They wanted St Francis of Assisi with an MBA (Ian Forsyth/Getty Images)
I will be baptising four new Christians on Easter morning: two adults, two children. One of the adults asked me about their baptism preparation last week. Traditionally, that is what Lent is for — a period of fasting and reflection before the big day. But he was looking for something else, not altogether specified.
I asked him to imagine he was standing on the edge of a swimming pool. Then I gave him a push in the small of his back. He stumbled forward. The leap of faith often requires a little shove. Yes, there are books to read, courses to attend, things to think about. But like learning to swim, there is only so much you can do from dry ground.
And like learning to swim, faith also involves the prospect of drowning. Baptism isn’t a little bit of genteel water sprinkling. The imagery is one of death and rebirth. It’s a simulated drowning. The old person is destroyed; the new one rises from the waters. Like Neo being unplugged from the Matrix and being reborn into a new reality. Evangelicals are not wrong when they speak of being born again. You can’t fully plan for what that involves. At some level, you just have to take the plunge.
I have been the priest at St Mary, Newington for ten years. This Sunday, I am moving on. A new parish awaits. The skip is full of stuff I remember buying with much excitement, but now looks like pointless trash; the salvation promised by advertising and the shopping centre is so short-lived. And now the removal vans have been — and trashed more of our apparently precious belongings — there are further trips to the local tip, which is rather poignantly located next to the crematorium.
This is where things come when they have stopped working: our fridges and our bodies. The tip and the crem are Good Friday places. This is the wasteland, the valley of the shadow of death. Perhaps one day we should gather here, rather than in a lovely church, to experience the full existential desolation of the crucifixion. Golgotha, the site of the crucifixion, was itself a rubbish dump. A place of human landfill. This is where our dreams come to die.
I have never been especially threatened by atheism. For one thing, atheism is good for business: it helps maintain the tension. Indifference is the real enemy. But also because atheism is assigned a pivotal place in the Christian narrative. The period between 3pm on Friday and dawn on Sunday symbolises my own atheistic imaginings. When He is murdered by the Romans, all the expectation and excitement of Jesus-following is shown up as a terrible, embarrassing mistake. We were conned. He wasn’t the new King after all. Might is right. Oh, I get atheism all right. It’s an essential part of the cycle of Holy Week.
But professional atheists reading this will be sceptical of my identification with their cause. There is a “but” coming. A sleight of hand. As Alice Roberts snarkily told her Twitter followers last Good Friday: “Just a little reminder today. Dead people — don’t come back to life.”
They don’t, of course. But even nature itself sings a very different kind of song. A wander around Kew Gardens, right next to my new church, reveals the natural world coming back to glorious life after the dead of winter. It’s a wholly natural expression of deep Christian instinct: that there is life beyond death. That even death cannot keep life down.
The resurrection of Jesus is not magic. Not “a conjuring trick with bones”, as the great Bishop David Jenkins once put it. It’s an acknowledgement that a life rooted in the eternal will not remain under the heel of perpetual nothingness. Agreed, this is not an empirical statement. I have stepped outside what can be demonstrated naturally. The God I describe is beyond time and space, the author of all things, not one thing among others.
“Blah,” go the atheists. But upon this “blah” I hang my whole life. The God who is there in the person of Jesus is the same one in whom everything moves and has their being. It’s not that physical death doesn’t happen. It’s just that it doesn’t mean what nihilists believe it means. Hope exists because God exists.
As I leave my old parish, I feel a terrible sense of abandoning my people. It was hard to start with. Ten years ago, I was parachuted in by the Bishop who took pity on me after my resignation from St Paul’s Cathedral. Like all parishes, they wanted St Francis of Assisi with an MBA. What they got was a broken spirit, in hiding from the world. And to start with, many of them didn’t much care for what they got.
I don’t blame them really. I was a mess. Some of them left the church. But slowly we rebuilt and we bonded. Now they are my family, the water of baptism being thicker than the blood of biological relatedness. We have been through everything together: bereavements, deep disappointments, some of the happiest parties you can ever imagine, then the emotional desolation of lockdown. During my ten years here, some of the post-war estates have been demolished and new more expensive and private developments have taken their place. As gentrification spread, our congregation has become much younger and whiter.
Last week, I buried Mr Jones, a man of great dignity and wisdom. Originally from Accra in Ghana, he worked as a civil servant in international development. He lay in church in an open casket, in a grey suit and a white bow tie. He loved his family and would read the Bible every day. He was old-school, the “Jesus loves me this I know” kind of Christian. The church was packed. The service was “done properly”. We sang ‘Abide with Me’: “Change and decay in all around I see, O thou who changest not abide with me.”
Our new church intake looks very different. Apart from being younger and whiter, they were not raised in the faith. There were fewer infant baptisms for this generation. Here, faith is a choice not an inheritance. “I wish my parents had done this for me,” said one of the new baptismal candidates. I understand this. Becoming a Christian is much harder to do as an act of choice, more fraught with anxiety.
The generation raised under the aegis of liberalism have to bear the weight of their own choices. This is problematic because to be in a church is to be a part of a family. The idea that you choose your family, choose to be baptised, seems to introduce a strange contractual aspect to this relationship, like taking out a mobile phone contract. I wonder if those “wanting more” in baptism preparation are, on some level, asking me for the small print. Is that how they see the Bible, I wonder? I hope I have helped to disabuse them of this idea.
