Subscribe
Notify of
guest

34 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago

“There is, however, something about Macron which provokes a deep and unreasoning hatred among many French people.”
Not just among the French.

RM Parker
RM Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

True! Trudeau likewise.

Ian L
Ian L
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Wasn’t the word he used ’emmerder’? Well I hope he’s feeling that now!

RM Parker
RM Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

True! Trudeau likewise.

Ian L
Ian L
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Wasn’t the word he used ’emmerder’? Well I hope he’s feeling that now!

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago

“There is, however, something about Macron which provokes a deep and unreasoning hatred among many French people.”
Not just among the French.

Lee Wood
Lee Wood
1 year ago

I live in SW France, am no expert on current affairs but observe whats going on. The author is wrong in suggesting the riots are led by ‘people too young to vote’ – people of all classes and age are in the movement. The author otherwise right – the people are unreasonably refusing a modest reform which is necessary. As he says – Macron has deep seated disrespect from the people. The logic doesn’t add up – cash is available for warfare and covid bailouts but not for retirement funds. The rich are still getting richer.
My sense is that the French know what is wrong but cannot overtly campaign for named problems. Retirement is an acceptable pretext even though it should not be justified.
The people know that Macron is a WEF puppet and too weak to resist the US military agenda (which nation IS strong enough ??) and is leading them into a program of de-nationalisation and techno-totalitariansim. The traditionalists resist change and have found a focus for their hatred and distrust. Chaos and regime change will follow.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Lee Wood

I think he was saying that most of the extreme violence was coming from “marauding gangs of young people in black hoodies”, these were the one’s who, he said, were too yoing to vote and very unlikely to be concrned about pensions.

Lee Wood
Lee Wood
1 year ago

I’ve just searched into the Guardian link – there is no reference ‘too young to vote’; I’d guess these ‘young’ are early 20’s – but agreed, their primary interest is not retirement

Lee Wood
Lee Wood
1 year ago

I’ve just searched into the Guardian link – there is no reference ‘too young to vote’; I’d guess these ‘young’ are early 20’s – but agreed, their primary interest is not retirement

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Lee Wood

I think he was saying that most of the extreme violence was coming from “marauding gangs of young people in black hoodies”, these were the one’s who, he said, were too yoing to vote and very unlikely to be concrned about pensions.

Lee Wood
Lee Wood
1 year ago

I live in SW France, am no expert on current affairs but observe whats going on. The author is wrong in suggesting the riots are led by ‘people too young to vote’ – people of all classes and age are in the movement. The author otherwise right – the people are unreasonably refusing a modest reform which is necessary. As he says – Macron has deep seated disrespect from the people. The logic doesn’t add up – cash is available for warfare and covid bailouts but not for retirement funds. The rich are still getting richer.
My sense is that the French know what is wrong but cannot overtly campaign for named problems. Retirement is an acceptable pretext even though it should not be justified.
The people know that Macron is a WEF puppet and too weak to resist the US military agenda (which nation IS strong enough ??) and is leading them into a program of de-nationalisation and techno-totalitariansim. The traditionalists resist change and have found a focus for their hatred and distrust. Chaos and regime change will follow.

Emmanuel MARTIN
Emmanuel MARTIN
1 year ago

Seen from France, this is depressing. The article is protraying a reasonnably neutral and accurate description of the situation.

Emmanuel MARTIN
Emmanuel MARTIN
1 year ago

Seen from France, this is depressing. The article is protraying a reasonnably neutral and accurate description of the situation.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

Right across Europe the middle class is living beyond its means – and has been for thirty years. Including in the UK. How many of us actually put in more than we take out? Not many – and that’s before we even consider the unearned property wealth, which is basically just another government handout.

Still, at least we still have our own currency and can therefore fix our problems. The French, Italians and Spanish don’t and can’t.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

ahhh… to much Earl Grey tea, Bristol creme sweet sherry, golf and masonic lodge subscription, and refurbishing the leounge methinks?

Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

It’s the governments that are living beyond the means of the people.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Bryan Dale

Et voilĂ !!

Cormac Lucey
Cormac Lucey
1 year ago
Reply to  Bryan Dale

Governments are no more than the institutional representation of the people.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  Bryan Dale

Et voilĂ !!

Cormac Lucey
Cormac Lucey
1 year ago
Reply to  Bryan Dale

Governments are no more than the institutional representation of the people.

William Edward Henry Appleby
William Edward Henry Appleby
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

The UK has many problems, but having its own currency is not going to fix them.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

ahhh… to much Earl Grey tea, Bristol creme sweet sherry, golf and masonic lodge subscription, and refurbishing the leounge methinks?

Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

It’s the governments that are living beyond the means of the people.

William Edward Henry Appleby
William Edward Henry Appleby
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

The UK has many problems, but having its own currency is not going to fix them.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

Right across Europe the middle class is living beyond its means – and has been for thirty years. Including in the UK. How many of us actually put in more than we take out? Not many – and that’s before we even consider the unearned property wealth, which is basically just another government handout.

Still, at least we still have our own currency and can therefore fix our problems. The French, Italians and Spanish don’t and can’t.

Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
1 year ago

Perhaps had Macron been a more democratic leader, he could push through important reforms like pension reform with less public opposition, but France isn’t democratic. It’s a vassal of the EU, the WEF and the UN, passing laws as dictated to it by international organizations on “climate change”, covid and migrants in particular. The French people have learned that voting never brings about change. Their votes don’t matter, so rioting is their only option to bring about change. That model will soon be repeated in formerly democratic states around the world.

Last edited 1 year ago by Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
1 year ago

Perhaps had Macron been a more democratic leader, he could push through important reforms like pension reform with less public opposition, but France isn’t democratic. It’s a vassal of the EU, the WEF and the UN, passing laws as dictated to it by international organizations on “climate change”, covid and migrants in particular. The French people have learned that voting never brings about change. Their votes don’t matter, so rioting is their only option to bring about change. That model will soon be repeated in formerly democratic states around the world.

Last edited 1 year ago by Bryan Dale
Terry M
Terry M
1 year ago

The Gilets Jaunes protest was against an authoritarian, anti-scientific, woke nonsense that forces common people to pay taxes to support the rich (global warming mountebanks). Bravo!
The pension protest is simply lazy, irrational whining.
That Macron could get both wrong says a lot.

Terry M
Terry M
1 year ago

The Gilets Jaunes protest was against an authoritarian, anti-scientific, woke nonsense that forces common people to pay taxes to support the rich (global warming mountebanks). Bravo!
The pension protest is simply lazy, irrational whining.
That Macron could get both wrong says a lot.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago

If the French Government needs to do a ‘Thatcher’ then they should have started pension reform in the 1980s. I know that that is not possible now but the current situation reminds me of the financial perils of Greece – too much benefit and not enough contribution.
French pension reform seems necessary… but to bring it in by fiat seems unnecessarily provocative.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago

If the French Government needs to do a ‘Thatcher’ then they should have started pension reform in the 1980s. I know that that is not possible now but the current situation reminds me of the financial perils of Greece – too much benefit and not enough contribution.
French pension reform seems necessary… but to bring it in by fiat seems unnecessarily provocative.

Reginald Duquesnoy
Reginald Duquesnoy
1 year ago

I understand why I have not read The Independent for ages. Where does this correspondent crawl out from?
First of all it is not la France tout courte, mais La France tout court. Confusion des genres! And as we say locally, si ma tante en avait, elle serait mon oncle! Thus the comparison between Thatcher and Micronus totally misses the point. In fact it is totally “invertie”. She most likely had them…as to her alter ego, I can’t even say that the jury is still out.
OĂč la libido va-t-elle se nicher?

