Dogs aren’t humans and see the world very differently than we. They are hierarchical in outlook and won’t be secure unless they know you’re (benignly) in control. Put them in charge of the situation and at worst, they will become insecure, panicked and in the end neurotically aggressive. Anyone who can’t get this through their head has no business keeping a dog. It simply breeds a problem for the rest of us to deal with.
Whilst the same could possibly be suggested of children, there’s an important difference. Children can be almost as feral as dogs, given the opportunity, but there is at least hope they may, in the long run, with succour and guidance, improve. That said, both tend to live in the moment and will wreck anything decent you bring into the house, at least if my dog and kids are any example to judge by.
Love them both in different ways, of course – but being too soft headed with either doesn’t strike me as very sensible.
Very true, but the amount of people you see with their dog walking 10 feet in front of them on a lead indicates that most “dog parents” don’t realise this.
If asked they would assure you that they are in charge, but that the dog “likes” to walk ahead (ie I couldn’t be bothered to train it to walk to heel). What they don’t understand is that no one told the dog, who thinks he’s been put in charge. These dogs are then nervous as they are out of their depth with the responsibility they think they’ve been given.
It’s remarkable how many humans can’t grasp this simple psychological reality, purely because their own ego won’t allow it.
Quite incredible isn’t it? And by the time the dog, out of its depth, does something heinous, the owner usually cops far too little of the blame.
My own hound (a very frisky Viszla/GSP cross) instinctively circles to my left when on a lead and rarely pulls. He’s reminded why he shouldn’t, if he does – a sharp growl from me is all it takes (recalling that “no” means nothing to a dog but a growled “bah!” gets their attention pretty well – you’ve got to talk their language.) Looping his lead back around his hindquarters also helps if he’s persistent, I find. And oh, did we spend time on recall training! All paid off of course. But it’s a bigger commitment than many people realise, to own a dog and do so properly.
My dog knows she has at least to pretend we are equals . If she pulls on the lead it’s usually because she can smell the park and gets excited or she realises we are heading in the direction of the groomer and wants to pull me in the other direction , She wants to do things she likes and avoid things she doesn’t . She doesn’t appear to care much about status and hierarchy .
They are hierarchical in outlook and won’t be secure unless they know you’re (benignly) in control.
Well said. This is precisely why the forbears of today’s dogs were domesticable in the first place: domesticate the leader and you domesticate the pack. The modern wokies who anthropomorphize their dogs and balk at the term “owner” have no clue about biology.
Lol Richard, you describe my dog’s behaviour perfectly. Insecure, hyper-reactive, neurotic and aggressive, with at least twenty nipped victims to her name, to the point where she was nearly seized and destroyed by the police last year, after chasing and biting a passing jogger. At that time, I hasten to add, the dog belonged to an erratic elderly neighbour who had no concept of discipline or control and who would never take responsibility for her own actions, let alone the dog, which had been getting more and more out of control over several years. The dog never knew any stability or consistency in her owner’s behaviour and responded accordingly. In fact, both owner and dog were a notorious and anti-social local nightmare.
The old owner ended up in a care home last autumn, and I somewhat warily took on the dog, but she’s calmed down to the point where people who knew her before don’t recognise her. I don’t claim to be the perfect dog owner, but routine, good diet, plenty of exercise and clear boundaries have made all the difference – and yes, if people can’t grasp those basic principles, they shouldn’t have dogs.
Skip Simonds
2 years ago
“Children and domestic animals are genuinely in need of adult guidance if they are to integrate into the human social fabric. Refusing to provide this isn’t compassion, it’s cowardice.”
Ah, now there’s the rub. Given the current arc of society, at some point the vast majority of all “adults” will be merely older children who have attained the age of majority, have birthed children and obtained domestic animals, but have never been parented themselves. Where then will the “adult guidance” come from?
Lennon Ó Náraigh
2 years ago
If dog “parenting” and real parenting are the same thing, then why not nappies for dogs, to stop them from s**tting everywhere?
Recently in Singapore. Dog licenses. All dogs on leads, powerful breeds eg Alsatians etc muzzled in public. Fine. UK? No dog license. Recent stories of lockdown dogs untrained and now being dumped- vet bills etc. These idiots didn’t think it through did they? Easy to spot untrained dogs everywhere. Huge growth in pestilental unlicensed (untaxed?) commercial dog walkers. Our local green spaces frequently overrun with 8 or 9 dog vans in car parks. Dog shit in bags stinking in bins mar the landscape. ‘He’s only playing’? Nah- your untrained off the lead pooch runs up to me and I’m not going to grin inanely and coo over your damned dog.