My old friend Lord Sacks, of blessed memory, made much of this. The Bible speaks of God being bound to His people through covenant not contract. Unlike the contract, the Biblical covenant is a promise — love and be loved, through thick and thin, good times and bad. Even death cannot destroy this love. God is not a service provider in the liberal economy. The Holy Spirit cannot be summoned on Getir.
More is the pity, some might say. I don’t have answers to many of the problems that people bring into this church. I can’t solve the deep poverty that many experience, nor the broken relationships, nor the desperate sense that the world is not responsive to everyone’s deepest needs. I am there to carry them, and they carry me. The church is where you can bring all the stuff that is impossible to solve. And there are advantages to this — it means that we are not frightened of all the stuff that cannot be remedied. We can carry failure. And we can only do this because, as I said before, hope exists because God exists.
When I celebrate Mass here for the final time, I need to remind myself that I am not abandoning people, because it’s not all about me. The only real job of a priest is to point beyond him or herself to that God who, I believe, is the only true ground of lasting hope. In a funny way, I suspect my departure has helped focus that for some of the congregation. Like a small shove in the back.
On Easter Sunday, as dawn breaks over South London, I will light a fire in the crumbling remains of my old church, substantially redesigned by the Luftwaffe, yet unbowed. I will take that fire into church and the first of the day’s baptisms will begin. Clouds of incense will pick up the light now streaming in through the window. The fire will be shared as everyone’s candles are lit. I will cry. Hugs will be shared. The victory over death will be proclaimed.
Later, we will feast on Jollof rice, which is a kind of sacrament of community round these parts. That seems a perfect way to say goodbye. We will always be family. Water is thicker than blood.
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SubscribeThe more of these hits pieces I see pop up all across the more I am inclined to see this crusty old champagne socialist as correct that he is a victim of a campaign backed by the lobby. Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.
Yes, why the sudden urge to overthrow him now? The Wall is over forty years old and its theme was fascism. I believe we are living in a time where people assume that by discussing something distasteful then by default you automatically are that something, much like professors who teach nineteenth-century literature and are then branded as racist when reading out the n-word from a Twain novel.
“Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.”
When The Wall came out there was an actual wall keeping people locked into totalitarian states. Now the shrillest, most totalitarian voices come from the Waters-aligned wing of the Labour Party. The irony would be sweet if it weren’t so bitter.
Wright? Richard Wright? Where’s the disclaimer that you’re Waters’ old band mate? Full disclosure, etc. And being dead’s no excuse.
Yes I largely agree and believe his intention is to criticise Israel’s foreign policy, but floating a large inflatable pig with a star of david on it during concerts? What the hell was he thinking? He should have chosen a symbol evocative of those policies (like some army sign?) not one that’s been used to represent Jews as a race..
I guess you missed the part about antisemitism.
Instead of worrying why so many people experess anti-Semitic sentinents–and many do–it will be incumbent upon the Jews to ask the question why this phenomenon persists. As Freud said, there is no effect without a cause. What is causing this perpetual pandemic?
They’re a convenient scapegoat. I suspect most people don’t even know why they’re antisemetic.
A certain part of the middle class like to blame some group for their under achievement according to their exalted opinion of their abilities and worth to society.
They’re a convenient scapegoat. I suspect most people don’t even know why they’re antisemetic.
A certain part of the middle class like to blame some group for their under achievement according to their exalted opinion of their abilities and worth to society.
Instead of worrying why so many people experess anti-Semitic sentinents–and many do–it will be incumbent upon the Jews to ask the question why this phenomenon persists. As Freud said, there is no effect without a cause. What is causing this perpetual pandemic?
We didn’t say or do anything to discourage Waters’ weirdness because we did not know better, and we did not know him better.
I loathe it when rock artists like Bono or Waters’ friend “Have a Cigar “Roy Harper hold forth on self righteous politics, and mistake undying fan love as vindication. And Waters definitely has elements of this. But on the Wall, the character who becomes the fascist in In the Flesh part 2 is loathsome precisely because he picks on Jews and black people dismissing them as “riff raff into the room”. This is surely a character who stands in sharp contrast to everything Waters is aiming at, which is one who ends up without barriers to others; who has teared down the wall.
Yes, why the sudden urge to overthrow him now? The Wall is over forty years old and its theme was fascism. I believe we are living in a time where people assume that by discussing something distasteful then by default you automatically are that something, much like professors who teach nineteenth-century literature and are then branded as racist when reading out the n-word from a Twain novel.
“Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.”
When The Wall came out there was an actual wall keeping people locked into totalitarian states. Now the shrillest, most totalitarian voices come from the Waters-aligned wing of the Labour Party. The irony would be sweet if it weren’t so bitter.
Wright? Richard Wright? Where’s the disclaimer that you’re Waters’ old band mate? Full disclosure, etc. And being dead’s no excuse.
Yes I largely agree and believe his intention is to criticise Israel’s foreign policy, but floating a large inflatable pig with a star of david on it during concerts? What the hell was he thinking? He should have chosen a symbol evocative of those policies (like some army sign?) not one that’s been used to represent Jews as a race..
I guess you missed the part about antisemitism.
