As you say, tofu is as woke as BLM so you could never print this. The article is great as a fight back but, although I sort of agree with the ideas of the author, it doesn’t really hold water.
Firstly, like everyone else, I know quite a few vegans and always ask them, “Why?”. I haven’t found one yet who talked about the environmental issues. All go a little wet-eyed and say, “Just think about the cruelty to animals in farming.” I am sure there are some very fine, caring, farmers but there are also some very cruel ones.
Secondly, most countries can’t grow all of their own meat and there has to be a lot of cling-filming and transport to get it safely into my stomach. Supermarkets are bringing in meat from all over the world and it might well have been treated to increase the length of time of storage. I am an avid reader of ingredients and ‘preservative’ appears more often than not.
The third thought for me is that the world could go vegan for 50 years and nobody knows what the long-term health implications would be. True, in countries like India veganism has been around for many years but we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu. So to change to a tofu-diet there would be huge education requirements.
When all this was happening and the cities were slowly being tofucated, there would be a black market of farmers shooting rabbits in the countryside until the last rabbit disappeared. Eggs would be selling at $20 each and people would be hiding the hens in their houses. Just like 500 years ago, in fact. Wonderful times!!
Unherd does have some bugs. I find reloading the page usually solves the problem. Failing that, restart the computer and fix a gin martini whilst you are waiting.
I “reply” to an existing comment. Don’t bother posting it unless I have something to say. Then refresh and try “join the discussion” once again. Usually works.
Unherd does have some bugs. I find reloading the page usually solves the problem. Failing that, restart the computer and fix a gin martini whilst you are waiting.
I “reply” to an existing comment. Don’t bother posting it unless I have something to say. Then refresh and try “join the discussion” once again. Usually works.
“. . . we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu.”
Why not both? Or all of the above? I went vegan after experiencing some health problems. Clogged arteries.
“countries like India veganism has been around for many years”
No, countries like India have been vegetarian. Milk and milk products are a central part of the diet for everyone. (I believe vegans are not very fond of milk?)
And that’s not the only difference. Vegetarians in India view that as a personal choice, and don’t see themselves as “saving” the world.
And there is a lot of emphasis on cooking vegetarian food well (India has by far the best and most varied veggie food in the world) rather than “converting” non veggies with melodrama and weird “veggie” meat products mimicking meat.
I saw some ‘bacon’ in a supermarket yesterday. It was tofucated bacon. It looked absolutely revolting. Better to eat a slice of tofu without the disguise.
.
And I tried some recently, as it was marked down.
.
I can confirm that – as well as looking revolting – it tasted totally and utterly revolting.
.
Never again.
.
.
And I tried some recently, as it was marked down.
.
I can confirm that – as well as looking revolting – it tasted totally and utterly revolting.
.
Never again.
.
I saw some ‘bacon’ in a supermarket yesterday. It was tofucated bacon. It looked absolutely revolting. Better to eat a slice of tofu without the disguise.
Your opinion is mainstream. The vast majority of people eat meat and ignore the clear and present danger to all creatures on earth by habitat destruction, diseases incubated in factory farms etc.
These are not wonderful times.
About Indian vegetarianism, traditional Indian farmers weren’t very good at keeping vermin out of their storage buildings and their “vegan” foods were replete with plenty of insects. They didn’t need B12 supplements because they got enough animal protein from the bugs.
A. Tofu a been eaten for centuries in China. Contrary to the assumptions of the Daily Telegraph, it wasn’t invented last week by a 19 year-old trans Guardian-reader in Hackney.
B. Nobody, anywhere, is suggesting an all-tofu diet.
C. India has no major tradition of veganism. You’re thinking of vegetarianism.
D. Rabbits in much of Britain have been decimated by Rabbit Haemorrhagic Disease, so you won’t need to wait for vegans to blame for their demise.
“. . . we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu.”
Why not both? Or all of the above? I went vegan after experiencing some health problems. Clogged arteries.
“countries like India veganism has been around for many years”
No, countries like India have been vegetarian. Milk and milk products are a central part of the diet for everyone. (I believe vegans are not very fond of milk?)
And that’s not the only difference. Vegetarians in India view that as a personal choice, and don’t see themselves as “saving” the world.
And there is a lot of emphasis on cooking vegetarian food well (India has by far the best and most varied veggie food in the world) rather than “converting” non veggies with melodrama and weird “veggie” meat products mimicking meat.
Your opinion is mainstream. The vast majority of people eat meat and ignore the clear and present danger to all creatures on earth by habitat destruction, diseases incubated in factory farms etc.
These are not wonderful times.
About Indian vegetarianism, traditional Indian farmers weren’t very good at keeping vermin out of their storage buildings and their “vegan” foods were replete with plenty of insects. They didn’t need B12 supplements because they got enough animal protein from the bugs.
A. Tofu a been eaten for centuries in China. Contrary to the assumptions of the Daily Telegraph, it wasn’t invented last week by a 19 year-old trans Guardian-reader in Hackney.
B. Nobody, anywhere, is suggesting an all-tofu diet.
C. India has no major tradition of veganism. You’re thinking of vegetarianism.
D. Rabbits in much of Britain have been decimated by Rabbit Haemorrhagic Disease, so you won’t need to wait for vegans to blame for their demise.
The wondrous BBC food calculator reminded me of the way Australia calculates our impressive improvements towards net zero, i.e. fake calculations.
Being a vegetarian, and having lived for years in Asia, I have eaten my fair share of tofu (and even pronounce it dough (as in bread)-fu) but have never, ever bought it for myself: tasteless, insipid texture, and all the issues mentioned in the article. Tempe is another thing altogether – easy to fry up and smother with tomato sauce.
I’m ‘replying’ to your comment because I don’t get a comment box anymore.
Reload the page and if that doesn’t work restart your machine. Sometimes clearing the browser cache seems to work, though that is probably a coincidence.
Reload the page and if that doesn’t work restart your machine. Sometimes clearing the browser cache seems to work, though that is probably a coincidence.
As you say, tofu is as woke as BLM so you could never print this. The article is great as a fight back but, although I sort of agree with the ideas of the author, it doesn’t really hold water.
Firstly, like everyone else, I know quite a few vegans and always ask them, “Why?”. I haven’t found one yet who talked about the environmental issues. All go a little wet-eyed and say, “Just think about the cruelty to animals in farming.” I am sure there are some very fine, caring, farmers but there are also some very cruel ones.
Secondly, most countries can’t grow all of their own meat and there has to be a lot of cling-filming and transport to get it safely into my stomach. Supermarkets are bringing in meat from all over the world and it might well have been treated to increase the length of time of storage. I am an avid reader of ingredients and ‘preservative’ appears more often than not.
The third thought for me is that the world could go vegan for 50 years and nobody knows what the long-term health implications would be. True, in countries like India veganism has been around for many years but we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu. So to change to a tofu-diet there would be huge education requirements.
When all this was happening and the cities were slowly being tofucated, there would be a black market of farmers shooting rabbits in the countryside until the last rabbit disappeared. Eggs would be selling at $20 each and people would be hiding the hens in their houses. Just like 500 years ago, in fact. Wonderful times!!
The wondrous BBC food calculator reminded me of the way Australia calculates our impressive improvements towards net zero, i.e. fake calculations.
