Santos is nothing more than a serial liar who was able to spin fantastic tales because of a hollowed-out regime media that no longer speaks truth to power, and doesn’t have the resources or intelligence to dig into what seems like an entirely fanciful story.
The Dems should have done the background check, but they were so sure of victory in deep red New York they didn’t bother doing the research.
The guy almost certainly has some kind of mental health issues because the tales were so ridiculous.
I agree with the author that voters seem more willing to tolerate the awful behaviour of politicians. Biden is a liar. Trump is a liar. Maybe it would be different if voters had decent people to choose from.
It almost seems baked in that the options are always so poor. A veritable Hobson’s choice.
I’m only left wondering if this is by design or we’ve arrived at a point of the political and media system that compels fraudulence.
I think most right-thinking people avoid politics. Who wants their private life on display and every mistake they make to be pounced on by a pious media machine? The only people who can flourish in such a system are those who have no relationship with truth. In the long-term such a system is not self-sustaining and eventually collapses under the weight of its own inconsistencies. What’s happening at the moment in South America is a forerunner to what’s to come in the U.S.
I think most right-thinking people avoid politics. Who wants their private life on display and every mistake they make to be pounced on by a pious media machine? The only people who can flourish in such a system are those who have no relationship with truth. In the long-term such a system is not self-sustaining and eventually collapses under the weight of its own inconsistencies. What’s happening at the moment in South America is a forerunner to what’s to come in the U.S.
It almost seems baked in that the options are always so poor. A veritable Hobson’s choice.
I’m only left wondering if this is by design or we’ve arrived at a point of the political and media system that compels fraudulence.
And the Republicans didn’t check him because they were just looking for a warm body to put on the ticket.
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago
Santos is nothing more than a serial liar who was able to spin fantastic tales because of a hollowed-out regime media that no longer speaks truth to power, and doesn’t have the resources or intelligence to dig into what seems like an entirely fanciful story.
The Dems should have done the background check, but they were so sure of victory in deep red New York they didn’t bother doing the research.
The guy almost certainly has some kind of mental health issues because the tales were so ridiculous.
I agree with the author that voters seem more willing to tolerate the awful behaviour of politicians. Biden is a liar. Trump is a liar. Maybe it would be different if voters had decent people to choose from.
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
No one is “struggling to make sense” of Santos. He is obviously a liar who found for himself the perfect occupation, along side virtually all others in the same line of grift. The theatrical outrage is laughable given that a man who lies about literally everything was lied into the Whitehouse and people around the world pretend that he’s president. That’s what we struggle to make sense of.
True – otherwise , how would you explain the greatest liar, Adam Schiff, as chairman of the intelligence committee. He HAD all the info on the Trump Russiagate, for example, but lied about what was in there to the American people. I imagine he’s still very popular in California, and will run For Finestien’s senate seat.
I don’t know if you’re an American, but creatures like Schiff cling to the rafters of government for a reason: they can always be counted on to say the odious things for a little bit of meat so those in the nice rooms don’t have to. T’was ever thus. Thank God for memes to which earlier times had no access.
I don’t know if you’re an American, but creatures like Schiff cling to the rafters of government for a reason: they can always be counted on to say the odious things for a little bit of meat so those in the nice rooms don’t have to. T’was ever thus. Thank God for memes to which earlier times had no access.
True – otherwise , how would you explain the greatest liar, Adam Schiff, as chairman of the intelligence committee. He HAD all the info on the Trump Russiagate, for example, but lied about what was in there to the American people. I imagine he’s still very popular in California, and will run For Finestien’s senate seat.
No one is “struggling to make sense” of Santos. He is obviously a liar who found for himself the perfect occupation, along side virtually all others in the same line of grift. The theatrical outrage is laughable given that a man who lies about literally everything was lied into the Whitehouse and people around the world pretend that he’s president. That’s what we struggle to make sense of.