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

An he is not even from Stoke-on-Trent you know

Louie Betty
Louie Betty
1 year ago

Right, tout court in this case is an adverbial expression, not a modifier of La France.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

An he is not even from Stoke-on-Trent you know

Louie Betty
Louie Betty
1 year ago

Right, tout court in this case is an adverbial expression, not a modifier of La France.

Reginald Duquesnoy
Reginald Duquesnoy
1 year ago

I understand why I have not read The Independent for ages. Where does this correspondent crawl out from?
First of all it is not la France tout courte, mais La France tout court. Confusion des genres! And as we say locally, si ma tante en avait, elle serait mon oncle! Thus the comparison between Thatcher and Micronus totally misses the point. In fact it is totally “invertie”. She most likely had them…as to her alter ego, I can’t even say that the jury is still out.
OĂč la libido va-t-elle se nicher?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

There is another very important difference between France and Britain that commentators appear completely blind to.
Whereas in nu britn, and rule by the lower middle classes, the industrial and manual working class is viewed as something that everyone must ” rise out of” and ensure that Kayleigh and Kevin become computer programmers of line managers: their ” soshul ‘ hambishun” says that death my hanging, drawing and quartering, would be preferable than becoming working class again, especially if the neighbours ” feound eout”.

In France, society respects, and reveres those who work , and more importantly wish to work at SNCF, Renault, Michelin, and Peugeot, and their rights and status, and wants to ensure that they continue to do so and not dream of their offspring entering the masonic lodge and golf club as ” slisters and acceountants”.

Thus France gives French society superb roads and railways, the vast majority of cars on the road are French, and those workers huge pension funds invest in French government bonds, so help the funding of long term infrastructure cost burdens.

Of course this has nothing to do with EU membership. Britain could adopt a raft of inspiration from both EU and non EU countries, but never does… Norways’ oil wealth fund, Switzerlands low tax attraction governed by Cantons individual tax deals with UHNW individuals, Germany’s paying citizens to recycle, and its ” 30 days only” terms of supplier credit,Germany’s high motorway speed limits, Italy and France’s wine prices, and a plethora of others….

Michael Marron
Michael Marron
1 year ago

You don’t know France very well, do you?
The majority of French people view those who work for the multinationals in the same light as those who work for the government. Entitled parasites living off the sweat of those who work in the real private sector, whether that is AI or plumbing

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Michael Marron

Firstly, Peugeot, Michelin, Renault and last but not least SNCF, are not multi nationals, and all but SNCF are in the private sector, and having just returned from 6 weeks in France and having a family holiday house or boat there for over 30 years…. Might I humbly suggest that you engage grey matter prior to your keyboard, so as not to wilfully display such a public and embarrasing lack of knowledge??

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Michael Marron

As in plumbing the depths of display of ignorance and factual inaccuracy, as you have just done?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Michael Marron

Firstly, Peugeot, Michelin, Renault and last but not least SNCF, are not multi nationals, and all but SNCF are in the private sector, and having just returned from 6 weeks in France and having a family holiday house or boat there for over 30 years…. Might I humbly suggest that you engage grey matter prior to your keyboard, so as not to wilfully display such a public and embarrasing lack of knowledge??

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Michael Marron

As in plumbing the depths of display of ignorance and factual inaccuracy, as you have just done?

Jonny Stud
Jonny Stud
1 year ago

They haven’t adopted ideas that work elsewhere because the sole purpose of British politicians for the last 60 years or so has been to keep the rich, rich, or to join the rich themselves. Ordinary people are just cash cows at best and a dangerous irritant at worst.

William Edward Henry Appleby
William Edward Henry Appleby
1 year ago

Yes, and that’s all great, but why can’t the French just accept changing demographics and working until 64?

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
1 year ago

Sometimes it’s not the message, but the messenger.

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
1 year ago

Sometimes it’s not the message, but the messenger.

