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The President's holiday romance (Leon Neal/Getty Images)
At the end of a winding country lane on the shores of Lough Allen in County Leitrim sits a beautiful little cemetery, seemingly all alone in the world. I discovered it while looking for the resting place of my grandad’s long-lost father; a man he’d never known and about whom we still know little. My grandad was raised in a Catholic orphanage in Liverpool. His mother had moved to England sometime before he was born, desperately tried to keep in touch but eventually lost contact after going into service. Such was the world that was.
The cemetery is all that is left of my connection to Leitrim — that and my surname. In this tiny patch of Ireland, far from home, lie various McTigues and McTeigeus, the ancestors who may have given us our name. But that link has been frayed in the churn of emigration and divorce, remarriage and death. Today, the banal truth is that I’m English, not Irish. All my immediate family were born in England. Everything I know and feel has been shaped in England. Like Joe Biden, my closest connection to Ireland is three generations ago. And yet, I’m English and he, as he claims, is Irish.
But don’t just take his word for it. Before the US President arrived in Dublin, the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, said how honoured he was to be welcoming Joe Biden “home” to Ireland; fifth cousins lined up to celebrate this homecoming; over the next few days, every sinew in the Republic will be strained to affirm the President’s Irishness. And why not? Not only is it wise to claim the most powerful man in the world as one of your own, doesn’t it make sense to greenwash those US corporate profits sloshing through Ireland?
Not that Biden is faking it. The President’s grandfather, Ambrose — whose father came to America from from Ireland in the 1850s — drummed it into the young Joe Jnr that he should remember “the best drop of blood in you is Irish”. The worst, you see, was English, which had dripped down through the generations on his father’s side. In his speech in Belfast yesterday, Biden even joked about this somewhat embarrassing revelation.
Just as nations are no more than “imagined communities”, so too are diasporas. What is important is not the purity of Biden’s bloodline — a horrible, fascistic idea — but the strength of belief in the idea of Irish-Americanness. If enough people believe they are Irish-American, then Irish America exists not only in theory but in practice — a living reality with its own power that must be reckoned with in Belfast and London. Irish America votes and feels, and therefore has to be taken seriously. In the Seventies and Eighties, it funded the IRA. Today, it warns Britain there will be no trade deal should it abandon the Northern Irish Protocol.
The real potency of the idea of Irish America is that it shapes not only how America sees Ireland but also how Ireland sees itself. “Biden comes with a vision of Irishness which is really an Irish American vision,” Kieran Cuddihy, an Irish radio presenter, told me. “It is quaint and twee — all comely maidens dancing at the crossroads.”
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Subscribe“Oirish” Joe, steeped in dreamy emerald-green nostalgia, badly needs a history and geography lesson, but given his supposedly deep Irish roots he no doubt thinks he already knows it all – and thus blunders into the fray, insulting allies, trying to exert pressure over the UK/EU’s Irish border negotiations and talking about the GFA as though the DUP were not a part of it.
His total lack of understanding is only likely to embolden Republicans and EU negotiators against the UK Govt and Unionists, once again turning the border into a potential flashpoint for trouble.
Biden’s attitude towards Britain has been clear over his long – far too long – career. But you’d imagine, even in his addled state, he’d go to the trouble of learning the name of the leader of his nation’s most stalwart ally. But no, Joe publicly congratulated “Rashid Sanook” on becoming PM.
Rishi would have won my vote in perpetuity if, in response, he’d thanked President Jim Bowen for his kind words.
His latest gaffe was to congratulate the Irish Rugby team for flattening The Black and Tans – the man is a total liability, yet still gets an armchair ride from the media. Almost as much as previous Oirish democrats like Barragh O’Bamma!
Jealousy exudes from your words like yellaman puke.. get over it!
Jealousy? Really? That’s what you read into my comment? Please explain.
Being called Paddy, and having lived for a while in the US (which I loved), I am well aware of the huge proportion of Americans who claim kinship to the ‘Old country’. However, you quickly realise that most Americans’ understanding of Ireland is one of whimsy and make-believe.
Most Americans seem to conjure an Ireland trapped in a time-warp, imagining the preferred mode of transport is a donkey cart. They completely overlook Ulster’s history, its politics and the depth of the sectarian divide, and thus see the IRA as romantic freedom fighters, pluckily challenging English Redcoats, set in some shamrock-bestrewn, buccolic Irish landscape of their imagination. This ignorance and faux-nostalgia has real-world consequences.
Even in the 1990s you could find NORAID collection buckets in “Irish” bars in most US cities.
It was only after 9/11 that most Americans woke up to the idea that funding terrorists (even if you romantically called them “Freedom Fighters”) actually caused death and misery – and the donations fell to a trickle.
Biden has a long history of associating himself with the Republican cause – not out of any desire to see a united Ireland, or due to any real conviction, but simply because it played well with those of his Pennsylvania base who claimed Oirish heritage.
Jealousy? Really? That’s what you read into my comment? Please explain.
Being called Paddy, and having lived for a while in the US (which I loved), I am well aware of the huge proportion of Americans who claim kinship to the ‘Old country’. However, you quickly realise that most Americans’ understanding of Ireland is one of whimsy and make-believe.
Most Americans seem to conjure an Ireland trapped in a time-warp, imagining the preferred mode of transport is a donkey cart. They completely overlook Ulster’s history, its politics and the depth of the sectarian divide, and thus see the IRA as romantic freedom fighters, pluckily challenging English Redcoats, set in some shamrock-bestrewn, buccolic Irish landscape of their imagination. This ignorance and faux-nostalgia has real-world consequences.
Even in the 1990s you could find NORAID collection buckets in “Irish” bars in most US cities.
It was only after 9/11 that most Americans woke up to the idea that funding terrorists (even if you romantically called them “Freedom Fighters”) actually caused death and misery – and the donations fell to a trickle.
Biden has a long history of associating himself with the Republican cause – not out of any desire to see a united Ireland, or due to any real conviction, but simply because it played well with those of his Pennsylvania base who claimed Oirish heritage.
Surely in the name of fair play (what a fantastic English/British virtue) you should have pointed out that the Brexiters in position of powers were incompetent and they never had a realistic plan about Brexit (including Northern Ireland). No?!
I would agree that many post-Brexit plans were somewhat nebulous – and often over-optimistic. But actually I wouldn’t include the Irish border issue in that.
The Irish border should never have been an issue in the negotiations at all. It became the chosen battleground for the EU to prove the impossibility of Brexit. Our troubled history with Ireland lent itself perfectly to casting the UK in a poor light if they didn’t give ground when threatened with risking the hard won peace of the GFA.
The sticking point was the threat from the EU and Mr Varadkar. Yet the threat was a chimera. A phantom. It was leverage, pure and simple, and UK Remainers seized on it as the intractable impasse that proved Brexit was impossible.
As David Trimble noted: “It is not true that Brexit in any way threatens the peace process. There is nothing in the Good Friday Agreement which even touches on the normal conduct of business between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Leaving the EU does not affect the agreement because the EU had nothing to do with it. “
Lord Trimble was one of the architects of the GFA, unlike Mr Blair and the various EU Bureaucrats who merely turned up for the photo-op signing. He actually knew what he was talking about – rather than those who used it as a slogan.
The reasons it became an issue were political not practical. It was all about leverage – and nothing more.
