A false narrative about Northern Ireland is in danger of becoming the accepted wisdom. If you believe the headlines, the United Kingdom is on the verge of breaking up. Scotland is on the brink of another referendum; Wales is wobbling; Northern Ireland, embroiled in the insoluble tangle of the Protocol, is looking again at the logic of Irish unity. September’s census revealed that Catholic numbers have overtaken Protestants in Northern Ireland; Sinn Féin will soon be in power on both sides of the Irish border. A United Ireland is now inevitable.
This couldn’t be further from the truth. Granted, opinion polls in Scotland show that voters there could favour independence in a referendum as early as autumn next year. However, Northern Ireland — geographically the furthest away of the UK’s wayward offspring — is likely to emerge from Britain’s ongoing political upheavals as the unloved child that clings with grim determination to its detached motherland.
Who, then, is to blame for this misleading narrative? Mary Lou McDonald, the leader of Sinn Féin, has called repeatedly for a border poll on the issue of a united Ireland. Tipped to be Ireland’s next Taoiseach, her success in the Republic of Ireland’s 2020 general election — in which her party won the popular vote — has brought the question of a referendum to the forefront of Irish politics.
Even so, a vote would be difficult to justify. Under the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, a plebiscite can be called at the discretion of the Secretary of State when he or she believes that “a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland”. That day is unlikely to come soon: an overwhelming majority of opinion polls in Northern Ireland suggest that a referendum proposing a united Ireland today would be decisively defeated.
That there are now more Catholics than Protestants in the region won’t tip the balance. The old sectarian assumption that all Catholics would vote to end the border was discredited long ago: many Catholics are prospering in Northern Ireland and, for now, wish to retain the status quo. They may hold traditional, even tribal, views on the border, but the peace dividend — the improved economy — has benefited them.
McDonald senses hesitation from nationalists on both sides of the border, and has toned down her rhetoric as a result. After the 2020 election, she called for an urgent referendum from the British government. But her demands have since become more nuanced. At Sinn Féin’s recent Ard Fheis (annual conference) in Dublin earlier this month, she more modestly requested a “Citizens’ Assembly on Unity”. Now is the time, she bellowed, “to plan for constitutional change”. It was hardly a radical message: Citizens’ Assemblies are a handy way to delay decisions on politically-explosive issues. Her plan for the time being is to kick the holy grail down the road.
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SubscribeIs it any wonder that many Catholics in Northern Ireland are quite content with the status quo?
It is the enormous English subsidies that have made this possible.
If there is to be a referendum, it should be an English one, with three simple questions.
1: Do you wish to keep subsiding Northern Ireland?
2: Do you wish to keep subsidising Scotland?
3: Do you wish to keep subsidising Wales?
For far too long this triumvirate of greedy spongers have leached off England. It is time to end this grotesque farce.The ‘Union’ is an anachronism and NOW it is time to move on.
.
What about Cornwall?
Nope!
They really need the cash: fishing wrecked, mining finished, no ‘grockles’* for seventh months of the year, and unlike others they are NOT continually whining on about their exceptionalism!
(*Tourists)
“Whining about their exceptionalism”? Yer ‘havin’ larf maye init? The English and their puppet masters the Amerucans are the deluded who claim exceptionalism!
Nice bit of whataboutery there.
Actually that’s not true, it was just desperate and embarrassing.
Nice bit of whataboutery there.
Actually that’s not true, it was just desperate and embarrassing.
Haven’t they found Lithium in commercial quantity?
Apparently yes, down in the south east.
Perhaps nature is finally going to ‘smile on Ireland’ having previously denied her both coal and iron?
But, Charles, Old Chap, Mother Nature has consistently smiled on Ireland – look at wonderful, all-year round,climate…
But, Charles, Old Chap, Mother Nature has consistently smiled on Ireland – look at wonderful, all-year round,climate…
Lithium is a very abundant metal. The question is the cost of extraction.
Apparently yes, down in the south east.
Perhaps nature is finally going to ‘smile on Ireland’ having previously denied her both coal and iron?
Lithium is a very abundant metal. The question is the cost of extraction.
“Whining about their exceptionalism”? Yer ‘havin’ larf maye init? The English and their puppet masters the Amerucans are the deluded who claim exceptionalism!
Haven’t they found Lithium in commercial quantity?
It will join the Federation of Celtic States ie Irl+NI+Scot+Wales: maybe Britany as well? All within the EU of course. Why not?
Because they have no money, any of them.
They all have resources, decent hardworking people and a generous spirit.. Iteland had nothing when it gained its independence in 1922 but look at us now! 2nd highest GDP pc on the planet! Few natural resources but, to quote a great Irishman Wilde: we have (nothing but) our genius (to declare).. with massive US and EU support (and huge compensation we will wring out of you guys) we will look after our Celtic bothers as well.
You had nothing till the EU money began to flow in the early to mid ’90s.
It depends whether you use the CIA or UYMF to work out GDP per capita. Irelands high GDP per capita is predicted on large internet corporations like Apple pretending all their invoices for goods in Western Europe are based in Ireland. Where does the money then go to bearing in mind the Irish Gevernment is loath to tax the profits?
And extreme religious bigots still singing about slaughtering each other. They’ll never let it go.
You had nothing till the EU money began to flow in the early to mid ’90s.
It depends whether you use the CIA or UYMF to work out GDP per capita. Irelands high GDP per capita is predicted on large internet corporations like Apple pretending all their invoices for goods in Western Europe are based in Ireland. Where does the money then go to bearing in mind the Irish Gevernment is loath to tax the profits?