Desmond Wolf
Desmond Wolf
1 year ago

Exactly – very clever of Thatcher to make social mobility the now unquestioned answer to working class alienation. Rather than encouraging poor working people to escape their circumstances (usually through the narrow goalposts of a-levels) why not improve those circumstances and create skilled techincal jobs again through a program of reindustrialisation with mission-oriented state-owned companies (so successful abroad, as you say)
Instead we have a tyranny of ‘meritocracy,’ as Michael Young (who came up with the word) foresaw.

Last edited 1 year ago by Desmond Wolf
Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Desmond Wolf

We need to change our education system. Basically half of expenditure and numbers students should be very high quality vocational and engineering, quarter pure science and quarter arts – classical and modern languages. Turn all ex polys into Fraunhofer Institutes. Select at eleven years of age and replicate Swiss education. Gymnasia to copy Direct Grant Grammar Schools- Manchester or , King Edward VIth Birmingham with emphasis on pure science, engineering and a quater on high level arts – classical and modern languages. Bring back university entrance exams of Oxbridge standard and reduce numbers of universities to about ten for whole of country and bring back Institution of Engineering Exams to be taught at evening classes at Fraunhofer Institutes. Close down three quarters of arts/humanities degrees. Have it so people can take A Levels at fifteen years of age and university entrance exams at seventeen years of age.
Basically have a an electrician or mechanic who has completed a five year apprenticeship of the old City and Guilds Standard with a HND in Engineering who can speak two foreign languages. An Engineering graduate would have the same standard as someone with a pre 1980 Cambridge/Imperial degree.
One cannot make an economy based on high value advanced engineering from someone who thinks a GSCE Grade C in Maths and Physics are major achievements and has a slap dash approach to accuracy and precision.

Desmond Wolf
Desmond Wolf
1 year ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

Think I would go with most of that. The only big provision I would make is expanding adult education so that those technically trained who realise later in life they have a propensity towards academia (something often not yet apparent to the hormone-addled teen) are able to study again and with a sense of purpose and direction that younger students are less likely to have.

Desmond Wolf
Desmond Wolf
1 year ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

Think I would go with most of that. The only big provision I would make is expanding adult education so that those technically trained who realise later in life they have a propensity towards academia (something often not yet apparent to the hormone-addled teen) are able to study again and with a sense of purpose and direction that younger students are less likely to have.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Desmond Wolf

We need to change our education system. Basically half of expenditure and numbers students should be very high quality vocational and engineering, quarter pure science and quarter arts – classical and modern languages. Turn all ex polys into Fraunhofer Institutes. Select at eleven years of age and replicate Swiss education. Gymnasia to copy Direct Grant Grammar Schools- Manchester or , King Edward VIth Birmingham with emphasis on pure science, engineering and a quater on high level arts – classical and modern languages. Bring back university entrance exams of Oxbridge standard and reduce numbers of universities to about ten for whole of country and bring back Institution of Engineering Exams to be taught at evening classes at Fraunhofer Institutes. Close down three quarters of arts/humanities degrees. Have it so people can take A Levels at fifteen years of age and university entrance exams at seventeen years of age.
Basically have a an electrician or mechanic who has completed a five year apprenticeship of the old City and Guilds Standard with a HND in Engineering who can speak two foreign languages. An Engineering graduate would have the same standard as someone with a pre 1980 Cambridge/Imperial degree.
One cannot make an economy based on high value advanced engineering from someone who thinks a GSCE Grade C in Maths and Physics are major achievements and has a slap dash approach to accuracy and precision.

Michael Marron
Michael Marron
1 year ago

You don’t know France very well, do you?
The majority of French people view those who work for the multinationals in the same light as those who work for the government. Entitled parasites living off the sweat of those who work in the real private sector, whether that is AI or plumbing

Jonny Stud
Jonny Stud
1 year ago

They haven’t adopted ideas that work elsewhere because the sole purpose of British politicians for the last 60 years or so has been to keep the rich, rich, or to join the rich themselves. Ordinary people are just cash cows at best and a dangerous irritant at worst.

