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Yma o Hyd (Matt Cardy/Getty Images)
I watched Wales play the USA in a packed pub in Cardiff last Monday. When the anthem began, everyone stood up and belted it out as loud as they could. No one was self-conscious; no one was embarrassed. Unlike in England, in Wales patriotism is not associated with the Right. It’s not linked with deference to a royal, a hatred of foreigners, or the values of the past. In Wales, patriotism is viewed as progressive and modern. Thus while our singing of the anthem was not particularly tuneful, it was fervent, passionate and deeply felt. Wales was playing its first World Cup match for 64 years and it was a moment to savour, to remember, to share.
Every football fan grew up watching the World Cup, but for most in Wales it was always someone else’s party. We’d come to expect disappointment. It wouldn’t have been so bad had we not had to watch the world’s biggest sporting competition through a UK-media that assumed every viewer was an England fan. To make things worse, we were always subject to a barrage of “Come on England” advertising in shops and on television. During the 1998 tournament, I wrote to my local supermarket in Cardiff to complain it was full of England flags. They replied, with more than a touch of sarcasm, that they’d get behind Wales if we ever qualified. Well, now we have — and tonight are taking on the English team we were tacitly expected to support.
The current buzz around football in Wales represents more than just matters on the field. Unlike other Welsh national institutions, the Football Association of Wales (FAW) has been unashamedly political in recent years. Players have received lessons on Welsh history and official social media has marked important anniversaries. The official Welsh World Cup song is “Yma o Hyd”, an Eighties anthem that proudly declares that the Welsh are still here, “despite everyone and everything”, despite Thatcher and her “crew”. It was written and sung by Dafydd Iwan, a former president of the Welsh nationalist Plaid Cymru, who was imprisoned several times during the Sixties and Seventies civil disobedience campaign for the Welsh-language rights. The FAW’s video for the song includes footage of those protests, and iconic moments from Welsh history such as the 1984-5 miners’ strike and the flooding of the Tryweryn valley in the Sixties to build a reservoir for Liverpool. And the interweaving of historical archive with contemporary scenes of flag-waving fans resembles a video by the campaign for Welsh independence. Whereas once this would have been controversial, it has been embraced by most fans regardless of their politics and language.
The Welsh language has been central to Welsh identity and the historic Welsh independence movement. Welsh has been used and respected by the FAW, not just in a symbolic way but in interviews and press conferences, showing the world and the Welsh people that it is a living language. For more than a century, parts of the Welsh population had a schizophrenic relationship with Welsh. They were proud that it existed but also prone to think that it had no practical use, that it was a language of the past, not the present or the future. The FAW have challenged that view, helping normalise the language by using it where English might have been easier and more widely understood. The last line of the national anthem translates as “May the old language endure”. In the FAW’s actions, there is hope this can become reality.
But football can also give a misleading picture of modern Wales. The Welsh language is only spoken by around a fifth of the population. Its future in its rural heartlands is endangered as young Welsh speakers move away in search of jobs and affordable houses and their place is taken by older English migrants. In urban areas, the language is undergoing something of a revival as more and more parents choose to send their children to Welsh-medium schools, but that can make those children think of the language as something educational and consequently uncool. The playgrounds of those schools are dominated by the English language. Too often their pupils make little of Welsh after they leave.
The particularly assertive and self-confident sense of nationhood that is depicted around football is also misleading. Support for Welsh independence has risen dramatically since Brexit but it remains no higher than maybe a quarter of the electorate. The emotional Britishness that held the union together is fading with generational change, but the old ideas that Wales is too small and too poor to be independent remain very powerful. Migration from England has changed the dynamics of Welsh society. In the 2011 census only 66% of the population recorded their national identity as Welsh. In a recent YouGov poll, 17% of respondents in Wales said they would be supporting England at the World Cup. The proud Welshness so evident in football is not shared by the whole population.
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SubscribePatriotism, and indeed nationalism, are perjorative terms only when prefixed by the word ‘English’. The Welsh people are entitled to be proud of their culture, language and music. If I were Welsh, I would be too. As an Englishman, I certainly appreciate all these things.
But spare us this notion that Welsh nationalism is progressive and modern, on some sort of higher moral plane. Even ‘Land of my Fathers’ harks back to a romantic past. Much of what drives it, as the author gives away in this article, is chip-on-the-shoulder, grievance based English-baiting. Don’t pretend it’s anything different.
