Malik’s book is full of delicious nuggets of the kind, and though his claims about the modern invention of race and racism aren’t news, he must be commended for the sheer accumulation of evidence in their favour. Through it all, he maintains a consistent and compelling argument: that race and racism served as alibis for class-based regimes of domination and exploitation that took hold — again, paradoxically — in the wake of the Enlightenment.
Slavery in the American South, for example, was racialised after the fact, as a way to break alliances between European indentured servants and African slaves, and to legitimate the greater use of slaves (whose bondage had no limits). In Europe, meanwhile, as capitalist development necessitated imperial expansion, good Enlightenment liberals increasingly adopted racialised claims about the need for the higher races to discipline the lower.
In the imperial cores, meanwhile, they came to treat their own outwardly “white” working classes as a different race. Indeed, race “scientists” ranked various European peoples according to the different quotients of Nordic, Alpine, and Mediterranean mojo that supposedly coursed in their veins; it just so happened that the Irish were found to have an outsize portion of Mediterranean “genes” — a fact that naturally explained their subjugation.
Even within individual European countries, the working classes came to be coded as black in their supposed laziness and antisocial nature. An item in The Daily Telegraph, for example, lamented that “there are a good many negroes in Southampton, who have the taste of their tribe for any disturbance that appears safe”; the paper, to be clear, was referring to the overwhelmingly white English working class.
Perhaps his most discomfiting argument — discomfiting in its unassailability — is that Nazi Germany didn’t rupture the ordinary development of Euro-American ideas on race and equality, but fulfilled them. Long before the National Socialists set out on their racial project, Theodore Roosevelt spoke of the moral rightness of subjugating Native Americans, for they were “but a few degrees less meaningless, squalid, and ferocious than… wild beasts”. In the Congo, Namibia, Australia, and, yes, British India, good liberals carried out their “compulsion to civilize”, as Malik puts it, with unspeakable tortures and mass atrocities.
America, especially, provided a racial template for the Nazis. The 1934 National Socialist Handbook for Law and Legislation noted that “the dominant political ideology in the USA must be characterised as entirely liberal and democratic” made it “all the more astonishing how extensive race legislation is”. The premier Nazi scholar of American law admired its “artificial line-drawing”, which dealt with the problem of “mongrels” by dividing the entire population into two groups, “whites and coloreds”, without fretting too much about details. In places, Nazi jurists felt American laws went too far, such as the rule that people with even a drop of “negro blood” are to be treated as black.
Did this affinity — between the world’s leading liberal regimes and their National Socialist foil in World War II — represent a betrayal of Enlightenment values? Yes and no, per Malik. The Enlightenment, he argues, may have inaugurated the modern ideology of race, but it also set forth the premises necessary to emancipate people from all arbitrary hierarchies.
The problem was that the radical, anti-racist Enlightenment of, say, a Diderot was eclipsed by the more moderate posture of a Burke or an Adam Smith, which was prepared to accept domination in the name of pragmatism and even “progress”. And as the liberatory promises of the Enlightenment crashed on the rocky shores of capitalist political economy, with its need for colonial expansion, darker racial sentiments took hold, as did the impulse for national purification and separation.
It fell to others — to Europe’s victims — to bring Enlightenment ideas to their logical conclusion. The heroes of Malik’s book are the “black Jacobins” of the Haitian revolution as well as C.L.R. James, Frantz Fanon, and even Malcom X in his later years. These were figures who saw — or in time came to see — that class and economic exploitation form the more fundamental power relationship in modern society. Race, in many ways, works to legitimate class-based domination and, especially in the United States, to forestall the emergence of a cross-racial labour movement.
Progressive identity politics, he suggests, obsessed with “cultural appropriation” and language-policing, harkens back to old ideas of racial separateness. It, too, helps forestall class solidarity across skin colour. At one point, Malik notes archly that one of the earliest “Black Power” conferences, in the Nixon era, was sponsored by… makeup brand Clairol.
Malik’s class-based analysis is largely correct: once you notice how 21st-century identity politics helps uphold today’s neoliberal political economy — offering diversity in the boardroom, but not living wages, good health care, and safe retirement — you can also see how the 19th-century variety served to uphold that era’s class-based hierarchies.
In the face of this, what is desperately needed is a more robust universalism, capable of generating and sustaining solidarity across cultural divides. Malik puts his hope in the ideals of the radical Enlightenment. Yet as he concedes early on, the Enlightenment notion of equality is socially constructed — that is, it rests on a social, rather than metaphysical, claim made about the radically free and equal status of all members of the human race. That’s good, so far as it goes, but as his masterful history shows, it often didn’t go very far. Indeed, these very same claims about progress and liberation came to form the basis of new dominations.
I wonder if the way forward lies (partly) in going back, in recovering what the moderns too rashly swept aside. In his early chapter on the premodern, pre-race world, Malik notes in passing that the Enlightenment made explicit a universalism that was always “implicit” in Christianity. In fact, Christian universalism is very much explicit. In the secularised West, it’s easier said than done, but having endured the modern horrors of racism, it might be worth taking inspiration from the universalism that proclaims that there really is “neither Jew nor Greek”. As I shudder at sentiments like those of my dinner companion, which seem to be rising, I take great comfort in the presence, however residual, of a religious doctrine that human beings share fraternity, not according to social construct, but owing to a common, divine paternity.
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Subscribe“Progressive identity politics …. harkens back to old ideas of racial separateness. …. ….. what is desperately needed is a more robust universalism, capable of generating and sustaining solidarity across cultural divides.”
No doubt.
When it comes to the vast majority of those who supported the BLM agenda, I’m sure it came from a good place. Those individuals who marched, who donated and who promised to ‘do better’ were, I’m sure, doing so with the best intentions. Sadly, I fear they were duped.
Many seemed unaware of the divisive undertones of BLM, not to mention the naked greed of the people behind the movement, and bought into the simple idea that ‘Black Lives Matter’. Of course Black Lives Matter, but that is so obvious as to be almost a banality.
How, though, do the well-intentioned justify to themselves calling for the cancellation of anyone who dared to suggest that ‘All Lives Matter’?
I don’t for a minute think that the majority of those who reflexively supported BLM actually wanted to see society more divided – but I can’t fathom how they thought the separatist attitude of the movement could possibly bring us together.
Just a few years ago we were exhorted as a society to be colour-blind, to accept people simply as people, whatever their background, their lifestyle, their “differences”.
What the hell happened to that idea?
For many years I lived in London and worked in an industry (Broadcast TV) that was as diverse as one could possibly find anywhere. As far as I was concerned the arguments of Race, Gender, Creed, Orientation had been fought and largely won. We seemed at the time – perhaps naively – to be enjoying the peace.
Maybe those who are inclined to be activists feel they have to keep picking at the scab and reopening old wounds or there is no point to their existence, but it seems incredible that we managed to go so far backwards and quite so quickly.
Self-described ‘progressives’ decry inequality of opportunity and income disparity as the two main evils that are fracturing society. But I’d suggest their Identity Politics agenda is a far more pernicious way to separate us.
Identity politics is the very antithesis of the principles of universalism – it suggests what differentiates us is more important than what we have in common. Surely we should treasure more what we share as members of a diverse community rather than seek to silo people and segregate that community into ghettos based on our racial identities, sexual orientation, age, gender or creed?
How do these people, who claim to speak for racial equality, justify shifting the argument from Martin Luther King’s dream of a future where people are judged according to their character rather than the colour of their skin to the point where these activists are calling for PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE? That you are defined as a person, solely by the groups to which you belong? To abandon that call for universalism in favour of separatism is surely a retrograde step? That point seems so incontestable to me that I am utterly baffled how progressives can think their present strategy is advancing the cause of equality.
