I didn’t know that. I abhor that site with a passion. I aspire to be the complete opposite of the emasculated men who write those smug articles for it.
So he is a living breathing advert for steroids; one of those men who repulses any reasonably normal male. What we used to be able to call a f****** (in the South Park not the gay sense)
I didn’t know that. I abhor that site with a passion. I aspire to be the complete opposite of the emasculated men who write those smug articles for it.
So he is a living breathing advert for steroids; one of those men who repulses any reasonably normal male. What we used to be able to call a f****** (in the South Park not the gay sense)
I remember a panic over steroids being the subject of an episode of ‘The Cook Report’ in the early 90s. Everything old is new again.
And once again, there is no such thing as ‘toxic masculinity’. There are only toxic people – of both sexes.
Phillipa Fioretti
2 years ago
To see young men objectifying themselves in order to feel better is to see what young women have been doing since forever.
It is tragic for all of us, driven by the ever growing visual nature of our screen based culture and the lack of meaning and belonging this generates.
Lack of access to status drives the size of trucks young men drive, the size of their muscles, the size of their resentment and bewilderment.
I’d say we’ve let them down, but I won’t bear responsibility for the technology driven hypercapitalists and their project of making us all into products that have personal branding, rather than humans who have belonging and secure purpose.
I agree with everything you say with the exception of blaming “hypercapitalists”, whatever that is.
The real issues is found in the quote, “….lying is the oldest and most effective performance enhancer of all…” Humans everywhere seem to be predisposed to lying in order to obtain an unfair advantage somehow. Lying started with Adam and Eve in the Old Testament. Long before capitalism.
I agree with everything you say with the exception of blaming “hypercapitalists”, whatever that is.
The real issues is found in the quote, “….lying is the oldest and most effective performance enhancer of all…” Humans everywhere seem to be predisposed to lying in order to obtain an unfair advantage somehow. Lying started with Adam and Eve in the Old Testament. Long before capitalism.
Phillipa Fioretti
2 years ago
To see young men objectifying themselves in order to feel better is to see what young women have been doing since forever.
It is tragic for all of us, driven by the ever growing visual nature of our screen based culture and the lack of meaning and belonging this generates.
Lack of access to status drives the size of trucks young men drive, the size of their muscles, the size of their resentment and bewilderment.
I’d say we’ve let them down, but I won’t bear responsibility for the technology driven hypercapitalists and their project of making us all into products that have personal branding, rather than humans who have belonging and secure purpose.
j watson
2 years ago
The Author doesn’t mention ‘Roid Rage’ – the tendency for anabolic steroids in some to increase aggression and potential threatening behaviour – and where that can have behaviour implications for the others too. It’s at that point perhaps this crosses a line of concern from free choice to a wider concern? Would have been interesting to hear Author touch on this.
The Author doesn’t mention ‘Roid Rage’ – the tendency for anabolic steroids in some to increase aggression and potential threatening behaviour – and where that can have behaviour implications for the others too. It’s at that point perhaps this crosses a line of concern from free choice to a wider concern? Would have been interesting to hear Author touch on this.
Allison Barrows
2 years ago
Oliver Bateman has a real problem – with other guys. My guess is one too many atomic wedgies.
Oliver Bateman has a real problem – with other guys. My guess is one too many atomic wedgies.
Richard Craven
2 years ago
Zyzz was probably over-compensating for being the last name in the phonebook.
Richard Craven
2 years ago
Zyzz was probably over-compensating for being the last name in the phonebook.
Chris Milburn
2 years ago
I disagree with the characterization of bodybuilders as “athletes”. They are no more “athletes” than Sly Stallone or Dwayne Johnson is an “athlete” when they steroid themselves to bulk up for a role. Achieving a look that is judged subjectively is very different than pursuing a sporting goal (higher, faster, stronger).
To me, this toxic use of steroids is just another part of “transhumanism”. Like the transgender issue, it’s about feeling that we can be born in a body that we don’t want. And transhumanism promises we can “fix” it.
“You can never get enough of what you weren’t really looking for in the first place”
Chris Milburn
2 years ago
I disagree with the characterization of bodybuilders as “athletes”. They are no more “athletes” than Sly Stallone or Dwayne Johnson is an “athlete” when they steroid themselves to bulk up for a role. Achieving a look that is judged subjectively is very different than pursuing a sporting goal (higher, faster, stronger).