It is a matter of record that after the 2016 referendum Taoiseach Enda Kenny convened a joint committee of ROI and UK civil servants to resolve any border related issues. It was only after the arch EU supplicant Leo Varadkar became Taoiseach that the issue arose as he fell in with Brussels plan to use it as leverage in negotiations. It didn’t go unnoticed at the time, as senior Irish diplomat noted “This emotive issue has been used as a weapon by those wanting to thwart Brexit — not least Michel Barnier. But Mr Varadkar, too, has pursued a high-risk strategy which could backfire badly, given that Britain is vital to Irish economic interests.”
What could have threatened the GFA was erecting manned customs posts along the border. Yet NO ONE was advocating that. The WTO adjudicated there was nothing in its rules that would force the UK, the ROI or EU to erect a hard border after Brexit. The UK Govt categorically said it would not do so. The ROI categorically said it would not do so. The EU categorically said it would not do so.. The media talked of a “hard border” as though a new Berlin Wall were about to be erected! This idea that an ‘open border’ meant ‘no border’ was a misreading of the argument.
Certain BBC journalists and pundits went on about it as though there was no (pre-Brexit) border between ROI and NI. The UK and ROI have different currencies, different tax rates, VAT, excise duties, different laws and legal systems.
There was always a border – one which Customs authorities managed by intelligence-led policing of freight, which could have continued after Brexit. Both the head of the UK customs and Irish customs said they could have operated without any customs posts but the issue since became heavily politicised – to no-one’s benefit.
David Davis’s team were planning to negotiate a Canada ++ style FTA – that was also the only offer that the EU themselves had countenanced – Had Theresa May and Olly Robbins not ceded the timetable to Barnier and indicated their own weakness, we might have got further.
Had we gone along with a Canada style deal the EU’s stated position was that “In view of the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland, flexible and imaginative solutions will be required, including with the aim of avoiding a hard border, while respecting the integrity of the Union legal order. In this context, the Union should also recognise existing bilateral agreements and arrangements between the United Kingdom and Ireland which are compatible with EU law.”
At the outset the preferred solution was for a bilateral agreement to be thrashed out between UK and ROI, with the EU giving assent once negotiated. (Despite what nay-sayers insist it was indeed possible to do so. ) If they actually read the damn treaties they’d see that “Only the European Union may legislate and adopt legally binding acts concerning areas within its exclusive competence. EU member states may only do so themselves if empowered by the European Union. Accordingly, it falls to the European Union to decide whether to empower member states to conclude international treaties in fields of exclusive EU competence. “
If a bi-lateral agreement was reached between UK and Dublin then all Brussels would have to do was give it the nod and the issue could have been resolved without erecting a hard, physical border.
All it required was goodwill and a genuine wish to see the matter resolved in a mutually beneficial way.
However, it proved the sticking point that it became because the EU Commission charged M Barnier with the task of using the issue as leverage. To no one’s advantage. Indeed, the endless comments from Remain zealots about Brexit causing a return to the Troubles was fuelling the fire and potentially turning that threat into reality.
The bad faith was not coming the UK Govt at all – they were acting on instruction from the electorate to leave the EU and were abiding by all the rules laid out in treaties for doing so. It was the EU who were using the idea of peace in Ireland as a bargaining chip – yet you seem to support them doing so, simply because you don’t like the idea of Brexit.
I would agree that many post-Brexit plans were somewhat nebulous – and often over-optimistic. But actually I wouldn’t include the Irish border issue in that.
The Irish border should never have been an issue in the negotiations at all. It became the chosen battleground for the EU to prove the impossibility of Brexit. Our troubled history with Ireland lent itself perfectly to casting the UK in a poor light if they didn’t give ground when threatened with risking the hard won peace of the GFA.
The sticking point was the threat from the EU and Mr Varadkar. Yet the threat was a chimera. A phantom. It was leverage, pure and simple, and UK Remainers seized on it as the intractable impasse that proved Brexit was impossible.
As David Trimble noted: “It is not true that Brexit in any way threatens the peace process. There is nothing in the Good Friday Agreement which even touches on the normal conduct of business between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Leaving the EU does not affect the agreement because the EU had nothing to do with it. “
Lord Trimble was one of the architects of the GFA, unlike Mr Blair and the various EU Bureaucrats who merely turned up for the photo-op signing. He actually knew what he was talking about – rather than those who used it as a slogan.
The reasons it became an issue were political not practical. It was all about leverage – and nothing more.
It is a matter of record that after the 2016 referendum Taoiseach Enda Kenny convened a joint committee of ROI and UK civil servants to resolve any border related issues. It was only after the arch EU supplicant Leo Varadkar became Taoiseach that the issue arose as he fell in with Brussels plan to use it as leverage in negotiations. It didn’t go unnoticed at the time, as senior Irish diplomat noted “This emotive issue has been used as a weapon by those wanting to thwart Brexit — not least Michel Barnier. But Mr Varadkar, too, has pursued a high-risk strategy which could backfire badly, given that Britain is vital to Irish economic interests.”
What could have threatened the GFA was erecting manned customs posts along the border. Yet NO ONE was advocating that. The WTO adjudicated there was nothing in its rules that would force the UK, the ROI or EU to erect a hard border after Brexit. The UK Govt categorically said it would not do so. The ROI categorically said it would not do so. The EU categorically said it would not do so.. The media talked of a “hard border” as though a new Berlin Wall were about to be erected! This idea that an ‘open border’ meant ‘no border’ was a misreading of the argument.
Certain BBC journalists and pundits went on about it as though there was no (pre-Brexit) border between ROI and NI. The UK and ROI have different currencies, different tax rates, VAT, excise duties, different laws and legal systems.
There was always a border – one which Customs authorities managed by intelligence-led policing of freight, which could have continued after Brexit. Both the head of the UK customs and Irish customs said they could have operated without any customs posts but the issue since became heavily politicised – to no-one’s benefit.
David Davis’s team were planning to negotiate a Canada ++ style FTA – that was also the only offer that the EU themselves had countenanced – Had Theresa May and Olly Robbins not ceded the timetable to Barnier and indicated their own weakness, we might have got further.
Had we gone along with a Canada style deal the EU’s stated position was that “In view of the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland, flexible and imaginative solutions will be required, including with the aim of avoiding a hard border, while respecting the integrity of the Union legal order. In this context, the Union should also recognise existing bilateral agreements and arrangements between the United Kingdom and Ireland which are compatible with EU law.”
At the outset the preferred solution was for a bilateral agreement to be thrashed out between UK and ROI, with the EU giving assent once negotiated. (Despite what nay-sayers insist it was indeed possible to do so. ) If they actually read the damn treaties they’d see that “Only the European Union may legislate and adopt legally binding acts concerning areas within its exclusive competence. EU member states may only do so themselves if empowered by the European Union. Accordingly, it falls to the European Union to decide whether to empower member states to conclude international treaties in fields of exclusive EU competence. “
If a bi-lateral agreement was reached between UK and Dublin then all Brussels would have to do was give it the nod and the issue could have been resolved without erecting a hard, physical border.
All it required was goodwill and a genuine wish to see the matter resolved in a mutually beneficial way.
However, it proved the sticking point that it became because the EU Commission charged M Barnier with the task of using the issue as leverage. To no one’s advantage. Indeed, the endless comments from Remain zealots about Brexit causing a return to the Troubles was fuelling the fire and potentially turning that threat into reality.