Identity politics is by its nature divisive and intolerant. It silos people and silences people. Identity Politics tells us what groups we belong to and that our whole identity is defined by that group and dependent on that group, this drives a wedge between people who would previously have felt kinship with one another. It is hard to retain solidarity with your community when parts of that community are being taught that it is ‘right’ to mistrust the motives of another.
How many people ever preface a statement with – “Speaking as a ….. …..” unless they believe that belonging to that specific group confers on them special insight, or a ‘right’ to speak, that is denied to those outside the group?
Identity politics means I can’t “really” understand you, I can’t really empathise with you, I’m not allowed to because I am not a woman, or I am not black, I am not gay, I am not a Muslim. If I think I do understand you, or if I volunteer an opinion, then I’m mansplaining, I’m arrogantly assuming that my opinion is valid even though I don’t have the lived experience of suffering abuse by belonging to the right victim group.
Such are the grisly politics of grievance.
But not only do such politics of grievance divide us, they make us weaker, by glorifying victimhood and vilifying anyone who tries to suggest otherwise.
The #metoo movement could have been empowering, yet insisting that a clumsy advance, or an unwanted touch of a knee, is somehow equivalent to rape is insane. Who is that empowering? Teaching impressionable young women they’re likely to become victims, telling every woman they’re already a victim and that all men are naturally predatory? Does that heal divisions in society or exacerbate them?
Similarly, teaching young black men that they’re oppressed, that society doesn’t value them as much, that the police are not to be trusted. Who does that help? The ID Political agenda is divisive because it breeds a culture of suspicion. Those young men are being fed a world view that makes them suspicious of the people outside their community. Is that view more likely to improve their chance of success in life or does it weigh them down with unnecessary baggage? Does it drive a wedge between communities, between groups? Yes, I’d say it’s undeniable.
As I’ve written previously, I have a good deal of sympathy with the young in all this – not the activists who are pushing this agenda, but those who’ve grown up in this atmosphere. They’ve been fed a constant diet of woke totems and “progressive” thought (actually horribly regressive thought) throughout their education and now must navigate a thought-crime minefield – where the slightest miss-step can blow up in their faces.
Some, believing what they’ve been taught – and with the best intentions – try to stick to all the latest approved attitudes and mantras and find themselves saying and doing things that (I can only hope) will make them shudder with embarrassment when they look back on them in years to come.
I’m still optimistic that these well-intentioned youngsters, these ‘Children of the Quorn’, will be young enough to have the chance of an awakening (from their awokening?), though it is a shame that realising they’ve been manipulated will hasten the wariness (and cynicism) that comes with experience, at the expense of the idealism of youth.
Many such “progressives” would undoubtedly denounce any who’d think to pigeonhole someone whilst, almost in the same breath, constructing a fairly sturdy pigeonhole themselves and stuffing it with a well-fed pigeon.
You can’t win (unless you simply refuse to play their game).
Yes. Thanks for this Paddy. I’ve found these developments deeply troubling over the last five or so years in the arts. We were in the epicentre before it exploded and now more and more of these ideas are filtering in to different sectors. It’s only going to get worse as the outcomes of these ideas take hold in reality… the problem is, as Sohrab points out, that younger and older white people are going to be given no choice but to either firmly stand up for themselves or capitulate entirely. The other problem, that I find very very complex is that I do understand lots of the beginnings of woke thinking and many ideas have grains of validity. It’s the totality of it all in action which is devastating to society and culture. And it seems to demand totality.
Not ‘almost’ a banality.
Thanks Paddy. Excellent contribution
But….racism and misogyny DO exist. Both may be social constructs but they have real implications and consequences for all of us. The Stephen Lawrence case and ensuing McPherson report provided ample evidence that Black people in the UK were subject to elevated levels of violence by the public and the police. The Sarah Everard case and collapse of rape convictions has highlighted the extreme misogyny in the police and CPS.
The existence of racism and misogyny in the UK are, at the very least, uncomfortable facts which we have never defeated, despite what we may feel about working in institutions where the effects of such prejudice may have been minimised. To admit as such is not to capitulate to identity politics. Not is it to demand hang wringing guilt from white people/men, both of which have proven quite ineffectual in improving the material lives of men, women and children across the globe. The trick is to recognise the common enemy whilst acknowledging the effect of the constructs of inequality and to fight against them: EVERYONE should be fighting for a living wage, the dismantling of stop and search, vast investment into legal aid, universal childcare and housing and a fair, legal system of migration and asylum into the UK (amongst other things of course!)
Amy,
Yes, of course individual instances of “racism and misogyny DO exist”, but how best to tackle that?
Should we, as a society, treat everyone as equal under the law and with equal respect – which is what we were striving for just a few short years ago, or should we treat people differently, depending on which groups they belong to?
Critical Race Theory and Intersectionality – among other “fashionable” ideas – insist that we absolutely should treat people differently, depending on the colour of their skin, or depending on other immutable characteristics and the groups to which they belong …. and where those groups sit on the pyramid of oppression.
Are we better off treating everyone the same, or do you honestly believe that we should be worrying about whether we are the privileged or oppressed person in any encounter? No sane person should want to have to calculate who holds the power in any interpersonal interaction before they know how they should behave. To my mind, that’s lunacy and a clearly retrograde step, yet that is precisely what these activist-academics are calling for.
Such activists might push-back against this fact but, by every metric imaginable, the UK in the C21st is just about the most diverse and tolerant society in all the world, in all of history. Nothing threatens that more than this obsession with race and the blame and guilt associated with these new doctrines.
Paddy, I think we are broadly arguing from the same position, but with a different emphasis on the role of race/racism/misogyny in society:
I disagree that we are faced with ‘individual instances’ of racism and misogyny. Malik’s argument relies on an understanding that race and racism at least are institutional, not the work of ‘a few bad apples’ but quite literally built into the system in order to create division between poor blacks and whites to ensure social inequality isn’t truly challenged (see my later comment on white&black slavery).
I agree that we cannot treat every social interaction from a superficial position of identity, or, as you outline, a sort of ‘top trumps game of oppression’, because it disadvantages all of us who aren’t at the very top of the tree. But white people do need to recognise that racism exists, and to understand it as something we all need to fight against by demanding policies which undermine inequality for all of us. If we all demand mass building of social housing, chances are it will benefit black and brown communities the most, because those groups have historically been most affected by a lack of affordable housing. But such a policy would benefit poor whites as well. Redistribution of wealth would benefit all of us!
Paddy, thanks for the response. I responded but it seems my comment has…disappeared?
I think we’re arguing from the same position, I agree that ID politics are largely insubstantial and divisive because they don’t argue for a material change in the lives of men and women. BUT racism and misogyny aren’t ‘one off instances’, they’re institutional. To tackle this we can’t ignore the unfortunate truth that our economic system has created hierarchies of race and sex to maintain a pretty solid system of inequality across the board. My position is to recognise all divisions as class based and fight for the redistribution of wealth to benefit all. For example, free childcare benefits everyone but implicitly recognised that women’s labour cannot be take for granted, and the care of children should be paid for if we want a society with kids in it.
Housing is another example. After Grenfell data emerged that suggested black and migrant families were more likely to be housed above the 5th floor in high rise social housing. The unofficial bias resulted in greater chance of death for black/brown people in that particular tragedy. Now, I’m not asking that white people feel guilty, or that black people retreat to demanding black rights. Because Grenfell was primarily about poor people being inadequately housed. We all need to fight for fair social housing which recognises the needs of families by implementing social housing building on a massive scale. Everyone needs wealth redistribution. It improves all our lives regardless of race whilst tackling the social injustices caused by institutional racism.