Being a vegetarian, and having lived for years in Asia, I have eaten my fair share of tofu (and even pronounce it dough (as in bread)-fu) but have never, ever bought it for myself: tasteless, insipid texture, and all the issues mentioned in the article. Tempe is another thing altogether – easy to fry up and smother with tomato sauce.
I’m ‘replying’ to your comment because I don’t get a comment box anymore.
Remember the last article by this writer? A member I’d never even seen post before clocked 800 upvotes and swamped the comments section.
Last edited 1 year ago by Matthew Powell
Brett H
1 year ago
I await the onslaught of the puritans.
Louise Jorgensen
1 year ago
Ummmm…. More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to animals for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk. Get off the tofu hate bandwagon.
Louise Jorgensen
1 year ago
Ummmm…. More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to animals for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk. Get off the tofu hate bandwagon.
And the way to promote your view is to keep talking about a referendum about NetZero. If you think about it, somebody as ridiculous as Sturgeon has become famous by talking about a referendum – a totally trivial one. Referendum, referendum, referendum….
My computer’s spell checker seems to regard both as acceptable. I mean that’s how the English language works right? Just accept everything people use regularly and import a bunch of words from every other language until none of it makes any sense.
I got out of this by saying referendum, referendum, referendum but it’s not very efficient. If a referendum took place regularly, as in Switzerland, I would get bored and say referenda. Once every few years would be more interesting and would demand referendums
My computer’s spell checker seems to regard both as acceptable. I mean that’s how the English language works right? Just accept everything people use regularly and import a bunch of words from every other language until none of it makes any sense.
I got out of this by saying referendum, referendum, referendum but it’s not very efficient. If a referendum took place regularly, as in Switzerland, I would get bored and say referenda. Once every few years would be more interesting and would demand referendums
I don’t know why people always feel a need to point this out. No one’s suggesting the earth will explode like the death star. They’re talking about ecological damage.
I don’t know why people always feel a need to point this out. No one’s suggesting the earth will explode like the death star. They’re talking about ecological damage.
Oh really….? I don’t think David Attenborough or thousands of climate scientists would agree. Nor would all the people experiencing extreme weather events.
And the way to promote your view is to keep talking about a referendum about NetZero. If you think about it, somebody as ridiculous as Sturgeon has become famous by talking about a referendum – a totally trivial one. Referendum, referendum, referendum….
Oh really….? I don’t think David Attenborough or thousands of climate scientists would agree. Nor would all the people experiencing extreme weather events.
No. The planet doesn’t need saving.
Sadly, though, pretty much every inhabitant except humans, livestock, dogs and rats, do.
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
The planet doesn’t need saving. It’s fine.
Steve Jolly
1 year ago
It is increasingly apparent to me that regardless of the truth or fiction of climate change, that the issue is being widely exploited by corporations to hawk their allegedly ‘green products’. For those unfamiliar with marketing practices, most companies specifically target the 18-35 year old demographic because it is during those years that adults form purchasing patterns that will last a lifetime. These days it’s climate change and social justice, which I regard as dubiously as most other people old enough to remember the Reagan administration. When I was younger there were different causes. I remember things like ‘dolphin safe’ tuna or the ever popular advertising that claimed a dollar from every purchase goes to starving children in Africa. This is basic mass marketing 101, which any professor thereof would readily confirm. Of course so called green corporations are just as bad as oil companies and chemical companies and insurance companies and banks. A horse painted green is, alas, still a horse, a pig with lipstick is still a pig, etc. They all bend the truth as far as they legally and believably can to make money and have been doing so since well before any of us were born. You’ll never see a commercial for sausage that takes place in a working sausage factory, and there’s a good reason why. They’re using climate change to push their product to a customer demographic, and bending the truth to do it. That’s basically the whole story. I have zero problem with those who go vegan for animal cruelty reasons. That is a very personal issue and frankly none of my or anybody else’s business. I do have a problem with corporate exploitation in all its various forms, and here we have a textbook example of how corporations bend the truth for profit, compromise the science behind industrial practices, and distort the public perceptions around important issues. The ‘green’ lobby has been fairly successful at framing the issue on its terms and media has failed in its duty to critically examine the issue. There are always two sides to every story. One needs to hear all sides of every issue and this is a side of the ‘green’ movement that is often unheard 🙂
Steve Jolly
1 year ago
It is increasingly apparent to me that regardless of the truth or fiction of climate change, that the issue is being widely exploited by corporations to hawk their allegedly ‘green products’. For those unfamiliar with marketing practices, most companies specifically target the 18-35 year old demographic because it is during those years that adults form purchasing patterns that will last a lifetime. These days it’s climate change and social justice, which I regard as dubiously as most other people old enough to remember the Reagan administration. When I was younger there were different causes. I remember things like ‘dolphin safe’ tuna or the ever popular advertising that claimed a dollar from every purchase goes to starving children in Africa. This is basic mass marketing 101, which any professor thereof would readily confirm. Of course so called green corporations are just as bad as oil companies and chemical companies and insurance companies and banks. A horse painted green is, alas, still a horse, a pig with lipstick is still a pig, etc. They all bend the truth as far as they legally and believably can to make money and have been doing so since well before any of us were born. You’ll never see a commercial for sausage that takes place in a working sausage factory, and there’s a good reason why. They’re using climate change to push their product to a customer demographic, and bending the truth to do it. That’s basically the whole story. I have zero problem with those who go vegan for animal cruelty reasons. That is a very personal issue and frankly none of my or anybody else’s business. I do have a problem with corporate exploitation in all its various forms, and here we have a textbook example of how corporations bend the truth for profit, compromise the science behind industrial practices, and distort the public perceptions around important issues. The ‘green’ lobby has been fairly successful at framing the issue on its terms and media has failed in its duty to critically examine the issue. There are always two sides to every story. One needs to hear all sides of every issue and this is a side of the ‘green’ movement that is often unheard 🙂
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago
I saw a bumper sticker in New Mexico some years ago that said “If God didn’t want us to eat animals then why did he make them out of meat?”
“So, for once, let us turn the dinner tables, put vegan food under the knife and fork”, lol. Nearly all this chap’s articles are on this subject and are just as lopsided and economic with the truth as the people/industries he takes aim at.
(All the sources he links to are invariably very poor secondary or tertiary ones, for example “you can eat meat from carbon neutral factory” turns out to be the opening six months ago of the worlds one and only carbon neutral site”)
Bottom line with nearly all this type of argument about how some meat production is less harmful then the worst forms of arable farming, is to be more selective about what you eat – don’t just assume all plant based is good, and all meat is bad.
Unfortunately, there no way the world can produce enough meat via this chap’s methods. (Nearly all of which is done on land that at one point would have been forested, just like the Amazon he seems so worried about). If we want to eat the volume of meat we currently do, factory farming has a big role to play. How many people can afford the type of free range, organic, paper wrapped, meat he’s got on offer?
One could write a decent article on the ecological and human harm that some so-called planet friendly food does, (Paul Kingsnorth does a half decent job on here), but thats clearly not the intention here. Ironically it is to make those on the non-tofu side of argument feel just as smug about their food choices for having the good old common sense to not be taken in by all this hippy dippy, woke, nonsense.
Sensible comment, albeit tarnished for me by the insertion of the unnecessary ‘woke’ at the end, seemingly compulsory for comments here. I suggest that we need to revert to the use of meat primarily as a flavouring rather than the main event. It’s remarkable how spices and home-made chicken stock can transform pulses into something a bit special!
