I’m sorry Matt but “The Narrative” is getting a bit tired. Everybody understands the Script here. The Establishment fears DeSantis more than Trump so it will use Media Narrators to repeat a Script throughout the Media about DeSantis alleged downward trajectory. DeSantis is “lacking charisma” or “losing to Disney” or “imposing a Don’t Say Gay Law” or “Banning Books.”
Nobody with a pulse believes this. DeSantis lacks Charisma compared to who? Biden, Harris, Buttiegeig. Really? So Disney decided not to move one project out of California and this is considered a win for King Gavin and an L for DeSantis? That for once somebody didn’t flee California for Florida. Just retaining present business is now a W. That’s how lopsided this game has become.
We get it. You want Trump to win the primary and will pump him up in the primary, just to tear him down in the general. In the meantime RFK Jr will be labeled a fringe “extremist” next to the the highly competent and inspirational President, Joseph R Biden who I think we all can safely assume you actually plan to promote.
The reality is that the overwhelming majority of Trump voters like DeSantis and vice versa and will DEFINITELY vote for whichever candidate is the nominee. It is interesting that the Party deemed a “Threat to Democracy” is the only party participating in Democracy. But then again its possible our Progressive friends have a concocted a new, more enlightened and inclusive form of “Democracy” that nobody has heard about yet. The March of Progress continues!
And here’s my contribution to the wide, wide world of conspiracy theories: I tried to upvote your comment but the system won’t let me. Those darned Biden operatives!
“The Establishment fears DeSantis more than Trump.” Do you ever read what they write? The reason I have become skeptical of DeSantis of late is because they have decided to go all in on him and with his quick backing down on his Ukraine position, I am not sure he can stand up to them. Seriously, National Review and The Bulwark are 24/7 “DeSantis good, Trump bad”. Then they will occasionally let slip that what they really want is to destroy populism and take us back the Bush/Romney days. I’m not writing him off, but he needs to make the case to voters that he is more in line with them than the Republican donor class. If he does not, than he will be just another Jeb.
Agreed. I suppose all these billionaires giving money to Desantis might be some 4D establishment chess where they hope to discredit Desantis by association with such elites but I think it’s a bit of a stretch.
I think what Matt meant is that people like William Kristin, the Bulwark crowd hope to defeat Trump now and, as a consequence, take the air out of the sails of populism. They’re willing to put up with DeSantis populist talk if he can defeat Trump. Their long -term goal is a return to Romney-ish days.
I think what Matt meant is that people like William Kristin, the Bulwark crowd hope to defeat Trump now and, as a consequence, take the air out of the sails of populism. They’re willing to put up with DeSantis populist talk if he can defeat Trump. Their long -term goal is a return to Romney-ish days.
I think his record in Florida counters that. He has been a highly successful governor and passed multiple pieces of legislation, in education especially, which shows he is serious about addressing the rot in institutions.
I think a DeSantis/Scott ticket would be excellent.
The worry with DeSantis is that might be a Scott Walker redo. I hope not. I will look forward to checking out the interview with Musk tonight.
DeSantis is right though, to win the White House one must be able to win independents. Can Trump do that? Just ask yourself how many normie, mostly apolitical, folks who voted against Trump in 2020 would be willing to change their mind about him?
Maybe DeSantis is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. But I doubt it. And let’s face it, it takes a $B to run for President now, so the fact that the wealthy GOPers are opening their wallets is a good thing. They’re not suddenly populists, but they do want to win.
Does Trump have more “charisma,” if you want to call it that? Yes, but unless you subscribe uncritically to the “steal” narrative, he lost to a cognitively-impaired guy campaigning from his rumpus room in 2020, and his proxies underperformed in 2022.
Trump was a political unknown in 2016. He’s got oodles of baggage and ongoing legal problems now. Republicans need candidates who can be post-Trump, and channel a lot of the useful aspects of his populism more effectively and intelligently.
Oh, and the author’s use of the Left’s “Don’t Say Gay” meme says a lot about where he’s coming from.
Absolutely they need candidates who can channel a lot of the useful aspects of his populism more effectively and intelligently. The problem is that is not what seems to be happening. The GOP establishment and donor class are dead set on returning to the neoconservatism of the Regan/Bush/Romney era. I.E. how we got Trump in the first place. Look I would be happy to vote for Brian Kemp or J.D. Vance for president but they are not running. If DeSantis wants to be the guy to move the party forward and not be just another Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio, then he needs to convince the actual voters that is the case. The electability argument also runs into problems because Trump defied the odds one time, lost by only around 30k votes the second time, and McCain and Romney were basically sold on the electability argument and got trounced. What I am trying to say is Ron DeSantis needs to get up on stage and sell people that he really will be different, not just another reason why people went for Trump in the first place.
I don’t disagree with you on the desire of the GOP neocons and elites wanting to return to the past, or that they love “squish” candidates like Mitt or Jeb who can be counted on to cater to their policy preferences (and lose gracefully).
I just don’t think that Trump has the unknown quantity status that helped him in 2016, and I think that the Dems have the ability to tie him up in so much legal dreck that he won’t be able to campaign as effectively, and will turn off people who might have considered him. Yes, DeSantis needs to convince enough Trumpers and independents that he is a credible alternative. But he doesn’t have Trump’s baggage, and seems to have done a pretty convincing job in FL that he supports conservative values AND can win.
I don’t disagree with you on the desire of the GOP neocons and elites wanting to return to the past, or that they love “squish” candidates like Mitt or Jeb who can be counted on to cater to their policy preferences (and lose gracefully).
I just don’t think that Trump has the unknown quantity status that helped him in 2016, and I think that the Dems have the ability to tie him up in so much legal dreck that he won’t be able to campaign as effectively, and will turn off people who might have considered him. Yes, DeSantis needs to convince enough Trumpers and independents that he is a credible alternative. But he doesn’t have Trump’s baggage, and seems to have done a pretty convincing job in FL that he supports conservative values AND can win.
