Subscribe
Notify of
guest

50 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Paddy Taylor
Paddy Taylor
1 year ago

What?

I’ve thus far only read the first two paragraphs of the article and had to stop to write this.

My hope is that it is a spoof – my fear is that it is not.

Biden doing alright? That has to be a joke – but to mention the shambolic withdrawal from Afghanistan as a policy win, rather than the most shameful US humiliation this century, means the joke – if joke it is – is in rather poor taste.

I’ll now read the rest, and offer a more considered response in the morning, but if this turns out to be a serious article then I’m looking forward to the comments from other posters, they shoul be pretty entertaining- though I rather doubt they’ll be comfortable reading for the author, Mr Bateman.

Last edited 1 year ago by Paddy Taylor
J Bryant
J Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

I’ve read the article and it’s not a spoof. The author’s main argument is that the Democrats should elect a centrist leader, whether that’s Biden or someone else. For me, focusing on whether or not Biden is an effective president isn’t the most significant aspect of this article.
The author argues in favor of centrism, and I’ve seen similar arguments applied to the Republicans who, it’s argued, should dump Trump and go for someone more moderate like DeSantis.
My suspicion, however, is that political centrism will no longer work. Our politics and society are too broken for that. We need something radically different to deal with an increasingly multipolar world, and a socioeconomic system that no longer provides most Americans with a decent wage, or even supports the concept of Americanism and social cohesion.
A moderate Democrat or Republican elected in 2024 will be nothing more than a caretaker president, imo. The nation awaits someone radically new with a vision that will carry us through the twenty-first century. So far, I have no idea who that might be.

Martin Bollis
Martin Bollis
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

Could that not be De Santis? What he seems to be doing that is radically new is actually fighting back, taking on the Disneys, school boards etc.

Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin Bollis

I’ve voted Dem my entire life, but if DeSantis runs against Biden, I will vote for DeSantis. Parents have a right to object to values they disagree with being taught to their children; Gender ID must NEVER replace sex in law. Ever. Those are the reasons I will vote for DeSantis: as president he can protect Title IX. He also won’t put a pervert like S am Brinton in his cabinet.

Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin Bollis

I’ve voted Dem my entire life, but if DeSantis runs against Biden, I will vote for DeSantis. Parents have a right to object to values they disagree with being taught to their children; Gender ID must NEVER replace sex in law. Ever. Those are the reasons I will vote for DeSantis: as president he can protect Title IX. He also won’t put a pervert like S am Brinton in his cabinet.

Stephanie Surface
Stephanie Surface
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

DeSantis is a centrist or “moderate” ? I would go for moderate, if it means confronting the Disney Corporation after their shameful support for woke, kiddy transgender school indoctrinations, also withdrawing the State’s money from Black Rock with their ESG agenda. He fearlessly opened up Florida for business, when Democratic governed States still continued with their lockdown and mask mandates.
But I don’t believe that DeSantis’ agenda is moderate/centrist, but a radical reversal of all that’s wrong with the current left of centre U.S. politics under the so-called centrist Biden, who celebrated a guy as a hero, who put on a dress/bikini on TikTok and decided to be a woman, and invited him/her to the Oval Office.

Last edited 1 year ago by Stephanie Surface
Peter Lee
Peter Lee
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

Re. Covid. Was DeSantis more centrist than Pres Trump. I don’t think so.
DeSantis has yet to feel the wrath of the Dems. MSM and Deep State Woke Institutions.

Ray Zacek
Ray Zacek
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Lee

If DeSantis runs in 2024, which looks increasingly likely, the agents of character assassinaton and vituperation among the Dems, and the corrupt political condotierre scumbag grifters like the Lincoln Project, will shift their efforts from Trump to DeSantis with glee.

Brian Villanueva
Brian Villanueva
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Lee

Between Disney, COVID, and immigrant flights, I think DeSantis has gotten a pretty big dose of “the wrath of the Dems” over the last 2 years. And he’s still standing.
I will not vote for any GOP primary candidate without a proven track record of standing up to the woke. Words won’t cut it; you need to show me you actually got legislation passed to hurt them.
Nikki, Mike Pompeo… you don’t have the track record. Mike Pence, you actually caved to the loony Left while Indiana gov. Trump himself was mostly performance with almost no long-term results.
DeSantis is the only one who passes this test right now. The Disney takeover was real and costly to them. The defunding of gender studies was real and will be costly to them. The limitation on CRT and gender ideology in schools was real and will cost them power. So far, I don’t see any other candidates that can claim they’ve actually hurt the woke.
The Republicans need to realize the game. Having the best ideas is pointless if the other side has stacked the deck.

Last edited 1 year ago by Brian Villanueva
Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago

Hear hear

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago

Hear hear

Ray Zacek
Ray Zacek
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Lee

If DeSantis runs in 2024, which looks increasingly likely, the agents of character assassinaton and vituperation among the Dems, and the corrupt political condotierre scumbag grifters like the Lincoln Project, will shift their efforts from Trump to DeSantis with glee.