To be clearer, I was using the term woke prejoratively with regards to the sort of person who refers to everything as woke these days, including vegetarianism.
The article isn’t meant to persuade or even educate, its just to entrench existing views and choices and make people feel they are in the right and people who ashew meat are a bunch of misguided fools.
To be clearer, I was using the term woke prejoratively with regards to the sort of person who refers to everything as woke these days, including vegetarianism.
The article isn’t meant to persuade or even educate, its just to entrench existing views and choices and make people feel they are in the right and people who ashew meat are a bunch of misguided fools.
That’s not correct: “land…would have been forested”. At least not most places meat is raised. High quality soils make more money growing things. The kind of land beef and sheep are raised on is range land that can’t be used for that. Maybe it’s different in England, but it’s like that all over western America and I believe it’s that way in Argentina as well.
Sensible comment, albeit tarnished for me by the insertion of the unnecessary ‘woke’ at the end, seemingly compulsory for comments here. I suggest that we need to revert to the use of meat primarily as a flavouring rather than the main event. It’s remarkable how spices and home-made chicken stock can transform pulses into something a bit special!
That’s not correct: “land…would have been forested”. At least not most places meat is raised. High quality soils make more money growing things. The kind of land beef and sheep are raised on is range land that can’t be used for that. Maybe it’s different in England, but it’s like that all over western America and I believe it’s that way in Argentina as well.
“So, for once, let us turn the dinner tables, put vegan food under the knife and fork”, lol. Nearly all this chap’s articles are on this subject and are just as lopsided and economic with the truth as the people/industries he takes aim at.
(All the sources he links to are invariably very poor secondary or tertiary ones, for example “you can eat meat from carbon neutral factory” turns out to be the opening six months ago of the worlds one and only carbon neutral site”)
Bottom line with nearly all this type of argument about how some meat production is less harmful then the worst forms of arable farming, is to be more selective about what you eat – don’t just assume all plant based is good, and all meat is bad.
Unfortunately, there no way the world can produce enough meat via this chap’s methods. (Nearly all of which is done on land that at one point would have been forested, just like the Amazon he seems so worried about). If we want to eat the volume of meat we currently do, factory farming has a big role to play. How many people can afford the type of free range, organic, paper wrapped, meat he’s got on offer?
One could write a decent article on the ecological and human harm that some so-called planet friendly food does, (Paul Kingsnorth does a half decent job on here), but thats clearly not the intention here. Ironically it is to make those on the non-tofu side of argument feel just as smug about their food choices for having the good old common sense to not be taken in by all this hippy dippy, woke, nonsense.
“If God didn’t want us to eat people then why did he make them out of meat?”
-Hannibal Lecter
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago
I saw a bumper sticker in New Mexico some years ago that said “If God didn’t want us to eat animals then why did he make them out of meat?”
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago
I also wonder about the difference in acreage required for each. And all that water required for irrigation.
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago
I also wonder about the difference in acreage required for each. And all that water required for irrigation.
Lisa Letendre
1 year ago
As someone who likes to eat a mainly plant- based diet, I steer clear of all soy products exactly for all the reasons stated in the article. I don’t need a main stream news provider to tell me what to think or eat. I can investigate the options myself and make up my own mind. And I don’t appreciate the assumption that if I am concerned about animal welfare that I must be ‘woke’ and therefore someone to be sneered at!
Lisa Letendre
1 year ago
As someone who likes to eat a mainly plant- based diet, I steer clear of all soy products exactly for all the reasons stated in the article. I don’t need a main stream news provider to tell me what to think or eat. I can investigate the options myself and make up my own mind. And I don’t appreciate the assumption that if I am concerned about animal welfare that I must be ‘woke’ and therefore someone to be sneered at!
JR Stoker
1 year ago
I’m a libertarian free market Thatcher worshipping traditionalist, but, sorry Mr L-S, I like tofu, which is easy to cook with, accepts complex flavourings, is affordable, and in this household none goes in the bin. We eat meat as well, though no longer, if we can help it, anything but organic; higher quality, smaller quantities.
Artisanal farmers deserve support, of course, for nutritional and social reasons and I would not wish ever to lambast them. But what is the point of Mr L-S’s rant? Accept there are meat alternatives and some are delicious; sell your own products (and the writer of course has a dog, or at least a cow, in this fight) by extolling their merits, not by going overboard on the negativity.
Mr Lewis-Stempel is a great writer, this is not his best work!
I’ve read that something like 95% of soya grown is pressed for the oil. 75% of that is used in the production of human food. Most of the remainder is used in the production of biofuels. The fibrous remainder after pressing is used for animal feedstuff which humans don’t eat. Cattle especially are very good at turning this fibre into high quality protein. Seems like win-win to me for vegans and meat eaters.
I’ve eaten tofu for well over forty years just because it’s a useful source of protein for a non-meateater, so it’s a bit annoying that it now has political implications as I’m certainly not an ecowarrier.
I’ve read that something like 95% of soya grown is pressed for the oil. 75% of that is used in the production of human food. Most of the remainder is used in the production of biofuels. The fibrous remainder after pressing is used for animal feedstuff which humans don’t eat. Cattle especially are very good at turning this fibre into high quality protein. Seems like win-win to me for vegans and meat eaters.
I’ve eaten tofu for well over forty years just because it’s a useful source of protein for a non-meateater, so it’s a bit annoying that it now has political implications as I’m certainly not an ecowarrier.
JR Stoker
1 year ago
I’m a libertarian free market Thatcher worshipping traditionalist, but, sorry Mr L-S, I like tofu, which is easy to cook with, accepts complex flavourings, is affordable, and in this household none goes in the bin. We eat meat as well, though no longer, if we can help it, anything but organic; higher quality, smaller quantities.
Artisanal farmers deserve support, of course, for nutritional and social reasons and I would not wish ever to lambast them. But what is the point of Mr L-S’s rant? Accept there are meat alternatives and some are delicious; sell your own products (and the writer of course has a dog, or at least a cow, in this fight) by extolling their merits, not by going overboard on the negativity.
Mr Lewis-Stempel is a great writer, this is not his best work!
David Yetter
1 year ago
I would note that going vegan for Lent is actually a very old idea. Well, not quite. The traditional Orthodox Christian fasting discipline for Lent (and most Wednesdays and Fridays, and a few other fasting seasons totalling about 165 days per year), dating back to at least the 4th century, is to eschew all products from vertebrates, along with olive oil and wine (except on weekends when those are permitted). We Orthodox Christians would all be part-time vegans if we couldn’t get shellfish.
Last edited 1 year ago by David Yetter
David Yetter
1 year ago
I would note that going vegan for Lent is actually a very old idea. Well, not quite. The traditional Orthodox Christian fasting discipline for Lent (and most Wednesdays and Fridays, and a few other fasting seasons totalling about 165 days per year), dating back to at least the 4th century, is to eschew all products from vertebrates, along with olive oil and wine (except on weekends when those are permitted). We Orthodox Christians would all be part-time vegans if we couldn’t get shellfish.
Last edited 1 year ago by David Yetter
Alexander Foden-Norris
1 year ago
This is not an UNHERD opinion, it is the dominant narrative of the mainstream media e.g. the Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph and ITV. You can also here this promoted in adverts for fast food chains etc.