And extreme religious bigots still singing about slaughtering each other. They’ll never let it go.
They all have resources, decent hardworking people and a generous spirit.. Iteland had nothing when it gained its independence in 1922 but look at us now! 2nd highest GDP pc on the planet! Few natural resources but, to quote a great Irishman Wilde: we have (nothing but) our genius (to declare).. with massive US and EU support (and huge compensation we will wring out of you guys) we will look after our Celtic bothers as well.
It won’t happen Liam. You are peddling a racist fantasy. Why on earth would any sane Breton or Welshman or Cornishman want an association with you just because you believe in some mystical unity of the celtic peoples?
Because they have no money, any of them.
It won’t happen Liam. You are peddling a racist fantasy. Why on earth would any sane Breton or Welshman or Cornishman want an association with you just because you believe in some mystical unity of the celtic peoples?
Nope!
They really need the cash: fishing wrecked, mining finished, no ‘grockles’* for seventh months of the year, and unlike others they are NOT continually whining on about their exceptionalism!
(*Tourists)
It will join the Federation of Celtic States ie Irl+NI+Scot+Wales: maybe Britany as well? All within the EU of course. Why not?
Well said.
Much to my surprise, despite being a N Irish person from the pro united Ireland community, I keep agreeing with Charles. Even though there’s a good chance that he or one of his chums may have roughed me up at a checkpoint somewhere in times gone past. No hard feelings lol.
I’ve long thought that the best way to bring everyone in NI to their senses is for both Dublin and London to very publicly wash their hands of the place and for both to say: “you’re on your own lads”.
Until that happens, local politics in NI will remain mired in immaturity.
NI politics always have a safety net – if they can’t agree, there’s always the option of passing the ball to the adults in London, America, Dublin, and letting them sort it out.
In that way, local NI politicians can indulge in purist posturing about trivial tribal issues until the cows come home, as they know they do not have ultimate responsibility.
A joint declaration of non-interest by England and Ireland would be the best thing ever to happen the North of Ireland.
And let’s face it folks, the majority of people in England and the S of Ireland couldn’t give a rat’s backside about the place anyway.
And I say that as someone who was born in and who lives in NI.
Here is my solution for the place, my short blog on “Vennland”, make of it what you will:
“Do you consider that Unionism and Nationalism both are honourable and sincerely-held positions, equally worthy of respect? Take a bow if you do. I’ve met very few people who genuinely believe that. At best, they’ll pay lip-service to the notion of equality of aspiration, while secretly being (even slightly) contemptuous about one side or the other.
The trick is to find a structure which accommodates Irish-ness and British-ness without degenerating into the usual winners and losers narrative. Predictably, there has been no creative thinking about this at all. Ever. And the winners and losers game continues to this day.”
See blog: https://vennland.blogspot.com/2021/02/uladhnua.html
I enjoyed your blog, it’s certainly thinking “outside the box” as the millennials and their ilk say today!
Might I suggest the quadrants on the flag should be green or at least two them should be.
I liked your quip about Donegal, even the masochistic Cistercians nearly gave it a miss! Although I gather Mr Adams is happy enough in Gortahork! Cashelnagor Station (closed 1932) is also to be recommended.
It might be tricky getting Dublin to agree to sharing power with Galway and the “Wild West” though.
My alternative would be to dump Northern Ireland on the EU as a completely independent Republic, possibly called it Hibernia. If it needed cash this would be administered by German Gauleiters on an equitable basis, and the EU could then grab all the credit for severing the Gordian knot that is forever Anglo-Irish politics.
You may have a point.. pragmatism may defeat both of those two backward looking aspirations.. however, I believe those aspirations are largely boring to the younger generation.. they have more important things on their minds like living, loving, laughing and being happy! Good on them!
I enjoyed your blog, it’s certainly thinking “outside the box” as the millennials and their ilk say today!
Might I suggest the quadrants on the flag should be green or at least two them should be.
I liked your quip about Donegal, even the masochistic Cistercians nearly gave it a miss! Although I gather Mr Adams is happy enough in Gortahork! Cashelnagor Station (closed 1932) is also to be recommended.
It might be tricky getting Dublin to agree to sharing power with Galway and the “Wild West” though.
My alternative would be to dump Northern Ireland on the EU as a completely independent Republic, possibly called it Hibernia. If it needed cash this would be administered by German Gauleiters on an equitable basis, and the EU could then grab all the credit for severing the Gordian knot that is forever Anglo-Irish politics.
You may have a point.. pragmatism may defeat both of those two backward looking aspirations.. however, I believe those aspirations are largely boring to the younger generation.. they have more important things on their minds like living, loving, laughing and being happy! Good on them!
Having looted all 3 nations England now complains that it has to subsidise them! And even that is in question: the subsidies I mean. How they are calculated has a huge effect on the figures. The is a tendancy for income from the 3 states to be ‘British’ like North Sea oil.
NI’s new found prosperity is founded on its having both UK and EU status.. an option open to the entire UK but eschewed in the name of a mythical total “sovereignty”. Now GB is fast going down the economic tubes and it is that that will tip the scales in favour of independence in Scotland and Reunification in Ireland. The NI solution will involve federalism and indeed that Federation can include Scotland (and Wales?). Why not.. and let England rejoice in its complete freedom from all its burdens: the EU, Scotland, NI and Wales.. free at last to enjoy its economic superiority while its poor unfortunate neighbours try desperately to survive without mother England.
