If one has ever undertaken hard manual labour, out of doors in winter in the sleety rain and wind,live in the north in an old drafty house, traditional British food makes sense. The British navvy breakfasted on beef and beer and could excavate 20T of soil per day in all weathers. The archer could draw up to 200 lb bow 24 times in two minutes and fight a whole day.
If one lives in a modern warm home, work in an office and one eats traditional British food and portions, then one is digging one’s grave with one’s teeth. The Greek diet is a healthier option.
Britain was the first country to send women to work in factories, mills and mines so bought cooked food became more important. We were the first country to beome 50 % urban and by 1900 it was 80%. Canned food became common from the 1870s. People living then squalid slums were cut off from good ingredients and many had inadequate cooking facilities.We also underwent rationing from 1939 to 1953 and then American processed food arrived from the 1960s and fast food from the 1970s.
The decline in food in Britin mirrors our decline as a nation, especially health and fitness.
Good British cooking became an endangered species largely found in the countryside.
Seconded! Can’t beat a sunny, frosty winter morning. Nor a treacle sponge, come to that.
When I was a child, my grandfather and I delighted in sharing both – the sponge usually following my grandmother’s generous Yorkshire luncheon, the whole being preceded by a winter’s morning walk on the Westwood (Beverley’s town common). Funny how a simple pudding can be so evocative. Thank you for sparking the memory!
Seconded! Can’t beat a sunny, frosty winter morning. Nor a treacle sponge, come to that.
When I was a child, my grandfather and I delighted in sharing both – the sponge usually following my grandmother’s generous Yorkshire luncheon, the whole being preceded by a winter’s morning walk on the Westwood (Beverley’s town common). Funny how a simple pudding can be so evocative. Thank you for sparking the memory!
I beg your pardon but Britain is not the only cold place on earth and as such, its cuisine still doesn’t make much sense compared to the mouth watering stews and meals of similar climate countries like France, Germany, Poland….no. That argument doesn’t hold much weight.
Have you worked out of doors doing manual labour in winter on a hillside exposed to the bitterly cold winds from north or northeast?
Britain is an island with a climate which is very good good for growing grass and woodlands which meant plenty of cereals, meat, milk, cheese and fish. One needs to study the diet of pre Industrial Britain. Hence Wilkes comment “Beef and liberty “.
Yes.
I am from the Midwest of the United States. And I have done all of that. Chicago is one of the coldest places in the country and when I was younger I worked with horses in rural areas where the wind temp was -30F. Our children were allowed to play on the playground when it was single digits outside.
Again. England is not the only cold place on earth. Barely one of the coldest, actually.
It is calories burnt and strength needed. Strength requires high protein diet. The steak and beer diet of the navvy enabled them to shift 20 T of soil or rock in a day in all weathers. A sailor in the Royal Navy in days of sail consumed about 4500 calories and those exploring at the poles and undertaking mountain/arctic warfare are on about 8000 calories. In addition they were not wearing modern clothing so surface of body would be wet from sweat and rain and hence evaporation of water would burn up calories.
It is the combination wind and rain/sleet especially when not wearing water proof clothing which induces hypothermia even at temperatures as high 10 C, hence people getting into trouble in summer in places such as Brecon Beacons, Dartmoor, Lake District.
The Innuit have a very high calorific diet.
It’s not the cold, it’s the combination of cold and wet that makes the difference. Ask any soldier who has trained in winter in Wales, Dartmoor or Scotland!
It is calories burnt and strength needed. Strength requires high protein diet. The steak and beer diet of the navvy enabled them to shift 20 T of soil or rock in a day in all weathers. A sailor in the Royal Navy in days of sail consumed about 4500 calories and those exploring at the poles and undertaking mountain/arctic warfare are on about 8000 calories. In addition they were not wearing modern clothing so surface of body would be wet from sweat and rain and hence evaporation of water would burn up calories.
It is the combination wind and rain/sleet especially when not wearing water proof clothing which induces hypothermia even at temperatures as high 10 C, hence people getting into trouble in summer in places such as Brecon Beacons, Dartmoor, Lake District.
The Innuit have a very high calorific diet.
It’s not the cold, it’s the combination of cold and wet that makes the difference. Ask any soldier who has trained in winter in Wales, Dartmoor or Scotland!
I have. So did many of the women who cooked the food that you celebrate from the past.
Working class and rural women have always worked. They just weren’t always recognised or paid for it.
Women have always worked. What made the difference was the creation of factories, mines and mills with rigid starting and finishing times with long working hours. This made it difficult for women to cook.
Women have always worked. What made the difference was the creation of factories, mines and mills with rigid starting and finishing times with long working hours. This made it difficult for women to cook.
Yes.
I am from the Midwest of the United States. And I have done all of that. Chicago is one of the coldest places in the country and when I was younger I worked with horses in rural areas where the wind temp was -30F. Our children were allowed to play on the playground when it was single digits outside.
Again. England is not the only cold place on earth. Barely one of the coldest, actually.
I have. So did many of the women who cooked the food that you celebrate from the past.
Working class and rural women have always worked. They just weren’t always recognised or paid for it.
I think much of the best variety of British cooking is best enjoyed at home – homemade roast potatoes, cottage pie, roast chicken, sherry trifle are all uniquely British and completely delicious. Fish and chips is the “eat-out” exception and unmatched IMHO as an outdoor meal. The British Christmas lunch is a most marvellous collection of beautiful flavours and historic recipes.
In contrast to African or Mexican origins American food, butter and varied cheeses feature strongly in British cuisine. Interestingly – as someone who have travelled the Southern USA quite a bit – I am amazed at the poisonous nature of corner shop/garage snacks and sweets in the USA. In Britain you could get an edible Cornish pasty, a huge range of tasty biscuits and many, morish chocolatey treats in a tiny garage. American gas station snacks are simply vile, greasy, artificial non-foods.
Well, if you need a t*t-for-tat lol…
Ok. You got me with “garage store” snacks, I guess. But if you really needed to bring America into the argument…you go.
Well, if you need a t*t-for-tat lol…
Ok. You got me with “garage store” snacks, I guess. But if you really needed to bring America into the argument…you go.
I enjoyed a Polish bigosh cooked by my neighbour on our campsite here in Portugal. Diners included Germans, French, Dutch and this Paddy.. really nice. Weather was warm and sunny and we ate out of doors.. all lovely!
Have you worked out of doors doing manual labour in winter on a hillside exposed to the bitterly cold winds from north or northeast?
Britain is an island with a climate which is very good good for growing grass and woodlands which meant plenty of cereals, meat, milk, cheese and fish. One needs to study the diet of pre Industrial Britain. Hence Wilkes comment “Beef and liberty “.
I think much of the best variety of British cooking is best enjoyed at home – homemade roast potatoes, cottage pie, roast chicken, sherry trifle are all uniquely British and completely delicious. Fish and chips is the “eat-out” exception and unmatched IMHO as an outdoor meal. The British Christmas lunch is a most marvellous collection of beautiful flavours and historic recipes.
In contrast to African or Mexican origins American food, butter and varied cheeses feature strongly in British cuisine. Interestingly – as someone who have travelled the Southern USA quite a bit – I am amazed at the poisonous nature of corner shop/garage snacks and sweets in the USA. In Britain you could get an edible Cornish pasty, a huge range of tasty biscuits and many, morish chocolatey treats in a tiny garage. American gas station snacks are simply vile, greasy, artificial non-foods.
I enjoyed a Polish bigosh cooked by my neighbour on our campsite here in Portugal. Diners included Germans, French, Dutch and this Paddy.. really nice. Weather was warm and sunny and we ate out of doors.. all lovely!
As a Brit recently living in the American Midwest, I must say how much I miss English home cooking. The food here is abysmal, bland and unimaginative, the “bakery” untouchable. I also miss English pies and the wonderful selection of candy. American candy is the pits. I dream of an English breakfast -eggs, bacon, tomatoes, fresh picked mushrooms, sausage, thick toast with marmalade, all on one plate! Oh, and bubble and squeak. I’m so homesick!!
The best pies I have eaten are in Lancashire , the result of women working in the cotton mills; they used to buy them on the way home.
Pork pies were developed for the hunting field, they fitted in the pockets of the jackets..
Whe it comes to a fry up, the best are on construction sites canteens. Start work at 8am in Winter or 7 am in summer and have breakfast at 9 am. The canteens were usually run by ladies as a separate business to the main contractor. Tea served in half and pint mugs. Lunches are very good quality and portions substantial.