‘BUT racism and misogyny aren’t ‘one off instances’, they’re institutional.’ Yet to illustrate your claim that they are ‘institutional’ you cite the same 2 names which are used every time. If any case showed ‘institutional’ racism, religious hatred, and misogyny it’s Rotherham, not to mention the more than a dozen other towns and cities where exactly the same crimes, with the same motivation perpetrated by the same groups, were – and are being – committed. Ask yourself why these don’t engage your attention rather than those you have chosen.
“..more than a dozen other towns and cities where exactly the same crimes, with the same motivation, are being committed”.
Are they? You will have serious evidence for this, not just some internet blog written by nutters who’ve never before given a flying crap about the issue of abuse (never mind ‘misogyny’) before it became a useful racial rallying cry?
You do know that one of the leading accusers has just been prosecuted for malicious false evidence? Using rape as a cynical political tool is dangerous- and misogynist, funnily enough.
There have been many convictions involving many girls. Courts convict on the basis of evidence. That one girl has been prosecuted for giving false testimony does not invalidate the many convictions, does it? In fact, if anything, it suggests that the judicial process is robust.
“More than a dozen other towns and cities, where exactly the same crimes….are being committed.”
“Many convictions” doesn’t constitute evidence for the above claim.
Read my post and respond to that.
Okay?
I did. Okay?
No you didn’t
This is what I posted
“There have been many convictions involving many girls. Courts convict on the basis of evidence. That one girl has been prosecuted for giving false testimony does not invalidate the many convictions, does it? In fact, if anything, it suggests that the judicial process is robust.”
And this how you replied”
“More than a dozen other towns and cities, where exactly the same crimes….are being committed.” “Many convictions” doesn’t constitute evidence for the above claim.
What has that got to do with my comment? I think you have a problem with comprehension.
Goodbye
Hello.
You were defending the comment I was responding to. That post included the phrase about the ‘identical cases in a dozen towns’. That’s the claim I wanted evidence for. You ignored it, and said something else.
If you can’t give evidence for a claim that I was asking evidence for, then fair enough. Don’t blame me, though, for your inability to answer the actual question I was asking.
Cheerio.
Hello.
You were defending the comment I was responding to. That post included the phrase about the ‘identical cases in a dozen towns’. That’s the claim I wanted evidence for. You ignored it, and said something else.
If you can’t give evidence for a claim that I was asking evidence for, then fair enough. Don’t blame me, though, for your inability to answer the actual question I was asking.
Cheerio.
No you didn’t
This is what I posted
“There have been many convictions involving many girls. Courts convict on the basis of evidence. That one girl has been prosecuted for giving false testimony does not invalidate the many convictions, does it? In fact, if anything, it suggests that the judicial process is robust.”
And this how you replied”
“More than a dozen other towns and cities, where exactly the same crimes….are being committed.” “Many convictions” doesn’t constitute evidence for the above claim.
What has that got to do with my comment? I think you have a problem with comprehension.
Goodbye
I did. Okay?
If legal conviction of these men doesn’t count as evidence I don’t see what does
The claim was “the exact same crimes are being committed…in more than a dozen other towns and cities.”
That’s what you’ve failed to give any evidence for.
The claim was “the exact same crimes are being committed…in more than a dozen other towns and cities.”
That’s what you’ve failed to give any evidence for.
Read my post and respond to that.
Okay?
If legal conviction of these men doesn’t count as evidence I don’t see what does
And I’m interested to know how many of those who have leapt on this hideous case have been equally vocally outraged by all the other recent cases of large-scale abuse; private schools and the Catholic Church, for example, don’t seem to feature much in ‘nativist’ tirades about this subject. I’m sure, despite the apparent silence, they care just as deeply when it doesn’t involve Asians.
Read my post and respond to that.
Okay?
Likewise.
Likewise.
Read my post and respond to that.
Okay?
“More than a dozen other towns and cities, where exactly the same crimes….are being committed.”
“Many convictions” doesn’t constitute evidence for the above claim.
And I’m interested to know how many of those who have leapt on this hideous case have been equally vocally outraged by all the other recent cases of large-scale abuse; private schools and the Catholic Church, for example, don’t seem to feature much in ‘nativist’ tirades about this subject. I’m sure, despite the apparent silence, they care just as deeply when it doesn’t involve Asians.
There have been many convictions involving many girls. Courts convict on the basis of evidence. That one girl has been prosecuted for giving false testimony does not invalidate the many convictions, does it? In fact, if anything, it suggests that the judicial process is robust.
“..more than a dozen other towns and cities where exactly the same crimes, with the same motivation, are being committed”.
Are they? You will have serious evidence for this, not just some internet blog written by nutters who’ve never before given a flying crap about the issue of abuse (never mind ‘misogyny’) before it became a useful racial rallying cry?
You do know that one of the leading accusers has just been prosecuted for malicious false evidence? Using rape as a cynical political tool is dangerous- and misogynist, funnily enough.
Amy,
Thanks for your response, I hope I’m not too late in replying – these threads always seem to have a fairly short shelf life.
I’ve spent a lot of time over the last few years on the Guardian site, on which I often encounter this idea that any racial inequality in society is immediately assumed to be proof of inequity. But that’s worth exploring, rather than merely assuming.
When it comes to educational attainment, to career prospects, to poverty, to crime, to incarceration, to life expectancy, there are countless competing factors that play a part. But just because things “correlate” it does not follow that one “causes” the other.
So, why do so many people ALWAYS focus on colour?
For instance: Growing up poor in an urban environment, in a single parent family, with no significant male role model figure is statiscally a far better predictor of contact with the criminal justice system than race. A young white boy growing up in that environment is many times more likely to drift into crime than a young black boy growing up in the suburbs with two working parents in the home.
The correlation with ethnicity only exists because there are distinct cultural differences that lead to absent fathers being more prevalent in one community than another.
These figures are from the UK’s Office of National Statistics:
In the UK 59% of black Caribbean children live in lone-parent households compared with 22% of white children.
Fathers from Asian backgrounds are the least likely to be non-resident whereas Black Caribbean, mixed race and Black African fathers are the most likely. But rather than tackle absentee fathers it appears much simpler just to blame everything on institutional and systemic racism. I don’t believe that is an honest assessment of reality – or one that is supported by stats.
I guess blaming the majority for the outcomes faced by a minority is a simpler, and seemingly more “progressive” way to go, but to my mind it helps no one. Yet that view is held almost as fact by most of the people I encounter BTL on the Guardian.
Stop and Search is always held up by Guardian commenters as a blatantly racist policy. But is it? The numbers suggest it is merely an effective, targeted approach to an observable problem.
Look at it another way – The vast majority of violent crime is perpetrated by Men. How is it that the liberal left don’t accuse the UK’s Criminal Justice System of Institutional Sexism?
Are there individual Police officers that are racist? I’m sure there are. But it is a huge leap to go from that fairly statistically inevitable fact, to then insist that the Police are “Institutionally racist”.
You brought up Stop and Search Policies, earlier on this thread, calling for them to be dismantled, but how would you – if put in charge of trying to police knife crime – go about it?
No race is innately predisposed to be involved in knife crime more than another. However, it is statistically indisputable that some cultures are significantly more likely to be involved in knife crime than others.
For the Police to ignore such obvious and observable correlations just to appease the sensitivities of the liberal media would be entirely self-defeating and, frankly, a gross dereliction of duty.
The overlap with the metric of knife injuries for under 25s shows enormous disproportionality in the way if affects young black men as victims and, I am sorry to say, as perpetrators. The stats make for uncomfortable reading. Nationally – you probably know the figures – you are four times more likely to be a victim of homicide if you are black and eight times more likely to be a perpetrator. That’s clearly a pretty good reason to be also over-represented in stop and search statistics then.