The bad faith was not coming the UK Govt at all – they were acting on instruction from the electorate to leave the EU and were abiding by all the rules laid out in treaties for doing so. It was the EU who were using the idea of peace in Ireland as a bargaining chip – yet you seem to support them doing so, simply because you don’t like the idea of Brexit.
That’s funny, and I’m a democrat. Indeed listening to Biden is cringeworthy and I just can’t do it. It’s not just what he says but how he says it. That voice, jeez! And I worry when he walks, or shuffles. But what’s to be done for dems? I long for an alternative to Biden, but politics being what they are in America only a person with billions of dollars can win, and that narrows the field. America so desperately needs, but probably doesn’t want, a visionary leader.
Jealousy exudes from your words like yellaman puke.. get over it!
Surely in the name of fair play (what a fantastic English/British virtue) you should have pointed out that the Brexiters in position of powers were incompetent and they never had a realistic plan about Brexit (including Northern Ireland). No?!
That’s funny, and I’m a democrat. Indeed listening to Biden is cringeworthy and I just can’t do it. It’s not just what he says but how he says it. That voice, jeez! And I worry when he walks, or shuffles. But what’s to be done for dems? I long for an alternative to Biden, but politics being what they are in America only a person with billions of dollars can win, and that narrows the field. America so desperately needs, but probably doesn’t want, a visionary leader.
“Oirish” Joe, steeped in dreamy emerald-green nostalgia, badly needs a history and geography lesson, but given his supposedly deep Irish roots he no doubt thinks he already knows it all – and thus blunders into the fray, insulting allies, trying to exert pressure over the UK/EU’s Irish border negotiations and talking about the GFA as though the DUP were not a part of it.
His total lack of understanding is only likely to embolden Republicans and EU negotiators against the UK Govt and Unionists, once again turning the border into a potential flashpoint for trouble.
Biden’s attitude towards Britain has been clear over his long – far too long – career. But you’d imagine, even in his addled state, he’d go to the trouble of learning the name of the leader of his nation’s most stalwart ally. But no, Joe publicly congratulated “Rashid Sanook” on becoming PM.
Rishi would have won my vote in perpetuity if, in response, he’d thanked President Jim Bowen for his kind words.
His latest gaffe was to congratulate the Irish Rugby team for flattening The Black and Tans – the man is a total liability, yet still gets an armchair ride from the media. Almost as much as previous Oirish democrats like Barragh O’Bamma!
This powerful “idea” of the homeland is not exclusive to Americans with Irish heritage, as I prefer to call them.
I’ve been living abroad now for 20 years and Britain has changed unimaginably in that time – it is no longer the country I left in 2004. Yet I still feel very British and feel the need to protect and sustain that “home” identity while living (quite happily) in a foreign culture.
You do end up playing up to certain stereotypes and over-egging the pudding: I find myself joking about having a “stiff upper lip” etc. which I don’t think I ever did while I lived in the UK. You kind of become a parody of yourself.
So it is with Irish Americans – this constant straining to cleave to an old identity based in an Ireland that has long since ceased to exist makes them seem absurd. If this group wasn’t quite so powerful on the world stage then we’d just laugh and think it quaint. As it is, I find it worrying that a group with such romantic notions quite divorced from 21st century reality has so much influence.
I recognise this entirely. During my ten years in South Africa I learned the words to Land of Hope and Glory, which was occasionally required at particularly alcohol fuelled rugby club do’s.
But we were both raised in the U.K. What do we make of 3rd generation immigrants, with strong regional British accents, supporting India or Pakistan at cricket matches? How will those identifies play out in the years to come?
It’s a good question. Identity is an incredibly powerful thing. Moreover, it is the most personal of all decisions: laws govern citizenship, but they cannot touch a felt identity.
Connecting to and being proud of your heritage and identity are absolutely fine…but it can go too far. The limit for me is when this foreign identity starts to spill out and influence your public and political behaviour. Which is why I look at Biden & co. with a very critical eye.
A little while ago, there were problems with Turks and Kurds just down the road from me. The Kurds were demonstrating about something or other and there was a confrontation with a number of Turks which got violent. A good number of those involved were Austrian citizens. That is not acceptable. Fine if you are privately involved in conflicts in the “home” country but it shouldn’t then be fought out on the streets of Vienna, costing us millions of € in taxpayer’s money to pay for police presence.
It’s a sticky question: the right to demonstrate is a basic right, and the state only has limited options for giving Austro-Turks a rap on the wrists for being too involved in non-Austrian issues (thus demonstrating the weakness of their bond to their state of citizenship). As I said, the state cannot steer identity. As societies get more diverse and multicultural, there is going to be a lot more of these clashes and you need to find answers on how to deal with them.
But tbh I think this is getting a bit far away from the topic of the article.
If it’s inappropriate for Austrians to involve themselves in Kurd v Turk violence at a cost of millions, wtf is the UK getting involved in a Russian v Ukraine war, costing not millions but billions??
What an utterly ridiculous contribution. The war between Russia and Ukraine is our war – it is a conflict between democracy and tyranny which will define the future of Europe for a long time to come. It is also a war between right and wrong.
Sorry, but that’s complete tosh. It’s a border dispute between two utterly corrupt eastern European states, neiher of which are democratic. And getting back to Biden, the subject of this article, he and his family have been involved in the corrupt machinations in Ukraine for years now. But you don’t want to know anything about that, do you.
And before anyone acuses me of being a Russian bot, let me just say that Putin is also a disgusting piece of authoritarian trash, in power far too long because of powerful, one-sided media organisations, police forces working solely on his behalf, and rigged elections … oh wait, that reminds me of something.
Sorry, but that’s complete tosh. It’s a border dispute between two utterly corrupt eastern European states, neiher of which are democratic. And getting back to Biden, the subject of this article, he and his family have been involved in the corrupt machinations in Ukraine for years now. But you don’t want to know anything about that, do you.
And before anyone acuses me of being a Russian bot, let me just say that Putin is also a disgusting piece of authoritarian trash, in power far too long because of powerful, one-sided media organisations, police forces working solely on his behalf, and rigged elections … oh wait, that reminds me of something.
It cost the UK a great deal to get involved in a war between Germany and Poland. It was the right thing to do.
Was the rise of Hitler and the Second World War the only thing you learned about in school history lessons?
There have been any number of less clear-cut conflicts, don’t you know. You might start doing a little research on Ukraine in WW2, keywords “Bandera” and “Babi Yar”. Go on, I dare you to look those things up.
Was the rise of Hitler and the Second World War the only thing you learned about in school history lessons?
There have been any number of less clear-cut conflicts, don’t you know. You might start doing a little research on Ukraine in WW2, keywords “Bandera” and “Babi Yar”. Go on, I dare you to look those things up.
What an utterly ridiculous contribution. The war between Russia and Ukraine is our war – it is a conflict between democracy and tyranny which will define the future of Europe for a long time to come. It is also a war between right and wrong.
It cost the UK a great deal to get involved in a war between Germany and Poland. It was the right thing to do.
If it’s inappropriate for Austrians to involve themselves in Kurd v Turk violence at a cost of millions, wtf is the UK getting involved in a Russian v Ukraine war, costing not millions but billions??
It’s a good question. Identity is an incredibly powerful thing. Moreover, it is the most personal of all decisions: laws govern citizenship, but they cannot touch a felt identity.
