Why flatter them with their preferred term of “intelligentsia”? There’s a marvellous short story by Chekhov illustrating the useless narcissism of such creatures by comparison with a modest, capable engineer of suburban tastes and origins. They despise him. He dies. Very gloomy. Well, it is Chekhov.
We all know what happened to their unfortunate country, thanks to their political prejudices. Their cohesion, as Solzhenitsyn points out, has and had nothing whatsoever to do with brains or insight. It is a blend of social origins – they all know each other, marry each other, commit adultery with each other, a la Bloomsbury – and ideological recruitment.
Perhaps the most interesting comparison is with that character who ends by cutting down the cherry orchard. He does so, you will recall, from exasperation. In the same spirit, I hope and trust that someone, some day, will thrust our “intelligentsia” out of its position of permanent power.
I guess James Clayton is a member of the intelligentsia. When he complained to Elon Musk (whilst interviewing him for the BBC) about the increase in hate speech on Twitter and of being a victim of himself, Musk challenged James Clayton to produce an example of hate speech – he couldn’t. The closest he came to producing an example was saying he had received slightly racist and slightly sexist comments. Musk asked James Clayton who was to be the arbiter of hate speech. James Clayton had no answer. He didn’t seem to understand that he, James Clayton, was implicitly claiming to be an arbiter of hate speech by claiming to be a victim of hate speech.
Jonathan Millar and Dennis Potter and the like engage not so much in virtue signalling as masturbating in public.
Their contempt for Thatcher was only matched by their contempt for the ordinary people of this country who refused to play the respectful prol an old them in the reverence which they think they richly deserve
Why on earth are their views of any interest or relevance?
Thatcher’s first degree was in chemistry. She later took a law degree and qualified as a barrister.
When the arts people sneer that she was stupid, they mean that she was very clever, just not in any way that they understand themselves.
I wish we had more politicians with a scientific education. The best argument for the Lords is that there are people in it like Matt Ridley and Robert Winston who actually know what they are talking about.
I am not sure that would help. James Clayton is the BBC’s technology reporter so presumably, but not necessarily, is a science graduate. I have googled him, but there is virtually no information. I guess he has gone into hiding. I wanted to know where he was indoctrinated.
No evidence I can find that he’s a science graduate – please do share ! He certainly doesn’t behave like a scientist. Making assertions with no evidence and rejecting evidence that doesn’t happen to agree with your prejudices isn’t science. So he’s a perfect BBC appointee – no real domain knowledge or expertise, but feels able to comment as though he’s some sort of authority.
Hold on – I’m not saying he doesn’t have a science degree – merely that I cannot tell. I’m an engineer. I try to deal in facts where I can.
However, his immediate predecessor as the BBC’s point man in Silicon Valley was Rory Cellan-Jones. Dulwich and Modern and Mediaeval Languages at Cambridge. Zero technical street cred in the Valley then.
Then there’s Roger Harrabin – the BBC’s main man for energy and the environment. Private school in Coventry and English at Cambridge.
Always dangerous to generalise from a small sample, but technical qualifications don’t appear to be a requirement for reprting on science and technology at the BBC.
Perhaps it’s just career limiting to be known to have a STEM degree at the BBC and he’s just keeping his head down …
Hold on – I’m not saying he doesn’t have a science degree – merely that I cannot tell. I’m an engineer. I try to deal in facts where I can.
However, his immediate predecessor as the BBC’s point man in Silicon Valley was Rory Cellan-Jones. Dulwich and Modern and Mediaeval Languages at Cambridge. Zero technical street cred in the Valley then.
Then there’s Roger Harrabin – the BBC’s main man for energy and the environment. Private school in Coventry and English at Cambridge.
Always dangerous to generalise from a small sample, but technical qualifications don’t appear to be a requirement for reprting on science and technology at the BBC.
Perhaps it’s just career limiting to be known to have a STEM degree at the BBC and he’s just keeping his head down …
I made the assumption he has a science degree because he is the technology reporter for the BBC. In the past, it would have been a natural assumption but I am aware of how times have changed which is why I googled him. Having a science degree does not preclude indoctrination. It never did. It is well known, during a certain time period, most German scientists were heavily indoctrinated.
I made the assumption he has a science degree because he is the technology reporter for the BBC. In the past, it would have been a natural assumption but I am aware of how times have changed which is why I googled him. Having a science degree does not preclude indoctrination. It never did. It is well known, during a certain time period, most German scientists were heavily indoctrinated.
No evidence I can find that he’s a science graduate – please do share ! He certainly doesn’t behave like a scientist. Making assertions with no evidence and rejecting evidence that doesn’t happen to agree with your prejudices isn’t science. So he’s a perfect BBC appointee – no real domain knowledge or expertise, but feels able to comment as though he’s some sort of authority.
Would Lady Thatcher have fallen for the great COVID scam?
I very much doubt it!
But both those vacuous ‘Arts Graduates’ Johnson & Cummings did, big time, more’s the pity.