You can then set about expelling all immigrants and settle back into your deckchairs on the SS Britannic or its sister ship whichever fits the bill. Happy days ahead for WASP Blighty I’ll wager! It’ll be a ‘short’ though!
“Having looted all 3 nations England now complains…”
Frankly that is nonsense, and what in fact was there to LOOT?
Why do you think the Romans couldn’t be bothered with Ireland or most of Scotland? They only subdued Wales because it was a strategic imperative to protect the Cheshire Plain and the lower Severn Valley.
Sadly “biting the hand that feeds them” seems to be Celtic obsession these days.
ps: I thought you were out in Lusitania in your camper van? Have you returned?
Nope: but not yet in Lusitania: still in Hispañola en route as you Normans might say? Is parliament still opened using French?
The Romans lost an entire legion in Scotland – so much for their lack of interest in the place! They were too scared to try their luck in Ireland and too soft to survive the weather – hence their name for Ireland: Hibernia ie Winter! No grapes! ..except sour ones, clearly!
The indigenous population of England (Celtic Britons) were driven into Wales so what now constitutes the “English” is a mishmash of Germans, Danes and Frenchmen! It’s odd that you dislike your fellow countrymen so much and ptetend to be indigenous.
The Gaelic name for Wales translates to Little Britain and that for England translates to Saxony! All a bit confused I think..
Yes all very confusing!
Surely you don’t believe all that tosh about the Picts or whatever they were called (definitely NOT the Scotch) destroying LEGIO IX HISPANA? The late Rosemary Sutcliffe wrote a wonderful book about it, but it was all fiction.
Actually, according to Juvenal the Romans did have a crack at Hibernia/Ireland. Scholarly opinion now thinks it was probably a ‘smash and grab ‘ raid rather like the one executed by the Northumbrian King Ecfrith in the 7th century.
I estimate you are now choosing the former Roman Province of Tarraconensis…you lucky chap! If perchance you are near Caceres, make sure visit the great Roman bridge across the Tagus, about 40 miles to the NW at ALCANTARA. It is the finest in existence and certainly worth ‘going to see and seeing’ unlike say the Giant’s Causeway.
From there you are almost on the Portuguese frontier, so cross country to Castelo Branco and thus the motorway system.
What a stitch.
Yes all very confusing!
Surely you don’t believe all that tosh about the Picts or whatever they were called (definitely NOT the Scotch) destroying LEGIO IX HISPANA? The late Rosemary Sutcliffe wrote a wonderful book about it, but it was all fiction.
Actually, according to Juvenal the Romans did have a crack at Hibernia/Ireland. Scholarly opinion now thinks it was probably a ‘smash and grab ‘ raid rather like the one executed by the Northumbrian King Ecfrith in the 7th century.
I estimate you are now choosing the former Roman Province of Tarraconensis…you lucky chap! If perchance you are near Caceres, make sure visit the great Roman bridge across the Tagus, about 40 miles to the NW at ALCANTARA. It is the finest in existence and certainly worth ‘going to see and seeing’ unlike say the Giant’s Causeway.
From there you are almost on the Portuguese frontier, so cross country to Castelo Branco and thus the motorway system.
What a stitch.
My father is from Skibbereen Cork and I’m American. Im of English ancestry on my mother’s side. A lot of Americans don’t acknowledge the United States darker history but I do.
Some English people love to tout how benevolent they are or were to the conquered and continue to be to still occupied areas of their former empire.
You seem to suggest that the Irish in particular are ingrates. They should only be grateful for the benevolent generosity of the English today.
You lament England’s “burden” in Ireland.
Fact is the English forget the history of how they brought about this state of affairs to begin with.
England treated all their colonial subjects like second class citizens in their home countries including their own in North America.
They ran oppressive regimes all over the world including in Ireland, which no one can deny.
This apartheid regime run in Ireland has much to do with the economic situation the Irish public faced upon independence.
The northern apartheid regime, sponsored by England, after 1922 had much to do with how things went there.
Had the British treated their colonial subjects decently there wouldn’t have been revolutions against them in North America, the Middle East, India, Africa etc.
The English broke all these places, mostly because of massive discrimination, Ireland is no exception, so talking about their benevolent rule is like white Southern Americans complaining about African American poverty.
The root of the problem in Ulster was a massive and brutal resettlement operation and discrimination campaign perpetrated by the English.
To say that those that object to English rule are “biting the hand that feeds them” dismisses all of this either on purpose or through ignorance.
The English should acknowledge they broke it and accept that they should be the ones to try and fix it by whatever means both sides will accept in N.I., not dismiss it as a Northern Irish problem they had nothing to do with creating.
I like English people very much but I’m always flabbergasted when they talk as if they don’t know this history at all.
Many of the “burdens” of those that had power are of their own making.
What an astonishingly naive comment, where did you learn such tosh?
Let me guess……..USA?
Yes USA. We rebelled against English rule for good reason.
Why don’t you ask someone from India, South Africa, Pakistan, Australia even, and a host of other places about benevolent English colonialism.
Some English people acknowledge the truth.
You guys sound like you can’t.
Naive
England’s treating colonials like hell is so complex.
Yes USA. We rebelled against English rule for good reason.
Why don’t you ask someone from India, South Africa, Pakistan, Australia even, and a host of other places about benevolent English colonialism.
Some English people acknowledge the truth.
You guys sound like you can’t.
Naive
England’s treating colonials like hell is so complex.
“I like English people very much but I’m always flabbergasted when they talk as if they don’t know this history at all.”