Absolutely they need candidates who can channel a lot of the useful aspects of his populism more effectively and intelligently. The problem is that is not what seems to be happening. The GOP establishment and donor class are dead set on returning to the neoconservatism of the Regan/Bush/Romney era. I.E. how we got Trump in the first place. Look I would be happy to vote for Brian Kemp or J.D. Vance for president but they are not running. If DeSantis wants to be the guy to move the party forward and not be just another Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio, then he needs to convince the actual voters that is the case. The electability argument also runs into problems because Trump defied the odds one time, lost by only around 30k votes the second time, and McCain and Romney were basically sold on the electability argument and got trounced. What I am trying to say is Ron DeSantis needs to get up on stage and sell people that he really will be different, not just another reason why people went for Trump in the first place.
Does Trump have more “charisma,” if you want to call it that? Yes, but unless you subscribe uncritically to the “steal” narrative, he lost to a cognitively-impaired guy campaigning from his rumpus room in 2020, and his proxies underperformed in 2022.
Trump was a political unknown in 2016. He’s got oodles of baggage and ongoing legal problems now. Republicans need candidates who can be post-Trump, and channel a lot of the useful aspects of his populism more effectively and intelligently.
Oh, and the author’s use of the Left’s “Don’t Say Gay” meme says a lot about where he’s coming from.
I think there is a tendency to conflate “Civic Manners” with Establishment. In an ordinary environment one could forgive NR for standing on Principle instead of Utilitarian Pragmatism. They don’t like the “Win at all Costs” Machiavelian tendencies of Trump or the Idea that it’s OK to behave badly because the other side is doing it.
Ultimately you want somebody that can create a stable environment. Trump is a Bull in a China Shop. It’s not irrational to consider him destructive. But so are the forces he’s up against. In the event of two destructive forces, I will take the more competent of the two. Trump is excellent on Foreign Policy and I think even most Liberals would begrudgingly acknowledge that if pressed.
American elections are Binary decisions so while I think it’s silly that NR doesn’t pick the Lesser of Two Evils, I don’t see them as “controlled opposition.” I agree with you that that the Romney/Bush “Republicans” are not worth courting but I don’t see those people running to DeSantis. I see DeSantis just picking up traditional well-mannered conservatives that were simply repulsed by Trump’s destructive tendencies.
Agreed. I suppose all these billionaires giving money to Desantis might be some 4D establishment chess where they hope to discredit Desantis by association with such elites but I think it’s a bit of a stretch.
I think his record in Florida counters that. He has been a highly successful governor and passed multiple pieces of legislation, in education especially, which shows he is serious about addressing the rot in institutions.
I think a DeSantis/Scott ticket would be excellent.
The worry with DeSantis is that might be a Scott Walker redo. I hope not. I will look forward to checking out the interview with Musk tonight.
DeSantis is right though, to win the White House one must be able to win independents. Can Trump do that? Just ask yourself how many normie, mostly apolitical, folks who voted against Trump in 2020 would be willing to change their mind about him?
Maybe DeSantis is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. But I doubt it. And let’s face it, it takes a $B to run for President now, so the fact that the wealthy GOPers are opening their wallets is a good thing. They’re not suddenly populists, but they do want to win.
I think there is a tendency to conflate “Civic Manners” with Establishment. In an ordinary environment one could forgive NR for standing on Principle instead of Utilitarian Pragmatism. They don’t like the “Win at all Costs” Machiavelian tendencies of Trump or the Idea that it’s OK to behave badly because the other side is doing it.
Ultimately you want somebody that can create a stable environment. Trump is a Bull in a China Shop. It’s not irrational to consider him destructive. But so are the forces he’s up against. In the event of two destructive forces, I will take the more competent of the two. Trump is excellent on Foreign Policy and I think even most Liberals would begrudgingly acknowledge that if pressed.
American elections are Binary decisions so while I think it’s silly that NR doesn’t pick the Lesser of Two Evils, I don’t see them as “controlled opposition.” I agree with you that that the Romney/Bush “Republicans” are not worth courting but I don’t see those people running to DeSantis. I see DeSantis just picking up traditional well-mannered conservatives that were simply repulsed by Trump’s destructive tendencies.
And here’s my contribution to the wide, wide world of conspiracy theories: I tried to upvote your comment but the system won’t let me. Those darned Biden operatives!
“The Establishment fears DeSantis more than Trump.” Do you ever read what they write? The reason I have become skeptical of DeSantis of late is because they have decided to go all in on him and with his quick backing down on his Ukraine position, I am not sure he can stand up to them. Seriously, National Review and The Bulwark are 24/7 “DeSantis good, Trump bad”. Then they will occasionally let slip that what they really want is to destroy populism and take us back the Bush/Romney days. I’m not writing him off, but he needs to make the case to voters that he is more in line with them than the Republican donor class. If he does not, than he will be just another Jeb.
I’m sorry Matt but “The Narrative” is getting a bit tired. Everybody understands the Script here. The Establishment fears DeSantis more than Trump so it will use Media Narrators to repeat a Script throughout the Media about DeSantis alleged downward trajectory. DeSantis is “lacking charisma” or “losing to Disney” or “imposing a Don’t Say Gay Law” or “Banning Books.”
Nobody with a pulse believes this. DeSantis lacks Charisma compared to who? Biden, Harris, Buttiegeig. Really? So Disney decided not to move one project out of California and this is considered a win for King Gavin and an L for DeSantis? That for once somebody didn’t flee California for Florida. Just retaining present business is now a W. That’s how lopsided this game has become.
We get it. You want Trump to win the primary and will pump him up in the primary, just to tear him down in the general. In the meantime RFK Jr will be labeled a fringe “extremist” next to the the highly competent and inspirational President, Joseph R Biden who I think we all can safely assume you actually plan to promote.
The reality is that the overwhelming majority of Trump voters like DeSantis and vice versa and will DEFINITELY vote for whichever candidate is the nominee. It is interesting that the Party deemed a “Threat to Democracy” is the only party participating in Democracy. But then again its possible our Progressive friends have a concocted a new, more enlightened and inclusive form of “Democracy” that nobody has heard about yet. The March of Progress continues!