The best pies I have eaten are in Lancashire , the result of women working in the cotton mills; they used to buy them on the way home.
Pork pies were developed for the hunting field, they fitted in the pockets of the jackets..
Whe it comes to a fry up, the best are on construction sites canteens. Start work at 8am in Winter or 7 am in summer and have breakfast at 9 am. The canteens were usually run by ladies as a separate business to the main contractor. Tea served in half and pint mugs. Lunches are very good quality and portions substantial.
I beg your pardon but Britain is not the only cold place on earth and as such, its cuisine still doesn’t make much sense compared to the mouth watering stews and meals of similar climate countries like France, Germany, Poland….no. That argument doesn’t hold much weight.
As a Brit recently living in the American Midwest, I must say how much I miss English home cooking. The food here is abysmal, bland and unimaginative, the “bakery” untouchable. I also miss English pies and the wonderful selection of candy. American candy is the pits. I dream of an English breakfast -eggs, bacon, tomatoes, fresh picked mushrooms, sausage, thick toast with marmalade, all on one plate! Oh, and bubble and squeak. I’m so homesick!!
Last edited 1 year ago by CLARE KNIGHT
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
If one has ever undertaken hard manual labour, out of doors in winter in the sleety rain and wind,live in the north in an old drafty house, traditional British food makes sense. The British navvy breakfasted on beef and beer and could excavate 20T of soil per day in all weathers. The archer could draw up to 200 lb bow 24 times in two minutes and fight a whole day.
If one lives in a modern warm home, work in an office and one eats traditional British food and portions, then one is digging one’s grave with one’s teeth. The Greek diet is a healthier option.
Britain was the first country to send women to work in factories, mills and mines so bought cooked food became more important. We were the first country to beome 50 % urban and by 1900 it was 80%. Canned food became common from the 1870s. People living then squalid slums were cut off from good ingredients and many had inadequate cooking facilities.We also underwent rationing from 1939 to 1953 and then American processed food arrived from the 1960s and fast food from the 1970s.
The decline in food in Britin mirrors our decline as a nation, especially health and fitness.
Good British cooking became an endangered species largely found in the countryside.
Michael W
1 year ago
I can understand Italians being smug about their cuisine but I do find it ridiculous when Americans on the internet mock British food by showing bake beans when their traditional food is just bastardised European food, fast-food and meatloaf, whatever that is. British food is hearty and tasty, can’t beat a good stew or roast. Northern Europeans were limited by the vegetables that they could grow so naturally there is less variety and a greater reliance on subtle flavours in the traditional cuisine.
Not lost yet I hope. Toast and dripping with some of the jellied juiced and sprinkled with salt was an adored treat of my childhood and hopefully still is for those that still cook roasted meat.
Not lost yet I hope. Toast and dripping with some of the jellied juiced and sprinkled with salt was an adored treat of my childhood and hopefully still is for those that still cook roasted meat.
Of course it doesn’t compare – literally. You are talking about spicy food, often chilli hot. Those spices were not available in England, or when they were were very expensive. Flavours in traditional English food are way more subtle because our flavourings are from herbs not spices. if your palate is used to spice then it is difficult to appreciate subtle flavours. Now we have plenty of spicy food available, but from imported cuisines.
We had plenty of high quality fresh meat and fish and cooler climate so did not need spices to hide the decaymor make inredients go further. Out navvies breakfasted on steak and beer.
Hereford cattle came from Hereford in England.
Of course it doesn’t compare – literally. You are talking about spicy food, often chilli hot. Those spices were not available in England, or when they were were very expensive. Flavours in traditional English food are way more subtle because our flavourings are from herbs not spices. if your palate is used to spice then it is difficult to appreciate subtle flavours. Now we have plenty of spicy food available, but from imported cuisines.
We had plenty of high quality fresh meat and fish and cooler climate so did not need spices to hide the decaymor make inredients go further. Out navvies breakfasted on steak and beer.
Hereford cattle came from Hereford in England.
Black American cuisine, Mexican American cuisine….we grew up with that. And when we go to the UK to taste your food…nope. Doesn’t compare.
Michael W
1 year ago
I can understand Italians being smug about their cuisine but I do find it ridiculous when Americans on the internet mock British food by showing bake beans when their traditional food is just bastardised European food, fast-food and meatloaf, whatever that is. British food is hearty and tasty, can’t beat a good stew or roast. Northern Europeans were limited by the vegetables that they could grow so naturally there is less variety and a greater reliance on subtle flavours in the traditional cuisine.
David Lawrence
1 year ago
There is really very little need for any food more exotic than egg and chips.
There is really very little need for any food more exotic than egg and chips.
polidori redux
1 year ago
I was given the Purkiss book as a Christmas present, but haven’t got around to it yet.
I have a soft spot for Waitrose. Some of the offerings on the delicatessen counter are above average, and a go-to for half price hunters like me. As one assistant said, “I hoped you would show up”. I have noticed though that horizons are, sadly, shrinking. The in-house publications are full of, what to my mind, is unintended humour: With just a modest selection of “essential” ingredients, you can rustle up something to which you can attach an exotic nom de guerre.
My recommendation: WMW Fowler’s Countryman’s Cooking. As his widow wistfully put it ” He liked women. Unfortunately, they liked him”. I am glad that someone understood the point of cooking.
polidori redux
1 year ago
I was given the Purkiss book as a Christmas present, but haven’t got around to it yet.
I have a soft spot for Waitrose. Some of the offerings on the delicatessen counter are above average, and a go-to for half price hunters like me. As one assistant said, “I hoped you would show up”. I have noticed though that horizons are, sadly, shrinking. The in-house publications are full of, what to my mind, is unintended humour: With just a modest selection of “essential” ingredients, you can rustle up something to which you can attach an exotic nom de guerre.
My recommendation: WMW Fowler’s Countryman’s Cooking. As his widow wistfully put it ” He liked women. Unfortunately, they liked him”. I am glad that someone understood the point of cooking.
Justine Brian
1 year ago
From Roussinos’ reviews of the two books there sounds little original in the content overview that hasn’t already been written before. The Purkiss sounds like the better bet and I’ll be interested to see if she does have original material.
One of my favourite takes on British food, and why it is as it is – related both to trade and Empire as covered in this piece – is AA Gill’s notion of it emerging from a ‘magpie nation’, which he argued was a positive thing, giving Brits the best of everything.
Ah, the late lamented AA Gill, worth buying a copy of the Sunday Times for his restaurant reviews alone. One his favourite places to dine was actually called “The Magpie”, an ever-so-slightly up-market purveyor of fish and chips on the harbour front at Whitby.
As for the article, i’d not be inclined to read either of those books, or indeed watch any of the multitude of excruciating cooking programmes which infest the TV evening schedules, with their gurning and false attempt at suspense. I’d also take issue with the writer’s description of the UK’s preference for free trade “as if Britain still controls the global seaways”. What utter nonsense.
Gill could be a right snob, but his writing on food was always compelling (I felt).
The Magpie Cafe piece was the last restaurant review he did for The Times, and also the piece where he announced he had cancer and was dying. Incredible piece of writing I felt. And somehow perfect.
On the book reviews – I will likely give the Purkiss one a go to see if there’s anything new in it (hope so, as I keep reading the same ideas and histories over and over again).
I’ve found little to better C.Anne Wilson’s 1973 ‘Food and Drink in Britain’ for historic overview.
Gill could be a right snob, but his writing on food was always compelling (I felt).
The Magpie Cafe piece was the last restaurant review he did for The Times, and also the piece where he announced he had cancer and was dying. Incredible piece of writing I felt. And somehow perfect.
On the book reviews – I will likely give the Purkiss one a go to see if there’s anything new in it (hope so, as I keep reading the same ideas and histories over and over again).
I’ve found little to better C.Anne Wilson’s 1973 ‘Food and Drink in Britain’ for historic overview.
Ah, the late lamented AA Gill, worth buying a copy of the Sunday Times for his restaurant reviews alone. One his favourite places to dine was actually called “The Magpie”, an ever-so-slightly up-market purveyor of fish and chips on the harbour front at Whitby.
As for the article, i’d not be inclined to read either of those books, or indeed watch any of the multitude of excruciating cooking programmes which infest the TV evening schedules, with their gurning and false attempt at suspense. I’d also take issue with the writer’s description of the UK’s preference for free trade “as if Britain still controls the global seaways”. What utter nonsense.
Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Murray
Justine Brian
1 year ago
From Roussinos’ reviews of the two books there sounds little original in the content overview that hasn’t already been written before. The Purkiss sounds like the better bet and I’ll be interested to see if she does have original material.