We didn’t say or do anything to discourage Waters’ weirdness because we did not know better, and we did not know him better.
I loathe it when rock artists like Bono or Waters’ friend “Have a Cigar “Roy Harper hold forth on self righteous politics, and mistake undying fan love as vindication. And Waters definitely has elements of this. But on the Wall, the character who becomes the fascist in In the Flesh part 2 is loathsome precisely because he picks on Jews and black people dismissing them as “riff raff into the room”. This is surely a character who stands in sharp contrast to everything Waters is aiming at, which is one who ends up without barriers to others; who has teared down the wall.
The more of these hits pieces I see pop up all across the more I am inclined to see this crusty old champagne socialist as correct that he is a victim of a campaign backed by the lobby. Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.
Roger Waters illustrates the truth of the Horseshoe Theory. Communism really is fascism. It’s that simple.
Nothing is that simple. With the possible exception of you, Dickie.
Where have you been “Thorax”? We’ve missed you.
It really is that simple. Just like you, Rubber.
Look. Rubber. Roger Walters is avowedly of the Corbynite left. He’s also an anti-semite, as you yourself rightly say in another comment. I’m sure you will agree on these two things:-
(i) The Corbynite left, where not avowedly communist as some of it is, shares affinities with and has sympathies for communism;
(ii) Anti-semitism is to say the least a significant marker of the presence of fascism.
I think it’s also safe to say, Rubber, that Roger Waters is merely an exemplar, and that his left-wing fascism is pervasive throughout a significant minority if not the majority of the Corbynite left.
So if your accusation is merely one of hyperbole or guilt by association, or imprecision, guilty as charged, Rubber. I just happen to think that “communism is fascism” captures the underlying essence of the matter, even if I could have put the matter more precisely, e.g. “Roger Waters typifies the fascism of the Corbynite left”.
Where have you been “Thorax”? We’ve missed you.
It really is that simple. Just like you, Rubber.
Look. Rubber. Roger Walters is avowedly of the Corbynite left. He’s also an anti-semite, as you yourself rightly say in another comment. I’m sure you will agree on these two things:-
(i) The Corbynite left, where not avowedly communist as some of it is, shares affinities with and has sympathies for communism;
(ii) Anti-semitism is to say the least a significant marker of the presence of fascism.
I think it’s also safe to say, Rubber, that Roger Waters is merely an exemplar, and that his left-wing fascism is pervasive throughout a significant minority if not the majority of the Corbynite left.
So if your accusation is merely one of hyperbole or guilt by association, or imprecision, guilty as charged, Rubber. I just happen to think that “communism is fascism” captures the underlying essence of the matter, even if I could have put the matter more precisely, e.g. “Roger Waters typifies the fascism of the Corbynite left”.
Nothing is that simple. With the possible exception of you, Dickie.
Roger Waters illustrates the truth of the Horseshoe Theory. Communism really is fascism. It’s that simple.
There are a number of heavy claims in this item about what Waters thinks, but they aren’t linked to any source material. Yes, this certainly comes off as a hit piece. UnHerd can do better.
There are a number of heavy claims in this item about what Waters thinks, but they aren’t linked to any source material. Yes, this certainly comes off as a hit piece. UnHerd can do better.
Oh great, Unherd has started publishing hit-pieces from nobodies on musicians who hold unpopular opinions. Guess it’s time to reconsider my subscription.
Thank you for expressing your opinion freely. I disagree. RW does not hold unpopular opinions he uses his platform to scream hatred based on total falsehoods. He is a sworn enemy of truth and peace. RW is screaming “fire” in crowded theatres. Jew hatred is a real thing. His tirades embolden and encourage attacks on Jews. Fact.
Separating the artist from his views does not apply here as they are one and the same thing. This article deserves its place in Unherd. It reports clearly how RW uses the platform his music has given him and the varied reactions of those who are not sickened enough by his bile spewing to adulate his performance.
It is fascinating to read the justifications the acolytes give for continuing to give his vile platform support.
You (and a few others) seem to have difficulty distinguishing attitudes to jews and zionism
Opposing the actions (not the existence) of the state of Israel and supporting the rights of Palestinians to their own homeland does not make one an anti-semite. Many do indeed seem to have difficulty distinguishing these two notions.
Opposing the actions (not the existence) of the state of Israel and supporting the rights of Palestinians to their own homeland does not make one an anti-semite. Many do indeed seem to have difficulty distinguishing these two notions.
Certainly agree with these well-stated views. Waters’ right to scream his opposition to Israel’s policies and actions towards the Palestinians is a given but calling into question that country’s right to exist — as he does — must be roundly condemned. As said, such tirades assuredly encourage attacks on Jews.
You (and a few others) seem to have difficulty distinguishing attitudes to jews and zionism
Certainly agree with these well-stated views. Waters’ right to scream his opposition to Israel’s policies and actions towards the Palestinians is a given but calling into question that country’s right to exist — as he does — must be roundly condemned. As said, such tirades assuredly encourage attacks on Jews.
See ya.
Bye, Bye.
Thank you for expressing your opinion freely. I disagree. RW does not hold unpopular opinions he uses his platform to scream hatred based on total falsehoods. He is a sworn enemy of truth and peace. RW is screaming “fire” in crowded theatres. Jew hatred is a real thing. His tirades embolden and encourage attacks on Jews. Fact.
