The other face will have controversial lightning-rod front-men or women such as Farage or Keen, but is powered mostly by anonymous social media accounts, whose bios usually carry a plethora of hashtags and insignia announcing their allegiance to campaigns or issues. This side can be swiftly mobilised to fill in petitions, show up to protests, and dogpile opponents. Being anonymous, theyâre also largely exempt in practice if not in theory from the formal rules of liberal civil discourse. As such they serve as crucial shock troops in any single-issue campaign.
But this Janus-faced campaigning model, first seen during the EU referendum, isnât just for dissidents. Rather, its success during Brexit set a new political template that has since been widely adopted. Recently characterised by political economist Thomas Prosser as âlow liberalismâ, this social media-driven form of political discourse pursues liberal aims via sometimes starkly illiberal means, for example the emerging âliberal defence of no-platformingâ, or the wholesale delegitimisation of opponents as evil or bad actors.
Prosser sees low liberalism as emerging in the aftermath of the Trump/Brexit revolt, as a popular defence of the status quo against Right-populism. Its first UK manifestation was probably the #FBPE movement that sprang up, first on social media but subsequently in new publications and sometimes very large street demonstrations, to give mass voice to those who rejected Brexit and sought to reverse the referendum; it has since mutated to encompass multiple issues.
The mob that gathered to dogpile Kellie-Jay Keen in New Zealand over the weekend is a textbook example of low liberalism. And such low-liberal mobs serve exactly the same purpose as any other swarm of hashtag ideologues. That is, they serve as authoritarian shock troops for others who benefit politically from their actions but prefer not to be tainted with their methods. The antipodean politicians and journalists who first demonised Kellie-Jay Keen as undesirable, then refused to condemn the mob who left her in fear for her life, can serenely deny any complicity with the violence unleashed upon her. But I dare say a great many of them privately think what low liberals say out loud: Keen deserved everything she got.
And itâs no use wringing our hands and lamenting the loss of civility in politics. We stopped forming liberal democratic citizens a generation ago, as we began to transition from a print-first to a digital-first culture.
And in this new age, the older norms of neutrality, debate, long-form writing, evidence and so on are meaningful and effective only among a shrinking minority. For this group, the principal vector for political influence isnât the electoral process, but some distance upstream of it. For the rest, whether itâs in service to the onward march of Progress or arrayed against it, demagoguery is the order of the day. Hashtags, video clips, insinuations â and, increasingly, violent mobs.
This post-democratic form of politics now operates by coordinating formal and informal campaign styles, all with the right measure of deniability. You canât move the political needle if you only have internet crazies â because (as the Capitol rioters discovered in America) you can riot all you like but if youâre not backed up by any institutional power, youâre toast. Equally, without a convincingly large mob of online crazies who can be mobilised to defend your programme, youâre vulnerable to accusations of being one of the âsinister elitesâ of conspiracy mythology.
Of course, this game is heavily rigged in favour of one team. Covid debates saw the creeping politicisation of everything propagated, with ever greater shamelessness, under the banner of liberal neutrality. And under this order the Good Internet Crazies, the âlow liberalsâ, are routinely given a pass for levels of illiberalism and overall derangement that would have their enemies permanently tarred as beyond the pale.
But the larger point is that in a digital-first culture, thereâs no stuffing the post-democratic genie back in the bottle. Thereâs nothing to be gained from lamenting the end of civility, or reasoned discourse, much-missed though these are. And thereâs no point complaining about egregious asymmetries in how bad behaviour is punished, between the Good Crazies (who are just passionate) and the Bad Crazies (who are evil). The only way forward is to stop singing threnodies for a vanished political order, and start thinking strategically about how to survive in the one that replaced it.
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SubscribeLove these articles – but Mary does have a bit of a tendency to over-complicate things. The real similarity between Keen and Farage – and Trump ( or Bannon) for that matter – is that they are both defending traditional constitutional democracy from a new and terrifying form of authoritarianism based on government by self-selected elites who impose their rule using methods – such as the enforced lying imposed by trans activism and the uprooting and transfer of large populations – that are borrowed from the great dictators.
We should not be ambivalent about supporting them.
I agree entirely. There is a reason for the new style in the face of those who would betray us right under our noses namely the remain and globalist factor in the tory party. We are terribly blessed by having Posie Parker who says what most of us think. She has practically put her life on the line and we ought to back up her courage by acknowledging the truth she espouses. We shouldn’t be against people of course, just against the lie that is being peddled.
“… borrowed from the great dictators.”
Indeed. Ain’t nuthin’ new about anti-democratic governance.
I wonder why people seem to read things that no-one said into articles so often! Mary Harrington is quite clearly on one side of this debate and didn’t say at any point she didn’t support that side. However she makes the perfectly well argued point, and sadly I think she’s right, that there is no going back to the old politics.
The idea that Trump is supporting constitutional democracy is too laughable for words. His side’s sins and power may be less but sins they are nonetheless. “Who started it” in the US is a complex historical question but the Republicans are certainly not innocent as they strategically weaponised gun owing and abortion which had not been the toxic issues they had before, to offset their disadvantage among urban populations. Threatening to imprison your election opponent, as Trump did in 2016, hardly shows him to be a paragon of constitutional propriety! But it is just too depressing for words how people on the Right still see this primarily self interested and crude individual as a saviour rather than the guarantor of permanent defeat he actually represents. Lots of people love him, far more loathe him. Can we count even?
And when we say “support”, what are we actually doing, other than preaching to the largely converted on here? My depressing analysis is that the woke are winning. They work much harder and have much more strategic nous than the other side, who as your comment showed seem to focus on one or other individual “saviours”. Even if they were political geniuses that wouldn’t be enough, but as with your Mr Trump (or Johnson for that matter) they usually are anything but. The wokistas have by now captured most institutions, it’s a cultural revolution – we might get a few carve outs for women’s sports but that will be about it.
I agree entirely. There is a reason for the new style in the face of those who would betray us right under our noses namely the remain and globalist factor in the tory party. We are terribly blessed by having Posie Parker who says what most of us think. She has practically put her life on the line and we ought to back up her courage by acknowledging the truth she espouses. We shouldn’t be against people of course, just against the lie that is being peddled.
“… borrowed from the great dictators.”
Indeed. Ain’t nuthin’ new about anti-democratic governance.
I wonder why people seem to read things that no-one said into articles so often! Mary Harrington is quite clearly on one side of this debate and didn’t say at any point she didn’t support that side. However she makes the perfectly well argued point, and sadly I think she’s right, that there is no going back to the old politics.
The idea that Trump is supporting constitutional democracy is too laughable for words. His side’s sins and power may be less but sins they are nonetheless. “Who started it” in the US is a complex historical question but the Republicans are certainly not innocent as they strategically weaponised gun owing and abortion which had not been the toxic issues they had before, to offset their disadvantage among urban populations. Threatening to imprison your election opponent, as Trump did in 2016, hardly shows him to be a paragon of constitutional propriety! But it is just too depressing for words how people on the Right still see this primarily self interested and crude individual as a saviour rather than the guarantor of permanent defeat he actually represents. Lots of people love him, far more loathe him. Can we count even?
And when we say “support”, what are we actually doing, other than preaching to the largely converted on here? My depressing analysis is that the woke are winning. They work much harder and have much more strategic nous than the other side, who as your comment showed seem to focus on one or other individual “saviours”. Even if they were political geniuses that wouldn’t be enough, but as with your Mr Trump (or Johnson for that matter) they usually are anything but. The wokistas have by now captured most institutions, it’s a cultural revolution – we might get a few carve outs for women’s sports but that will be about it.