If your job was to tackle knife-crime, wouldn’t that be a pretty good reason to continue with a policy that has been shown over and over to reduce the problem.
I appreciate that doesn’t really fit with the dominant – apparently the only permissible – broadcast narrative of a community unfairly victimised by racist coppers.
And so the police will be told not to racially profile those they stop and frisk for weapons. Meanwhile young boys get stabbed and attack each other with machetes in broad daylight, but at least we haven’t hurt anyone’s feelings! I ask you, in all sincerity, if you think that would be a better approach?
I fear so much of this comes from the dystopian, relentlessly jaundiced view of the UK that is so prevalent across liberal media outlets.
But for each of the anecdotal instances of intolerance that get wheeled out as “proof” of widespread racism, sexism, homophobia, etc there are a million other instances of just everyday acceptance of people, – regardless of colour, ethnicity or nationality – that are not worthy of anecdote simply because they are so everyday. We can argue about what has caused this desire in some people to claim we are a nasty, xenophobic, intolerant country – but I think anyone honest would agree that it is not in any way an accurate reflection of this country at all – and does us no favours at a time when we should be putting the most positive view of Britain to the rest of the world.
Very well presented thanks Paddy
Very well presented thanks Paddy
You’ve really drunk the kool-aid of this intersectional nonsense. You have my sympathies.
Housing is another example. After Grenfell data emerged that suggested black and migrant families were more likely to be housed above the 5th floor in high rise social housing. The unofficial bias resulted in greater chance of death for black/brown people in that particular tragedy. Now, I’m not asking that white people feel guilty, or that black people retreat to demanding black rights. Because Grenfell was primarily about poor people being inadequately housed. We all need to fight for fair social housing which recognises the needs of families by implementing social housing building on a massive scale. Everyone needs wealth redistribution. It improves all our lives regardless of race whilst tackling the social injustices caused by institutional racism.
‘BUT racism and misogyny aren’t ‘one off instances’, they’re institutional.’ Yet to illustrate your claim that they are ‘institutional’ you cite the same 2 names which are used every time. If any case showed ‘institutional’ racism, religious hatred, and misogyny it’s Rotherham, not to mention the more than a dozen other towns and cities where exactly the same crimes, with the same motivation perpetrated by the same groups, were – and are being – committed. Ask yourself why these don’t engage your attention rather than those you have chosen.
Amy,
Thanks for your response, I hope I’m not too late in replying – these threads always seem to have a fairly short shelf life.
I’ve spent a lot of time over the last few years on the Guardian site, on which I often encounter this idea that any racial inequality in society is immediately assumed to be proof of inequity. But that’s worth exploring, rather than merely assuming.
When it comes to educational attainment, to career prospects, to poverty, to crime, to incarceration, to life expectancy, there are countless competing factors that play a part. But just because things “correlate” it does not follow that one “causes” the other.
So, why do so many people ALWAYS focus on colour?
For instance: Growing up poor in an urban environment, in a single parent family, with no significant male role model figure is statiscally a far better predictor of contact with the criminal justice system than race. A young white boy growing up in that environment is many times more likely to drift into crime than a young black boy growing up in the suburbs with two working parents in the home.
The correlation with ethnicity only exists because there are distinct cultural differences that lead to absent fathers being more prevalent in one community than another.
These figures are from the UK’s Office of National Statistics:
In the UK 59% of black Caribbean children live in lone-parent households compared with 22% of white children.
Fathers from Asian backgrounds are the least likely to be non-resident whereas Black Caribbean, mixed race and Black African fathers are the most likely. But rather than tackle absentee fathers it appears much simpler just to blame everything on institutional and systemic racism. I don’t believe that is an honest assessment of reality – or one that is supported by stats.
I guess blaming the majority for the outcomes faced by a minority is a simpler, and seemingly more “progressive” way to go, but to my mind it helps no one. Yet that view is held almost as fact by most of the people I encounter BTL on the Guardian.
Stop and Search is always held up by Guardian commenters as a blatantly racist policy. But is it? The numbers suggest it is merely an effective, targeted approach to an observable problem.
Look at it another way – The vast majority of violent crime is perpetrated by Men. How is it that the liberal left don’t accuse the UK’s Criminal Justice System of Institutional Sexism?
Are there individual Police officers that are racist? I’m sure there are. But it is a huge leap to go from that fairly statistically inevitable fact, to then insist that the Police are “Institutionally racist”.
You brought up Stop and Search Policies, earlier on this thread, calling for them to be dismantled, but how would you – if put in charge of trying to police knife crime – go about it?
No race is innately predisposed to be involved in knife crime more than another. However, it is statistically indisputable that some cultures are significantly more likely to be involved in knife crime than others.
For the Police to ignore such obvious and observable correlations just to appease the sensitivities of the liberal media would be entirely self-defeating and, frankly, a gross dereliction of duty.
The overlap with the metric of knife injuries for under 25s shows enormous disproportionality in the way if affects young black men as victims and, I am sorry to say, as perpetrators. The stats make for uncomfortable reading. Nationally – you probably know the figures – you are four times more likely to be a victim of homicide if you are black and eight times more likely to be a perpetrator. That’s clearly a pretty good reason to be also over-represented in stop and search statistics then.
If your job was to tackle knife-crime, wouldn’t that be a pretty good reason to continue with a policy that has been shown over and over to reduce the problem.
I appreciate that doesn’t really fit with the dominant – apparently the only permissible – broadcast narrative of a community unfairly victimised by racist coppers.
And so the police will be told not to racially profile those they stop and frisk for weapons. Meanwhile young boys get stabbed and attack each other with machetes in broad daylight, but at least we haven’t hurt anyone’s feelings! I ask you, in all sincerity, if you think that would be a better approach?
I fear so much of this comes from the dystopian, relentlessly jaundiced view of the UK that is so prevalent across liberal media outlets.
But for each of the anecdotal instances of intolerance that get wheeled out as “proof” of widespread racism, sexism, homophobia, etc there are a million other instances of just everyday acceptance of people, – regardless of colour, ethnicity or nationality – that are not worthy of anecdote simply because they are so everyday. We can argue about what has caused this desire in some people to claim we are a nasty, xenophobic, intolerant country – but I think anyone honest would agree that it is not in any way an accurate reflection of this country at all – and does us no favours at a time when we should be putting the most positive view of Britain to the rest of the world.
You’ve really drunk the kool-aid of this intersectional nonsense. You have my sympathies.
Housing is another example. After Grenfell data emerged that suggested black and migrant families were more likely to be housed above the 5th floor in high rise social housing. The unofficial bias resulted in greater chance of death for black/brown people in that particular tragedy. Now, I’m not asking that white people feel guilty, or that black people retreat to demanding black rights. Because Grenfell was primarily about poor people being inadequately housed. We all need to fight for fair social housing which recognises the needs of families by implementing social housing building on a massive scale. Everyone needs wealth redistribution. It improves all our lives regardless of race whilst tackling the social injustices caused by institutional racism.
Is this bias, or does it reflect the fact that black/stressed economic immigrants are, one assumes, new in the country, less educated, less wealthy less choosy etc? The greatest generational increases in socio-economic position are clearly shown by these same groups – which rather suggests racism is not the key.
Is this bias, or does it reflect the fact that black/stressed economic immigrants are, one assumes, new in the country, less educated, less wealthy less choosy etc? The greatest generational increases in socio-economic position are clearly shown by these same groups – which rather suggests racism is not the key.
Paddy, I think we are broadly arguing from the same position, but with a different emphasis on the role of race/racism/misogyny in society:
I disagree that we are faced with ‘individual instances’ of racism and misogyny. Malik’s argument relies on an understanding that race and racism at least are institutional, not the work of ‘a few bad apples’ but quite literally built into the system in order to create division between poor blacks and whites to ensure social inequality isn’t truly challenged (see my later comment on white&black slavery).
