A bit too facile. Belief and understanding are not mutually exclusive. They can, in fact. support each other. Example: my belief that most people are good (if given the opportunity) makes try to understand the situations when and why they are not good.
A bit too facile. Belief and understanding are not mutually exclusive. They can, in fact. support each other. Example: my belief that most people are good (if given the opportunity) makes try to understand the situations when and why they are not good.
Perhaps the problem is that compassion, if it comes into play at all, and it often doesn’t, can only operate at a close-up and personal level. We have always been like this.
Maybe the problem is that with the feminisation of the public space, the expectation is that we all have to be compassionate everywhere, all the time. Healthy outlets for aggression are few and far between. A good friend, an Oncologist is one of the most kind and compassionate doctors I know, calmly spending hours discussing treatments, side effects and realistic prognoses with patients and their families, so that they understand the gravity of their illnesses and make their own decisions.Then he goes home and plays “Destroy all humans” video game.
No. No this sounds like the regressive attempts to revive and justify testosterone-fuelled violence as healthy. Women are also prone to aggressive behaviour.
Our aggressive instincts are based in survival, not war. We should ALWAYS be compassionate. Jeezus, compassion isn’t a “feminine” thing. It’s a human thing. But the powerlessness and helplessness society inflicts upon the vast majority of us means we basically live like emotionally caged animals.
We’re frustrated and are denied some of our most basic free agency by oppressive, increasingly remote elites and legal systems which attempt to regulate our very thoughts.
That’s why we behave aggressively. Not because of any freaking “feminisation” XD
No. No this sounds like the regressive attempts to revive and justify testosterone-fuelled violence as healthy. Women are also prone to aggressive behaviour.
Our aggressive instincts are based in survival, not war. We should ALWAYS be compassionate. Jeezus, compassion isn’t a “feminine” thing. It’s a human thing. But the powerlessness and helplessness society inflicts upon the vast majority of us means we basically live like emotionally caged animals.
We’re frustrated and are denied some of our most basic free agency by oppressive, increasingly remote elites and legal systems which attempt to regulate our very thoughts.
That’s why we behave aggressively. Not because of any freaking “feminisation” XD
On the contrary it seems many people have compassion for the masses they don’t know rather than an individual they do know. “Charity begins at home” often doesn’t. Add to that who among us find it easier to be compassionate towards others but not ourselves.
Compassion requires empathy which we have in short supply. We worship various ideologies, each opposed to some “othering”. We all share a common humanity that gets lost in the debris.
Yes. Once it loses local horizon, compassion becomes a menace. Now, as the female viewpoint, within which compassion is a bastion, has come to play an outsize role in the public sector, we have mercy before justice on virtually all issues, hence the chaos.
Maybe the problem is that with the feminisation of the public space, the expectation is that we all have to be compassionate everywhere, all the time. Healthy outlets for aggression are few and far between. A good friend, an Oncologist is one of the most kind and compassionate doctors I know, calmly spending hours discussing treatments, side effects and realistic prognoses with patients and their families, so that they understand the gravity of their illnesses and make their own decisions.Then he goes home and plays “Destroy all humans” video game.
On the contrary it seems many people have compassion for the masses they don’t know rather than an individual they do know. “Charity begins at home” often doesn’t. Add to that who among us find it easier to be compassionate towards others but not ourselves.
Compassion requires empathy which we have in short supply. We worship various ideologies, each opposed to some “othering”. We all share a common humanity that gets lost in the debris.
Yes. Once it loses local horizon, compassion becomes a menace. Now, as the female viewpoint, within which compassion is a bastion, has come to play an outsize role in the public sector, we have mercy before justice on virtually all issues, hence the chaos.
Perhaps the problem is that compassion, if it comes into play at all, and it often doesn’t, can only operate at a close-up and personal level. We have always been like this.
Some days it really feels like human evolution has slipped into reverse gear.
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
11 months ago
“the Ukraine war became a spectator sportConflict and social media are now inextricably intertwined”
This has been the case since at least the first Gulf War and possibly since Vietnam. I remember the open glee with which members of the news media greeted the prospect of a hot war. There was also the US showing the videos of their smart bombs in action.
I gave up on the news media and moved to Radio 3
News reels from Ww1 and WW2 performed a similar function. Before that, it was war artists. How many paintings are there of battles in the 17th and 18th C?
I grew up then too watching Vietnam on nightly news with Cronkite.
Nah, what is happening today is something completely different, and it’s because of an architecture of many platforms (drone, bodycam, etc) for video capture intertwined with real time Internet transmission over cell networks, made available to everyone (who doesn’t have an LTE smartphone!?) with the rise of complex and highly functional social and sharing networks.
The author nails the zeitgeist with this writing.
Looking back from only say 10-20 years ago to today, where will we be in another 10-20 years, with the addition of volatile combustible catalysts of ChatGPT and evolutions of other forms of generative AI. I shudder to think of the future.
News reels from Ww1 and WW2 performed a similar function. Before that, it was war artists. How many paintings are there of battles in the 17th and 18th C?
I grew up then too watching Vietnam on nightly news with Cronkite.
Nah, what is happening today is something completely different, and it’s because of an architecture of many platforms (drone, bodycam, etc) for video capture intertwined with real time Internet transmission over cell networks, made available to everyone (who doesn’t have an LTE smartphone!?) with the rise of complex and highly functional social and sharing networks.
The author nails the zeitgeist with this writing.
Looking back from only say 10-20 years ago to today, where will we be in another 10-20 years, with the addition of volatile combustible catalysts of ChatGPT and evolutions of other forms of generative AI. I shudder to think of the future.
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
11 months ago
“the Ukraine war became a spectator sportConflict and social media are now inextricably intertwined”
This has been the case since at least the first Gulf War and possibly since Vietnam. I remember the open glee with which members of the news media greeted the prospect of a hot war. There was also the US showing the videos of their smart bombs in action.
I gave up on the news media and moved to Radio 3
Dermot O'Sullivan
11 months ago
An interesting article but it could have left out the US culture wars diversion. Horrific pictures – a type of porn really – are presented with themed music for our entertainment(?) on the internet. They really should be banned.
Dermot O'Sullivan
11 months ago
An interesting article but it could have left out the US culture wars diversion. Horrific pictures – a type of porn really – are presented with themed music for our entertainment(?) on the internet. They really should be banned.
Max Rottersman
11 months ago
Anything photographed, filmed or drawn on the battlefield can become someone’s war-porn. There’s not fundamentally new here. However, the quantity and quality, as the author points out, has reached new levels, and the ability to connect a civilian with the battle through payments is new. Yet not so different than sports betting.
I’ll make a strange argument. The problem isn’t that politics are driving people to take sides on social media. It’s the OPPOSITE. There isn’t enough politics in this war footage. There is no political discussion about what is being seen, only stories like this where those who watch it are described as low-lifes, pretty much.
I saw this joke the other day, “Why are Americans so stupid? Because they kill all the smart ones who go to school.” FB blocked me from posting it in a conversation. I understand the reasons why, up to a point.
When conversation gets increasingly censored what are we left with?
Videos of drones dropping grenades and politicians spouting rah-raw our team on the BBC.
Last edited 11 months ago by Max Rottersman
Max Rottersman
11 months ago
Anything photographed, filmed or drawn on the battlefield can become someone’s war-porn. There’s not fundamentally new here. However, the quantity and quality, as the author points out, has reached new levels, and the ability to connect a civilian with the battle through payments is new. Yet not so different than sports betting.
I’ll make a strange argument. The problem isn’t that politics are driving people to take sides on social media. It’s the OPPOSITE. There isn’t enough politics in this war footage. There is no political discussion about what is being seen, only stories like this where those who watch it are described as low-lifes, pretty much.
