literary stylist can bring it out of any life.
Recently I’ve been reading light memoirs from two relatively obscure mid-century British figures – Roy Hattersley and Claud Cockburn – not because I have any particular interest in their lives but because they express themselves well.
If we are interested in the life of Prince Harry (I’m not, but I don’t disparage those who are), it’s not because he has “more” of the human condition to share than we non-celebrities. No, I think it’s because a wider range of people know about his life, and so by learning more about him we enter into a broader conversation. ‘Celebrity’ exists to give us a common narrative in which to discuss our universal stories.
Having said all that, I bet Prince Harry’s memoir would’ve been a lot more interesting with a lighter editorial touch. Harry’s (apparent) goal of a transparent relationship with the adoring masses would’ve been better achieved. Admittedly, we fancy-pants types would be guffawing at him more, and he would’ve failed to impress people with his intellect – but maybe he would’ve gotten to know himself a bit better, too.
Peter, surely “Is this really the writer speaking to me” is an interesting question
Absolutely agree. My personal library contains many wonderful autobiographies, including those of David Niven, Alec Guinness, Peter O’Toole (who signed his first at a West End stage door for me), and Stephen Fry, just to name a few. These splendid actors were/are also capable, witty, engaging writers and it’s a pleasure to read their stories in their words.
The excerpts I read of “ Spare” were obviously written in someone else’s voice, so I wondered why anyone would bother reading what is essentially pity PR – something the prince’s mother excelled in. Diana was right: William is like his father, and Harry is just like her. She didn’t mean it as a compliment.
Why should Andre Agassi or Phil Knight be able to write creatively and well?
Being interesting or original does not mean you can write your way out of a paper bag. Sometimes you need help. There’s nothing wrong with helping someone, who is not by trade a writer, tell her or his compelling story.
It would have been vastly more interesting if Harry had actually written it. Then we would know what he is really like.
Kathleen Stock is too smart to be wasting her time on these no marks.
In general, I’m not interested in reading ghost written stuff. If people can’t write at least part of it themselves, they probably aren’t that interesting or original. But I suppose if it’s all made up anyway, it may not matter who writes it.
One of the great things about the comments here is that they aren’t ghost-written (Russian bots aside) and people say stuff which is worth reading.
What surprises me the most reading this is that KS actually read “waaah”.
I wish we had a “LoL” icon. LoL anyway.
Thanks — I hope the website manager is listening
Thanks — I hope the website manager is listening
I don’t think she read the book, but the long article by J.Moehringer in the New Yorker.
That would make sense.
That would make sense.
I wish we had a “LoL” icon. LoL anyway.
I don’t think she read the book, but the long article by J.Moehringer in the New Yorker.
What surprises me the most reading this is that KS actually read “waaah”.
FFS, who cares about this guy? Why is any serious writer actually writing about him?
Please, Kathleen Stock, please, UnHerd–do the right thing. Leave Harry where he belongs. In utter silence.
FFS, who cares about this guy? Why is any serious writer actually writing about him?
Please, Kathleen Stock, please, UnHerd–do the right thing. Leave Harry where he belongs. In utter silence.
Many thanks, Dr. Stock. You are enlightening and engaging on every topic you tackle. I like the irony in your Roland Barthes quotation: “The birth of the reader must be at the expense of the death of the author.” Many would dismiss the quote as pretentious twaddle if it were anonymous, but assume that it must be profound because they know its author to be Roland Barthes.
Not for me – I had to look him up.
The point about irony is that it is Roland Barthes himself who did not appreciate how people react. The irony does not depend on whether you have heard of him.
The point about irony is that it is Roland Barthes himself who did not appreciate how people react. The irony does not depend on whether you have heard of him.
On the other hand some such as myself would dismiss it as pretentious twaddle because its author was Roland Barthes. The same would go for Jacques Derrida or Michel Foucauld.
That is an interesting opinion, but has no effect on whether or not Barthes’ remark might be considered to be ironic. It would only cease to be ironic if everyone shared your opinion of him.
It might actually be more ironic, if someone generally viewed as a purveyor of pretentious twaddle said something profound. Like Rumsfeld and his known unknowns etc.
For a remark to be truly ironic, the speaker must be unaware of the alternative interpretation. My all-time favourite example is John Prescott, in the Commons in 1998, introducing legislation that everyone realised would undermine green belt building restrictions: “The Green Belt is a Labour achievement and we intend to build on it”.
For a remark to be truly ironic, the speaker must be unaware of the alternative interpretation. My all-time favourite example is John Prescott, in the Commons in 1998, introducing legislation that everyone realised would undermine green belt building restrictions: “The Green Belt is a Labour achievement and we intend to build on it”.
It might actually be more ironic, if someone generally viewed as a purveyor of pretentious twaddle said something profound. Like Rumsfeld and his known unknowns etc.
