Social media of course. It gives a megaphone to the moron who used to sit in the pub corner muttering. Journos and commentators make a living complaining about it and by repeating this numpty stuff amplify the noise. Irony! Just turn off notifications and go for a walk folks. Delete apps so you have to reload them if you want to dip in. You’ll find you can’t be bothered.
Yes I see the irony but I think this site is self evidently an ideas discussion site where most people try to argue through issues. Social media sites appear to be something else- fun, entertainment, lightweight or only linking people when they insidiously can be more. I don’t have notifications on for this site and deleted Facebook ( used it only for membership of litter picking group) and don’t do twitter or Instagram. Definitely deleted The Guardian a while ago though and mainly Whatsapp family and a few emails plus read this site. Avidly read books though.
I could tell in horrible detail all about my house build, my experiences with yetis and bear attacks and being shot at by Cambodians…..addictions, beatings, fights with the planning and zoning office…….
Good point. In the 1950s the CND Marches on Aldermaston were peaceful. By the late 1960s demonstrations against Vietnam were violent. Rugby League had no crowd violence but football did. Rugby League is a much tougher sport than football and attracts support from poor areas usually associated with heavy industry. Many American use swear words frequently such as Robert de Niro but compare him with Sir Colin Meads or Willie John McBride who are tough men.
Those Labour supporters who grow in labouring backgrounds in tough areas tend to be polite because they have experience of where impolite words can lead. As Orwell said left wing intellectuals play with fire and do not know it burns. It is the middle class labour type intellectual who tend to start verbal aggression and encourage physical violence but only when they are out of harms way.
Douglas Proudfoot
2 years ago
I notice that calls for civility always increase whenever the left begins to lose arguments. However, the left never hesitates to call anybody who disagrees with them white supremacist racist Na* is. Civility is only intended for Republicans. According to Critical Racist Theory, the words “colorblind” and “meritocracy” are both dog whistles for white supremacy.
Trump’s actual political victories included tax cuts, deregulation, energy independence, the Abraham Accords, between Israel and several Gulf Arab States, and appointing 3 Supreme Court Justices, as well as numerous lower court judges. All of these victories occurred in spite of a 4 year campaign of Russia Hoax lies and 2 Impeachments without any admissible evidence. I would argue the rude tweets helped Trump more than they hurt him, by keeping his base fired up to support him.
“Critical Racist Theory” Splendid modification. Mind if I pinch it off you?
Julian Farrows
2 years ago
Ironically, those who advocate for less civility are often the ones who cry the most when they feel offended.
Last edited 2 years ago by Julian Farrows
Brendan O'Leary
2 years ago
It would be great if the politics-obsessed confined their activities to politics.
However, they have had limited success in the democratic arena so instead have invaded every area of civilian life, via the institutions of state and local government, regulatory authorities, HR departments of big companies, education etc etc.
Anywhere they can exert power and have access to funds without sullying themselves with the dirty, despised business of creating the wealth that props up all these activities..
Chauncey Gardiner
2 years ago
Allow me to pose this idea:
It’s nice to talk about “we” have to de-toxify our political discourse and “depoliticize everything,” but the only agent who is situated to take the toxic politics out of everyday life is the individual! There is no “we” in “I”, “ego”.
But, then note an obstacle: Progressive pronouncements like “The personal is political and the political is personal!” amount to exhortations to abdicate personal responsibility, to blame others (“society”) for one’s discontentments, and then to demand that society make accommodations.
If you’re interested: I develop this point in a short essay that I posted just yesterday on Substack. It’s titled “The Revenge of the Nerds: Critical Theory.” https://dvwilliamson.substack.com/p/the-revenge-of-the-nerds-critical
I particularly liked “allows the victim to become the underdog”
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
FREE THE TRUCKERS!
I did not read this tosh when it began to talk of how Civility is a White Supremacist thing, which minorities have taken up to their own harm….Maybe the writer was just being ironic, but I did not explore as I am off to work.
But I really like the civility of the Canadian Truckers –
V Solar
2 years ago
I give Blake Smith five stars!