One of my favourite takes on British food, and why it is as it is – related both to trade and Empire as covered in this piece – is AA Gill’s notion of it emerging from a ‘magpie nation’, which he argued was a positive thing, giving Brits the best of everything.
tom j
1 year ago
Thanks the Dianne Purkiss book sounds interesting. Glad to see you dismiss Chicken Tilkka Masala, what a gruesome new labour moment that was.
tom j
1 year ago
Thanks the Dianne Purkiss book sounds interesting. Glad to see you dismiss Chicken Tilkka Masala, what a gruesome new labour moment that was.
Chris Hume
1 year ago
No doubt unwittingly, she echoes today’s Twitter reactionaries in observing that “the people who knocked down Euston Station and devastated the inner cities have wrecked food creation, avid as they were to have modernity and not much else”
I had no idea my objections to the mid-20th century taste for destroying town centres and rebuilding them in concrete blocks made me a “twitter reactionary.” Tower blocks and miserable grey boxes must be progressive, I suppose.
Chris Hume
1 year ago
No doubt unwittingly, she echoes today’s Twitter reactionaries in observing that “the people who knocked down Euston Station and devastated the inner cities have wrecked food creation, avid as they were to have modernity and not much else”
I had no idea my objections to the mid-20th century taste for destroying town centres and rebuilding them in concrete blocks made me a “twitter reactionary.” Tower blocks and miserable grey boxes must be progressive, I suppose.
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Although turkey is America’s national dish for Thanksgiving, the best I ever had was at a lovely waterside restaurant on the Shropshire Union Canal. Melt-in-your-mouth perfection, accompanied by Yorkshire puddings the size of cantaloupe, I couldn’t believe how fresh and tender the meat was! Then I glanced out the window and saw in the garden several big Toms milling about. Ah . . .
Last edited 1 year ago by Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Although turkey is America’s national dish for Thanksgiving, the best I ever had was at a lovely waterside restaurant on the Shropshire Union Canal. Melt-in-your-mouth perfection, accompanied by Yorkshire puddings the size of cantaloupe, I couldn’t believe how fresh and tender the meat was! Then I glanced out the window and saw in the garden several big Toms milling about. Ah . . .
Last edited 1 year ago by Allison Barrows
mike otter
1 year ago
An enjoyable read at the surface of food politics but its grubby depths are funnier and more illuminating. There are Cheese Freedom Riders (YES IT’S A THING*) who illegally transport cheese starter cultures across US state lines. Are they the successors to the 60s “freedom riders” or the 19th C undergound railroad? OR Libertarian anti-Feds like the Oath Keepers now or W C Quantrill in the civil war. Same can be said for the French Comte dairy farmers who protect their produce with force against the EU? *Wouldn’t normally note a comment on here but it sounds so odd it needs verification. Percival B & F, Bloomsbury 2017 ISBN 978-1-4729-5551-7
mike otter
1 year ago
An enjoyable read at the surface of food politics but its grubby depths are funnier and more illuminating. There are Cheese Freedom Riders (YES IT’S A THING*) who illegally transport cheese starter cultures across US state lines. Are they the successors to the 60s “freedom riders” or the 19th C undergound railroad? OR Libertarian anti-Feds like the Oath Keepers now or W C Quantrill in the civil war. Same can be said for the French Comte dairy farmers who protect their produce with force against the EU? *Wouldn’t normally note a comment on here but it sounds so odd it needs verification. Percival B & F, Bloomsbury 2017 ISBN 978-1-4729-5551-7
Suzanne C.
1 year ago
An irrelevancy but I grew up Syrian Orthodox, and we made Baklava, with pistachios, but pronounced it “bitlawa”. I still make it. It’s not that hard, just time consuming. Worth fighting over.
Suzanne C.
1 year ago
An irrelevancy but I grew up Syrian Orthodox, and we made Baklava, with pistachios, but pronounced it “bitlawa”. I still make it. It’s not that hard, just time consuming. Worth fighting over.
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Did not the French in the 15th century shout “Rosbif” at our gallant lads, whilst they supped on a diet of frogs and snails?
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Did not the French in the 15th century shout “Rosbif” at our gallant lads, whilst they supped on a diet of frogs and snails?
Brendan O'Leary
1 year ago
There are apparently Waitroses in the posh bits of Edinburgh but apart from that I don’t think we have them in Scotland.
They will let you in if you dress appropriately, Brendan. No carpet slippers and onesies.
When I was a student, my girlfriend and I would wander around Harrods. An alert security guard would follow us. Probably thought that we might try and steal a baby polar bear from the exotica section.
In Swaffham, whilst the ” settee leounge” clean car bourgeois go to Waitrose, the landowners go to the bang next door Tesco… this would cause seizure in kent, surrey and East Sussex!!!!
In Swaffham, whilst the ” settee leounge” clean car bourgeois go to Waitrose, the landowners go to the bang next door Tesco… this would cause seizure in kent, surrey and East Sussex!!!!
They will let you in if you dress appropriately, Brendan. No carpet slippers and onesies.
When I was a student, my girlfriend and I would wander around Harrods. An alert security guard would follow us. Probably thought that we might try and steal a baby polar bear from the exotica section.
There are 3 in Glasgow. I mean they’re in Milngavie, Byres Road and Newton Mearns, but that still basically counts.
Brendan O'Leary
1 year ago
There are apparently Waitroses in the posh bits of Edinburgh but apart from that I don’t think we have them in Scotland.
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
An excellent piece! the ironies and contradictions of Britain remain, when it comes to food: we now have arguably the best availability and quality anywhere in the world.
Our chefs are not only superb , but so often come from backgrounds of no cooking culture whatsoever,unlike in Italy and France, yet are more innovative and creative by a country mile!
Whilst people in UK appear to love cooking programmes and their associated books, my experience of brit cooking actual ability is not great, bar a few men whom I know.
We should celebrate our cooks and chefs way more than we do!
James Kirk
1 year ago
Too long a read. Food is just not that interesting.
James Kirk
1 year ago
Too long a read. Food is just not that interesting.
Marissa M
1 year ago
I think Americans judge British food against other European and ethnic food. And yeah…it is sorely lacking. Sorry. But it is. And yes, it is mocked by Americans, especially black and other ethnic groups who declare it is bland and flavorless compared to their cultural cuisine. Black Americans especially deride British food as “white people food” with little to no seasoning…They have a point. I have always found it very bland.
While we have our share of garbage cuisine (god, do we) we also embrace the food of of our South American and Mexican and Asian neighbors. You would be hard pressed to find an American who hasn’t had authentic Mexican food on more than one occasion (and no, not Taco Bell, I mean the good stuff). The most ordered dishes in the US include Pad Thai, burritos of all types, and fish tacos. Most breakfast menus have Chilaquiles or Huevos Rancheros. Cheeseburgers? You bet. But you will find alongside those with cheddar or American cheese, offerings of burgers with eggs on them or veggie burgers with Korean bulgogi flavorings. To those who wish to gorge themselves with vast quantities of red meat and excellent wine, Argentinian beef restaurants are all over.
Italian, French, Spanish cuisine? Oh we bastardized them horribly left and right. But any major city will offer a handful of places with authentic European cuisine, including places like Danish and Polish restaurants. And African cuisine is the new darling of the big cities.
Obviously other countries have this as well, but my point is as far as food goes: Our diversity has made for some wildly tasting offerings.
Now, if you want to talk about what we consider genuine American cuisine? Oh, we have good stuff if you’re lucky enough to get it homemade. Buttermilk fried chicken, ranch dressing, brownies, pecan pie…honestly. Why do you think we’re so fat? lol…it’s good if you can get your momma or grandmother to make it. Unfortunately, most visitors only taste it at a second rate restaurant chain.
Now if you compare any of the above mentioned cuisines and dishes, you have to agree. The Brits, although from the land of Shakespeare and great military maneuvers, are lacking in their cuisine as far as FLAVOR is concerned.
As I have said above, England has herbs not spices, so the food is not comparable to those cuisines majoring on spices, especially ‘hot’ ones. As the other replier Mr Miller notes, there really is not much truly English food available in restaurants. One item we really do better than any other country is cheese; more hard than soft but any decent supermarket, even, has a better range of cheese than any French supermarket I have been to. If you have decent cheese in the USA it’s very well hidden!
You…must be joking!! England has better cheese than France?
Oh, I think not.
And as far as herbs vs. spices….well, English biscuits are filled with spices aren’t they? Ginger, cinnamon, cardamon….but your neighbors, the French, do tend to utilize both herbs and spices in a decisively more advantageous way.