Another great essay from Mary. I particularly enjoyed
“the modern world routinely treats consent as an adequate substitute for moral rules: we don’t need to say any action is wrong in an absolute sense, if everyone affected agreed to it”
We should be grateful we still have thinkers like Mary and do more to promote their views.
By contrast, I made the mistake of following the “mainstream view” link to an article written by a “Kenan Professor Emeritus of Philosophy.”
I’ve recently been reading Roger Scruton. The difference in the quality of writing, and rationality of argument, between Mary, Scruton and the Kenan numpty is absolutely stark. Spell check initially made him Kebab Professor Emeritus – much more appropriate.
Margaret Tudeau-Clayton
2 years ago
When my husband and I took on our first pair of labrador puppies (we are now on our third pair), I had next to no experience of dogs. The best advice I was given was simply the importance of the word ‘no’. I can’t say if it is true for kids (as I don’t have any), but it is crucial for both the dog and the human. For my husband love is incompatible with authoirty and he can’t say no: the dogs run rings round him, never come when he calls, or obey. They (mostly) do all three with me as I have been firm from the start. Dogs — and I’m guessing kids — need clear limits and structures, otherwise they are unhappy as well as wild.
Penny Rose
2 years ago
Mary, seriously, bin the dog book and find another one that doesn’t refer to you as a parent. If they’re getting that so wrong, lord only knows what else they are getting wrong also.
Mikey Mike
2 years ago
Thank you, Mary, for saying what needed to be said. If you live in a hipster town like I do, you’ve probably noticed vintage-clothed thirty-something dog parents being walked by their pseudo-progeny seeming miserable in their doggy parenthood. So often they are unable to control the animal whose care is the sublimation of their fear of real responsibility and real parenthood. The dog is supposed to be filling the void but instead it only blurs the void’s boundaries and depth. And pointing that out is impossible. It’s perceived as rude because it is rude because it’s true.
Lori Wagner
2 years ago
Dogs should be dogs. They don’t enjoy being some kind of slave to human emotional needs. That’s why you see free roaming, non-infantilized dogs in Kenya, much happier and better behaved. Also, they know any misbehavior won’t be tolerated.
Brendan O'Leary
2 years ago
Time to bring back the best show that was ever on the telly:
DOG BORSTAL!
Stuart Sutherland
2 years ago
Excellent essay that all prospective dog owners or parents should read!
Davy Humerme
2 years ago
As a late dog owner (through second marriage), I totally agree with the arguments posited here. Mary is right and as Richard points out that dogs really need boundaries. Often i refer to myself as daddy with the dogs though would never use parent in anything other than irony. I would add that we don’t really know that much about whats going on in a dogs brain and that their “thinking” is dominated by the caudate nucleus which is all about reward. See the brilliant book by neuroscientist Greg Berns (How Dogs Love us) In fact said dogs love a cuddle and attentive stroking as a sign of the “pack leaders” love and regard as much as the many treats we give them. The excellent dog trainer Graham Hall (Dogs Behaving Badly) (probably the contemporary Barbara Woodhouse gives excellent advice for the canine challenged rationalist!
Gunner Myrtle
2 years ago
I once said to my sister – who has a child – and a dog – that having a dog must be just like being a parent. Her response was ‘no – you can’t lock your child in the bathroom for 10 hours so you can go to work.’
Melissa Martin
2 years ago
Overheard on our walk. “Mate, this woman, right, she’s negotiatin’ with a Scottish Terrier.” Reader, I was.
Last edited 2 years ago by Melissa Martin
Andrea X
2 years ago
Thank you, Mary.
Jacob Mason
2 years ago
I love you, Mary Harrington.
Moving along…the point about consent and equals in relationship seems spot on to me. Aristotle makes a similar point when taking about friendship in the Ethics – the highest kind of relationship requiring a degree of equality.
Brooke Walford
2 years ago
Absolutely. So you’d be with the French who are OK with ignoring kids from time to time?
Ian Stewart
2 years ago
Thank **** I’m too old to have to think about this, and can take great joy in undermining parental authority through my grandchildren.
I get told to stop by my daughter more than the grandkids do. Setting a bad example apparently.
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago
Dogs learn faster than humans and are mostly better behaved. There. I’ve said it.
