Subscribe
Notify of
guest

34 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Nell Clover
Nell Clover
1 year ago

Fulminating over Muslim grooming gangs is a reactionary vote-winner?

Reactionary. Adj. Opposing political or social progress or reform.

Yes, you read it on Unherd. Getting angry about the targeted, racist, mass abuse of young children is to oppose social progress.

Jog on.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Nell Clover

Yes a throwaway line to signal a right on point off view. The idea that people – even left leaning people – might be genuinely concerned about the tendency of those in authority to avoid confronting grooming and rape because of the perpetrator’s ethnicity doesn’t seem to figure here. It is just reactionaries who want to gain votes who are against grooming and rape. The author should properly consider what he writes, but he won’t because he is ideologically driven and protected by the powerful signal of virtue he radiates.

rob drummond
rob drummond
1 year ago
Reply to  Nell Clover

Dismissing ”Muslim grooming gangs is a reactionary vote-winner” is quite shocking in itself frankly. Those gangs (and the others you mentioend) should be hunted down like the villians they are.
I would like to believe The Home Office statements on the Indian Sub-Continent / grooming culture / more Policing – but frankly ”I have heard it all before”

Last edited 1 year ago by rob drummond
R S Foster
R S Foster
1 year ago
Reply to  rob drummond

…not least because their victims are both innocent and vulnerable. Young male thugs of any background or ethnicity are more than happy to dish it out…so deserving of vastly less sympathy when they are on the receiving end. Although I feel some limited sympathy for their grieving mothers…none whatsover for their feral fathers…

R S Foster
R S Foster
1 year ago
Reply to  rob drummond

…not least because their victims are both innocent and vulnerable. Young male thugs of any background or ethnicity are more than happy to dish it out…so deserving of vastly less sympathy when they are on the receiving end. Although I feel some limited sympathy for their grieving mothers…none whatsover for their feral fathers…

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Nell Clover

Yes a throwaway line to signal a right on point off view. The idea that people – even left leaning people – might be genuinely concerned about the tendency of those in authority to avoid confronting grooming and rape because of the perpetrator’s ethnicity doesn’t seem to figure here. It is just reactionaries who want to gain votes who are against grooming and rape. The author should properly consider what he writes, but he won’t because he is ideologically driven and protected by the powerful signal of virtue he radiates.

rob drummond
rob drummond
1 year ago
Reply to  Nell Clover

Dismissing ”Muslim grooming gangs is a reactionary vote-winner” is quite shocking in itself frankly. Those gangs (and the others you mentioend) should be hunted down like the villians they are.
I would like to believe The Home Office statements on the Indian Sub-Continent / grooming culture / more Policing – but frankly ”I have heard it all before”

Last edited 1 year ago by rob drummond
Nell Clover
Nell Clover
1 year ago

Fulminating over Muslim grooming gangs is a reactionary vote-winner?

Reactionary. Adj. Opposing political or social progress or reform.

Yes, you read it on Unherd. Getting angry about the targeted, racist, mass abuse of young children is to oppose social progress.

Jog on.

Elliott Bjorn
Elliott Bjorn
1 year ago

If there was one thing, one huge thing, the pivotal thing…………………………..

Single Mothers……. The end of two parent, mother and father and their biological children, Families.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Yes, as Thomas Sowell observes choices involve trade-offs. This is just the downside of being kinder and more understanding in respect of single mothers.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Single mothers are legitimately blamed for much that is wrong with society.
Growing up in a single-mother family is the worst possible start in life for any child.

Pabs Dabs
Pabs Dabs
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Never fail to be amazed by the reactionary piffle expostulated in the messageboard on this site. Many of the articles are very thoughtful and balanced, the reactions are more often a monstrous caricature.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Pabs Dabs

Whilst I do agree with you that there does tend to be some reactionary comments on this site, none-the-less what Mr Shaw writes is mostly correct – a great deal of research has shown that growing up in a one-parent family is connected with numerous life disadvantages. Of course, if one is brought up in an impoverished environment this only magnifies the diadvantages, and it is possible (probable?) that living in such impoverished, chaotic situations is more likely to create single parents, so tackling the problems may need a two-pronged approach looking at both poverty ansd “culture”.

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Pabs Dabs

Raised by a single mum myself. Many women undervalue the role a good father has on a boy’s upbringing.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Pabs Dabs

Expostulated?

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Pabs Dabs

Whilst I do agree with you that there does tend to be some reactionary comments on this site, none-the-less what Mr Shaw writes is mostly correct – a great deal of research has shown that growing up in a one-parent family is connected with numerous life disadvantages. Of course, if one is brought up in an impoverished environment this only magnifies the diadvantages, and it is possible (probable?) that living in such impoverished, chaotic situations is more likely to create single parents, so tackling the problems may need a two-pronged approach looking at both poverty ansd “culture”.

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Pabs Dabs

Raised by a single mum myself. Many women undervalue the role a good father has on a boy’s upbringing.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Pabs Dabs

Expostulated?

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Perhaps the father who disappears also has something to do with it.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Due to advances in DNA etc it should be possible to hunt down those errant fathers and chastise them accordingly. “Sine Missione”. preferably.