I saw this joke the other day, “Why are Americans so stupid? Because they kill all the smart ones who go to school.” FB blocked me from posting it in a conversation. I understand the reasons why, up to a point.
When conversation gets increasingly censored what are we left with?
Videos of drones dropping grenades and politicians spouting rah-raw our team on the BBC.
Last edited 11 months ago by Max Rottersman
Peter B
11 months ago
“With over 100,000 battlefield dead on each side so far”.
The article starts with an assertion for which no evidence is given. Nor indeed any recognition that there is no concensus on these figures today.
I don’t care about Twitter or any of the other sideshow puffery that the article seems to think are important. There’s a real war for the survival of Ukraine going on. If some people want to gamify it or turn it into entertainment – or use it to further their personal ambitions – that’s really rather sad.
You missed the point. I don’t claim to have evidence. All I am saying is that these are disputed and uncertain. In my book, it’s completely unprofessional to attempt to state them as facts.
Yes. The leaked Pentagon documents specified ~17,000 Ukrainian KIA and 80,000 WIA. It also estimates Russian losses as 2.1 to 2.7 times higher, including a much higher proportion of dead.
You missed the point. I don’t claim to have evidence. All I am saying is that these are disputed and uncertain. In my book, it’s completely unprofessional to attempt to state them as facts.
Yes. The leaked Pentagon documents specified ~17,000 Ukrainian KIA and 80,000 WIA. It also estimates Russian losses as 2.1 to 2.7 times higher, including a much higher proportion of dead.
“With over 100,000 battlefield dead on each side so far”.
The article starts with an assertion for which no evidence is given. Nor indeed any recognition that there is no concensus on these figures today.
I don’t care about Twitter or any of the other sideshow puffery that the article seems to think are important. There’s a real war for the survival of Ukraine going on. If some people want to gamify it or turn it into entertainment – or use it to further their personal ambitions – that’s really rather sad.
Last edited 11 months ago by Peter B
polidori redux
11 months ago
Doesn’t put people off war does it? Perhaps we confuse real deaths with the “video” games that we play on our computers.
People generally don’t really want war. Leaders do. Some leaders are accountable to the people, others aren’t. Takes two sides.
polidori redux
11 months ago
Doesn’t put people off war does it? Perhaps we confuse real deaths with the “video” games that we play on our computers.
Frank McCusker
11 months ago
Nothing new here. From the slaughter in the Colosseum to public hangings, war, and violence, has always been a spectator sport. I remember lads settling down with slabs of beer to “watch the [Iraq] war”. At college in Belfast in the 80s, on a Thursday night, exiting the student union, on hearing a bomb go off in Belfast city centre, a bunch of us would hasten towards it, for a laugh / out of nosiness. Any bad motorway accident always has a slow-moving stream of rubberneckers. US air force pilots routinely refer to bomb hits (with casualties) as “bug splats”. All of these long before the internet.
Nothing new here. From the slaughter in the Colosseum to public hangings, war, and violence, has always been a spectator sport. I remember lads settling down with slabs of beer to “watch the [Iraq] war”. At college in Belfast in the 80s, on a Thursday night, exiting the student union, on hearing a bomb go off in Belfast city centre, a bunch of us would hasten towards it, for a laugh / out of nosiness. Any bad motorway accident always has a slow-moving stream of rubberneckers. US air force pilots routinely refer to bomb hits (with casualties) as “bug splats”. All of these long before the internet.
Tony Conrad
11 months ago
Aris has made a very good point for me. Making death a sport aligns us with ancient Rome in which the spectators cheered with glee at the bloody death of people in the Arena. That this can be a hobby brings out the awful nature of those who indulge in it. While I pray for Ukraine to win and repel their invader it is certainly not right to rejoice at the death of your enemy even though it may be in the course of freeing your country from the invader.
Ukraine will not win.
You need to understand that the conflict was started by the CIA and NATO pushing further east as they expressly PROMISED NOT TO DO.
In addition to that, the Ukrainian government and the NAZIS in the Ukrainian army have been
murdering Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
This is not as clear cut as the mainstream media would have you believe.
Rubbish ?
That is the extent of your understanding ?
Get your head out of the Daily Mail and stop
watching TV news.
As for Zelenskyy, that is my opinion.
He’ll be in exile in the US by the end of the year, unless of course the Nazis in the Ukrainian army don’t get to him first.
Rubbish ?
That is the extent of your understanding ?
Get your head out of the Daily Mail and stop
watching TV news.
As for Zelenskyy, that is my opinion.
He’ll be in exile in the US by the end of the year, unless of course the Nazis in the Ukrainian army don’t get to him first.
It’s not NATO, or the EU, pushing east. It’s the former members of the Soviet bloc looking west. They feel they need protection from Putin and, self-evidently, they are correct.
No, they don’t and no they don’t need protection from Russia.
Again, you are conflating modern day Russia
with the old Soviet Union.
Are you just plain stupid or are you in denial ?
Do you really trust the judgement of Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak ?
Do you really think it is wise to mess with a nuclear power like Russia ?
No, they don’t and no they don’t need protection from Russia.
Again, you are conflating modern day Russia
with the old Soviet Union.
Are you just plain stupid or are you in denial ?
Do you really trust the judgement of Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak ?
Do you really think it is wise to mess with a nuclear power like Russia ?
It’s not NATO, or the EU, pushing east. It’s the former members of the Soviet bloc looking west. They feel they need protection from Putin and, self-evidently, they are correct.
Ukraine will not win.
You need to understand that the conflict was started by the CIA and NATO pushing further east as they expressly PROMISED NOT TO DO.
In addition to that, the Ukrainian government and the NAZIS in the Ukrainian army have been
murdering Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
This is not as clear cut as the mainstream media would have you believe.
I got the impression that it’s Americans who are gettings off on watching these horrendous videos.
Tony Conrad
11 months ago
Aris has made a very good point for me. Making death a sport aligns us with ancient Rome in which the spectators cheered with glee at the bloody death of people in the Arena. That this can be a hobby brings out the awful nature of those who indulge in it. While I pray for Ukraine to win and repel their invader it is certainly not right to rejoice at the death of your enemy even though it may be in the course of freeing your country from the invader.
Drew Gibson
11 months ago
The article is saying that anyone can now watch, via a camera on a drone, as the drone kills a soldier. Is it only a matter of time before anyone can buy time on a drone to actually find a soldier and drop a grenade on him? Or is that happening now?
Only if they view a 15 second commercial for some pharmaceutical product.
Drew Gibson
11 months ago
The article is saying that anyone can now watch, via a camera on a drone, as the drone kills a soldier. Is it only a matter of time before anyone can buy time on a drone to actually find a soldier and drop a grenade on him? Or is that happening now?
Charles Stanhope
11 months ago
“MORITURI TE SALUTANT!”
(*Suetonius, De Vita Caesarum: Divus Claudius, 21.6)
(*Suetonius, De Vita Caesarum: Divus Claudius, 21.6)
Clare Knight
11 months ago
I thought it surreal from the start of the war to be actually watching it in real time on TV, kind of voyeristic and not quite right. Like “wanna come over and watch the war tonight, Bring some popcorn”.
I find the actual conventional news coverage of the war somewhat spotty. Those on Twitter might see more details captured by various camera phones. Telegram channels from Ukraine and Russia have a lot more coverage; biased by the recorder. I have no idea what may be appearing on Russian media.