Paul Hendricks
1 year ago
From a Machiavellian perspective there is no need for a “prince” to be moral, though it may be advantageous to appear to be moral. But, if you can’t manage even that, remember that the public–which is itself cowardly and duplicitous by and large (if also powerful)–will forgive this or that moral failings if the practical outcome is better for them. (And if you leave their property alone.)
You hear more about Virtu when it comes to Machiavelli but he also stressed the importance of adaptability–yes, you
must “slap and thrust” when it comes to Fortune, in an effort to control her, but this also means adapting to the times she lays out.
So perhaps this Santos character has made a calculation that notoriety and audacity will be his entree to an influential political career–that nobody at this time cares if politicians are honest, rather if they can get the job done. Machiavellian.
Looking around at all these flimsy, hypocritical “moralizers” who meanwhile overlook–or encourage or carry out–any depravity as long as it benefits them, who could blame Santos for this tactic? (This from a Machiavellian point of view.)
On the subject of notoriety, the papal ban on Machiavelli’s work and the “scandalized Christendom” as well as the “Malevolent Machiavel” branding, actually helped spread his work and his name. The Prince itself was written in order for Machiavelli to rehabilitate his career–Machisavelli tailored it to appeal to, and to flatter, his would-be employers, the Medici. (It failed to do so. Some years later Fortune changed and his Arte della Guerra was what allowed him to regain favor.)
Trump of course is a great Machiavellian character. So many of his voters didn’t approve of the man but had the feeling he would deliver–which he did. And from a Machiavellian perspective Fortune gave him the opportunity to pick the supreme court justices, after he had “grabbed her by the pu55y,” to update Machiavelli’s similarly colorful phrasing. But he wasn’t Machiavellian enough: if only he had “adapted” slightly when conditions changed, in order to win a second term. I think his base would have forgiven him a bit of “moderation” of his views and tone during campaign season; and those who voted for him because of his abilities to make certain changes would have retained their confidence in his overall effectiveness.
Machiavelli isn’t an amoralist. He advocates bending to necessity, but also, if possible, upholding morality. I agree with the article’s depiction of Machiavelli as a traumatized idealist. “I know that every one will confess that it would be most praiseworthy in a prince to exhibit all the above qualities that are considered good; but because they cannot all be entirely possessed or observed, for human conditions do not permit it, it is necessary for him to be sufficiently prudent that he may know how to avoid the disrepute of those vices which would cause him to lose his state; and also to keep himself, if it be possible, away from those which would not lose him it; but if this is not possible, he may with less hesitation abandon himself to them.”
Trump is a politician who couldn’t be more different from the subtle and devious means recommended by Machiavelli. He got an opportunity to select two conservative Supreme Court judges, and did what any President would have done in the circumstances. He promptly lost both the House and the Senate at the first call of asking.
Machiavelli isn’t an amoralist. He advocates bending to necessity, but also, if possible, upholding morality. I agree with the article’s depiction of Machiavelli as a traumatized idealist. “I know that every one will confess that it would be most praiseworthy in a prince to exhibit all the above qualities that are considered good; but because they cannot all be entirely possessed or observed, for human conditions do not permit it, it is necessary for him to be sufficiently prudent that he may know how to avoid the disrepute of those vices which would cause him to lose his state; and also to keep himself, if it be possible, away from those which would not lose him it; but if this is not possible, he may with less hesitation abandon himself to them.”
Trump is a politician who couldn’t be more different from the subtle and devious means recommended by Machiavelli. He got an opportunity to select two conservative Supreme Court judges, and did what any President would have done in the circumstances. He promptly lost both the House and the Senate at the first call of asking.
Paul Hendricks
1 year ago
From a Machiavellian perspective there is no need for a “prince” to be moral, though it may be advantageous to appear to be moral. But, if you can’t manage even that, remember that the public–which is itself cowardly and duplicitous by and large (if also powerful)–will forgive this or that moral failings if the practical outcome is better for them. (And if you leave their property alone.)