Matt M
11 months ago
As a foreigner and not being plugged in to the US media 24/7 my opinion is doesn’t carry much weight but from what I have seen DeSantis is ten times more charismatic and innovative than Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or Mitt Romney. He avoided lockdowns, he deported those illegal immigrants to Martha’s Vineyard, he took a good punch at Disney for espousing radical leftist ideas. The list goes on.
Whether or not that is enough to get he nomination is another question.
Last edited 11 months ago by Matt M
Matt M
11 months ago
As a foreigner and not being plugged in to the US media 24/7 my opinion is doesn’t carry much weight but from what I have seen DeSantis is ten times more charismatic and innovative than Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or Mitt Romney. He avoided lockdowns, he deported those illegal immigrants to Martha’s Vineyard, he took a good punch at Disney for espousing radical leftist ideas. The list goes on.
Whether or not that is enough to get he nomination is another question.
Last edited 11 months ago by Matt M
Jim Veenbaas
11 months ago
Ugh. Cringeworthy essay. Why would the author call it the Don’t Say Gay bill? Everyone at this site knows it’s the Parental Rights bill. And don’t gas light us with the Disney shutting down construction projects because they don’t like DeSantis. You might want to put it in context – they’re afraid it will lose money.
I like DeSantis, but I’m disappointed he’s pandering to the evangelical right. Florida had a reasonable 15-week abortion law that the vast majority of people would support. He’s now reduced it to six weeks. I’m glad he’s pushing back against woke, but now he’s expanded the Parental Rights law to all grades, which is pandering IMO.
Despite my own reservations about Desantis, I don’t like the tone of this essay. If I had a choice, Vivek Ramaswamy would be the next leader of the GOP.
Jim Veenbaas
11 months ago
Ugh. Cringeworthy essay. Why would the author call it the Don’t Say Gay bill? Everyone at this site knows it’s the Parental Rights bill. And don’t gas light us with the Disney shutting down construction projects because they don’t like DeSantis. You might want to put it in context – they’re afraid it will lose money.
I like DeSantis, but I’m disappointed he’s pandering to the evangelical right. Florida had a reasonable 15-week abortion law that the vast majority of people would support. He’s now reduced it to six weeks. I’m glad he’s pushing back against woke, but now he’s expanded the Parental Rights law to all grades, which is pandering IMO.
Despite my own reservations about Desantis, I don’t like the tone of this essay. If I had a choice, Vivek Ramaswamy would be the next leader of the GOP.
N T
11 months ago
OMG that was dumb.
Pressed for a word count, Teague tapes together a string of whatever he can find, and comes up empty.
I’m only going to discuss two, just as examples:
NAACP: Who cares? Do you think that will have any impact on anything? Where does the NAACP’s president live? Oh, right. Tampa. Where is all the crime against the fringe groups he is complaining about? Not Florida.
Disney: Not only did Disney start the fight, but then Bob Iger doubled-down on a gigantic bluff that was almost immediately countered by his own personnel. The billion-dollar project, also known as Lake Nona? It was never going to happen, once Mr. Iger’s successor and then predecessor, Bob Chapek, the architect of that project, was fired.
Yes, Desantis probably blew it, but at least in the various prediction and betting markets, he was never in the lead. This was always Trump’s race to lose, even though there was a time that many of us were rooting for Desantis.
N T
11 months ago
OMG that was dumb.
Pressed for a word count, Teague tapes together a string of whatever he can find, and comes up empty.
I’m only going to discuss two, just as examples:
NAACP: Who cares? Do you think that will have any impact on anything? Where does the NAACP’s president live? Oh, right. Tampa. Where is all the crime against the fringe groups he is complaining about? Not Florida.
Disney: Not only did Disney start the fight, but then Bob Iger doubled-down on a gigantic bluff that was almost immediately countered by his own personnel. The billion-dollar project, also known as Lake Nona? It was never going to happen, once Mr. Iger’s successor and then predecessor, Bob Chapek, the architect of that project, was fired.
Yes, Desantis probably blew it, but at least in the various prediction and betting markets, he was never in the lead. This was always Trump’s race to lose, even though there was a time that many of us were rooting for Desantis.
DA Johnson
11 months ago
Matthew Teague fails to note that Disney is having financial problems that have nothing to do with Ron DeSantis: its streaming service incurred losses of $1.5 billion in the third quarter of 2022, after which its share price began plummeting. CEO Bob Inger stated in February that around 7000 staff will be laid off this year in an effort to help save $5.5 billion, and the stock price has fallen by 7.9% in just this month.
Yet Mr. Teague uncritically presents Disney’s cancellation of the Lake Nona project and the “2000” jobs it would bring to Florida as a result of Ron DeSantis’ stance—which no doubt is the way Disney wants it to be seen. But the reality is that by cancelling an expensive project out of financial necessity, Disney not only saves money but is able to score a sweet public relations hit against DeSantis.
‘A sweet public relations hit against DeSantis’? Only thanks to lazy left-liberal hacks like Teague here rebroadcasting their lies for them.
DA Johnson
11 months ago
Matthew Teague fails to note that Disney is having financial problems that have nothing to do with Ron DeSantis: its streaming service incurred losses of $1.5 billion in the third quarter of 2022, after which its share price began plummeting. CEO Bob Inger stated in February that around 7000 staff will be laid off this year in an effort to help save $5.5 billion, and the stock price has fallen by 7.9% in just this month.
Yet Mr. Teague uncritically presents Disney’s cancellation of the Lake Nona project and the “2000” jobs it would bring to Florida as a result of Ron DeSantis’ stance—which no doubt is the way Disney wants it to be seen. But the reality is that by cancelling an expensive project out of financial necessity, Disney not only saves money but is able to score a sweet public relations hit against DeSantis.
Katharine Eyre
11 months ago
Whichever GOP candidate succeeds and whoever wins the presidential race next year, one phrase always springs to my mind:
Every country gets the leadership it deserves.
And did Russia ‘deserve’ Stalin? Did China ‘deserve’ Mao’? Did Scotland ‘deserve’ Sturgeon? Romania, Cuaecescu?
Good grief….