I find the actual conventional news coverage of the war somewhat spotty. Those on Twitter might see more details captured by various camera phones. Telegram channels from Ukraine and Russia have a lot more coverage; biased by the recorder. I have no idea what may be appearing on Russian media.
A lot of the TV coverage is fake anyway, much of it taken from video games.
The MSM cannot be trusted at all.
Clare Knight
11 months ago
I thought it surreal from the start of the war to be actually watching it in real time on TV, kind of voyeristic and not quite right. Like “wanna come over and watch the war tonight, Bring some popcorn”.
martin logan
11 months ago
An unfortunate side effect of the most important issue of our time. Aris rightly points out this has no bearing on the war. But for each side it still seems an indication that they are winning. So there is a propaganda dimension.
Best to read summations of the war from people who know something about war, of which there are many. Galleotti, Kofman and Lee spring to mind.
Fun Fact: Scott Ritter, after predicting Ukraine’s fall every two weeks for well over s year, now tells the Russians, on Russian TV, that NATO is prepared for s long war. Since his income depends on getting something right, he has to check into Reality World once in while.
There are many sources not checked into reality anymore. Most of the mainstream media has no desire for what’s real. Only desperately trying to create something clickable. Red meat has worked well for about a decade now.
There are many sources not checked into reality anymore. Most of the mainstream media has no desire for what’s real. Only desperately trying to create something clickable. Red meat has worked well for about a decade now.
martin logan
11 months ago
An unfortunate side effect of the most important issue of our time. Aris rightly points out this has no bearing on the war. But for each side it still seems an indication that they are winning. So there is a propaganda dimension.
Best to read summations of the war from people who know something about war, of which there are many. Galleotti, Kofman and Lee spring to mind.
Fun Fact: Scott Ritter, after predicting Ukraine’s fall every two weeks for well over s year, now tells the Russians, on Russian TV, that NATO is prepared for s long war. Since his income depends on getting something right, he has to check into Reality World once in while.
martin logan
11 months ago
Actually, I’m somewhat more worried about the incessant call on prime time Russia television to kill all Ukrainians who don’t give up their identity as Ukrainians.
Might have more real world consequences than films of drone strikes.
Come to think of, the consequences actually started a year ago in places like Bucha.
martin logan
11 months ago
Actually, I’m somewhat more worried about the incessant call on prime time Russia television to kill all Ukrainians who don’t give up their identity as Ukrainians.
Might have more real world consequences than films of drone strikes.
Come to think of, the consequences actually started a year ago in places like Bucha.
rob monks
11 months ago
the impact of technology on how war is covered in the media. This piece is very good. The perspective is from a journalist who is a little conservative (from just my viewpoint) but has to be one of the finest war journalists. Thomas Fazi is also very good. However, it would be good for Unherd to have more Marxist viewpoints.
rob monks
11 months ago
the impact of technology on how war is covered in the media. This piece is very good. The perspective is from a journalist who is a little conservative (from just my viewpoint) but has to be one of the finest war journalists. Thomas Fazi is also very good. However, it would be good for Unherd to have more Marxist viewpoints.
stephen archer
11 months ago
It’s interesting reading comments on the war in Ukraine and the profilerance of commenters who go against the European mainstream view that Ukraine is suffering from a vile agressor and that almost anything goes in ridding us Europeans from the scourge and cancer that the USSR and Russia have represented over the last 110 years or so. Two world wars are enough, we don’t need another madman in power slaughtering tens of thousands on European soil. The assumption I’ve made so far is that it’s been Russian trolls at work in these columns, but I’m realising I could be wrong. Could it instead be republicans in the US with no interest or understanding in world politics and neither having an understanding of why the US has become so dominant in the world, at least until recently? There’s a wild speculation for you!
Those that critise the West’s obsession with this conflict are not Russian trolls.
Are you really so simple minded?
We want peace and the ONLY way to get that
Is for this crook Zelenskyy to sit down and negotiate.
Negotiate how much of Ukraine he must surrender to Russia? Seems Ukrainians are not keen on that. Perhaps Russia might withdraw and allow Ukrainians to work out their differences?
Crimea was always Russian, as are the people that live there.
The Ukrainian army has been killing ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
That was just one reason Russia invaded.
The whole conflict was engineered by the west.
It seems that nothing has been learned from the disastrous misadventures in the Middle East.
This will not end well for the war-mongers
in Washington and London.
Crimea was always Russian, as are the people that live there.
The Ukrainian army has been killing ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
That was just one reason Russia invaded.
The whole conflict was engineered by the west.
It seems that nothing has been learned from the disastrous misadventures in the Middle East.
This will not end well for the war-mongers
in Washington and London.
Negotiate how much of Ukraine he must surrender to Russia? Seems Ukrainians are not keen on that. Perhaps Russia might withdraw and allow Ukrainians to work out their differences?
Those that critise the West’s obsession with this conflict are not Russian trolls.
Are you really so simple minded?
We want peace and the ONLY way to get that
Is for this crook Zelenskyy to sit down and negotiate.
stephen archer
11 months ago
It’s interesting reading comments on the war in Ukraine and the profilerance of commenters who go against the European mainstream view that Ukraine is suffering from a vile agressor and that almost anything goes in ridding us Europeans from the scourge and cancer that the USSR and Russia have represented over the last 110 years or so. Two world wars are enough, we don’t need another madman in power slaughtering tens of thousands on European soil. The assumption I’ve made so far is that it’s been Russian trolls at work in these columns, but I’m realising I could be wrong. Could it instead be republicans in the US with no interest or understanding in world politics and neither having an understanding of why the US has become so dominant in the world, at least until recently? There’s a wild speculation for you!
James Kirk
11 months ago
When did Orwell write 1984? There’s a scene where a boat full of refugees is machine gunned in the Med, part of a propaganda film the audience are forced to watch.
Would the longbowmen slaughtering the French at Crécy being watched remotely on magical phones attract the same ghoulish delight? Or remonstrations from what would be today’s remoaners?
Would such close observation of the death camps in WW2 have made any difference to the outcome?
As always, it’s not guns that kill, it’s the bearers who take aim and fire. It’s not the phones, the drones, the media that are sick, it’s the viewers.
UnHerd Reader
11 months ago
Aris, you have become a sick puppy – I have watched your evolution for years on here, others too – maybe it has something to do with the medium – but I do not think so really – it is you allowing the media to do this to you, you lack the understanding of good and evil perhaps – you think ‘Right and Wrong’ – But that is not what this is! This is the battle of ‘Good V.S. Evil’..
”For the avoidance of doubt — or rather, to avoid being accused of pro-Russian sympathies by enthusiasts of this strange and awful new content — I want Ukraine to win the war. I understand that to do that, the Ukrainians will have to kill and keep killing”
WHY???????? WHY?
I have wanted peace since day one. Day 2 I wanted peace, today I want peace. I do not want anymore legless young people – why do you?
This is an Evil, Evil, Evil War – it is Satanic. Your sick article shows how Satanic it is – and also your writing shows you sliding… you think it is just this twisted stuff being normalized by the little drones and Twitter sharing………….
NO! It is you are allowing yourself to let satanic wickedness into your heart to harden, to yeild and give up, because you say – well – everyone is doing it, everyone is normalizing, …it just is…The Romans did not know better – you do. Do not let this stuff rust your soul – fight it…. Call this war evil – call those involved evil, fight it Morally, Ethically, fight for goodness – be a solider for good using your ‘bully pulpit’ be a Moral Crusader – this is an Evil War. Biden and Boris are soldiers of Satan…. keep your soul as unpolluted as you can – and help your readers to do the same – not like this disgusting article where you give up and just let it corrode you.
NO, NO, NO.