We are being lectured in our own history by a PlasticPaddy.
It may come as news to you, but my English peasant ancestors were treated no better than any other peasant – Glad to help
Thanks
My English peasant ancestors rebelled against being treated like crap over here.
Sorry, English government treating their own like crap doesn’t absolve them of treating others that.
Look at it this way, the natives of North America can’t complain – because you lot of heroic rebels exterminated them.
Fair enough
Fair enough
Look at it this way, the natives of North America can’t complain – because you lot of heroic rebels exterminated them.
Thanks
My English peasant ancestors rebelled against being treated like crap over here.
Sorry, English government treating their own like crap doesn’t absolve them of treating others that.
It really is strange that if the British Empire/Commonwealth was so awful why do all the former colonies sign upto the Commonwealth? Ex-colonies such as Namibia, Mocam-bique and Rwanda (former German and Portuguese colonies ) decided to join the Commonwealth.at the end of the 20th Century.
The only former colonies which did not join were Myanmar, Aden and South Yemen plus the WWI mandated territories (Iraq, Jordan & Palestine)
Trade and military arrangements.
In fact it’s the basic relationship Britain had with the 13 American colonies before 1765. They were essentially independent dominions with allegiance and special trade and military arrangements with the UK.
The Stamp Act of 1765 changed all that.
Trade and military arrangements of essentially equal entities as stated in the Balfour declaration “in no way subordinate to each other” makes sense. Direct rule at any time was a no go.
.
.
So I would say the Empire and the Commonwealth are two totally different things.
If the Empire had expanded worldwide along the lines of the original relationship the UK had with the 13 colonies (a commonwealth relationship) the American Revolution and others wouldn’t have happened.
Trade and military arrangements.
In fact it’s the basic relationship Britain had with the 13 American colonies before 1765. They were essentially independent dominions with allegiance and special trade and military arrangements with the UK.
The Stamp Act of 1765 changed all that.
Trade and military arrangements of essentially equal entities as stated in the Balfour declaration “in no way subordinate to each other” makes sense. Direct rule at any time was a no go.
So I would say the Empire and the Commonwealth are two totally different things.
If the Empire had expanded worldwide along the lines of the original relationship the UK had with the 13 colonies (a commonwealth relationship) the American Revolution and others wouldn’t have happened.
What an astonishingly naive comment, where did you learn such tosh?
Let me guess……..USA?
“I like English people very much but I’m always flabbergasted when they talk as if they don’t know this history at all.”
We are being lectured in our own history by a PlasticPaddy.
It may come as news to you, but my English peasant ancestors were treated no better than any other peasant – Glad to help
It really is strange that if the British Empire/Commonwealth was so awful why do all the former colonies sign upto the Commonwealth? Ex-colonies such as Namibia, Mocam-bique and Rwanda (former German and Portuguese colonies ) decided to join the Commonwealth.at the end of the 20th Century.
The only former colonies which did not join were Myanmar, Aden and South Yemen plus the WWI mandated territories (Iraq, Jordan & Palestine)
Nope: but not yet in Lusitania: still in Hispañola en route as you Normans might say? Is parliament still opened using French?
The Romans lost an entire legion in Scotland – so much for their lack of interest in the place! They were too scared to try their luck in Ireland and too soft to survive the weather – hence their name for Ireland: Hibernia ie Winter! No grapes! ..except sour ones, clearly!
The indigenous population of England (Celtic Britons) were driven into Wales so what now constitutes the “English” is a mishmash of Germans, Danes and Frenchmen! It’s odd that you dislike your fellow countrymen so much and ptetend to be indigenous.
The Gaelic name for Wales translates to Little Britain and that for England translates to Saxony! All a bit confused I think..
My father is from Skibbereen Cork and I’m American. Im of English ancestry on my mother’s side. A lot of Americans don’t acknowledge the United States darker history but I do.
Some English people love to tout how benevolent they are or were to the conquered and continue to be to still occupied areas of their former empire.
You seem to suggest that the Irish in particular are ingrates. They should only be grateful for the benevolent generosity of the English today.
You lament England’s “burden” in Ireland.
Fact is the English forget the history of how they brought about this state of affairs to begin with.
England treated all their colonial subjects like second class citizens in their home countries including their own in North America.
They ran oppressive regimes all over the world including in Ireland, which no one can deny.
This apartheid regime run in Ireland has much to do with the economic situation the Irish public faced upon independence.
The northern apartheid regime, sponsored by England, after 1922 had much to do with how things went there.
Had the British treated their colonial subjects decently there wouldn’t have been revolutions against them in North America, the Middle East, India, Africa etc.
The English broke all these places, mostly because of massive discrimination, Ireland is no exception, so talking about their benevolent rule is like white Southern Americans complaining about African American poverty.
The root of the problem in Ulster was a massive and brutal resettlement operation and discrimination campaign perpetrated by the English.
To say that those that object to English rule are “biting the hand that feeds them” dismisses all of this either on purpose or through ignorance.
The English should acknowledge they broke it and accept that they should be the ones to try and fix it by whatever means both sides will accept in N.I., not dismiss it as a Northern Irish problem they had nothing to do with creating.
I like English people very much but I’m always flabbergasted when they talk as if they don’t know this history at all.
Many of the “burdens” of those that had power are of their own making.
“Having looted all 3 nations England now complains…”
Frankly that is nonsense, and what in fact was there to LOOT?