We Welsh are well balanced – we have a chip on both shoulders. And who wouldn’t – living next to the English. From my lofty perch in the Welsh foothills I can see Bristol Airport and now that I’m retired – that’s far enough. 😉
That’s not what the article says. The article uses phrases like “is associated with” and “is viewed as”. It does not say that Welsh nationalism is in fact progressive.
‘In Wales, patriotism is viewed as progressive and modern.’ Whatever his personal views the author contrasts Welsh patriotism with English, and makes it clear that lots of people in Wales think it is progressive and modern. So my point still stands.
That’s because although he is an ideologue he’s pretending to be an academic
So he has to use ‘professorial’ language .
‘In Wales, patriotism is viewed as progressive and modern.’ Whatever his personal views the author contrasts Welsh patriotism with English, and makes it clear that lots of people in Wales think it is progressive and modern. So my point still stands.
That’s because although he is an ideologue he’s pretending to be an academic
So he has to use ‘professorial’ language .
We Welsh are well balanced – we have a chip on both shoulders. And who wouldn’t – living next to the English. From my lofty perch in the Welsh foothills I can see Bristol Airport and now that I’m retired – that’s far enough. 😉
That’s not what the article says. The article uses phrases like “is associated with” and “is viewed as”. It does not say that Welsh nationalism is in fact progressive.
Patriotism, and indeed nationalism, are perjorative terms only when prefixed by the word ‘English’. The Welsh people are entitled to be proud of their culture, language and music. If I were Welsh, I would be too. As an Englishman, I certainly appreciate all these things.
But spare us this notion that Welsh nationalism is progressive and modern, on some sort of higher moral plane. Even ‘Land of my Fathers’ harks back to a romantic past. Much of what drives it, as the author gives away in this article, is chip-on-the-shoulder, grievance based English-baiting. Don’t pretend it’s anything different.
The CEO of the Football Association of Wales is Noel Mooney, a former protégé and vocal supporter of John Delaney, the disgraced former CEO of the Football Association of Ireland. Aside from his high rolling lifestyle, Delaney had to apologise for singing pro IRA songs in public. Mooney has said he intends to have Wales compete on the international stage as Cymru, emulating Turkiye after the Erdogan government demanded that the country not be referred to by its anglicised name. All very “modern” and “progressive” presumably, but this would put Wales out of line with the vast majority of European countries (including Ireland) who happily compete under their English language name, and would drive a politically charged wedge between the team and many of their English speaking supporters. The writer displays a comical lack of self awareness when he boasts that Welsh patriotism (unlike British patriotism presumably) is not based on “hatred of foreigners, or the values of the past”, and then goes on to celebrate an anti Thatcher song about the Miners Strike and a video featuring the creation of a reservoir in the 1960s for evil Liverpool, and to complain about English “migrants”, coming to live in another part of their own country.
It can be added that his claim that the two sports (rugby and football) being invented in the UK was a “historical accident” is beyond farce. Does he not understand that one derives directly from the other, or where the word Rugby itself originates? Or that football itself became organised as a result of the industrial revolution?
I’m a fan of the Welsh team, and although they’re unlikely to qualify for the knockout stages i hope they put on a good show against England tonight. With the latter almost certsin to qualify, i wouldn’t even mind if Wales gave Southgate a kick up the rear. But to extrapolate from that towards greater agency in the political sphere is an emotional response rather than being grounded in reality. Celebration of Welsh identity isn’t problematic but arguing for more of it suggests he thinks it is.
Let’s hope that Wales gets a well deserved thrashing today, and are put back into their tiny little nationalistic box.
21.00 GMT: QED.
The biggest problem that Wales has at the moment is the poor quality of people in the Senedd. There are 60 members and they are pathetic. You would expect this in a population of 3 million people. Even worse, they intend to increase the number to 96 before the next election and this is just ‘jobs for the boys’.
The second biggest problem is that the leadership are trying to say that the main thing is the language; people can’t eat the language nor warm themselves in the winter. In the 2011 census the question was, “How many people in your household speak Welsh?”. The answer was 19%. There was a great fight to change the question in 2021 to “How many people in your household speak a few words of Welsh?”. This figure will be very high as years go on because children have to learn Welsh in schools. I think that everybody realises that the language is not enough.