Katharine Eyre
11 months ago
Whichever GOP candidate succeeds and whoever wins the presidential race next year, one phrase always springs to my mind:
Every country gets the leadership it deserves.
UnHerd Reader
11 months ago
Why read on after the first sentence? “Just a few months ago, Ron DeSantis held the Republican presidential nomination in his hands”
Breathtakingly wrong – did anyone at all in the USA think this?
Completely hopeless analysis.
Sack him. Kick him off the site. Never commission him again.
UnHerd Reader
11 months ago
Why read on after the first sentence? “Just a few months ago, Ron DeSantis held the Republican presidential nomination in his hands”
Breathtakingly wrong – did anyone at all in the USA think this?
Completely hopeless analysis.
Jeff Butcher
11 months ago
‘Conservative donors recognise that an anti-woke argument carries extra weight coming from a non-white candidate.’
Herein lies much of the problem, it seems to me – and not just in the US but also here in the UK.
It’s the donors and lobbyists who are really voting – you just get to choose whichever one of THEM has already been selected, but by then you’ve already been shafted.
Jeff Butcher
11 months ago
‘Conservative donors recognise that an anti-woke argument carries extra weight coming from a non-white candidate.’
Herein lies much of the problem, it seems to me – and not just in the US but also here in the UK.
It’s the donors and lobbyists who are really voting – you just get to choose whichever one of THEM has already been selected, but by then you’ve already been shafted.
Mike Doyle
11 months ago
Perhaps a ‘Mouse Un-American Activities Committee’?
Mike Doyle
11 months ago
Perhaps a ‘Mouse Un-American Activities Committee’?
Johann Strauss
11 months ago
It seems to me that at this stage of the game it is far too early to know what will happen come primary season next year. The 30 point lead that Trump currently holds over de Santis could evaporate in an instant as de Santis gains more recognition outside of Florida. Plus, who knows how reliable the current polling even is.
Johann Strauss
11 months ago
It seems to me that at this stage of the game it is far too early to know what will happen come primary season next year. The 30 point lead that Trump currently holds over de Santis could evaporate in an instant as de Santis gains more recognition outside of Florida. Plus, who knows how reliable the current polling even is.
D Walsh
11 months ago
It looks to be that Teflon Don will win the nomination, the dogs bark but the circus rolls on
D Walsh
11 months ago
It looks to be that Teflon Don will win the nomination, the dogs bark but the circus rolls on
Nathan Ngumi
11 months ago
It is a toss up. Trump could be derailed by any of the multiple indictments and court cases coming down the pike, which would be most fortuitous for DeSantis.
Unfortunately Trump still has a centrifugal pull on a large chunk of the Right which is a problem for any challenger.
I doubt that. If the Biden junta has him jailed for 400 years, it will only increase Trump’s popularity.
Nathan Ngumi
11 months ago
It is a toss up. Trump could be derailed by any of the multiple indictments and court cases coming down the pike, which would be most fortuitous for DeSantis.
Unfortunately Trump still has a centrifugal pull on a large chunk of the Right which is a problem for any challenger.
Amy Horseman
11 months ago
What a very lazy essay, churning out tropes and pandering to “woke” propaganda. In places, downright false. Disappointed that this was the best Unherd could do on this – to be fair, only mildly interesting – topic. I’m beginning to come here more for the comments than the articles. Unherd readers are – for the most part – an interesting, intellectual and savvy bunch. We should have a new feature… a weekly opinion essay written by a reader!
Amy Horseman
11 months ago
What a very lazy essay, churning out tropes and pandering to “woke” propaganda. In places, downright false. Disappointed that this was the best Unherd could do on this – to be fair, only mildly interesting – topic. I’m beginning to come here more for the comments than the articles. Unherd readers are – for the most part – an interesting, intellectual and savvy bunch. We should have a new feature… a weekly opinion essay written by a reader!
Steve White
11 months ago
DeSantis is a product built by the uniparty. Notice his flip flop on Ukraine. They straightened him out on that, and he got in line quickly. He is not principled.
Steve White
11 months ago
DeSantis is a product built by the uniparty. Notice his flip flop on Ukraine. They straightened him out on that, and he got in line quickly. He is not principled.
Peter Joy
9 months ago
‘…even after all his misdeeds…’
What misdeeds would those be, exactly? Does Mr Teague mistake the BBC, CNN and MSNBC for truth, or the actions of the Justice (sic) Department as honest?
Ye Gods!
Walter Schwager
11 months ago
For us Liberals the most amusing spectacle is to see a fight between the two most prominent and popular Republican presidential candidates. We won’t have to attack RD, Donald will do that with unparalleled enthusiasm and eviscerate him. Highly amusing and politically profitable to see Republican fratricide turn into a blood sport. And all those Republicans claiming that all is well, we all love both Don and Ron, are missing the messianistic dedication of true Trump devotees. Let the bloodbath begin!
Are you looking forward to the vigorous Primaries between the nimble and eloquent Bidenescu and his new rival Senator Kennedy?
Or has Debbie Wasserman-Scultz already fixed them in ‘the Big Guy’s’ favour? Well, if RFK’s looking like too much of a threat, I guess the DNC can tell the CIA to kill him, like they did his father and uncle. Hey, and they can blame the hit on a ‘MAGA extremist’ too: win-win!
Are you looking forward to the vigorous Primaries between the nimble and eloquent Bidenescu and his new rival Senator Kennedy?
Or has Debbie Wasserman-Scultz already fixed them in ‘the Big Guy’s’ favour? Well, if RFK’s looking like too much of a threat, I guess the DNC can tell the CIA to kill him, like they did his father and uncle. Hey, and they can blame the hit on a ‘MAGA extremist’ too: win-win!
Last edited 9 months ago by Peter Joy
Walter Schwager
11 months ago
For us Liberals the most amusing spectacle is to see a fight between the two most prominent and popular Republican presidential candidates. We won’t have to attack RD, Donald will do that with unparalleled enthusiasm and eviscerate him. Highly amusing and politically profitable to see Republican fratricide turn into a blood sport. And all those Republicans claiming that all is well, we all love both Don and Ron, are missing the messianistic dedication of true Trump devotees. Let the bloodbath begin!