You hear more about Virtu when it comes to Machiavelli but he also stressed the importance of adaptability–yes, you
must “slap and thrust” when it comes to Fortune, in an effort to control her, but this also means adapting to the times she lays out.
So perhaps this Santos character has made a calculation that notoriety and audacity will be his entree to an influential political career–that nobody at this time cares if politicians are honest, rather if they can get the job done. Machiavellian.
Looking around at all these flimsy, hypocritical “moralizers” who meanwhile overlook–or encourage or carry out–any depravity as long as it benefits them, who could blame Santos for this tactic? (This from a Machiavellian point of view.)
On the subject of notoriety, the papal ban on Machiavelli’s work and the “scandalized Christendom” as well as the “Malevolent Machiavel” branding, actually helped spread his work and his name. The Prince itself was written in order for Machiavelli to rehabilitate his career–Machisavelli tailored it to appeal to, and to flatter, his would-be employers, the Medici. (It failed to do so. Some years later Fortune changed and his Arte della Guerra was what allowed him to regain favor.)
Trump of course is a great Machiavellian character. So many of his voters didn’t approve of the man but had the feeling he would deliver–which he did. And from a Machiavellian perspective Fortune gave him the opportunity to pick the supreme court justices, after he had “grabbed her by the pu55y,” to update Machiavelli’s similarly colorful phrasing. But he wasn’t Machiavellian enough: if only he had “adapted” slightly when conditions changed, in order to win a second term. I think his base would have forgiven him a bit of “moderation” of his views and tone during campaign season; and those who voted for him because of his abilities to make certain changes would have retained their confidence in his overall effectiveness.
Mark epperson
1 year ago
The dude is nothing but a huckster, grifter, and sleazebag and those folks have been around since day one. To me, he is the endgame of the Bill Clinton politician that started in the mid 90’s and has come to the final model. Keeps things interesting, though.
Mark epperson
1 year ago
The dude is nothing but a huckster, grifter, and sleazebag and those folks have been around since day one. To me, he is the endgame of the Bill Clinton politician that started in the mid 90’s and has come to the final model. Keeps things interesting, though.
Michael McElwee
1 year ago
Does Khrushchev come to mind?
Graeme McNeil
1 year ago
Pretty standard conservative morals. I mean, you people voted for Trump.
Doesn’t take any special insight to see that Trump is a fraud and so is this clown Santos. Much like Johnson in the UK.
You people voted for these liars.
Explain why Trump is a ‘fraud’ – a specific term – rather than someone perhaps of dubious personal morality or someone whose policies – for example stopping uncontrolled migration from Mexico – you personally disapprove of?
Explain why Trump is a ‘fraud’ – a specific term – rather than someone perhaps of dubious personal morality or someone whose policies – for example stopping uncontrolled migration from Mexico – you personally disapprove of?
Doesn’t take any special insight to see that Trump is a fraud and so is this clown Santos. Much like Johnson in the UK.
You people voted for these liars.
Since a majority of people on this forum are not American, it is pretty unlikely that they ‘voted for Trump’. It is kind of depressing as well as boring how crass so many left wing ‘arguments’ usually turn out to be, amounting to nothing more than name-calling: ‘racists’, ‘fascists’, corrupt etc.
Since a majority of people on this forum are not American, it is pretty unlikely that they ‘voted for Trump’. It is kind of depressing as well as boring how crass so many left wing ‘arguments’ usually turn out to be, amounting to nothing more than name-calling: ‘racists’, ‘fascists’, corrupt etc.
Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Fisher
Graeme McNeil
1 year ago
Pretty standard conservative morals. I mean, you people voted for Trump.
Santos is nothing more than a serial liar who was able to spin fantastic tales because of a hollowed-out regime media that no longer speaks truth to power, and doesn’t have the resources or intelligence to dig into what seems like an entirely fanciful story.
The Dems should have done the background check, but they were so sure of victory in deep red New York they didn’t bother doing the research.
The guy almost certainly has some kind of mental health issues because the tales were so ridiculous.