Love these articles – but Mary does have a bit of a tendency to over-complicate things. The real similarity between Keen and Farage – and Trump ( or Bannon) for that matter – is that they are both defending traditional constitutional democracy from a new and terrifying form of authoritarianism based on government by self-selected elites who impose their rule using methods – such as the enforced lying imposed by trans activism and the uprooting and transfer of large populations – that are borrowed from the great dictators.
We should not be ambivalent about supporting them.
There’s a report on BBC (Australia website from 22nd March) of attacks on LBGT groups at a church by far right supporters of One Nation. It references the Posie Parker attack:
“Tuesday’s incident follows last Saturday’s clashes outside the Victorian state parliament in Melbourne between rival protest groups at a “Let Women Speak” event being staged by British activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull.
The presence of neo-Nazis at that event, in apparent support of Ms Keen-Minshull, has triggered a huge backlash, with calls for Victoria to tighten up state laws on the display of hate symbols, including Nazi salutes.
The Australian Liberal Party is also attempting to expel its MP Moira Deeming, who attended the event and was photographed alongside Ms Keen-Minshull.”
Couldn’t see any reports on the attack on Posie Parker, though. Must have escaped their attention.
Another BBC lie then.
I have to say it – the BBC has become a national disgrace.
I have to say it – the BBC has become a national disgrace.
I believe that Melbourne Police subsequently confirmed that there were six different groups holding events outside the Parliament. They also confirmed that the neo-Nazis and Let Women Speak events were not connected and that there was no interaction between them. Not that this was widely reported, or reported at all over here.
I’ll bet my house that the “neo-Nazis” were trans activists false-flagging.
Absolutely correct.
It’s strange that the real, live Nazis
in the Ukrainian army are somehow escaping
the attention of the western media.
Absolutely correct.
And yet somehow, the real live NA ZI S in the Ukrainian army have escaped the attention of the western media.
or agents of Victoria’s very own dictator?
My impression was that the small group were genuine neo-Nazis. But the Oz press falsely implied links with PP.
Absolutely correct.
It’s strange that the real, live Nazis
in the Ukrainian army are somehow escaping
the attention of the western media.
Absolutely correct.
And yet somehow, the real live NA ZI S in the Ukrainian army have escaped the attention of the western media.
or agents of Victoria’s very own dictator?
My impression was that the small group were genuine neo-Nazis. But the Oz press falsely implied links with PP.
“…not widely reported…” is a favorite technique of the powers-that-be; the NYTimes uses it constantly. They count on all those people who get their news from a quick glance at their phones to not notice. Very insidious, very difficult to counter-act.
I’ll bet my house that the “neo-Nazis” were trans activists false-flagging.
“…not widely reported…” is a favorite technique of the powers-that-be; the NYTimes uses it constantly. They count on all those people who get their news from a quick glance at their phones to not notice. Very insidious, very difficult to counter-act.
All of these protests are just indicators of wealthy, decadent societies littered with too many people who don’t have enough to do other than to play with their belly buttons. Serious people have responsibilities and not the time nor interest in what is just pure, unadulterated narcissism.
Extremely well put.
Extremely well put.
I’m pleased to see that the disgraceful attempt to vilify and silence Moira Deeming is rebounding on the appalling John Pesutto.
Another BBC lie then.
I believe that Melbourne Police subsequently confirmed that there were six different groups holding events outside the Parliament. They also confirmed that the neo-Nazis and Let Women Speak events were not connected and that there was no interaction between them. Not that this was widely reported, or reported at all over here.
All of these protests are just indicators of wealthy, decadent societies littered with too many people who don’t have enough to do other than to play with their belly buttons. Serious people have responsibilities and not the time nor interest in what is just pure, unadulterated narcissism.
I’m pleased to see that the disgraceful attempt to vilify and silence Moira Deeming is rebounding on the appalling John Pesutto.
There’s a report on BBC (Australia website from 22nd March) of attacks on LBGT groups at a church by far right supporters of One Nation. It references the Posie Parker attack:
“Tuesday’s incident follows last Saturday’s clashes outside the Victorian state parliament in Melbourne between rival protest groups at a “Let Women Speak” event being staged by British activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull.
The presence of neo-Nazis at that event, in apparent support of Ms Keen-Minshull, has triggered a huge backlash, with calls for Victoria to tighten up state laws on the display of hate symbols, including Nazi salutes.
The Australian Liberal Party is also attempting to expel its MP Moira Deeming, who attended the event and was photographed alongside Ms Keen-Minshull.”
Couldn’t see any reports on the attack on Posie Parker, though. Must have escaped their attention.
There is nothing liberal – low, high, whatever – about these hideous, hateful, violent mobs, or the media that urges them on. Theyâre tribal savages and they are exclusively on the left. For all the bleating about âfar right extremistsâ, you simply donât see this behavior. Even the protest at the US capitol had to be seeded with federal agents who removed barricades, scaled walls when everyone else simply walked up the steps, broke windows when capitol police opened doors through which people calmly walked – and, hard as it is to believe in 21st Century America, there are political prisoners from that day in jail who, for over two years, havenât even been given a trial.
Compare âOccupy Wall Streetâ to the âTea Partyâ movements in the late 2000s. Have a gander at Antifa and CHOP and BLM. Riots, destruction, brutality, bloodshed – all hallmarks of left wing beastliness.
What was done to Posie Parker happens on American college campuses all the time to anyone who deviates from the accepted leftist nonthink. Itâs the Khmer Rouge, but the uniform is in rainbow colors and lipstick now.
Pardon a Brit for asking, but doesn’t your sixth amendment say
‘In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial’ ?
Iâm sorry to have to admit this, but Americans are suffering a post-Constitutional United States run by we know not who.
The rule of law only works if justice departments and district attorney’s apply it. They are no longer on board with it at all.
Iâm sorry to have to admit this, but Americans are suffering a post-Constitutional United States run by we know not who.
The rule of law only works if justice departments and district attorney’s apply it. They are no longer on board with it at all.
Your last sentence made me think of this article: https://areomagazine.com/2023/03/15/cute-authoritarianism/
As time often shows these mobs will eventually reveal themselves to be a covert-right.
You have to be a troll, right?
You have to be a troll, right?
In a similar spirit, I refer to the likes of Greenpeace and Extinction Rebellion as the Vert Rouge.
Pardon a Brit for asking, but doesn’t your sixth amendment say
‘In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial’ ?
Your last sentence made me think of this article: https://areomagazine.com/2023/03/15/cute-authoritarianism/
As time often shows these mobs will eventually reveal themselves to be a covert-right.
In a similar spirit, I refer to the likes of Greenpeace and Extinction Rebellion as the Vert Rouge.
There is nothing liberal – low, high, whatever – about these hideous, hateful, violent mobs, or the media that urges them on. Theyâre tribal savages and they are exclusively on the left. For all the bleating about âfar right extremistsâ, you simply donât see this behavior. Even the protest at the US capitol had to be seeded with federal agents who removed barricades, scaled walls when everyone else simply walked up the steps, broke windows when capitol police opened doors through which people calmly walked – and, hard as it is to believe in 21st Century America, there are political prisoners from that day in jail who, for over two years, havenât even been given a trial.
Compare âOccupy Wall Streetâ to the âTea Partyâ movements in the late 2000s. Have a gander at Antifa and CHOP and BLM. Riots, destruction, brutality, bloodshed – all hallmarks of left wing beastliness.
What was done to Posie Parker happens on American college campuses all the time to anyone who deviates from the accepted leftist nonthink. Itâs the Khmer Rouge, but the uniform is in rainbow colors and lipstick now.