We can’t all be good at everything. Like I said, you’ve got Shakespeare and brilliant military maneuvering, not to mention the Royals, leave the bragging rights for cuisine to others.
You…must be joking!! England has better cheese than France?
Oh, I think not.
And as far as herbs vs. spices….well, English biscuits are filled with spices aren’t they? Ginger, cinnamon, cardamon….but your neighbors, the French, do tend to utilize both herbs and spices in a decisively more advantageous way.
We can’t all be good at everything. Like I said, you’ve got Shakespeare and brilliant military maneuvering, not to mention the Royals, leave the bragging rights for cuisine to others.
My Father used to holiday on a widows farm in Herefordshire in the 1920s and 1930s . On Sunday two joints were roasted, one was eaten on that day; the other remained uncut and was eaten on Monday. The leftovers from the joint eaten on Sunday were fed to the dogs: it was considered unfit to eat cold as only joints which had been uncut were served as cold roast beef. Yet the conditions of Depression hit parts of industrial Britain were appalling as described by Orwell in Road to Wigan Pier. Orwell is very good on discussing British food and comments on the left wing middle class snobbery towards it.
Britain is small island but with varied geology, topography and climate. The pre industrial food based upon high quality and abundant protein, cereals, beer, root vegetables, dairy, hard fruit and soft fruit was debased in urban areas because of the changes I have mentioned but remained in the homes of country people.
Much of the fruit and vegetables which have the best taste and texture do not last. Consequently, modern supermarkets with long storage time requirements demand food which lasts and looks good but lacks taste and texture. An example would be Lord Lambourne apples which taste superb and have good crisp juicy texture but suffer from disease and do not last. The cheeses which Britain produces are largely hard, Cheddar, Stilton and the northern types such Lancashire, Cheshire and Wensleydale. All of them quite superb at their best but easily debased by modern supermarket demands.
When it comes to quality, rearing of animals is vital. Pigs allowed to forage for acorns and beech nuts( pannage )produce deep rich flavoured meat.
In summary, industrialisation, war and American ready meals/fast food debased British cooking and one needs to be skilled country people know what food used to be like.
My Father used to holiday on a widows farm in Herefordshire in the 1920s and 1930s . On Sunday two joints were roasted, one was eaten on that day; the other remained uncut and was eaten on Monday. The leftovers from the joint eaten on Sunday were fed to the dogs: it was considered unfit to eat cold as only joints which had been uncut were served as cold roast beef. Yet the conditions of Depression hit parts of industrial Britain were appalling as described by Orwell in Road to Wigan Pier. Orwell is very good on discussing British food and comments on the left wing middle class snobbery towards it.
Britain is small island but with varied geology, topography and climate. The pre industrial food based upon high quality and abundant protein, cereals, beer, root vegetables, dairy, hard fruit and soft fruit was debased in urban areas because of the changes I have mentioned but remained in the homes of country people.
Much of the fruit and vegetables which have the best taste and texture do not last. Consequently, modern supermarkets with long storage time requirements demand food which lasts and looks good but lacks taste and texture. An example would be Lord Lambourne apples which taste superb and have good crisp juicy texture but suffer from disease and do not last. The cheeses which Britain produces are largely hard, Cheddar, Stilton and the northern types such Lancashire, Cheshire and Wensleydale. All of them quite superb at their best but easily debased by modern supermarket demands.
When it comes to quality, rearing of animals is vital. Pigs allowed to forage for acorns and beech nuts( pannage )produce deep rich flavoured meat.
In summary, industrialisation, war and American ready meals/fast food debased British cooking and one needs to be skilled country people know what food used to be like.
I think you are comparing the best of a whole world of cuisines imported into the USA with 1 native cuisine from 1 small, northern climate island. We have our share of international restaurants/ fast food including a great tradition of Indian curry houses.
One of my favourite parts of British cooking is still “proper” cake (and puddings) made with pure, simple ingredients – butter, flour, eggs, sugar, fruit as a Victoria sponge, Dundee cake or rhubarb crumble with custard. Unmatched by over fussy, formal European offerings or “look better than they taste” American layer cakes.
To each their own. Meh. I wasn’t a fan of English desserts or cuisine. The Germans do a far better rhubarb dessert and I certainly wouldn’t choose a Victoria Sponge over the sheer (and proper) delicacy of an Austrian Apricot Linzer Tort! Or a plate of homemade brownies, for that matter. No, I think the rest of the world is correct when they talk about English food. It is sorely lacking. We can’t all be good at everything.
To each their own. Meh. I wasn’t a fan of English desserts or cuisine. The Germans do a far better rhubarb dessert and I certainly wouldn’t choose a Victoria Sponge over the sheer (and proper) delicacy of an Austrian Apricot Linzer Tort! Or a plate of homemade brownies, for that matter. No, I think the rest of the world is correct when they talk about English food. It is sorely lacking. We can’t all be good at everything.
As I have said above, England has herbs not spices, so the food is not comparable to those cuisines majoring on spices, especially ‘hot’ ones. As the other replier Mr Miller notes, there really is not much truly English food available in restaurants. One item we really do better than any other country is cheese; more hard than soft but any decent supermarket, even, has a better range of cheese than any French supermarket I have been to. If you have decent cheese in the USA it’s very well hidden!
I think you are comparing the best of a whole world of cuisines imported into the USA with 1 native cuisine from 1 small, northern climate island. We have our share of international restaurants/ fast food including a great tradition of Indian curry houses.
One of my favourite parts of British cooking is still “proper” cake (and puddings) made with pure, simple ingredients – butter, flour, eggs, sugar, fruit as a Victoria sponge, Dundee cake or rhubarb crumble with custard. Unmatched by over fussy, formal European offerings or “look better than they taste” American layer cakes.
Last edited 1 year ago by Su Mac
Marissa M
1 year ago
I think Americans judge British food against other European and ethnic food. And yeah…it is sorely lacking. Sorry. But it is. And yes, it is mocked by Americans, especially black and other ethnic groups who declare it is bland and flavorless compared to their cultural cuisine. Black Americans especially deride British food as “white people food” with little to no seasoning…They have a point. I have always found it very bland.
While we have our share of garbage cuisine (god, do we) we also embrace the food of of our South American and Mexican and Asian neighbors. You would be hard pressed to find an American who hasn’t had authentic Mexican food on more than one occasion (and no, not Taco Bell, I mean the good stuff). The most ordered dishes in the US include Pad Thai, burritos of all types, and fish tacos. Most breakfast menus have Chilaquiles or Huevos Rancheros. Cheeseburgers? You bet. But you will find alongside those with cheddar or American cheese, offerings of burgers with eggs on them or veggie burgers with Korean bulgogi flavorings. To those who wish to gorge themselves with vast quantities of red meat and excellent wine, Argentinian beef restaurants are all over.
Italian, French, Spanish cuisine? Oh we bastardized them horribly left and right. But any major city will offer a handful of places with authentic European cuisine, including places like Danish and Polish restaurants. And African cuisine is the new darling of the big cities.
Obviously other countries have this as well, but my point is as far as food goes: Our diversity has made for some wildly tasting offerings.
Now, if you want to talk about what we consider genuine American cuisine? Oh, we have good stuff if you’re lucky enough to get it homemade. Buttermilk fried chicken, ranch dressing, brownies, pecan pie…honestly. Why do you think we’re so fat? lol…it’s good if you can get your momma or grandmother to make it. Unfortunately, most visitors only taste it at a second rate restaurant chain.
Now if you compare any of the above mentioned cuisines and dishes, you have to agree. The Brits, although from the land of Shakespeare and great military maneuvers, are lacking in their cuisine as far as FLAVOR is concerned.
If one has ever undertaken hard manual labour, out of doors in winter in the sleety rain and wind,live in the north in an old drafty house, traditional British food makes sense. The British navvy breakfasted on beef and beer and could excavate 20T of soil per day in all weathers. The archer could draw up to 200 lb bow 24 times in two minutes and fight a whole day.
If one lives in a modern warm home, work in an office and one eats traditional British food and portions, then one is digging one’s grave with one’s teeth. The Greek diet is a healthier option.
Britain was the first country to send women to work in factories, mills and mines so bought cooked food became more important. We were the first country to beome 50 % urban and by 1900 it was 80%. Canned food became common from the 1870s. People living then squalid slums were cut off from good ingredients and many had inadequate cooking facilities.We also underwent rationing from 1939 to 1953 and then American processed food arrived from the 1960s and fast food from the 1970s.