I agree that we cannot treat every social interaction from a superficial position of identity, or, as you outline, a sort of ‘top trumps game of oppression’, because it disadvantages all of us who aren’t at the very top of the tree. But white people do need to recognise that racism exists, and to understand it as something we all need to fight against by demanding policies which undermine inequality for all of us. If we all demand mass building of social housing, chances are it will benefit black and brown communities the most, because those groups have historically been most affected by a lack of affordable housing. But such a policy would benefit poor whites as well. Redistribution of wealth would benefit all of us!
Paddy, thanks for the response. I responded but it seems my comment has…disappeared?
I think we’re arguing from the same position, I agree that ID politics are largely insubstantial and divisive because they don’t argue for a material change in the lives of men and women. BUT racism and misogyny aren’t ‘one off instances’, they’re institutional. To tackle this we can’t ignore the unfortunate truth that our economic system has created hierarchies of race and sex to maintain a pretty solid system of inequality across the board. My position is to recognise all divisions as class based and fight for the redistribution of wealth to benefit all. For example, free childcare benefits everyone but implicitly recognised that women’s labour cannot be take for granted, and the care of children should be paid for if we want a society with kids in it.
Housing is another example. After Grenfell data emerged that suggested black and migrant families were more likely to be housed above the 5th floor in high rise social housing. The unofficial bias resulted in greater chance of death for black/brown people in that particular tragedy. Now, I’m not asking that white people feel guilty, or that black people retreat to demanding black rights. Because Grenfell was primarily about poor people being inadequately housed. We all need to fight for fair social housing which recognises the needs of families by implementing social housing building on a massive scale. Everyone needs wealth redistribution. It improves all our lives regardless of race whilst tackling the social injustices caused by institutional racism.
Stephen Lawrence case and ensuing McPherson report provided ample evidence that Black people in the UK were subject to elevated levels of violence by the public and the police. The Sarah Everard case and collapse of rape convictions has highlighted the extreme misogyny in the police and CPS… Nonsense, hyperbole I’ve drunk the kool-aid nonsense… Think Cressida d**k gave a pretty fair and informed run down on what’s what before she was thrown out by the arch grifter Khan. Check it out
Check out a police chief’s defence of herself? Not exactly the impartial, objective and unarguable Truth, is it? It’s one person’s defence of their job.
Perhaps you should “check out” other evidence before coming to your conclusion.
Lmao, yeah right she knows nothing.
That’s not quite grasping the point, is it Socrates?
Was it Socrates who invented the philosophical and epistemological heuristic now translated as ‘LMAO’? Or was it a sticky-fingered semi-literate twelve year-old from Idaho- I can’t remember.
Was it Socrates who invented the philosophical and epistemological heuristic now translated as ‘LMAO’? Or was it a sticky-fingered semi-literate twelve year-old from Idaho- I can’t remember.
That’s not quite grasping the point, is it Socrates?
Lmao, yeah right she knows nothing.
Check out a police chief’s defence of herself? Not exactly the impartial, objective and unarguable Truth, is it? It’s one person’s defence of their job.
Perhaps you should “check out” other evidence before coming to your conclusion.
Amy,
Yes, of course individual instances of “racism and misogyny DO exist”, but how best to tackle that?
Should we, as a society, treat everyone as equal under the law and with equal respect – which is what we were striving for just a few short years ago, or should we treat people differently, depending on which groups they belong to?
Critical Race Theory and Intersectionality – among other “fashionable” ideas – insist that we absolutely should treat people differently, depending on the colour of their skin, or depending on other immutable characteristics and the groups to which they belong …. and where those groups sit on the pyramid of oppression.
Are we better off treating everyone the same, or do you honestly believe that we should be worrying about whether we are the privileged or oppressed person in any encounter? No sane person should want to have to calculate who holds the power in any interpersonal interaction before they know how they should behave. To my mind, that’s lunacy and a clearly retrograde step, yet that is precisely what these activist-academics are calling for.
Such activists might push-back against this fact but, by every metric imaginable, the UK in the C21st is just about the most diverse and tolerant society in all the world, in all of history. Nothing threatens that more than this obsession with race and the blame and guilt associated with these new doctrines.
Stephen Lawrence case and ensuing McPherson report provided ample evidence that Black people in the UK were subject to elevated levels of violence by the public and the police. The Sarah Everard case and collapse of rape convictions has highlighted the extreme misogyny in the police and CPS… Nonsense, hyperbole I’ve drunk the kool-aid nonsense… Think Cressida d**k gave a pretty fair and informed run down on what’s what before she was thrown out by the arch grifter Khan. Check it out
Lucky you are not a gay muslim, as you might have a problem using your key board, unless you can type with only one hand…
I’m not quite sure why you’re bringing fundamentalist religion into a discussion about race- any idea?
Perhaps because in ID politics both are ‘protected characteristics’, though why a reactionary, backward, intolerant, and misogynistic religious belief system should be ‘protected’ is anybody’s guess.
Is the cutting off of Gay men’s hands a ‘protected characteristic’ in the US? No.
Still, never mind- there are plenty of US homegrown followers of a “religious belief system” who condemn homosexuality as evil, who are “reactionary, backward, intolerant and misogynistic”, so you don’t need to go to Islamic Saudi Arabia to find them.
Luckily, unlike Saudi Arabia, the US is still a secular state, despite the fury of some Fundamentalist Christians about this.
Is chopping the hands of gay men a “protected characteristic” in the US? I didn’t think so, maybe I’m wrong.
Moreover, there are many “reactionary, backward, intolerant and misogynistic” religious people who aren’t Muslim- luckily, the US is still a secular state, unlike Saudi Arabia, so they are limited in how far they can exercise their beliefs.
I’m intrigued that I’m not being allowed to reply to this. Can I have an explanation?
Ah- they’ve all suddenly appeared after ten minutes, like buses. Sorry.
{an update that no one was awaiting; they posted it about 12 hours later}
My response to the top-rated commenter hasn’t appeared yet, after about 2 hours. (Perhaps because I “played the H card”, but only in response to a “reluctant” apology on behalf of a fan of A.H.’s ideas and those who might reluctantly support him in response to an opposing racist who promotes “antiracism”). Some comments take hours (2, 8, 14) to go through, but typically do at last. On the other hand, some pretty extreme views–if they avoid a few hot-button words–are instantaneously posted, often to a cascade of upvotes.
Yes- it seems as if any comment not conforming to the standard, ranty “anti-Woke” template needs to be carefully considered prior to publishing, whereas some deranged tirade about “negroes” and ‘liberals being worse than German Nazis’ goes straight on as a worthy contribution to the ‘debate’.
Still, you can’t argue with a moderator.
Another little wrinkle: When it’s finally published, the time mark on the comment shows the time the attempt to post is was first made.
I still like the website though! And that’s not (mere) pandering.
Another little wrinkle: When it’s finally published, the time mark on the comment shows the time the attempt to post is was first made.
I still like the website though! And that’s not (mere) pandering.
Yes- it seems as if any comment not conforming to the standard, ranty “anti-Woke” template needs to be carefully considered prior to publishing, whereas some deranged tirade about “negroes” and ‘liberals being worse than German Nazis’ goes straight on as a worthy contribution to the ‘debate’.
Still, you can’t argue with a moderator.
Ah- they’ve all suddenly appeared after ten minutes, like buses. Sorry.