Separating the artist from his views does not apply here as they are one and the same thing. This article deserves its place in Unherd. It reports clearly how RW uses the platform his music has given him and the varied reactions of those who are not sickened enough by his bile spewing to adulate his performance.
It is fascinating to read the justifications the acolytes give for continuing to give his vile platform support.
See ya.
Bye, Bye.
Oh great, Unherd has started publishing hit-pieces from nobodies on musicians who hold unpopular opinions. Guess it’s time to reconsider my subscription.
It’s becoming increasingly clear that protest is under attack and being labelled as an anti semite is par for the course.
I have attended Roger’s concerts for decades including This Is Not A Drill last year and I simply do not understand what this woman is saying. Of course he is opinionated, it’s who he is and his audience understands this but anti semitic because he is passionate about the plight of ordinary, powerless Palestinians!! It’s become an easy slur to lob at anyone.
No, antisemitic because he loves conspiracy theories about Jewish cabals controlling the world. 5hays pretty much the definition of antisemitism.
You may be a stopped clock, Rubber, but once a day your time comes round to get something right, and once in a blue moon you actually seize the opportunity. It is like the flower in the desert, which blooms one morning every century.
You may be a stopped clock, Rubber, but once a day your time comes round to get something right, and once in a blue moon you actually seize the opportunity. It is like the flower in the desert, which blooms one morning every century.
No, antisemitic because he loves conspiracy theories about Jewish cabals controlling the world. 5hays pretty much the definition of antisemitism.
It’s becoming increasingly clear that protest is under attack and being labelled as an anti semite is par for the course.
I have attended Roger’s concerts for decades including This Is Not A Drill last year and I simply do not understand what this woman is saying. Of course he is opinionated, it’s who he is and his audience understands this but anti semitic because he is passionate about the plight of ordinary, powerless Palestinians!! It’s become an easy slur to lob at anyone.
You know our days are numbered when even mega-rich rock stars brandish bogus victim credentials.
I haven’t listened to Roger’s music that he’s made since he left Floyd (and tried to prevent those he’d left behind from continuing). It may well be that I’ve missed a treat, but there’s lots of great music that I’m still discovering, so I’ll probably survive.
While I don’t mind what a performer’s views are, I can’t help thinking it better to let the songs do the talking and save the sloganeering for when you’re having a drink with indulgent friends.
Whilst being entitled to their views, the idea that musicians are any more politically savvy than anyone else is ridiculous. The MSM pander to their views because they’re famous, but anyone who’d be influenced by them is a halfwit.
The most egregious example is, of course, Bono, friend of popes and invited to the WEF. FFS
And Kanye West.
And Kanye West.
Whilst being entitled to their views, the idea that musicians are any more politically savvy than anyone else is ridiculous. The MSM pander to their views because they’re famous, but anyone who’d be influenced by them is a halfwit.
The most egregious example is, of course, Bono, friend of popes and invited to the WEF. FFS
I haven’t listened to Roger’s music that he’s made since he left Floyd (and tried to prevent those he’d left behind from continuing). It may well be that I’ve missed a treat, but there’s lots of great music that I’m still discovering, so I’ll probably survive.
While I don’t mind what a performer’s views are, I can’t help thinking it better to let the songs do the talking and save the sloganeering for when you’re having a drink with indulgent friends.
You know our days are numbered when even mega-rich rock stars brandish bogus victim credentials.
“Few fans willing to discuss his antisemitism”.
I have few fans willing to discuss my participation in the Rwanda genocide.
I guess this article is a consequence of commitment to free speech, but I find it hard to accept that @TanyaGold1 is a useful contributor.
“Few fans willing to discuss his antisemitism”.
I have few fans willing to discuss my participation in the Rwanda genocide.
I guess this article is a consequence of commitment to free speech, but I find it hard to accept that @TanyaGold1 is a useful contributor.
Cancellation (targeted de-platforming, ostracization, and boycotting, often using threats and violence, for ‘unorthodox’ or ‘controversial’ beliefs) – whether they’re left wing or right wing – is real, and it is a problem. But ranting like a paranoid schizophrenic about how you’re being ‘cancelled’ while performing at the O2 arena, one of Britain’s largest concert venues, and have a steady income from your millions of fans and listeners worldwide takes the mick a bit.
People opposing your beliefs does not inherently amount to cancellation, and since Israel is an extremely controversial topic, and Waters makes a conscious effort to go about the matter in a very brash way, there will of course be opposition – he’s a shock jock after all. Whether this opposition has a point or not is another matter, but this does not amount to a worldwide conspiracy to unperson him.
Perhaps we should have seen it coming that the ultra-successful would eventually co-opt the term to make it look like there’s a conspiracy against them when confronted with any opposition.
Cancellation (targeted de-platforming, ostracization, and boycotting, often using threats and violence, for ‘unorthodox’ or ‘controversial’ beliefs) – whether they’re left wing or right wing – is real, and it is a problem. But ranting like a paranoid schizophrenic about how you’re being ‘cancelled’ while performing at the O2 arena, one of Britain’s largest concert venues, and have a steady income from your millions of fans and listeners worldwide takes the mick a bit.