Connecting to and being proud of your heritage and identity are absolutely fine…but it can go too far. The limit for me is when this foreign identity starts to spill out and influence your public and political behaviour. Which is why I look at Biden & co. with a very critical eye.
A little while ago, there were problems with Turks and Kurds just down the road from me. The Kurds were demonstrating about something or other and there was a confrontation with a number of Turks which got violent. A good number of those involved were Austrian citizens. That is not acceptable. Fine if you are privately involved in conflicts in the “home” country but it shouldn’t then be fought out on the streets of Vienna, costing us millions of € in taxpayer’s money to pay for police presence.
It’s a sticky question: the right to demonstrate is a basic right, and the state only has limited options for giving Austro-Turks a rap on the wrists for being too involved in non-Austrian issues (thus demonstrating the weakness of their bond to their state of citizenship). As I said, the state cannot steer identity. As societies get more diverse and multicultural, there is going to be a lot more of these clashes and you need to find answers on how to deal with them.
But tbh I think this is getting a bit far away from the topic of the article.
To me, it’s essentially an inability for them to differentiate between ethnic background and cultural background that is very distinctly American, and causes so many problems when they insist on trying to transfer concepts borne of their culture to others.
Ethnically, I am slightly more Irish than Biden, although it comes to me via a weird mixture of Scottish, irish and Welsh ancestry, and I have an even weirder mixture of bloodlines on the other side of the family (which I won’t waste time detailing here), yet culturally I am English, in spite of being partly raised by my Scottish grandmother.
I might have the gift of a little more Scottish folklore and history woven through the stories my grandmother told me, but I have lived my whole life in England, I was baptised in an English Church, went through an English schooling system, the traditions and quirks and mannerisms I learned were English, my natural accent is perfectly typical mixture of the two locations I’ve spent the majority of my life.
The ethnic details and family history I have might be intellectually interesting to me, and might help me to understand any particular medical risks I might have, but it is just a list of interesting facts for the most part, not a massive part of my identity to be displayed wherever I go, or added as a prefix or suffix to my British nationality. I am British, I am not Irish-Scottish-Welsh-Italian-Arabic-British, or whatever other ethnic groups my distant relatives want to add to such a list, the British part of things is far more important than the results of an ancestry DNA test.
the words cultural and American do not fit in the same sentence… Culture is to America what Polar Bears are to the Kalahari desert.
Hmmm… If you’re British, I’d be a little careful about saying things like that. After all, can anyone name another country, where for 40 years the biggest selling newspaper, featured on page 3..?
‘The Guardian’ has had a far more pernicious influence on British culture that the ‘tits & bums’ of The Sun, it must be said.
Well said! I shall steal that remark.
Well said! I shall steal that remark.
‘The Guardian’ has had a far more pernicious influence on British culture that the ‘tits & bums’ of The Sun, it must be said.
My best friend is American, and we’ve had many discussions about American and British culture over the years. I certainly don’t like certain aspects of their culture and consider them to be superficial, or weird or stupid, and she feels the same about some aspects of British culture (such as our indifference about how terrible our coffee is, and our ability to turn politeness into passive aggressive social weaponry).
We also both love things about these cultures, and have essentially appropriated them for ourselves (she now can’t live without a proper kettle in her house, and gets tea sent over from here so she can get her fix, I have a proper coffee maker, and have a whole notebook stuffed with her family recipes).
Everywhere has a culture of some sort, and they all have silly aspects to them (one of my German friends recently expressed frustration with how British politeness inhibits how well he learns English, because British people often consider it impolite to correct his errors in usage), and most of them also have some great aspects to them (I love German efficiency, and directness, for example).
“.. our ability to turn politeness into passive aggressive social weaponry.”
I totally understand why that frustrates foreigners. So many Brits abroad think that this passive aggressive behaviour dressed as politeness is going to get their message across, but no one gets it apart from us. The British psyche really is a weird place…and often weird without being wonderful.
On the other hand politeness allows us to deal in a civil way,with people we really don’t like..
On the other hand politeness allows us to deal in a civil way,with people we really don’t like..
As far as your German friend is concerned I think it’s partly politeness but it’s also because so many people speak English as a second language that we are used to hearing our native language butchered and simply let it pass over us.
Or, it’s simply a practical choice. I often converse with German colleagues who, for the most part, speak very good English, in the sense they make themselves perfectly well understood. In a business conversation I’m interested in the message, not all the precise words or phrases used to deliver it. Striving to correct every single little grammatical error or unconventional choice of vocabulary just seems unnecessary. Their English is a lot better than my German, anyway … and it’s not like all English people speak perfect English the whole time!
Funny.
Or, it’s simply a practical choice. I often converse with German colleagues who, for the most part, speak very good English, in the sense they make themselves perfectly well understood. In a business conversation I’m interested in the message, not all the precise words or phrases used to deliver it. Striving to correct every single little grammatical error or unconventional choice of vocabulary just seems unnecessary. Their English is a lot better than my German, anyway … and it’s not like all English people speak perfect English the whole time!
Funny.
Shur yous are all in da ha’penny place compared to Irish culture.. shur didn’t we improve your English culture no end with Goldsmith, Swift, Shaw, Yeats, Joyce and Becket! I know ye had Shakespeare but shur dat was ages ago!
Brilliant . You forgot Myles Na Gopaleen.
Mind you we should probably keep bit quiet about Charles Haughey – shure Trump was only an amateur compared to Charlie.
To be honest I found Ulysses a bit a drag me self
Brilliant . You forgot Myles Na Gopaleen.
Mind you we should probably keep bit quiet about Charles Haughey – shure Trump was only an amateur compared to Charlie.
To be honest I found Ulysses a bit a drag me self
An American telling the rest of the world how to make (atrocious) coffee. Tell me you are joking – surely!
I can honestly say that there is probably no more thoroughly disgusting hot beverage than the coffee I have been given at breakfast in American hotels.
Exactlly!! And never order tea in America unless it”s in an expensive place, otherwise it’s a teabag in warm water in a mug.
I can honestly say that there is probably no more thoroughly disgusting hot beverage than the coffee I have been given at breakfast in American hotels.
Exactlly!! And never order tea in America unless it”s in an expensive place, otherwise it’s a teabag in warm water in a mug.
As I do not have nor want any German friends, I cannot possibly comment.
Then don’t.
And yet you have commented. To be fair, your comment does add immeasurably to the conversation.
Then don’t.
And yet you have commented. To be fair, your comment does add immeasurably to the conversation.
“.. our ability to turn politeness into passive aggressive social weaponry.”
I totally understand why that frustrates foreigners. So many Brits abroad think that this passive aggressive behaviour dressed as politeness is going to get their message across, but no one gets it apart from us. The British psyche really is a weird place…and often weird without being wonderful.
As far as your German friend is concerned I think it’s partly politeness but it’s also because so many people speak English as a second language that we are used to hearing our native language butchered and simply let it pass over us.
Shur yous are all in da ha’penny place compared to Irish culture.. shur didn’t we improve your English culture no end with Goldsmith, Swift, Shaw, Yeats, Joyce and Becket! I know ye had Shakespeare but shur dat was ages ago!
An American telling the rest of the world how to make (atrocious) coffee. Tell me you are joking – surely!
As I do not have nor want any German friends, I cannot possibly comment.