The decline in food in Britin mirrors our decline as a nation, especially health and fitness.
Good British cooking became an endangered species largely found in the countryside.
Another reason I like heating low and live crisp cold weather. The food is so much better. I made a steamed sponge treacle pudding Sunday. Oh God.
Seconded! Can’t beat a sunny, frosty winter morning. Nor a treacle sponge, come to that.
When I was a child, my grandfather and I delighted in sharing both – the sponge usually following my grandmother’s generous Yorkshire luncheon, the whole being preceded by a winter’s morning walk on the Westwood (Beverley’s town common). Funny how a simple pudding can be so evocative. Thank you for sparking the memory!
Seconded! Can’t beat a sunny, frosty winter morning. Nor a treacle sponge, come to that.
When I was a child, my grandfather and I delighted in sharing both – the sponge usually following my grandmother’s generous Yorkshire luncheon, the whole being preceded by a winter’s morning walk on the Westwood (Beverley’s town common). Funny how a simple pudding can be so evocative. Thank you for sparking the memory!
Digging one’s grave with one’s teeth. Good, there are too many ill old fat people as the world becomes ever more crowded.
You are correct! I know.
I’m 73 and overweight.. far too many of us.
You are correct! I know.
I’m 73 and overweight.. far too many of us.
I beg your pardon but Britain is not the only cold place on earth and as such, its cuisine still doesn’t make much sense compared to the mouth watering stews and meals of similar climate countries like France, Germany, Poland….no. That argument doesn’t hold much weight.
Have you worked out of doors doing manual labour in winter on a hillside exposed to the bitterly cold winds from north or northeast?
Britain is an island with a climate which is very good good for growing grass and woodlands which meant plenty of cereals, meat, milk, cheese and fish. One needs to study the diet of pre Industrial Britain. Hence Wilkes comment “Beef and liberty “.
Yes.
I am from the Midwest of the United States. And I have done all of that. Chicago is one of the coldest places in the country and when I was younger I worked with horses in rural areas where the wind temp was -30F. Our children were allowed to play on the playground when it was single digits outside.
Again. England is not the only cold place on earth. Barely one of the coldest, actually.
It is calories burnt and strength needed. Strength requires high protein diet. The steak and beer diet of the navvy enabled them to shift 20 T of soil or rock in a day in all weathers. A sailor in the Royal Navy in days of sail consumed about 4500 calories and those exploring at the poles and undertaking mountain/arctic warfare are on about 8000 calories. In addition they were not wearing modern clothing so surface of body would be wet from sweat and rain and hence evaporation of water would burn up calories.
It is the combination wind and rain/sleet especially when not wearing water proof clothing which induces hypothermia even at temperatures as high 10 C, hence people getting into trouble in summer in places such as Brecon Beacons, Dartmoor, Lake District.
The Innuit have a very high calorific diet.
It’s not the cold, it’s the combination of cold and wet that makes the difference. Ask any soldier who has trained in winter in Wales, Dartmoor or Scotland!
It is calories burnt and strength needed. Strength requires high protein diet. The steak and beer diet of the navvy enabled them to shift 20 T of soil or rock in a day in all weathers. A sailor in the Royal Navy in days of sail consumed about 4500 calories and those exploring at the poles and undertaking mountain/arctic warfare are on about 8000 calories. In addition they were not wearing modern clothing so surface of body would be wet from sweat and rain and hence evaporation of water would burn up calories.
It is the combination wind and rain/sleet especially when not wearing water proof clothing which induces hypothermia even at temperatures as high 10 C, hence people getting into trouble in summer in places such as Brecon Beacons, Dartmoor, Lake District.
The Innuit have a very high calorific diet.
It’s not the cold, it’s the combination of cold and wet that makes the difference. Ask any soldier who has trained in winter in Wales, Dartmoor or Scotland!
I have. So did many of the women who cooked the food that you celebrate from the past.
Working class and rural women have always worked. They just weren’t always recognised or paid for it.
Women have always worked. What made the difference was the creation of factories, mines and mills with rigid starting and finishing times with long working hours. This made it difficult for women to cook.
Women have always worked. What made the difference was the creation of factories, mines and mills with rigid starting and finishing times with long working hours. This made it difficult for women to cook.
Yes.
I am from the Midwest of the United States. And I have done all of that. Chicago is one of the coldest places in the country and when I was younger I worked with horses in rural areas where the wind temp was -30F. Our children were allowed to play on the playground when it was single digits outside.
Again. England is not the only cold place on earth. Barely one of the coldest, actually.
I have. So did many of the women who cooked the food that you celebrate from the past.
Working class and rural women have always worked. They just weren’t always recognised or paid for it.
Availability, and choice is far better than those countries, as is our restaurant and pub food
I think much of the best variety of British cooking is best enjoyed at home – homemade roast potatoes, cottage pie, roast chicken, sherry trifle are all uniquely British and completely delicious. Fish and chips is the “eat-out” exception and unmatched IMHO as an outdoor meal. The British Christmas lunch is a most marvellous collection of beautiful flavours and historic recipes.
In contrast to African or Mexican origins American food, butter and varied cheeses feature strongly in British cuisine. Interestingly – as someone who have travelled the Southern USA quite a bit – I am amazed at the poisonous nature of corner shop/garage snacks and sweets in the USA. In Britain you could get an edible Cornish pasty, a huge range of tasty biscuits and many, morish chocolatey treats in a tiny garage. American gas station snacks are simply vile, greasy, artificial non-foods.
Well, if you need a t*t-for-tat lol…
Ok. You got me with “garage store” snacks, I guess. But if you really needed to bring America into the argument…you go.
Well, if you need a t*t-for-tat lol…
Ok. You got me with “garage store” snacks, I guess. But if you really needed to bring America into the argument…you go.
I enjoyed a Polish bigosh cooked by my neighbour on our campsite here in Portugal. Diners included Germans, French, Dutch and this Paddy.. really nice. Weather was warm and sunny and we ate out of doors.. all lovely!
Have you worked out of doors doing manual labour in winter on a hillside exposed to the bitterly cold winds from north or northeast?
Britain is an island with a climate which is very good good for growing grass and woodlands which meant plenty of cereals, meat, milk, cheese and fish. One needs to study the diet of pre Industrial Britain. Hence Wilkes comment “Beef and liberty “.
Availability, and choice is far better than those countries, as is our restaurant and pub food
I think much of the best variety of British cooking is best enjoyed at home – homemade roast potatoes, cottage pie, roast chicken, sherry trifle are all uniquely British and completely delicious. Fish and chips is the “eat-out” exception and unmatched IMHO as an outdoor meal. The British Christmas lunch is a most marvellous collection of beautiful flavours and historic recipes.
In contrast to African or Mexican origins American food, butter and varied cheeses feature strongly in British cuisine. Interestingly – as someone who have travelled the Southern USA quite a bit – I am amazed at the poisonous nature of corner shop/garage snacks and sweets in the USA. In Britain you could get an edible Cornish pasty, a huge range of tasty biscuits and many, morish chocolatey treats in a tiny garage. American gas station snacks are simply vile, greasy, artificial non-foods.
I enjoyed a Polish bigosh cooked by my neighbour on our campsite here in Portugal. Diners included Germans, French, Dutch and this Paddy.. really nice. Weather was warm and sunny and we ate out of doors.. all lovely!
As a Brit recently living in the American Midwest, I must say how much I miss English home cooking. The food here is abysmal, bland and unimaginative, the “bakery” untouchable. I also miss English pies and the wonderful selection of candy. American candy is the pits. I dream of an English breakfast -eggs, bacon, tomatoes, fresh picked mushrooms, sausage, thick toast with marmalade, all on one plate! Oh, and bubble and squeak. I’m so homesick!!
The best pies I have eaten are in Lancashire , the result of women working in the cotton mills; they used to buy them on the way home.
Pork pies were developed for the hunting field, they fitted in the pockets of the jackets..
Whe it comes to a fry up, the best are on construction sites canteens. Start work at 8am in Winter or 7 am in summer and have breakfast at 9 am. The canteens were usually run by ladies as a separate business to the main contractor. Tea served in half and pint mugs. Lunches are very good quality and portions substantial.
The best pies I have eaten are in Lancashire , the result of women working in the cotton mills; they used to buy them on the way home.
Pork pies were developed for the hunting field, they fitted in the pockets of the jackets..