Lindsay S
2 years ago
Whilst I agree that dogs are not children, im not sure why Mary chose to include unschooling in this essay as facilitating your childrens learning does not mean your children lack discipline or become feral, i speak from experience on the matter unlike Mary.
Yikes. You went there. So I’ll go there. Others can (even those without children) judge if your children lack discipline, manners, social fluency, etc. and probably do. In other words, whatever shortcomings your parenting style produces in your children, you, the parent, are probably the last person on earth able to recognize them for what they are.
The operative word being “if” your children lack these attributes which you then back up with “you’re probably the last person on earth to recognise them for what they are”. If and probably really stand out there. You know what they say about ASSUMPTION?!? As I said, unschooled doesn’t mean undisciplined nor does it mean uneducated.
If you’re fixated on “if” and “probably” you’re most certainly unwilling to take responsibility for your uncomely appeal to authority. Can I let you in on a little secret? It’s a grotesque breach of social decorum to tell a middle-aged woman without children that she can’t have an opinion about parenting because she isn’t a parent. Not only is that false, it’s ugly.
You can have as many opinions as you like, it’s just when they’re based on nothing more than assumptions, I find they reflect more on you than me. Personally I find making judgements about strangers that you know very little about to be socially questionable behaviour but obviously that’s just me. Unlike you, I have made no assumptions about you, I simply responded to the assumptions you made about and my family based on one tiny nugget of information.
Nice. Let me paraphrase your evasion. “You can’t judge my words based on what I say.”
Marcia McGrail
2 years ago
You got a – Lab – as your first experience with a dog?? Eeouch! Start at the deep end, eh?
Laura Kelly
1 year ago
I’m a little late to the discussion, but I think the dog parent paradigm is perfectly valid. Dogs are just a variety of wolves and, in a natural wolf pack, the alpha pair are, in fact, the parents who boss their adult children around. Dogs are a lot more flexible about pack structure and also more egalitarian. Your average dog pack has multiple loci of dominance; one dog may get the good bed, another is first in line for food, while another may hog the pettings. But when someone like Cesar Milan takes control of a large pack, he is literally taking on the role of the wolf father: he has control of all aspects of the dog’s life. With my four (4!) dogs, my role is half mommy to sweet itty bitty puppies and half imperious Queen of the Dogs.
Suz D
1 year ago
Animals aren’t children. To say so is insulting to both, and to ignore the complexity of both. But neither are they just Pets. I prefer to refer to them as cross-species friendships.
D Hockley
2 years ago
The thing in the photo looks like more dog grandmother than dog mother.
Dogs aren’t humans and see the world very differently than we. They are hierarchical in outlook and won’t be secure unless they know you’re (benignly) in control. Put them in charge of the situation and at worst, they will become insecure, panicked and in the end neurotically aggressive. Anyone who can’t get this through their head has no business keeping a dog. It simply breeds a problem for the rest of us to deal with.
Whilst the same could possibly be suggested of children, there’s an important difference. Children can be almost as feral as dogs, given the opportunity, but there is at least hope they may, in the long run, with succour and guidance, improve. That said, both tend to live in the moment and will wreck anything decent you bring into the house, at least if my dog and kids are any example to judge by.
Love them both in different ways, of course – but being too soft headed with either doesn’t strike me as very sensible.
It is only a matter of time before some people argue for marriage laws to be changed to include their pets.
t
Very true, but the amount of people you see with their dog walking 10 feet in front of them on a lead indicates that most “dog parents” don’t realise this.
If asked they would assure you that they are in charge, but that the dog “likes” to walk ahead (ie I couldn’t be bothered to train it to walk to heel). What they don’t understand is that no one told the dog, who thinks he’s been put in charge. These dogs are then nervous as they are out of their depth with the responsibility they think they’ve been given.
It’s remarkable how many humans can’t grasp this simple psychological reality, purely because their own ego won’t allow it.
Quite incredible isn’t it? And by the time the dog, out of its depth, does something heinous, the owner usually cops far too little of the blame.
My own hound (a very frisky Viszla/GSP cross) instinctively circles to my left when on a lead and rarely pulls. He’s reminded why he shouldn’t, if he does – a sharp growl from me is all it takes (recalling that “no” means nothing to a dog but a growled “bah!” gets their attention pretty well – you’ve got to talk their language.) Looping his lead back around his hindquarters also helps if he’s persistent, I find. And oh, did we spend time on recall training! All paid off of course. But it’s a bigger commitment than many people realise, to own a dog and do so properly.