This is a report of an incident in Newquay, where demonstrators both opposed and supported asylum seekers.
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/newquay-asylum-seeker-protests-violence-8291143
‘A local woman was also shoved and knocked to the ground by one of the anti-fascist group in black with his face covered. The incident was witnessed by CornwallLive. The culprit disappeared into the crowd. The victim did not want to speak about it.’
It’s an odd perversion of language when a man in black uniform and ski mask commits assault and is called ‘anti-fascist’
Somewhat Orwellian, I’d say.
He wasn’t wearing a brown shirt y’see.
Mussolini’s thugs wore black shirts, as did Oswald Moseley’s BUF lampooned by P.G.Wodehouse as Roderick Spode and the Blackshorts.
Mussolini’s thugs wore black shirts, as did Oswald Moseley’s BUF lampooned by P.G.Wodehouse as Roderick Spode and the Blackshorts.
Somewhat Orwellian, I’d say.
He wasn’t wearing a brown shirt y’see.
This is a report of an incident in Newquay, where demonstrators both opposed and supported asylum seekers.
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/newquay-asylum-seeker-protests-violence-8291143
‘A local woman was also shoved and knocked to the ground by one of the anti-fascist group in black with his face covered. The incident was witnessed by CornwallLive. The culprit disappeared into the crowd. The victim did not want to speak about it.’
It’s an odd perversion of language when a man in black uniform and ski mask commits assault and is called ‘anti-fascist’
At the end of the day all that really matters is who has the guns. Things are going to get worse until society breaks down. In the US it is âthe deplorablesâ who have the guns. They are the army members, police officers, and million and millions of citizens. In most other countries it is people who live in the country. I donât know where all this will end – but my guess is that deplorables are generally better at violence than progressives.
At a human scale you mean? Nothing wrong with the warmongering efforts of the progressivesâŠ
Give the technocrats a few more years marrying Boston Dynamics with ChatGPT and guns won’t be enough.
Deplorables donât control the army, police or the deep state. And the guns of the local deplorable is no use against the state.
Vietnam? Afghanistan?
Vietnam? Afghanistan?
At a human scale you mean? Nothing wrong with the warmongering efforts of the progressivesâŠ
Give the technocrats a few more years marrying Boston Dynamics with ChatGPT and guns won’t be enough.
Deplorables donât control the army, police or the deep state. And the guns of the local deplorable is no use against the state.
At the end of the day all that really matters is who has the guns. Things are going to get worse until society breaks down. In the US it is âthe deplorablesâ who have the guns. They are the army members, police officers, and million and millions of citizens. In most other countries it is people who live in the country. I donât know where all this will end – but my guess is that deplorables are generally better at violence than progressives.
The comparison with Farage is unfair. He has always engaged in rational argument. That’s why he was feared and hated.
So does Posy Parker.
Kellie-Jay Keen engages in rational argument too.
So does Posy Parker.
Kellie-Jay Keen engages in rational argument too.
The comparison with Farage is unfair. He has always engaged in rational argument. That’s why he was feared and hated.
I found this article extremely depressing. I have not given up on open debate and civil discourse, and if, as a society, we do then the future is bleak; it will be the one’s with the biggest guns who win – and that could well not be you. I also wonder about the effect of Twitter outside the Twitter-sphere itself; according to statistics from the web-site Social Shepherd (an organisation that offers advice on social media advertising), in the US 10% of users post over 90% of tweets, so it seems that they are talking to each other not the general populus. Some quick anecdata (I love this word which someone on here posted, I hope you don’t mind my using it) – some time last year, purely for my own interest I asked my friends/family who are on Twitter when they last used it; not one had used it in the previous month and only one in the previous two months, most had not used it since the lifting of lockdown.
I agree with you, I have not given up on open debate, civility, objectivity and free speech either. We may or may not ultimately succeed, but our remit is clear: keep fighting for and pushing for open and honest debate in all circumstances, no holds barred, no caveats.
“anecdata” is go!! Lift-off!!
I agree with you, I have not given up on open debate, civility, objectivity and free speech either. We may or may not ultimately succeed, but our remit is clear: keep fighting for and pushing for open and honest debate in all circumstances, no holds barred, no caveats.
“anecdata” is go!! Lift-off!!
I found this article extremely depressing. I have not given up on open debate and civil discourse, and if, as a society, we do then the future is bleak; it will be the one’s with the biggest guns who win – and that could well not be you. I also wonder about the effect of Twitter outside the Twitter-sphere itself; according to statistics from the web-site Social Shepherd (an organisation that offers advice on social media advertising), in the US 10% of users post over 90% of tweets, so it seems that they are talking to each other not the general populus. Some quick anecdata (I love this word which someone on here posted, I hope you don’t mind my using it) – some time last year, purely for my own interest I asked my friends/family who are on Twitter when they last used it; not one had used it in the previous month and only one in the previous two months, most had not used it since the lifting of lockdown.
The term ‘low liberalism’ cited here is I think generous. For one thing the recourse to paramilitary tactics to attack opponents, not just in debate but via intimidation and actual planned violence, is surely anathema to any understanding of liberalism. Yet this form of activism is increasingly the norm, encouraged and promoted by influential sectors of society, including academia and the media. Arguably the scariest aspect of what we have seen though, in many western countries, including what used to be the sanest of them, is that the leftist parties and political establishments are implicitly supporting the adoption of this form of progressive fascism. When Antifa and BLM terrorise neighbourhoods and burn down whole neighbourhoods in the US, they receive nothing but understanding, encouragement and praise from the Democratic party; the UK Labour party is nowhere to be seen when university platforms are robustly cleansed of non-fellow travellers; and now in Australia and New Zealand political violence is both implicitly and explicitly supported by the new leftist powers that be there. If the left really wants to demonise the ‘far right’ it should embrace respectful democratic principles, not fascism dressed up unconvincingly as liberalism. .
The term ‘low liberalism’ cited here is I think generous. For one thing the recourse to paramilitary tactics to attack opponents, not just in debate but via intimidation and actual planned violence, is surely anathema to any understanding of liberalism. Yet this form of activism is increasingly the norm, encouraged and promoted by influential sectors of society, including academia and the media. Arguably the scariest aspect of what we have seen though, in many western countries, including what used to be the sanest of them, is that the leftist parties and political establishments are implicitly supporting the adoption of this form of progressive fascism. When Antifa and BLM terrorise neighbourhoods and burn down whole neighbourhoods in the US, they receive nothing but understanding, encouragement and praise from the Democratic party; the UK Labour party is nowhere to be seen when university platforms are robustly cleansed of non-fellow travellers; and now in Australia and New Zealand political violence is both implicitly and explicitly supported by the new leftist powers that be there. If the left really wants to demonise the ‘far right’ it should embrace respectful democratic principles, not fascism dressed up unconvincingly as liberalism. .
“Thereâs nothing to be gained from lamenting the end of civility, or reasoned discourse, much-missed though these are”.
Perhaps, but that doesn’t stop me from being all bitter and twisted about that loss.
_________________________
All neighbourly content and easy talk are gone,
But there’s no good complaining, for money’s rant is on.
He that’s mounting up must on his neighbour mount,
And we and all the Muses are things of no account.
They have schooling of their own, but I pass their schooling by,
What can they know that we know that know the time to die?
O what of that, O what of that,
What is there left to say?
— William Butler Yeats
“Thereâs nothing to be gained from lamenting the end of civility, or reasoned discourse, much-missed though these are”.
Perhaps, but that doesn’t stop me from being all bitter and twisted about that loss.
_________________________
All neighbourly content and easy talk are gone,
But there’s no good complaining, for money’s rant is on.