D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago

How would you feel if the state took and kept DNA for every male over 12? There would have to be ID cards as well, to tie each male to his genetic identity.
You OK with that?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Definitely!
It should be mandatory that ‘it’ is taken at birth, with no exceptions whatsoever.

chris sullivan
chris sullivan
1 year ago

it is called responsible procreation – a responsibility NOT a right….

chris sullivan
chris sullivan
1 year ago

it is called responsible procreation – a responsibility NOT a right….

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

Definitely!
It should be mandatory that ‘it’ is taken at birth, with no exceptions whatsoever.

D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago

How would you feel if the state took and kept DNA for every male over 12? There would have to be ID cards as well, to tie each male to his genetic identity.
You OK with that?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Due to advances in DNA etc it should be possible to hunt down those errant fathers and chastise them accordingly. “Sine Missione”. preferably.

Pabs Dabs
Pabs Dabs
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Never fail to be amazed by the reactionary piffle expostulated in the messageboard on this site. Many of the articles are very thoughtful and balanced, the reactions are more often a monstrous caricature.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Perhaps the father who disappears also has something to do with it.

Geraldine Kelley
Geraldine Kelley
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

My exact thought on reading this.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Yes, as Thomas Sowell observes choices involve trade-offs. This is just the downside of being kinder and more understanding in respect of single mothers.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Single mothers are legitimately blamed for much that is wrong with society.
Growing up in a single-mother family is the worst possible start in life for any child.

Geraldine Kelley
Geraldine Kelley
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

My exact thought on reading this.

Elliott Bjorn
Elliott Bjorn
1 year ago

If there was one thing, one huge thing, the pivotal thing…………………………..

Single Mothers……. The end of two parent, mother and father and their biological children, Families.

Matt Hindman
Matt Hindman
1 year ago

I am too jaded these days for much to get to me, but that was just depressing to read.

Elliott Bjorn
Elliott Bjorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt Hindman

I do not really remember this all before Blair opened the borders.

Elliott Bjorn
Elliott Bjorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt Hindman

I do not really remember this all before Blair opened the borders.

Matt Hindman
Matt Hindman
1 year ago

I am too jaded these days for much to get to me, but that was just depressing to read.

Michael Hollick
Michael Hollick
1 year ago

While politicians and the media fulminate over Muslim grooming gangs because it is an obvious, reactionary vote-winner,
Presumably, this article has passed by an editor of some description – in which case I’m pretty stunned that such a crass comment has made it to publication. I really expect better for my subscription. Disgraceful.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

Its called free speech, Bollick…

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

Its called free speech, Bollick…

Michael Hollick
Michael Hollick
1 year ago

While politicians and the media fulminate over Muslim grooming gangs because it is an obvious, reactionary vote-winner,
Presumably, this article has passed by an editor of some description – in which case I’m pretty stunned that such a crass comment has made it to publication. I really expect better for my subscription. Disgraceful.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

I have worked in a couple of major UK cities.
A lot of Londoners from the East end always like to big up their connections to gangster, particularly the “twins” since the think it gives them credibility. They also thinks anyone who works for a living is a mug
In my current abode a lot of my colleagues form ethnic minorities boast about how connected they are to the city’s criminal gangs and what they know about who was responsible for this or the other hit
None of this has anything to do with poverty and everything to do with decay. Since the 60s Hollywood and television have glamourized gangsters and the idea of working hard to in order to get what you want is roundly ridiculed.

Last edited 1 year ago by Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

I have worked in a couple of major UK cities.
A lot of Londoners from the East end always like to big up their connections to gangster, particularly the “twins” since the think it gives them credibility. They also thinks anyone who works for a living is a mug
In my current abode a lot of my colleagues form ethnic minorities boast about how connected they are to the city’s criminal gangs and what they know about who was responsible for this or the other hit
None of this has anything to do with poverty and everything to do with decay. Since the 60s Hollywood and television have glamourized gangsters and the idea of working hard to in order to get what you want is roundly ridiculed.

Last edited 1 year ago by Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

We are rapidly approaching the situation that fermented in Northern Ireland where when citizens find that recourse to the law is so impossible (or indeed expensive in Britain) that an ” alternative route” tempts. I am frankly suprised, given the state of our divorce laws, whereby the legal profession profit from stirring hatred, confrontation and adversity, that the alternative route is not far more of a problem, with lawyers as well as spouses the targets?

As the police become less interested, more corrupt, lazy and dishonest, ” taking the law into one’s own hands” will become a serious problem as an ever increasing number of immigrants from violent countries make themselves available at ever lower prices.
I see a follow on with tobacco smuggling, as ever further restrictions and price rises make tobacco an alternative gold mine to illegal narcotics.

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago

Fukuyama describes the rise of the mafia in southern Italy in similar terms: the corruption and loss of the rule of law forcing people to take their injustices into their own hands, and the subsequent professionalization of gangs with the skills to act for them. (In “Political Order and Decay”.)