{an update that no one was awaiting; they posted it about 12 hours later}
My response to the top-rated commenter hasn’t appeared yet, after about 2 hours. (Perhaps because I “played the H card”, but only in response to a “reluctant” apology on behalf of a fan of A.H.’s ideas and those who might reluctantly support him in response to an opposing racist who promotes “antiracism”). Some comments take hours (2, 8, 14) to go through, but typically do at last. On the other hand, some pretty extreme views–if they avoid a few hot-button words–are instantaneously posted, often to a cascade of upvotes.
Can we at least agree to condemn ALL “reactionary, backward, intolerant and misogynistic religious belief systems”?
Is the cutting off of Gay men’s hands a ‘protected characteristic’ in the US? No.
Still, never mind- there are plenty of US homegrown followers of a “religious belief system” who condemn homosexuality as evil, who are “reactionary, backward, intolerant and misogynistic”, so you don’t need to go to Islamic Saudi Arabia to find them.
Luckily, unlike Saudi Arabia, the US is still a secular state, despite the fury of some Fundamentalist Christians about this.
Is chopping the hands of gay men a “protected characteristic” in the US? I didn’t think so, maybe I’m wrong.
Moreover, there are many “reactionary, backward, intolerant and misogynistic” religious people who aren’t Muslim- luckily, the US is still a secular state, unlike Saudi Arabia, so they are limited in how far they can exercise their beliefs.
I’m intrigued that I’m not being allowed to reply to this. Can I have an explanation?
Can we at least agree to condemn ALL “reactionary, backward, intolerant and misogynistic religious belief systems”?
Perhaps because in ID politics both are ‘protected characteristics’, though why a reactionary, backward, intolerant, and misogynistic religious belief system should be ‘protected’ is anybody’s guess.
I’m not quite sure why you’re bringing fundamentalist religion into a discussion about race- any idea?
children of The Quorn? Great to hear that they appreciate Hunting in Leicestershire! I love it…
Oh.
Oh.
“it suggests what differentiates us is more important than what we have in common.” and those differences are essentially trivial ones.
Thank you for covering pretty much all of what I’d wanted to write! Quite agree.
When Dr King’s ideas are implicitly (occasionally explicitly) held to be racist, we have a major problem.
Likewise the incessant harping on the single shrill note of “gender” – denying the physical (sex) and replacing it with the abstract (gender) is just another stigma of the societal malaise which empowers the right-on at the expense of a socially workable future for our children to inherit.
I personally remember being nonplussed in the 1980s, when the word “blackboard” was surreptitiously replaced with “chalkboard”, on the grounds that the former was potentially racist. I asked for a coherent explanation at the time and 30-odd years later, I’m still awaiting one. All that happened at that point was that I received a suspicious look and a reputation for asking inappropriate questions. I still delight in asking those. Socrates, Epictetus (born a slave, interestingly), et al. have left us lessons in the utility of doing so, and they’re for all of us to learn from, ethnicity and cultural inheritance notwithstanding. I recall CLR James being quite explicit on that last point, too.
“How, though, do the well-intentioned justify to themselves calling for the cancellation of anyone who dared to suggest that ‘All Lives Matter’?”
All lives matter.
One of worst consequences of the “Speaking as a ….. …..” mania has been all the bad grammar: “As a woman, it’s unfair that …”
Yes. Thanks for this Paddy. I’ve found these developments deeply troubling over the last five or so years in the arts. We were in the epicentre before it exploded and now more and more of these ideas are filtering in to different sectors. It’s only going to get worse as the outcomes of these ideas take hold in reality… the problem is, as Sohrab points out, that younger and older white people are going to be given no choice but to either firmly stand up for themselves or capitulate entirely. The other problem, that I find very very complex is that I do understand lots of the beginnings of woke thinking and many ideas have grains of validity. It’s the totality of it all in action which is devastating to society and culture. And it seems to demand totality.
Not ‘almost’ a banality.
Thanks Paddy. Excellent contribution
But….racism and misogyny DO exist. Both may be social constructs but they have real implications and consequences for all of us. The Stephen Lawrence case and ensuing McPherson report provided ample evidence that Black people in the UK were subject to elevated levels of violence by the public and the police. The Sarah Everard case and collapse of rape convictions has highlighted the extreme misogyny in the police and CPS.
The existence of racism and misogyny in the UK are, at the very least, uncomfortable facts which we have never defeated, despite what we may feel about working in institutions where the effects of such prejudice may have been minimised. To admit as such is not to capitulate to identity politics. Not is it to demand hang wringing guilt from white people/men, both of which have proven quite ineffectual in improving the material lives of men, women and children across the globe. The trick is to recognise the common enemy whilst acknowledging the effect of the constructs of inequality and to fight against them: EVERYONE should be fighting for a living wage, the dismantling of stop and search, vast investment into legal aid, universal childcare and housing and a fair, legal system of migration and asylum into the UK (amongst other things of course!)
Lucky you are not a gay muslim, as you might have a problem using your key board, unless you can type with only one hand…
children of The Quorn? Great to hear that they appreciate Hunting in Leicestershire! I love it…
“it suggests what differentiates us is more important than what we have in common.” and those differences are essentially trivial ones.
Thank you for covering pretty much all of what I’d wanted to write! Quite agree.
When Dr King’s ideas are implicitly (occasionally explicitly) held to be racist, we have a major problem.
Likewise the incessant harping on the single shrill note of “gender” – denying the physical (sex) and replacing it with the abstract (gender) is just another stigma of the societal malaise which empowers the right-on at the expense of a socially workable future for our children to inherit.
I personally remember being nonplussed in the 1980s, when the word “blackboard” was surreptitiously replaced with “chalkboard”, on the grounds that the former was potentially racist. I asked for a coherent explanation at the time and 30-odd years later, I’m still awaiting one. All that happened at that point was that I received a suspicious look and a reputation for asking inappropriate questions. I still delight in asking those. Socrates, Epictetus (born a slave, interestingly), et al. have left us lessons in the utility of doing so, and they’re for all of us to learn from, ethnicity and cultural inheritance notwithstanding. I recall CLR James being quite explicit on that last point, too.
“How, though, do the well-intentioned justify to themselves calling for the cancellation of anyone who dared to suggest that ‘All Lives Matter’?”
All lives matter.
One of worst consequences of the “Speaking as a ….. …..” mania has been all the bad grammar: “As a woman, it’s unfair that …”
“Progressive identity politics …. harkens back to old ideas of racial separateness. …. ….. what is desperately needed is a more robust universalism, capable of generating and sustaining solidarity across cultural divides.”
No doubt.
When it comes to the vast majority of those who supported the BLM agenda, I’m sure it came from a good place. Those individuals who marched, who donated and who promised to ‘do better’ were, I’m sure, doing so with the best intentions. Sadly, I fear they were duped.
Many seemed unaware of the divisive undertones of BLM, not to mention the naked greed of the people behind the movement, and bought into the simple idea that ‘Black Lives Matter’. Of course Black Lives Matter, but that is so obvious as to be almost a banality.
How, though, do the well-intentioned justify to themselves calling for the cancellation of anyone who dared to suggest that ‘All Lives Matter’?
I don’t for a minute think that the majority of those who reflexively supported BLM actually wanted to see society more divided – but I can’t fathom how they thought the separatist attitude of the movement could possibly bring us together.
Just a few years ago we were exhorted as a society to be colour-blind, to accept people simply as people, whatever their background, their lifestyle, their “differences”.
What the hell happened to that idea?
For many years I lived in London and worked in an industry (Broadcast TV) that was as diverse as one could possibly find anywhere. As far as I was concerned the arguments of Race, Gender, Creed, Orientation had been fought and largely won. We seemed at the time – perhaps naively – to be enjoying the peace.