I’m sorry Matt but “The Narrative” is getting a bit tired. Everybody understands the Script here. The Establishment fears DeSantis more than Trump so it will use Media Narrators to repeat a Script throughout the Media about DeSantis alleged downward trajectory. DeSantis is “lacking charisma” or “losing to Disney” or “imposing a Don’t Say Gay Law” or “Banning Books.”
Nobody with a pulse believes this. DeSantis lacks Charisma compared to who? Biden, Harris, Buttiegeig. Really? So Disney decided not to move one project out of California and this is considered a win for King Gavin and an L for DeSantis? That for once somebody didn’t flee California for Florida. Just retaining present business is now a W. That’s how lopsided this game has become.
We get it. You want Trump to win the primary and will pump him up in the primary, just to tear him down in the general. In the meantime RFK Jr will be labeled a fringe “extremist” next to the the highly competent and inspirational President, Joseph R Biden who I think we all can safely assume you actually plan to promote.
The reality is that the overwhelming majority of Trump voters like DeSantis and vice versa and will DEFINITELY vote for whichever candidate is the nominee. It is interesting that the Party deemed a “Threat to Democracy” is the only party participating in Democracy. But then again its possible our Progressive friends have a concocted a new, more enlightened and inclusive form of “Democracy” that nobody has heard about yet. The March of Progress continues!
And here’s my contribution to the wide, wide world of conspiracy theories: I tried to upvote your comment but the system won’t let me. Those darned Biden operatives!
Judging by the respective vote-counts, you seem to be part of a very small minority in your extremist pro-regime views.
Judging by the respective vote-counts, you seem to be part of a very small minority in your extremist pro-regime views.
“The Establishment fears DeSantis more than Trump.” Do you ever read what they write? The reason I have become skeptical of DeSantis of late is because they have decided to go all in on him and with his quick backing down on his Ukraine position, I am not sure he can stand up to them. Seriously, National Review and The Bulwark are 24/7 “DeSantis good, Trump bad”. Then they will occasionally let slip that what they really want is to destroy populism and take us back the Bush/Romney days. I’m not writing him off, but he needs to make the case to voters that he is more in line with them than the Republican donor class. If he does not, than he will be just another Jeb.
Agreed. I suppose all these billionaires giving money to Desantis might be some 4D establishment chess where they hope to discredit Desantis by association with such elites but I think it’s a bit of a stretch.
I think what Matt meant is that people like William Kristin, the Bulwark crowd hope to defeat Trump now and, as a consequence, take the air out of the sails of populism. They’re willing to put up with DeSantis populist talk if he can defeat Trump. Their long -term goal is a return to Romney-ish days.
I think what Matt meant is that people like William Kristin, the Bulwark crowd hope to defeat Trump now and, as a consequence, take the air out of the sails of populism. They’re willing to put up with DeSantis populist talk if he can defeat Trump. Their long -term goal is a return to Romney-ish days.
I think his record in Florida counters that. He has been a highly successful governor and passed multiple pieces of legislation, in education especially, which shows he is serious about addressing the rot in institutions.
I think a DeSantis/Scott ticket would be excellent.
The worry with DeSantis is that might be a Scott Walker redo. I hope not. I will look forward to checking out the interview with Musk tonight.
DeSantis is right though, to win the White House one must be able to win independents. Can Trump do that? Just ask yourself how many normie, mostly apolitical, folks who voted against Trump in 2020 would be willing to change their mind about him?
Maybe DeSantis is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. But I doubt it. And let’s face it, it takes a $B to run for President now, so the fact that the wealthy GOPers are opening their wallets is a good thing. They’re not suddenly populists, but they do want to win.
Does Trump have more “charisma,” if you want to call it that? Yes, but unless you subscribe uncritically to the “steal” narrative, he lost to a cognitively-impaired guy campaigning from his rumpus room in 2020, and his proxies underperformed in 2022.
Trump was a political unknown in 2016. He’s got oodles of baggage and ongoing legal problems now. Republicans need candidates who can be post-Trump, and channel a lot of the useful aspects of his populism more effectively and intelligently.
Oh, and the author’s use of the Left’s “Don’t Say Gay” meme says a lot about where he’s coming from.
Absolutely they need candidates who can channel a lot of the useful aspects of his populism more effectively and intelligently. The problem is that is not what seems to be happening. The GOP establishment and donor class are dead set on returning to the neoconservatism of the Regan/Bush/Romney era. I.E. how we got Trump in the first place. Look I would be happy to vote for Brian Kemp or J.D. Vance for president but they are not running. If DeSantis wants to be the guy to move the party forward and not be just another Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio, then he needs to convince the actual voters that is the case. The electability argument also runs into problems because Trump defied the odds one time, lost by only around 30k votes the second time, and McCain and Romney were basically sold on the electability argument and got trounced. What I am trying to say is Ron DeSantis needs to get up on stage and sell people that he really will be different, not just another reason why people went for Trump in the first place.
I don’t disagree with you on the desire of the GOP neocons and elites wanting to return to the past, or that they love “squish” candidates like Mitt or Jeb who can be counted on to cater to their policy preferences (and lose gracefully).
I just don’t think that Trump has the unknown quantity status that helped him in 2016, and I think that the Dems have the ability to tie him up in so much legal dreck that he won’t be able to campaign as effectively, and will turn off people who might have considered him. Yes, DeSantis needs to convince enough Trumpers and independents that he is a credible alternative. But he doesn’t have Trump’s baggage, and seems to have done a pretty convincing job in FL that he supports conservative values AND can win.
I don’t disagree with you on the desire of the GOP neocons and elites wanting to return to the past, or that they love “squish” candidates like Mitt or Jeb who can be counted on to cater to their policy preferences (and lose gracefully).
I just don’t think that Trump has the unknown quantity status that helped him in 2016, and I think that the Dems have the ability to tie him up in so much legal dreck that he won’t be able to campaign as effectively, and will turn off people who might have considered him. Yes, DeSantis needs to convince enough Trumpers and independents that he is a credible alternative. But he doesn’t have Trump’s baggage, and seems to have done a pretty convincing job in FL that he supports conservative values AND can win.