It is sick. I would never watch that – your soul is polluted by it. Like sniffing toxic gas pollutes your body – so you turn away – hold your breath till it passes…turn away, and then tell the readers to turn away from that which is evil – and take in that which is Good. You have this platform – you understand that makes you advocate and inform and be one with the side of good or evil, that means you carry a burden of doing right……and not just becoming jaded and cynical….
There is only one good side in this – and it is Peace.
You’re not calling for peace, you’re calling for a Ukrainian surrender. They’re not the same thing at all.
Should the Allies have let the Germans conquer Europe without firing a shot during the Second World War? It would have saved many lives after all, and that appears to be what you’re advocating the Ukrainians should do.
How many times on this board have you spouted the “give me liberty or death” quote on any article regarding American gun laws? Apparently you don’t actually believe it at all, although the Ukrainians clearly do with the fight they’ve put up so far.
You also regularly spout your Christian beliefs, yet mocked the killing of a mentally ill man on the Subway. Maybe it’s your moral compass that has gone askew rather than Aris’?
I’ve long stopped taking notice of anything this guy has to say, under his various guises, since it became clear to me he’s simply trying to create an impression with his use of language than engage in serious discussion.
The language smacks of Google translate. ”sick puppy”? Who uses terms like that? Anonymous pseudonyms add nothing to the credibility of commenters. Time for Unherd to flush out the trolls. This is not about freedom of speech, it’s more to do with subversion.
The language smacks of Google translate. ”sick puppy”? Who uses terms like that? Anonymous pseudonyms add nothing to the credibility of commenters. Time for Unherd to flush out the trolls. This is not about freedom of speech, it’s more to do with subversion.
In this instance yes, I would rather see more Russian soldiers killed than Ukrainian ones as that would imply Ukraine is winning the conflict and can soo return to living in peace. In much the same way I’m glad more German soldiers were killed than Allied ones as it meant that murderous regime was being defeated.
That’s not to say I don’t feel sympathy for those that are killed, especially the young conscripts given little choice but to go to the front lines, but I’m perfectly capable of holding both those opinions at the same time
In this instance yes, I would rather see more Russian soldiers killed than Ukrainian ones as that would imply Ukraine is winning the conflict and can soo return to living in peace. In much the same way I’m glad more German soldiers were killed than Allied ones as it meant that murderous regime was being defeated.
That’s not to say I don’t feel sympathy for those that are killed, especially the young conscripts given little choice but to go to the front lines, but I’m perfectly capable of holding both those opinions at the same time
I’ve long stopped taking notice of anything this guy has to say, under his various guises, since it became clear to me he’s simply trying to create an impression with his use of language than engage in serious discussion.
I think the opposite is the case. He was amongst other things pointing out a disturbing fact in that some were getting a thrill out of watching real killing.
You’re not calling for peace, you’re calling for a Ukrainian surrender. They’re not the same thing at all.
Should the Allies have let the Germans conquer Europe without firing a shot during the Second World War? It would have saved many lives after all, and that appears to be what you’re advocating the Ukrainians should do.
How many times on this board have you spouted the “give me liberty or death” quote on any article regarding American gun laws? Apparently you don’t actually believe it at all, although the Ukrainians clearly do with the fight they’ve put up so far.
You also regularly spout your Christian beliefs, yet mocked the killing of a mentally ill man on the Subway. Maybe it’s your moral compass that has gone askew rather than Aris’?
I think the opposite is the case. He was amongst other things pointing out a disturbing fact in that some were getting a thrill out of watching real killing.
UnHerd Reader
11 months ago
Aris, you have become a sick puppy – I have watched your evolution for years on here, others too – maybe it has something to do with the medium – but I do not think so really – it is you allowing the media to do this to you, you lack the understanding of good and evil perhaps – you think ‘Right and Wrong’ – But that is not what this is! This is the battle of ‘Good V.S. Evil’..
”For the avoidance of doubt — or rather, to avoid being accused of pro-Russian sympathies by enthusiasts of this strange and awful new content — I want Ukraine to win the war. I understand that to do that, the Ukrainians will have to kill and keep killing”
WHY???????? WHY?
I have wanted peace since day one. Day 2 I wanted peace, today I want peace. I do not want anymore legless young people – why do you?
This is an Evil, Evil, Evil War – it is Satanic. Your sick article shows how Satanic it is – and also your writing shows you sliding… you think it is just this twisted stuff being normalized by the little drones and Twitter sharing………….
NO! It is you are allowing yourself to let satanic wickedness into your heart to harden, to yeild and give up, because you say – well – everyone is doing it, everyone is normalizing, …it just is…The Romans did not know better – you do. Do not let this stuff rust your soul – fight it…. Call this war evil – call those involved evil, fight it Morally, Ethically, fight for goodness – be a solider for good using your ‘bully pulpit’ be a Moral Crusader – this is an Evil War. Biden and Boris are soldiers of Satan…. keep your soul as unpolluted as you can – and help your readers to do the same – not like this disgusting article where you give up and just let it corrode you.
NO, NO, NO.
It is sick. I would never watch that – your soul is polluted by it. Like sniffing toxic gas pollutes your body – so you turn away – hold your breath till it passes…turn away, and then tell the readers to turn away from that which is evil – and take in that which is Good. You have this platform – you understand that makes you advocate and inform and be one with the side of good or evil, that means you carry a burden of doing right……and not just becoming jaded and cynical….
There is only one good side in this – and it is Peace.
And if you’re not cheering for the right “team” you’re abused as a troll or a bot.
Ultimately there is only one war between good and evil. The trouble is that most believe they are on the good side.
Indeed – always be wary of anyone with a belief of any sort, whether secular, political or religious.
Well said. Belief starts where understanding stops. End of.
A bit too facile. Belief and understanding are not mutually exclusive. They can, in fact. support each other. Example: my belief that most people are good (if given the opportunity) makes try to understand the situations when and why they are not good.
A bit too facile. Belief and understanding are not mutually exclusive. They can, in fact. support each other. Example: my belief that most people are good (if given the opportunity) makes try to understand the situations when and why they are not good.
Indeed. Look how dangerous democracy has been. Time to ban it!
If you know something for a fact you don’t need to believe.
Well said. Belief starts where understanding stops. End of.
Indeed. Look how dangerous democracy has been. Time to ban it!
If you know something for a fact you don’t need to believe.
Indeed – always be wary of anyone with a belief of any sort, whether secular, political or religious.
only problem is that there is one country that was attacked in 2014 and one that is attacking.
Ultimately there is only one war between good and evil. The trouble is that most believe they are on the good side.
only problem is that there is one country that was attacked in 2014 and one that is attacking.
And if you’re not cheering for the right “team” you’re abused as a troll or a bot.
Some days it really feels like human evolution has slipped into reverse gear.
Perhaps the problem is that compassion, if it comes into play at all, and it often doesn’t, can only operate at a close-up and personal level. We have always been like this.
Maybe the problem is that with the feminisation of the public space, the expectation is that we all have to be compassionate everywhere, all the time. Healthy outlets for aggression are few and far between. A good friend, an Oncologist is one of the most kind and compassionate doctors I know, calmly spending hours discussing treatments, side effects and realistic prognoses with patients and their families, so that they understand the gravity of their illnesses and make their own decisions.Then he goes home and plays “Destroy all humans” video game.
The dominatrix has her hands full for that reason.
No. No this sounds like the regressive attempts to revive and justify testosterone-fuelled violence as healthy. Women are also prone to aggressive behaviour.
Our aggressive instincts are based in survival, not war. We should ALWAYS be compassionate. Jeezus, compassion isn’t a “feminine” thing. It’s a human thing. But the powerlessness and helplessness society inflicts upon the vast majority of us means we basically live like emotionally caged animals.