My dog knows she has at least to pretend we are equals . If she pulls on the lead it’s usually because she can smell the park and gets excited or she realises we are heading in the direction of the groomer and wants to pull me in the other direction , She wants to do things she likes and avoid things she doesn’t . She doesn’t appear to care much about status and hierarchy .
Well said. This is precisely why the forbears of today’s dogs were domesticable in the first place: domesticate the leader and you domesticate the pack. The modern wokies who anthropomorphize their dogs and balk at the term “owner” have no clue about biology.
Lol Richard, you describe my dog’s behaviour perfectly. Insecure, hyper-reactive, neurotic and aggressive, with at least twenty nipped victims to her name, to the point where she was nearly seized and destroyed by the police last year, after chasing and biting a passing jogger. At that time, I hasten to add, the dog belonged to an erratic elderly neighbour who had no concept of discipline or control and who would never take responsibility for her own actions, let alone the dog, which had been getting more and more out of control over several years. The dog never knew any stability or consistency in her owner’s behaviour and responded accordingly. In fact, both owner and dog were a notorious and anti-social local nightmare.
The old owner ended up in a care home last autumn, and I somewhat warily took on the dog, but she’s calmed down to the point where people who knew her before don’t recognise her. I don’t claim to be the perfect dog owner, but routine, good diet, plenty of exercise and clear boundaries have made all the difference – and yes, if people can’t grasp those basic principles, they shouldn’t have dogs.
“Children and domestic animals are genuinely in need of adult guidance if they are to integrate into the human social fabric. Refusing to provide this isn’t compassion, it’s cowardice.”
Ah, now there’s the rub. Given the current arc of society, at some point the vast majority of all “adults” will be merely older children who have attained the age of majority, have birthed children and obtained domestic animals, but have never been parented themselves. Where then will the “adult guidance” come from?
If dog “parenting” and real parenting are the same thing, then why not nappies for dogs, to stop them from s**tting everywhere?
Or somebody following me around with a bag while I do it wherever I please.
Oh, they do have them to catch their pee. Funny site!
Because they learn far faster than human babies.
Recently in Singapore. Dog licenses. All dogs on leads, powerful breeds eg Alsatians etc muzzled in public. Fine. UK? No dog license. Recent stories of lockdown dogs untrained and now being dumped- vet bills etc. These idiots didn’t think it through did they? Easy to spot untrained dogs everywhere. Huge growth in pestilental unlicensed (untaxed?) commercial dog walkers. Our local green spaces frequently overrun with 8 or 9 dog vans in car parks. Dog shit in bags stinking in bins mar the landscape. ‘He’s only playing’? Nah- your untrained off the lead pooch runs up to me and I’m not going to grin inanely and coo over your damned dog.
I am a dog owner and agree with you (and yes, my dog is the best dog in the world).
Never been a problem with trained dogs and responsible owners.
Apart from mine, obviously…
Another great essay from Mary. I particularly enjoyed
“the modern world routinely treats consent as an adequate substitute for moral rules: we don’t need to say any action is wrong in an absolute sense, if everyone affected agreed to it”
We should be grateful we still have thinkers like Mary and do more to promote their views.
By contrast, I made the mistake of following the “mainstream view” link to an article written by a “Kenan Professor Emeritus of Philosophy.”
I’ve recently been reading Roger Scruton. The difference in the quality of writing, and rationality of argument, between Mary, Scruton and the Kenan numpty is absolutely stark. Spell check initially made him Kebab Professor Emeritus – much more appropriate.
When my husband and I took on our first pair of labrador puppies (we are now on our third pair), I had next to no experience of dogs. The best advice I was given was simply the importance of the word ‘no’. I can’t say if it is true for kids (as I don’t have any), but it is crucial for both the dog and the human. For my husband love is incompatible with authoirty and he can’t say no: the dogs run rings round him, never come when he calls, or obey. They (mostly) do all three with me as I have been firm from the start. Dogs — and I’m guessing kids — need clear limits and structures, otherwise they are unhappy as well as wild.
Mary, seriously, bin the dog book and find another one that doesn’t refer to you as a parent. If they’re getting that so wrong, lord only knows what else they are getting wrong also.
Thank you, Mary, for saying what needed to be said. If you live in a hipster town like I do, you’ve probably noticed vintage-clothed thirty-something dog parents being walked by their pseudo-progeny seeming miserable in their doggy parenthood. So often they are unable to control the animal whose care is the sublimation of their fear of real responsibility and real parenthood. The dog is supposed to be filling the void but instead it only blurs the void’s boundaries and depth. And pointing that out is impossible. It’s perceived as rude because it is rude because it’s true.