Why do you think the Romans couldn’t be bothered with Ireland or most of Scotland? They only subdued Wales because it was a strategic imperative to protect the Cheshire Plain and the lower Severn Valley.
Sadly “biting the hand that feeds them” seems to be Celtic obsession these days.
ps: I thought you were out in Lusitania in your camper van? Have you returned?
Never mind Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. London and the South-East subsidises the rest of England. So – home rule for the Home Counties?
Mr. Stanhope is not alone in his way of looking at things. In fact, I would say he was a typical Englishman (and that’s not a compliment, in this context), who sees sovereignty and patriotism purely in terms of pounds and pence. Successful human relationships (and the nation-state is a form of human relationship) are not founded on purely mercenary terms. The rest of the world understands this. For Englishmen like Mr. Stanhope, this is still a deep mystery.
The only answer to that is what that great Imperialist Cecil Rhodes said:
“Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life”.
Who can seriously dispute that?
Or alternatively this perhaps says it better: “This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.”
Very few: only enlightened, educated, decent and intelligent folk! …and think how few in mumber they are!
Very few: only enlightened, educated, decent and intelligent folk! …and think how few in mumber they are!
I believe it stems from thinking himself Big… and Trying too had.. put together you get Big o’ try..
The only answer to that is what that great Imperialist Cecil Rhodes said:
“Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life”.
Who can seriously dispute that?
Or alternatively this perhaps says it better: “This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.”
I believe it stems from thinking himself Big… and Trying too had.. put together you get Big o’ try..
Oh go away. England and Scotland’s most glorious days were both in union as Britain. Stop being divisive with your brethren over a bit of government spending. What is England anymore anyway? I have a lot more in common with the Scots and Irish than Muslims in Birmingham or blacks in London.
I was simply replying to the grotesque racism and divisiveness of Sturgeon and her Scotch brethren. Look at the appalling business of University fees for English students for example, or have you NOT being paying attention?
As for your asinine remark, “what is England “ this is what it is:-
“This royal throne of kings, this sceptered isle, This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, This other Eden, demi-paradise, This fortress built by Nature for herself Against infection and the hand of war, This happy breed of men, this little world, This precious stone set in the silver sea, Which serves it in the office of a wall Or as a moat defensive to a house, Against the envy of less happier lands,–This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.”
I must ask where did you go to school to make such a frankly puerile remark, or are you really ‘one of them’?
12 hour delay imposed by the Censor to avoid controversy.
12 hour delay imposed by the Censor to avoid controversy.
I was simply replying to the grotesque racism and divisiveness of Sturgeon and her Scotch brethren. Look at the appalling business of University fees for English students for example, or have you NOT being paying attention?
As for your asinine remark, “what is England “ this is what it is:-
“This royal throne of kings, this sceptered isle, This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, This other Eden, demi-paradise, This fortress built by Nature for herself Against infection and the hand of war, This happy breed of men, this little world, This precious stone set in the silver sea, Which serves it in the office of a wall Or as a moat defensive to a house, Against the envy of less happier lands,–This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.”
I must ask where did you go to school to make such a frankly puerile remark, or are you really ‘one of them’?
What about Cornwall?
Well said.
Much to my surprise, despite being a N Irish person from the pro united Ireland community, I keep agreeing with Charles. Even though there’s a good chance that he or one of his chums may have roughed me up at a checkpoint somewhere in times gone past. No hard feelings lol.
I’ve long thought that the best way to bring everyone in NI to their senses is for both Dublin and London to very publicly wash their hands of the place and for both to say: “you’re on your own lads”.
Until that happens, local politics in NI will remain mired in immaturity.
NI politics always have a safety net – if they can’t agree, there’s always the option of passing the ball to the adults in London, America, Dublin, and letting them sort it out.
In that way, local NI politicians can indulge in purist posturing about trivial tribal issues until the cows come home, as they know they do not have ultimate responsibility.
A joint declaration of non-interest by England and Ireland would be the best thing ever to happen the North of Ireland.
And let’s face it folks, the majority of people in England and the S of Ireland couldn’t give a rat’s backside about the place anyway.
And I say that as someone who was born in and who lives in NI.
Here is my solution for the place, my short blog on “Vennland”, make of it what you will:
“Do you consider that Unionism and Nationalism both are honourable and sincerely-held positions, equally worthy of respect? Take a bow if you do. I’ve met very few people who genuinely believe that. At best, they’ll pay lip-service to the notion of equality of aspiration, while secretly being (even slightly) contemptuous about one side or the other.
The trick is to find a structure which accommodates Irish-ness and British-ness without degenerating into the usual winners and losers narrative. Predictably, there has been no creative thinking about this at all. Ever. And the winners and losers game continues to this day.”
See blog: https://vennland.blogspot.com/2021/02/uladhnua.html
Having looted all 3 nations England now complains that it has to subsidise them! And even that is in question: the subsidies I mean. How they are calculated has a huge effect on the figures. The is a tendancy for income from the 3 states to be ‘British’ like North Sea oil.
NI’s new found prosperity is founded on its having both UK and EU status.. an option open to the entire UK but eschewed in the name of a mythical total “sovereignty”. Now GB is fast going down the economic tubes and it is that that will tip the scales in favour of independence in Scotland and Reunification in Ireland. The NI solution will involve federalism and indeed that Federation can include Scotland (and Wales?). Why not.. and let England rejoice in its complete freedom from all its burdens: the EU, Scotland, NI and Wales.. free at last to enjoy its economic superiority while its poor unfortunate neighbours try desperately to survive without mother England.