Everyone has culture – including hard to believe – USA! Cowboy line dancing is not the Austrian Waltz but it surely is better than Morris Dancing.
Happy to provide a long list of good (not great like Tolstoy or Balzac) American writers. Some of them might even be considered semi-great writers (Hemingway, Melville).
There are plenty of painters, thinkers, musicians etc.
Unless you mean high culture but that is a Continental thing. It is certainly not a British (which explains why US doesn’t have high culture).
Stormy Daniels.. high priestess of American culture, along with suave, sophisticated, eloquent, intellectual, Donald T. Rump.
Exactly, the music derived from black culture is American culture for which we are all the richer.
Stormy Daniels.. high priestess of American culture, along with suave, sophisticated, eloquent, intellectual, Donald T. Rump.
Exactly, the music derived from black culture is American culture for which we are all the richer.
So what is British culture? There isn’t any… There might have been at one time but not in my ken or that of my parents or even my grandparents. We are British but we are also Scottish. If asked I am Scottish then British. I don’t identify with most of the culture that is supposed to be British including the monarchy.
American friends do have culture, which depends on which state they come from. A bit like which country you come from in the UK! Then there is the culture of First Nation people or African-Americans or Hispanic-Americans, Jewish-Americans…All my friends identify as American first and something else second. Bit different to people who live in the UK!
Keep taking the medication…
Keep taking the medication…
Untrue. Americana is not to be sniffed at.
I think America has provided most of the positive cultural influences for the world in the last 100 years – far more so than any other nation. Whether Steinbeck, F Scott Fitzgerald , Dylan, Jazz, Andy Warhol , the great National Parks devoid of all commercial advertising, the Creole cooking of the southern States, the Hubble telescope, the Apollo landings, the general optimism of Americans has contributed hugely to making the world a better place.
Yes of course we like to remember the stuff the U.S. gets wrong : but compare and contrast how culturally poorer we’d be without the USA. I live in the UK, and love it too, but what have we , or anyone else done that’s better recently.?
PS: I am not Americn.
Well said.
Well said.
It does have a culture albeit not a desirable one.
Your posting tells us far more about your culture – or lack of it – than you intended.
Hmmm… If you’re British, I’d be a little careful about saying things like that. After all, can anyone name another country, where for 40 years the biggest selling newspaper, featured on page 3..?
My best friend is American, and we’ve had many discussions about American and British culture over the years. I certainly don’t like certain aspects of their culture and consider them to be superficial, or weird or stupid, and she feels the same about some aspects of British culture (such as our indifference about how terrible our coffee is, and our ability to turn politeness into passive aggressive social weaponry).
We also both love things about these cultures, and have essentially appropriated them for ourselves (she now can’t live without a proper kettle in her house, and gets tea sent over from here so she can get her fix, I have a proper coffee maker, and have a whole notebook stuffed with her family recipes).
Everywhere has a culture of some sort, and they all have silly aspects to them (one of my German friends recently expressed frustration with how British politeness inhibits how well he learns English, because British people often consider it impolite to correct his errors in usage), and most of them also have some great aspects to them (I love German efficiency, and directness, for example).
Everyone has culture – including hard to believe – USA! Cowboy line dancing is not the Austrian Waltz but it surely is better than Morris Dancing.
Happy to provide a long list of good (not great like Tolstoy or Balzac) American writers. Some of them might even be considered semi-great writers (Hemingway, Melville).
There are plenty of painters, thinkers, musicians etc.
Unless you mean high culture but that is a Continental thing. It is certainly not a British (which explains why US doesn’t have high culture).
So what is British culture? There isn’t any… There might have been at one time but not in my ken or that of my parents or even my grandparents. We are British but we are also Scottish. If asked I am Scottish then British. I don’t identify with most of the culture that is supposed to be British including the monarchy.
American friends do have culture, which depends on which state they come from. A bit like which country you come from in the UK! Then there is the culture of First Nation people or African-Americans or Hispanic-Americans, Jewish-Americans…All my friends identify as American first and something else second. Bit different to people who live in the UK!
Untrue. Americana is not to be sniffed at.
I think America has provided most of the positive cultural influences for the world in the last 100 years – far more so than any other nation. Whether Steinbeck, F Scott Fitzgerald , Dylan, Jazz, Andy Warhol , the great National Parks devoid of all commercial advertising, the Creole cooking of the southern States, the Hubble telescope, the Apollo landings, the general optimism of Americans has contributed hugely to making the world a better place.
Yes of course we like to remember the stuff the U.S. gets wrong : but compare and contrast how culturally poorer we’d be without the USA. I live in the UK, and love it too, but what have we , or anyone else done that’s better recently.?
PS: I am not Americn.
It does have a culture albeit not a desirable one.
Your posting tells us far more about your culture – or lack of it – than you intended.
the words cultural and American do not fit in the same sentence… Culture is to America what Polar Bears are to the Kalahari desert.
A former work colleague told me that he was a stalwart in all things to do with Irish culture when he worked in the Middle East, but when he came home he found had no great need or desire for the same things.
It is really odd. on some level it’s to do with making friends in a foreign place and using the old clichés about your country to entertain and break the ice…but it’s also about feeling like you have to (over-)assert and thus protect your own identity when you’re surrounded by and submerged in another one.
It is really odd. on some level it’s to do with making friends in a foreign place and using the old clichés about your country to entertain and break the ice…but it’s also about feeling like you have to (over-)assert and thus protect your own identity when you’re surrounded by and submerged in another one.
Agreed. And the line, “each life is its own story” can be said about everyone on the planet, not just the Irish.
But do you group together with other Brits, in British bars, and join British clubs and make a big feal of St George’s Day? ..and form political alliances of Brits abroad? ..’bet you dont’
Have you never lived abroad Liam of chap?
If you had you should have noticed that the place is littered with British Clubs, particularly in the Old Empire.
You should pop in sometime Paddies are always welcomed as ‘honorary’ Englishmen.
May I suggest the Muthaiga Club if you happen to be stuck in Nairobi, or perhaps the Singapore Cricket Club if out East?
I made the Club in Kuala Lumpur at the invitation of my India friend.. we were both embarrassed by a drunken Brit.. go figure as the Yanks say. I had a similar incident in Jamaica.. I’m not saying it’s typical, but those were my only two experiences..
Such behaviour is NOT unknown in the Republic as I recall.
Such behaviour is NOT unknown in the Republic as I recall.
You may as well be speaking Martian to most of the ill-read quasi literate dolts on this thread.
Would they not be full of stuffy old white geezers?
I made the Club in Kuala Lumpur at the invitation of my India friend.. we were both embarrassed by a drunken Brit.. go figure as the Yanks say. I had a similar incident in Jamaica.. I’m not saying it’s typical, but those were my only two experiences..
You may as well be speaking Martian to most of the ill-read quasi literate dolts on this thread.
Would they not be full of stuffy old white geezers?
Have you never lived abroad Liam of chap?
If you had you should have noticed that the place is littered with British Clubs, particularly in the Old Empire.
You should pop in sometime Paddies are always welcomed as ‘honorary’ Englishmen.
May I suggest the Muthaiga Club if you happen to be stuck in Nairobi, or perhaps the Singapore Cricket Club if out East?
There is a reason you left. There is a reason people move on. Humans. They adapt. They cling. But they move on. Hayek is right. Tradition is rewarded by success. That what works is what we become. Embrace the change that is successful — and don’t look back, but never forget to weave the things you inherited that are successful, … that work, into the new.