Brian Villanueva
Brian Villanueva
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Lee

Between Disney, COVID, and immigrant flights, I think DeSantis has gotten a pretty big dose of “the wrath of the Dems” over the last 2 years. And he’s still standing.
I will not vote for any GOP primary candidate without a proven track record of standing up to the woke. Words won’t cut it; you need to show me you actually got legislation passed to hurt them.
Nikki, Mike Pompeo… you don’t have the track record. Mike Pence, you actually caved to the loony Left while Indiana gov. Trump himself was mostly performance with almost no long-term results.
DeSantis is the only one who passes this test right now. The Disney takeover was real and costly to them. The defunding of gender studies was real and will be costly to them. The limitation on CRT and gender ideology in schools was real and will cost them power. So far, I don’t see any other candidates that can claim they’ve actually hurt the woke.
The Republicans need to realize the game. Having the best ideas is pointless if the other side has stacked the deck.

Last edited 1 year ago by Brian Villanueva
Martin Bollis
Martin Bollis
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

Could that not be De Santis? What he seems to be doing that is radically new is actually fighting back, taking on the Disneys, school boards etc.

Stephanie Surface
Stephanie Surface
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

DeSantis is a centrist or “moderate” ? I would go for moderate, if it means confronting the Disney Corporation after their shameful support for woke, kiddy transgender school indoctrinations, also withdrawing the State’s money from Black Rock with their ESG agenda. He fearlessly opened up Florida for business, when Democratic governed States still continued with their lockdown and mask mandates.
But I don’t believe that DeSantis’ agenda is moderate/centrist, but a radical reversal of all that’s wrong with the current left of centre U.S. politics under the so-called centrist Biden, who celebrated a guy as a hero, who put on a dress/bikini on TikTok and decided to be a woman, and invited him/her to the Oval Office.

Last edited 1 year ago by Stephanie Surface
Peter Lee
Peter Lee
1 year ago
Reply to  J Bryant

Re. Covid. Was DeSantis more centrist than Pres Trump. I don’t think so.
DeSantis has yet to feel the wrath of the Dems. MSM and Deep State Woke Institutions.

M VC14
M VC14
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

The US is a vehicle heading for a cliff with Biden at the wheel. Rapidly increasing federal debt, while the rest of the world looks for an opportunity to drop the US dollar as reserve currency (at which point the USA becomes unable to repay the debt since they’ll no longer be able to print money).
I didn’t even get to paragraph 2.
Biden is no centrist (at least not any more). He’s somewhere to the left of the crazy left.

Michael McElwee
Michael McElwee
1 year ago
Reply to  M VC14

Yes, and to suggest that Elizabeth Warren might carry the torch of the moderate center . . . one wants to rescue this poor man.

Michael McElwee
Michael McElwee
1 year ago
Reply to  M VC14

Yes, and to suggest that Elizabeth Warren might carry the torch of the moderate center . . . one wants to rescue this poor man.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

I guess this was your first visit to the world according to Oliver Bateman. It is a rather strange place.

Paddy Taylor
Paddy Taylor
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

I read the article last night in amazement, and you’re right, Bateman-world is truly through the looking-glass.
I was planning to write a point by point rebuttal, but frankly what’s the point – this piece is so off-beam, I’d barely know where to begin.

Paddy Taylor
Paddy Taylor
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

I read the article last night in amazement, and you’re right, Bateman-world is truly through the looking-glass.
I was planning to write a point by point rebuttal, but frankly what’s the point – this piece is so off-beam, I’d barely know where to begin.

Pat Rowles
Pat Rowles
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

I don’t mind Oliver having his own opinions, even if they do have me rolling my eyes, but I draw the line at him having his own facts.

allegations of plagiarism in [Biden’s] speeches and academic work torpedoed his candidacy

The plagiarism was proven, not merely alleged.

Police shootings such as the violent arrest and death of Tyre Nichols

Tyre Nichols was beaten to death, not shot.

Last edited 1 year ago by Pat Rowles
Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

I just read the title and thought: “Biden IS the loony left…so maybe he can shield America from the loony left by…shuffling off into retirement/long term care?”

Ian S
Ian S
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

With ANY Bateman essay I, too, am tempted to give up after two paragraphs, but I tend to continue because I have a morbid fascination with just how misguided he can be. He doesn’t disappoint in this essay. Someone as out of touch with the real world as he is might read with some surprise the Bateman suggestions that among Biden’s many triumphs people ‘might have excitedly endorsed’ were the ‘withdrawal of American forces from Afghanistan’ and his ‘support for police, law and order, and the middle class’. I was half expecting a possible claim that Biden ‘acted forcefully and unhesitatingly to take control of the southern border’. Sadly, no. But we do indeed read from this devoted Democrat disciple that Biden’s different acts of plagiarism were merely ‘allegations’ rather than proven fact, that he presided over ‘a surprisingly smooth pandemic recovery’ and that he pays mere ‘lip service to the social-justice issues’… Yeah. Dream on, Oliver Bateman, and write more. I find your dreams entertaining.