I agree with the author that voters seem more willing to tolerate the awful behaviour of politicians. Biden is a liar. Trump is a liar. Maybe it would be different if voters had decent people to choose from.
Who did he run against? You’ll probably find Santos less objectionable. Certainly New York thinks so.
I think you’ll find that the revelations about Santos’s fantasy life came after the election.
I think you’ll find that the revelations about Santos’s fantasy life came after the election.
It almost seems baked in that the options are always so poor. A veritable Hobson’s choice.
I’m only left wondering if this is by design or we’ve arrived at a point of the political and media system that compels fraudulence.
I think most right-thinking people avoid politics. Who wants their private life on display and every mistake they make to be pounced on by a pious media machine? The only people who can flourish in such a system are those who have no relationship with truth. In the long-term such a system is not self-sustaining and eventually collapses under the weight of its own inconsistencies. What’s happening at the moment in South America is a forerunner to what’s to come in the U.S.
Decline of the western empire?
I think most right-thinking people avoid politics. Who wants their private life on display and every mistake they make to be pounced on by a pious media machine? The only people who can flourish in such a system are those who have no relationship with truth. In the long-term such a system is not self-sustaining and eventually collapses under the weight of its own inconsistencies. What’s happening at the moment in South America is a forerunner to what’s to come in the U.S.
Decline of the western empire?
And the Republicans didn’t check him because they were just looking for a warm body to put on the ticket.
Who did he run against? You’ll probably find Santos less objectionable. Certainly New York thinks so.
It almost seems baked in that the options are always so poor. A veritable Hobson’s choice.
I’m only left wondering if this is by design or we’ve arrived at a point of the political and media system that compels fraudulence.
And the Republicans didn’t check him because they were just looking for a warm body to put on the ticket.
Santos is nothing more than a serial liar who was able to spin fantastic tales because of a hollowed-out regime media that no longer speaks truth to power, and doesn’t have the resources or intelligence to dig into what seems like an entirely fanciful story.
The Dems should have done the background check, but they were so sure of victory in deep red New York they didn’t bother doing the research.
The guy almost certainly has some kind of mental health issues because the tales were so ridiculous.
I agree with the author that voters seem more willing to tolerate the awful behaviour of politicians. Biden is a liar. Trump is a liar. Maybe it would be different if voters had decent people to choose from.
No one is “struggling to make sense” of Santos. He is obviously a liar who found for himself the perfect occupation, along side virtually all others in the same line of grift. The theatrical outrage is laughable given that a man who lies about literally everything was lied into the Whitehouse and people around the world pretend that he’s president. That’s what we struggle to make sense of.
True – otherwise , how would you explain the greatest liar, Adam Schiff, as chairman of the intelligence committee. He HAD all the info on the Trump Russiagate, for example, but lied about what was in there to the American people. I imagine he’s still very popular in California, and will run For Finestien’s senate seat.
I don’t know if you’re an American, but creatures like Schiff cling to the rafters of government for a reason: they can always be counted on to say the odious things for a little bit of meat so those in the nice rooms don’t have to. T’was ever thus. Thank God for memes to which earlier times had no access.
I don’t know if you’re an American, but creatures like Schiff cling to the rafters of government for a reason: they can always be counted on to say the odious things for a little bit of meat so those in the nice rooms don’t have to. T’was ever thus. Thank God for memes to which earlier times had no access.
You mean ‘voted into the White House’
True – otherwise , how would you explain the greatest liar, Adam Schiff, as chairman of the intelligence committee. He HAD all the info on the Trump Russiagate, for example, but lied about what was in there to the American people. I imagine he’s still very popular in California, and will run For Finestien’s senate seat.
You mean ‘voted into the White House’
No one is “struggling to make sense” of Santos. He is obviously a liar who found for himself the perfect occupation, along side virtually all others in the same line of grift. The theatrical outrage is laughable given that a man who lies about literally everything was lied into the Whitehouse and people around the world pretend that he’s president. That’s what we struggle to make sense of.