I am not sure that would help. James Clayton is the BBC’s technology reporter so presumably, but not necessarily, is a science graduate. I have googled him, but there is virtually no information. I guess he has gone into hiding. I wanted to know where he was indoctrinated.
Would Lady Thatcher have fallen for the great COVID scam?
I very much doubt it!
But both those vacuous ‘Arts Graduates’ Johnson & Cummings did, big time, more’s the pity.
Why flatter them with their preferred term of “intelligentsia”? There’s a marvellous short story by Chekhov illustrating the useless narcissism of such creatures by comparison with a modest, capable engineer of suburban tastes and origins. They despise him. He dies. Very gloomy. Well, it is Chekhov.
We all know what happened to their unfortunate country, thanks to their political prejudices. Their cohesion, as Solzhenitsyn points out, has and had nothing whatsoever to do with brains or insight. It is a blend of social origins – they all know each other, marry each other, commit adultery with each other, a la Bloomsbury – and ideological recruitment.
Perhaps the most interesting comparison is with that character who ends by cutting down the cherry orchard. He does so, you will recall, from exasperation. In the same spirit, I hope and trust that someone, some day, will thrust our “intelligentsia” out of its position of permanent power.
I guess James Clayton is a member of the intelligentsia. When he complained to Elon Musk (whilst interviewing him for the BBC) about the increase in hate speech on Twitter and of being a victim of himself, Musk challenged James Clayton to produce an example of hate speech – he couldn’t. The closest he came to producing an example was saying he had received slightly racist and slightly sexist comments. Musk asked James Clayton who was to be the arbiter of hate speech. James Clayton had no answer. He didn’t seem to understand that he, James Clayton, was implicitly claiming to be an arbiter of hate speech by claiming to be a victim of hate speech.
Jonathan Millar and Dennis Potter and the like engage not so much in virtue signalling as masturbating in public.
Their contempt for Thatcher was only matched by their contempt for the ordinary people of this country who refused to play the respectful prol an old them in the reverence which they think they richly deserve
Why on earth are their views of any interest or relevance?
Thatcher’s first degree was in chemistry. She later took a law degree and qualified as a barrister.
When the arts people sneer that she was stupid, they mean that she was very clever, just not in any way that they understand themselves.
I wish we had more politicians with a scientific education. The best argument for the Lords is that there are people in it like Matt Ridley and Robert Winston who actually know what they are talking about.
Jonathan Nash
1 year ago
The snobbery of the intelligentsia is breathtaking. Repulsive even.
Peter B
1 year ago
Interesting to reflect that the arts didn’t do badly in spite of the lack of state sympathy. Or perhaps because of it. I tend to the view that it was more the latter.
Also – whatever happened to kissograms ? I guess that might now qualify as “sexual assault”. Ah, those more liberal, less puritan times under Thatcher (as no one has ever said) !
Last edited 1 year ago by Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Interesting to reflect that the arts didn’t do badly in spite of the lack of state sympathy. Or perhaps because of it. I tend to the view that it was more the latter.
Also – whatever happened to kissograms ? I guess that might now qualify as “sexual assault”. Ah, those more liberal, less puritan times under Thatcher (as no one has ever said) !
Last edited 1 year ago by Peter B
Cathy Carron
1 year ago
How did ‘Thatcher lose her culture war’ if culture didn’t much matter to her and it’s not what she was focused on? It was not ‘her war’ albeit a culture war of sorts which was waged on her. From afar, methinks the Brits did not appreciate the ‘paradigm shifter’ that she was. Seems like she was the real revolutionary.
Cathy Carron
1 year ago
How did ‘Thatcher lose her culture war’ if culture didn’t much matter to her and it’s not what she was focused on? It was not ‘her war’ albeit a culture war of sorts which was waged on her. From afar, methinks the Brits did not appreciate the ‘paradigm shifter’ that she was. Seems like she was the real revolutionary.
Brendan O'Leary
1 year ago
No mention of “Ghost Town”? A bigger hit and better song than the others you mentioned.
Given that Corporal Major failed his bus conductor arithmetic test, he could never rise to the dizzy heights of bank clerk: he was given a bank job in return for protecting the then bank bosses extra curricula carnal activities, and giving him a wage !
Given that Corporal Major failed his bus conductor arithmetic test, he could never rise to the dizzy heights of bank clerk: he was given a bank job in return for protecting the then bank bosses extra curricula carnal activities, and giving him a wage !
“Tyler Smiles” by Attila the Stockbroker. Great song. Includes the line “A hand-picked bank clerk holds the line” – that’s John Major.
Brendan O'Leary
1 year ago
No mention of “Ghost Town”? A bigger hit and better song than the others you mentioned.
j watson
1 year ago
The headline contention that she may have won (some) of the economic war, but lost the cultural war does seem to resonant esp for those of us old enough to remember those formative times. But I think important we don’t conflate the culture war back then as equivalent to the woke/anti-woke debate now. The reason she may have lost it is overwhelmingly the country was evolving in a much more ‘liberal’ direction – not entirely unique to the UK. Either end of the extremes of woke/anti-woke do not IMO have anything like the same traction, although the extremes on both sides will be v noisy.