Yes, James, it was irritating and revealing to see how he referred to the law in Florida as if that’s the plain, unprejudiced way of calling it.
Absolutely they need candidates who can channel a lot of the useful aspects of his populism more effectively and intelligently. The problem is that is not what seems to be happening. The GOP establishment and donor class are dead set on returning to the neoconservatism of the Regan/Bush/Romney era. I.E. how we got Trump in the first place. Look I would be happy to vote for Brian Kemp or J.D. Vance for president but they are not running. If DeSantis wants to be the guy to move the party forward and not be just another Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio, then he needs to convince the actual voters that is the case. The electability argument also runs into problems because Trump defied the odds one time, lost by only around 30k votes the second time, and McCain and Romney were basically sold on the electability argument and got trounced. What I am trying to say is Ron DeSantis needs to get up on stage and sell people that he really will be different, not just another reason why people went for Trump in the first place.
Yes, James, it was irritating and revealing to see how he referred to the law in Florida as if that’s the plain, unprejudiced way of calling it.
Does Trump have more “charisma,” if you want to call it that? Yes, but unless you subscribe uncritically to the “steal” narrative, he lost to a cognitively-impaired guy campaigning from his rumpus room in 2020, and his proxies underperformed in 2022.
Trump was a political unknown in 2016. He’s got oodles of baggage and ongoing legal problems now. Republicans need candidates who can be post-Trump, and channel a lot of the useful aspects of his populism more effectively and intelligently.
Oh, and the author’s use of the Left’s “Don’t Say Gay” meme says a lot about where he’s coming from.
I think there is a tendency to conflate “Civic Manners” with Establishment. In an ordinary environment one could forgive NR for standing on Principle instead of Utilitarian Pragmatism. They don’t like the “Win at all Costs” Machiavelian tendencies of Trump or the Idea that it’s OK to behave badly because the other side is doing it.
Ultimately you want somebody that can create a stable environment. Trump is a Bull in a China Shop. It’s not irrational to consider him destructive. But so are the forces he’s up against. In the event of two destructive forces, I will take the more competent of the two. Trump is excellent on Foreign Policy and I think even most Liberals would begrudgingly acknowledge that if pressed.
American elections are Binary decisions so while I think it’s silly that NR doesn’t pick the Lesser of Two Evils, I don’t see them as “controlled opposition.” I agree with you that that the Romney/Bush “Republicans” are not worth courting but I don’t see those people running to DeSantis. I see DeSantis just picking up traditional well-mannered conservatives that were simply repulsed by Trump’s destructive tendencies.
Agreed. I suppose all these billionaires giving money to Desantis might be some 4D establishment chess where they hope to discredit Desantis by association with such elites but I think it’s a bit of a stretch.
I think his record in Florida counters that. He has been a highly successful governor and passed multiple pieces of legislation, in education especially, which shows he is serious about addressing the rot in institutions.
I think a DeSantis/Scott ticket would be excellent.
The worry with DeSantis is that might be a Scott Walker redo. I hope not. I will look forward to checking out the interview with Musk tonight.
DeSantis is right though, to win the White House one must be able to win independents. Can Trump do that? Just ask yourself how many normie, mostly apolitical, folks who voted against Trump in 2020 would be willing to change their mind about him?
Maybe DeSantis is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. But I doubt it. And let’s face it, it takes a $B to run for President now, so the fact that the wealthy GOPers are opening their wallets is a good thing. They’re not suddenly populists, but they do want to win.
I think there is a tendency to conflate “Civic Manners” with Establishment. In an ordinary environment one could forgive NR for standing on Principle instead of Utilitarian Pragmatism. They don’t like the “Win at all Costs” Machiavelian tendencies of Trump or the Idea that it’s OK to behave badly because the other side is doing it.
Ultimately you want somebody that can create a stable environment. Trump is a Bull in a China Shop. It’s not irrational to consider him destructive. But so are the forces he’s up against. In the event of two destructive forces, I will take the more competent of the two. Trump is excellent on Foreign Policy and I think even most Liberals would begrudgingly acknowledge that if pressed.
American elections are Binary decisions so while I think it’s silly that NR doesn’t pick the Lesser of Two Evils, I don’t see them as “controlled opposition.” I agree with you that that the Romney/Bush “Republicans” are not worth courting but I don’t see those people running to DeSantis. I see DeSantis just picking up traditional well-mannered conservatives that were simply repulsed by Trump’s destructive tendencies.
yes
And here’s my contribution to the wide, wide world of conspiracy theories: I tried to upvote your comment but the system won’t let me. Those darned Biden operatives!
“The Establishment fears DeSantis more than Trump.” Do you ever read what they write? The reason I have become skeptical of DeSantis of late is because they have decided to go all in on him and with his quick backing down on his Ukraine position, I am not sure he can stand up to them. Seriously, National Review and The Bulwark are 24/7 “DeSantis good, Trump bad”. Then they will occasionally let slip that what they really want is to destroy populism and take us back the Bush/Romney days. I’m not writing him off, but he needs to make the case to voters that he is more in line with them than the Republican donor class. If he does not, than he will be just another Jeb.
yes
I’m sorry Matt but “The Narrative” is getting a bit tired. Everybody understands the Script here. The Establishment fears DeSantis more than Trump so it will use Media Narrators to repeat a Script throughout the Media about DeSantis alleged downward trajectory. DeSantis is “lacking charisma” or “losing to Disney” or “imposing a Don’t Say Gay Law” or “Banning Books.”
Nobody with a pulse believes this. DeSantis lacks Charisma compared to who? Biden, Harris, Buttiegeig. Really? So Disney decided not to move one project out of California and this is considered a win for King Gavin and an L for DeSantis? That for once somebody didn’t flee California for Florida. Just retaining present business is now a W. That’s how lopsided this game has become.
We get it. You want Trump to win the primary and will pump him up in the primary, just to tear him down in the general. In the meantime RFK Jr will be labeled a fringe “extremist” next to the the highly competent and inspirational President, Joseph R Biden who I think we all can safely assume you actually plan to promote.