Meat eaters are not the victims of wokeness: they are not the victims of this discussion full stop.
Alexander Foden-Norris
1 year ago
This is not an UNHERD opinion, it is the dominant narrative of the mainstream media e.g. the Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph and ITV. You can also here this promoted in adverts for fast food chains etc.
Meat eaters are not the victims of wokeness: they are not the victims of this discussion full stop.
Edward De Beukelaer
1 year ago
It is a pity that we have to argue about the quality of food through airmiles, carbon emissions and laboratory measurements of their contents.
1) you cannot farm properly without mixing animals and crops: the alternative is to use chemicals… (animals also include all the insects and worms etc but all the farm animals have a huge role to play in the cycles)
2) food may well have measurable ingredients and is eaten for its content but what is more important is the narrative of food. The narrative meaning: how it is grown, by whom, how it has been transformed before it ends on your plate and how you (as a person) relate to all this and with whom you prepare and consume the food. Now, most people will think this is wishy washy. In that case you also have to argue that we are just machines made out of bits…. In that case your preference should be all the (sterile) food made and delivered by the agro-industry: we are in a free world, you are free to choose…
Edward De Beukelaer
1 year ago
It is a pity that we have to argue about the quality of food through airmiles, carbon emissions and laboratory measurements of their contents.
1) you cannot farm properly without mixing animals and crops: the alternative is to use chemicals… (animals also include all the insects and worms etc but all the farm animals have a huge role to play in the cycles)
2) food may well have measurable ingredients and is eaten for its content but what is more important is the narrative of food. The narrative meaning: how it is grown, by whom, how it has been transformed before it ends on your plate and how you (as a person) relate to all this and with whom you prepare and consume the food. Now, most people will think this is wishy washy. In that case you also have to argue that we are just machines made out of bits…. In that case your preference should be all the (sterile) food made and delivered by the agro-industry: we are in a free world, you are free to choose…
SomeBloke FromCambridge
1 year ago
Yes, but “saving the planet” is not the goal, it’s just the pretext, offered up to gullible fools. The goal is, of course, same as always, money.
PS: see Mat Briggs if you want to explore the validity of models, such as the Carbon Footprint stuff.
You don’t think the people who supply the food you eat make money? So what, exactly, is your point? We live in a capitalist society- if you think making money is, in itself, an evil, say so. Otherwise, you’re being disingenuous.
PS; if you want to genuinely learn about a concept such as ‘carbon footprint’, it’s intelligent not to just rely on one, outlying voice. That’s how to become a conspiracy nut.
You don’t think the people who supply the food you eat make money? So what, exactly, is your point? We live in a capitalist society- if you think making money is, in itself, an evil, say so. Otherwise, you’re being disingenuous.
PS; if you want to genuinely learn about a concept such as ‘carbon footprint’, it’s intelligent not to just rely on one, outlying voice. That’s how to become a conspiracy nut.
SomeBloke FromCambridge
1 year ago
Yes, but “saving the planet” is not the goal, it’s just the pretext, offered up to gullible fools. The goal is, of course, same as always, money.
PS: see Mat Briggs if you want to explore the validity of models, such as the Carbon Footprint stuff.
John Holland
1 year ago
‘Livestock farmer doesn’t like vegans, shock’.
It’s not that this latest installment of the author’s continuing campaign against the evils of veganism doesn’t include some good points, it’s more the way, in trying to find all and any point against tofu, he fails to come up with a convincing and coherent argument for the carnivorous status quo.
For example, whilst not entirely dismissing climate change and envrironmental destruction generally as a problem (sorry, Unherd fans), Lewis-Stempel fails to seriously engage with the shortcomings of organic meat production; how is artisanal organic local meat production going to feed the world? It isn’t- in which case he needs to compare plant protein production with the same industrial scale intensive farming that produces most meat.
Why put the ecological cost of globalised intensive soy-growing methods against relatively environmentally-friendly small-scale organic livestock farming? It’s an entirely disingenuous comparison. Few, if any, environmental scientists don’t sat we need to decrease our meat consumption, both for its carbon footprint, and for the simple and unavoidable fact that red meat requires vastly more land to produce than plants. Veganism isn’t the point- it’s about the reduction, not elimination.
John Holland
1 year ago
‘Livestock farmer doesn’t like vegans, shock’.
It’s not that this latest installment of the author’s continuing campaign against the evils of veganism doesn’t include some good points, it’s more the way, in trying to find all and any point against tofu, he fails to come up with a convincing and coherent argument for the carnivorous status quo.
For example, whilst not entirely dismissing climate change and envrironmental destruction generally as a problem (sorry, Unherd fans), Lewis-Stempel fails to seriously engage with the shortcomings of organic meat production; how is artisanal organic local meat production going to feed the world? It isn’t- in which case he needs to compare plant protein production with the same industrial scale intensive farming that produces most meat.
Why put the ecological cost of globalised intensive soy-growing methods against relatively environmentally-friendly small-scale organic livestock farming? It’s an entirely disingenuous comparison. Few, if any, environmental scientists don’t sat we need to decrease our meat consumption, both for its carbon footprint, and for the simple and unavoidable fact that red meat requires vastly more land to produce than plants. Veganism isn’t the point- it’s about the reduction, not elimination.
I know nothing of farming and am a frequent visitor to supermarket meat counters. Tonight I’ll dine on a juicy fillet steak that an animal died to put on my plate, and I’ve never knowingly eaten tofu. So this article was truly interesting and informative.
Anything would be informative to someone who “knows nothing”.
Brian Burnell
1 year ago
I know nothing of farming and am a frequent visitor to supermarket meat counters. Tonight I’ll dine on a juicy fillet steak that an animal died to put on my plate, and I’ve never knowingly eaten tofu. So this article was truly interesting and informative.
A very informative article. Thank you. Sadly, it is probably impossible to present this information in any mainstream print or electronic publication.
As you say, tofu is as woke as BLM so you could never print this. The article is great as a fight back but, although I sort of agree with the ideas of the author, it doesn’t really hold water.
Firstly, like everyone else, I know quite a few vegans and always ask them, “Why?”. I haven’t found one yet who talked about the environmental issues. All go a little wet-eyed and say, “Just think about the cruelty to animals in farming.” I am sure there are some very fine, caring, farmers but there are also some very cruel ones.
Secondly, most countries can’t grow all of their own meat and there has to be a lot of cling-filming and transport to get it safely into my stomach. Supermarkets are bringing in meat from all over the world and it might well have been treated to increase the length of time of storage. I am an avid reader of ingredients and ‘preservative’ appears more often than not.
The third thought for me is that the world could go vegan for 50 years and nobody knows what the long-term health implications would be. True, in countries like India veganism has been around for many years but we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu. So to change to a tofu-diet there would be huge education requirements.
When all this was happening and the cities were slowly being tofucated, there would be a black market of farmers shooting rabbits in the countryside until the last rabbit disappeared. Eggs would be selling at $20 each and people would be hiding the hens in their houses. Just like 500 years ago, in fact. Wonderful times!!
Weird, isn’t it? I get a comment box on some articles but not others. It seems entirely random.
Yes I’ve noticed that too!
Same problem here. Very strange.
Same problem here. Very strange.
Do you use more than one input tool? If I don’t get a comment box on my phone I can use my IPad – and vice versa. I just switch between the two.