He that’s mounting up must on his neighbour mount,
And we and all the Muses are things of no account.
They have schooling of their own, but I pass their schooling by,
What can they know that we know that know the time to die?
O what of that, O what of that,
What is there left to say?
— William Butler Yeats
We have become a bureaucratic oligarchy where those running organisations do so for their benefit. If immigration reduced salary, status and security of those running organisations there would no immigration. As Cicero said Cui Bono ? What we should add is who is advantaged and who is disadvantaged?
As Orwell said the intelligentsia live in world of ideas divorced from physical reality. The more someone lives in a virtual world the less they are capable of dealing with the physical. Putin’s invasion of the Ukraine shows what happens when the phyical world is treated with contempt.
G M Trevelyan was concerned that the massive increase in education would produce an intellectual proletariat. What we appear to have is group of upper middle university graduates from top universities using an intellectual proletariat with poor quality secondary and tertiary education as enforcers to impose their will on the blue collar manual workers and those who disagree with them. The French and Communist revolutionaries, largely from a middle to upper middle class background used criminals and unskilled workers from the slums to use savage violence to impose their will on the population.
The modern equivalent appears to be an army of young men, labelled asylum seekers.
The middle class intelligentsia are not physicall tough and do not undertake acts of violence themselves but they are good at recruiting those who enjoy violence and want to conceal it under some cloak of moral intellectual or divine superiority( The Inquisition).
We are in a similar situation to a family firm in the third or older generation. There are many family members who draw dividends but do not have the ability to undertake constructive industrious activity. If one studies the vast number of post 14 years of age arts and humanities courses in the Western world they are are a liability not an asset in maintaining civilisation. Latin and Greek helps one learn other languages and understand peoples of different civilisations.Someone who leaves school and enters the high quality apprenticeships offered in Switzerland are assets.
This violence by the Woke left is a projection of the self hatred of vast majority of the inadequate affluent middle class because they are effete, ineffectual and impractical. The affete Left. Compare the Woke Left with say Florence Nightingale( born in wealth) or George Stephenson( born in poverty and illiterate until the age of 18 years) whose industry, practical skill and courage( Stephenson risked his life to save miners) improved the quality of lives of millions.
The middle class intelligentsia are not physicall tough and do not undertake acts of violence themselves but they are good at recruiting those who enjoy violence and want to conceal it under some cloak of moral intellectual or divine superiority( The Inquisition).
We are in a similar situation to a family firm in the third or older generation. There are many family members who draw dividends but do not have the ability to undertake constructive industrious activity. If one studies the vast number of post 14 years of age arts and humanities courses in the Western world they are are a liability not an asset in maintaining civilisation. Latin and Greek helps one learn other languages and understand peoples of different civilisations.Someone who leaves school and enters the high quality apprenticeships offered in Switzerland are assets.
This violence by the Woke left is a projection of the self hatred of vast majority of the inadequate affluent middle class because they are effete, ineffectual and impractical. The affete Left. Compare the Woke Left with say Florence Nightingale( born in wealth) or George Stephenson( born in poverty and illiterate until the age of 18 years) whose industry, practical skill and courage( Stephenson risked his life to save miners) improved the quality of lives of millions.
The modern equivalent appears to be an army of young men, labelled asylum seekers.
We have become a bureaucratic oligarchy where those running organisations do so for their benefit. If immigration reduced salary, status and security of those running organisations there would no immigration. As Cicero said Cui Bono ? What we should add is who is advantaged and who is disadvantaged?
As Orwell said the intelligentsia live in world of ideas divorced from physical reality. The more someone lives in a virtual world the less they are capable of dealing with the physical. Putin’s invasion of the Ukraine shows what happens when the phyical world is treated with contempt.
G M Trevelyan was concerned that the massive increase in education would produce an intellectual proletariat. What we appear to have is group of upper middle university graduates from top universities using an intellectual proletariat with poor quality secondary and tertiary education as enforcers to impose their will on the blue collar manual workers and those who disagree with them. The French and Communist revolutionaries, largely from a middle to upper middle class background used criminals and unskilled workers from the slums to use savage violence to impose their will on the population.
I am not ready to give up civility, reason, and open discourse, even if I sometimes predict that those of us who feel this way will have to create our own subculture within society where we uphold these values. I also do not feel we have the luxury of choosing just one group that is fighting for women’s rights in the face of many challenges from activists and ideologically captured institutions, from the government to education and the corporate world. That is why I support Kellie Jay Keen, Sex Matters, JK Rowling, Julie Bindel, and other groups who are campaigning against these incursions into women’s private spaces. Am I uneasy sharing this perspective with some members of the Right? Yes, but I can’t let that put me off. I make no common cause with hard right conservatives or ‘neo-nazis’ certainly, but if they agree on this issue I can’t afford to worry about it. More than anything, this points up the betrayal many women feel that we are no longer a priority or perhaps even a concern at all for the Liberal Left.
I agree with your sentiments.
I can’t speak for the liberal left as I am not one.
I also do not recognise Keen as a sort of Farage figure either, apart from some superficial modes of speech.
And neither do I see any water between Keen and Sex Matters. Indeed, Helen Joyce is pretty K-J Keen style plain speaking on these matters, and she is a part of Sex matters.
In fact, I have listened to much of Keen’s output on YouTube and in interviews and what is at the heart of her outspoken, frank delivery claims, is the primacy of biological sex and its relationship to truth and its consequences for the existence of men and women in society. And this is also the case with Sex Matters IMO.
Yes, I agree completely. I am American and therefore not as well versed on Farage and his particularities as I ought to be, but my gut instinct was that it was an odd comparison. Did Farage have a broad populist appeal across the political spectrum on the Brexit issue that made some on the British left feel a bit uneasy that they agreed with him on something?
It wasn’t the British left that agreed with him, rather those traditional Labour supporters in towns ‘left behind’ by de-industrialisation (the Red Wall) who couldn’t support the stance of the Labour party to try to overturn the result of the referendum.
I see, thank you.
The ‘Red Wall’ population tend to be traditional leftists ie culturally conservative but economically leftist (in favour of strong labour protection etc.). 50 years ago Labour were more against open borders, the formative EU, etc. than the Conservatives were (they recognised that a welfare state needed nation states with stable populations, shared values etc. In those days the mantra was not ‘diversity’ but ‘unity’).
The ‘Red Wall’ population tend to be traditional leftists ie culturally conservative but economically leftist (in favour of strong labour protection etc.). 50 years ago Labour were more against open borders, the formative EU, etc. than the Conservatives were (they recognised that a welfare state needed nation states with stable populations, shared values etc. In those days the mantra was not ‘diversity’ but ‘unity’).
I see, thank you.
It wasn’t the British left that agreed with him, rather those traditional Labour supporters in towns ‘left behind’ by de-industrialisation (the Red Wall) who couldn’t support the stance of the Labour party to try to overturn the result of the referendum.
Yes, I agree completely. I am American and therefore not as well versed on Farage and his particularities as I ought to be, but my gut instinct was that it was an odd comparison. Did Farage have a broad populist appeal across the political spectrum on the Brexit issue that made some on the British left feel a bit uneasy that they agreed with him on something?
I agree with your sentiments.
I can’t speak for the liberal left as I am not one.
I also do not recognise Keen as a sort of Farage figure either, apart from some superficial modes of speech.
And neither do I see any water between Keen and Sex Matters. Indeed, Helen Joyce is pretty K-J Keen style plain speaking on these matters, and she is a part of Sex matters.
In fact, I have listened to much of Keen’s output on YouTube and in interviews and what is at the heart of her outspoken, frank delivery claims, is the primacy of biological sex and its relationship to truth and its consequences for the existence of men and women in society. And this is also the case with Sex Matters IMO.