You raise an interesting observation Katherine. I wonder why we want to cling to a version of our earlier “Home” identity? Is it just so that we feel good about our earlier (younger) life -when the sky was always blue and the world was good etc. Contrarywise, we may feel more invested in our new “host” country so that we become , in my case, more British than the average Brit. Funny world.
But did that romantic, idyllic Ireland ever really exist? As a Brit living in the US I know I romanticize about my roots in the little, English Village from whence I came, many, many years ago. I watch everything I can of period piece movies and documentaries. I yearn and weep, at the same time knowing that the reality of that life was somewhat different.The pull, for me, is the beautiful countryside, the flora and fauna, the blue bell woods, my dog, the historic buildings.The longing isn’t for the people or the culture, it’s for the place.
I recognise this entirely. During my ten years in South Africa I learned the words to Land of Hope and Glory, which was occasionally required at particularly alcohol fuelled rugby club do’s.
But we were both raised in the U.K. What do we make of 3rd generation immigrants, with strong regional British accents, supporting India or Pakistan at cricket matches? How will those identifies play out in the years to come?
To me, it’s essentially an inability for them to differentiate between ethnic background and cultural background that is very distinctly American, and causes so many problems when they insist on trying to transfer concepts borne of their culture to others.
Ethnically, I am slightly more Irish than Biden, although it comes to me via a weird mixture of Scottish, irish and Welsh ancestry, and I have an even weirder mixture of bloodlines on the other side of the family (which I won’t waste time detailing here), yet culturally I am English, in spite of being partly raised by my Scottish grandmother.
I might have the gift of a little more Scottish folklore and history woven through the stories my grandmother told me, but I have lived my whole life in England, I was baptised in an English Church, went through an English schooling system, the traditions and quirks and mannerisms I learned were English, my natural accent is perfectly typical mixture of the two locations I’ve spent the majority of my life.
The ethnic details and family history I have might be intellectually interesting to me, and might help me to understand any particular medical risks I might have, but it is just a list of interesting facts for the most part, not a massive part of my identity to be displayed wherever I go, or added as a prefix or suffix to my British nationality. I am British, I am not Irish-Scottish-Welsh-Italian-Arabic-British, or whatever other ethnic groups my distant relatives want to add to such a list, the British part of things is far more important than the results of an ancestry DNA test.
A former work colleague told me that he was a stalwart in all things to do with Irish culture when he worked in the Middle East, but when he came home he found had no great need or desire for the same things.
Agreed. And the line, “each life is its own story” can be said about everyone on the planet, not just the Irish.
But do you group together with other Brits, in British bars, and join British clubs and make a big feal of St George’s Day? ..and form political alliances of Brits abroad? ..’bet you dont’
There is a reason you left. There is a reason people move on. Humans. They adapt. They cling. But they move on. Hayek is right. Tradition is rewarded by success. That what works is what we become. Embrace the change that is successful — and don’t look back, but never forget to weave the things you inherited that are successful, … that work, into the new.
You raise an interesting observation Katherine. I wonder why we want to cling to a version of our earlier “Home” identity? Is it just so that we feel good about our earlier (younger) life -when the sky was always blue and the world was good etc. Contrarywise, we may feel more invested in our new “host” country so that we become , in my case, more British than the average Brit. Funny world.
But did that romantic, idyllic Ireland ever really exist? As a Brit living in the US I know I romanticize about my roots in the little, English Village from whence I came, many, many years ago. I watch everything I can of period piece movies and documentaries. I yearn and weep, at the same time knowing that the reality of that life was somewhat different.The pull, for me, is the beautiful countryside, the flora and fauna, the blue bell woods, my dog, the historic buildings.The longing isn’t for the people or the culture, it’s for the place.
This powerful “idea” of the homeland is not exclusive to Americans with Irish heritage, as I prefer to call them.
I’ve been living abroad now for 20 years and Britain has changed unimaginably in that time – it is no longer the country I left in 2004. Yet I still feel very British and feel the need to protect and sustain that “home” identity while living (quite happily) in a foreign culture.
You do end up playing up to certain stereotypes and over-egging the pudding: I find myself joking about having a “stiff upper lip” etc. which I don’t think I ever did while I lived in the UK. You kind of become a parody of yourself.
So it is with Irish Americans – this constant straining to cleave to an old identity based in an Ireland that has long since ceased to exist makes them seem absurd. If this group wasn’t quite so powerful on the world stage then we’d just laugh and think it quaint. As it is, I find it worrying that a group with such romantic notions quite divorced from 21st century reality has so much influence.
Nice article. The first and most important thing one must understand about Biden is that he is really, really, dumb.
He was dumb before he was senile.
Yes. He was.
Nothing is worse than a dumb idiot with a lust for power.
Like Trump and DeSantos to mentioon just a few. It’s lean pickins.
Like Trump and DeSantos to mentioon just a few. It’s lean pickins.
Nothing is worse than a dumb idiot with a lust for power.
Yes. He was.
On his own, he surely makes dumb, stupid statements and decisions. However, his basic personality is cunning manipulation, bullying, cheating, lying and stealing. He may be senile now, but he is still devious and his “handlers” use his desire for power and attention to do their bidding.
He was dumb before he was senile.
On his own, he surely makes dumb, stupid statements and decisions. However, his basic personality is cunning manipulation, bullying, cheating, lying and stealing. He may be senile now, but he is still devious and his “handlers” use his desire for power and attention to do their bidding.
Nice article. The first and most important thing one must understand about Biden is that he is really, really, dumb.
I adore America and have visited regularly for over thirty years. The *only* place anyone was rude to me due to my nationality was – of course – Boston by an ‘Irish-American’, who was about as Irish as the Kurdish gentleman who cuts my hair. They would be comical were it not for the millions of dollars they sent to fund terrorism. Happily, most Americans think their cosplaying plastic Irishfolk are ridiculous too.
You damn 35 million because one was rude to you? ..that’s a bit extreme, isn’t it? I was well treated in England by 9 out of 10 people there and it never occurred to me, when abused by far more than one, to think badly of the English. Sure, don’t I put up with Charlie Stanhope here and he’s as anti-Irish as Oliver Cromwell was!
Praise indeed Sir! Praise indeed!
You’re most deserving Charlie!
You’re most deserving Charlie!
Praise indeed Sir! Praise indeed!
A memory of one of my trips to Boston in the 80’s was of Irish Americans on the streets drumming up support and $$ for the IRA. If the US govt. had applied the same reasoning as was the case with 9/11 then an invasion of Eire would have been on the cards..
You damn 35 million because one was rude to you? ..that’s a bit extreme, isn’t it? I was well treated in England by 9 out of 10 people there and it never occurred to me, when abused by far more than one, to think badly of the English. Sure, don’t I put up with Charlie Stanhope here and he’s as anti-Irish as Oliver Cromwell was!
A memory of one of my trips to Boston in the 80’s was of Irish Americans on the streets drumming up support and $$ for the IRA. If the US govt. had applied the same reasoning as was the case with 9/11 then an invasion of Eire would have been on the cards..
I adore America and have visited regularly for over thirty years. The *only* place anyone was rude to me due to my nationality was – of course – Boston by an ‘Irish-American’, who was about as Irish as the Kurdish gentleman who cuts my hair. They would be comical were it not for the millions of dollars they sent to fund terrorism. Happily, most Americans think their cosplaying plastic Irishfolk are ridiculous too.