Unherd does have some bugs. I find reloading the page usually solves the problem. Failing that, restart the computer and fix a gin martini whilst you are waiting.
I don’t have one here, or in any of the preceding articles. UnHerd really needs to fix this.
I “reply” to an existing comment. Don’t bother posting it unless I have something to say. Then refresh and try “join the discussion” once again. Usually works.
Yes I’ve noticed that too!
Do you use more than one input tool? If I don’t get a comment box on my phone I can use my IPad – and vice versa. I just switch between the two.
Unherd does have some bugs. I find reloading the page usually solves the problem. Failing that, restart the computer and fix a gin martini whilst you are waiting.
I don’t have one here, or in any of the preceding articles. UnHerd really needs to fix this.
I “reply” to an existing comment. Don’t bother posting it unless I have something to say. Then refresh and try “join the discussion” once again. Usually works.
“. . . we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu.”
Why not both? Or all of the above? I went vegan after experiencing some health problems. Clogged arteries.
‘here’ in the sentence meant – in India. Yes, you could use both.
‘here’ in the sentence meant – in India. Yes, you could use both.
“countries like India veganism has been around for many years”
No, countries like India have been vegetarian. Milk and milk products are a central part of the diet for everyone. (I believe vegans are not very fond of milk?)
And that’s not the only difference. Vegetarians in India view that as a personal choice, and don’t see themselves as “saving” the world.
And there is a lot of emphasis on cooking vegetarian food well (India has by far the best and most varied veggie food in the world) rather than “converting” non veggies with melodrama and weird “veggie” meat products mimicking meat.
What is tofu? not on my club luncheon menu alongside Partridge and potted shrimps?
Your “partridge surprise” is made of tofu. Oh, the times we live in!
I saw some ‘bacon’ in a supermarket yesterday. It was tofucated bacon. It looked absolutely revolting. Better to eat a slice of tofu without the disguise.
I’d rather eat tongue than tofu, and I’d rather starve than eat tongue.
.
And I tried some recently, as it was marked down.
.
I can confirm that – as well as looking revolting – it tasted totally and utterly revolting.
.
Never again.
.
I’d rather eat tongue than tofu, and I’d rather starve than eat tongue.
.
And I tried some recently, as it was marked down.
.
I can confirm that – as well as looking revolting – it tasted totally and utterly revolting.
.
Never again.
.
Your “partridge surprise” is made of tofu. Oh, the times we live in!
I saw some ‘bacon’ in a supermarket yesterday. It was tofucated bacon. It looked absolutely revolting. Better to eat a slice of tofu without the disguise.
Your opinion is mainstream. The vast majority of people eat meat and ignore the clear and present danger to all creatures on earth by habitat destruction, diseases incubated in factory farms etc.
These are not wonderful times.
No, in India they are vegetarians NOT vegans. Further it has been found a very high proportion of them have a B12 deficiency.
About Indian vegetarianism, traditional Indian farmers weren’t very good at keeping vermin out of their storage buildings and their “vegan” foods were replete with plenty of insects. They didn’t need B12 supplements because they got enough animal protein from the bugs.
A. Tofu a been eaten for centuries in China. Contrary to the assumptions of the Daily Telegraph, it wasn’t invented last week by a 19 year-old trans Guardian-reader in Hackney.
B. Nobody, anywhere, is suggesting an all-tofu diet.
C. India has no major tradition of veganism. You’re thinking of vegetarianism.
D. Rabbits in much of Britain have been decimated by Rabbit Haemorrhagic Disease, so you won’t need to wait for vegans to blame for their demise.
Weird, isn’t it? I get a comment box on some articles but not others. It seems entirely random.
“. . . we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu.”
Why not both? Or all of the above? I went vegan after experiencing some health problems. Clogged arteries.
“countries like India veganism has been around for many years”
No, countries like India have been vegetarian. Milk and milk products are a central part of the diet for everyone. (I believe vegans are not very fond of milk?)
And that’s not the only difference. Vegetarians in India view that as a personal choice, and don’t see themselves as “saving” the world.
And there is a lot of emphasis on cooking vegetarian food well (India has by far the best and most varied veggie food in the world) rather than “converting” non veggies with melodrama and weird “veggie” meat products mimicking meat.
What is tofu? not on my club luncheon menu alongside Partridge and potted shrimps?
Your opinion is mainstream. The vast majority of people eat meat and ignore the clear and present danger to all creatures on earth by habitat destruction, diseases incubated in factory farms etc.
These are not wonderful times.
No, in India they are vegetarians NOT vegans. Further it has been found a very high proportion of them have a B12 deficiency.
About Indian vegetarianism, traditional Indian farmers weren’t very good at keeping vermin out of their storage buildings and their “vegan” foods were replete with plenty of insects. They didn’t need B12 supplements because they got enough animal protein from the bugs.
A. Tofu a been eaten for centuries in China. Contrary to the assumptions of the Daily Telegraph, it wasn’t invented last week by a 19 year-old trans Guardian-reader in Hackney.
B. Nobody, anywhere, is suggesting an all-tofu diet.
C. India has no major tradition of veganism. You’re thinking of vegetarianism.
D. Rabbits in much of Britain have been decimated by Rabbit Haemorrhagic Disease, so you won’t need to wait for vegans to blame for their demise.
The wondrous BBC food calculator reminded me of the way Australia calculates our impressive improvements towards net zero, i.e. fake calculations.
Being a vegetarian, and having lived for years in Asia, I have eaten my fair share of tofu (and even pronounce it dough (as in bread)-fu) but have never, ever bought it for myself: tasteless, insipid texture, and all the issues mentioned in the article. Tempe is another thing altogether – easy to fry up and smother with tomato sauce.
I’m ‘replying’ to your comment because I don’t get a comment box anymore.
Reload the page and if that doesn’t work restart your machine. Sometimes clearing the browser cache seems to work, though that is probably a coincidence.
Reload the page and if that doesn’t work restart your machine. Sometimes clearing the browser cache seems to work, though that is probably a coincidence.
Very good article. Let down slightly by ignoring the excesses of industrial meat farming. Pots anf kettles. (I loathe Tofu)
As you say, tofu is as woke as BLM so you could never print this. The article is great as a fight back but, although I sort of agree with the ideas of the author, it doesn’t really hold water.
Firstly, like everyone else, I know quite a few vegans and always ask them, “Why?”. I haven’t found one yet who talked about the environmental issues. All go a little wet-eyed and say, “Just think about the cruelty to animals in farming.” I am sure there are some very fine, caring, farmers but there are also some very cruel ones.
Secondly, most countries can’t grow all of their own meat and there has to be a lot of cling-filming and transport to get it safely into my stomach. Supermarkets are bringing in meat from all over the world and it might well have been treated to increase the length of time of storage. I am an avid reader of ingredients and ‘preservative’ appears more often than not.
The third thought for me is that the world could go vegan for 50 years and nobody knows what the long-term health implications would be. True, in countries like India veganism has been around for many years but we are talking here about home-grown vegetables and spices, not horrible tofu. So to change to a tofu-diet there would be huge education requirements.
When all this was happening and the cities were slowly being tofucated, there would be a black market of farmers shooting rabbits in the countryside until the last rabbit disappeared. Eggs would be selling at $20 each and people would be hiding the hens in their houses. Just like 500 years ago, in fact. Wonderful times!!
The wondrous BBC food calculator reminded me of the way Australia calculates our impressive improvements towards net zero, i.e. fake calculations.