J Bryant
J Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

I’ve read the article and it’s not a spoof. The author’s main argument is that the Democrats should elect a centrist leader, whether that’s Biden or someone else. For me, focusing on whether or not Biden is an effective president isn’t the most significant aspect of this article.
The author argues in favor of centrism, and I’ve seen similar arguments applied to the Republicans who, it’s argued, should dump Trump and go for someone more moderate like DeSantis.
My suspicion, however, is that political centrism will no longer work. Our politics and society are too broken for that. We need something radically different to deal with an increasingly multipolar world, and a socioeconomic system that no longer provides most Americans with a decent wage, or even supports the concept of Americanism and social cohesion.
A moderate Democrat or Republican elected in 2024 will be nothing more than a caretaker president, imo. The nation awaits someone radically new with a vision that will carry us through the twenty-first century. So far, I have no idea who that might be.

M VC14
M VC14
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

The US is a vehicle heading for a cliff with Biden at the wheel. Rapidly increasing federal debt, while the rest of the world looks for an opportunity to drop the US dollar as reserve currency (at which point the USA becomes unable to repay the debt since they’ll no longer be able to print money).
I didn’t even get to paragraph 2.
Biden is no centrist (at least not any more). He’s somewhere to the left of the crazy left.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

I guess this was your first visit to the world according to Oliver Bateman. It is a rather strange place.

Pat Rowles
Pat Rowles
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

I don’t mind Oliver having his own opinions, even if they do have me rolling my eyes, but I draw the line at him having his own facts.

allegations of plagiarism in [Biden’s] speeches and academic work torpedoed his candidacy

The plagiarism was proven, not merely alleged.

Police shootings such as the violent arrest and death of Tyre Nichols

Tyre Nichols was beaten to death, not shot.

Last edited 1 year ago by Pat Rowles
Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

I just read the title and thought: “Biden IS the loony left…so maybe he can shield America from the loony left by…shuffling off into retirement/long term care?”

Ian S
Ian S
1 year ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

With ANY Bateman essay I, too, am tempted to give up after two paragraphs, but I tend to continue because I have a morbid fascination with just how misguided he can be. He doesn’t disappoint in this essay. Someone as out of touch with the real world as he is might read with some surprise the Bateman suggestions that among Biden’s many triumphs people ‘might have excitedly endorsed’ were the ‘withdrawal of American forces from Afghanistan’ and his ‘support for police, law and order, and the middle class’. I was half expecting a possible claim that Biden ‘acted forcefully and unhesitatingly to take control of the southern border’. Sadly, no. But we do indeed read from this devoted Democrat disciple that Biden’s different acts of plagiarism were merely ‘allegations’ rather than proven fact, that he presided over ‘a surprisingly smooth pandemic recovery’ and that he pays mere ‘lip service to the social-justice issues’… Yeah. Dream on, Oliver Bateman, and write more. I find your dreams entertaining.

Paddy Taylor
Paddy Taylor
1 year ago

What?

I’ve thus far only read the first two paragraphs of the article and had to stop to write this.

My hope is that it is a spoof – my fear is that it is not.

Biden doing alright? That has to be a joke – but to mention the shambolic withdrawal from Afghanistan as a policy win, rather than the most shameful US humiliation this century, means the joke – if joke it is – is in rather poor taste.

I’ll now read the rest, and offer a more considered response in the morning, but if this turns out to be a serious article then I’m looking forward to the comments from other posters, they shoul be pretty entertaining- though I rather doubt they’ll be comfortable reading for the author, Mr Bateman.

Last edited 1 year ago by Paddy Taylor
Elliott Bjorn
Elliott Bjorn
1 year ago

HaHaaaa, it is the way you tell them which makes it so hilarious, hahaaa

”But if you look at the facts, President Joe Biden appears to be doing alright.”

I assume this is in the

”;Mussolini did get the trains to run on time.”

kind of way – that Mussolini also destroyed his Nation and People, destroyed the economy, the infrastructure of Italy – and messed up some bits of the Serbian lands, and Albanians, and Abyssinia, and Libya, and so on – But – he appeared to do alright – Train Time Table wise…. Hahaaa – this writer is in a league of his own…..

The Biden, or ‘Big Guy’ as he is known, destroyed the USA Economy with lockdowns and insane money printing. He – killed and disabled more with his obscenely dangerous mRNA vax than covid ever did – cost the young of America over a year of education, created Inflation worst that any since the 1980s – and then Exported it to the World! He is dividing all USA into race hate and weird gender insanity – he has caused Crime to Rocket up, – and allowing 6 million illegals to be brought in by the Drug Cartels – making them so many $Billions they can not believe it, he is letting all the drug Cartels operate in the USA Cities and allowing the Cartels to become powerful in USA and own Mexico – he then has made the CIA – FBI – NSA – and all the rest into His Private Secret Political Police to STEAL the elections and Repress, oppress the Decent Americans! By stealing the 2020 election he led USA’s First successful Coup!