To me, this toxic use of steroids is just another part of “transhumanism”. Like the transgender issue, it’s about feeling that we can be born in a body that we don’t want. And transhumanism promises we can “fix” it.
“You can never get enough of what you weren’t really looking for in the first place”
William Shaw
2 years ago
People are (or should be) free to do whatever they want to their “meat bag.”
Certainly women, in varying degrees, have been doing it from time immemorial.
It’s not the job of the government to restrict self modification.
Controls to prevent danger to minors and exploitation by illicit organisations are reasonable but impingement on individual freedoms is not acceptable.
As other commenters point out, the trouble with applying bodily autonomy to the case of steroids is the effect steroid use sometimes has on behaviour.
William Shaw
2 years ago
People are (or should be) free to do whatever they want to their “meat bag.”
Certainly women, in varying degrees, have been doing it from time immemorial.
It’s not the job of the government to restrict self modification.
Controls to prevent danger to minors and exploitation by illicit organisations are reasonable but impingement on individual freedoms is not acceptable.
Richard Craven
2 years ago
I go to the gym because I like being reasonably big, strong, and fit, but would hate to look like a body-builder.
Richard Craven
2 years ago
I go to the gym because I like being reasonably big, strong, and fit, but would hate to look like a body-builder.
Jonny Stud
2 years ago
‘The similarity is that Zane was a professional show-pony, training his body to win aesthetic approval in exactly the same way as Zyzz but in the medium of public show because social media wasn’t invented then’ – corrected it for you. If youtube was around in Zane’s heyday who’s to say he wouldn’t have used it in the same way? The author seems to demonise one person for doing the exact same thing as another.
Jonny Stud
2 years ago
‘The similarity is that Zane was a professional show-pony, training his body to win aesthetic approval in exactly the same way as Zyzz but in the medium of public show because social media wasn’t invented then’ – corrected it for you. If youtube was around in Zane’s heyday who’s to say he wouldn’t have used it in the same way? The author seems to demonise one person for doing the exact same thing as another.
Brian Villanueva
2 years ago
The interesting thing just hinted at in this article is the idea that weaker men may well have been the primary beneficiaries of modern, industrial capitalism. In a world where physical strength was necessary for more jobs, such men (and women) would suffer.
What the industrial revolution did for physical work in the 20th century, the computing and AI revolution is doing for mental work in the 21st. I wonder if history will repeat itself? Will AI allow the less talented to compete the way powered machinery allowed the less physically talented to do so?
I’m pretty wary of machine learning too, Warren. But I’m trying to come up with reasons it might not be dystopic. We’ve been increasing the level of intelligence needed to successfully navigate and compete in modern, industrialized society for a couple of centuries. Maybe machine learning can help level that playing field. I’m a geek; in the pre-industrial world, I die. So I have some sympathy for those who have been left out of this one.
I’m pretty wary of machine learning too, Warren. But I’m trying to come up with reasons it might not be dystopic. We’ve been increasing the level of intelligence needed to successfully navigate and compete in modern, industrialized society for a couple of centuries. Maybe machine learning can help level that playing field. I’m a geek; in the pre-industrial world, I die. So I have some sympathy for those who have been left out of this one.
If the prevailing goal is to make everyone equal, then you would be correct. God help us all.
Brian Villanueva
2 years ago
The interesting thing just hinted at in this article is the idea that weaker men may well have been the primary beneficiaries of modern, industrial capitalism. In a world where physical strength was necessary for more jobs, such men (and women) would suffer.
What the industrial revolution did for physical work in the 20th century, the computing and AI revolution is doing for mental work in the 21st. I wonder if history will repeat itself? Will AI allow the less talented to compete the way powered machinery allowed the less physically talented to do so?
michael stanwick
2 years ago
Is the description of the disorder akin to muscle and body dysmorphia?
michael stanwick
2 years ago
Is the description of the disorder akin to muscle and body dysmorphia?