Being a vegetarian, and having lived for years in Asia, I have eaten my fair share of tofu (and even pronounce it dough (as in bread)-fu) but have never, ever bought it for myself: tasteless, insipid texture, and all the issues mentioned in the article. Tempe is another thing altogether – easy to fry up and smother with tomato sauce.
I’m ‘replying’ to your comment because I don’t get a comment box anymore.
Very good article. Let down slightly by ignoring the excesses of industrial meat farming. Pots anf kettles. (I loathe Tofu)
A very informative article. Thank you. Sadly, it is probably impossible to present this information in any mainstream print or electronic publication.
I await the onslaught of the puritans.
My first thought as well. Eco central must not have sent the email yet.
Remember the last article by this writer? A member I’d never even seen post before clocked 800 upvotes and swamped the comments section.
I suppose even the likes of “800 likes” environmentalists dint like tofu.
I suppose even the likes of “800 likes” environmentalists dint like tofu.
My first thought as well. Eco central must not have sent the email yet.
Remember the last article by this writer? A member I’d never even seen post before clocked 800 upvotes and swamped the comments section.
I await the onslaught of the puritans.
Ummmm…. More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to animals for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk. Get off the tofu hate bandwagon.
Ummmm…. More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to animals for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk. Get off the tofu hate bandwagon.
The planet doesn’t need saving. It’s fine.
And the way to promote your view is to keep talking about a referendum about NetZero. If you think about it, somebody as ridiculous as Sturgeon has become famous by talking about a referendum – a totally trivial one. Referendum, referendum, referendum….
Chris, you are going ever so slightly weird with this!
Do you say referenda or referendums? I go for referendums.
referendi, surely?
In latin, referendum is not a noun.
In latin, referendum is not a noun.
My computer’s spell checker seems to regard both as acceptable. I mean that’s how the English language works right? Just accept everything people use regularly and import a bunch of words from every other language until none of it makes any sense.
Your computer’s spell checker is American.
Your computer’s spell checker is American.
I got out of this by saying referendum, referendum, referendum but it’s not very efficient. If a referendum took place regularly, as in Switzerland, I would get bored and say referenda. Once every few years would be more interesting and would demand referendums
referendi, surely?
My computer’s spell checker seems to regard both as acceptable. I mean that’s how the English language works right? Just accept everything people use regularly and import a bunch of words from every other language until none of it makes any sense.
I got out of this by saying referendum, referendum, referendum but it’s not very efficient. If a referendum took place regularly, as in Switzerland, I would get bored and say referenda. Once every few years would be more interesting and would demand referendums
I love the idea of referenda about scientific issues.
I want a referendum about plate tectonics. Now.
Chris, you are going ever so slightly weird with this!
Do you say referenda or referendums? I go for referendums.
I love the idea of referenda about scientific issues.
I want a referendum about plate tectonics. Now.
It’s the human race that needs saving. The planet will be fine.
I don’t know why people always feel a need to point this out. No one’s suggesting the earth will explode like the death star. They’re talking about ecological damage.
Who decides what constitutes an ‘ecology’?
Who decides the meaning of every word in the English language? I’m not sure. Dictionaries help.
Who decides the meaning of every word in the English language? I’m not sure. Dictionaries help.
Who decides what constitutes an ‘ecology’?
I don’t know why people always feel a need to point this out. No one’s suggesting the earth will explode like the death star. They’re talking about ecological damage.
Oh really….? I don’t think David Attenborough or thousands of climate scientists would agree. Nor would all the people experiencing extreme weather events.
.
I know, I know. Gawd, it’s been cold this last week, no?
.
It has. And?
It has. And?
.
I know, I know. Gawd, it’s been cold this last week, no?
.
No. The planet doesn’t need saving.
Sadly, though, pretty much every inhabitant except humans, livestock, dogs and rats, do.
And the way to promote your view is to keep talking about a referendum about NetZero. If you think about it, somebody as ridiculous as Sturgeon has become famous by talking about a referendum – a totally trivial one. Referendum, referendum, referendum….
It’s the human race that needs saving. The planet will be fine.
Oh really….? I don’t think David Attenborough or thousands of climate scientists would agree. Nor would all the people experiencing extreme weather events.
No. The planet doesn’t need saving.
Sadly, though, pretty much every inhabitant except humans, livestock, dogs and rats, do.
The planet doesn’t need saving. It’s fine.
It is increasingly apparent to me that regardless of the truth or fiction of climate change, that the issue is being widely exploited by corporations to hawk their allegedly ‘green products’. For those unfamiliar with marketing practices, most companies specifically target the 18-35 year old demographic because it is during those years that adults form purchasing patterns that will last a lifetime. These days it’s climate change and social justice, which I regard as dubiously as most other people old enough to remember the Reagan administration. When I was younger there were different causes. I remember things like ‘dolphin safe’ tuna or the ever popular advertising that claimed a dollar from every purchase goes to starving children in Africa. This is basic mass marketing 101, which any professor thereof would readily confirm. Of course so called green corporations are just as bad as oil companies and chemical companies and insurance companies and banks. A horse painted green is, alas, still a horse, a pig with lipstick is still a pig, etc. They all bend the truth as far as they legally and believably can to make money and have been doing so since well before any of us were born. You’ll never see a commercial for sausage that takes place in a working sausage factory, and there’s a good reason why. They’re using climate change to push their product to a customer demographic, and bending the truth to do it. That’s basically the whole story. I have zero problem with those who go vegan for animal cruelty reasons. That is a very personal issue and frankly none of my or anybody else’s business. I do have a problem with corporate exploitation in all its various forms, and here we have a textbook example of how corporations bend the truth for profit, compromise the science behind industrial practices, and distort the public perceptions around important issues. The ‘green’ lobby has been fairly successful at framing the issue on its terms and media has failed in its duty to critically examine the issue. There are always two sides to every story. One needs to hear all sides of every issue and this is a side of the ‘green’ movement that is often unheard 🙂
It is increasingly apparent to me that regardless of the truth or fiction of climate change, that the issue is being widely exploited by corporations to hawk their allegedly ‘green products’. For those unfamiliar with marketing practices, most companies specifically target the 18-35 year old demographic because it is during those years that adults form purchasing patterns that will last a lifetime. These days it’s climate change and social justice, which I regard as dubiously as most other people old enough to remember the Reagan administration. When I was younger there were different causes. I remember things like ‘dolphin safe’ tuna or the ever popular advertising that claimed a dollar from every purchase goes to starving children in Africa. This is basic mass marketing 101, which any professor thereof would readily confirm. Of course so called green corporations are just as bad as oil companies and chemical companies and insurance companies and banks. A horse painted green is, alas, still a horse, a pig with lipstick is still a pig, etc. They all bend the truth as far as they legally and believably can to make money and have been doing so since well before any of us were born. You’ll never see a commercial for sausage that takes place in a working sausage factory, and there’s a good reason why. They’re using climate change to push their product to a customer demographic, and bending the truth to do it. That’s basically the whole story. I have zero problem with those who go vegan for animal cruelty reasons. That is a very personal issue and frankly none of my or anybody else’s business. I do have a problem with corporate exploitation in all its various forms, and here we have a textbook example of how corporations bend the truth for profit, compromise the science behind industrial practices, and distort the public perceptions around important issues. The ‘green’ lobby has been fairly successful at framing the issue on its terms and media has failed in its duty to critically examine the issue. There are always two sides to every story. One needs to hear all sides of every issue and this is a side of the ‘green’ movement that is often unheard 🙂
I saw a bumper sticker in New Mexico some years ago that said “If God didn’t want us to eat animals then why did he make them out of meat?”