He Created World War Three!! From a regional conflict which is nothing to do with us he spent $113 BILLION so far – according to many it is $200,000,000,000 Two Hundred Billion – if you add in other costs. He will spend a $TRILLION Rebuilding that nation wile he DESTROYS NORTH AMERICA! Causes a Global Depression and global Famine and the West bankrupted. That is after destroying Ukraine and causing half a million dead and disabled.

He blew up Germany’s Pipeline destroying their economy – and has basically wrecked the EU and UK, and Created a Axis Power of BRICS plus KSA, Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan, Iraq, UAE, and every rogue nation on earth to fight us. He has debased the $ US Dollar, threatening its position as Global Reserve – and he is head of an international Crime Family – openly!

Even Atilla the Hun and Genghis Khan have not done as much harm as Biden – – – AND Biden has not got the trains to run on time – Notice Palastine Ohio turned into a toxic death trap from his trains?

Last edited 1 year ago by Elliott Bjorn
Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Re the train station, isn’t that rather more on the watch of Trump eviscerating safety standards on trains to benefit the operators?

Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Definitively not, and you can ask the NTSB about it.

Peter Lee
Peter Lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Totally 100% debunked by Biden admin. dis- mis- mal- information. When are you supposedly intelligent people going to realized that when the Biden admin screws the go to position is to blame Trump. It’s obvious, so repetitive because Biden screws up virtually all the time.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Lee

But your default Blame Biden malfunction is more intelligent?

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Lee

But your default Blame Biden malfunction is more intelligent?

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Pushing back against that gargoyle rant will get you downvoted on this page, but you are quite right. The de-regulationist Republicans and Trumpistas are far more complicit in the tragedy. What will the Republicans in congress do or allow to pass in order to avert similar or worse disasters?

Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Definitively not, and you can ask the NTSB about it.

Peter Lee
Peter Lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Totally 100% debunked by Biden admin. dis- mis- mal- information. When are you supposedly intelligent people going to realized that when the Biden admin screws the go to position is to blame Trump. It’s obvious, so repetitive because Biden screws up virtually all the time.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Pushing back against that gargoyle rant will get you downvoted on this page, but you are quite right. The de-regulationist Republicans and Trumpistas are far more complicit in the tragedy. What will the Republicans in congress do or allow to pass in order to avert similar or worse disasters?

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

“He – killed and disabled more with his obscenely dangerous mRNA vax than covid ever did”. I think even you know you’re off the rails on that one man. Proof please. Are you getting some of your more outlandish claims from 8chan, Alex Smith podcasts, or the Dark Web? Wow.

Fafa Fafa
Fafa Fafa
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

The lockdowns started under Donald “you are not forgotten any more” Trump. Then again, what can any president do against the crony capitalist – government bureaucracy complex?

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Re the train station, isn’t that rather more on the watch of Trump eviscerating safety standards on trains to benefit the operators?

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

“He – killed and disabled more with his obscenely dangerous mRNA vax than covid ever did”. I think even you know you’re off the rails on that one man. Proof please. Are you getting some of your more outlandish claims from 8chan, Alex Smith podcasts, or the Dark Web? Wow.

Fafa Fafa
Fafa Fafa
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

The lockdowns started under Donald “you are not forgotten any more” Trump. Then again, what can any president do against the crony capitalist – government bureaucracy complex?

Elliott Bjorn
Elliott Bjorn
1 year ago

HaHaaaa, it is the way you tell them which makes it so hilarious, hahaaa

”But if you look at the facts, President Joe Biden appears to be doing alright.”

I assume this is in the

”;Mussolini did get the trains to run on time.”

kind of way – that Mussolini also destroyed his Nation and People, destroyed the economy, the infrastructure of Italy – and messed up some bits of the Serbian lands, and Albanians, and Abyssinia, and Libya, and so on – But – he appeared to do alright – Train Time Table wise…. Hahaaa – this writer is in a league of his own…..

The Biden, or ‘Big Guy’ as he is known, destroyed the USA Economy with lockdowns and insane money printing. He – killed and disabled more with his obscenely dangerous mRNA vax than covid ever did – cost the young of America over a year of education, created Inflation worst that any since the 1980s – and then Exported it to the World! He is dividing all USA into race hate and weird gender insanity – he has caused Crime to Rocket up, – and allowing 6 million illegals to be brought in by the Drug Cartels – making them so many $Billions they can not believe it, he is letting all the drug Cartels operate in the USA Cities and allowing the Cartels to become powerful in USA and own Mexico – he then has made the CIA – FBI – NSA – and all the rest into His Private Secret Political Police to STEAL the elections and Repress, oppress the Decent Americans! By stealing the 2020 election he led USA’s First successful Coup!