The whole thing is just a manufactured vote-harvest isn’t it? Biden reckons (probably correctly) that all those 30 million-odd americans who think they are Irish are worth more in votes at home than what Ulster or indeed the UK thinks of his acts and comments abroad.
Biden does not think anything: his charge nurse does it for him.
Including the next ‘nappy change’.*
(*Diapers for US readers.)
Please don’t condescend to us. Everybody in the US knows that. PBS taught us.
Really!!!
I am astonished!
Really!!!
I am astonished!
Your time will come, Charles, if it hasn’t already.
And yours Ms Knight.
And yours Ms Knight.
Please don’t condescend to us. Everybody in the US knows that. PBS taught us.
Your time will come, Charles, if it hasn’t already.
Including the next ‘nappy change’.*
(*Diapers for US readers.)
So… what’s wrong with that?
Biden does not think anything: his charge nurse does it for him.
So… what’s wrong with that?
The whole thing is just a manufactured vote-harvest isn’t it? Biden reckons (probably correctly) that all those 30 million-odd americans who think they are Irish are worth more in votes at home than what Ulster or indeed the UK thinks of his acts and comments abroad.
Biden is “the most powerful man in the world”? Please. He is a walking pharmacy run by we know not who and freely admits that he shouldn’t say this or that or he’ll get in trouble, no joke. He’s also claimed to be a black Puerto Rican Jew, so the author wastes his time waxing lyrical on claims of Biden’s connection to the auld sod.
Why is this obvious fact ignored by certain members of the scribbling class? Biden is in Ireland to give the media something to do instead of being forced to report on events here in the US that go against the official propaganda.
Well at least he has made a simply brilliant job of being the stereotypical Paddy that most Englishman have long suspected.
Although his confusing of the All Blacks with the Black & Tans recently does diminish his supposed Irishness somewhat
Edit: Apologies, I see that’s already been mentioned further down the thread
Although his confusing of the All Blacks with the Black & Tans recently does diminish his supposed Irishness somewhat
Edit: Apologies, I see that’s already been mentioned further down the thread
Will you shhh, we don’t want anyone to know that!
Well at least he has made a simply brilliant job of being the stereotypical Paddy that most Englishman have long suspected.
Will you shhh, we don’t want anyone to know that!
Biden is “the most powerful man in the world”? Please. He is a walking pharmacy run by we know not who and freely admits that he shouldn’t say this or that or he’ll get in trouble, no joke. He’s also claimed to be a black Puerto Rican Jew, so the author wastes his time waxing lyrical on claims of Biden’s connection to the auld sod.
Why is this obvious fact ignored by certain members of the scribbling class? Biden is in Ireland to give the media something to do instead of being forced to report on events here in the US that go against the official propaganda.
Of course part of the issue is that Joe Biden is only half Irish anyway:
” Biden’s paternal line has been traced to stonemason William Biden, who was born in 1789 in Westbourne, England, and emigrated to Maryland in the United States by 1820″
i.e he get’s his name from someone who was an English emigrant
A bit like Barack Obama. whose mother was white but only his black roots are emphasised.
How very embarrassing for him!
Certainly not! Barak O’Bama’s white ancestors hale from Moneygall, Co Offaly! He visited there on his trip to Ireland.. The services complex there is called Barak Obama Plaza!
Biden is about as Orish as Elizabeth Warren is native American.
Because blacks in America were forced to identify as black if they only had a bit (I don’t know how much) blackness.
I wondered how come the name Biden wasn’t in Ireland. He should certainly have honored that important part.
How very embarrassing for him!
Certainly not! Barak O’Bama’s white ancestors hale from Moneygall, Co Offaly! He visited there on his trip to Ireland.. The services complex there is called Barak Obama Plaza!
Biden is about as Orish as Elizabeth Warren is native American.
Because blacks in America were forced to identify as black if they only had a bit (I don’t know how much) blackness.
I wondered how come the name Biden wasn’t in Ireland. He should certainly have honored that important part.
Of course part of the issue is that Joe Biden is only half Irish anyway:
” Biden’s paternal line has been traced to stonemason William Biden, who was born in 1789 in Westbourne, England, and emigrated to Maryland in the United States by 1820″
i.e he get’s his name from someone who was an English emigrant
A bit like Barack Obama. whose mother was white but only his black roots are emphasised.
Thank you Mr McTague for an amusing evisceration of this ridiculous ‘Kerrygold Farce’, currently being played out on the blood soaked Emerald Isle.
And who might be the instigators?
Vae Victis!
You should have fought harder, history abhors losers.
Vae Victis!
You should have fought harder, history abhors losers.
Who spilled 90% of that blood over the centuries Charlie? ..and who was the root cause the spilling of the other 10%.. but maybe we shouldn’t include the million who starved to death 3 years before Grandad emigrated? ..as I’m not sure starving people bleed?
What’s a real farce is the UK on its knees begging for American crumbs via a trade deal.. Maybe Joe is thinking of his starving grandad and is thinking: “Right so, let’s see how the English like starving for a change? ..maybe it’s in the genes Charlie? Watja tink?
As above, reply to MM.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It’s great to be a victim, is it not ?
It’s nothing to do with modern
day British people
Who in UK gov is talking up a trade deal with the US? It’s a terrible idea. It’s there way or the highway. And it’s pretty clear the only special relationship Biden wants is with Gerry Adams. Keep arms length, they’ve done enough damage to the UK banking system.
As above, reply to MM.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It’s great to be a victim, is it not ?
It’s nothing to do with modern
day British people
Who in UK gov is talking up a trade deal with the US? It’s a terrible idea. It’s there way or the highway. And it’s pretty clear the only special relationship Biden wants is with Gerry Adams. Keep arms length, they’ve done enough damage to the UK banking system.
It’s a Kerrygold farce all right, I’m not disputing that. Thankfully the place is not so soaked in blood as it used to be, however.
And who might be the instigators?
Who spilled 90% of that blood over the centuries Charlie? ..and who was the root cause the spilling of the other 10%.. but maybe we shouldn’t include the million who starved to death 3 years before Grandad emigrated? ..as I’m not sure starving people bleed?
What’s a real farce is the UK on its knees begging for American crumbs via a trade deal.. Maybe Joe is thinking of his starving grandad and is thinking: “Right so, let’s see how the English like starving for a change? ..maybe it’s in the genes Charlie? Watja tink?
It’s a Kerrygold farce all right, I’m not disputing that. Thankfully the place is not so soaked in blood as it used to be, however.
Thank you Mr McTague for an amusing evisceration of this ridiculous ‘Kerrygold Farce’, currently being played out on the blood soaked Emerald Isle.
Irish America funded the IRA in the 1970s and 80s, and now warns Britain not to do anything that would imperil the peace process. Excellent.
‘They’ did however get their comeuppance with 9/11, and have mellowed slightly since.
You have such a nice, sensitive way of putting your point across Charlie, don’t you?
Thank you Liam old chap.
Thank you Liam old chap.
That may be the most lame comment I’ve ever read on Un-heard, and that is a low bar indeed! How may people who died in the 9-11 terrorist attack to you reckon contributed to the IRA?
Exactly.
Cantor Fitzgerald?