I am not ready to give up civility, reason, and open discourse, even if I sometimes predict that those of us who feel this way will have to create our own subculture within society where we uphold these values. I also do not feel we have the luxury of choosing just one group that is fighting for women’s rights in the face of many challenges from activists and ideologically captured institutions, from the government to education and the corporate world. That is why I support Kellie Jay Keen, Sex Matters, JK Rowling, Julie Bindel, and other groups who are campaigning against these incursions into women’s private spaces. Am I uneasy sharing this perspective with some members of the Right? Yes, but I can’t let that put me off. I make no common cause with hard right conservatives or ‘neo-nazis’ certainly, but if they agree on this issue I can’t afford to worry about it. More than anything, this points up the betrayal many women feel that we are no longer a priority or perhaps even a concern at all for the Liberal Left.
“Threnodies”. What a great word. I had to look that up. Greek for ‘durge songs’.
Me too.. what a lovely word.
Indeed. Which reminds me: i really should stop imploring contributors to Comments to keep the discourse away from the wild-west extremes of Twitter.
Mary Harrington thinks it’s a waste of time, and having read today’s article on time prior to this one, she’s probably right.
‘dirge songs’.
Cool. I have an editor.
Cool. I have an editor.
Me too.. what a lovely word.
Indeed. Which reminds me: i really should stop imploring contributors to Comments to keep the discourse away from the wild-west extremes of Twitter.
Mary Harrington thinks it’s a waste of time, and having read today’s article on time prior to this one, she’s probably right.
‘dirge songs’.
“Threnodies”. What a great word. I had to look that up. Greek for ‘durge songs’.
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/03/guest_post_why_i_wanted_to_speak_in_albert_park_and_why_the_real_fascists_are_the_rainbow-draped_thugs.html
This is a personal account of a lady who would have spoken at the event.
Her plea to the government at the end says it all.
I know why she is concerned.
I also have taken the time to read Gen Zer’s views of why Gender should be eschewed. The article I found on the BBC is a mixture of strawman and overthinking.
They really have not got it that in the West woman and men can do whatever they like, wear whatever they like, and express themselves however they want but that does not change the fact that there are just two biological sexes with a handful of medically intersexed people. They seem entirely caught up with labels rather than just forming a relationship with the human experience and getting on with their lives which is deeply ironic because they always begin these discussions with the issue of “Labels” and why they feel they constrain them.
My question to them is simple which human activity are you unable to fulfill your potential in because you are either a man or a woman?
That unspoken speech by Caitlin Griffin is well-worth reading. Thank you MIchelle Johnston for the link.
That unspoken speech by Caitlin Griffin is well-worth reading. Thank you MIchelle Johnston for the link.
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/03/guest_post_why_i_wanted_to_speak_in_albert_park_and_why_the_real_fascists_are_the_rainbow-draped_thugs.html
This is a personal account of a lady who would have spoken at the event.
Her plea to the government at the end says it all.
I know why she is concerned.
I also have taken the time to read Gen Zer’s views of why Gender should be eschewed. The article I found on the BBC is a mixture of strawman and overthinking.
They really have not got it that in the West woman and men can do whatever they like, wear whatever they like, and express themselves however they want but that does not change the fact that there are just two biological sexes with a handful of medically intersexed people. They seem entirely caught up with labels rather than just forming a relationship with the human experience and getting on with their lives which is deeply ironic because they always begin these discussions with the issue of “Labels” and why they feel they constrain them.
My question to them is simple which human activity are you unable to fulfill your potential in because you are either a man or a woman?
In the 1970s, the Telegraph had a satirical columnist called Peter Simple. The column was Way of the World. Left wing socialists were the usual butt and one group he especially used was Rentamob, a group who could be relied on to turn up at short notice to turn peaceful protests into running battles. Rentamob is still very much alive and kicking. Busy in France last week, clearly busy down under too. British protesters have learned to be wary of Rentamob who have wrecked many a well-intentioned demo over the years. Nothing changes, pace Ms Harrington, it’s just that every generation has to re-learn things.
Ah, thanks for reminding me.
Peter Simple also had a fanciful story of Aztec immigrants to Britain who demanded the right to do human sacrifice, because it was a part of their religion.
Satire is dead now.
If you go to events like the LGB Alliance conferences and mingle with the protesters you will see many familiar faces from anti-Huntington Life Sciences protests etc around Cambridge, and Stalinist remnant hanger-on groups in London. Most are older, white, and certainly not trans. One of them used to be an extremist Muslim of some kind but I think they booted him out – he was lampooned in the ‘Four Lions’ film as Barry.
I saw Rentamob in Hyde Park once. A bunch of American accented weak looking men dressed in ‘black bloc’. Not sure who hired them.
Ah, thanks for reminding me.
Peter Simple also had a fanciful story of Aztec immigrants to Britain who demanded the right to do human sacrifice, because it was a part of their religion.
Satire is dead now.
If you go to events like the LGB Alliance conferences and mingle with the protesters you will see many familiar faces from anti-Huntington Life Sciences protests etc around Cambridge, and Stalinist remnant hanger-on groups in London. Most are older, white, and certainly not trans. One of them used to be an extremist Muslim of some kind but I think they booted him out – he was lampooned in the ‘Four Lions’ film as Barry.
I saw Rentamob in Hyde Park once. A bunch of American accented weak looking men dressed in ‘black bloc’. Not sure who hired them.
In the 1970s, the Telegraph had a satirical columnist called Peter Simple. The column was Way of the World. Left wing socialists were the usual butt and one group he especially used was Rentamob, a group who could be relied on to turn up at short notice to turn peaceful protests into running battles. Rentamob is still very much alive and kicking. Busy in France last week, clearly busy down under too. British protesters have learned to be wary of Rentamob who have wrecked many a well-intentioned demo over the years. Nothing changes, pace Ms Harrington, it’s just that every generation has to re-learn things.
‘we began to transition from a print-first to a digital-first culture.’ I think it’s more to do with the transition from the age of reason to the ‘age of feelings’.
Brought about by ‘digital-first’ culture. Cause and effect.
I think the transition to an emotion-first society started being visible to me from the early 90s (and has roots prior to that) which predates social media by a decade or so. What I would say is that the rise of digital culture and social media put that emotion-first movement on steroids so I can how it would seem that way.
I think the transition to an emotion-first society started being visible to me from the early 90s (and has roots prior to that) which predates social media by a decade or so. What I would say is that the rise of digital culture and social media put that emotion-first movement on steroids so I can how it would seem that way.
Brought about by ‘digital-first’ culture. Cause and effect.
‘we began to transition from a print-first to a digital-first culture.’ I think it’s more to do with the transition from the age of reason to the ‘age of feelings’.
Thereâs nothing to be gained from lamenting the end of civility, or reasoned discourse, much-missed though these are….
Is that true to say though, that previously we had reasoned discourse and civility?
The history of most countries is full of riots, political clashes, assassination of political leaders, lots of shouting at each other and wars.
I think the Internet has made it easier to discuss politics, and like here, not just with people local to you but with people all over the world. The more you expand the debate globally like this, the more likely it is you will see clashes between different cultures and politics. It also makes it easier to export political movements.
At the moment, there has been real censorship of one side of the debate in some cases, if you are on the side getting censored it’s very frustrating, I have sympathy with those that get frustrated with this and perhaps people are not as civil as they would be had they been allowed to fairly participate in the first place.
My background is in academic philosophy, and yet I consider it right and proper to engage in the vitriolic abuse of the woke, because they’re f a s c i s t s c u m.