He Created World War Three!! From a regional conflict which is nothing to do with us he spent $113 BILLION so far – according to many it is $200,000,000,000 Two Hundred Billion – if you add in other costs. He will spend a $TRILLION Rebuilding that nation wile he DESTROYS NORTH AMERICA! Causes a Global Depression and global Famine and the West bankrupted. That is after destroying Ukraine and causing half a million dead and disabled.

He blew up Germany’s Pipeline destroying their economy – and has basically wrecked the EU and UK, and Created a Axis Power of BRICS plus KSA, Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan, Iraq, UAE, and every rogue nation on earth to fight us. He has debased the $ US Dollar, threatening its position as Global Reserve – and he is head of an international Crime Family – openly!

Even Atilla the Hun and Genghis Khan have not done as much harm as Biden – – – AND Biden has not got the trains to run on time – Notice Palastine Ohio turned into a toxic death trap from his trains?

Last edited 1 year ago by Elliott Bjorn
Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago

This is like reading Philip K. d**k’s “The Man in the High Tower”, an alternate reality where things are fundamentally different then the one we ordinarily inhabit.

Oh come on. It’s a proper name, for God sake. Look it up. At least leave the capitalization intact.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago

This is like reading Philip K. d**k’s “The Man in the High Tower”, an alternate reality where things are fundamentally different then the one we ordinarily inhabit.

Oh come on. It’s a proper name, for God sake. Look it up. At least leave the capitalization intact.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeff Cunningham
Mary Bruels
Mary Bruels
1 year ago

I sure would like some of what Oliver is smoking these days. Biden is tightly controlled by the far left of his party. He is clearly a puppet but the question is who is really putting the strings. Biden’s reputation as a “moderate” in his own party is murky at best. He has a record of following the wind. And now he is clearly in the throws of mid mental decline. I am often reminded of my own father’s descent into dementia when I see Joe’s shuffle, weird eye movements, and tendency to fly into a rage when confronted by someone or something that is confusing him. He is no moderate.

Mary Bruels
Mary Bruels
1 year ago

I sure would like some of what Oliver is smoking these days. Biden is tightly controlled by the far left of his party. He is clearly a puppet but the question is who is really putting the strings. Biden’s reputation as a “moderate” in his own party is murky at best. He has a record of following the wind. And now he is clearly in the throws of mid mental decline. I am often reminded of my own father’s descent into dementia when I see Joe’s shuffle, weird eye movements, and tendency to fly into a rage when confronted by someone or something that is confusing him. He is no moderate.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

Strange to describe the President who has increased the debt share of every taxpayer to $247,000 in this way.

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

As I understand it, but please correct me if I have the numbers wrong, but didn’t Trump increase the US budget deficit from less than c.$1tn to more than $3tn? Isn’t that rather more important than any changes under Biden?

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Am I being downvoted because I have got the facts wrong, or because you find them unpalatable? Please do tell!

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

The page is a cranky echo chamber. Downvotes without comment are a version of a point scored in this environment. But if you tempt them someone will often produce a ranting reply…
It’d be nice to have a more of a debate or discussion but some pages only have “loud agreement” and shouting down of dissent. And sometimes there’s no herd like the UnHerd.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

You haven’t been around here for long? Fact is that most people on Unherd pushed back against mainstream views certainly since 2020 when I joined up. We have been overwhelmingly vindicated as ‘consipiracy theory views’ have one after the other been proven correct.
Debate was pretty vigorous though. Maybe people backed off when they started to realise they were wrong?

Last edited 1 year ago by Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

You haven’t been around here for long? Fact is that most people on Unherd pushed back against mainstream views certainly since 2020 when I joined up. We have been overwhelmingly vindicated as ‘consipiracy theory views’ have one after the other been proven correct.
Debate was pretty vigorous though. Maybe people backed off when they started to realise they were wrong?

Last edited 1 year ago by Lesley van Reenen
AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

The page is a cranky echo chamber. Downvotes without comment are a version of a point scored in this environment. But if you tempt them someone will often produce a ranting reply…
It’d be nice to have a more of a debate or discussion but some pages only have “loud agreement” and shouting down of dissent. And sometimes there’s no herd like the UnHerd.

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Am I being downvoted because I have got the facts wrong, or because you find them unpalatable? Please do tell!

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

As I understand it, but please correct me if I have the numbers wrong, but didn’t Trump increase the US budget deficit from less than c.$1tn to more than $3tn? Isn’t that rather more important than any changes under Biden?

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

Strange to describe the President who has increased the debt share of every taxpayer to $247,000 in this way.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

In an earlier life Joe Biden spent much time and effort preventing the extradition of IRA killers from the US to UK.
No doubt some, not I, regard this as a simply SPLENDID achievement.

If he is the ‘best’ the US can throw up, God help us!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

In an earlier life Joe Biden spent much time and effort preventing the extradition of IRA killers from the US to UK.
No doubt some, not I, regard this as a simply SPLENDID achievement.