We’re frustrated and are denied some of our most basic free agency by oppressive, increasingly remote elites and legal systems which attempt to regulate our very thoughts.
That’s why we behave aggressively. Not because of any freaking “feminisation” XD
god bless america and tudor reece
god bless america and tudor reece
The dominatrix has her hands full for that reason.
No. No this sounds like the regressive attempts to revive and justify testosterone-fuelled violence as healthy. Women are also prone to aggressive behaviour.
Our aggressive instincts are based in survival, not war. We should ALWAYS be compassionate. Jeezus, compassion isn’t a “feminine” thing. It’s a human thing. But the powerlessness and helplessness society inflicts upon the vast majority of us means we basically live like emotionally caged animals.
We’re frustrated and are denied some of our most basic free agency by oppressive, increasingly remote elites and legal systems which attempt to regulate our very thoughts.
That’s why we behave aggressively. Not because of any freaking “feminisation” XD
On the contrary it seems many people have compassion for the masses they don’t know rather than an individual they do know. “Charity begins at home” often doesn’t. Add to that who among us find it easier to be compassionate towards others but not ourselves.
Compassion requires empathy which we have in short supply. We worship various ideologies, each opposed to some “othering”. We all share a common humanity that gets lost in the debris.
Yes. Once it loses local horizon, compassion becomes a menace. Now, as the female viewpoint, within which compassion is a bastion, has come to play an outsize role in the public sector, we have mercy before justice on virtually all issues, hence the chaos.
Maybe the problem is that with the feminisation of the public space, the expectation is that we all have to be compassionate everywhere, all the time. Healthy outlets for aggression are few and far between. A good friend, an Oncologist is one of the most kind and compassionate doctors I know, calmly spending hours discussing treatments, side effects and realistic prognoses with patients and their families, so that they understand the gravity of their illnesses and make their own decisions.Then he goes home and plays “Destroy all humans” video game.
On the contrary it seems many people have compassion for the masses they don’t know rather than an individual they do know. “Charity begins at home” often doesn’t. Add to that who among us find it easier to be compassionate towards others but not ourselves.
Compassion requires empathy which we have in short supply. We worship various ideologies, each opposed to some “othering”. We all share a common humanity that gets lost in the debris.
Yes. Once it loses local horizon, compassion becomes a menace. Now, as the female viewpoint, within which compassion is a bastion, has come to play an outsize role in the public sector, we have mercy before justice on virtually all issues, hence the chaos.
Agreed. After reading this article, I have a nauseas feeling in my stomach and an aching heart.
‘Aint that the truth.
Perhaps the problem is that compassion, if it comes into play at all, and it often doesn’t, can only operate at a close-up and personal level. We have always been like this.
Agreed. After reading this article, I have a nauseas feeling in my stomach and an aching heart.
‘Aint that the truth.
Some days it really feels like human evolution has slipped into reverse gear.
“the Ukraine war became a spectator sportConflict and social media are now inextricably intertwined”
This has been the case since at least the first Gulf War and possibly since Vietnam. I remember the open glee with which members of the news media greeted the prospect of a hot war. There was also the US showing the videos of their smart bombs in action.
I gave up on the news media and moved to Radio 3
News reels from Ww1 and WW2 performed a similar function. Before that, it was war artists. How many paintings are there of battles in the 17th and 18th C?
Quite a lot actually. Ever heard of Willem van de Velde the Elder for example?
Not really I think the purpose of the new reels was to keep up morale in what were wars of national survival
Quite a lot actually. Ever heard of Willem van de Velde the Elder for example?
Not really I think the purpose of the new reels was to keep up morale in what were wars of national survival
I grew up then too watching Vietnam on nightly news with Cronkite.
Nah, what is happening today is something completely different, and it’s because of an architecture of many platforms (drone, bodycam, etc) for video capture intertwined with real time Internet transmission over cell networks, made available to everyone (who doesn’t have an LTE smartphone!?) with the rise of complex and highly functional social and sharing networks.
The author nails the zeitgeist with this writing.
Looking back from only say 10-20 years ago to today, where will we be in another 10-20 years, with the addition of volatile combustible catalysts of ChatGPT and evolutions of other forms of generative AI. I shudder to think of the future.
News reels from Ww1 and WW2 performed a similar function. Before that, it was war artists. How many paintings are there of battles in the 17th and 18th C?
I grew up then too watching Vietnam on nightly news with Cronkite.
Nah, what is happening today is something completely different, and it’s because of an architecture of many platforms (drone, bodycam, etc) for video capture intertwined with real time Internet transmission over cell networks, made available to everyone (who doesn’t have an LTE smartphone!?) with the rise of complex and highly functional social and sharing networks.
The author nails the zeitgeist with this writing.
Looking back from only say 10-20 years ago to today, where will we be in another 10-20 years, with the addition of volatile combustible catalysts of ChatGPT and evolutions of other forms of generative AI. I shudder to think of the future.
“the Ukraine war became a spectator sportConflict and social media are now inextricably intertwined”
This has been the case since at least the first Gulf War and possibly since Vietnam. I remember the open glee with which members of the news media greeted the prospect of a hot war. There was also the US showing the videos of their smart bombs in action.
I gave up on the news media and moved to Radio 3
An interesting article but it could have left out the US culture wars diversion. Horrific pictures – a type of porn really – are presented with themed music for our entertainment(?) on the internet. They really should be banned.
An interesting article but it could have left out the US culture wars diversion. Horrific pictures – a type of porn really – are presented with themed music for our entertainment(?) on the internet. They really should be banned.
Anything photographed, filmed or drawn on the battlefield can become someone’s war-porn. There’s not fundamentally new here. However, the quantity and quality, as the author points out, has reached new levels, and the ability to connect a civilian with the battle through payments is new. Yet not so different than sports betting.
I’ll make a strange argument. The problem isn’t that politics are driving people to take sides on social media. It’s the OPPOSITE. There isn’t enough politics in this war footage. There is no political discussion about what is being seen, only stories like this where those who watch it are described as low-lifes, pretty much.
I saw this joke the other day, “Why are Americans so stupid? Because they kill all the smart ones who go to school.” FB blocked me from posting it in a conversation. I understand the reasons why, up to a point.
When conversation gets increasingly censored what are we left with?
Videos of drones dropping grenades and politicians spouting rah-raw our team on the BBC.
Anything photographed, filmed or drawn on the battlefield can become someone’s war-porn. There’s not fundamentally new here. However, the quantity and quality, as the author points out, has reached new levels, and the ability to connect a civilian with the battle through payments is new. Yet not so different than sports betting.
I’ll make a strange argument. The problem isn’t that politics are driving people to take sides on social media. It’s the OPPOSITE. There isn’t enough politics in this war footage. There is no political discussion about what is being seen, only stories like this where those who watch it are described as low-lifes, pretty much.
I saw this joke the other day, “Why are Americans so stupid? Because they kill all the smart ones who go to school.” FB blocked me from posting it in a conversation. I understand the reasons why, up to a point.
When conversation gets increasingly censored what are we left with?
Videos of drones dropping grenades and politicians spouting rah-raw our team on the BBC.
“With over 100,000 battlefield dead on each side so far”.
The article starts with an assertion for which no evidence is given. Nor indeed any recognition that there is no concensus on these figures today.
I don’t care about Twitter or any of the other sideshow puffery that the article seems to think are important. There’s a real war for the survival of Ukraine going on. If some people want to gamify it or turn it into entertainment – or use it to further their personal ambitions – that’s really rather sad.