Maybe those who are inclined to be activists feel they have to keep picking at the scab and reopening old wounds or there is no point to their existence, but it seems incredible that we managed to go so far backwards and quite so quickly.
Self-described ‘progressives’ decry inequality of opportunity and income disparity as the two main evils that are fracturing society. But I’d suggest their Identity Politics agenda is a far more pernicious way to separate us.
Identity politics is the very antithesis of the principles of universalism – it suggests what differentiates us is more important than what we have in common. Surely we should treasure more what we share as members of a diverse community rather than seek to silo people and segregate that community into ghettos based on our racial identities, sexual orientation, age, gender or creed?
How do these people, who claim to speak for racial equality, justify shifting the argument from Martin Luther King’s dream of a future where people are judged according to their character rather than the colour of their skin to the point where these activists are calling for PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE? That you are defined as a person, solely by the groups to which you belong? To abandon that call for universalism in favour of separatism is surely a retrograde step? That point seems so incontestable to me that I am utterly baffled how progressives can think their present strategy is advancing the cause of equality.
Identity politics is by its nature divisive and intolerant. It silos people and silences people. Identity Politics tells us what groups we belong to and that our whole identity is defined by that group and dependent on that group, this drives a wedge between people who would previously have felt kinship with one another. It is hard to retain solidarity with your community when parts of that community are being taught that it is ‘right’ to mistrust the motives of another.
How many people ever preface a statement with – “Speaking as a ….. …..” unless they believe that belonging to that specific group confers on them special insight, or a ‘right’ to speak, that is denied to those outside the group?
Identity politics means I can’t “really” understand you, I can’t really empathise with you, I’m not allowed to because I am not a woman, or I am not black, I am not gay, I am not a Muslim. If I think I do understand you, or if I volunteer an opinion, then I’m mansplaining, I’m arrogantly assuming that my opinion is valid even though I don’t have the lived experience of suffering abuse by belonging to the right victim group.
Such are the grisly politics of grievance.
But not only do such politics of grievance divide us, they make us weaker, by glorifying victimhood and vilifying anyone who tries to suggest otherwise.
The #metoo movement could have been empowering, yet insisting that a clumsy advance, or an unwanted touch of a knee, is somehow equivalent to rape is insane. Who is that empowering? Teaching impressionable young women they’re likely to become victims, telling every woman they’re already a victim and that all men are naturally predatory? Does that heal divisions in society or exacerbate them?
Similarly, teaching young black men that they’re oppressed, that society doesn’t value them as much, that the police are not to be trusted. Who does that help? The ID Political agenda is divisive because it breeds a culture of suspicion. Those young men are being fed a world view that makes them suspicious of the people outside their community. Is that view more likely to improve their chance of success in life or does it weigh them down with unnecessary baggage? Does it drive a wedge between communities, between groups? Yes, I’d say it’s undeniable.
As I’ve written previously, I have a good deal of sympathy with the young in all this – not the activists who are pushing this agenda, but those who’ve grown up in this atmosphere. They’ve been fed a constant diet of woke totems and “progressive” thought (actually horribly regressive thought) throughout their education and now must navigate a thought-crime minefield – where the slightest miss-step can blow up in their faces.
Some, believing what they’ve been taught – and with the best intentions – try to stick to all the latest approved attitudes and mantras and find themselves saying and doing things that (I can only hope) will make them shudder with embarrassment when they look back on them in years to come.
I’m still optimistic that these well-intentioned youngsters, these ‘Children of the Quorn’, will be young enough to have the chance of an awakening (from their awokening?), though it is a shame that realising they’ve been manipulated will hasten the wariness (and cynicism) that comes with experience, at the expense of the idealism of youth.
Many such “progressives” would undoubtedly denounce any who’d think to pigeonhole someone whilst, almost in the same breath, constructing a fairly sturdy pigeonhole themselves and stuffing it with a well-fed pigeon.
You can’t win (unless you simply refuse to play their game).
To cement its own power, the Left is summoning demons it can not control. Right now, the only people willing to meet the Left on their own race-essentialist terms are the neo-Nazis, and they are a tiny minority. However if even a double digit percentage of whites re-develop the kind of race-consciousness they had even 3-4 generations ago… the neo-Nazis won’t be tiny anymore. The mainstream Right (GOP) needs to find an way to defend white people soon; because the Left is openly attacking them (as a group) and thus Pied Piping us into a race war.
Richard Spencer and Ibram Kendi both see race first and individuality a distant second. The Left has universally embraced Kendi. Absent a clear and better alternative, the Right will start to (reluctantly) embrace Spencer as the lesser of 2 evils: “sure he’s a racist, but at least my kid won’t get screwed because he’s white” isn’t an entirely unreasonable voting strategy.
I agree, I’d call them “Liberals” though, and they’re not doing this for the first time.
GOP as a multi-racial working class party seems like a reasonable path to me – and there is leadership pursuing this. As you may agree the way to counter race-essentialism is not reverse-race-essentialism (aka racism).
“GOP as a multi-racial working class party..”
The problem with this is that the GOP is funded by billionaires and big corporations. They don’t give their money to promote the interests of the working class.’ whatever the media schtick might be.
see my comment above
see my comment above
In what way are they Liberal? Their core motivating belief is a universalist equitarianism and that isn’t Liberalism.
Agreed – “liberal” is a term co-opted to mean its antithesis. Today’s “liberals” are the proponents of prescription and social control, not any recognisable notions of classical liberalism.
Nor even it’s less-rabid mid-20th versions.
I hate to see classical liberal or libertarian leaning people succumb to roaring authoritarianism that seems safer to them than the threat from the far, far Left–let alone succumb to “reverse” or blood-and-soil identitarian battle mode.
Nor even it’s less-rabid mid-20th versions.
I hate to see classical liberal or libertarian leaning people succumb to roaring authoritarianism that seems safer to them than the threat from the far, far Left–let alone succumb to “reverse” or blood-and-soil identitarian battle mode.
Quite so. Hence my definition of woke: the authoritarian pseudo-progressive usurpation of liberalism.
Agreed – “liberal” is a term co-opted to mean its antithesis. Today’s “liberals” are the proponents of prescription and social control, not any recognisable notions of classical liberalism.
Quite so. Hence my definition of woke: the authoritarian pseudo-progressive usurpation of liberalism.
“GOP as a multi-racial working class party..”
The problem with this is that the GOP is funded by billionaires and big corporations. They don’t give their money to promote the interests of the working class.’ whatever the media schtick might be.
In what way are they Liberal? Their core motivating belief is a universalist equitarianism and that isn’t Liberalism.
Why is it that you think white people need defending? They are at the top of the tree all over the world. If they are low anywhere, it is because other white people shoved them down, in a white country.
I take those down votes as as something of an honour.
Please explain why I am wrong.
In the US, affirmative action and DEI elevate persons of color with special considerations and perks – at the expense of the majority of white people (sometimes at the expense of Asians). And this is being carried out BY GOVERNMENT.
Are you completely unaware?
You’re not.
Weirdly it’s because of a defence of identity politics by white people. Whenever there’s an article outlining the creation of race as a means to exploit black people, there is a rush to defend whites, either in the guise of ‘empire was a good thing because we built a few schools’, or ‘why should white people feel guilty for anything’, or ‘we need to stop seeing race’. All this amounts to a defence of being white as a primary identity around which to organise. It’s unfortunate, and misunderstands the thrust of the article which is to take a deep breath, and recognise that racism has a material and historical effect on perpetuating inequality across the races. Don’t hand wring, don’t get defensive. Don’t retreat to ‘being white’. Fight for class based solidarity.
Do one, you woke t**d.
You’re getting all upset again, Dickie- it’s probably not doing your heart any good. Watch something nice like Gone With The Wind, and calm down.