The reality is that the overwhelming majority of Trump voters like DeSantis and vice versa and will DEFINITELY vote for whichever candidate is the nominee. It is interesting that the Party deemed a “Threat to Democracy” is the only party participating in Democracy. But then again its possible our Progressive friends have a concocted a new, more enlightened and inclusive form of “Democracy” that nobody has heard about yet. The March of Progress continues!
As a foreigner and not being plugged in to the US media 24/7 my opinion is doesn’t carry much weight but from what I have seen DeSantis is ten times more charismatic and innovative than Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or Mitt Romney. He avoided lockdowns, he deported those illegal immigrants to Martha’s Vineyard, he took a good punch at Disney for espousing radical leftist ideas. The list goes on.
Whether or not that is enough to get he nomination is another question.
As a foreigner and not being plugged in to the US media 24/7 my opinion is doesn’t carry much weight but from what I have seen DeSantis is ten times more charismatic and innovative than Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or Mitt Romney. He avoided lockdowns, he deported those illegal immigrants to Martha’s Vineyard, he took a good punch at Disney for espousing radical leftist ideas. The list goes on.
Whether or not that is enough to get he nomination is another question.
Ugh. Cringeworthy essay. Why would the author call it the Don’t Say Gay bill? Everyone at this site knows it’s the Parental Rights bill. And don’t gas light us with the Disney shutting down construction projects because they don’t like DeSantis. You might want to put it in context – they’re afraid it will lose money.
I like DeSantis, but I’m disappointed he’s pandering to the evangelical right. Florida had a reasonable 15-week abortion law that the vast majority of people would support. He’s now reduced it to six weeks. I’m glad he’s pushing back against woke, but now he’s expanded the Parental Rights law to all grades, which is pandering IMO.
Despite my own reservations about Desantis, I don’t like the tone of this essay. If I had a choice, Vivek Ramaswamy would be the next leader of the GOP.
Ugh. Cringeworthy essay. Why would the author call it the Don’t Say Gay bill? Everyone at this site knows it’s the Parental Rights bill. And don’t gas light us with the Disney shutting down construction projects because they don’t like DeSantis. You might want to put it in context – they’re afraid it will lose money.
I like DeSantis, but I’m disappointed he’s pandering to the evangelical right. Florida had a reasonable 15-week abortion law that the vast majority of people would support. He’s now reduced it to six weeks. I’m glad he’s pushing back against woke, but now he’s expanded the Parental Rights law to all grades, which is pandering IMO.
Despite my own reservations about Desantis, I don’t like the tone of this essay. If I had a choice, Vivek Ramaswamy would be the next leader of the GOP.
OMG that was dumb.
Pressed for a word count, Teague tapes together a string of whatever he can find, and comes up empty.
I’m only going to discuss two, just as examples:
NAACP: Who cares? Do you think that will have any impact on anything? Where does the NAACP’s president live? Oh, right. Tampa. Where is all the crime against the fringe groups he is complaining about? Not Florida.
Disney: Not only did Disney start the fight, but then Bob Iger doubled-down on a gigantic bluff that was almost immediately countered by his own personnel. The billion-dollar project, also known as Lake Nona? It was never going to happen, once Mr. Iger’s successor and then predecessor, Bob Chapek, the architect of that project, was fired.
Yes, Desantis probably blew it, but at least in the various prediction and betting markets, he was never in the lead. This was always Trump’s race to lose, even though there was a time that many of us were rooting for Desantis.
OMG that was dumb.
Pressed for a word count, Teague tapes together a string of whatever he can find, and comes up empty.
I’m only going to discuss two, just as examples:
NAACP: Who cares? Do you think that will have any impact on anything? Where does the NAACP’s president live? Oh, right. Tampa. Where is all the crime against the fringe groups he is complaining about? Not Florida.
Disney: Not only did Disney start the fight, but then Bob Iger doubled-down on a gigantic bluff that was almost immediately countered by his own personnel. The billion-dollar project, also known as Lake Nona? It was never going to happen, once Mr. Iger’s successor and then predecessor, Bob Chapek, the architect of that project, was fired.
Yes, Desantis probably blew it, but at least in the various prediction and betting markets, he was never in the lead. This was always Trump’s race to lose, even though there was a time that many of us were rooting for Desantis.
Matthew Teague fails to note that Disney is having financial problems that have nothing to do with Ron DeSantis: its streaming service incurred losses of $1.5 billion in the third quarter of 2022, after which its share price began plummeting. CEO Bob Inger stated in February that around 7000 staff will be laid off this year in an effort to help save $5.5 billion, and the stock price has fallen by 7.9% in just this month.
Yet Mr. Teague uncritically presents Disney’s cancellation of the Lake Nona project and the “2000” jobs it would bring to Florida as a result of Ron DeSantis’ stance—which no doubt is the way Disney wants it to be seen. But the reality is that by cancelling an expensive project out of financial necessity, Disney not only saves money but is able to score a sweet public relations hit against DeSantis.
‘A sweet public relations hit against DeSantis’? Only thanks to lazy left-liberal hacks like Teague here rebroadcasting their lies for them.
‘A sweet public relations hit against DeSantis’? Only thanks to lazy left-liberal hacks like Teague here rebroadcasting their lies for them.
Matthew Teague fails to note that Disney is having financial problems that have nothing to do with Ron DeSantis: its streaming service incurred losses of $1.5 billion in the third quarter of 2022, after which its share price began plummeting. CEO Bob Inger stated in February that around 7000 staff will be laid off this year in an effort to help save $5.5 billion, and the stock price has fallen by 7.9% in just this month.
Yet Mr. Teague uncritically presents Disney’s cancellation of the Lake Nona project and the “2000” jobs it would bring to Florida as a result of Ron DeSantis’ stance—which no doubt is the way Disney wants it to be seen. But the reality is that by cancelling an expensive project out of financial necessity, Disney not only saves money but is able to score a sweet public relations hit against DeSantis.
Whichever GOP candidate succeeds and whoever wins the presidential race next year, one phrase always springs to my mind:
Every country gets the leadership it deserves.