ACHTUNG! âRubberâ has returned.
Part of the shock troops?
I like playing debate Mr Craven. I’m waiting for him to philosophically blow my mind. Any day now.
What purpose is served by trying to reason with someone who thinks that everything is the fault of white men, that rapists should be imprisoned with women, and that children should be sexualised, drugged, and mutilated?
What purpose is served by trying to reason with someone who thinks that everything is the fault of white men, that rapists should be imprisoned with women, and that children should be sexualised, drugged, and mutilated?
So it would appear.
Do you want me to leave you and your little club alone now? I’m nearly bored.
Rest assured, the feeling is entirely mutual.
You bothered my post Mr Craven. I thought you were up for some sport, see my post right at the bottom. You are disappointing me.
whatever
I think as the resident millennial here that is supposed to be my line.
I think as the resident millennial here that is supposed to be my line.
whatever
You bothered my post Mr Craven. I thought you were up for some sport, see my post right at the bottom. You are disappointing me.
Rest assured, the feeling is entirely mutual.
Do you want me to leave you and your little club alone now? I’m nearly bored.
Part of the shock troops?
I like playing debate Mr Craven. I’m waiting for him to philosophically blow my mind. Any day now.
So it would appear.
I see you are still feeling eloquent Mr Craven.
I am probably guilty of a bit of vitriolic abuse myself at times.
Perhaps you could utilise your philosophical brain to refute and destroy the woke arguments you don’t like with persuasive and eloquent arguments of your own instead of the old scum insults, but you know, whatever you feel like.
That’s like saying that Hitler should have been refuted by philosophical argument. True, he should have been and he was, however that was not sufficient as we found out. Unfortunately war was required. Alas, refuting and destroying woke arguments is fine for those of us who still believe in argument, but it has no effect on the wokies themselves who have left rational argument long behind. Rationality is a System of Oppression after all. Unfortunately the time comes when woke mobs are going to have to be physically defeated, not just politely refuted.
Jesus, you’re a bit militant sounding. I haven’t actually seen any actual mobs of woke people that might need defeating, wandering the British countryside.
So on the unherd community board you think it is better to refer to people you don’t agree with as scum, rather than doing the decent thing and engaging in rigourous political debate?
What does any of this have to do with Hitler?
Rationality is a system of oppression, what on earth are you getting at there?
Is the word “Jesus” meaningful in this context?
Yes. As in jesus christ this is exasperating.
It’s better than wake the f*ck up to what is actually happening, have you not been paying attention. But nobody really wants to do that.
It’s much easier to throw the word s c u m around and continue your blissful existence.
Yes. As in jesus christ this is exasperating.
It’s better than wake the f*ck up to what is actually happening, have you not been paying attention. But nobody really wants to do that.
It’s much easier to throw the word s c u m around and continue your blissful existence.
Re your last para, he’s being sarcastic (ie presenting a Woke viewpoint).
Thanks Einstein. I got that.
I was being lazy, seeing if the poster understood what they were spouting about Rationality and Hitler. They started off badly by saying philosophical argument should be tried, which is what I am pleading for anyway, just a sensible approach to all this, I just want you to think about what you are saying. And then they said it wasn’t enough and war was required, so I assumed they were one of the American civil war type nutters that just want to fight the ‘woke’ and assumes that every single democratic voting person in the US ie: the woke, have completely departed sanity and reason and so it’s not worth bothering engaging with them. I can see democracy working really well when we have reached this point.
Thanks Einstein. I got that.
I was being lazy, seeing if the poster understood what they were spouting about Rationality and Hitler. They started off badly by saying philosophical argument should be tried, which is what I am pleading for anyway, just a sensible approach to all this, I just want you to think about what you are saying. And then they said it wasn’t enough and war was required, so I assumed they were one of the American civil war type nutters that just want to fight the ‘woke’ and assumes that every single democratic voting person in the US ie: the woke, have completely departed sanity and reason and so it’s not worth bothering engaging with them. I can see democracy working really well when we have reached this point.
Is the word “Jesus” meaningful in this context?
Re your last para, he’s being sarcastic (ie presenting a Woke viewpoint).
Jesus, you’re a bit militant sounding. I haven’t actually seen any actual mobs of woke people that might need defeating, wandering the British countryside.
So on the unherd community board you think it is better to refer to people you don’t agree with as scum, rather than doing the decent thing and engaging in rigourous political debate?
What does any of this have to do with Hitler?
Rationality is a system of oppression, what on earth are you getting at there?
Civil discourse is entirely inappropriate for dealing with the woke. We need to treat them as misogynistic and racist apologists for the sexualisation, drugging, and mutilation of children, because that is exactly what they are.
Mr Craven. You are one of those I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall with. My last post was lazy. Let me try harder. One last time.
Right. Woke is an American construct. Although we do seem to have imported a bit of this crazy militant progressive business, I think it is a bit far to say that we may need to physically over come mobs of woke people in Britain. If anything, the defeat of sturgeons gender bill and the fact that people came out to peacefully protest against it, is a good example of us actually not really adopting American woke progressive politics.
So, we do not want to stoop to their level do we? The militant progressive movements are not always inclined to engage in debate, they are a bit militant and crazy, but that doesn’t mean we also need to resort to their tactics does it?
I’ve seen you call people woke s*um (sorry apparently sc*m makes this go to awaiting approval?) for a myriad of pretty unfair reasons. Not everybody spouting left wing political ideas or worried about racism, or the far right, or men being morons, or worried about certain aspects of the environment, is a militant woke nutter. There is a lot of confusion about what is left, right, woke, not woke I feel. America exporting this stuff really doesn’t help with the confusion.
You love a sweeping statement. I find it narrow minded.
The circus of the absurd continues and will continue until this nonsense is confronted directly for the fraudulent weaponized ideology that it is. The world is now going to have to confront that lunatic and insane people are driving public policy and that politicians are seemingly in a zombie-like state going with it. Normal-thinking people are so distracted that they either donât care via apathy, donât know how to confront this lunacy, or simply wish it to continue for fear of being canceled. Fearlessness in the face of this mind virus needs to be demanded.
Well said. We need to be MUCH more confrontational towards these our souls.
I see you are all down voting my post and have not been bothered to actually propose anything sensible apart demanding fearlessness or suggesting you cannot reason with these people. Well wow, that’s ground breaking. I can see our problems will be solved quickly like that, that’s the kind of out the box thinking we need.
This ‘nonsense’ will always be a problem as long as people continue to glue themselves to television and mass media. TV is the main mass programming device rapidly being replaced by social media and the Internet. Twitter files for example showed that twitter was biased towards the democratic party, who, surprise, surprise, love the woke idealogy.
‘I hardly write any stories anymore and I don’t work on songs quite as intently as I did in the past. You want to know why???? TELEVISION. Television is the most evil thing on our planet. Go to your TV now and toss it out the window’ – Kurt Cobain.
Quote:
âThis psychological bombardment is waged primarily via the mainstream media which assaults the viewer by the hour with images of violence, war, emotions and conflict. Because the human nervous system is hard wired to focus on immediate threats accompanied by depictions of violence, mainstream media viewers have their attention and mental resources funneled into the never-ending âcrisis of the NOWâ from which they can never have the mental breathing room to apply logic, reason or historical context.â
Professor Jacques Ellul studied this phenomenon of overwhelming news, short memories and the use of propaganda to advance hidden agendas. âOne thought drives away another; old facts are chased by new ones,â wrote Ellul.
All the while, the government continues to amass more power and authority over the citizenry
Ultimately, the reality shows, the entertainment news, the surveillance society, the militarized police, and the political spectacles have one common objective: to keep us divided, distracted, imprisoned, and incapable of taking an active role in the business of self-government.