“So, for once, let us turn the dinner tables, put vegan food under the knife and fork”, lol. Nearly all this chap’s articles are on this subject and are just as lopsided and economic with the truth as the people/industries he takes aim at.
(All the sources he links to are invariably very poor secondary or tertiary ones, for example “you can eat meat from carbon neutral factory” turns out to be the opening six months ago of the worlds one and only carbon neutral site”)
Bottom line with nearly all this type of argument about how some meat production is less harmful then the worst forms of arable farming, is to be more selective about what you eat – don’t just assume all plant based is good, and all meat is bad.
Unfortunately, there no way the world can produce enough meat via this chap’s methods. (Nearly all of which is done on land that at one point would have been forested, just like the Amazon he seems so worried about). If we want to eat the volume of meat we currently do, factory farming has a big role to play. How many people can afford the type of free range, organic, paper wrapped, meat he’s got on offer?
One could write a decent article on the ecological and human harm that some so-called planet friendly food does, (Paul Kingsnorth does a half decent job on here), but thats clearly not the intention here. Ironically it is to make those on the non-tofu side of argument feel just as smug about their food choices for having the good old common sense to not be taken in by all this hippy dippy, woke, nonsense.
Sensible comment, albeit tarnished for me by the insertion of the unnecessary ‘woke’ at the end, seemingly compulsory for comments here. I suggest that we need to revert to the use of meat primarily as a flavouring rather than the main event. It’s remarkable how spices and home-made chicken stock can transform pulses into something a bit special!
To be clearer, I was using the term woke prejoratively with regards to the sort of person who refers to everything as woke these days, including vegetarianism.
The article isn’t meant to persuade or even educate, its just to entrench existing views and choices and make people feel they are in the right and people who ashew meat are a bunch of misguided fools.
To be clearer, I was using the term woke prejoratively with regards to the sort of person who refers to everything as woke these days, including vegetarianism.
The article isn’t meant to persuade or even educate, its just to entrench existing views and choices and make people feel they are in the right and people who ashew meat are a bunch of misguided fools.
That’s not correct: “land…would have been forested”. At least not most places meat is raised. High quality soils make more money growing things. The kind of land beef and sheep are raised on is range land that can’t be used for that. Maybe it’s different in England, but it’s like that all over western America and I believe it’s that way in Argentina as well.
Sensible comment, albeit tarnished for me by the insertion of the unnecessary ‘woke’ at the end, seemingly compulsory for comments here. I suggest that we need to revert to the use of meat primarily as a flavouring rather than the main event. It’s remarkable how spices and home-made chicken stock can transform pulses into something a bit special!
That’s not correct: “land…would have been forested”. At least not most places meat is raised. High quality soils make more money growing things. The kind of land beef and sheep are raised on is range land that can’t be used for that. Maybe it’s different in England, but it’s like that all over western America and I believe it’s that way in Argentina as well.
“If God didn’t want us to eat people then why did he make them out of meat?”
-Hannibal Lecter
“So, for once, let us turn the dinner tables, put vegan food under the knife and fork”, lol. Nearly all this chap’s articles are on this subject and are just as lopsided and economic with the truth as the people/industries he takes aim at.
(All the sources he links to are invariably very poor secondary or tertiary ones, for example “you can eat meat from carbon neutral factory” turns out to be the opening six months ago of the worlds one and only carbon neutral site”)
Bottom line with nearly all this type of argument about how some meat production is less harmful then the worst forms of arable farming, is to be more selective about what you eat – don’t just assume all plant based is good, and all meat is bad.
Unfortunately, there no way the world can produce enough meat via this chap’s methods. (Nearly all of which is done on land that at one point would have been forested, just like the Amazon he seems so worried about). If we want to eat the volume of meat we currently do, factory farming has a big role to play. How many people can afford the type of free range, organic, paper wrapped, meat he’s got on offer?
One could write a decent article on the ecological and human harm that some so-called planet friendly food does, (Paul Kingsnorth does a half decent job on here), but thats clearly not the intention here. Ironically it is to make those on the non-tofu side of argument feel just as smug about their food choices for having the good old common sense to not be taken in by all this hippy dippy, woke, nonsense.
“If God didn’t want us to eat people then why did he make them out of meat?”
-Hannibal Lecter
I saw a bumper sticker in New Mexico some years ago that said “If God didn’t want us to eat animals then why did he make them out of meat?”
I also wonder about the difference in acreage required for each. And all that water required for irrigation.
I also wonder about the difference in acreage required for each. And all that water required for irrigation.
As someone who likes to eat a mainly plant- based diet, I steer clear of all soy products exactly for all the reasons stated in the article. I don’t need a main stream news provider to tell me what to think or eat. I can investigate the options myself and make up my own mind. And I don’t appreciate the assumption that if I am concerned about animal welfare that I must be ‘woke’ and therefore someone to be sneered at!
As someone who likes to eat a mainly plant- based diet, I steer clear of all soy products exactly for all the reasons stated in the article. I don’t need a main stream news provider to tell me what to think or eat. I can investigate the options myself and make up my own mind. And I don’t appreciate the assumption that if I am concerned about animal welfare that I must be ‘woke’ and therefore someone to be sneered at!
I’m a libertarian free market Thatcher worshipping traditionalist, but, sorry Mr L-S, I like tofu, which is easy to cook with, accepts complex flavourings, is affordable, and in this household none goes in the bin. We eat meat as well, though no longer, if we can help it, anything but organic; higher quality, smaller quantities.
Artisanal farmers deserve support, of course, for nutritional and social reasons and I would not wish ever to lambast them. But what is the point of Mr L-S’s rant? Accept there are meat alternatives and some are delicious; sell your own products (and the writer of course has a dog, or at least a cow, in this fight) by extolling their merits, not by going overboard on the negativity.
Mr Lewis-Stempel is a great writer, this is not his best work!
I’ve read that something like 95% of soya grown is pressed for the oil. 75% of that is used in the production of human food. Most of the remainder is used in the production of biofuels. The fibrous remainder after pressing is used for animal feedstuff which humans don’t eat. Cattle especially are very good at turning this fibre into high quality protein. Seems like win-win to me for vegans and meat eaters.
As a fully paid up “Gammon” I’ve sometimes though that Tofus would be a good name for vegans on account of them being pale, soft and pasty.
LOL. I’m not a vegan (though some of my best friends are)
LOL. I’m not a vegan (though some of my best friends are)
I’ve eaten tofu for well over forty years just because it’s a useful source of protein for a non-meateater, so it’s a bit annoying that it now has political implications as I’m certainly not an ecowarrier.
I’ve read that something like 95% of soya grown is pressed for the oil. 75% of that is used in the production of human food. Most of the remainder is used in the production of biofuels. The fibrous remainder after pressing is used for animal feedstuff which humans don’t eat. Cattle especially are very good at turning this fibre into high quality protein. Seems like win-win to me for vegans and meat eaters.
As a fully paid up “Gammon” I’ve sometimes though that Tofus would be a good name for vegans on account of them being pale, soft and pasty.