You can then set about expelling all immigrants and settle back into your deckchairs on the SS Britannic or its sister ship whichever fits the bill. Happy days ahead for WASP Blighty I’ll wager! It’ll be a ‘short’ though!
Never mind Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. London and the South-East subsidises the rest of England. So – home rule for the Home Counties?
Mr. Stanhope is not alone in his way of looking at things. In fact, I would say he was a typical Englishman (and that’s not a compliment, in this context), who sees sovereignty and patriotism purely in terms of pounds and pence. Successful human relationships (and the nation-state is a form of human relationship) are not founded on purely mercenary terms. The rest of the world understands this. For Englishmen like Mr. Stanhope, this is still a deep mystery.
Oh go away. England and Scotland’s most glorious days were both in union as Britain. Stop being divisive with your brethren over a bit of government spending. What is England anymore anyway? I have a lot more in common with the Scots and Irish than Muslims in Birmingham or blacks in London.
Is it any wonder that many Catholics in Northern Ireland are quite content with the status quo?
It is the enormous English subsidies that have made this possible.
If there is to be a referendum, it should be an English one, with three simple questions.
1: Do you wish to keep subsiding Northern Ireland?
2: Do you wish to keep subsidising Scotland?
3: Do you wish to keep subsidising Wales?
For far too long this triumvirate of greedy spongers have leached off England. It is time to end this grotesque farce.The ‘Union’ is an anachronism and NOW it is time to move on.
.
In Fairview Park in Dublin stands a statue of a Nazi. Not someone who got called a Nazi by his political opponents, as is so common nowadays, but an actual Nazi. Sean Russell trained with the German special forces in Berlin and died aboard a U-boat while plotting the German invasion of Ireland. If he had succeeded, this would have led to the murder of all the jews and gypsies in Ireland and, by opening a second front against Britain in 1940, may have tipped the balance of the war in Hitler’s favour.
In 2020, Mary Lou McDonald visited the statue and held a memorial service to this servant of the Third Reich.
And now she is tipped to take the reins of power.
The Irish should be ashamed of themselves.
Yet Dublin’s Fire Engines went to Belfast when it was ‘blitzed’ in 1942, and perhaps 70,000 Irishmen from the Republic fought for Britain in WWII.
(Much to the chagrin of De Valera & Co it must be said.)
Blitzed by Luftwaffe planes navigating to their target using the lights from houses in Irish towns who were told not to black-out by Fianna Fail.
As a ‘neutral’ why would the Republic be blacked-out?
Plus German aerial navigation was good, even if the fabled ‘beams’ were not used on the Belfast raids.
Rather oddly the Luftwaffe carried out a raid on Dublin, soon afterwards, killing about 30!
Also.in Campile Co Wexford!
Sorry what?
Sorry what?
Also.in Campile Co Wexford!
Explain how pilots could find Belfast using the lights of villages 50 miles away
And helped with lighted guidance from the local catholics to the Belfast shipyards – told to me as a child by my Irish catholic mum.
In fact the first bombs fell on the waterworks in the north of the city, because the German misidentified the reservoir as the harbour!
In fact the first bombs fell on the waterworks in the north of the city, because the German misidentified the reservoir as the harbour!
As a ‘neutral’ why would the Republic be blacked-out?
Plus German aerial navigation was good, even if the fabled ‘beams’ were not used on the Belfast raids.
Rather oddly the Luftwaffe carried out a raid on Dublin, soon afterwards, killing about 30!
Explain how pilots could find Belfast using the lights of villages 50 miles away
And helped with lighted guidance from the local catholics to the Belfast shipyards – told to me as a child by my Irish catholic mum.
and The Irish Guards have always recruited from The Republic as well as Ulster: there is no sectarianism in ” The Micks” and never has been… Whether Officers, or not… take heed all from North and South!
Those Irishmen did NOT fight for Britain! They opposed fascist dictators and fought for the right of small nations to self-determination. Joining the British army was merely an expedient. Also the pay was good, travel was included and many had few other economic options given the poverty of the looted state they found themselves in.
In addition, DeValera”s Ireland was a stifled place thanks to his love of a stifling church and so many couldn’t wait to get the hell out as fast as they could.
As you’re keen on history check out the country with the most VCs pc.
Incidentally you hit the nail on the head when you asked what the Celtic nations had to offer England? Manpower for one thing! Who built your infrastructure?
You can’t have it both ways! They fought for Britain because we were recruiting and we paid well. Also, as you say they couldn’t wait to escape from the stifling KERRYGOLD REPUBLIC built by De Valera & Co.
I agree about McAlpine’s Fusiliers! And for that matter the huge Irish commitment to building the British Empire.
Happy days indeed!
Liam, as a Scot I acknowledge that the Scots led and hugely profited from the colonialist project that created the British empire. I think quite a few Irish did the same thing.
The Scotch didn’t CREATE the Empire, it was up and running by the time they joined in 1707.
However I acknowledge they were exceptionally good plunderers, along with the Irish and our good selves!
The Scotch didn’t CREATE the Empire, it was up and running by the time they joined in 1707.
However I acknowledge they were exceptionally good plunderers, along with the Irish and our good selves!
You can’t have it both ways! They fought for Britain because we were recruiting and we paid well. Also, as you say they couldn’t wait to escape from the stifling KERRYGOLD REPUBLIC built by De Valera & Co.
I agree about McAlpine’s Fusiliers! And for that matter the huge Irish commitment to building the British Empire.
Happy days indeed!