If he is the ‘best’ the US can throw up, God help us!

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago

Oh, come on, Oliver. Now you’re just trolling.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago

Oh, come on, Oliver. Now you’re just trolling.

Chauncey Gardiner
Chauncey Gardiner
1 year ago

More than two years of data are in, and the answer is definitively “No!”

Chauncey Gardiner
Chauncey Gardiner
1 year ago

More than two years of data are in, and the answer is definitively “No!”

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago

I must acknowledge that I am liking the change in Mr. Bateman as a comedic writer.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago

I must acknowledge that I am liking the change in Mr. Bateman as a comedic writer.

Terry M
Terry M
1 year ago

Not even wrong. Just silly.

Terry M
Terry M
1 year ago

Not even wrong. Just silly.

Peter Lee
Peter Lee
1 year ago

the Biden administration is not (and far from it) centrist. As Cheyney said ‘ she and the Dems will do all they can to prevent Pres Trump win the next election’. In their heart of hearts everybody in the US know that there is no longer such a thing as a fair election anymore. Another rubbish article by Unherd

Peter Lee
Peter Lee
1 year ago

the Biden administration is not (and far from it) centrist. As Cheyney said ‘ she and the Dems will do all they can to prevent Pres Trump win the next election’. In their heart of hearts everybody in the US know that there is no longer such a thing as a fair election anymore. Another rubbish article by Unherd

James Stangl
James Stangl
1 year ago

You’re joking, right? Calling Biden’s administration a success and him a centrist is delusional.

James Stangl
James Stangl
1 year ago

You’re joking, right? Calling Biden’s administration a success and him a centrist is delusional.

Ray Zacek
Ray Zacek
1 year ago

I couldn’t read more than a few paragraphs. I wrote off Joe Biden as a hack in 1988 and absolutely nothing in the interim has caused me to reconsider. I have more contempt for this shambling, incoherent, corrupt, quasi-senescent hack than before. Joe Biden has been a persistent polyp in the bowels of American politics for close to 50 years.

Ray Zacek
Ray Zacek
1 year ago

I couldn’t read more than a few paragraphs. I wrote off Joe Biden as a hack in 1988 and absolutely nothing in the interim has caused me to reconsider. I have more contempt for this shambling, incoherent, corrupt, quasi-senescent hack than before. Joe Biden has been a persistent polyp in the bowels of American politics for close to 50 years.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 year ago

I have to push back against the notion that Biden is ‘doing’ much of anything outside of being a figurehead and somehow failing at it. He was picked to carry the establishment banner and save them from the existential threat of Trumpian populism because of what he was. He was a consummate Washington player who had managed to be so bland that he had avoided making many enemies among voters or colleagues over a long career. What he is now, however, is a doddering old man in a suit being propped up by an establishment in full damage control mode following Trump and the pandemic. Elections aside, he’s as much in charge of the USA as Charles III is in charge of the UK, and as a figurehead or as an actual leader, I’d probably prefer the latter as the King can actually manage to speak in complete sentences and can find his way off the stage without assistance. It isn’t as if Biden’s administration hasn’t tried to push the globalist agenda further. They’ve been prevented from doing so by the decentralized nature of the American system. A one vote Senate margin meant that a single Senator, Joe Manchin, was able to essentially hold the entire party to ransom and single-handedly dictate how far left the Democrats could push their agenda in their major legislation. He moderated much of what they wanted to do. In the end, the Dems couldn’t reconcile their extreme left with Joe and ‘build back better’ the main vehicle for the Democrats’ social agenda, is dead at his hand. There’s also the issue that the Republicans control most state governments and local governments outside the major metros. There’s a limit to what can be accomplished even with complete control of Congress and the Presidency. I’m not sure I’d call two years of double digit inflation ‘success’. Also, while most Americans did support withdrawal in principle, the execution of the Afghanistan withdrawal was, to be polite, so haphazard as to be embarrassing. I’m also not sure what the author is wanting? Glenn Youngkin and Ron DeSantis are not centrists. This is the same DeSantis that bussed migrants to Martha’s Vineyard as a stunt and basically told a multinational corporation (Disney) to get out of politics. Youngkin beat a more moderate challenger in the primary and his victory was a shocking upset. Their mannerisms might be moderate, and their origins might be approved by the powers that be, but they’ve ridden the wave of populism as much as Trump himself. If that’s centrism, then centrism is basically indistinguishable from common sense populism and what the author wants is populists who don’t alienate wide swaths of voters with odious personal behavior and who don’t post insulting twitter comments at 3AM like an attention seeking teenager. If that’s what we’re calling centrism now, then I’m all for it.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 year ago