Whe it comes to a fry up, the best are on construction sites canteens. Start work at 8am in Winter or 7 am in summer and have breakfast at 9 am. The canteens were usually run by ladies as a separate business to the main contractor. Tea served in half and pint mugs. Lunches are very good quality and portions substantial.
Another reason I like heating low and live crisp cold weather. The food is so much better. I made a steamed sponge treacle pudding Sunday. Oh God.
Digging one’s grave with one’s teeth. Good, there are too many ill old fat people as the world becomes ever more crowded.
I beg your pardon but Britain is not the only cold place on earth and as such, its cuisine still doesn’t make much sense compared to the mouth watering stews and meals of similar climate countries like France, Germany, Poland….no. That argument doesn’t hold much weight.
As a Brit recently living in the American Midwest, I must say how much I miss English home cooking. The food here is abysmal, bland and unimaginative, the “bakery” untouchable. I also miss English pies and the wonderful selection of candy. American candy is the pits. I dream of an English breakfast -eggs, bacon, tomatoes, fresh picked mushrooms, sausage, thick toast with marmalade, all on one plate! Oh, and bubble and squeak. I’m so homesick!!
If one has ever undertaken hard manual labour, out of doors in winter in the sleety rain and wind,live in the north in an old drafty house, traditional British food makes sense. The British navvy breakfasted on beef and beer and could excavate 20T of soil per day in all weathers. The archer could draw up to 200 lb bow 24 times in two minutes and fight a whole day.
If one lives in a modern warm home, work in an office and one eats traditional British food and portions, then one is digging one’s grave with one’s teeth. The Greek diet is a healthier option.
Britain was the first country to send women to work in factories, mills and mines so bought cooked food became more important. We were the first country to beome 50 % urban and by 1900 it was 80%. Canned food became common from the 1870s. People living then squalid slums were cut off from good ingredients and many had inadequate cooking facilities.We also underwent rationing from 1939 to 1953 and then American processed food arrived from the 1960s and fast food from the 1970s.
The decline in food in Britin mirrors our decline as a nation, especially health and fitness.
Good British cooking became an endangered species largely found in the countryside.
I can understand Italians being smug about their cuisine but I do find it ridiculous when Americans on the internet mock British food by showing bake beans when their traditional food is just bastardised European food, fast-food and meatloaf, whatever that is. British food is hearty and tasty, can’t beat a good stew or roast. Northern Europeans were limited by the vegetables that they could grow so naturally there is less variety and a greater reliance on subtle flavours in the traditional cuisine.
I am sure hush puppy and dripping has a British equivalent but it got lost in the mists of time
Not lost yet I hope. Toast and dripping with some of the jellied juiced and sprinkled with salt was an adored treat of my childhood and hopefully still is for those that still cook roasted meat.
Not lost yet I hope. Toast and dripping with some of the jellied juiced and sprinkled with salt was an adored treat of my childhood and hopefully still is for those that still cook roasted meat.
Black American cuisine, Mexican American cuisine….we grew up with that. And when we go to the UK to taste your food…nope. Doesn’t compare.
Of course it doesn’t compare – literally. You are talking about spicy food, often chilli hot. Those spices were not available in England, or when they were were very expensive. Flavours in traditional English food are way more subtle because our flavourings are from herbs not spices. if your palate is used to spice then it is difficult to appreciate subtle flavours. Now we have plenty of spicy food available, but from imported cuisines.
Ah but have you experienced English home cooking? I think not.
one must laugh in pity
We had plenty of high quality fresh meat and fish and cooler climate so did not need spices to hide the decaymor make inredients go further. Out navvies breakfasted on steak and beer.
Hereford cattle came from Hereford in England.
Of course it doesn’t compare – literally. You are talking about spicy food, often chilli hot. Those spices were not available in England, or when they were were very expensive. Flavours in traditional English food are way more subtle because our flavourings are from herbs not spices. if your palate is used to spice then it is difficult to appreciate subtle flavours. Now we have plenty of spicy food available, but from imported cuisines.
Ah but have you experienced English home cooking? I think not.
one must laugh in pity
We had plenty of high quality fresh meat and fish and cooler climate so did not need spices to hide the decaymor make inredients go further. Out navvies breakfasted on steak and beer.
Hereford cattle came from Hereford in England.
I am sure hush puppy and dripping has a British equivalent but it got lost in the mists of time
Black American cuisine, Mexican American cuisine….we grew up with that. And when we go to the UK to taste your food…nope. Doesn’t compare.
I can understand Italians being smug about their cuisine but I do find it ridiculous when Americans on the internet mock British food by showing bake beans when their traditional food is just bastardised European food, fast-food and meatloaf, whatever that is. British food is hearty and tasty, can’t beat a good stew or roast. Northern Europeans were limited by the vegetables that they could grow so naturally there is less variety and a greater reliance on subtle flavours in the traditional cuisine.
There is really very little need for any food more exotic than egg and chips.
Spoken like a true Englishman!
Unless you are English you won’t have encountered real egg and chips.
Exactly!
French fries and eggs?
Well, I suppose if you want that as your claim to European cuisine fame….
Exactly!
French fries and eggs?
Well, I suppose if you want that as your claim to European cuisine fame….
Unless you are English you won’t have encountered real egg and chips.
Except for fish and chips!
Spoken like a true Englishman!
Except for fish and chips!
There is really very little need for any food more exotic than egg and chips.
I was given the Purkiss book as a Christmas present, but haven’t got around to it yet.
I have a soft spot for Waitrose. Some of the offerings on the delicatessen counter are above average, and a go-to for half price hunters like me. As one assistant said, “I hoped you would show up”. I have noticed though that horizons are, sadly, shrinking. The in-house publications are full of, what to my mind, is unintended humour: With just a modest selection of “essential” ingredients, you can rustle up something to which you can attach an exotic nom de guerre.
My recommendation: WMW Fowler’s Countryman’s Cooking. As his widow wistfully put it ” He liked women. Unfortunately, they liked him”. I am glad that someone understood the point of cooking.
I was given the Purkiss book as a Christmas present, but haven’t got around to it yet.
I have a soft spot for Waitrose. Some of the offerings on the delicatessen counter are above average, and a go-to for half price hunters like me. As one assistant said, “I hoped you would show up”. I have noticed though that horizons are, sadly, shrinking. The in-house publications are full of, what to my mind, is unintended humour: With just a modest selection of “essential” ingredients, you can rustle up something to which you can attach an exotic nom de guerre.
My recommendation: WMW Fowler’s Countryman’s Cooking. As his widow wistfully put it ” He liked women. Unfortunately, they liked him”. I am glad that someone understood the point of cooking.
From Roussinos’ reviews of the two books there sounds little original in the content overview that hasn’t already been written before. The Purkiss sounds like the better bet and I’ll be interested to see if she does have original material.
One of my favourite takes on British food, and why it is as it is – related both to trade and Empire as covered in this piece – is AA Gill’s notion of it emerging from a ‘magpie nation’, which he argued was a positive thing, giving Brits the best of everything.
Ah, the late lamented AA Gill, worth buying a copy of the Sunday Times for his restaurant reviews alone. One his favourite places to dine was actually called “The Magpie”, an ever-so-slightly up-market purveyor of fish and chips on the harbour front at Whitby.
As for the article, i’d not be inclined to read either of those books, or indeed watch any of the multitude of excruciating cooking programmes which infest the TV evening schedules, with their gurning and false attempt at suspense. I’d also take issue with the writer’s description of the UK’s preference for free trade “as if Britain still controls the global seaways”. What utter nonsense.
Gill could be a right snob, but his writing on food was always compelling (I felt).
The Magpie Cafe piece was the last restaurant review he did for The Times, and also the piece where he announced he had cancer and was dying. Incredible piece of writing I felt. And somehow perfect.
On the book reviews – I will likely give the Purkiss one a go to see if there’s anything new in it (hope so, as I keep reading the same ideas and histories over and over again).
I’ve found little to better C.Anne Wilson’s 1973 ‘Food and Drink in Britain’ for historic overview.
Gill could be a right snob, but his writing on food was always compelling (I felt).
The Magpie Cafe piece was the last restaurant review he did for The Times, and also the piece where he announced he had cancer and was dying. Incredible piece of writing I felt. And somehow perfect.
On the book reviews – I will likely give the Purkiss one a go to see if there’s anything new in it (hope so, as I keep reading the same ideas and histories over and over again).
I’ve found little to better C.Anne Wilson’s 1973 ‘Food and Drink in Britain’ for historic overview.
Ah, the late lamented AA Gill, worth buying a copy of the Sunday Times for his restaurant reviews alone. One his favourite places to dine was actually called “The Magpie”, an ever-so-slightly up-market purveyor of fish and chips on the harbour front at Whitby.