Slightly separate – I was no fan of much, but not all, of the Thatcherism/Neo Liberal drive and consider it sowed the seeds of many of our national problems now, however also sensed some misogyny behind some criticism of the Iron Lady too.
I’d go further – she was a right-wing radical. I never liked her, never voted for her, but after reading this piece I have a certain sympathy for her when she is in sulted by such snobbery. Criticise her policies, not her tastes.
I’d go further – she was a right-wing radical. I never liked her, never voted for her, but after reading this piece I have a certain sympathy for her when she is in sulted by such snobbery. Criticise her policies, not her tastes.
Thatcher was a liberal herself, she conserved nothing
j watson
1 year ago
The headline contention that she may have won (some) of the economic war, but lost the cultural war does seem to resonant esp for those of us old enough to remember those formative times. But I think important we don’t conflate the culture war back then as equivalent to the woke/anti-woke debate now. The reason she may have lost it is overwhelmingly the country was evolving in a much more ‘liberal’ direction – not entirely unique to the UK. Either end of the extremes of woke/anti-woke do not IMO have anything like the same traction, although the extremes on both sides will be v noisy.
Slightly separate – I was no fan of much, but not all, of the Thatcherism/Neo Liberal drive and consider it sowed the seeds of many of our national problems now, however also sensed some misogyny behind some criticism of the Iron Lady too.
Charlie Two
1 year ago
so rich, effete, gormless, public school twats hated her for not being a rich, effete, gormless, public school t**t. and for forcing them to pay for their own entertainment instead of milking the rest of us to fork out for their favourite shite. She’s risen even higher in my estimation now. and what repulsive twats, utterly repulsive twats those gigantic, talentless snobs were (are).
That may be the case, in part, but I was working class – no one went to university before me – Passed the 11+ and very high in all tests thrown at me and so elevate to UNi – but only because the state paid for my education (paid back 100 times in tax) – Thatcher removed this grant from people like me. In my the policies of her governments re-instated the class divides – but I don’t expect any upvotes here in this blinkered forum
That may be the case, in part, but I was working class – no one went to university before me – Passed the 11+ and very high in all tests thrown at me and so elevate to UNi – but only because the state paid for my education (paid back 100 times in tax) – Thatcher removed this grant from people like me. In my the policies of her governments re-instated the class divides – but I don’t expect any upvotes here in this blinkered forum
Charlie Two
1 year ago
so rich, effete, gormless, public school twats hated her for not being a rich, effete, gormless, public school t**t. and for forcing them to pay for their own entertainment instead of milking the rest of us to fork out for their favourite shite. She’s risen even higher in my estimation now. and what repulsive twats, utterly repulsive twats those gigantic, talentless snobs were (are).
John Murray
1 year ago
“Opportunities” by the Pet Shop Boys seems to me to be both a better and far more iconic song then any of the various protest songs that got made. My memory as a kid was that while there was lots of left wing protest art it was all pretty much dretch.
Thought you were joking at first, but in case you’re not:
‘Opportunities… Despite its instant rapport with City traders who drunkenly sang along to it, it was an icy satire on dehumanisation and greed, and ended with the startling lyrics “All the love that we had, and the love that we hide/Who will bury us when we die?” https://thecritic.co.uk/the-politics-of-the-pet-shop-boys/
the Pet Shop Boys were on the left..
Thought you were joking at first, but in case you’re not:
‘Opportunities… Despite its instant rapport with City traders who drunkenly sang along to it, it was an icy satire on dehumanisation and greed, and ended with the startling lyrics “All the love that we had, and the love that we hide/Who will bury us when we die?” https://thecritic.co.uk/the-politics-of-the-pet-shop-boys/
the Pet Shop Boys were on the left..
Last edited 1 year ago by Desmond Wolf
John Murray
1 year ago
“Opportunities” by the Pet Shop Boys seems to me to be both a better and far more iconic song then any of the various protest songs that got made. My memory as a kid was that while there was lots of left wing protest art it was all pretty much dretch.
Adam Bacon
1 year ago
Enjoyed this article, which led me on to the one about Morrissey and how he riled/offended the progressive Left back in 1992.
Never been a huge Morrissey fan, but it was a good album, with some presumably ‘controversial’ lyrics, goading the Leftists I think, and that endeared him to me a bit.
I’d forgotten how they had, within a few short years, utilized the Union flag for their own political purposes, having demonized Morrissey for using it earlier in the same decade!
Adam Bacon
1 year ago
Enjoyed this article, which led me on to the one about Morrissey and how he riled/offended the progressive Left back in 1992.
Never been a huge Morrissey fan, but it was a good album, with some presumably ‘controversial’ lyrics, goading the Leftists I think, and that endeared him to me a bit.