Nicky Samengo-Turner
2 years ago
Slender toff with charm and manners beats butch oik bodybuilder to the eye of the lovely maiden every time…
Nicky Samengo-Turner
2 years ago
Slender toff with charm and manners beats butch oik bodybuilder to the eye of the lovely maiden every time…
Charles Hedges
2 years ago
Since the late 1960s, many young men have been given the choice of either being effete ineffectual office worker, body builders or coarse crude oiks like Andrew Tate. Swearing has become a sign of toughness. Jeremy Clarkson’s ” The Greatest Raid of of All ” interviewed Commandos who survived on the St Nazaire Raid. Officers such as Corran Purdon MC, Dr Tiger Watson.MC and Micky Burn MC were very tough, fit and not over muscled. Watson became a doctor and Burn a poet. Jeremy Clarkson’s the Greatest Raid of All – the FULL documentary | North One – YouTube
Ian Woolridge’s documentary on the training of the RMC ” Arctic and Mountaineering Warfare Cadre ” shows instructors are very articulate, skilled fit and agile, not coarse crude oiks. Royal Marines: Behind the Lines: Episode 1 – Fain Would I Climb – YouTube
Nowadays, reality for most young is whatever comes out of a screen. Most in the media only associate with other middle class types.Are there any writers/media types on cultural issues and/or media types who have served in elite British and Commonwealth military units or have friends /family who have done so? Perhaps a modern day Micky Burn MC or Patrick Leigh Fermour DSO, OBE ?
Charles Hedges
2 years ago
Since the late 1960s, many young men have been given the choice of either being effete ineffectual office worker, body builders or coarse crude oiks like Andrew Tate. Swearing has become a sign of toughness. Jeremy Clarkson’s ” The Greatest Raid of of All ” interviewed Commandos who survived on the St Nazaire Raid. Officers such as Corran Purdon MC, Dr Tiger Watson.MC and Micky Burn MC were very tough, fit and not over muscled. Watson became a doctor and Burn a poet. Jeremy Clarkson’s the Greatest Raid of All – the FULL documentary | North One – YouTube
Ian Woolridge’s documentary on the training of the RMC ” Arctic and Mountaineering Warfare Cadre ” shows instructors are very articulate, skilled fit and agile, not coarse crude oiks. Royal Marines: Behind the Lines: Episode 1 – Fain Would I Climb – YouTube
Nowadays, reality for most young is whatever comes out of a screen. Most in the media only associate with other middle class types.Are there any writers/media types on cultural issues and/or media types who have served in elite British and Commonwealth military units or have friends /family who have done so? Perhaps a modern day Micky Burn MC or Patrick Leigh Fermour DSO, OBE ?
I remember a panic over steroids being the subject of an episode of ‘The Cook Report’ in the early 90s. Everything old is new again.
And once again, there is no such thing as ‘toxic masculinity’. There are only toxic people – of both sexes.
The author is both toxic and male
He worked for the ‘Good Man Project’, which tells you everything you need to know.
I didn’t know that. I abhor that site with a passion. I aspire to be the complete opposite of the emasculated men who write those smug articles for it.
I’ve just looked at it, and am duly nauseated.
So he is a living breathing advert for steroids; one of those men who repulses any reasonably normal male. What we used to be able to call a f****** (in the South Park not the gay sense)
I didn’t know that. I abhor that site with a passion. I aspire to be the complete opposite of the emasculated men who write those smug articles for it.
I’ve just looked at it, and am duly nauseated.
So he is a living breathing advert for steroids; one of those men who repulses any reasonably normal male. What we used to be able to call a f****** (in the South Park not the gay sense)
He worked for the ‘Good Man Project’, which tells you everything you need to know.
The author is both toxic and male
I remember a panic over steroids being the subject of an episode of ‘The Cook Report’ in the early 90s. Everything old is new again.
And once again, there is no such thing as ‘toxic masculinity’. There are only toxic people – of both sexes.
To see young men objectifying themselves in order to feel better is to see what young women have been doing since forever.
It is tragic for all of us, driven by the ever growing visual nature of our screen based culture and the lack of meaning and belonging this generates.
Lack of access to status drives the size of trucks young men drive, the size of their muscles, the size of their resentment and bewilderment.
I’d say we’ve let them down, but I won’t bear responsibility for the technology driven hypercapitalists and their project of making us all into products that have personal branding, rather than humans who have belonging and secure purpose.
I agree with everything you say with the exception of blaming “hypercapitalists”, whatever that is.
The real issues is found in the quote, “….lying is the oldest and most effective performance enhancer of all…” Humans everywhere seem to be predisposed to lying in order to obtain an unfair advantage somehow. Lying started with Adam and Eve in the Old Testament. Long before capitalism.
I agree with everything you say with the exception of blaming “hypercapitalists”, whatever that is.