Have you got evidence that those figures are incorrect? If so provide them otherwise why should we believe you over the article?
You missed the point. I don’t claim to have evidence. All I am saying is that these are disputed and uncertain. In my book, it’s completely unprofessional to attempt to state them as facts.
Does Aris…?
Yes. The leaked Pentagon documents specified ~17,000 Ukrainian KIA and 80,000 WIA. It also estimates Russian losses as 2.1 to 2.7 times higher, including a much higher proportion of dead.
You missed the point. I don’t claim to have evidence. All I am saying is that these are disputed and uncertain. In my book, it’s completely unprofessional to attempt to state them as facts.
Does Aris…?
Yes. The leaked Pentagon documents specified ~17,000 Ukrainian KIA and 80,000 WIA. It also estimates Russian losses as 2.1 to 2.7 times higher, including a much higher proportion of dead.
I agree. The numbers however are just an estimate to make a point which is reasonable.
“Rather sad”? Very sad and shameful
Have you got evidence that those figures are incorrect? If so provide them otherwise why should we believe you over the article?
I agree. The numbers however are just an estimate to make a point which is reasonable.
“Rather sad”? Very sad and shameful
“With over 100,000 battlefield dead on each side so far”.
The article starts with an assertion for which no evidence is given. Nor indeed any recognition that there is no concensus on these figures today.
I don’t care about Twitter or any of the other sideshow puffery that the article seems to think are important. There’s a real war for the survival of Ukraine going on. If some people want to gamify it or turn it into entertainment – or use it to further their personal ambitions – that’s really rather sad.
Doesn’t put people off war does it? Perhaps we confuse real deaths with the “video” games that we play on our computers.
Maybe one leads to the other?
“People”? I would say it doesn’t put men off war.
People generally don’t really want war. Leaders do. Some leaders are accountable to the people, others aren’t. Takes two sides.
Maybe one leads to the other?
“People”? I would say it doesn’t put men off war.
People generally don’t really want war. Leaders do. Some leaders are accountable to the people, others aren’t. Takes two sides.
Doesn’t put people off war does it? Perhaps we confuse real deaths with the “video” games that we play on our computers.
Nothing new here. From the slaughter in the Colosseum to public hangings, war, and violence, has always been a spectator sport. I remember lads settling down with slabs of beer to “watch the [Iraq] war”. At college in Belfast in the 80s, on a Thursday night, exiting the student union, on hearing a bomb go off in Belfast city centre, a bunch of us would hasten towards it, for a laugh / out of nosiness. Any bad motorway accident always has a slow-moving stream of rubberneckers. US air force pilots routinely refer to bomb hits (with casualties) as “bug splats”. All of these long before the internet.
Isn’t this predominately a male sport?
Indeed. “Protecting our women and children”.
Indeed. “Protecting our women and children”.
Isn’t this predominately a male sport?
Nothing new here. From the slaughter in the Colosseum to public hangings, war, and violence, has always been a spectator sport. I remember lads settling down with slabs of beer to “watch the [Iraq] war”. At college in Belfast in the 80s, on a Thursday night, exiting the student union, on hearing a bomb go off in Belfast city centre, a bunch of us would hasten towards it, for a laugh / out of nosiness. Any bad motorway accident always has a slow-moving stream of rubberneckers. US air force pilots routinely refer to bomb hits (with casualties) as “bug splats”. All of these long before the internet.
Aris has made a very good point for me. Making death a sport aligns us with ancient Rome in which the spectators cheered with glee at the bloody death of people in the Arena. That this can be a hobby brings out the awful nature of those who indulge in it. While I pray for Ukraine to win and repel their invader it is certainly not right to rejoice at the death of your enemy even though it may be in the course of freeing your country from the invader.
Ukraine will not win.
You need to understand that the conflict was started by the CIA and NATO pushing further east as they expressly PROMISED NOT TO DO.
In addition to that, the Ukrainian government and the NAZIS in the Ukrainian army have been
murdering Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
This is not as clear cut as the mainstream media would have you believe.
Sorry both sides were shelling the other over the last 8 years, a few dozen dead each year.
Most trolls include the number of dead in the actual 2014 war, about 14,000.
Sadly, not only can’t Russia win this war, it’s likely to implode, and cause even more trouble than in 1991.
An eternal disaster…
Russia will win and Zelenskyy will flee to the USA with the $billons that he has embezzled.
And you know this because…………?
And you know this because…………?
Russia will win and Zelenskyy will flee to the USA with the $billons that he has embezzled.
Rubbish.
Rubbish ?
That is the extent of your understanding ?
Get your head out of the Daily Mail and stop
watching TV news.
As for Zelenskyy, that is my opinion.
He’ll be in exile in the US by the end of the year, unless of course the Nazis in the Ukrainian army don’t get to him first.
Rubbish ?
That is the extent of your understanding ?
Get your head out of the Daily Mail and stop
watching TV news.
As for Zelenskyy, that is my opinion.
He’ll be in exile in the US by the end of the year, unless of course the Nazis in the Ukrainian army don’t get to him first.
It’s not NATO, or the EU, pushing east. It’s the former members of the Soviet bloc looking west. They feel they need protection from Putin and, self-evidently, they are correct.
No, they don’t and no they don’t need protection from Russia.
Again, you are conflating modern day Russia
with the old Soviet Union.
Are you just plain stupid or are you in denial ?
Do you really trust the judgement of Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak ?
Do you really think it is wise to mess with a nuclear power like Russia ?
No, they don’t and no they don’t need protection from Russia.
Again, you are conflating modern day Russia
with the old Soviet Union.
Are you just plain stupid or are you in denial ?
Do you really trust the judgement of Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak ?
Do you really think it is wise to mess with a nuclear power like Russia ?
Sorry both sides were shelling the other over the last 8 years, a few dozen dead each year.
Most trolls include the number of dead in the actual 2014 war, about 14,000.
Sadly, not only can’t Russia win this war, it’s likely to implode, and cause even more trouble than in 1991.
An eternal disaster…
Rubbish.
It’s not NATO, or the EU, pushing east. It’s the former members of the Soviet bloc looking west. They feel they need protection from Putin and, self-evidently, they are correct.
I got the impression that it’s Americans who are gettings off on watching these horrendous videos.
Your good self included Ms Knight?
Well of, the US started it.
The US people in general do not want this war.
Biden is a criminal.
Your good self included Ms Knight?
Well of, the US started it.
The US people in general do not want this war.
Biden is a criminal.
Ukraine will not win.
You need to understand that the conflict was started by the CIA and NATO pushing further east as they expressly PROMISED NOT TO DO.
In addition to that, the Ukrainian government and the NAZIS in the Ukrainian army have been
murdering Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
This is not as clear cut as the mainstream media would have you believe.
I got the impression that it’s Americans who are gettings off on watching these horrendous videos.
Aris has made a very good point for me. Making death a sport aligns us with ancient Rome in which the spectators cheered with glee at the bloody death of people in the Arena. That this can be a hobby brings out the awful nature of those who indulge in it. While I pray for Ukraine to win and repel their invader it is certainly not right to rejoice at the death of your enemy even though it may be in the course of freeing your country from the invader.
The article is saying that anyone can now watch, via a camera on a drone, as the drone kills a soldier. Is it only a matter of time before anyone can buy time on a drone to actually find a soldier and drop a grenade on him? Or is that happening now?
Only if they view a 15 second commercial for some pharmaceutical product.
Only if they view a 15 second commercial for some pharmaceutical product.
The article is saying that anyone can now watch, via a camera on a drone, as the drone kills a soldier. Is it only a matter of time before anyone can buy time on a drone to actually find a soldier and drop a grenade on him? Or is that happening now?