I’d forgotten how they had, within a few short years, utilized the Union flag for their own political purposes, having demonized Morrissey for using it earlier in the same decade!
Zaph Mann
11 months ago
Good writing as usual by Turner, one of the better on Unherd. We may have different politics (he’s cannily hard to pin down) but he’s worth reading and weighing his viewpoints
David Lindsay
1 year ago
Why do I keep having to edit my comments on here in order to put in the paragraphs that had been there when I had submitted them? Does anyone else have that problem?
Anyway, when Margaret Thatcher died, then the hashtag #nowthatcherisdead was taken over by grieving souls who sincerely thought that it had meant “Now that Cher is dead”. If I could turn back time, indeed. We all know about the death parties around bonfires, and about Ding, Dong, The Wicked Witch Is Dead, deprecated even by Dennis Skinner in his memoirs. But time passes, and Thatcher was last depicted on British television, for the first time in quite a while, in December’s Prince Andrew: The Musical, the title of which spoke for itself, and in which she was played by one Baga Chipz, a drag queen.
Of course, gender self-identification is the inexorable logic of the self-made man or the self-made woman, and figure comparable to Thatcher, emerging in the Britain of the 2020s, would be assumed to be a transwoman, just as Thatcher herself emerged in the Britain of everything from Danny La Rue and d**k Emery to David Bowie and The Rocky Horror Show. In a generation’s time, everyone will be saying out loud that Tony Blair had always been as androgynous as Thatcher was. Leo Abse wrote eye-opening books on both of them.
Last edited 1 year ago by David Lindsay
David Lindsay
1 year ago
Why do I keep having to edit my comments on here in order to put in the paragraphs that had been there when I had submitted them? Does anyone else have that problem?
Anyway, when Margaret Thatcher died, then the hashtag #nowthatcherisdead was taken over by grieving souls who sincerely thought that it had meant “Now that Cher is dead”. If I could turn back time, indeed. We all know about the death parties around bonfires, and about Ding, Dong, The Wicked Witch Is Dead, deprecated even by Dennis Skinner in his memoirs. But time passes, and Thatcher was last depicted on British television, for the first time in quite a while, in December’s Prince Andrew: The Musical, the title of which spoke for itself, and in which she was played by one Baga Chipz, a drag queen.
Of course, gender self-identification is the inexorable logic of the self-made man or the self-made woman, and figure comparable to Thatcher, emerging in the Britain of the 2020s, would be assumed to be a transwoman, just as Thatcher herself emerged in the Britain of everything from Danny La Rue and d**k Emery to David Bowie and The Rocky Horror Show. In a generation’s time, everyone will be saying out loud that Tony Blair had always been as androgynous as Thatcher was. Leo Abse wrote eye-opening books on both of them.
Last edited 1 year ago by David Lindsay
David Lindsay
1 year ago
On this, on Buddhism, and on the Wagner Group, my comments have been taken down, in this case within minutes or possibly seconds of having been posted. I pay for this.
Did your comment mention the word “Th*tcher”? That’s an absolute no no in the eyes of the AI moderation software.
To avoid automatic “awaiting moderation” status you must put yourself in the shoes of a Victorian vicar: squ*shy is a bit suspect as a word because it vaguely suggests carnal acts; pud*nda is, of course, verboten. Actually, verb*ten is frowned on because of its possible association, in the fevered imagination of a few, with a certain German dictator.
I currently have a comment awaiting moderation because, I suspect, it includes the word “bl*dgeon” in a metaphoric sense. AI don’t handle metaphor too well.
Chin up. View this as practice for the AI-regulated future that lies ahead.
Did your comment mention the word “Th*tcher”? That’s an absolute no no in the eyes of the AI moderation software.
To avoid automatic “awaiting moderation” status you must put yourself in the shoes of a Victorian vicar: squ*shy is a bit suspect as a word because it vaguely suggests carnal acts; pud*nda is, of course, verboten. Actually, verb*ten is frowned on because of its possible association, in the fevered imagination of a few, with a certain German dictator.
I currently have a comment awaiting moderation because, I suspect, it includes the word “bl*dgeon” in a metaphoric sense. AI don’t handle metaphor too well.
Chin up. View this as practice for the AI-regulated future that lies ahead.
David Lindsay
1 year ago
On this, on Buddhism, and on the Wagner Group, my comments have been taken down, in this case within minutes or possibly seconds of having been posted. I pay for this.
The snobbery of the intelligentsia is breathtaking. Repulsive even.
Why flatter them with their preferred term of “intelligentsia”? There’s a marvellous short story by Chekhov illustrating the useless narcissism of such creatures by comparison with a modest, capable engineer of suburban tastes and origins. They despise him. He dies. Very gloomy. Well, it is Chekhov.
We all know what happened to their unfortunate country, thanks to their political prejudices. Their cohesion, as Solzhenitsyn points out, has and had nothing whatsoever to do with brains or insight. It is a blend of social origins – they all know each other, marry each other, commit adultery with each other, a la Bloomsbury – and ideological recruitment.