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago

Fukuyama describes the rise of the mafia in southern Italy in similar terms: the corruption and loss of the rule of law forcing people to take their injustices into their own hands, and the subsequent professionalization of gangs with the skills to act for them. (In “Political Order and Decay”.)

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeff Cunningham
Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

We are rapidly approaching the situation that fermented in Northern Ireland where when citizens find that recourse to the law is so impossible (or indeed expensive in Britain) that an ” alternative route” tempts. I am frankly suprised, given the state of our divorce laws, whereby the legal profession profit from stirring hatred, confrontation and adversity, that the alternative route is not far more of a problem, with lawyers as well as spouses the targets?

As the police become less interested, more corrupt, lazy and dishonest, ” taking the law into one’s own hands” will become a serious problem as an ever increasing number of immigrants from violent countries make themselves available at ever lower prices.
I see a follow on with tobacco smuggling, as ever further restrictions and price rises make tobacco an alternative gold mine to illegal narcotics.

D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago

But several organised crime sources have told me — all with the same sick, macabre pride — that they have groomed 12, 13 and 14-year-olds to do their dirty work

We’ve been told recently that we should be shocked that the police have been strip-searching children, sometimes without an appropriate adult present, and often Black kids.
Well, if the serious criminals are getting the ‘youngers’ to carry the drugs and the weapons, then don’t the police have a reason?

R S Foster
R S Foster
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

…of course they do, but polite society remain squeamish about accepting that young boys and girls can be both children…and vicious, lying little thugs at one and the same time…and of course, because they are “children”, the Police really don’t have the option of defending their conduct in the court of public opinion…
…nobody would publish a police claim that a teenage girl had form for concealing drugs in her body, and I’m not sure it would be legal to make it…

R S Foster
R S Foster
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

…of course they do, but polite society remain squeamish about accepting that young boys and girls can be both children…and vicious, lying little thugs at one and the same time…and of course, because they are “children”, the Police really don’t have the option of defending their conduct in the court of public opinion…
…nobody would publish a police claim that a teenage girl had form for concealing drugs in her body, and I’m not sure it would be legal to make it…

D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago

But several organised crime sources have told me — all with the same sick, macabre pride — that they have groomed 12, 13 and 14-year-olds to do their dirty work

We’ve been told recently that we should be shocked that the police have been strip-searching children, sometimes without an appropriate adult present, and often Black kids.
Well, if the serious criminals are getting the ‘youngers’ to carry the drugs and the weapons, then don’t the police have a reason?

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

You end by blaming an “anaesthetised society and political class that witnesses such violence before quickly turning the page” but what would you have society and the political class do? You offer no solutions. Based on your article the only possible solution I can find would be the elimination of single mothers.

tim richardson
tim richardson
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Ha!

tim richardson
tim richardson
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Ha!

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

You end by blaming an “anaesthetised society and political class that witnesses such violence before quickly turning the page” but what would you have society and the political class do? You offer no solutions. Based on your article the only possible solution I can find would be the elimination of single mothers.

Gordon Arta
Gordon Arta
1 year ago

Anyone any idea on which planet is this poverty-stricken Britain, suffering from nationwide nihilism, infested with shifty middle classes in its dark underbelly, and an anaesthetised society and political class which don’t want to recognise the mayhem on their streets of shoulder to shoulder hitmen of all ages roaming unhindered?

Gordon Arta
Gordon Arta
1 year ago

Anyone any idea on which planet is this poverty-stricken Britain, suffering from nationwide nihilism, infested with shifty middle classes in its dark underbelly, and an anaesthetised society and political class which don’t want to recognise the mayhem on their streets of shoulder to shoulder hitmen of all ages roaming unhindered?

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago

Could have been interesting but ruined by left-wing idiocies about grooming gangs, Boris and “poverty stricken Britain”.

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago

Could have been interesting but ruined by left-wing idiocies about grooming gangs, Boris and “poverty stricken Britain”.

Peter Shaw
Peter Shaw
1 year ago

When they abolished capital punishment in the UK, the public was re-assured that the murder rate would go down, and those convicted of murder would never be released. More lies.

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Shaw

The murder rate did go down, it’s only recently started climbing again

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Homocides per year – England and Wales 1960-2020 (capital punishment abolished 1965)
1960: 282
1970: 396
1980: 626
1990: 661
2000: 761
2002: 1046 (all time high – includes Harold Shipman’s 172 known victims)
2010: 642
2020: 574

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt M
Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Homocides per year – England and Wales 1960-2020 (capital punishment abolished 1965)
1960: 282
1970: 396
1980: 626
1990: 661
2000: 761
2002: 1046 (all time high – includes Harold Shipman’s 172 known victims)
2010: 642
2020: 574

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt M
Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Shaw

The murder rate did go down, it’s only recently started climbing again

Peter Shaw
Peter Shaw
1 year ago

When they abolished capital punishment in the UK, the public was re-assured that the murder rate would go down, and those convicted of murder would never be released. More lies.

Jürg Gassmann
Jürg Gassmann
1 year ago

Thank you

Jürg Gassmann
Jürg Gassmann
1 year ago

Thank you