As for the article, i’d not be inclined to read either of those books, or indeed watch any of the multitude of excruciating cooking programmes which infest the TV evening schedules, with their gurning and false attempt at suspense. I’d also take issue with the writer’s description of the UK’s preference for free trade “as if Britain still controls the global seaways”. What utter nonsense.
From Roussinos’ reviews of the two books there sounds little original in the content overview that hasn’t already been written before. The Purkiss sounds like the better bet and I’ll be interested to see if she does have original material.
One of my favourite takes on British food, and why it is as it is – related both to trade and Empire as covered in this piece – is AA Gill’s notion of it emerging from a ‘magpie nation’, which he argued was a positive thing, giving Brits the best of everything.
Thanks the Dianne Purkiss book sounds interesting. Glad to see you dismiss Chicken Tilkka Masala, what a gruesome new labour moment that was.
Thanks the Dianne Purkiss book sounds interesting. Glad to see you dismiss Chicken Tilkka Masala, what a gruesome new labour moment that was.
I had no idea my objections to the mid-20th century taste for destroying town centres and rebuilding them in concrete blocks made me a “twitter reactionary.” Tower blocks and miserable grey boxes must be progressive, I suppose.
I had no idea my objections to the mid-20th century taste for destroying town centres and rebuilding them in concrete blocks made me a “twitter reactionary.” Tower blocks and miserable grey boxes must be progressive, I suppose.
Although turkey is America’s national dish for Thanksgiving, the best I ever had was at a lovely waterside restaurant on the Shropshire Union Canal. Melt-in-your-mouth perfection, accompanied by Yorkshire puddings the size of cantaloupe, I couldn’t believe how fresh and tender the meat was! Then I glanced out the window and saw in the garden several big Toms milling about. Ah . . .
Although turkey is America’s national dish for Thanksgiving, the best I ever had was at a lovely waterside restaurant on the Shropshire Union Canal. Melt-in-your-mouth perfection, accompanied by Yorkshire puddings the size of cantaloupe, I couldn’t believe how fresh and tender the meat was! Then I glanced out the window and saw in the garden several big Toms milling about. Ah . . .
An enjoyable read at the surface of food politics but its grubby depths are funnier and more illuminating. There are Cheese Freedom Riders (YES IT’S A THING*) who illegally transport cheese starter cultures across US state lines. Are they the successors to the 60s “freedom riders” or the 19th C undergound railroad? OR Libertarian anti-Feds like the Oath Keepers now or W C Quantrill in the civil war. Same can be said for the French Comte dairy farmers who protect their produce with force against the EU? *Wouldn’t normally note a comment on here but it sounds so odd it needs verification. Percival B & F, Bloomsbury 2017 ISBN 978-1-4729-5551-7
An enjoyable read at the surface of food politics but its grubby depths are funnier and more illuminating. There are Cheese Freedom Riders (YES IT’S A THING*) who illegally transport cheese starter cultures across US state lines. Are they the successors to the 60s “freedom riders” or the 19th C undergound railroad? OR Libertarian anti-Feds like the Oath Keepers now or W C Quantrill in the civil war. Same can be said for the French Comte dairy farmers who protect their produce with force against the EU? *Wouldn’t normally note a comment on here but it sounds so odd it needs verification. Percival B & F, Bloomsbury 2017 ISBN 978-1-4729-5551-7
An irrelevancy but I grew up Syrian Orthodox, and we made Baklava, with pistachios, but pronounced it “bitlawa”. I still make it. It’s not that hard, just time consuming. Worth fighting over.
An irrelevancy but I grew up Syrian Orthodox, and we made Baklava, with pistachios, but pronounced it “bitlawa”. I still make it. It’s not that hard, just time consuming. Worth fighting over.
Did not the French in the 15th century shout “Rosbif” at our gallant lads, whilst they supped on a diet of frogs and snails?
Did not the French in the 15th century shout “Rosbif” at our gallant lads, whilst they supped on a diet of frogs and snails?
There are apparently Waitroses in the posh bits of Edinburgh but apart from that I don’t think we have them in Scotland.
They will let you in if you dress appropriately, Brendan. No carpet slippers and onesies.
When I was a student, my girlfriend and I would wander around Harrods. An alert security guard would follow us. Probably thought that we might try and steal a baby polar bear from the exotica section.
Onesies? You mean my silver shell-suit is now passé?
Mine is restricted to indoor use only. Fashion is remorseless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eej3_Zn8bD8
Mine is restricted to indoor use only. Fashion is remorseless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eej3_Zn8bD8
Onesies? You mean my silver shell-suit is now passé?
There used to be one in Sterling.
If it was sterling, probably got rid of by the SNP
In Swaffham, whilst the ” settee leounge” clean car bourgeois go to Waitrose, the landowners go to the bang next door Tesco… this would cause seizure in kent, surrey and East Sussex!!!!
If it was sterling, probably got rid of by the SNP
In Swaffham, whilst the ” settee leounge” clean car bourgeois go to Waitrose, the landowners go to the bang next door Tesco… this would cause seizure in kent, surrey and East Sussex!!!!
There are 3 in Glasgow. I mean they’re in Milngavie, Byres Road and Newton Mearns, but that still basically counts.
I have selective blindness with Byres Rd – I only see the bars and restaurants.
a better sort of chib razor and Rangers scarf available?
I have selective blindness with Byres Rd – I only see the bars and restaurants.
a better sort of chib razor and Rangers scarf available?
They will let you in if you dress appropriately, Brendan. No carpet slippers and onesies.
When I was a student, my girlfriend and I would wander around Harrods. An alert security guard would follow us. Probably thought that we might try and steal a baby polar bear from the exotica section.
There used to be one in Sterling.
There are 3 in Glasgow. I mean they’re in Milngavie, Byres Road and Newton Mearns, but that still basically counts.
There are apparently Waitroses in the posh bits of Edinburgh but apart from that I don’t think we have them in Scotland.
An excellent piece! the ironies and contradictions of Britain remain, when it comes to food: we now have arguably the best availability and quality anywhere in the world.
Our chefs are not only superb , but so often come from backgrounds of no cooking culture whatsoever,unlike in Italy and France, yet are more innovative and creative by a country mile!
Whilst people in UK appear to love cooking programmes and their associated books, my experience of brit cooking actual ability is not great, bar a few men whom I know.
We should celebrate our cooks and chefs way more than we do!
Too long a read. Food is just not that interesting.
Too long a read. Food is just not that interesting.
I think Americans judge British food against other European and ethnic food. And yeah…it is sorely lacking. Sorry. But it is. And yes, it is mocked by Americans, especially black and other ethnic groups who declare it is bland and flavorless compared to their cultural cuisine. Black Americans especially deride British food as “white people food” with little to no seasoning…They have a point. I have always found it very bland.
While we have our share of garbage cuisine (god, do we) we also embrace the food of of our South American and Mexican and Asian neighbors. You would be hard pressed to find an American who hasn’t had authentic Mexican food on more than one occasion (and no, not Taco Bell, I mean the good stuff). The most ordered dishes in the US include Pad Thai, burritos of all types, and fish tacos. Most breakfast menus have Chilaquiles or Huevos Rancheros. Cheeseburgers? You bet. But you will find alongside those with cheddar or American cheese, offerings of burgers with eggs on them or veggie burgers with Korean bulgogi flavorings. To those who wish to gorge themselves with vast quantities of red meat and excellent wine, Argentinian beef restaurants are all over.
Italian, French, Spanish cuisine? Oh we bastardized them horribly left and right. But any major city will offer a handful of places with authentic European cuisine, including places like Danish and Polish restaurants. And African cuisine is the new darling of the big cities.
Obviously other countries have this as well, but my point is as far as food goes: Our diversity has made for some wildly tasting offerings.
Now, if you want to talk about what we consider genuine American cuisine? Oh, we have good stuff if you’re lucky enough to get it homemade. Buttermilk fried chicken, ranch dressing, brownies, pecan pie…honestly. Why do you think we’re so fat? lol…it’s good if you can get your momma or grandmother to make it. Unfortunately, most visitors only taste it at a second rate restaurant chain.
Now if you compare any of the above mentioned cuisines and dishes, you have to agree. The Brits, although from the land of Shakespeare and great military maneuvers, are lacking in their cuisine as far as FLAVOR is concerned.
.