The real issues is found in the quote, “….lying is the oldest and most effective performance enhancer of all…” Humans everywhere seem to be predisposed to lying in order to obtain an unfair advantage somehow. Lying started with Adam and Eve in the Old Testament. Long before capitalism.
To see young men objectifying themselves in order to feel better is to see what young women have been doing since forever.
It is tragic for all of us, driven by the ever growing visual nature of our screen based culture and the lack of meaning and belonging this generates.
Lack of access to status drives the size of trucks young men drive, the size of their muscles, the size of their resentment and bewilderment.
I’d say we’ve let them down, but I won’t bear responsibility for the technology driven hypercapitalists and their project of making us all into products that have personal branding, rather than humans who have belonging and secure purpose.
The Author doesn’t mention ‘Roid Rage’ – the tendency for anabolic steroids in some to increase aggression and potential threatening behaviour – and where that can have behaviour implications for the others too. It’s at that point perhaps this crosses a line of concern from free choice to a wider concern? Would have been interesting to hear Author touch on this.
Excellent point.
Excellent point.
The Author doesn’t mention ‘Roid Rage’ – the tendency for anabolic steroids in some to increase aggression and potential threatening behaviour – and where that can have behaviour implications for the others too. It’s at that point perhaps this crosses a line of concern from free choice to a wider concern? Would have been interesting to hear Author touch on this.
Oliver Bateman has a real problem – with other guys. My guess is one too many atomic wedgies.
LOL. Agreed!
LOL. Agreed!
Oliver Bateman has a real problem – with other guys. My guess is one too many atomic wedgies.
Zyzz was probably over-compensating for being the last name in the phonebook.
Zyzz was probably over-compensating for being the last name in the phonebook.
I disagree with the characterization of bodybuilders as “athletes”. They are no more “athletes” than Sly Stallone or Dwayne Johnson is an “athlete” when they steroid themselves to bulk up for a role. Achieving a look that is judged subjectively is very different than pursuing a sporting goal (higher, faster, stronger).
To me, this toxic use of steroids is just another part of “transhumanism”. Like the transgender issue, it’s about feeling that we can be born in a body that we don’t want. And transhumanism promises we can “fix” it.
“You can never get enough of what you weren’t really looking for in the first place”
I disagree with the characterization of bodybuilders as “athletes”. They are no more “athletes” than Sly Stallone or Dwayne Johnson is an “athlete” when they steroid themselves to bulk up for a role. Achieving a look that is judged subjectively is very different than pursuing a sporting goal (higher, faster, stronger).
To me, this toxic use of steroids is just another part of “transhumanism”. Like the transgender issue, it’s about feeling that we can be born in a body that we don’t want. And transhumanism promises we can “fix” it.
“You can never get enough of what you weren’t really looking for in the first place”
People are (or should be) free to do whatever they want to their “meat bag.”
Certainly women, in varying degrees, have been doing it from time immemorial.
It’s not the job of the government to restrict self modification.
Controls to prevent danger to minors and exploitation by illicit organisations are reasonable but impingement on individual freedoms is not acceptable.
As other commenters point out, the trouble with applying bodily autonomy to the case of steroids is the effect steroid use sometimes has on behaviour.
As other commenters point out, the trouble with applying bodily autonomy to the case of steroids is the effect steroid use sometimes has on behaviour.
People are (or should be) free to do whatever they want to their “meat bag.”
Certainly women, in varying degrees, have been doing it from time immemorial.
It’s not the job of the government to restrict self modification.
Controls to prevent danger to minors and exploitation by illicit organisations are reasonable but impingement on individual freedoms is not acceptable.
I go to the gym because I like being reasonably big, strong, and fit, but would hate to look like a body-builder.
I go to the gym because I like being reasonably big, strong, and fit, but would hate to look like a body-builder.
‘The similarity is that Zane was a professional show-pony, training his body to win aesthetic approval in exactly the same way as Zyzz but in the medium of public show because social media wasn’t invented then’ – corrected it for you. If youtube was around in Zane’s heyday who’s to say he wouldn’t have used it in the same way? The author seems to demonise one person for doing the exact same thing as another.
‘The similarity is that Zane was a professional show-pony, training his body to win aesthetic approval in exactly the same way as Zyzz but in the medium of public show because social media wasn’t invented then’ – corrected it for you. If youtube was around in Zane’s heyday who’s to say he wouldn’t have used it in the same way? The author seems to demonise one person for doing the exact same thing as another.