Liam, as a Scot I acknowledge that the Scots led and hugely profited from the colonialist project that created the British empire. I think quite a few Irish did the same thing.
Blitzed by Luftwaffe planes navigating to their target using the lights from houses in Irish towns who were told not to black-out by Fianna Fail.
and The Irish Guards have always recruited from The Republic as well as Ulster: there is no sectarianism in ” The Micks” and never has been… Whether Officers, or not… take heed all from North and South!
Those Irishmen did NOT fight for Britain! They opposed fascist dictators and fought for the right of small nations to self-determination. Joining the British army was merely an expedient. Also the pay was good, travel was included and many had few other economic options given the poverty of the looted state they found themselves in.
In addition, DeValera”s Ireland was a stifled place thanks to his love of a stifling church and so many couldn’t wait to get the hell out as fast as they could.
As you’re keen on history check out the country with the most VCs pc.
Incidentally you hit the nail on the head when you asked what the Celtic nations had to offer England? Manpower for one thing! Who built your infrastructure?
‘If he had succeeded, this would have led to the murder of all the jews and gypsies in Ireland and, by opening a second front against Britain in 1940, may have tipped the balance of the war in Hitler’s favour.’
One hell of a jump there, Sir.
I don’t think so.
1.Would the Irish have been able to hold out against the Nazi war-machine as well as hundreds of Sinn Fein saboteurs? Seems unlikely to me.
2.Would the Nazi’s have developed a newfound regard for jews and gypsies once they were on the Emerald Isle? Probably not.
3.Would the RAF and RN been able to defend attacks from France and Ireland simultaneously? Tough to imagine they could.
4.If Britain had been defeated in 1940, would D-Day have ever happened? Obviously not.
You don’t agree that Nazi-collaborators shouldn’t have statues in Dublin and leading politicians should venerate them?
The statute, like so many others dedicated to wicked slavers and colonialists, should indeed be torn down. Russell’s dedication to ending NI partition is laudable but his methods are not. The end does not justify the means. McDonald should disown the guy for sure.
Nah keep the statue Liam – it’s history and I don’t think we should tear such stuff down. Just avoid celebration of it, or put an explanatory plaque on it, noting the positives and the negatives.
I agree Ian.
I agree Ian.
Nah keep the statue Liam – it’s history and I don’t think we should tear such stuff down. Just avoid celebration of it, or put an explanatory plaque on it, noting the positives and the negatives.
It would have taken the British Army perhaps three days to overrun the Republic. I gather there were contingency plans for such an unlikely event.
As for a German invasion of Ireland that is even more ludicrous than a German invasion of England!
The statute, like so many others dedicated to wicked slavers and colonialists, should indeed be torn down. Russell’s dedication to ending NI partition is laudable but his methods are not. The end does not justify the means. McDonald should disown the guy for sure.
It would have taken the British Army perhaps three days to overrun the Republic. I gather there were contingency plans for such an unlikely event.
As for a German invasion of Ireland that is even more ludicrous than a German invasion of England!
I don’t think so.
1.Would the Irish have been able to hold out against the Nazi war-machine as well as hundreds of Sinn Fein saboteurs? Seems unlikely to me.
2.Would the Nazi’s have developed a newfound regard for jews and gypsies once they were on the Emerald Isle? Probably not.
3.Would the RAF and RN been able to defend attacks from France and Ireland simultaneously? Tough to imagine they could.
4.If Britain had been defeated in 1940, would D-Day have ever happened? Obviously not.
You don’t agree that Nazi-collaborators shouldn’t have statues in Dublin and leading politicians should venerate them?
The queue to sign the condolences book for the death of Hitler was pretty shameful too.
https://www.historyireland.com/de-valera-hitler-the-visit-of-condolence-may-1945/
But acknowledging Liam’s view, most Irish were actively opposed to Hitler, and disapproved of this action by De Valera.
“Actively opposed to Hitler” Actively? Really? Difficult to see how they could have been actively opposed when their country wasn’t at war!
A lot of them joined the British army, which invited castigation and took a lot of gumption.
A lot of them joined the British army, which invited castigation and took a lot of gumption.
“Actively opposed to Hitler” Actively? Really? Difficult to see how they could have been actively opposed when their country wasn’t at war!
Yet Dublin’s Fire Engines went to Belfast when it was ‘blitzed’ in 1942, and perhaps 70,000 Irishmen from the Republic fought for Britain in WWII.
(Much to the chagrin of De Valera & Co it must be said.)
‘If he had succeeded, this would have led to the murder of all the jews and gypsies in Ireland and, by opening a second front against Britain in 1940, may have tipped the balance of the war in Hitler’s favour.’
One hell of a jump there, Sir.
The queue to sign the condolences book for the death of Hitler was pretty shameful too.
https://www.historyireland.com/de-valera-hitler-the-visit-of-condolence-may-1945/
But acknowledging Liam’s view, most Irish were actively opposed to Hitler, and disapproved of this action by De Valera.
In Fairview Park in Dublin stands a statue of a Nazi. Not someone who got called a Nazi by his political opponents, as is so common nowadays, but an actual Nazi. Sean Russell trained with the German special forces in Berlin and died aboard a U-boat while plotting the German invasion of Ireland. If he had succeeded, this would have led to the murder of all the jews and gypsies in Ireland and, by opening a second front against Britain in 1940, may have tipped the balance of the war in Hitler’s favour.
In 2020, Mary Lou McDonald visited the statue and held a memorial service to this servant of the Third Reich.
And now she is tipped to take the reins of power.