Perhaps the most interesting comparison is with that character who ends by cutting down the cherry orchard. He does so, you will recall, from exasperation. In the same spirit, I hope and trust that someone, some day, will thrust our “intelligentsia” out of its position of permanent power.
…the intelligentsia… Repulsive…
I guess James Clayton is a member of the intelligentsia. When he complained to Elon Musk (whilst interviewing him for the BBC) about the increase in hate speech on Twitter and of being a victim of himself, Musk challenged James Clayton to produce an example of hate speech – he couldn’t. The closest he came to producing an example was saying he had received slightly racist and slightly sexist comments. Musk asked James Clayton who was to be the arbiter of hate speech. James Clayton had no answer. He didn’t seem to understand that he, James Clayton, was implicitly claiming to be an arbiter of hate speech by claiming to be a victim of hate speech.
I saw that interview. It was a rather splendid destruction of the “people say that…” school of “journalism”.
Wish Musk had asked Clayton if he liked any blues based rock music as most its seminal songs are more than just ‘slighty sexist’?
I saw that interview. It was a rather splendid destruction of the “people say that…” school of “journalism”.
Wish Musk had asked Clayton if he liked any blues based rock music as most its seminal songs are more than just ‘slighty sexist’?
Jonathan Millar and Dennis Potter and the like engage not so much in virtue signalling as masturbating in public.
Their contempt for Thatcher was only matched by their contempt for the ordinary people of this country who refused to play the respectful prol an old them in the reverence which they think they richly deserve
Why on earth are their views of any interest or relevance?
Thatcher’s first degree was in chemistry. She later took a law degree and qualified as a barrister.
When the arts people sneer that she was stupid, they mean that she was very clever, just not in any way that they understand themselves.
I wish we had more politicians with a scientific education. The best argument for the Lords is that there are people in it like Matt Ridley and Robert Winston who actually know what they are talking about.
I am not sure that would help. James Clayton is the BBC’s technology reporter so presumably, but not necessarily, is a science graduate. I have googled him, but there is virtually no information. I guess he has gone into hiding. I wanted to know where he was indoctrinated.
No evidence I can find that he’s a science graduate – please do share ! He certainly doesn’t behave like a scientist. Making assertions with no evidence and rejecting evidence that doesn’t happen to agree with your prejudices isn’t science. So he’s a perfect BBC appointee – no real domain knowledge or expertise, but feels able to comment as though he’s some sort of authority.
Spot on! Another “loathsome toad” unmasked!
Well done!
Hold on – I’m not saying he doesn’t have a science degree – merely that I cannot tell. I’m an engineer. I try to deal in facts where I can.
However, his immediate predecessor as the BBC’s point man in Silicon Valley was Rory Cellan-Jones. Dulwich and Modern and Mediaeval Languages at Cambridge. Zero technical street cred in the Valley then.
Then there’s Roger Harrabin – the BBC’s main man for energy and the environment. Private school in Coventry and English at Cambridge.
Always dangerous to generalise from a small sample, but technical qualifications don’t appear to be a requirement for reprting on science and technology at the BBC.
Perhaps it’s just career limiting to be known to have a STEM degree at the BBC and he’s just keeping his head down …
Thank you.Point taken.
English at Cambridge and indoctrination is a match with Cathy Newman.
Thank you.Point taken.
English at Cambridge and indoctrination is a match with Cathy Newman.
Hold on – I’m not saying he doesn’t have a science degree – merely that I cannot tell. I’m an engineer. I try to deal in facts where I can.
However, his immediate predecessor as the BBC’s point man in Silicon Valley was Rory Cellan-Jones. Dulwich and Modern and Mediaeval Languages at Cambridge. Zero technical street cred in the Valley then.
Then there’s Roger Harrabin – the BBC’s main man for energy and the environment. Private school in Coventry and English at Cambridge.
Always dangerous to generalise from a small sample, but technical qualifications don’t appear to be a requirement for reprting on science and technology at the BBC.
Perhaps it’s just career limiting to be known to have a STEM degree at the BBC and he’s just keeping his head down …
I made the assumption he has a science degree because he is the technology reporter for the BBC. In the past, it would have been a natural assumption but I am aware of how times have changed which is why I googled him. Having a science degree does not preclude indoctrination. It never did. It is well known, during a certain time period, most German scientists were heavily indoctrinated.
Spot on! Another “loathsome toad” unmasked!
Well done!
I made the assumption he has a science degree because he is the technology reporter for the BBC. In the past, it would have been a natural assumption but I am aware of how times have changed which is why I googled him. Having a science degree does not preclude indoctrination. It never did. It is well known, during a certain time period, most German scientists were heavily indoctrinated.
No evidence I can find that he’s a science graduate – please do share ! He certainly doesn’t behave like a scientist. Making assertions with no evidence and rejecting evidence that doesn’t happen to agree with your prejudices isn’t science. So he’s a perfect BBC appointee – no real domain knowledge or expertise, but feels able to comment as though he’s some sort of authority.