From a Machiavellian perspective there is no need for a “prince” to be moral, though it may be advantageous to appear to be moral. But, if you can’t manage even that, remember that the public–which is itself cowardly and duplicitous by and large (if also powerful)–will forgive this or that moral failings if the practical outcome is better for them. (And if you leave their property alone.)
You hear more about Virtu when it comes to Machiavelli but he also stressed the importance of adaptability–yes, you
must “slap and thrust” when it comes to Fortune, in an effort to control her, but this also means adapting to the times she lays out.
So perhaps this Santos character has made a calculation that notoriety and audacity will be his entree to an influential political career–that nobody at this time cares if politicians are honest, rather if they can get the job done. Machiavellian.
Looking around at all these flimsy, hypocritical “moralizers” who meanwhile overlook–or encourage or carry out–any depravity as long as it benefits them, who could blame Santos for this tactic? (This from a Machiavellian point of view.)
On the subject of notoriety, the papal ban on Machiavelli’s work and the “scandalized Christendom” as well as the “Malevolent Machiavel” branding, actually helped spread his work and his name. The Prince itself was written in order for Machiavelli to rehabilitate his career–Machisavelli tailored it to appeal to, and to flatter, his would-be employers, the Medici. (It failed to do so. Some years later Fortune changed and his Arte della Guerra was what allowed him to regain favor.)
Trump of course is a great Machiavellian character. So many of his voters didn’t approve of the man but had the feeling he would deliver–which he did. And from a Machiavellian perspective Fortune gave him the opportunity to pick the supreme court justices, after he had “grabbed her by the pu55y,” to update Machiavelli’s similarly colorful phrasing. But he wasn’t Machiavellian enough: if only he had “adapted” slightly when conditions changed, in order to win a second term. I think his base would have forgiven him a bit of “moderation” of his views and tone during campaign season; and those who voted for him because of his abilities to make certain changes would have retained their confidence in his overall effectiveness.
Machiavelli isn’t an amoralist. He advocates bending to necessity, but also, if possible, upholding morality. I agree with the article’s depiction of Machiavelli as a traumatized idealist. “I know that every one will confess that it would be most praiseworthy in a prince to exhibit all the above qualities that are considered good; but because they cannot all be entirely possessed or observed, for human conditions do not permit it, it is necessary for him to be sufficiently prudent that he may know how to avoid the disrepute of those vices which would cause him to lose his state; and also to keep himself, if it be possible, away from those which would not lose him it; but if this is not possible, he may with less hesitation abandon himself to them.”
Trump is a politician who couldn’t be more different from the subtle and devious means recommended by Machiavelli. He got an opportunity to select two conservative Supreme Court judges, and did what any President would have done in the circumstances. He promptly lost both the House and the Senate at the first call of asking.
Machiavelli isn’t an amoralist. He advocates bending to necessity, but also, if possible, upholding morality. I agree with the article’s depiction of Machiavelli as a traumatized idealist. “I know that every one will confess that it would be most praiseworthy in a prince to exhibit all the above qualities that are considered good; but because they cannot all be entirely possessed or observed, for human conditions do not permit it, it is necessary for him to be sufficiently prudent that he may know how to avoid the disrepute of those vices which would cause him to lose his state; and also to keep himself, if it be possible, away from those which would not lose him it; but if this is not possible, he may with less hesitation abandon himself to them.”
Trump is a politician who couldn’t be more different from the subtle and devious means recommended by Machiavelli. He got an opportunity to select two conservative Supreme Court judges, and did what any President would have done in the circumstances. He promptly lost both the House and the Senate at the first call of asking.
From a Machiavellian perspective there is no need for a “prince” to be moral, though it may be advantageous to appear to be moral. But, if you can’t manage even that, remember that the public–which is itself cowardly and duplicitous by and large (if also powerful)–will forgive this or that moral failings if the practical outcome is better for them. (And if you leave their property alone.)