The Irish should be ashamed of themselves.
So all those people were murdered for nothing.
Almost Putinesque in its futility.
Not for nothing Polidori, Those murders helped cement control of the drugs trade for the IRA.
Indeed. Sinn Fein/PIRA went from being a socialist revolutionary party funded by petty crime to an organised crime state with political top cover.
And all thanks to the USA.
I used to enjoy meeting Irish Americans in the eighties and exploring their arguments for supporting IRA terrorism against civilians – they always backed off as they just couldn’t justify it.
9/11 also gave them a good shock, and not before time it must be said.
They completely shut up after that – the hypocrisy was so obvious.
They completely shut up after that – the hypocrisy was so obvious.
9/11 also gave them a good shock, and not before time it must be said.
I used to enjoy meeting Irish Americans in the eighties and exploring their arguments for supporting IRA terrorism against civilians – they always backed off as they just couldn’t justify it.
And all thanks to the USA.
and loyalists too
Indeed. Sinn Fein/PIRA went from being a socialist revolutionary party funded by petty crime to an organised crime state with political top cover.
and loyalists too
Just like Iraq
..and Sicily.
..and Sicily.
Not for nothing Polidori, Those murders helped cement control of the drugs trade for the IRA.
Just like Iraq
So all those people were murdered for nothing.
Almost Putinesque in its futility.
I wonder if Sinn Fein’s enemies in the quest for power will see a failed referendum as a useful tool to undermine Sinn Fein?
As a side benefit, it will be harder to demonize the UK government, etc, (a productive ploy in the struggle for power) as ‘standing in the way of a united Ireland’ if they roll out a referendum on that very point. If it fails, the only people Sinn Fein can point, to try and blame, will be . . . . . its own voters.
So….?
So….?
I wonder if Sinn Fein’s enemies in the quest for power will see a failed referendum as a useful tool to undermine Sinn Fein?
As a side benefit, it will be harder to demonize the UK government, etc, (a productive ploy in the struggle for power) as ‘standing in the way of a united Ireland’ if they roll out a referendum on that very point. If it fails, the only people Sinn Fein can point, to try and blame, will be . . . . . its own voters.
Neither ‘ourselves’ nor alone’, Sinn Fein is looking more and more like every other opportunistic multi-national conglomeration.
Really? What do you base yhat wild assertion on? Do you expect a large political party to have just one policy on one single issue?
From opposition to ‘Critical but supportive’ of the EU, which means ceding more and more power to Brussels, the North Atlantic Alliance and multi-nationals… just like everyone else.
From opposition to ‘Critical but supportive’ of the EU, which means ceding more and more power to Brussels, the North Atlantic Alliance and multi-nationals… just like everyone else.
Really? What do you base yhat wild assertion on? Do you expect a large political party to have just one policy on one single issue?
Neither ‘ourselves’ nor alone’, Sinn Fein is looking more and more like every other opportunistic multi-national conglomeration.
It’s the economy, stupid! Once a united Ireland becomes a realistic possibility, watch the population of the South suddenly notice how much German reunification cost the West.
East Germany was terminally backward from an economic point of view.. NI is quite the opposite as regards industry, infrastructure, services and wages etc. The comparison is with E Germany is totally invalid. Reunification will be so seamless it will be virtually unnoticed.
Some fair arguments and then you make an extreme claim that just isn’t credible:
“The public sector accounts for 27% of employee jobs in NI. This compares to 18% in UK as a whole.”
https://www.economy-ni.gov.uk/news/business-register-and-employment-survey-2021
In Ireland “the proportion of the workforce working in the public sector is just below 15 per cent.”
https://www.ipa.ie/_fileUpload/Documents/PUBLICSECTORTRENDS2018.pdf
They would have to lose about 90,000 jobs in the public sector to be on a par with Ireland. That would destroy the economy in NI.
Some fair arguments and then you make an extreme claim that just isn’t credible:
“The public sector accounts for 27% of employee jobs in NI. This compares to 18% in UK as a whole.”
https://www.economy-ni.gov.uk/news/business-register-and-employment-survey-2021
In Ireland “the proportion of the workforce working in the public sector is just below 15 per cent.”
https://www.ipa.ie/_fileUpload/Documents/PUBLICSECTORTRENDS2018.pdf
They would have to lose about 90,000 jobs in the public sector to be on a par with Ireland. That would destroy the economy in NI.
East Germany was terminally backward from an economic point of view.. NI is quite the opposite as regards industry, infrastructure, services and wages etc. The comparison is with E Germany is totally invalid. Reunification will be so seamless it will be virtually unnoticed.
It’s the economy, stupid! Once a united Ireland becomes a realistic possibility, watch the population of the South suddenly notice how much German reunification cost the West.
What is a,border poll?
A referendum in NI on the question of unification with Eire.
It is in the nature of the Irish to want to fight. But dont want to win.
I think Dublin should be given the keys to Northern Ireland and let them pick up the huge bill.
Strangely, if you compare football supporters you’ll find the Irish fans win the world cup on peaceful behaviour: whereas the Brits.. well, less said the better!
The Brits? Really?
The Brits? Really?
Sadly, they are NOT that stupid.
Strangely, if you compare football supporters you’ll find the Irish fans win the world cup on peaceful behaviour: whereas the Brits.. well, less said the better!
Sadly, they are NOT that stupid.
It is in the nature of the Irish to want to fight. But dont want to win.
I think Dublin should be given the keys to Northern Ireland and let them pick up the huge bill.