You’re getting all upset again, Rubber – it’s probably not doing your heart any good. Watch something nice like Gone With The Wind, and calm down.
You’re getting all upset again, Rubber – it’s probably not doing your heart any good. Watch something nice like Gone With The Wind, and calm down.
You’re getting all upset again, Dickie- it’s probably not doing your heart any good. Watch something nice like Gone With The Wind, and calm down.
It isn’t a case of defending a position it is more like repelling persistent attacks. Of course the developed nations have provided more to the modern world and its societies than underdeveloped ones….so far. BUT if you keep getting punched on the nose you eventually punch back no matter how much more privileged you are.
fair comment !
In the US, affirmative action and DEI elevate persons of color with special considerations and perks – at the expense of the majority of white people (sometimes at the expense of Asians). And this is being carried out BY GOVERNMENT.
Are you completely unaware?
You’re not.
Weirdly it’s because of a defence of identity politics by white people. Whenever there’s an article outlining the creation of race as a means to exploit black people, there is a rush to defend whites, either in the guise of ‘empire was a good thing because we built a few schools’, or ‘why should white people feel guilty for anything’, or ‘we need to stop seeing race’. All this amounts to a defence of being white as a primary identity around which to organise. It’s unfortunate, and misunderstands the thrust of the article which is to take a deep breath, and recognise that racism has a material and historical effect on perpetuating inequality across the races. Don’t hand wring, don’t get defensive. Don’t retreat to ‘being white’. Fight for class based solidarity.
Do one, you woke t**d.
It isn’t a case of defending a position it is more like repelling persistent attacks. Of course the developed nations have provided more to the modern world and its societies than underdeveloped ones….so far. BUT if you keep getting punched on the nose you eventually punch back no matter how much more privileged you are.
fair comment !
Your response shows you’ve either failed to read, or failed to understand, the original article. Try again.
Do all the authors on ‘Unheard’ write only in the first person;
which implies personal opinions over universal facts .
They use the word ‘I’ as if it is the most important word in the Oxford dictionary.
Too polite. Please be much more unpleasant to the woke scum.
Why don’t you just shoot the f*****s, Rich? Stop p*****g around…
Why don’t you just shoot the f*****s, Rich? Stop p*****g around…
Do all the authors on ‘Unheard’ write only in the first person;
which implies personal opinions over universal facts .
They use the word ‘I’ as if it is the most important word in the Oxford dictionary.
Too polite. Please be much more unpleasant to the woke scum.
White people come from a plethora of different races, as do black and brown people
Because woke racist scum like you are attacking them.
you are wrong because you have inherent bias…..”white” people all over the world are poor because poor is common. there are all types of ethnicities having a hard time. its astonishing to see grown men make the assumption that all white people are born with the gift of wealth….and yet work right aside them in the same jobs with the same salary
Call me from S. Africa and tell me about how white people are on top everywhere in the world. Or China. Or India. Or Japan (likely the most xenophobic country on the planet.)
Are they, though?
Not in China, Japan, most African countries, India, Pakistan, to name but a few.
I’d like an explanation as to why whites shouldn’t be at the top of the tree in traditionally white, Christian countries. They made their societies, and thousands died to achieve the astonishing level of civilisation they enjoy.
Why, then, do we just have to accept that others can come and enjoy the same, without the suffering undergone by their ancestors?
And why aren’t the same standards applied to genuinely racist societies, which is pretty much the whole rest of the world?
Why do we have to suffer this divisive, damaging theory, and its awful consequences, but no-one else does?
People are not deaf and dumb Chris. We may have resources and some security now, but we hear the Interahamwe rhetoric in the air, we read the CRT proposals in respectable media, we see the brutal destruction of our brothers and distant cousins, by woke institutions, cowardly boards and brutal HR departments in our places of work. We have even begun to see the Justice System corrupt along racial lines, where once OJ Simpson style verdicts were an exception, now these race based verdicts are becoming the norm.
In short we see the violence planned for us and we are acting accordingly. Why wouldn’t we prepare to defend ourselves? Why wouldn’t you prepare to defend yourself? There is no mercy in the social revolutionary’s heart Chris, don’t forget it for a minute.
The Western Left has a choice, drop race as an organizing ontology or perish from using race as an organizing ontology. And for now the ball is in the Left’s court, no matter how much they wish to deny it, all the power is in their hands now and for the near term. Use it wisely.
I take those down votes as as something of an honour.
Please explain why I am wrong.
Your response shows you’ve either failed to read, or failed to understand, the original article. Try again.
White people come from a plethora of different races, as do black and brown people
Because woke racist scum like you are attacking them.
you are wrong because you have inherent bias…..”white” people all over the world are poor because poor is common. there are all types of ethnicities having a hard time. its astonishing to see grown men make the assumption that all white people are born with the gift of wealth….and yet work right aside them in the same jobs with the same salary
Call me from S. Africa and tell me about how white people are on top everywhere in the world. Or China. Or India. Or Japan (likely the most xenophobic country on the planet.)
Are they, though?
Not in China, Japan, most African countries, India, Pakistan, to name but a few.
I’d like an explanation as to why whites shouldn’t be at the top of the tree in traditionally white, Christian countries. They made their societies, and thousands died to achieve the astonishing level of civilisation they enjoy.
Why, then, do we just have to accept that others can come and enjoy the same, without the suffering undergone by their ancestors?
And why aren’t the same standards applied to genuinely racist societies, which is pretty much the whole rest of the world?
Why do we have to suffer this divisive, damaging theory, and its awful consequences, but no-one else does?
People are not deaf and dumb Chris. We may have resources and some security now, but we hear the Interahamwe rhetoric in the air, we read the CRT proposals in respectable media, we see the brutal destruction of our brothers and distant cousins, by woke institutions, cowardly boards and brutal HR departments in our places of work. We have even begun to see the Justice System corrupt along racial lines, where once OJ Simpson style verdicts were an exception, now these race based verdicts are becoming the norm.
In short we see the violence planned for us and we are acting accordingly. Why wouldn’t we prepare to defend ourselves? Why wouldn’t you prepare to defend yourself? There is no mercy in the social revolutionary’s heart Chris, don’t forget it for a minute.
The Western Left has a choice, drop race as an organizing ontology or perish from using race as an organizing ontology. And for now the ball is in the Left’s court, no matter how much they wish to deny it, all the power is in their hands now and for the near term. Use it wisely.
You’re right about the Left having to “cement its own power”. It’s always been about power. And money–don’t forget money. Adopting people like Spencer, however, is hardly an antidote and probably only makes things worse.
We are all sinners. All of us. The author’s final sentence is ultimately the only solution, but in our world the likelihood that it could ever be employed on the macro level is virtually nil. It can only be achieved on the micro level–one sinner at a time.
“How to Read Now” by Elaine Castillo makes even liberal whites tremble.
Kendi has enjoyed a few seasons as a darling of the many on the far Left, but he is far from “universally embraced”, even by blacks left-of-center. One prominent example of this is self-proclaimed contrarian liberal John McWhorter, whose book Woke Racism is widely read and treated seriously by a lot liberals and some progressives. This is partly due to the fact that he’s black and “gets away with it” but not only I don’t think.
While I despise Kendi’s conclusions, I don’t see how a straight-up neo-Nazi can represent the lesser of two evils in some excusable way. Hitler rose to power amid real problems, and I’m sure many Germans joined the Nazi program quite reluctantly, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t a better way. I’ve only “played the Hitler card” because you referenced one of his fanboys.
“I don’t see how a straight-up neo-Nazi can represent the lesser of two evils in some excusable way.”
What’s the difference between a straight-up neo-Nazi attacking Jews or black people, and a straight-up woke racist attacking white people? There isn’t one.