People opposing your beliefs does not inherently amount to cancellation, and since Israel is an extremely controversial topic, and Waters makes a conscious effort to go about the matter in a very brash way, there will of course be opposition – he’s a shock jock after all. Whether this opposition has a point or not is another matter, but this does not amount to a worldwide conspiracy to unperson him.
Perhaps we should have seen it coming that the ultra-successful would eventually co-opt the term to make it look like there’s a conspiracy against them when confronted with any opposition.
“I’m not sure how many Corbynites can afford the O2”
Really? Tanya has a tendency to be a bit snide.
A bit?
A bit?
“I’m not sure how many Corbynites can afford the O2”
Really? Tanya has a tendency to be a bit snide.
Everything is anti-Semite if you question anything! Trying call him a conspiracist, racist, this only happens when either the journalist is a young inexperienced uni grad, or when there is truth and the establishment need to try and push people down. I was at this show and I can tell you most of this article is utter nonsense! This guy is questioning strong and powerful governments, trying to better the lives of those who cannot speak! So easy to put slur on his character, but the real racist is the journalist who completely ignores Palestinian plight to be free and free humanly.
Everything is anti-Semite if you question anything! Trying call him a conspiracist, racist, this only happens when either the journalist is a young inexperienced uni grad, or when there is truth and the establishment need to try and push people down. I was at this show and I can tell you most of this article is utter nonsense! This guy is questioning strong and powerful governments, trying to better the lives of those who cannot speak! So easy to put slur on his character, but the real racist is the journalist who completely ignores Palestinian plight to be free and free humanly.
Something always worth remembering about Roger Waters and his followers. When “Rare protests erupt[ed] against Hamas’ 12-year rule over Gaza,” the theme of the protests was “I want to live with dignity.”
That was March 19th, 2019.
Roger Waters and Jeremy Corbyn maintained a stoic silence that day, not so much as mentioning the Palestinians again until after Gaza’s rulers had brutalized the peaceful protesters back into submission.
Something always worth remembering about Roger Waters and his followers. When “Rare protests erupt[ed] against Hamas’ 12-year rule over Gaza,” the theme of the protests was “I want to live with dignity.”
That was March 19th, 2019.
Roger Waters and Jeremy Corbyn maintained a stoic silence that day, not so much as mentioning the Palestinians again until after Gaza’s rulers had brutalized the peaceful protesters back into submission.
The insane defenestration of Roger Waters is a good example of the Right using the tactics of the Woke to cancel a dissenter.
Roger Waters is a socialist who supports the Palestinians, BDS movement, and Jeremy Corbyn. He is against fascism and all other forms of tyranny, the policies of the current Israeli government and most importantly the war in Ukraine. This does not make him an antisemite but the people who are against the things he is for must call him one to silence him. It is so much easier to just cancel someone than engage with their ideas and allow debate. It is easier to convince yourself that he mustn’t be allowed to express his ideas because people might start agreeing with him. He is a famous rock star, and he might influence people. He must be stopped.
So, use guilt by association and ridiculous distortions of his ideas, gin up hysterical outrage and every time he says Israel substitute Jew to turn him into a villain. Then you don’t have to talk about the occupation of the West Bank, the war in Ukraine and the devastation that neo-liberalism has wrought.
There is no difference between what supporters of Israel are doing to Roger Waters and what trans-activist have done to JK Rowling.
Ideas, Woke or otherwise, aren’t the problem, the stifling of debate and suppression of dissent is.
There’s a contradiction there in your description of Waters’ views: history has shown that being a socialist is supporting tyranny. State control of commerce/finance/industry, which is what socialism is, necessarily involves tyranny. One can be deluded, call oneself a “socialist” and fancy that one is opposed to all forms of tyranny, but that is a delusion. Perhaps Waters suffers from this delusion, perhaps not, but objectively, if he’s a socialist, he supports tyranny.
He definitely suffers from this delusion
He definitely suffers from this delusion
There’s a contradiction there in your description of Waters’ views: history has shown that being a socialist is supporting tyranny. State control of commerce/finance/industry, which is what socialism is, necessarily involves tyranny. One can be deluded, call oneself a “socialist” and fancy that one is opposed to all forms of tyranny, but that is a delusion. Perhaps Waters suffers from this delusion, perhaps not, but objectively, if he’s a socialist, he supports tyranny.
The insane defenestration of Roger Waters is a good example of the Right using the tactics of the Woke to cancel a dissenter.
Roger Waters is a socialist who supports the Palestinians, BDS movement, and Jeremy Corbyn. He is against fascism and all other forms of tyranny, the policies of the current Israeli government and most importantly the war in Ukraine. This does not make him an antisemite but the people who are against the things he is for must call him one to silence him. It is so much easier to just cancel someone than engage with their ideas and allow debate. It is easier to convince yourself that he mustn’t be allowed to express his ideas because people might start agreeing with him. He is a famous rock star, and he might influence people. He must be stopped.
So, use guilt by association and ridiculous distortions of his ideas, gin up hysterical outrage and every time he says Israel substitute Jew to turn him into a villain. Then you don’t have to talk about the occupation of the West Bank, the war in Ukraine and the devastation that neo-liberalism has wrought.
There is no difference between what supporters of Israel are doing to Roger Waters and what trans-activist have done to JK Rowling.
Ideas, Woke or otherwise, aren’t the problem, the stifling of debate and suppression of dissent is.
I saw Waters’ Radio KAOS tour back in ‘80 something. See, I was really there .
And he went into an onstage political diatribe of some sort back then as well. Such behavior has always been his weakness.
We do well to remember this is the man who spit on a heckler during a Montreal show; which was the genesis of The Wall. His story, not mine. The man comes as advertised: great artist; and surely a bit of a moron.
I saw Waters’ Radio KAOS tour back in ‘80 something. See, I was really there .
And he went into an onstage political diatribe of some sort back then as well. Such behavior has always been his weakness.
We do well to remember this is the man who spit on a heckler during a Montreal show; which was the genesis of The Wall. His story, not mine. The man comes as advertised: great artist; and surely a bit of a moron.
Roger Waters didn’t like his own band, despite it being one of the greatest of the 20th century, and it’s members being, by most accounts, thoroughly decent people.
Roger Waters didn’t like his own band, despite it being one of the greatest of the 20th century, and it’s members being, by most accounts, thoroughly decent people.
The increasing insanity of Zionist propaganda is, hopefully, a harbinger of its demise.
The increasing insanity of Zionist propaganda is, hopefully, a harbinger of its demise.
“To inhabit something, to impersonate it, is to control it.”
Great definition of men cosplaying womanhood.
Brilliant observation.
Brilliant observation.
“To inhabit something, to impersonate it, is to control it.”
Great definition of men cosplaying womanhood.
“Waters believes that a Jewish conspiracy overthrew Jeremy Corbyn, fixed the result of the 2019 general election, and controls Keir Starmer”
Can the writer at least provide the evidence or source of the evidence for such a sweeping generalised statement?
“Waters believes that a Jewish conspiracy overthrew Jeremy Corbyn, fixed the result of the 2019 general election, and controls Keir Starmer”
Can the writer at least provide the evidence or source of the evidence for such a sweeping generalised statement?
Lolz was this comment thread curated by the BDS, PLO, or both. Roger Waters is a very talented multimillionaire t**t who unfortunately indulges in 19th Century Protocols of the Elders of Zion conspiracy thinking. As for Palestinians, they did not exist as the modern construct “Palestinians” in ‘48 when the war their leaders continue to perpetuate was first lost; and their biggest problem is not the only functional democracy in that region and the repeated invitations to become part of it or create their own, but continuing to choose to be the puppets of Iranian and Arab instigators whose stated primary goal is genocide of all the Jews so they can take all that’s been built.
Lolz was this comment thread curated by the BDS, PLO, or both. Roger Waters is a very talented multimillionaire t**t who unfortunately indulges in 19th Century Protocols of the Elders of Zion conspiracy thinking. As for Palestinians, they did not exist as the modern construct “Palestinians” in ‘48 when the war their leaders continue to perpetuate was first lost; and their biggest problem is not the only functional democracy in that region and the repeated invitations to become part of it or create their own, but continuing to choose to be the puppets of Iranian and Arab instigators whose stated primary goal is genocide of all the Jews so they can take all that’s been built.
I’ve long suspected his anti-semitism has something to do with his hatred of David Gilmour. It has become increasingly intense since Gilmour married Polly Samson.
As for the plodding and over-portentous music well, OK, if you like that sort of thing. But Donald Fagen he ain’t.
I’ve long suspected his anti-semitism has something to do with his hatred of David Gilmour. It has become increasingly intense since Gilmour married Polly Samson.
As for the plodding and over-portentous music well, OK, if you like that sort of thing. But Donald Fagen he ain’t.
A scattershot disparagement by Gold that shows Waters in a prevailingly cloudy-to-dim overall light. I admit I’m inclined to extend more latitude to an musician whose work I admire–as I do Waters and Pink Floyd–but I don’t think this ranting while claiming cancellation is a good act. Suffering some professional consequences for running your mouth too freely is not cancellation.
The outlook expressed in the lyrics of Roger Waters has always had brooding, even dystopian overtones. But he can’t expect much charity from his targets and detractors when he takes such denunciatory, extreme stances on Israel, etc. He’s doing ok for a 79-year-old rock act, but I think he’d be doing better for himself and the world if he kept more of his beliefs and feelings in musical form instead of turning shows partly into public rants about how he’s being silenced. Then again, that kind of old man versus the wicked world ranting–not totally distinct in tone from his younger act–may be gaining him a whole new audience, even as others distance themselves from the dark spectacle.
A scattershot disparagement by Gold that shows Waters in a prevailingly cloudy-to-dim overall light. I admit I’m inclined to extend more latitude to an musician whose work I admire–as I do Waters and Pink Floyd–but I don’t think this ranting while claiming cancellation is a good act. Suffering some professional consequences for running your mouth too freely is not cancellation.
The outlook expressed in the lyrics of Roger Waters has always had brooding, even dystopian overtones. But he can’t expect much charity from his targets and detractors when he takes such denunciatory, extreme stances on Israel, etc. He’s doing ok for a 79-year-old rock act, but I think he’d be doing better for himself and the world if he kept more of his beliefs and feelings in musical form instead of turning shows partly into public rants about how he’s being silenced. Then again, that kind of old man versus the wicked world ranting–not totally distinct in tone from his younger act–may be gaining him a whole new audience, even as others distance themselves from the dark spectacle.
“These cries have snowballed: the US government and Keir Starmer have pointed out Waters’s antisemitism.”
Well snowflakes at times can build up to snowballs!
“These cries have snowballed: the US government and Keir Starmer have pointed out Waters’s antisemitism.”
Well snowflakes at times can build up to snowballs!
Waters sounds like an old crank, a Rob Reiner spewing Meatheadisms on Twitter. But this article is nearly incoherent. What on Earth is meant by “Sylvia Plath’s “Daddy” for a 79-year-old rock star.” Is “Daddy” supposed to be a verb? The entire article reads like stream of consciousness with a dash of schizophrenia and Adderall.
I think she’s claiming that Waters’s “parodic fascism” is to him as Plath’s poem “Daddy” is to its author. Personally, I was more put off by Tanya Gold referring to her subject as “Rogers” twice in the first paragraph. :¬D
Re Tanya Gold – you can take the ‘journalist’ out of the Guardian but you can’t take the Guardian out of the ‘journalist’. Unherd can surely do better than this.
I think she’s claiming that Waters’s “parodic fascism” is to him as Plath’s poem “Daddy” is to its author. Personally, I was more put off by Tanya Gold referring to her subject as “Rogers” twice in the first paragraph. :¬D
Re Tanya Gold – you can take the ‘journalist’ out of the Guardian but you can’t take the Guardian out of the ‘journalist’. Unherd can surely do better than this.
Waters sounds like an old crank, a Rob Reiner spewing Meatheadisms on Twitter. But this article is nearly incoherent. What on Earth is meant by “Sylvia Plath’s “Daddy” for a 79-year-old rock star.” Is “Daddy” supposed to be a verb? The entire article reads like stream of consciousness with a dash of schizophrenia and Adderall.
Did not the author write a piece defending Woody Allen a while ago?
Poor Woody Allen has been attacked by anti Semites for years now
Poor Woody Allen has been attacked by anti Semites for years now
Did not the author write a piece defending Woody Allen a while ago?
As his psychoanalyst, you shouldn’t be disclosing this confidential stuff in an open journal, Tanya.
As his psychoanalyst, you shouldn’t be disclosing this confidential stuff in an open journal, Tanya.
You know, the first cancel culture heresy-level whisper campaign I ever intuited was by the Israeli lobby, 20 years ago. You weren’t allowed to criticize anything about Israel’s policies for fear of being morally responsible for the Holocaust. First time I read the slur of “self-hating Jew.” I heard plenty of thinly veiled racism at the time, without the gasping of sacrilege. But God forbid you suggest that “hurt people, hurt people,” that the Palestinians didn’t have anything to do with the Holocaust, that Germany should have given Bavaria to the Israel state, and that the Allies handing over the 1900-year-old lands of Palestinians to all Jews as penance for German atrocities was the grossest act of colonialist presumption.
As w/ critiques of contemporary anti-racism, I read the work of Black scholars as a check on my biases, as I’ve read the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews who likewise are concerned about Zionist policies & the power of The Lobby. To treat any group as sacrosanct is to dehumanize them by another name. I refuse to do it, and thank God I stand w/ the many Jewish authors & activists who feel the same.
Who is this “You” that wasn’t allowed to criticise anything about Israel’s policies? Criticism of Israel, Zionism and Jewish influence in general has been going for decades regardless of accusations about Holocaust responsibility. Criticism of Palestinians though – now that looks like a real taboo area (for the Left in particular). Are they sacrosanct or do they just have ordinary run-of-the-mill victim status? Incidentally, I note that the “dehumanise” charge is often made by opponents of affirmative action with regard to blacks.
I gather from your tone that you are so well informed that we must not dare contradict you – but anyway: those black scholars you read and “the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews”– could you be taking on board their biases?
Black scholars have no biases . And surely it’s racist to suggest otherwise .
There are many decent and upstanding black scholars, whom it is saddening to see traduced by the open and explicit racism of so-called “Black scholars”.
There are many decent and upstanding black scholars, whom it is saddening to see traduced by the open and explicit racism of so-called “Black scholars”.
He also capitalises “black”, so he’s obviously a woke racist. Thanks for dealing with this.
Black scholars have no biases . And surely it’s racist to suggest otherwise .
He also capitalises “black”, so he’s obviously a woke racist. Thanks for dealing with this.
Who is this “You” that wasn’t allowed to criticise anything about Israel’s policies? Criticism of Israel, Zionism and Jewish influence in general has been going for decades regardless of accusations about Holocaust responsibility. Criticism of Palestinians though – now that looks like a real taboo area (for the Left in particular). Are they sacrosanct or do they just have ordinary run-of-the-mill victim status? Incidentally, I note that the “dehumanise” charge is often made by opponents of affirmative action with regard to blacks.
I gather from your tone that you are so well informed that we must not dare contradict you – but anyway: those black scholars you read and “the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews”– could you be taking on board their biases?
You know, the first cancel culture heresy-level whisper campaign I ever intuited was by the Israeli lobby, 20 years ago. You weren’t allowed to criticize anything about Israel’s policies for fear of being morally responsible for the Holocaust. First time I read the slur of “self-hating Jew.” I heard plenty of thinly veiled racism at the time, without the gasping of sacrilege. But God forbid you suggest that “hurt people, hurt people,” that the Palestinians didn’t have anything to do with the Holocaust, that Germany should have given Bavaria to the Israel state, and that the Allies handing over the 1900-year-old lands of Palestinians to all Jews as penance for German atrocities was the grossest act of colonialist presumption.
As w/ critiques of contemporary anti-racism, I read the work of Black scholars as a check on my biases, as I’ve read the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews who likewise are concerned about Zionist policies & the power of The Lobby. To treat any group as sacrosanct is to dehumanize them by another name. I refuse to do it, and thank God I stand w/ the many Jewish authors & activists who feel the same.
““If you are one of those ‘I love Pink Floyd but I don’t like Roger’s politics’ people,” says an announcer, “you might do well to f**k off to the bar.” But they don’t.”
Probably just as well: there’d be few people left…
““If you are one of those ‘I love Pink Floyd but I don’t like Roger’s politics’ people,” says an announcer, “you might do well to f**k off to the bar.” But they don’t.”
Probably just as well: there’d be few people left…
I blame Syd Barrett…
I blame Syd Barrett…
Thank you Tanya, for this very good, balanced piece. Clearly Waters has a lot of loyal devotees who won’t hear a word said against him, but that is no justification for his repulsive views.
Thank you Tanya, for this very good, balanced piece. Clearly Waters has a lot of loyal devotees who won’t hear a word said against him, but that is no justification for his repulsive views.
Oh
Oh
Self-inflated commenters responding to this piece as if they were the subject of the piece and not Waters … triggered when someone mentions a whiff of antisemitism, convinced it couldn’t *possibly* apply to them.
Self-inflated commenters responding to this piece as if they were the subject of the piece and not Waters … triggered when someone mentions a whiff of antisemitism, convinced it couldn’t *possibly* apply to them.
So ya
Thought ya
Might like to
Go to the show.
To feel that warm thrill of confusion,
That space cadet glow.
I’ve got some bad news for you sunshine,
Pink isn’t well, he stayed back at the hotel
And they sent us along as a surrogate band
We’re gonna find out where you fans* really stand.
Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
Get them up against the wall!
There’s one in the spotlight, he don’t look right to me,
Get him up against the wall!
That one looks Jewish!
And that one’s a c**n!
Who let all of this riff-raff into the room?
There’s one smoking a joint,
And another with spots!
If I had my way,
I’d have all of you shot!
So ya
Thought ya
Might like to
Go to the show.
To feel that warm thrill of confusion,
That space cadet glow.
I’ve got some bad news for you sunshine,
Pink isn’t well, he stayed back at the hotel
And they sent us along as a surrogate band
We’re gonna find out where you fans* really stand.
Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
Get them up against the wall!
There’s one in the spotlight, he don’t look right to me,
Get him up against the wall!
That one looks Jewish!
And that one’s a c**n!
Who let all of this riff-raff into the room?
There’s one smoking a joint,
And another with spots!
If I had my way,
I’d have all of you shot!
I met Waters via his charming mother in law at the time Lady Jean Christie, some years ago: seemed alright if a tad dull…
I met Waters via his charming mother in law at the time Lady Jean Christie, some years ago: seemed alright if a tad dull…
Tanya Gold told lies about Corbyn and now she is telling lies about Waters.
Communism is fascism. Get over it.
Communism is fascism. Get over it.
Tanya Gold told lies about Corbyn and now she is telling lies about Waters.
Nobody cared what Roger Waters said until he questioned the official Russia – Ukraine narrative. Odd that.
Nobody cared what Roger Waters said until he questioned the official Russia – Ukraine narrative. Odd that.
You’ve lost the room, Tanya. It is no longer about bogus claims of anti-Semitism; the EHRC found all of two specific examples in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party, and both of those are subject to judicial review. It is now about mostly bogus threats to free speech; nothing gets you a platform like being deplatformed. So Professor Arif Ahmed’s non-subscription to the IHRA Definition is seen as a positive advantage in the new Free Speech Tsar. Similarly, even The Times and the Daily Telegraph have given rave reviews to Roger Waters. The world moves on. Tanya Gold is a creature out of time.
You have the same name as a gentleman who served a prison sentence for malicious communication and perverting the course of justice. Would you care to comment?
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19262308.blogger-jailed-repeated-online-harassment/
You have the same name as a gentleman who served a prison sentence for malicious communication and perverting the course of justice. Would you care to comment?
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19262308.blogger-jailed-repeated-online-harassment/
You’ve lost the room, Tanya. It is no longer about bogus claims of anti-Semitism; the EHRC found all of two specific examples in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party, and both of those are subject to judicial review. It is now about mostly bogus threats to free speech; nothing gets you a platform like being deplatformed. So Professor Arif Ahmed’s non-subscription to the IHRA Definition is seen as a positive advantage in the new Free Speech Tsar. Similarly, even The Times and the Daily Telegraph have given rave reviews to Roger Waters. The world moves on. Tanya Gold is a creature out of time.
Enough anti semites on the comments below. Corbynites too probably.
Enough anti semites on the comments below. Corbynites too probably.
People who make waves inevitably attract attention. However Roger has got it wrong, I say – the state of jewish protectionism has got well out of hand and merits the resistance given !
People who make waves inevitably attract attention. However Roger has got it wrong, I say – the state of jewish protectionism has got well out of hand and merits the resistance given !