“MORITURI TE SALUTANT!”
(*Suetonius, De Vita Caesarum: Divus Claudius, 21.6)
Show off.
Yes Stanhopeless tends to be a bit of a boring old snob and pedant.
Good to see you are still ticking, if not being very original.
“Stanhopeless” is Liam’s expression as I recall. You must try harder Branagan old chap.
Good to see you are still ticking, if not being very original.
“Stanhopeless” is Liam’s expression as I recall. You must try harder Branagan old chap.
Tut tut Ms Knight you really are the classic ‘old scold’.
Yes Stanhopeless tends to be a bit of a boring old snob and pedant.
Tut tut Ms Knight you really are the classic ‘old scold’.
Show off.
“MORITURI TE SALUTANT!”
(*Suetonius, De Vita Caesarum: Divus Claudius, 21.6)
I thought it surreal from the start of the war to be actually watching it in real time on TV, kind of voyeristic and not quite right. Like “wanna come over and watch the war tonight, Bring some popcorn”.
I find the actual conventional news coverage of the war somewhat spotty. Those on Twitter might see more details captured by various camera phones. Telegram channels from Ukraine and Russia have a lot more coverage; biased by the recorder. I have no idea what may be appearing on Russian media.
A lot of the TV coverage is fake anyway, much of it taken from video games.
The MSM cannot be trusted at all.
I find the actual conventional news coverage of the war somewhat spotty. Those on Twitter might see more details captured by various camera phones. Telegram channels from Ukraine and Russia have a lot more coverage; biased by the recorder. I have no idea what may be appearing on Russian media.
A lot of the TV coverage is fake anyway, much of it taken from video games.
The MSM cannot be trusted at all.
I thought it surreal from the start of the war to be actually watching it in real time on TV, kind of voyeristic and not quite right. Like “wanna come over and watch the war tonight, Bring some popcorn”.
An unfortunate side effect of the most important issue of our time. Aris rightly points out this has no bearing on the war. But for each side it still seems an indication that they are winning. So there is a propaganda dimension.
Best to read summations of the war from people who know something about war, of which there are many. Galleotti, Kofman and Lee spring to mind.
Fun Fact: Scott Ritter, after predicting Ukraine’s fall every two weeks for well over s year, now tells the Russians, on Russian TV, that NATO is prepared for s long war. Since his income depends on getting something right, he has to check into Reality World once in while.
There are many sources not checked into reality anymore. Most of the mainstream media has no desire for what’s real. Only desperately trying to create something clickable. Red meat has worked well for about a decade now.
There are many sources not checked into reality anymore. Most of the mainstream media has no desire for what’s real. Only desperately trying to create something clickable. Red meat has worked well for about a decade now.
An unfortunate side effect of the most important issue of our time. Aris rightly points out this has no bearing on the war. But for each side it still seems an indication that they are winning. So there is a propaganda dimension.
Best to read summations of the war from people who know something about war, of which there are many. Galleotti, Kofman and Lee spring to mind.
Fun Fact: Scott Ritter, after predicting Ukraine’s fall every two weeks for well over s year, now tells the Russians, on Russian TV, that NATO is prepared for s long war. Since his income depends on getting something right, he has to check into Reality World once in while.
Actually, I’m somewhat more worried about the incessant call on prime time Russia television to kill all Ukrainians who don’t give up their identity as Ukrainians.
Might have more real world consequences than films of drone strikes.
Come to think of, the consequences actually started a year ago in places like Bucha.
Actually, I’m somewhat more worried about the incessant call on prime time Russia television to kill all Ukrainians who don’t give up their identity as Ukrainians.
Might have more real world consequences than films of drone strikes.
Come to think of, the consequences actually started a year ago in places like Bucha.
the impact of technology on how war is covered in the media. This piece is very good. The perspective is from a journalist who is a little conservative (from just my viewpoint) but has to be one of the finest war journalists. Thomas Fazi is also very good. However, it would be good for Unherd to have more Marxist viewpoints.
the impact of technology on how war is covered in the media. This piece is very good. The perspective is from a journalist who is a little conservative (from just my viewpoint) but has to be one of the finest war journalists. Thomas Fazi is also very good. However, it would be good for Unherd to have more Marxist viewpoints.
It’s interesting reading comments on the war in Ukraine and the profilerance of commenters who go against the European mainstream view that Ukraine is suffering from a vile agressor and that almost anything goes in ridding us Europeans from the scourge and cancer that the USSR and Russia have represented over the last 110 years or so. Two world wars are enough, we don’t need another madman in power slaughtering tens of thousands on European soil. The assumption I’ve made so far is that it’s been Russian trolls at work in these columns, but I’m realising I could be wrong. Could it instead be republicans in the US with no interest or understanding in world politics and neither having an understanding of why the US has become so dominant in the world, at least until recently? There’s a wild speculation for you!
Those that critise the West’s obsession with this conflict are not Russian trolls.
Are you really so simple minded?
We want peace and the ONLY way to get that
Is for this crook Zelenskyy to sit down and negotiate.
Negotiate how much of Ukraine he must surrender to Russia? Seems Ukrainians are not keen on that. Perhaps Russia might withdraw and allow Ukrainians to work out their differences?
Crimea was always Russian, as are the people that live there.
The Ukrainian army has been killing ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
That was just one reason Russia invaded.
The whole conflict was engineered by the west.
It seems that nothing has been learned from the disastrous misadventures in the Middle East.
This will not end well for the war-mongers
in Washington and London.
Crimea was always Russian, as are the people that live there.
The Ukrainian army has been killing ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas since 2014.
That was just one reason Russia invaded.
The whole conflict was engineered by the west.
It seems that nothing has been learned from the disastrous misadventures in the Middle East.
This will not end well for the war-mongers
in Washington and London.
Negotiate how much of Ukraine he must surrender to Russia? Seems Ukrainians are not keen on that. Perhaps Russia might withdraw and allow Ukrainians to work out their differences?
Those that critise the West’s obsession with this conflict are not Russian trolls.
Are you really so simple minded?
We want peace and the ONLY way to get that
Is for this crook Zelenskyy to sit down and negotiate.
It’s interesting reading comments on the war in Ukraine and the profilerance of commenters who go against the European mainstream view that Ukraine is suffering from a vile agressor and that almost anything goes in ridding us Europeans from the scourge and cancer that the USSR and Russia have represented over the last 110 years or so. Two world wars are enough, we don’t need another madman in power slaughtering tens of thousands on European soil. The assumption I’ve made so far is that it’s been Russian trolls at work in these columns, but I’m realising I could be wrong. Could it instead be republicans in the US with no interest or understanding in world politics and neither having an understanding of why the US has become so dominant in the world, at least until recently? There’s a wild speculation for you!
When did Orwell write 1984? There’s a scene where a boat full of refugees is machine gunned in the Med, part of a propaganda film the audience are forced to watch.
Would the longbowmen slaughtering the French at Crécy being watched remotely on magical phones attract the same ghoulish delight? Or remonstrations from what would be today’s remoaners?
Would such close observation of the death camps in WW2 have made any difference to the outcome?
As always, it’s not guns that kill, it’s the bearers who take aim and fire. It’s not the phones, the drones, the media that are sick, it’s the viewers.
Aris, you have become a sick puppy – I have watched your evolution for years on here, others too – maybe it has something to do with the medium – but I do not think so really – it is you allowing the media to do this to you, you lack the understanding of good and evil perhaps – you think ‘Right and Wrong’ – But that is not what this is! This is the battle of ‘Good V.S. Evil’..