Look behind the political spectacles, the reality TV theatrics, the sleight-of-hand distractions and diversions, and the stomach-churning, nail-biting drama, and you will find there is a method to the madness.
How do you change the way people think? You start by changing the words they use….. ‘
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/state-never-ending-crisis-government-fomenting-mass-hysteria
DISTRACTED.
DIVIDED.
You are like clay in their hands.
The woke stuff here if you really want to know my honest suspicion, is to keep us ‘idealogically aligned’ with America, because they want us to fight the east with them. The woke nutters are already shutting down anti war protests over there, they are useful idiots. You are also useful idiots, just for the other side, when they think they need you to cause a bit more division. They will continue to play you all off against each other, make money and retain power by doing so. Cynical humble opinion.
Well said. We need to be MUCH more confrontational towards these our souls.
I see you are all down voting my post and have not been bothered to actually propose anything sensible apart demanding fearlessness or suggesting you cannot reason with these people. Well wow, that’s ground breaking. I can see our problems will be solved quickly like that, that’s the kind of out the box thinking we need.
This ‘nonsense’ will always be a problem as long as people continue to glue themselves to television and mass media. TV is the main mass programming device rapidly being replaced by social media and the Internet. Twitter files for example showed that twitter was biased towards the democratic party, who, surprise, surprise, love the woke idealogy.
‘I hardly write any stories anymore and I don’t work on songs quite as intently as I did in the past. You want to know why???? TELEVISION. Television is the most evil thing on our planet. Go to your TV now and toss it out the window’ – Kurt Cobain.
Quote:
âThis psychological bombardment is waged primarily via the mainstream media which assaults the viewer by the hour with images of violence, war, emotions and conflict. Because the human nervous system is hard wired to focus on immediate threats accompanied by depictions of violence, mainstream media viewers have their attention and mental resources funneled into the never-ending âcrisis of the NOWâ from which they can never have the mental breathing room to apply logic, reason or historical context.â
Professor Jacques Ellul studied this phenomenon of overwhelming news, short memories and the use of propaganda to advance hidden agendas. âOne thought drives away another; old facts are chased by new ones,â wrote Ellul.
All the while, the government continues to amass more power and authority over the citizenry
Ultimately, the reality shows, the entertainment news, the surveillance society, the militarized police, and the political spectacles have one common objective: to keep us divided, distracted, imprisoned, and incapable of taking an active role in the business of self-government.
Look behind the political spectacles, the reality TV theatrics, the sleight-of-hand distractions and diversions, and the stomach-churning, nail-biting drama, and you will find there is a method to the madness.
How do you change the way people think? You start by changing the words they use….. ‘
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/state-never-ending-crisis-government-fomenting-mass-hysteria
DISTRACTED.
DIVIDED.
You are like clay in their hands.
The woke stuff here if you really want to know my honest suspicion, is to keep us ‘idealogically aligned’ with America, because they want us to fight the east with them. The woke nutters are already shutting down anti war protests over there, they are useful idiots. You are also useful idiots, just for the other side, when they think they need you to cause a bit more division. They will continue to play you all off against each other, make money and retain power by doing so. Cynical humble opinion.
Mr Craven. You are one of those I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall with. My last post was lazy. Let me try harder. One last time.
Right. Woke is an American construct. Although we do seem to have imported a bit of this crazy militant progressive business, I think it is a bit far to say that we may need to physically over come mobs of woke people in Britain. If anything, the defeat of sturgeons gender bill and the fact that people came out to peacefully protest against it, is a good example of us actually not really adopting American woke progressive politics.
So, we do not want to stoop to their level do we? The militant progressive movements are not always inclined to engage in debate, they are a bit militant and crazy, but that doesn’t mean we also need to resort to their tactics does it?
I’ve seen you call people woke s*um (sorry apparently sc*m makes this go to awaiting approval?) for a myriad of pretty unfair reasons. Not everybody spouting left wing political ideas or worried about racism, or the far right, or men being morons, or worried about certain aspects of the environment, is a militant woke nutter. There is a lot of confusion about what is left, right, woke, not woke I feel. America exporting this stuff really doesn’t help with the confusion.
You love a sweeping statement. I find it narrow minded.
The circus of the absurd continues and will continue until this nonsense is confronted directly for the fraudulent weaponized ideology that it is. The world is now going to have to confront that lunatic and insane people are driving public policy and that politicians are seemingly in a zombie-like state going with it. Normal-thinking people are so distracted that they either donât care via apathy, donât know how to confront this lunacy, or simply wish it to continue for fear of being canceled. Fearlessness in the face of this mind virus needs to be demanded.
Been there done that. Boring.
Have you got the t shirt? Does that say woke s c u m too?
A very disappointing reply from a man with a history in academia. No wonder the country is broken. You do realise this woke stuff is from the top down? Through universities and such? It’s your own you need to look to for answers as to why it’s being pushed everywhere.
But as you can’t even refute a post from a person whose academic achievements are quite frankly, appalling, I’m not holding out much hope. What do they do you in academia these days? Fill you full of intolerance and ignorance and then let you loose on the country?
“Have you got the t shirt? Does that say woke s c u m too?”
No, it says “I stand with J.K.Rowling”.
“A very disappointing reply from a man with a history in academia. No wonder the country is broken. You do realise this woke stuff is from the top down? Through universities and such? Itâs your own you need to look to for answers as to why itâs being pushed everywhere.”
I quit academia several years ago.
“But as you canât even refute a post”
I’ve refuted wokery on innumerable occasions previously, and don’t see what further purpose is served by attempting to reason with wilfully irrational, depraved, misogynist, racist apologists for the sexualisation, drugging, and mutilation of children.
Did you see my post about how this stuff is promoted? About the media and television? About the funding into universities? Have you actually followed any of this up?
If you have been arguing with narrow minded people I can understand your frustration Mr Craven, but still. I expect better from our British academics.
You will remember, if your philosophical brain is any good that it was me who posted about the funding behind just stop oil. I also directly replied to you, and linked you to candace owens blm documentary that showed how this was all funded, top down. So. Maybe you could do a bit of that? You know, show that these aren’t grass roots movements, show people in university that actually they are championing the agenda of multi millionaires and not ‘the people’. Maybe that might help?
I could not say enough good things about jk Rowling. The Harry Potter books are a work of genius in my humble opinion. We were the generation queuing outside the bookshops.
Did you see my post about how this stuff is promoted? About the media and television? About the funding into universities? Have you actually followed any of this up?
If you have been arguing with narrow minded people I can understand your frustration Mr Craven, but still. I expect better from our British academics.
You will remember, if your philosophical brain is any good that it was me who posted about the funding behind just stop oil. I also directly replied to you, and linked you to candace owens blm documentary that showed how this was all funded, top down. So. Maybe you could do a bit of that? You know, show that these aren’t grass roots movements, show people in university that actually they are championing the agenda of multi millionaires and not ‘the people’. Maybe that might help?
I could not say enough good things about jk Rowling. The Harry Potter books are a work of genius in my humble opinion. We were the generation queuing outside the bookshops.
“Have you got the t shirt? Does that say woke s c u m too?”
No, it says “I stand with J.K.Rowling”.
“A very disappointing reply from a man with a history in academia. No wonder the country is broken. You do realise this woke stuff is from the top down? Through universities and such? Itâs your own you need to look to for answers as to why itâs being pushed everywhere.”
I quit academia several years ago.