Exactly.
Cantor Fitzgerald?
You have such a nice, sensitive way of putting your point across Charlie, don’t you?
That may be the most lame comment I’ve ever read on Un-heard, and that is a low bar indeed! How may people who died in the 9-11 terrorist attack to you reckon contributed to the IRA?
Sadly the British establishment never take any notice until violence is directed at them. Even nationwide strikes of vital industrial staff is ignored.. If the British hadn’t turned a blind eye to the endless, vicious sectarian abuse by DUP types perpetrated on the defenceless RC/Nationalist minority (now a majority) and paid attention to peaceful civil rights marches the IRA might have remained dormant in the late 1960’s.. I was there.. it was appalling what went on with B-Specials burning whole streets like the Black n Tans had done 50 years earlier..
When the state is brutal expect rebellion. You may see it yet in your own country if the Tories keep crushing ordinary British people!
As if Starmer and his bunch of retards wouldn’t do exactly the same thing.
You are spot on there Liam old chap, ‘we’ weren’t paying attention and should have intervened much earlier.
We were a little busy in Borneo and Aden but that isn’t really a valid excuse.
Funnily enough, I actually agree with you that the past abuses of the Protestants against the Catholics were overlooked because the area was deemed to be self-governing. However, I still think that there were ways of making this known to the general public on the mainland without resorting to such terrible violence. Do remember that when the British troops were first sent in it was to protect the Catholic population. And in no circumstances is killing children acceptable, no matter what your aim is, and there can be no whataboutery here; it is wrong whoever does it.
As if Starmer and his bunch of retards wouldn’t do exactly the same thing.
You are spot on there Liam old chap, ‘we’ weren’t paying attention and should have intervened much earlier.
We were a little busy in Borneo and Aden but that isn’t really a valid excuse.
Funnily enough, I actually agree with you that the past abuses of the Protestants against the Catholics were overlooked because the area was deemed to be self-governing. However, I still think that there were ways of making this known to the general public on the mainland without resorting to such terrible violence. Do remember that when the British troops were first sent in it was to protect the Catholic population. And in no circumstances is killing children acceptable, no matter what your aim is, and there can be no whataboutery here; it is wrong whoever does it.
‘They’ did however get their comeuppance with 9/11, and have mellowed slightly since.
Sadly the British establishment never take any notice until violence is directed at them. Even nationwide strikes of vital industrial staff is ignored.. If the British hadn’t turned a blind eye to the endless, vicious sectarian abuse by DUP types perpetrated on the defenceless RC/Nationalist minority (now a majority) and paid attention to peaceful civil rights marches the IRA might have remained dormant in the late 1960’s.. I was there.. it was appalling what went on with B-Specials burning whole streets like the Black n Tans had done 50 years earlier..
When the state is brutal expect rebellion. You may see it yet in your own country if the Tories keep crushing ordinary British people!
Irish America funded the IRA in the 1970s and 80s, and now warns Britain not to do anything that would imperil the peace process. Excellent.
BEST JOE BIDEN QUOTE:-
“See this tie I have, this shamrock tie? It was given to me by one of these guys right here, who’s a hell of a rugby player who beat the hell out of the Black and Tans.”
QED!
Let’s not judge, maybe he was a very old and very vicious rugby player who was out there fighting for Ireland.
Let’s not judge, maybe he was a very old and very vicious rugby player who was out there fighting for Ireland.
BEST JOE BIDEN QUOTE:-
“See this tie I have, this shamrock tie? It was given to me by one of these guys right here, who’s a hell of a rugby player who beat the hell out of the Black and Tans.”
QED!
Everyone so far has looked at this from the American perspective. I’ll look at it from the Irish perspective. Ever since America became a prominent world power in the 1890s, Irish politicians have courted Irish-American public opinion. They wanted a powerful ‘big brother’ handy, when dealing with the English. Kennedy’s election was an almighty sugar rush, and they have not looked back since.
Despite assiduous cultivation by the Irish (not just successive Irish governments), those links are fading (https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/04/11/biden-visit-marks-end-of-era-as-passing-time-has-thinned-out-irish-american-blood/).
Why do the Irish bother? Because they still have to deal with us, from a position of strategic weakness. Ireland still depends on Britain for her defence (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/secret-defence-pact-allowing-raf-jets-inirish-airspace-undermines-our-neutrality-says-td-berry-40526069.html). So the Irish depend on us to protect them militarily from the R*****ns, and on Brussels and Washington to protect them politically from us.
D’you know I can’t remember the last time Russia attacked Ireland? ..nor can I remember ever reading about it in the history books! The only people who ever attacked us were the Norse and the Anglo-Norman-English and that was 1,300 and 700 years ago resp. I think we’re safe enough, thanks all the same.
What political mischief do you British have in mind for us? Sanctions? I note you made no mention at all of the United Nations? We’re well in with those guys y’know! LOL.
D’you know I can’t remember the last time Russia attacked Ireland? ..nor can I remember ever reading about it in the history books! The only people who ever attacked us were the Norse and the Anglo-Norman-English and that was 1,300 and 700 years ago resp. I think we’re safe enough, thanks all the same.
What political mischief do you British have in mind for us? Sanctions? I note you made no mention at all of the United Nations? We’re well in with those guys y’know! LOL.
Everyone so far has looked at this from the American perspective. I’ll look at it from the Irish perspective. Ever since America became a prominent world power in the 1890s, Irish politicians have courted Irish-American public opinion. They wanted a powerful ‘big brother’ handy, when dealing with the English. Kennedy’s election was an almighty sugar rush, and they have not looked back since.
Despite assiduous cultivation by the Irish (not just successive Irish governments), those links are fading (https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/04/11/biden-visit-marks-end-of-era-as-passing-time-has-thinned-out-irish-american-blood/).
Why do the Irish bother? Because they still have to deal with us, from a position of strategic weakness. Ireland still depends on Britain for her defence (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/secret-defence-pact-allowing-raf-jets-inirish-airspace-undermines-our-neutrality-says-td-berry-40526069.html). So the Irish depend on us to protect them militarily from the R*****ns, and on Brussels and Washington to protect them politically from us.
Biden believes that West Ham United are a Palestinian football side, ” The Hamas”, but let’s confuse the old git more and tell him that AC Milan is actually The Athletic and Cricket Club of Milan, not Milano, and Genoa not Genova, is the English name for the Italian Genova Cricket club?
Now even I’m confused, as indeed you seem to be yourself!
no, merely accurate.
no, merely accurate.
Now even I’m confused, as indeed you seem to be yourself!
Biden believes that West Ham United are a Palestinian football side, ” The Hamas”, but let’s confuse the old git more and tell him that AC Milan is actually The Athletic and Cricket Club of Milan, not Milano, and Genoa not Genova, is the English name for the Italian Genova Cricket club?
Jung suggested that there are psychological archetypes – an inherited idea or mode of thought that is derived from the experience of the race and is present in the unconscious of the individual.
Well maybe yes, maybe no. But archetypes whether they exist or are merely a useful fiction do tend to become polished and simplified over time – which makes them attractive to politicians with an ideological axe to grind.
The famine in Ireland, with a million starving to death and 1½ million emigrating with Biden’s grandad to escape death may well have created an archetype but it certainly was based on any fiction! Agonising death through starvation is very real. Forced emigration (you guys know about emigration don’t you?) is no fun either!