”For the avoidance of doubt — or rather, to avoid being accused of pro-Russian sympathies by enthusiasts of this strange and awful new content — I want Ukraine to win the war. I understand that to do that, the Ukrainians will have to kill and keep killing”
WHY???????? WHY?
I have wanted peace since day one. Day 2 I wanted peace, today I want peace. I do not want anymore legless young people – why do you?
This is an Evil, Evil, Evil War – it is Satanic. Your sick article shows how Satanic it is – and also your writing shows you sliding… you think it is just this twisted stuff being normalized by the little drones and Twitter sharing………….
NO! It is you are allowing yourself to let satanic wickedness into your heart to harden, to yeild and give up, because you say – well – everyone is doing it, everyone is normalizing, …it just is…The Romans did not know better – you do. Do not let this stuff rust your soul – fight it…. Call this war evil – call those involved evil, fight it Morally, Ethically, fight for goodness – be a solider for good using your ‘bully pulpit’ be a Moral Crusader – this is an Evil War. Biden and Boris are soldiers of Satan…. keep your soul as unpolluted as you can – and help your readers to do the same – not like this disgusting article where you give up and just let it corrode you.
NO, NO, NO.
It is sick. I would never watch that – your soul is polluted by it. Like sniffing toxic gas pollutes your body – so you turn away – hold your breath till it passes…turn away, and then tell the readers to turn away from that which is evil – and take in that which is Good. You have this platform – you understand that makes you advocate and inform and be one with the side of good or evil, that means you carry a burden of doing right……and not just becoming jaded and cynical….
There is only one good side in this – and it is Peace.
You’re not calling for peace, you’re calling for a Ukrainian surrender. They’re not the same thing at all.
Should the Allies have let the Germans conquer Europe without firing a shot during the Second World War? It would have saved many lives after all, and that appears to be what you’re advocating the Ukrainians should do.
How many times on this board have you spouted the “give me liberty or death” quote on any article regarding American gun laws? Apparently you don’t actually believe it at all, although the Ukrainians clearly do with the fight they’ve put up so far.
You also regularly spout your Christian beliefs, yet mocked the killing of a mentally ill man on the Subway. Maybe it’s your moral compass that has gone askew rather than Aris’?
I’ve long stopped taking notice of anything this guy has to say, under his various guises, since it became clear to me he’s simply trying to create an impression with his use of language than engage in serious discussion.
The language smacks of Google translate. ”sick puppy”? Who uses terms like that? Anonymous pseudonyms add nothing to the credibility of commenters. Time for Unherd to flush out the trolls. This is not about freedom of speech, it’s more to do with subversion.
So, in your version of free speech once again everything is banned that you don’t like or agree with.
News flash-that ain’t free speach
That’s not what I said. Do you have problems comprehending the english language? ain’t ? speach? Are you one of them? Where’s the full stop?
English with a capital E please.
English with a capital E please.
That’s not what I said. Do you have problems comprehending the english language? ain’t ? speach? Are you one of them? Where’s the full stop?
So, in your version of free speech once again everything is banned that you don’t like or agree with.
News flash-that ain’t free speach
The language smacks of Google translate. ”sick puppy”? Who uses terms like that? Anonymous pseudonyms add nothing to the credibility of commenters. Time for Unherd to flush out the trolls. This is not about freedom of speech, it’s more to do with subversion.
You would rather more Russian humans got killed than Ukrainian humans? Why, do you like people being killed?
Watch this, you won’t believe it because you accept all the propaganda, but watch it anyway.
https://www.onenewspage.com/video/20220316/14523981/16-2022-Real-Americas-Voice-News-Interview.htm
In this instance yes, I would rather see more Russian soldiers killed than Ukrainian ones as that would imply Ukraine is winning the conflict and can soo return to living in peace. In much the same way I’m glad more German soldiers were killed than Allied ones as it meant that murderous regime was being defeated.
That’s not to say I don’t feel sympathy for those that are killed, especially the young conscripts given little choice but to go to the front lines, but I’m perfectly capable of holding both those opinions at the same time
In this instance yes, I would rather see more Russian soldiers killed than Ukrainian ones as that would imply Ukraine is winning the conflict and can soo return to living in peace. In much the same way I’m glad more German soldiers were killed than Allied ones as it meant that murderous regime was being defeated.
That’s not to say I don’t feel sympathy for those that are killed, especially the young conscripts given little choice but to go to the front lines, but I’m perfectly capable of holding both those opinions at the same time
I’ve long stopped taking notice of anything this guy has to say, under his various guises, since it became clear to me he’s simply trying to create an impression with his use of language than engage in serious discussion.
You would rather more Russian humans got killed than Ukrainian humans? Why, do you like people being killed?
Watch this, you won’t believe it because you accept all the propaganda, but watch it anyway.
https://www.onenewspage.com/video/20220316/14523981/16-2022-Real-Americas-Voice-News-Interview.htm
I think the opposite is the case. He was amongst other things pointing out a disturbing fact in that some were getting a thrill out of watching real killing.
You’re not calling for peace, you’re calling for a Ukrainian surrender. They’re not the same thing at all.
Should the Allies have let the Germans conquer Europe without firing a shot during the Second World War? It would have saved many lives after all, and that appears to be what you’re advocating the Ukrainians should do.
How many times on this board have you spouted the “give me liberty or death” quote on any article regarding American gun laws? Apparently you don’t actually believe it at all, although the Ukrainians clearly do with the fight they’ve put up so far.
You also regularly spout your Christian beliefs, yet mocked the killing of a mentally ill man on the Subway. Maybe it’s your moral compass that has gone askew rather than Aris’?
I think the opposite is the case. He was amongst other things pointing out a disturbing fact in that some were getting a thrill out of watching real killing.
Aris, you have become a sick puppy – I have watched your evolution for years on here, others too – maybe it has something to do with the medium – but I do not think so really – it is you allowing the media to do this to you, you lack the understanding of good and evil perhaps – you think ‘Right and Wrong’ – But that is not what this is! This is the battle of ‘Good V.S. Evil’..
”For the avoidance of doubt — or rather, to avoid being accused of pro-Russian sympathies by enthusiasts of this strange and awful new content — I want Ukraine to win the war. I understand that to do that, the Ukrainians will have to kill and keep killing”
WHY???????? WHY?
I have wanted peace since day one. Day 2 I wanted peace, today I want peace. I do not want anymore legless young people – why do you?
This is an Evil, Evil, Evil War – it is Satanic. Your sick article shows how Satanic it is – and also your writing shows you sliding… you think it is just this twisted stuff being normalized by the little drones and Twitter sharing………….
NO! It is you are allowing yourself to let satanic wickedness into your heart to harden, to yeild and give up, because you say – well – everyone is doing it, everyone is normalizing, …it just is…The Romans did not know better – you do. Do not let this stuff rust your soul – fight it…. Call this war evil – call those involved evil, fight it Morally, Ethically, fight for goodness – be a solider for good using your ‘bully pulpit’ be a Moral Crusader – this is an Evil War. Biden and Boris are soldiers of Satan…. keep your soul as unpolluted as you can – and help your readers to do the same – not like this disgusting article where you give up and just let it corrode you.
NO, NO, NO.
It is sick. I would never watch that – your soul is polluted by it. Like sniffing toxic gas pollutes your body – so you turn away – hold your breath till it passes…turn away, and then tell the readers to turn away from that which is evil – and take in that which is Good. You have this platform – you understand that makes you advocate and inform and be one with the side of good or evil, that means you carry a burden of doing right……and not just becoming jaded and cynical….
There is only one good side in this – and it is Peace.