I’ve eaten tofu for well over forty years just because it’s a useful source of protein for a non-meateater, so it’s a bit annoying that it now has political implications as I’m certainly not an ecowarrier.
I’m a libertarian free market Thatcher worshipping traditionalist, but, sorry Mr L-S, I like tofu, which is easy to cook with, accepts complex flavourings, is affordable, and in this household none goes in the bin. We eat meat as well, though no longer, if we can help it, anything but organic; higher quality, smaller quantities.
Artisanal farmers deserve support, of course, for nutritional and social reasons and I would not wish ever to lambast them. But what is the point of Mr L-S’s rant? Accept there are meat alternatives and some are delicious; sell your own products (and the writer of course has a dog, or at least a cow, in this fight) by extolling their merits, not by going overboard on the negativity.
Mr Lewis-Stempel is a great writer, this is not his best work!
I would note that going vegan for Lent is actually a very old idea. Well, not quite. The traditional Orthodox Christian fasting discipline for Lent (and most Wednesdays and Fridays, and a few other fasting seasons totalling about 165 days per year), dating back to at least the 4th century, is to eschew all products from vertebrates, along with olive oil and wine (except on weekends when those are permitted). We Orthodox Christians would all be part-time vegans if we couldn’t get shellfish.
I would note that going vegan for Lent is actually a very old idea. Well, not quite. The traditional Orthodox Christian fasting discipline for Lent (and most Wednesdays and Fridays, and a few other fasting seasons totalling about 165 days per year), dating back to at least the 4th century, is to eschew all products from vertebrates, along with olive oil and wine (except on weekends when those are permitted). We Orthodox Christians would all be part-time vegans if we couldn’t get shellfish.
This is not an UNHERD opinion, it is the dominant narrative of the mainstream media e.g. the Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph and ITV. You can also here this promoted in adverts for fast food chains etc.
Meat eaters are not the victims of wokeness: they are not the victims of this discussion full stop.
This is not an UNHERD opinion, it is the dominant narrative of the mainstream media e.g. the Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph and ITV. You can also here this promoted in adverts for fast food chains etc.
Meat eaters are not the victims of wokeness: they are not the victims of this discussion full stop.
It is a pity that we have to argue about the quality of food through airmiles, carbon emissions and laboratory measurements of their contents.
1) you cannot farm properly without mixing animals and crops: the alternative is to use chemicals… (animals also include all the insects and worms etc but all the farm animals have a huge role to play in the cycles)
2) food may well have measurable ingredients and is eaten for its content but what is more important is the narrative of food. The narrative meaning: how it is grown, by whom, how it has been transformed before it ends on your plate and how you (as a person) relate to all this and with whom you prepare and consume the food. Now, most people will think this is wishy washy. In that case you also have to argue that we are just machines made out of bits…. In that case your preference should be all the (sterile) food made and delivered by the agro-industry: we are in a free world, you are free to choose…
It is a pity that we have to argue about the quality of food through airmiles, carbon emissions and laboratory measurements of their contents.
1) you cannot farm properly without mixing animals and crops: the alternative is to use chemicals… (animals also include all the insects and worms etc but all the farm animals have a huge role to play in the cycles)
2) food may well have measurable ingredients and is eaten for its content but what is more important is the narrative of food. The narrative meaning: how it is grown, by whom, how it has been transformed before it ends on your plate and how you (as a person) relate to all this and with whom you prepare and consume the food. Now, most people will think this is wishy washy. In that case you also have to argue that we are just machines made out of bits…. In that case your preference should be all the (sterile) food made and delivered by the agro-industry: we are in a free world, you are free to choose…
Yes, but “saving the planet” is not the goal, it’s just the pretext, offered up to gullible fools. The goal is, of course, same as always, money.
PS: see Mat Briggs if you want to explore the validity of models, such as the Carbon Footprint stuff.
You don’t think the people who supply the food you eat make money? So what, exactly, is your point? We live in a capitalist society- if you think making money is, in itself, an evil, say so. Otherwise, you’re being disingenuous.
PS; if you want to genuinely learn about a concept such as ‘carbon footprint’, it’s intelligent not to just rely on one, outlying voice. That’s how to become a conspiracy nut.
You don’t think the people who supply the food you eat make money? So what, exactly, is your point? We live in a capitalist society- if you think making money is, in itself, an evil, say so. Otherwise, you’re being disingenuous.
PS; if you want to genuinely learn about a concept such as ‘carbon footprint’, it’s intelligent not to just rely on one, outlying voice. That’s how to become a conspiracy nut.
Yes, but “saving the planet” is not the goal, it’s just the pretext, offered up to gullible fools. The goal is, of course, same as always, money.
PS: see Mat Briggs if you want to explore the validity of models, such as the Carbon Footprint stuff.
‘Livestock farmer doesn’t like vegans, shock’.
It’s not that this latest installment of the author’s continuing campaign against the evils of veganism doesn’t include some good points, it’s more the way, in trying to find all and any point against tofu, he fails to come up with a convincing and coherent argument for the carnivorous status quo.
For example, whilst not entirely dismissing climate change and envrironmental destruction generally as a problem (sorry, Unherd fans), Lewis-Stempel fails to seriously engage with the shortcomings of organic meat production; how is artisanal organic local meat production going to feed the world? It isn’t- in which case he needs to compare plant protein production with the same industrial scale intensive farming that produces most meat.
Why put the ecological cost of globalised intensive soy-growing methods against relatively environmentally-friendly small-scale organic livestock farming? It’s an entirely disingenuous comparison. Few, if any, environmental scientists don’t sat we need to decrease our meat consumption, both for its carbon footprint, and for the simple and unavoidable fact that red meat requires vastly more land to produce than plants. Veganism isn’t the point- it’s about the reduction, not elimination.
‘Livestock farmer doesn’t like vegans, shock’.
It’s not that this latest installment of the author’s continuing campaign against the evils of veganism doesn’t include some good points, it’s more the way, in trying to find all and any point against tofu, he fails to come up with a convincing and coherent argument for the carnivorous status quo.
For example, whilst not entirely dismissing climate change and envrironmental destruction generally as a problem (sorry, Unherd fans), Lewis-Stempel fails to seriously engage with the shortcomings of organic meat production; how is artisanal organic local meat production going to feed the world? It isn’t- in which case he needs to compare plant protein production with the same industrial scale intensive farming that produces most meat.
Why put the ecological cost of globalised intensive soy-growing methods against relatively environmentally-friendly small-scale organic livestock farming? It’s an entirely disingenuous comparison. Few, if any, environmental scientists don’t sat we need to decrease our meat consumption, both for its carbon footprint, and for the simple and unavoidable fact that red meat requires vastly more land to produce than plants. Veganism isn’t the point- it’s about the reduction, not elimination.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CltTfy4IfVd/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
I know nothing of farming and am a frequent visitor to supermarket meat counters. Tonight I’ll dine on a juicy fillet steak that an animal died to put on my plate, and I’ve never knowingly eaten tofu. So this article was truly interesting and informative.
Anything would be informative to someone who “knows nothing”.
Anything would be informative to someone who “knows nothing”.
I know nothing of farming and am a frequent visitor to supermarket meat counters. Tonight I’ll dine on a juicy fillet steak that an animal died to put on my plate, and I’ve never knowingly eaten tofu. So this article was truly interesting and informative.