Would Lady Thatcher have fallen for the great COVID scam?
I very much doubt it!
But both those vacuous ‘Arts Graduates’ Johnson & Cummings did, big time, more’s the pity.
I am not sure that would help. James Clayton is the BBC’s technology reporter so presumably, but not necessarily, is a science graduate. I have googled him, but there is virtually no information. I guess he has gone into hiding. I wanted to know where he was indoctrinated.
Would Lady Thatcher have fallen for the great COVID scam?
I very much doubt it!
But both those vacuous ‘Arts Graduates’ Johnson & Cummings did, big time, more’s the pity.
Why flatter them with their preferred term of “intelligentsia”? There’s a marvellous short story by Chekhov illustrating the useless narcissism of such creatures by comparison with a modest, capable engineer of suburban tastes and origins. They despise him. He dies. Very gloomy. Well, it is Chekhov.
We all know what happened to their unfortunate country, thanks to their political prejudices. Their cohesion, as Solzhenitsyn points out, has and had nothing whatsoever to do with brains or insight. It is a blend of social origins – they all know each other, marry each other, commit adultery with each other, a la Bloomsbury – and ideological recruitment.
Perhaps the most interesting comparison is with that character who ends by cutting down the cherry orchard. He does so, you will recall, from exasperation. In the same spirit, I hope and trust that someone, some day, will thrust our “intelligentsia” out of its position of permanent power.
…the intelligentsia… Repulsive…
I guess James Clayton is a member of the intelligentsia. When he complained to Elon Musk (whilst interviewing him for the BBC) about the increase in hate speech on Twitter and of being a victim of himself, Musk challenged James Clayton to produce an example of hate speech – he couldn’t. The closest he came to producing an example was saying he had received slightly racist and slightly sexist comments. Musk asked James Clayton who was to be the arbiter of hate speech. James Clayton had no answer. He didn’t seem to understand that he, James Clayton, was implicitly claiming to be an arbiter of hate speech by claiming to be a victim of hate speech.
Jonathan Millar and Dennis Potter and the like engage not so much in virtue signalling as masturbating in public.
Their contempt for Thatcher was only matched by their contempt for the ordinary people of this country who refused to play the respectful prol an old them in the reverence which they think they richly deserve
Why on earth are their views of any interest or relevance?
Thatcher’s first degree was in chemistry. She later took a law degree and qualified as a barrister.
When the arts people sneer that she was stupid, they mean that she was very clever, just not in any way that they understand themselves.
I wish we had more politicians with a scientific education. The best argument for the Lords is that there are people in it like Matt Ridley and Robert Winston who actually know what they are talking about.
The snobbery of the intelligentsia is breathtaking. Repulsive even.
Interesting to reflect that the arts didn’t do badly in spite of the lack of state sympathy. Or perhaps because of it. I tend to the view that it was more the latter.
Also – whatever happened to kissograms ? I guess that might now qualify as “sexual assault”. Ah, those more liberal, less puritan times under Thatcher (as no one has ever said) !
Interesting to reflect that the arts didn’t do badly in spite of the lack of state sympathy. Or perhaps because of it. I tend to the view that it was more the latter.
Also – whatever happened to kissograms ? I guess that might now qualify as “sexual assault”. Ah, those more liberal, less puritan times under Thatcher (as no one has ever said) !
How did ‘Thatcher lose her culture war’ if culture didn’t much matter to her and it’s not what she was focused on? It was not ‘her war’ albeit a culture war of sorts which was waged on her. From afar, methinks the Brits did not appreciate the ‘paradigm shifter’ that she was. Seems like she was the real revolutionary.
How did ‘Thatcher lose her culture war’ if culture didn’t much matter to her and it’s not what she was focused on? It was not ‘her war’ albeit a culture war of sorts which was waged on her. From afar, methinks the Brits did not appreciate the ‘paradigm shifter’ that she was. Seems like she was the real revolutionary.
No mention of “Ghost Town”? A bigger hit and better song than the others you mentioned.
Or “I’m in love with Margaret Thatcher” by The Notsensibles – possibly ironic.
“Tyler Smiles” by Attila the Stockbroker. Great song. Includes the line “A hand-picked bank clerk holds the line” – that’s John Major.
Given that Corporal Major failed his bus conductor arithmetic test, he could never rise to the dizzy heights of bank clerk: he was given a bank job in return for protecting the then bank bosses extra curricula carnal activities, and giving him a wage !
Given that Corporal Major failed his bus conductor arithmetic test, he could never rise to the dizzy heights of bank clerk: he was given a bank job in return for protecting the then bank bosses extra curricula carnal activities, and giving him a wage !
Or “I’m in love with Margaret Thatcher” by The Notsensibles – possibly ironic.
“Tyler Smiles” by Attila the Stockbroker. Great song. Includes the line “A hand-picked bank clerk holds the line” – that’s John Major.