You hear more about Virtu when it comes to Machiavelli but he also stressed the importance of adaptability–yes, you
must “slap and thrust” when it comes to Fortune, in an effort to control her, but this also means adapting to the times she lays out.
So perhaps this Santos character has made a calculation that notoriety and audacity will be his entree to an influential political career–that nobody at this time cares if politicians are honest, rather if they can get the job done. Machiavellian.
Looking around at all these flimsy, hypocritical “moralizers” who meanwhile overlook–or encourage or carry out–any depravity as long as it benefits them, who could blame Santos for this tactic? (This from a Machiavellian point of view.)
On the subject of notoriety, the papal ban on Machiavelli’s work and the “scandalized Christendom” as well as the “Malevolent Machiavel” branding, actually helped spread his work and his name. The Prince itself was written in order for Machiavelli to rehabilitate his career–Machisavelli tailored it to appeal to, and to flatter, his would-be employers, the Medici. (It failed to do so. Some years later Fortune changed and his Arte della Guerra was what allowed him to regain favor.)
Trump of course is a great Machiavellian character. So many of his voters didn’t approve of the man but had the feeling he would deliver–which he did. And from a Machiavellian perspective Fortune gave him the opportunity to pick the supreme court justices, after he had “grabbed her by the pu55y,” to update Machiavelli’s similarly colorful phrasing. But he wasn’t Machiavellian enough: if only he had “adapted” slightly when conditions changed, in order to win a second term. I think his base would have forgiven him a bit of “moderation” of his views and tone during campaign season; and those who voted for him because of his abilities to make certain changes would have retained their confidence in his overall effectiveness.
The dude is nothing but a huckster, grifter, and sleazebag and those folks have been around since day one. To me, he is the endgame of the Bill Clinton politician that started in the mid 90’s and has come to the final model. Keeps things interesting, though.
The dude is nothing but a huckster, grifter, and sleazebag and those folks have been around since day one. To me, he is the endgame of the Bill Clinton politician that started in the mid 90’s and has come to the final model. Keeps things interesting, though.
Does Khrushchev come to mind?
Pretty standard conservative morals. I mean, you people voted for Trump.
What a charmed life you must lead, being able to neatly divide the world into good and evil.
Doesn’t take any special insight to see that Trump is a fraud and so is this clown Santos. Much like Johnson in the UK.
You people voted for these liars.
Does Biden and Blair ring a bell? So-called liberals are the last to preach about morality. So sit down
Explain why Trump is a ‘fraud’ – a specific term – rather than someone perhaps of dubious personal morality or someone whose policies – for example stopping uncontrolled migration from Mexico – you personally disapprove of?
Does Biden and Blair ring a bell? So-called liberals are the last to preach about morality. So sit down
Explain why Trump is a ‘fraud’ – a specific term – rather than someone perhaps of dubious personal morality or someone whose policies – for example stopping uncontrolled migration from Mexico – you personally disapprove of?
Doesn’t take any special insight to see that Trump is a fraud and so is this clown Santos. Much like Johnson in the UK.
You people voted for these liars.
Don’t know what you mean by ‘you people’. Almost none of the conservatives I know voted for Trump–because of his morals.
Since a majority of people on this forum are not American, it is pretty unlikely that they ‘voted for Trump’. It is kind of depressing as well as boring how crass so many left wing ‘arguments’ usually turn out to be, amounting to nothing more than name-calling: ‘racists’, ‘fascists’, corrupt etc.
What a charmed life you must lead, being able to neatly divide the world into good and evil.
Don’t know what you mean by ‘you people’. Almost none of the conservatives I know voted for Trump–because of his morals.
Since a majority of people on this forum are not American, it is pretty unlikely that they ‘voted for Trump’. It is kind of depressing as well as boring how crass so many left wing ‘arguments’ usually turn out to be, amounting to nothing more than name-calling: ‘racists’, ‘fascists’, corrupt etc.
Pretty standard conservative morals. I mean, you people voted for Trump.