That is an interesting opinion, but has no effect on whether or not Barthes’ remark might be considered to be ironic. It would only cease to be ironic if everyone shared your opinion of him.
Not for me – I had to look him up.
On the other hand some such as myself would dismiss it as pretentious twaddle because its author was Roland Barthes. The same would go for Jacques Derrida or Michel Foucauld.
Many thanks, Dr. Stock. You are enlightening and engaging on every topic you tackle. I like the irony in your Roland Barthes quotation: “The birth of the reader must be at the expense of the death of the author.” Many would dismiss the quote as pretentious twaddle if it were anonymous, but assume that it must be profound because they know its author to be Roland Barthes.
I wonder if it is inevitable these days that every ghostwriter should be revealed. It wasn’t always that way. I myself used to write fundraising letters over the signature of one or another politician and I thought it would be very crass to ever mention publicly that I was the writer when a couple of the times a letter of mine was quoted somewhere. Then Peggy Noonan decided to announce to the world that she was the author of some speeches of President GHW Bush, especially some much quoted phrases. (I think “a thousand points of light” was one of them.) She got considerable publicity and TV appearances for her revelation, which I suppose was her motive. I was simply aghast. Of course we all know that most politicians don’t write their own speeches or books, but I thought there was a tacit agreement that the speechwriter was being paid for a service that included letting people assume that the speech *was* written by the person who gave it, or at least waited until it became irrelevant. I still feel this way.
I wonder if it is inevitable these days that every ghostwriter should be revealed. It wasn’t always that way. I myself used to write fundraising letters over the signature of one or another politician and I thought it would be very crass to ever mention publicly that I was the writer when a couple of the times a letter of mine was quoted somewhere. Then Peggy Noonan decided to announce to the world that she was the author of some speeches of President GHW Bush, especially some much quoted phrases. (I think “a thousand points of light” was one of them.) She got considerable publicity and TV appearances for her revelation, which I suppose was her motive. I was simply aghast. Of course we all know that most politicians don’t write their own speeches or books, but I thought there was a tacit agreement that the speechwriter was being paid for a service that included letting people assume that the speech *was* written by the person who gave it, or at least waited until it became irrelevant. I still feel this way.
One of the rules for authors is to not lean over the readers shoulder and explain things. In this case he leaans over Harry’s shoulder. Anyone interested in what Harry thinks would be better served by a biography with quotes. It would still be ridiculed.
One of the rules for authors is to not lean over the readers shoulder and explain things. In this case he leaans over Harry’s shoulder. Anyone interested in what Harry thinks would be better served by a biography with quotes. It would still be ridiculed.
I thought that only footballers needed ghostwriters
Not so much footballers as brainless twerps.
That’s no way to talk about my heroes
That’s no way to talk about my heroes
Not so much footballers as brainless twerps.
I thought that only footballers needed ghostwriters
Moehringer was the ghostwriter of 2 excellent biographies – Open and Shoe Dog and I hope he does more. Why do we have to overthink this because the whining Sussex is now involved.
Moehringer was the ghostwriter of 2 excellent biographies – Open and Shoe Dog and I hope he does more. Why do we have to overthink this because the whining Sussex is now involved.
Whatever happened to the old but decidedly honest practice of having the authorship honestly clarified: “Spare, as told to J.R. Moehringer”?
Whatever happened to the old but decidedly honest practice of having the authorship honestly clarified: “Spare, as told to J.R. Moehringer”?
The white shirt that he is wearing in the photo tells one all that we need to know…
Is KS’s splendid line: “In order to have literary heroes, Harry would have had to read some books” similarly revealing?
Is KS’s splendid line: “In order to have literary heroes, Harry would have had to read some books” similarly revealing?
The white shirt that he is wearing in the photo tells one all that we need to know…
May God save Prince Harry.
May God save J.R. from being tempted into falsehood. Four books encompasses a long time of indentured servitude, rather like a literary knighthood. Is J.R. noble enough to last that long?
May God save Prince Harry.
May God save J.R. from being tempted into falsehood. Four books encompasses a long time of indentured servitude, rather like a literary knighthood. Is J.R. noble enough to last that long?
“In order to have literary heroes, Harry would have had to read some books.”
LOL
“In order to have literary heroes, Harry would have had to read some books.”
LOL
Old Foot Guards joke… ” Man goes to surgeon for a brain transplant… Surgeon tells him that there are three available brains… a £50, OOOO brain, a £75000 brain and a £250,000 brain… namely, an Oxford don’s, a Harvard philosopher, and the most expensive a Household Cavalry Officer’s. The man asks, ‘ why on earth is the Household Cavalry Officers so expensive?” to which the surgeon replies ” It’s never ever been used”…..
Far too long and get to the point
Far too long and get to the point