Did Cambodia deserve Pol Pot?
And did Russia ‘deserve’ Stalin? Did China ‘deserve’ Mao’? Did Scotland ‘deserve’ Sturgeon? Romania, Cuaecescu?
Good grief….
Did Cambodia deserve Pol Pot?
And did Russia ‘deserve’ Stalin? Did China ‘deserve’ Mao’? Did Scotland ‘deserve’ Sturgeon? Romania, Cuaecescu?
Good grief….
Whichever GOP candidate succeeds and whoever wins the presidential race next year, one phrase always springs to my mind:
Every country gets the leadership it deserves.
Why read on after the first sentence? “Just a few months ago, Ron DeSantis held the Republican presidential nomination in his hands”
Breathtakingly wrong – did anyone at all in the USA think this?
Completely hopeless analysis.
Sack him. Kick him off the site. Never commission him again.
Sack him. Kick him off the site. Never commission him again.
Why read on after the first sentence? “Just a few months ago, Ron DeSantis held the Republican presidential nomination in his hands”
Breathtakingly wrong – did anyone at all in the USA think this?
Completely hopeless analysis.
‘Conservative donors recognise that an anti-woke argument carries extra weight coming from a non-white candidate.’
Herein lies much of the problem, it seems to me – and not just in the US but also here in the UK.
It’s the donors and lobbyists who are really voting – you just get to choose whichever one of THEM has already been selected, but by then you’ve already been shafted.
‘Conservative donors recognise that an anti-woke argument carries extra weight coming from a non-white candidate.’
Herein lies much of the problem, it seems to me – and not just in the US but also here in the UK.
It’s the donors and lobbyists who are really voting – you just get to choose whichever one of THEM has already been selected, but by then you’ve already been shafted.
Perhaps a ‘Mouse Un-American Activities Committee’?
Perhaps a ‘Mouse Un-American Activities Committee’?
It seems to me that at this stage of the game it is far too early to know what will happen come primary season next year. The 30 point lead that Trump currently holds over de Santis could evaporate in an instant as de Santis gains more recognition outside of Florida. Plus, who knows how reliable the current polling even is.
It seems to me that at this stage of the game it is far too early to know what will happen come primary season next year. The 30 point lead that Trump currently holds over de Santis could evaporate in an instant as de Santis gains more recognition outside of Florida. Plus, who knows how reliable the current polling even is.
It looks to be that Teflon Don will win the nomination, the dogs bark but the circus rolls on
It looks to be that Teflon Don will win the nomination, the dogs bark but the circus rolls on
It is a toss up. Trump could be derailed by any of the multiple indictments and court cases coming down the pike, which would be most fortuitous for DeSantis.
Unfortunately Trump still has a centrifugal pull on a large chunk of the Right which is a problem for any challenger.
I doubt that. If the Biden junta has him jailed for 400 years, it will only increase Trump’s popularity.
I doubt that. If the Biden junta has him jailed for 400 years, it will only increase Trump’s popularity.
It is a toss up. Trump could be derailed by any of the multiple indictments and court cases coming down the pike, which would be most fortuitous for DeSantis.
Unfortunately Trump still has a centrifugal pull on a large chunk of the Right which is a problem for any challenger.
What a very lazy essay, churning out tropes and pandering to “woke” propaganda. In places, downright false. Disappointed that this was the best Unherd could do on this – to be fair, only mildly interesting – topic. I’m beginning to come here more for the comments than the articles. Unherd readers are – for the most part – an interesting, intellectual and savvy bunch. We should have a new feature… a weekly opinion essay written by a reader!
What a very lazy essay, churning out tropes and pandering to “woke” propaganda. In places, downright false. Disappointed that this was the best Unherd could do on this – to be fair, only mildly interesting – topic. I’m beginning to come here more for the comments than the articles. Unherd readers are – for the most part – an interesting, intellectual and savvy bunch. We should have a new feature… a weekly opinion essay written by a reader!
DeSantis is a product built by the uniparty. Notice his flip flop on Ukraine. They straightened him out on that, and he got in line quickly. He is not principled.
DeSantis is a product built by the uniparty. Notice his flip flop on Ukraine. They straightened him out on that, and he got in line quickly. He is not principled.
‘…even after all his misdeeds…’
What misdeeds would those be, exactly? Does Mr Teague mistake the BBC, CNN and MSNBC for truth, or the actions of the Justice (sic) Department as honest?
Ye Gods!
For us Liberals the most amusing spectacle is to see a fight between the two most prominent and popular Republican presidential candidates. We won’t have to attack RD, Donald will do that with unparalleled enthusiasm and eviscerate him. Highly amusing and politically profitable to see Republican fratricide turn into a blood sport. And all those Republicans claiming that all is well, we all love both Don and Ron, are missing the messianistic dedication of true Trump devotees. Let the bloodbath begin!
Are you looking forward to the vigorous Primaries between the nimble and eloquent Bidenescu and his new rival Senator Kennedy?
Or has Debbie Wasserman-Scultz already fixed them in ‘the Big Guy’s’ favour? Well, if RFK’s looking like too much of a threat, I guess the DNC can tell the CIA to kill him, like they did his father and uncle. Hey, and they can blame the hit on a ‘MAGA extremist’ too: win-win!
Are you looking forward to the vigorous Primaries between the nimble and eloquent Bidenescu and his new rival Senator Kennedy?
Or has Debbie Wasserman-Scultz already fixed them in ‘the Big Guy’s’ favour? Well, if RFK’s looking like too much of a threat, I guess the DNC can tell the CIA to kill him, like they did his father and uncle. Hey, and they can blame the hit on a ‘MAGA extremist’ too: win-win!
For us Liberals the most amusing spectacle is to see a fight between the two most prominent and popular Republican presidential candidates. We won’t have to attack RD, Donald will do that with unparalleled enthusiasm and eviscerate him. Highly amusing and politically profitable to see Republican fratricide turn into a blood sport. And all those Republicans claiming that all is well, we all love both Don and Ron, are missing the messianistic dedication of true Trump devotees. Let the bloodbath begin!