William Edward Henry Appleby
William Edward Henry Appleby
1 year ago

Yes, and that’s all great, but why can’t the French just accept changing demographics and working until 64?

Desmond Wolf
Desmond Wolf
1 year ago

Exactly – very clever of Thatcher to make social mobility the now unquestioned answer to working class alienation. Rather than encouraging poor working people to escape their circumstances (usually through the narrow goalposts of a-levels) why not improve those circumstances and create skilled techincal jobs again through a program of reindustrialisation with mission-oriented state-owned companies (so successful abroad, as you say)
Instead we have a tyranny of ‘meritocracy,’ as Michael Young (who came up with the word) foresaw.

Last edited 1 year ago by Desmond Wolf
Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

There is another very important difference between France and Britain that commentators appear completely blind to.
Whereas in nu britn, and rule by the lower middle classes, the industrial and manual working class is viewed as something that everyone must ” rise out of” and ensure that Kayleigh and Kevin become computer programmers of line managers: their ” soshul ‘ hambishun” says that death my hanging, drawing and quartering, would be preferable than becoming working class again, especially if the neighbours ” feound eout”.

In France, society respects, and reveres those who work , and more importantly wish to work at SNCF, Renault, Michelin, and Peugeot, and their rights and status, and wants to ensure that they continue to do so and not dream of their offspring entering the masonic lodge and golf club as ” slisters and acceountants”.

Thus France gives French society superb roads and railways, the vast majority of cars on the road are French, and those workers huge pension funds invest in French government bonds, so help the funding of long term infrastructure cost burdens.

Of course this has nothing to do with EU membership. Britain could adopt a raft of inspiration from both EU and non EU countries, but never does… Norways’ oil wealth fund, Switzerlands low tax attraction governed by Cantons individual tax deals with UHNW individuals, Germany’s paying citizens to recycle, and its ” 30 days only” terms of supplier credit,Germany’s high motorway speed limits, Italy and France’s wine prices, and a plethora of others….

William Edward Henry Appleby
William Edward Henry Appleby
1 year ago

King Charles’ visit wasn’t cancelled because of security reasons; that’s just the official explanation. The real reason the visit was cancelled is to avoid the poor optics of Macron dining at Versailles with Charles, like he was Louis XVI (Macron, not Charles).

William Edward Henry Appleby
William Edward Henry Appleby
1 year ago

King Charles’ visit wasn’t cancelled because of security reasons; that’s just the official explanation. The real reason the visit was cancelled is to avoid the poor optics of Macron dining at Versailles with Charles, like he was Louis XVI (Macron, not Charles).

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
1 year ago

“Macron needs to be more like Thatcher”

Dressing up Jove in a blue power-dress, complete with pearls and twin-set, is not necessarily going to make the French grow up.

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
1 year ago

“Macron needs to be more like Thatcher”

Dressing up Jove in a blue power-dress, complete with pearls and twin-set, is not necessarily going to make the French grow up.

Martin Layfield
Martin Layfield
1 year ago

I don’t think the pension reform on its own is too objectionable. The means of imposing it are extremely dubious though. And to be honest, whether the reform is good or bad, I can’t help but smile seeing the arrogant bankster version of Napoleon that is Macron get made to squirm.

Martin Layfield
Martin Layfield
1 year ago

I don’t think the pension reform on its own is too objectionable. The means of imposing it are extremely dubious though. And to be honest, whether the reform is good or bad, I can’t help but smile seeing the arrogant bankster version of Napoleon that is Macron get made to squirm.

Richard Barrett
Richard Barrett
1 year ago

More power to the protesters. The last thing France needs is a Thatcher “reforming” the country “for its own good.”

Richard Barrett
Richard Barrett
1 year ago

More power to the protesters. The last thing France needs is a Thatcher “reforming” the country “for its own good.”

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
1 year ago

All you need show is a graph of average age to defend the morality of the change. That said, I wouldn’t bother, there is another solution. Only pay retirement for 20years. You can take it anytime after 62.