The interesting thing just hinted at in this article is the idea that weaker men may well have been the primary beneficiaries of modern, industrial capitalism. In a world where physical strength was necessary for more jobs, such men (and women) would suffer.
What the industrial revolution did for physical work in the 20th century, the computing and AI revolution is doing for mental work in the 21st. I wonder if history will repeat itself? Will AI allow the less talented to compete the way powered machinery allowed the less physically talented to do so?
If the prevailing goal is to make everyone equal, then you would be correct. God help us all.
I’m pretty wary of machine learning too, Warren. But I’m trying to come up with reasons it might not be dystopic. We’ve been increasing the level of intelligence needed to successfully navigate and compete in modern, industrialized society for a couple of centuries. Maybe machine learning can help level that playing field. I’m a geek; in the pre-industrial world, I die. So I have some sympathy for those who have been left out of this one.
I’m pretty wary of machine learning too, Warren. But I’m trying to come up with reasons it might not be dystopic. We’ve been increasing the level of intelligence needed to successfully navigate and compete in modern, industrialized society for a couple of centuries. Maybe machine learning can help level that playing field. I’m a geek; in the pre-industrial world, I die. So I have some sympathy for those who have been left out of this one.
If the prevailing goal is to make everyone equal, then you would be correct. God help us all.
The interesting thing just hinted at in this article is the idea that weaker men may well have been the primary beneficiaries of modern, industrial capitalism. In a world where physical strength was necessary for more jobs, such men (and women) would suffer.
What the industrial revolution did for physical work in the 20th century, the computing and AI revolution is doing for mental work in the 21st. I wonder if history will repeat itself? Will AI allow the less talented to compete the way powered machinery allowed the less physically talented to do so?
Is the description of the disorder akin to muscle and body dysmorphia?
Is the description of the disorder akin to muscle and body dysmorphia?
Slender toff with charm and manners beats butch oik bodybuilder to the eye of the lovely maiden every time…
Slender toff with charm and manners beats butch oik bodybuilder to the eye of the lovely maiden every time…
Since the late 1960s, many young men have been given the choice of either being effete ineffectual office worker, body builders or coarse crude oiks like Andrew Tate. Swearing has become a sign of toughness. Jeremy Clarkson’s ” The Greatest Raid of of All ” interviewed Commandos who survived on the St Nazaire Raid. Officers such as Corran Purdon MC, Dr Tiger Watson.MC and Micky Burn MC were very tough, fit and not over muscled. Watson became a doctor and Burn a poet.
Jeremy Clarkson’s the Greatest Raid of All – the FULL documentary | North One – YouTube
Ian Woolridge’s documentary on the training of the RMC ” Arctic and Mountaineering Warfare Cadre ” shows instructors are very articulate, skilled fit and agile, not coarse crude oiks.
Royal Marines: Behind the Lines: Episode 1 – Fain Would I Climb – YouTube
Nowadays, reality for most young is whatever comes out of a screen. Most in the media only associate with other middle class types.Are there any writers/media types on cultural issues and/or media types who have served in elite British and Commonwealth military units or have friends /family who have done so? Perhaps a modern day Micky Burn MC or Patrick Leigh Fermour DSO, OBE ?
Since the late 1960s, many young men have been given the choice of either being effete ineffectual office worker, body builders or coarse crude oiks like Andrew Tate. Swearing has become a sign of toughness. Jeremy Clarkson’s ” The Greatest Raid of of All ” interviewed Commandos who survived on the St Nazaire Raid. Officers such as Corran Purdon MC, Dr Tiger Watson.MC and Micky Burn MC were very tough, fit and not over muscled. Watson became a doctor and Burn a poet.
Jeremy Clarkson’s the Greatest Raid of All – the FULL documentary | North One – YouTube
Ian Woolridge’s documentary on the training of the RMC ” Arctic and Mountaineering Warfare Cadre ” shows instructors are very articulate, skilled fit and agile, not coarse crude oiks.
Royal Marines: Behind the Lines: Episode 1 – Fain Would I Climb – YouTube
Nowadays, reality for most young is whatever comes out of a screen. Most in the media only associate with other middle class types.Are there any writers/media types on cultural issues and/or media types who have served in elite British and Commonwealth military units or have friends /family who have done so? Perhaps a modern day Micky Burn MC or Patrick Leigh Fermour DSO, OBE ?