As I have said above, England has herbs not spices, so the food is not comparable to those cuisines majoring on spices, especially ‘hot’ ones. As the other replier Mr Miller notes, there really is not much truly English food available in restaurants. One item we really do better than any other country is cheese; more hard than soft but any decent supermarket, even, has a better range of cheese than any French supermarket I have been to. If you have decent cheese in the USA it’s very well hidden!
You…must be joking!! England has better cheese than France?
Oh, I think not.
And as far as herbs vs. spices….well, English biscuits are filled with spices aren’t they? Ginger, cinnamon, cardamon….but your neighbors, the French, do tend to utilize both herbs and spices in a decisively more advantageous way.
We can’t all be good at everything. Like I said, you’ve got Shakespeare and brilliant military maneuvering, not to mention the Royals, leave the bragging rights for cuisine to others.
And I am afraid Mr. Miller deleted his comment. It is even better hidden than American cheeses, apparently….
You…must be joking!! England has better cheese than France?
Oh, I think not.
And as far as herbs vs. spices….well, English biscuits are filled with spices aren’t they? Ginger, cinnamon, cardamon….but your neighbors, the French, do tend to utilize both herbs and spices in a decisively more advantageous way.
We can’t all be good at everything. Like I said, you’ve got Shakespeare and brilliant military maneuvering, not to mention the Royals, leave the bragging rights for cuisine to others.
And I am afraid Mr. Miller deleted his comment. It is even better hidden than American cheeses, apparently….
ms woke… yawn…
Is that the real British wit on display? A worthy foe!
I would have thought you could do better than that.
My Father used to holiday on a widows farm in Herefordshire in the 1920s and 1930s . On Sunday two joints were roasted, one was eaten on that day; the other remained uncut and was eaten on Monday. The leftovers from the joint eaten on Sunday were fed to the dogs: it was considered unfit to eat cold as only joints which had been uncut were served as cold roast beef. Yet the conditions of Depression hit parts of industrial Britain were appalling as described by Orwell in Road to Wigan Pier. Orwell is very good on discussing British food and comments on the left wing middle class snobbery towards it.
Britain is small island but with varied geology, topography and climate. The pre industrial food based upon high quality and abundant protein, cereals, beer, root vegetables, dairy, hard fruit and soft fruit was debased in urban areas because of the changes I have mentioned but remained in the homes of country people.
Much of the fruit and vegetables which have the best taste and texture do not last. Consequently, modern supermarkets with long storage time requirements demand food which lasts and looks good but lacks taste and texture. An example would be Lord Lambourne apples which taste superb and have good crisp juicy texture but suffer from disease and do not last. The cheeses which Britain produces are largely hard, Cheddar, Stilton and the northern types such Lancashire, Cheshire and Wensleydale. All of them quite superb at their best but easily debased by modern supermarket demands.
When it comes to quality, rearing of animals is vital. Pigs allowed to forage for acorns and beech nuts( pannage )produce deep rich flavoured meat.
In summary, industrialisation, war and American ready meals/fast food debased British cooking and one needs to be skilled country people know what food used to be like.
My Father used to holiday on a widows farm in Herefordshire in the 1920s and 1930s . On Sunday two joints were roasted, one was eaten on that day; the other remained uncut and was eaten on Monday. The leftovers from the joint eaten on Sunday were fed to the dogs: it was considered unfit to eat cold as only joints which had been uncut were served as cold roast beef. Yet the conditions of Depression hit parts of industrial Britain were appalling as described by Orwell in Road to Wigan Pier. Orwell is very good on discussing British food and comments on the left wing middle class snobbery towards it.
Britain is small island but with varied geology, topography and climate. The pre industrial food based upon high quality and abundant protein, cereals, beer, root vegetables, dairy, hard fruit and soft fruit was debased in urban areas because of the changes I have mentioned but remained in the homes of country people.
Much of the fruit and vegetables which have the best taste and texture do not last. Consequently, modern supermarkets with long storage time requirements demand food which lasts and looks good but lacks taste and texture. An example would be Lord Lambourne apples which taste superb and have good crisp juicy texture but suffer from disease and do not last. The cheeses which Britain produces are largely hard, Cheddar, Stilton and the northern types such Lancashire, Cheshire and Wensleydale. All of them quite superb at their best but easily debased by modern supermarket demands.
When it comes to quality, rearing of animals is vital. Pigs allowed to forage for acorns and beech nuts( pannage )produce deep rich flavoured meat.
In summary, industrialisation, war and American ready meals/fast food debased British cooking and one needs to be skilled country people know what food used to be like.
Is that the real British wit on display? A worthy foe!
I would have thought you could do better than that.
I think you are comparing the best of a whole world of cuisines imported into the USA with 1 native cuisine from 1 small, northern climate island. We have our share of international restaurants/ fast food including a great tradition of Indian curry houses.
One of my favourite parts of British cooking is still “proper” cake (and puddings) made with pure, simple ingredients – butter, flour, eggs, sugar, fruit as a Victoria sponge, Dundee cake or rhubarb crumble with custard. Unmatched by over fussy, formal European offerings or “look better than they taste” American layer cakes.
To each their own. Meh. I wasn’t a fan of English desserts or cuisine. The Germans do a far better rhubarb dessert and I certainly wouldn’t choose a Victoria Sponge over the sheer (and proper) delicacy of an Austrian Apricot Linzer Tort! Or a plate of homemade brownies, for that matter. No, I think the rest of the world is correct when they talk about English food. It is sorely lacking. We can’t all be good at everything.
To each their own. Meh. I wasn’t a fan of English desserts or cuisine. The Germans do a far better rhubarb dessert and I certainly wouldn’t choose a Victoria Sponge over the sheer (and proper) delicacy of an Austrian Apricot Linzer Tort! Or a plate of homemade brownies, for that matter. No, I think the rest of the world is correct when they talk about English food. It is sorely lacking. We can’t all be good at everything.
.
As I have said above, England has herbs not spices, so the food is not comparable to those cuisines majoring on spices, especially ‘hot’ ones. As the other replier Mr Miller notes, there really is not much truly English food available in restaurants. One item we really do better than any other country is cheese; more hard than soft but any decent supermarket, even, has a better range of cheese than any French supermarket I have been to. If you have decent cheese in the USA it’s very well hidden!
ms woke… yawn…
I think you are comparing the best of a whole world of cuisines imported into the USA with 1 native cuisine from 1 small, northern climate island. We have our share of international restaurants/ fast food including a great tradition of Indian curry houses.
One of my favourite parts of British cooking is still “proper” cake (and puddings) made with pure, simple ingredients – butter, flour, eggs, sugar, fruit as a Victoria sponge, Dundee cake or rhubarb crumble with custard. Unmatched by over fussy, formal European offerings or “look better than they taste” American layer cakes.
I think Americans judge British food against other European and ethnic food. And yeah…it is sorely lacking. Sorry. But it is. And yes, it is mocked by Americans, especially black and other ethnic groups who declare it is bland and flavorless compared to their cultural cuisine. Black Americans especially deride British food as “white people food” with little to no seasoning…They have a point. I have always found it very bland.
While we have our share of garbage cuisine (god, do we) we also embrace the food of of our South American and Mexican and Asian neighbors. You would be hard pressed to find an American who hasn’t had authentic Mexican food on more than one occasion (and no, not Taco Bell, I mean the good stuff). The most ordered dishes in the US include Pad Thai, burritos of all types, and fish tacos. Most breakfast menus have Chilaquiles or Huevos Rancheros. Cheeseburgers? You bet. But you will find alongside those with cheddar or American cheese, offerings of burgers with eggs on them or veggie burgers with Korean bulgogi flavorings. To those who wish to gorge themselves with vast quantities of red meat and excellent wine, Argentinian beef restaurants are all over.
Italian, French, Spanish cuisine? Oh we bastardized them horribly left and right. But any major city will offer a handful of places with authentic European cuisine, including places like Danish and Polish restaurants. And African cuisine is the new darling of the big cities.
Obviously other countries have this as well, but my point is as far as food goes: Our diversity has made for some wildly tasting offerings.
Now, if you want to talk about what we consider genuine American cuisine? Oh, we have good stuff if you’re lucky enough to get it homemade. Buttermilk fried chicken, ranch dressing, brownies, pecan pie…honestly. Why do you think we’re so fat? lol…it’s good if you can get your momma or grandmother to make it. Unfortunately, most visitors only taste it at a second rate restaurant chain.
Now if you compare any of the above mentioned cuisines and dishes, you have to agree. The Brits, although from the land of Shakespeare and great military maneuvers, are lacking in their cuisine as far as FLAVOR is concerned.