No mention of “Ghost Town”? A bigger hit and better song than the others you mentioned.
The headline contention that she may have won (some) of the economic war, but lost the cultural war does seem to resonant esp for those of us old enough to remember those formative times. But I think important we don’t conflate the culture war back then as equivalent to the woke/anti-woke debate now. The reason she may have lost it is overwhelmingly the country was evolving in a much more ‘liberal’ direction – not entirely unique to the UK. Either end of the extremes of woke/anti-woke do not IMO have anything like the same traction, although the extremes on both sides will be v noisy.
Slightly separate – I was no fan of much, but not all, of the Thatcherism/Neo Liberal drive and consider it sowed the seeds of many of our national problems now, however also sensed some misogyny behind some criticism of the Iron Lady too.
Thatcher was a liberal herself, she conserved nothing
I’d go further – she was a right-wing radical. I never liked her, never voted for her, but after reading this piece I have a certain sympathy for her when she is in sulted by such snobbery. Criticise her policies, not her tastes.
I’d go further – she was a right-wing radical. I never liked her, never voted for her, but after reading this piece I have a certain sympathy for her when she is in sulted by such snobbery. Criticise her policies, not her tastes.
Thatcher was a liberal herself, she conserved nothing
The headline contention that she may have won (some) of the economic war, but lost the cultural war does seem to resonant esp for those of us old enough to remember those formative times. But I think important we don’t conflate the culture war back then as equivalent to the woke/anti-woke debate now. The reason she may have lost it is overwhelmingly the country was evolving in a much more ‘liberal’ direction – not entirely unique to the UK. Either end of the extremes of woke/anti-woke do not IMO have anything like the same traction, although the extremes on both sides will be v noisy.
Slightly separate – I was no fan of much, but not all, of the Thatcherism/Neo Liberal drive and consider it sowed the seeds of many of our national problems now, however also sensed some misogyny behind some criticism of the Iron Lady too.
so rich, effete, gormless, public school twats hated her for not being a rich, effete, gormless, public school t**t. and for forcing them to pay for their own entertainment instead of milking the rest of us to fork out for their favourite shite. She’s risen even higher in my estimation now. and what repulsive twats, utterly repulsive twats those gigantic, talentless snobs were (are).
That may be the case, in part, but I was working class – no one went to university before me – Passed the 11+ and very high in all tests thrown at me and so elevate to UNi – but only because the state paid for my education (paid back 100 times in tax) – Thatcher removed this grant from people like me. In my the policies of her governments re-instated the class divides – but I don’t expect any upvotes here in this blinkered forum
That may be the case, in part, but I was working class – no one went to university before me – Passed the 11+ and very high in all tests thrown at me and so elevate to UNi – but only because the state paid for my education (paid back 100 times in tax) – Thatcher removed this grant from people like me. In my the policies of her governments re-instated the class divides – but I don’t expect any upvotes here in this blinkered forum
so rich, effete, gormless, public school twats hated her for not being a rich, effete, gormless, public school t**t. and for forcing them to pay for their own entertainment instead of milking the rest of us to fork out for their favourite shite. She’s risen even higher in my estimation now. and what repulsive twats, utterly repulsive twats those gigantic, talentless snobs were (are).
“Opportunities” by the Pet Shop Boys seems to me to be both a better and far more iconic song then any of the various protest songs that got made. My memory as a kid was that while there was lots of left wing protest art it was all pretty much dretch.
Thought you were joking at first, but in case you’re not:
‘Opportunities… Despite its instant rapport with City traders who drunkenly sang along to it, it was an icy satire on dehumanisation and greed, and ended with the startling lyrics “All the love that we had, and the love that we hide/Who will bury us when we die?”
https://thecritic.co.uk/the-politics-of-the-pet-shop-boys/
the Pet Shop Boys were on the left..
Thought you were joking at first, but in case you’re not:
‘Opportunities… Despite its instant rapport with City traders who drunkenly sang along to it, it was an icy satire on dehumanisation and greed, and ended with the startling lyrics “All the love that we had, and the love that we hide/Who will bury us when we die?”
https://thecritic.co.uk/the-politics-of-the-pet-shop-boys/
the Pet Shop Boys were on the left..
“Opportunities” by the Pet Shop Boys seems to me to be both a better and far more iconic song then any of the various protest songs that got made. My memory as a kid was that while there was lots of left wing protest art it was all pretty much dretch.
Enjoyed this article, which led me on to the one about Morrissey and how he riled/offended the progressive Left back in 1992.
Never been a huge Morrissey fan, but it was a good album, with some presumably ‘controversial’ lyrics, goading the Leftists I think, and that endeared him to me a bit.
I’d forgotten how they had, within a few short years, utilized the Union flag for their own political purposes, having demonized Morrissey for using it earlier in the same decade!
Enjoyed this article, which led me on to the one about Morrissey and how he riled/offended the progressive Left back in 1992.