The anthem is the best anthem in the world. It is stirring and people are proud to hear it. Contrast all of the military marches we are now hearing in the World Cup. Not everyone knows the words but they all sing along with the the chorus, “Wlad, wlad..” It truly brings tears to the eyes.
What Wales needs is a way of making money so that it can go solo – the anthem and the language will not make money. The Labour-controlled Senedd hates business and has said that the ultimate aim is to make everyone in Wales a government employee. Already, new government employees must speak some Welsh. This begs the question, “Who will pay them?” England does not want us and rightly so. We do not want to depend on England. But we really need to remove the awful people in the Senedd and find a few good ones. There must be good people somwhere.
Wales has to watch Scotland very carefully. If Scotland leaves the UK, there will be a landslide vote for Wales to go also. The money will have to come from the EU and that doesn’t look like a certainty. Wales has a fulltime presence in Brussels to monitor our reception for the future.
Chris are you not a civil engineer who has the ‘misfortune’ to live in Wales?
Yet you seem to have made a Damascene conversion to their cause. What may I ask was the catalyst?
No, I can’t agree with your ‘misfortune’. Wales is my home and ‘home is where the heart is’.
As an engineer, I believe that Wales could make it alone and be far more successful than an England in decline. Remember that Bolton and Rotherham are still in England and I recommend a visit to emphasise my point. But the politicians will let us down because they will focus on the soundbites and the trivial things like all politicians do.
As a rider, a focus on the language and the insistance on teaching children Welsh at school has other, less obvious, results. When I attended a meeting (a while back) where Indian industrialists were being invited to come to Wales, in the post-speech mingling the question most often asked was, “Will my children really have to learn Welsh when we settle in Wales?” An interesting question.
So, a focus on language has all sorts of end results.
Well I can’t deny “ home is where the heart is”, but I am sceptical about the notion that Wales could “make it alone”. From my observations of the Valleys, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Swansea etc are little better of than Rochdale or Bolton.
In fact the very reason I wish to see the Barnet Formula scrapped is that the funds currently squandered on Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales could be diverted to England and spent on such places as Nelson, Colne, Margate, Chatham etc.
‘Charity begins at home’, as the old adage says!
I understand and think that it’s best for all if there is a separation. But the proof would be in the detail.
I understand and think that it’s best for all if there is a separation. But the proof would be in the detail.
Chris, the answer to your interesting question, for those who need to know is yes but only as a second language (at the moment.) I’ve never heard my grandsons use it anywhere, anytime. I must ask them which language they sing the Anthem in. We do have Welsh medium/language schools in Newport (Gwent!) but not too many. One of the things I find somewhat amusing is Welsh spoken with a Scous accent up your way.
Bristol is also in England and so close to South Wales it is agonising. No Welshman in Bristol would ever move home. Manchester is also in England. And Chester and…
Back in 2019, the Senedd commissioned a group at Cardiff University to help with ways to increase taxes. The focus was the Council Tax, ‘What happens if we double the Council Tax?’
The report came back with a big fat negative, the problem being that 45% of the population of Wales lived within 25 miles of the border with England. If the Council Tax was doubled, maybe those people would sell up and go to live in England.
This is all a bit silly but the point is that there are very few ways that the Senedd can increase taxes. Ideally, everyone working in Wales should be a government employee, paid by the British government, so that the Council Tax could be doubled and salaries would be increased accordingly. Wales would then gain.
We ended up with a charge for visitors using public toilets and a (proposed) tax on hotel bills. This is just a silly game.
Back in 2019, the Senedd commissioned a group at Cardiff University to help with ways to increase taxes. The focus was the Council Tax, ‘What happens if we double the Council Tax?’
The report came back with a big fat negative, the problem being that 45% of the population of Wales lived within 25 miles of the border with England. If the Council Tax was doubled, maybe those people would sell up and go to live in England.
This is all a bit silly but the point is that there are very few ways that the Senedd can increase taxes. Ideally, everyone working in Wales should be a government employee, paid by the British government, so that the Council Tax could be doubled and salaries would be increased accordingly. Wales would then gain.
We ended up with a charge for visitors using public toilets and a (proposed) tax on hotel bills. This is just a silly game.
Well I can’t deny “ home is where the heart is”, but I am sceptical about the notion that Wales could “make it alone”. From my observations of the Valleys, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Swansea etc are little better of than Rochdale or Bolton.
In fact the very reason I wish to see the Barnet Formula scrapped is that the funds currently squandered on Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales could be diverted to England and spent on such places as Nelson, Colne, Margate, Chatham etc.
‘Charity begins at home’, as the old adage says!
Chris, the answer to your interesting question, for those who need to know is yes but only as a second language (at the moment.) I’ve never heard my grandsons use it anywhere, anytime. I must ask them which language they sing the Anthem in. We do have Welsh medium/language schools in Newport (Gwent!) but not too many. One of the things I find somewhat amusing is Welsh spoken with a Scous accent up your way.
Bristol is also in England and so close to South Wales it is agonising. No Welshman in Bristol would ever move home. Manchester is also in England. And Chester and…
No, I can’t agree with your ‘misfortune’. Wales is my home and ‘home is where the heart is’.
As an engineer, I believe that Wales could make it alone and be far more successful than an England in decline. Remember that Bolton and Rotherham are still in England and I recommend a visit to emphasise my point. But the politicians will let us down because they will focus on the soundbites and the trivial things like all politicians do.
As a rider, a focus on the language and the insistance on teaching children Welsh at school has other, less obvious, results. When I attended a meeting (a while back) where Indian industrialists were being invited to come to Wales, in the post-speech mingling the question most often asked was, “Will my children really have to learn Welsh when we settle in Wales?” An interesting question.
So, a focus on language has all sorts of end results.
We can lend them a few MSPs of all different persuasions to show them the calibre of people a local assembly can have.
The border between England and Scotland is easy to mark. What on earth are you going to do with that between England and Wales if Wales leaves the UK and joins the EU. I know that is a fantasy but just look at the map.
Offa’s d**e?
Offa’s d**e (Welsh: Clawdd Offa) is a large linear earthwork that roughly follows the border between England and Wales. The structure is named after Offa, the Anglo-Saxon king of Mercia from AD 757 until 796, who is traditionally believed to have ordered its construction. Although its precise original purpose is debated, it delineated the border between Anglian Mercia and the Welsh kingdom of Powys.
COME ON CENSOR YOU CANNOT BE THAT IGNORANT!!!!!!!!
LET US TRY A DIFFERENT SPELLING OF THE DREADED D WORD!!!!!
Offa’s Dike (Welsh: Clawdd Offa) is a large linear earthwork that roughly follows the border between England and Wales. The structure is named after Offa, the Anglo-Saxon king of Mercia from AD 757 until 796, who is traditionally believed to have ordered its construction. Although its precise original purpose is debated, it delineated the border between Anglian Mercia and the Welsh kingdom of Powys.
I think I know that . Having walked a lot of it. You are wilfully missing the point. It is very like the border in Ireland . Impossible to police and in the unlikely event of a Wales in the EU quite impossible to enforce any custom controls. I really do not deal in fantasies .,
The Irish border was NOT impossible to Police, rather the UK lacked the will to do what was necessary.
Presumably you have also walked the English border across the Cheviots? Is that really any easier to mark than the Offa’Dike area?….…..No!
Anyway we jest, there is absolutely no chance that either of these parasites ( Wales & Scotland) will jettisoned in the foreseeable future, more is the pity.
Never done the Scots border. The Welsh border is in much easier country.
Never done the Scots border. The Welsh border is in much easier country.
The Irish border was NOT impossible to Police, rather the UK lacked the will to do what was necessary.
Presumably you have also walked the English border across the Cheviots? Is that really any easier to mark than the Offa’Dike area?….…..No!
Anyway we jest, there is absolutely no chance that either of these parasites ( Wales & Scotland) will jettisoned in the foreseeable future, more is the pity.
I think I know that . Having walked a lot of it. You are wilfully missing the point. It is very like the border in Ireland . Impossible to police and in the unlikely event of a Wales in the EU quite impossible to enforce any custom controls. I really do not deal in fantasies .,
Offa’s d**e?
Offa’s d**e (Welsh: Clawdd Offa) is a large linear earthwork that roughly follows the border between England and Wales. The structure is named after Offa, the Anglo-Saxon king of Mercia from AD 757 until 796, who is traditionally believed to have ordered its construction. Although its precise original purpose is debated, it delineated the border between Anglian Mercia and the Welsh kingdom of Powys.
COME ON CENSOR YOU CANNOT BE THAT IGNORANT!!!!!!!!
LET US TRY A DIFFERENT SPELLING OF THE DREADED D WORD!!!!!
Offa’s Dike (Welsh: Clawdd Offa) is a large linear earthwork that roughly follows the border between England and Wales. The structure is named after Offa, the Anglo-Saxon king of Mercia from AD 757 until 796, who is traditionally believed to have ordered its construction. Although its precise original purpose is debated, it delineated the border between Anglian Mercia and the Welsh kingdom of Powys.
Chris are you not a civil engineer who has the ‘misfortune’ to live in Wales?
Yet you seem to have made a Damascene conversion to their cause. What may I ask was the catalyst?
We can lend them a few MSPs of all different persuasions to show them the calibre of people a local assembly can have.
The border between England and Scotland is easy to mark. What on earth are you going to do with that between England and Wales if Wales leaves the UK and joins the EU. I know that is a fantasy but just look at the map.
No, they do not compete under English names. In Brazilian media, for example, all the teams have Portuguese names, including England. Today’s game is País de Gales vs Inglaterra. Each language decides what to call foreign places.
Same in all countries. French for England is Angleterre and Pays de Galles for Wales.
Same in all countries. French for England is Angleterre and Pays de Galles for Wales.
It can be added that his claim that the two sports (rugby and football) being invented in the UK was a “historical accident” is beyond farce. Does he not understand that one derives directly from the other, or where the word Rugby itself originates? Or that football itself became organised as a result of the industrial revolution?
I’m a fan of the Welsh team, and although they’re unlikely to qualify for the knockout stages i hope they put on a good show against England tonight. With the latter almost certsin to qualify, i wouldn’t even mind if Wales gave Southgate a kick up the rear. But to extrapolate from that towards greater agency in the political sphere is an emotional response rather than being grounded in reality. Celebration of Welsh identity isn’t problematic but arguing for more of it suggests he thinks it is.
Let’s hope that Wales gets a well deserved thrashing today, and are put back into their tiny little nationalistic box.
21.00 GMT: QED.
The biggest problem that Wales has at the moment is the poor quality of people in the Senedd. There are 60 members and they are pathetic. You would expect this in a population of 3 million people. Even worse, they intend to increase the number to 96 before the next election and this is just ‘jobs for the boys’.
The second biggest problem is that the leadership are trying to say that the main thing is the language; people can’t eat the language nor warm themselves in the winter. In the 2011 census the question was, “How many people in your household speak Welsh?”. The answer was 19%. There was a great fight to change the question in 2021 to “How many people in your household speak a few words of Welsh?”. This figure will be very high as years go on because children have to learn Welsh in schools. I think that everybody realises that the language is not enough.
The anthem is the best anthem in the world. It is stirring and people are proud to hear it. Contrast all of the military marches we are now hearing in the World Cup. Not everyone knows the words but they all sing along with the the chorus, “Wlad, wlad..” It truly brings tears to the eyes.
What Wales needs is a way of making money so that it can go solo – the anthem and the language will not make money. The Labour-controlled Senedd hates business and has said that the ultimate aim is to make everyone in Wales a government employee. Already, new government employees must speak some Welsh. This begs the question, “Who will pay them?” England does not want us and rightly so. We do not want to depend on England. But we really need to remove the awful people in the Senedd and find a few good ones. There must be good people somwhere.
Wales has to watch Scotland very carefully. If Scotland leaves the UK, there will be a landslide vote for Wales to go also. The money will have to come from the EU and that doesn’t look like a certainty. Wales has a fulltime presence in Brussels to monitor our reception for the future.
No, they do not compete under English names. In Brazilian media, for example, all the teams have Portuguese names, including England. Today’s game is País de Gales vs Inglaterra. Each language decides what to call foreign places.
The CEO of the Football Association of Wales is Noel Mooney, a former protégé and vocal supporter of John Delaney, the disgraced former CEO of the Football Association of Ireland. Aside from his high rolling lifestyle, Delaney had to apologise for singing pro IRA songs in public. Mooney has said he intends to have Wales compete on the international stage as Cymru, emulating Turkiye after the Erdogan government demanded that the country not be referred to by its anglicised name. All very “modern” and “progressive” presumably, but this would put Wales out of line with the vast majority of European countries (including Ireland) who happily compete under their English language name, and would drive a politically charged wedge between the team and many of their English speaking supporters. The writer displays a comical lack of self awareness when he boasts that Welsh patriotism (unlike British patriotism presumably) is not based on “hatred of foreigners, or the values of the past”, and then goes on to celebrate an anti Thatcher song about the Miners Strike and a video featuring the creation of a reservoir in the 1960s for evil Liverpool, and to complain about English “migrants”, coming to live in another part of their own country.
Typically, the writer smugly compares positive (i.e. left wing) Welsh nationalism with the rabid fascist beast of English nationalism (an invention which excites them greatly). How predictable. How dull.
As he also notes, Wales is very small and therefore even more prone to corruption than England. Look at Scotland; if that’s how you want Wales to go, then good luck to you.
Typically, the writer smugly compares positive (i.e. left wing) Welsh nationalism with the rabid fascist beast of English nationalism (an invention which excites them greatly). How predictable. How dull.
As he also notes, Wales is very small and therefore even more prone to corruption than England. Look at Scotland; if that’s how you want Wales to go, then good luck to you.
“Unlike in England, in Wales patriotism is not associated with the Right.” In England finding a patriotic Lefty is like finding tits on a boar hog.
“Unlike in England, in Wales patriotism is not associated with the Right.” In England finding a patriotic Lefty is like finding tits on a boar hog.
I have been going to Wales all my life. For most of us in the South of England and the Midlands it is nearer to us than the West country. The valleys of the old industrial south now look depressed. They look poor and uncared for so why would a youngster stay there ? The industry has gone and that was the reason they became heavily populated in the early 19th century. In the rural areas you are as likely to find someone from England as a native Welshman now and that is not going to change . Much like the demographic changes in certain English cities. Irreversible now as the latest figures show although it amazes me that nobody asks the obvious question as to where have the native English gone from Leicester and London and Birmingham? Into a black hole or maybe Wales ? I think those of us in the market towns know the answer but that is a whole can of worms best not opened.
Sometimes it feels like we English have to give the Welsh and Scottish a free pass on patriotism. As for the language why should that be a problem to anyone. In a wide world dominated by the English language it will never be more than a small spoken tongue and if people in Wales want to speak it then why not ?. I remember a Welshman castigating Dylan Thomas because he wrote in English. I pointed out that he knew he was a great poet and wanted to reach the world so why would he ever have written in Welsh ? .
The native English have far fewer children than immigrants ?
The native English have far fewer children than immigrants ?
I have been going to Wales all my life. For most of us in the South of England and the Midlands it is nearer to us than the West country. The valleys of the old industrial south now look depressed. They look poor and uncared for so why would a youngster stay there ? The industry has gone and that was the reason they became heavily populated in the early 19th century. In the rural areas you are as likely to find someone from England as a native Welshman now and that is not going to change . Much like the demographic changes in certain English cities. Irreversible now as the latest figures show although it amazes me that nobody asks the obvious question as to where have the native English gone from Leicester and London and Birmingham? Into a black hole or maybe Wales ? I think those of us in the market towns know the answer but that is a whole can of worms best not opened.
Sometimes it feels like we English have to give the Welsh and Scottish a free pass on patriotism. As for the language why should that be a problem to anyone. In a wide world dominated by the English language it will never be more than a small spoken tongue and if people in Wales want to speak it then why not ?. I remember a Welshman castigating Dylan Thomas because he wrote in English. I pointed out that he knew he was a great poet and wanted to reach the world so why would he ever have written in Welsh ? .
I was born in Wales, in 1951. Grew up in Wales, but not Welsh; with the sound of The Beatles in my ears. Went to a Welsh university as Welsh nationalism won the argument that led to quasi-devolution. Lived not a mile from the Welsh Folk Museum at St. Fagan’s. Came to London nigh on fifty years ago because Wales was too small. Still here. Worked for the BBC for all my life. Still go back a couple of times a year, my kids – now adults – love it to bits, as do I. But it’s still too small to stand on its own two feet.
Slightly off-topic (and possibly unkind), but has anyone else noticed the uncanny resemblance between Martin Johnse’s thumbnail pic and Les, the gormless lab assistant from Vic Reeves’ Big Night Out? Are they by any chance related? I think we should be told…
Slightly off-topic (and possibly unkind), but has anyone else noticed the uncanny resemblance between Martin Johnse’s thumbnail pic and Les, the gormless lab assistant from Vic Reeves’ Big Night Out? Are they by any chance related? I think we should be told…