I have to push back against the notion that Biden is ‘doing’ much of anything outside of being a figurehead and somehow failing at it. He was picked to carry the establishment banner and save them from the existential threat of Trumpian populism because of what he was. He was a consummate Washington player who had managed to be so bland that he had avoided making many enemies among voters or colleagues over a long career. What he is now, however, is a doddering old man in a suit being propped up by an establishment in full damage control mode following Trump and the pandemic. Elections aside, he’s as much in charge of the USA as Charles III is in charge of the UK, and as a figurehead or as an actual leader, I’d probably prefer the latter as the King can actually manage to speak in complete sentences and can find his way off the stage without assistance. It isn’t as if Biden’s administration hasn’t tried to push the globalist agenda further. They’ve been prevented from doing so by the decentralized nature of the American system. A one vote Senate margin meant that a single Senator, Joe Manchin, was able to essentially hold the entire party to ransom and single-handedly dictate how far left the Democrats could push their agenda in their major legislation. He moderated much of what they wanted to do. In the end, the Dems couldn’t reconcile their extreme left with Joe and ‘build back better’ the main vehicle for the Democrats’ social agenda, is dead at his hand. There’s also the issue that the Republicans control most state governments and local governments outside the major metros. There’s a limit to what can be accomplished even with complete control of Congress and the Presidency. I’m not sure I’d call two years of double digit inflation ‘success’. Also, while most Americans did support withdrawal in principle, the execution of the Afghanistan withdrawal was, to be polite, so haphazard as to be embarrassing. I’m also not sure what the author is wanting? Glenn Youngkin and Ron DeSantis are not centrists. This is the same DeSantis that bussed migrants to Martha’s Vineyard as a stunt and basically told a multinational corporation (Disney) to get out of politics. Youngkin beat a more moderate challenger in the primary and his victory was a shocking upset. Their mannerisms might be moderate, and their origins might be approved by the powers that be, but they’ve ridden the wave of populism as much as Trump himself. If that’s centrism, then centrism is basically indistinguishable from common sense populism and what the author wants is populists who don’t alienate wide swaths of voters with odious personal behavior and who don’t post insulting twitter comments at 3AM like an attention seeking teenager. If that’s what we’re calling centrism now, then I’m all for it.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Jolly
j watson
j watson
1 year ago

Midterms seemed to confirm ‘swing voters’ yearning for moderation. Thus regardless of views on Biden that’s the main contention from the Article, painful though that may be for either further Right or Left exponents. Does feel like something similar happening in UK too, and it’s often the pattern after more crazy times.
Whether Democrats can find a centrist with the comms skills of a Clinton remain to be seen. As regards Biden, he’ll be same age as Gladstone when he won his last UK election if he wins in 24. So not entirely unprecedented.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
j watson
j watson
1 year ago

Midterms seemed to confirm ‘swing voters’ yearning for moderation. Thus regardless of views on Biden that’s the main contention from the Article, painful though that may be for either further Right or Left exponents. Does feel like something similar happening in UK too, and it’s often the pattern after more crazy times.
Whether Democrats can find a centrist with the comms skills of a Clinton remain to be seen. As regards Biden, he’ll be same age as Gladstone when he won his last UK election if he wins in 24. So not entirely unprecedented.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
1 year ago

Oh, Bateman, there you go again.

Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
1 year ago

Oh, Bateman, there you go again.

Brian Villanueva
Brian Villanueva
1 year ago

As absurd as it sounds to say “Biden’s doing alright”, I can see what the author is saying here. However, he completely ignores the role of the parties.
Biden himself is not an ideologue. But he is surrounded and managed by ideologues. What good is a centrist who’s too weak to defend centrism from the lunatics of his own party?
Countries are usually destroyed not by a leader’s malevolence but by his simple incompetence. Bold, evil men are usually too obvious to win elections; it’s often weak leaders who do the most damage by their sheer unwillingness to lead. Biden may be a centrist, but the Biden administration is run by the Democratic Party, which has gone completely insane.

Last edited 1 year ago by Brian Villanueva
Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago

Coming from the other side of the Pond I do find it strange, and indeed somewhat amusingly ridiculous, to hear in America the Democrats &/or Biden described as Left, far Left, crazy Left or whatever. You guys really have no idea!

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

The whole right/left paradigm is becoming rather irrelevant anyway. It’s basically rural nationalist traditional decentralized Republicans vs. globalist urban progressive centralized Democrats. The old left/right spectrum with communism on one end and liberal democracy on the other is not particularly useful in understanding American politics at this moment. The closest analogy to the Republicans would probably be a nationalist like Farage. The political spectra of the UK is much further to the traditional ‘left’ than the US, and both your parties exist within an entirely different political window, but I suspect from what I read here that the differences between your major parties are not largely related to the old right/left paradigm either.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Jolly
Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

The main opposition in the UK, The Labour Party, is indeed moving towards the centre to take up the electable space, but there still is a ‘hard left’ beyond it. The Conservative Party is most definitely on the Right, even if those on it’s Right end deny that – the extremists will always accuse those less extreme of being sell-outs! Surely you can’t say that ‘liberal democracy’ is at the Right end of the political spectrum?