Never been a huge Morrissey fan, but it was a good album, with some presumably ‘controversial’ lyrics, goading the Leftists I think, and that endeared him to me a bit.
I’d forgotten how they had, within a few short years, utilized the Union flag for their own political purposes, having demonized Morrissey for using it earlier in the same decade!
Good writing as usual by Turner, one of the better on Unherd. We may have different politics (he’s cannily hard to pin down) but he’s worth reading and weighing his viewpoints
Why do I keep having to edit my comments on here in order to put in the paragraphs that had been there when I had submitted them? Does anyone else have that problem?
Anyway, when Margaret Thatcher died, then the hashtag #nowthatcherisdead was taken over by grieving souls who sincerely thought that it had meant “Now that Cher is dead”. If I could turn back time, indeed. We all know about the death parties around bonfires, and about Ding, Dong, The Wicked Witch Is Dead, deprecated even by Dennis Skinner in his memoirs. But time passes, and Thatcher was last depicted on British television, for the first time in quite a while, in December’s Prince Andrew: The Musical, the title of which spoke for itself, and in which she was played by one Baga Chipz, a drag queen.
Of course, gender self-identification is the inexorable logic of the self-made man or the self-made woman, and figure comparable to Thatcher, emerging in the Britain of the 2020s, would be assumed to be a transwoman, just as Thatcher herself emerged in the Britain of everything from Danny La Rue and d**k Emery to David Bowie and The Rocky Horror Show. In a generation’s time, everyone will be saying out loud that Tony Blair had always been as androgynous as Thatcher was. Leo Abse wrote eye-opening books on both of them.
Why do I keep having to edit my comments on here in order to put in the paragraphs that had been there when I had submitted them? Does anyone else have that problem?
Anyway, when Margaret Thatcher died, then the hashtag #nowthatcherisdead was taken over by grieving souls who sincerely thought that it had meant “Now that Cher is dead”. If I could turn back time, indeed. We all know about the death parties around bonfires, and about Ding, Dong, The Wicked Witch Is Dead, deprecated even by Dennis Skinner in his memoirs. But time passes, and Thatcher was last depicted on British television, for the first time in quite a while, in December’s Prince Andrew: The Musical, the title of which spoke for itself, and in which she was played by one Baga Chipz, a drag queen.
Of course, gender self-identification is the inexorable logic of the self-made man or the self-made woman, and figure comparable to Thatcher, emerging in the Britain of the 2020s, would be assumed to be a transwoman, just as Thatcher herself emerged in the Britain of everything from Danny La Rue and d**k Emery to David Bowie and The Rocky Horror Show. In a generation’s time, everyone will be saying out loud that Tony Blair had always been as androgynous as Thatcher was. Leo Abse wrote eye-opening books on both of them.
On this, on Buddhism, and on the Wagner Group, my comments have been taken down, in this case within minutes or possibly seconds of having been posted. I pay for this.
Did your comment mention the word “Th*tcher”? That’s an absolute no no in the eyes of the AI moderation software.
To avoid automatic “awaiting moderation” status you must put yourself in the shoes of a Victorian vicar: squ*shy is a bit suspect as a word because it vaguely suggests carnal acts; pud*nda is, of course,
verboten. Actually, verb*ten is frowned on because of its possible association, in the fevered imagination of a few, with a certain German dictator.I currently have a comment awaiting moderation because, I suspect, it includes the word “bl*dgeon” in a metaphoric sense. AI don’t handle metaphor too well.
Chin up. View this as practice for the AI-regulated future that lies ahead.
Dennis Thatcher was lower middle class Kent man from central casting!
What have you got against Mr Thatcher? Unless you posit him as a “power behind the throne” he seemed pretty innocuous.
They wouldn’t thank you for calling them that at Mill Hill.
What have you got against Mr Thatcher? Unless you posit him as a “power behind the throne” he seemed pretty innocuous.
They wouldn’t thank you for calling them that at Mill Hill.
I once was banned from Twitter for a day for suggesting someone was banging their head against a brick wall. Apparently I was encouraging self harm.
Dennis Thatcher was lower middle class Kent man from central casting!
I once was banned from Twitter for a day for suggesting someone was banging their head against a brick wall. Apparently I was encouraging self harm.
Did your comment mention the word “Th*tcher”? That’s an absolute no no in the eyes of the AI moderation software.
To avoid automatic “awaiting moderation” status you must put yourself in the shoes of a Victorian vicar: squ*shy is a bit suspect as a word because it vaguely suggests carnal acts; pud*nda is, of course,
verboten. Actually, verb*ten is frowned on because of its possible association, in the fevered imagination of a few, with a certain German dictator.I currently have a comment awaiting moderation because, I suspect, it includes the word “bl*dgeon” in a metaphoric sense. AI don’t handle metaphor too well.
Chin up. View this as practice for the AI-regulated future that lies ahead.
On this, on Buddhism, and on the Wagner Group, my comments have been taken down, in this case within minutes or possibly seconds of having been posted. I pay for this.