“But as you canât even refute a post”
I’ve refuted wokery on innumerable occasions previously, and don’t see what further purpose is served by attempting to reason with wilfully irrational, depraved, misogynist, racist apologists for the sexualisation, drugging, and mutilation of children.
Have you got the t shirt? Does that say woke s c u m too?
A very disappointing reply from a man with a history in academia. No wonder the country is broken. You do realise this woke stuff is from the top down? Through universities and such? It’s your own you need to look to for answers as to why it’s being pushed everywhere.
But as you can’t even refute a post from a person whose academic achievements are quite frankly, appalling, I’m not holding out much hope. What do they do you in academia these days? Fill you full of intolerance and ignorance and then let you loose on the country?
That’s like saying that Hitler should have been refuted by philosophical argument. True, he should have been and he was, however that was not sufficient as we found out. Unfortunately war was required. Alas, refuting and destroying woke arguments is fine for those of us who still believe in argument, but it has no effect on the wokies themselves who have left rational argument long behind. Rationality is a System of Oppression after all. Unfortunately the time comes when woke mobs are going to have to be physically defeated, not just politely refuted.
Civil discourse is entirely inappropriate for dealing with the woke. We need to treat them as misogynistic and racist apologists for the sexualisation, drugging, and mutilation of children, because that is exactly what they are.
Been there done that. Boring.
ACHTUNG! âRubberâ has returned.
I see you are still feeling eloquent Mr Craven.
I am probably guilty of a bit of vitriolic abuse myself at times.
Perhaps you could utilise your philosophical brain to refute and destroy the woke arguments you don’t like with persuasive and eloquent arguments of your own instead of the old scum insults, but you know, whatever you feel like.
My background is in academic philosophy, and yet I consider it right and proper to engage in the vitriolic abuse of the woke, because they’re f a s c i s t s c u m.
Thereâs nothing to be gained from lamenting the end of civility, or reasoned discourse, much-missed though these are….
Is that true to say though, that previously we had reasoned discourse and civility?
The history of most countries is full of riots, political clashes, assassination of political leaders, lots of shouting at each other and wars.
I think the Internet has made it easier to discuss politics, and like here, not just with people local to you but with people all over the world. The more you expand the debate globally like this, the more likely it is you will see clashes between different cultures and politics. It also makes it easier to export political movements.
At the moment, there has been real censorship of one side of the debate in some cases, if you are on the side getting censored it’s very frustrating, I have sympathy with those that get frustrated with this and perhaps people are not as civil as they would be had they been allowed to fairly participate in the first place.
I fear this is correct for now. However, without a return to civil discourse we will make increasingly bad and eventually disastrous decisions socially and economically.
At present, the best outcome seems to be a more authoritarian defense of what we have, and a state led rolling back of the excesses of the current liberal revolution. But there is no-one in the UK who currently seems to have the stomach or competence for what that involves and it is not an approach without risks. Paradoxically given polling, I think many young people would get behind this because what they really crave in their lives is a measure of authority and order, even just as walls they can hit in protest without the fear that the house will fall down. I think the main appeal of wokeism is that it is authoritarian.
I fear this is correct for now. However, without a return to civil discourse we will make increasingly bad and eventually disastrous decisions socially and economically.
At present, the best outcome seems to be a more authoritarian defense of what we have, and a state led rolling back of the excesses of the current liberal revolution. But there is no-one in the UK who currently seems to have the stomach or competence for what that involves and it is not an approach without risks. Paradoxically given polling, I think many young people would get behind this because what they really crave in their lives is a measure of authority and order, even just as walls they can hit in protest without the fear that the house will fall down. I think the main appeal of wokeism is that it is authoritarian.
Frightening isn’t it?
Arguably we have the ‘perfect wave’ created by the chaos between the end of the ‘old elite’ and the birth of the ‘new elite’ plus the digital severing of the cause and effect trail.
Ordinary people (in the Western world, at least) are confused about which elite will win, and how to draw conclusions about who is the most ‘worthy’.
If you predict that many of the ‘Virtuals’ will be disenfranchised by AI and other algorithmic processes then that leaves only the ‘Physicals’, distanced even further from nuance and debate.
Frightening isn’t it?
Arguably we have the ‘perfect wave’ created by the chaos between the end of the ‘old elite’ and the birth of the ‘new elite’ plus the digital severing of the cause and effect trail.
Ordinary people (in the Western world, at least) are confused about which elite will win, and how to draw conclusions about who is the most ‘worthy’.
If you predict that many of the ‘Virtuals’ will be disenfranchised by AI and other algorithmic processes then that leaves only the ‘Physicals’, distanced even further from nuance and debate.
I will never support mob justice or mob politics, let alone deplatforming or total delegitimization of my opponents in any debate.
I will never support mob justice or mob politics, let alone deplatforming or total delegitimization of my opponents in any debate.
That’s a nice tie-in to Kingsnorth’s recent article and I think you’re both right.
That’s a nice tie-in to Kingsnorth’s recent article and I think you’re both right.
Brilliant, Mary. Thank You. Can’t wait to read your new book her in the USA.
Brilliant, Mary. Thank You. Can’t wait to read your new book her in the USA.
I have said it many times to any who listens: The new narrow mindedness is from the leftist’s perspective to turn reality inside out; it is intellectual bigotry because they use a perceived point of view as inclusive but disagrees, is intolerant with anyone who disagrees with them.
I have said it many times to any who listens: The new narrow mindedness is from the leftist’s perspective to turn reality inside out; it is intellectual bigotry because they use a perceived point of view as inclusive but disagrees, is intolerant with anyone who disagrees with them.
Raw power is the only thing that counts now. Who has it, who can seize it and how serious are they about using it? I hope this is remembered when the wheel turns, as it inevitably will.
Raw power is the only thing that counts now. Who has it, who can seize it and how serious are they about using it? I hope this is remembered when the wheel turns, as it inevitably will.
If you go to events like the LGB Alliance conferences and mingle with the protesters you will see many familiar faces from the anti-Huntington Life Sciences protests etc around Cambridge, and Stalinist remnant hanger-on groups in London. Most are older, white, and certainly not trans. One used to be an extremist Muslim of some kind but I think they booted him out â he was lampooned in the âFour Lionsâ film as Barry.
Nice and significant observation, I do remember the very hard core animal rights activists as being early promoters of the âThey are so unkind we must kill themâ style. That ever present loose-knit clique of the violently dissatisfied.
Nice and significant observation, I do remember the very hard core animal rights activists as being early promoters of the âThey are so unkind we must kill themâ style. That ever present loose-knit clique of the violently dissatisfied.
If you go to events like the LGB Alliance conferences and mingle with the protesters you will see many familiar faces from the anti-Huntington Life Sciences protests etc around Cambridge, and Stalinist remnant hanger-on groups in London. Most are older, white, and certainly not trans. One used to be an extremist Muslim of some kind but I think they booted him out â he was lampooned in the âFour Lionsâ film as Barry.
NT
Society has become a toxic sludge before it takes historyâs Exit ramp – itâs sad to see.The modern era began with a Puritanical cult seizing the levers of power followed by a civil war and it looks like itâs ending with the same dynamics.
p.s. Dr Dutton has done a good video on howling mob dynamics Why Are Antifa Mutants Calling Ordinary Oxford Residents ‘Fascists’?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTFXTf5pflM
I’ve never heard of her until reading this article, I fear you give her too much credit.
You disgusting creep.
?
?
You disgusting creep.
I’ve never heard of her until reading this article, I fear you give her too much credit.
Over complicated? Harrington sounds too much like Judith Butler. I think Richard Dawkins would call her out.
Over complicated? Harrington sounds too much like Judith Butler. I think Richard Dawkins would call her out.