Dogs should be dogs. They don’t enjoy being some kind of slave to human emotional needs. That’s why you see free roaming, non-infantilized dogs in Kenya, much happier and better behaved. Also, they know any misbehavior won’t be tolerated.
Time to bring back the best show that was ever on the telly:
DOG BORSTAL!
Excellent essay that all prospective dog owners or parents should read!
As a late dog owner (through second marriage), I totally agree with the arguments posited here. Mary is right and as Richard points out that dogs really need boundaries. Often i refer to myself as daddy with the dogs though would never use parent in anything other than irony. I would add that we don’t really know that much about whats going on in a dogs brain and that their “thinking” is dominated by the caudate nucleus which is all about reward. See the brilliant book by neuroscientist Greg Berns (How Dogs Love us) In fact said dogs love a cuddle and attentive stroking as a sign of the “pack leaders” love and regard as much as the many treats we give them. The excellent dog trainer Graham Hall (Dogs Behaving Badly) (probably the contemporary Barbara Woodhouse gives excellent advice for the canine challenged rationalist!
I once said to my sister – who has a child – and a dog – that having a dog must be just like being a parent. Her response was ‘no – you can’t lock your child in the bathroom for 10 hours so you can go to work.’
Overheard on our walk. “Mate, this woman, right, she’s negotiatin’ with a Scottish Terrier.” Reader, I was.
Thank you, Mary.
I love you, Mary Harrington.
Moving along…the point about consent and equals in relationship seems spot on to me. Aristotle makes a similar point when taking about friendship in the Ethics – the highest kind of relationship requiring a degree of equality.
Absolutely. So you’d be with the French who are OK with ignoring kids from time to time?
Thank **** I’m too old to have to think about this, and can take great joy in undermining parental authority through my grandchildren.
I get told to stop by my daughter more than the grandkids do. Setting a bad example apparently.
Dogs learn faster than humans and are mostly better behaved. There. I’ve said it.
Whilst I agree that dogs are not children, im not sure why Mary chose to include unschooling in this essay as facilitating your childrens learning does not mean your children lack discipline or become feral, i speak from experience on the matter unlike Mary.
Yikes. You went there. So I’ll go there. Others can (even those without children) judge if your children lack discipline, manners, social fluency, etc. and probably do. In other words, whatever shortcomings your parenting style produces in your children, you, the parent, are probably the last person on earth able to recognize them for what they are.
The operative word being “if” your children lack these attributes which you then back up with “you’re probably the last person on earth to recognise them for what they are”. If and probably really stand out there. You know what they say about ASSUMPTION?!? As I said, unschooled doesn’t mean undisciplined nor does it mean uneducated.
If you’re fixated on “if” and “probably” you’re most certainly unwilling to take responsibility for your uncomely appeal to authority. Can I let you in on a little secret? It’s a grotesque breach of social decorum to tell a middle-aged woman without children that she can’t have an opinion about parenting because she isn’t a parent. Not only is that false, it’s ugly.
You can have as many opinions as you like, it’s just when they’re based on nothing more than assumptions, I find they reflect more on you than me. Personally I find making judgements about strangers that you know very little about to be socially questionable behaviour but obviously that’s just me. Unlike you, I have made no assumptions about you, I simply responded to the assumptions you made about and my family based on one tiny nugget of information.
Nice. Let me paraphrase your evasion. “You can’t judge my words based on what I say.”
You got a – Lab – as your first experience with a dog?? Eeouch! Start at the deep end, eh?
I’m a little late to the discussion, but I think the dog parent paradigm is perfectly valid. Dogs are just a variety of wolves and, in a natural wolf pack, the alpha pair are, in fact, the parents who boss their adult children around. Dogs are a lot more flexible about pack structure and also more egalitarian. Your average dog pack has multiple loci of dominance; one dog may get the good bed, another is first in line for food, while another may hog the pettings. But when someone like Cesar Milan takes control of a large pack, he is literally taking on the role of the wolf father: he has control of all aspects of the dog’s life. With my four (4!) dogs, my role is half mommy to sweet itty bitty puppies and half imperious Queen of the Dogs.
Animals aren’t children. To say so is insulting to both, and to ignore the complexity of both. But neither are they just Pets. I prefer to refer to them as cross-species friendships.
The thing in the photo looks like more dog grandmother than dog mother.