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Yes, that is a heavily weighted spectrum using a radical or (in practice often) totalitarian example for the left and and centrist and arguably left-leaning one for the right, instead of A.H. or Pinochet or whomever. The whole spectrum: far-left to center- left.

Jon Barrow
Jon Barrow
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

It’s not quite that simple, at least here in the UK. For instance, there are a few different types of Conservative voters – traditional social conservatives (without much representation in politics, the media etc.), classical liberal free trade types (who dominate the parliamentary Conservative Party), legacy Conservatives who perhaps distrust Labour and/or vote on the basis of family/regional tradition. Following in the American tradition, we are losing sight of old-fashioned Roger Scruton/Burkean type conservatism, which highly values community, nation, tradition without so much focus on individualism, choice, freedom.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Yes, that is a heavily weighted spectrum using a radical or (in practice often) totalitarian example for the left and and centrist and arguably left-leaning one for the right, instead of A.H. or Pinochet or whomever. The whole spectrum: far-left to center- left.

Jon Barrow
Jon Barrow
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

It’s not quite that simple, at least here in the UK. For instance, there are a few different types of Conservative voters – traditional social conservatives (without much representation in politics, the media etc.), classical liberal free trade types (who dominate the parliamentary Conservative Party), legacy Conservatives who perhaps distrust Labour and/or vote on the basis of family/regional tradition. Following in the American tradition, we are losing sight of old-fashioned Roger Scruton/Burkean type conservatism, which highly values community, nation, tradition without so much focus on individualism, choice, freedom.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

They don’t fall neatly or reliably into that paradigm, but the differences are still related to it. Even when there is little sincerity, the Democrats still talk more about social liberties and some US version of a social safety net, while Republicans are more apt to talk about religious liberties and protection of property/traditional authority. I admit the distinction is moving toward irrelevance and exists within a system largely coopted by corporations and special interests.
I don’t think the left/right divide has been obliterated, but grievance populism, under Trump and beyond, has drawn many to the Republican side, or further to the right than almost any elected Republican, into secessionist talk and the like.
(update: I see that I have mistaken your side of the pond. I’m in America too. Even if the center is re-located there is still some version of a spectrum. But I agree that the left/right split is even less useful or accurate than it was. Maybe globalist/localist has some present-day salience. And maybe we need to discuss individual people and situations with a less-easy recourse to categories. The shorthand is convenient, but limiting. If I were to guess you are something like a libertarian populist and you agreed, would I know all your views? Probably not. I hope not–for any broad category).

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

The main opposition in the UK, The Labour Party, is indeed moving towards the centre to take up the electable space, but there still is a ‘hard left’ beyond it. The Conservative Party is most definitely on the Right, even if those on it’s Right end deny that – the extremists will always accuse those less extreme of being sell-outs! Surely you can’t say that ‘liberal democracy’ is at the Right end of the political spectrum?

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

They don’t fall neatly or reliably into that paradigm, but the differences are still related to it. Even when there is little sincerity, the Democrats still talk more about social liberties and some US version of a social safety net, while Republicans are more apt to talk about religious liberties and protection of property/traditional authority. I admit the distinction is moving toward irrelevance and exists within a system largely coopted by corporations and special interests.
I don’t think the left/right divide has been obliterated, but grievance populism, under Trump and beyond, has drawn many to the Republican side, or further to the right than almost any elected Republican, into secessionist talk and the like.
(update: I see that I have mistaken your side of the pond. I’m in America too. Even if the center is re-located there is still some version of a spectrum. But I agree that the left/right split is even less useful or accurate than it was. Maybe globalist/localist has some present-day salience. And maybe we need to discuss individual people and situations with a less-easy recourse to categories. The shorthand is convenient, but limiting. If I were to guess you are something like a libertarian populist and you agreed, would I know all your views? Probably not. I hope not–for any broad category).

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

The whole right/left paradigm is becoming rather irrelevant anyway. It’s basically rural nationalist traditional decentralized Republicans vs. globalist urban progressive centralized Democrats. The old left/right spectrum with communism on one end and liberal democracy on the other is not particularly useful in understanding American politics at this moment. The closest analogy to the Republicans would probably be a nationalist like Farage. The political spectra of the UK is much further to the traditional ‘left’ than the US, and both your parties exist within an entirely different political window, but I suspect from what I read here that the differences between your major parties are not largely related to the old right/left paradigm either.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Jolly
Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago

Coming from the other side of the Pond I do find it strange, and indeed somewhat amusingly ridiculous, to hear in America the Democrats &/or Biden described as Left, far Left, crazy Left or whatever. You guys really have no idea!

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Those who think Biden is far left of center might be living in an echo chamber or house of mirrors where the political center seems to run through the center of their own heads.
If Biden is far left, I suppose Bernie is well to the left of Lenin.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Those who think Biden is far left of center might be living in an echo chamber or house of mirrors where the political center seems to run through the center of their own heads.
If Biden is far left, I suppose Bernie is well to the left of Lenin.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac