“two months after the Soviets launched Sputnik into space, a military agency tasked with mapping the skies would apply its precious resources towards expelling a highly-trained, competent, and loyal employee.”
And today, those same important agencies in the face of various crises and an increasingly aggressive China, apply resources to pride month, politically correct speech, diversity chiefs and expelling highly-trained, competent employees who go against the unstated religion of wokeism and “equity.”
Plus ça change, indeed.
But sadly, some things do change.
There was a time when gay activists were: a group of “well dressed” and “very well behaved” men with genuine courage and guts.
Now, we have the sort of “activists” highlighted in the picture at the top, preening, vulgar, clutching on to victimhood and prone to be “offended”
Last edited 1 year ago by Samir Iker
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Interesting history. As usual it seems history is distorted to meet the political needs of the dominant clique of the present.
And a lesson missed … that there are courageous and principled people who may be different to you, hold different opinions to you, but still admirable, like Mr Kameny, who I had never heard of.
Arkadian X
1 year ago
Never heard of the guy. Thanks for the history lesson.
NB. I would show this article to those who equate the fight for trans rights to the one for gay rights of old, but then, as the author states, Kameny was too full of privilege – white, Jewish, gay… you name it.
Indeed, in those years Jews were barred from many country clubs and their numbers restricted at Harvard (and Yale?). Not much privilege there …
Last edited 1 year ago by Judy Englander
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Fighting for a group’s rights through the courts and using the political system is boring, much better to have blood on the streets; at least that seems to be attitude of many radicals of all political colours. It is men like Mr Kameny who are worthy of our respect, they have tenacity, courage, and patience, and they get things done without alienating large swathes of society. This desire for conflict is the reason that the Suffragists are over-looked in favour of the Suffragettes,.even though they were probably more instrumental in attaining the vote for women.
Jonathan Smith
1 year ago
I remember leaving the premier of the film Pride (Gays & Lesbians support the miners in the time of AIDS) with a young friend. He didn’t understand why most miners union branches had refused money raised by gays/lesbians. He had never had to experience hostility and rejection so it wasn’t on his radar as an explanation.
In the days of ‘gay pride’ – not just tolerated but funded and promoted by the state – it’s good to be reminded that no so long ago men like Kameny (of whom I had never heard) risked everything for equality before the law.
There is a difference between remembering that there was a worse time, versus pretending that today is still as bad as 1900 or that overpampered “victim” groups still face discrimination.
And now, unfortunately, having achieved equal rights in Law in the UK, Stonewall has hitched its flag to transideology, that deeply homophobic and anti-women cause. So very sad for women like me who walked the walk with gay men and lesbians from the mid-1960s.
Julian Pellatt
1 year ago
I have ‘gay’ friends and colleagues who are disgusted by the aggressive, exibitionist sexual depravity publicly flaunted in gay pride processions and propaganda like that portrayed in the picture in this article. Indeed, they are ashamed by such tasteless antics and have no wish to be associated with displays of this kind. They are decent, ordinary citizens who feel no need emulate this so-called ‘activism’; they are ‘invisible’, like most people in the street, who feel no need to force themselves ‘in-your-face’ thus on society. I agree with them.
Indeed, if a heterosexual couple were to be smooching publicly bare to the waist they would probably get arrested so the pendulum has probably swung a long way past equality.
My gay friends feel exactly the same. In fact they put me off going to the Hoe to participate. They said if you dance around celebrating your heterosexuality we’ll do the same. They say all of it now is to sell stuff with rainbows on it, and one threw away a pair of socks he’d bought because unknowingly they had rainbows on them. The pride battle was won many years ago in Britain.
Even a trans woman I’m friendly with refused to attend. She says she’s absolutely fine as she is – she runs a pub.
The most fashionable of these myths, that the main participants at Stonewall were not gay men and lesbians but “trans women of colour”, is promulgated in service of a contemporary political agenda, not the historical record.
I’ve been hearing this a lot lately. I’m starting to wonder when the trans lobby will start appropriating famous icons such as Napoleon as trans, or Joan of Arc, or Winston Churchill, or Margaret Thatcher, or Michelle Obama.
who actually gives a brass razoo about them and their whining, tedious utterances? I have never heard the word Stonewall uttered in any conversation that I have had in my entire life…. bar out Hunting in Gloucestershire, where, to put it in context jumping a stone wall is like, excuse the pun, that modern ‘ must do….” Taking a fence”….
The thing is that every political and or religious movement has its sacred origin story. And its Flag.
But I wonder about flying the rainbow flag for 30 days in June, as two liberal neighbors are doing, versus just one day on July 4 for the national flag of the USA.
laurence scaduto
1 year ago
I was a kid, living nearby, already reading the news every day. My memories differ from this story.
Homosexuality was semi-accepted by a large-ish segment of society. As long as some effort was made to keep it below the cultural radar no one really cared. Most people had friends and co-workers “like that”. Everyone understood that if you saw a Broadway musical or liked to where nice clothes you were dealing, happily, with homosexuals.
The police in NYC weren’t like that. That night they got out-of-hand, there officers lost control. Specifically they roughed up a “confused kid”, homeless, prone to outrageous clothes and make-up, who many of the patrons of Stonewall had been looking after. Right in front of everyone. These friends of his flipped out, started throwing punches, quickly got the better of the cops and the whole thing exploded into a story much too big (and entertaining) to stay below the radar anymore.
You have to remember that no one had AC in those days. People were just over-heated and pissed off. Summer in the city was like a powder keg.
Kameny’s story is very interesting; he certainly deserves real credit for his struggle. But sometimes throwing punches did the trick more directly.
Justin O'Neill
1 year ago
‘The role of Kameny and other gay rights pioneers has been neglected by many historians, journalists, and cultural influencers, who prefer to locate the origins of the movement for gay equality in “a race riot against the police started by hustling transwomen of colour”.’
Can you name a single historian who thinks that the gay equality movement started at Stonewall? Kameny is a familiar figure to anyone who has spent any time studying gay history. No US gay history course has ever been taught that doesn’t spend substantial time on the Mattachine Society.
Are there non-historians (your “journalists and cultural influencers”) that maybe don’t fully understand the history? I’m sure. Not everyone talking about gay pride on TikTok is incredibly well informed about history, I’m more than willing to grant you. Still, giving specific examples rather than just lumping together nebulous “historians, journalists, and cultural influencers” would vastly improve your argument. Right now it feels like you’re just making up people who don’t exist and getting mad at them.
Which is shame because your point that often times the loudest and most radical voices are the ones we remember, and that we should also remember the role that more moderate reformists played in getting us where we are, is such a good one. It doesn’t need to be couched behind this framing that simply isn’t accurate.
Molly Bennett
1 year ago
I could care less who started what in the issue of “GAY THIS THAT OR THE OTHER” just please do not involve those of us who do not care /or ask/ for current news on what this particular group of misfits are complaining about now ! they chose thier path ……..now walk it alone ! or with the like minded …….that does not include the general public!!!!!!……..unless of course you are just seeking a public platform to “flaunt it” childish in the extreme of course!!!!!!!.
I don’t think the average gay person actually wants to “flaunt” their sexuality any more or less than the average straight person. Our whole society is much much more vocal about sex and sexuality than would have been the norm even twenty years ago (whether you think that’s a good thing or a bad thing is a separate issue). Contemporary ‘straight’ sexuality is hardly a model of decorum, moderation or restraint either, is it?
“two months after the Soviets launched Sputnik into space, a military agency tasked with mapping the skies would apply its precious resources towards expelling a highly-trained, competent, and loyal employee.”
And today, those same important agencies in the face of various crises and an increasingly aggressive China, apply resources to pride month, politically correct speech, diversity chiefs and expelling highly-trained, competent employees who go against the unstated religion of wokeism and “equity.”
Plus ça change, indeed.
But sadly, some things do change.
There was a time when gay activists were: a group of “well dressed” and “very well behaved” men with genuine courage and guts.
Now, we have the sort of “activists” highlighted in the picture at the top, preening, vulgar, clutching on to victimhood and prone to be “offended”
Interesting history. As usual it seems history is distorted to meet the political needs of the dominant clique of the present.
And a lesson missed … that there are courageous and principled people who may be different to you, hold different opinions to you, but still admirable, like Mr Kameny, who I had never heard of.
Never heard of the guy. Thanks for the history lesson.
NB. I would show this article to those who equate the fight for trans rights to the one for gay rights of old, but then, as the author states, Kameny was too full of privilege – white, Jewish, gay… you name it.
Indeed, in those years Jews were barred from many country clubs and their numbers restricted at Harvard (and Yale?). Not much privilege there …
Fighting for a group’s rights through the courts and using the political system is boring, much better to have blood on the streets; at least that seems to be attitude of many radicals of all political colours. It is men like Mr Kameny who are worthy of our respect, they have tenacity, courage, and patience, and they get things done without alienating large swathes of society. This desire for conflict is the reason that the Suffragists are over-looked in favour of the Suffragettes,.even though they were probably more instrumental in attaining the vote for women.
I remember leaving the premier of the film Pride (Gays & Lesbians support the miners in the time of AIDS) with a young friend. He didn’t understand why most miners union branches had refused money raised by gays/lesbians. He had never had to experience hostility and rejection so it wasn’t on his radar as an explanation.
In the days of ‘gay pride’ – not just tolerated but funded and promoted by the state – it’s good to be reminded that no so long ago men like Kameny (of whom I had never heard) risked everything for equality before the law.
There is a difference between remembering that there was a worse time, versus pretending that today is still as bad as 1900 or that overpampered “victim” groups still face discrimination.
And now, unfortunately, having achieved equal rights in Law in the UK, Stonewall has hitched its flag to transideology, that deeply homophobic and anti-women cause. So very sad for women like me who walked the walk with gay men and lesbians from the mid-1960s.
I have ‘gay’ friends and colleagues who are disgusted by the aggressive, exibitionist sexual depravity publicly flaunted in gay pride processions and propaganda like that portrayed in the picture in this article. Indeed, they are ashamed by such tasteless antics and have no wish to be associated with displays of this kind. They are decent, ordinary citizens who feel no need emulate this so-called ‘activism’; they are ‘invisible’, like most people in the street, who feel no need to force themselves ‘in-your-face’ thus on society. I agree with them.
Indeed, if a heterosexual couple were to be smooching publicly bare to the waist they would probably get arrested so the pendulum has probably swung a long way past equality.
My gay friends feel exactly the same. In fact they put me off going to the Hoe to participate. They said if you dance around celebrating your heterosexuality we’ll do the same. They say all of it now is to sell stuff with rainbows on it, and one threw away a pair of socks he’d bought because unknowingly they had rainbows on them. The pride battle was won many years ago in Britain.
Even a trans woman I’m friendly with refused to attend. She says she’s absolutely fine as she is – she runs a pub.
Same here.
I’ve been hearing this a lot lately. I’m starting to wonder when the trans lobby will start appropriating famous icons such as Napoleon as trans, or Joan of Arc, or Winston Churchill, or Margaret Thatcher, or Michelle Obama.
I believe they already have Joan of Arc!
Here is a list, of which only Chevalier d’Eon can really claim much in the way of fame. At least I heard about him/her before transgender gained much publicity.
https://spectrumoutfitters.co.uk/blogs/spectrum-spotlight/7-famous-trans-people
who actually gives a brass razoo about them and their whining, tedious utterances? I have never heard the word Stonewall uttered in any conversation that I have had in my entire life…. bar out Hunting in Gloucestershire, where, to put it in context jumping a stone wall is like, excuse the pun, that modern ‘ must do….” Taking a fence”….
Haha, good one!
The thing is that every political and or religious movement has its sacred origin story. And its Flag.
But I wonder about flying the rainbow flag for 30 days in June, as two liberal neighbors are doing, versus just one day on July 4 for the national flag of the USA.
I was a kid, living nearby, already reading the news every day. My memories differ from this story.
Homosexuality was semi-accepted by a large-ish segment of society. As long as some effort was made to keep it below the cultural radar no one really cared. Most people had friends and co-workers “like that”. Everyone understood that if you saw a Broadway musical or liked to where nice clothes you were dealing, happily, with homosexuals.
The police in NYC weren’t like that. That night they got out-of-hand, there officers lost control. Specifically they roughed up a “confused kid”, homeless, prone to outrageous clothes and make-up, who many of the patrons of Stonewall had been looking after. Right in front of everyone. These friends of his flipped out, started throwing punches, quickly got the better of the cops and the whole thing exploded into a story much too big (and entertaining) to stay below the radar anymore.
You have to remember that no one had AC in those days. People were just over-heated and pissed off. Summer in the city was like a powder keg.
Kameny’s story is very interesting; he certainly deserves real credit for his struggle. But sometimes throwing punches did the trick more directly.
‘The role of Kameny and other gay rights pioneers has been neglected by many historians, journalists, and cultural influencers, who prefer to locate the origins of the movement for gay equality in “a race riot against the police started by hustling transwomen of colour”.’
Can you name a single historian who thinks that the gay equality movement started at Stonewall? Kameny is a familiar figure to anyone who has spent any time studying gay history. No US gay history course has ever been taught that doesn’t spend substantial time on the Mattachine Society.
Are there non-historians (your “journalists and cultural influencers”) that maybe don’t fully understand the history? I’m sure. Not everyone talking about gay pride on TikTok is incredibly well informed about history, I’m more than willing to grant you. Still, giving specific examples rather than just lumping together nebulous “historians, journalists, and cultural influencers” would vastly improve your argument. Right now it feels like you’re just making up people who don’t exist and getting mad at them.
Which is shame because your point that often times the loudest and most radical voices are the ones we remember, and that we should also remember the role that more moderate reformists played in getting us where we are, is such a good one. It doesn’t need to be couched behind this framing that simply isn’t accurate.
I could care less who started what in the issue of “GAY THIS THAT OR THE OTHER” just please do not involve those of us who do not care /or ask/ for current news on what this particular group of misfits are complaining about now ! they chose thier path ……..now walk it alone ! or with the like minded …….that does not include the general public!!!!!!……..unless of course you are just seeking a public platform to “flaunt it” childish in the extreme of course!!!!!!!.
Wow. Did you really mean to hit “send”?
If so…Why?
I don’t think the average gay person actually wants to “flaunt” their sexuality any more or less than the average straight person. Our whole society is much much more vocal about sex and sexuality than would have been the norm even twenty years ago (whether you think that’s a good thing or a bad thing is a separate issue). Contemporary ‘straight’ sexuality is hardly a model of decorum, moderation or restraint either, is it?