Samuel Ross
2 years ago
The uncivil find their voice and power in shrill noise. Fine points of reasoning fall away, and all seems clear. The one who calls names and hurls insults is freed from the mental burden of forming finely-tuned arguments and logical structures. In other words, it saves time and effort both. This, in a nutshell, is the reason for incivility. If it continues, the “uncivil” actually lose their ability to construct finely-reasoned arguments, for obvious reasons.
Jon Hawksley
2 years ago
If you can eliminate incivility so everyone treats everyone else as they wish to be treated themselves you have eliminated discrimination. You just have to stop seeing people as different from yourself.
Actually – the more you get around the more you realize people are not the same. Ever lived with the criminal class? The street addicts? In different lands, and with different peoples? Because the thing you find is everyone is not just as good as everyone else. Same for societies, groups, classes, – what ever people are – they are not just as good as each-other. Under the law? Yes, but in every other way? No.
Social media of course. It gives a megaphone to the moron who used to sit in the pub corner muttering. Journos and commentators make a living complaining about it and by repeating this numpty stuff amplify the noise. Irony! Just turn off notifications and go for a walk folks. Delete apps so you have to reload them if you want to dip in. You’ll find you can’t be bothered.
Whoops- there goes UnHerd…..
Yes I see the irony but I think this site is self evidently an ideas discussion site where most people try to argue through issues. Social media sites appear to be something else- fun, entertainment, lightweight or only linking people when they insidiously can be more. I don’t have notifications on for this site and deleted Facebook ( used it only for membership of litter picking group) and don’t do twitter or Instagram. Definitely deleted The Guardian a while ago though and mainly Whatsapp family and a few emails plus read this site. Avidly read books though.
I have used UnHerd to wean myself off algorithm based online media like YT, Twitter, FB, … So far so good.
So how about Unherd starts a talk forum?
I could tell in horrible detail all about my house build, my experiences with yetis and bear attacks and being shot at by Cambodians…..addictions, beatings, fights with the planning and zoning office…….
LOL, I doubt any of us have that much time on our hands!
“Our age of incivility must end…”
Then somebody needs to tell the political left, because in the UK, that is where 95% of the incivility is coming from and it always has done.
Aware. But there must be a better response than simply rolling over and taking it.
Good point. In the 1950s the CND Marches on Aldermaston were peaceful. By the late 1960s demonstrations against Vietnam were violent. Rugby League had no crowd violence but football did. Rugby League is a much tougher sport than football and attracts support from poor areas usually associated with heavy industry. Many American use swear words frequently such as Robert de Niro but compare him with Sir Colin Meads or Willie John McBride who are tough men.
Those Labour supporters who grow in labouring backgrounds in tough areas tend to be polite because they have experience of where impolite words can lead. As Orwell said left wing intellectuals play with fire and do not know it burns. It is the middle class labour type intellectual who tend to start verbal aggression and encourage physical violence but only when they are out of harms way.
I notice that calls for civility always increase whenever the left begins to lose arguments. However, the left never hesitates to call anybody who disagrees with them white supremacist racist Na* is. Civility is only intended for Republicans. According to Critical Racist Theory, the words “colorblind” and “meritocracy” are both dog whistles for white supremacy.
Trump’s actual political victories included tax cuts, deregulation, energy independence, the Abraham Accords, between Israel and several Gulf Arab States, and appointing 3 Supreme Court Justices, as well as numerous lower court judges. All of these victories occurred in spite of a 4 year campaign of Russia Hoax lies and 2 Impeachments without any admissible evidence. I would argue the rude tweets helped Trump more than they hurt him, by keeping his base fired up to support him.
“Critical Racist Theory”
Splendid modification. Mind if I pinch it off you?
Ironically, those who advocate for less civility are often the ones who cry the most when they feel offended.
It would be great if the politics-obsessed confined their activities to politics.
However, they have had limited success in the democratic arena so instead have invaded every area of civilian life, via the institutions of state and local government, regulatory authorities, HR departments of big companies, education etc etc.
Anywhere they can exert power and have access to funds without sullying themselves with the dirty, despised business of creating the wealth that props up all these activities..
Allow me to pose this idea:
It’s nice to talk about “we” have to de-toxify our political discourse and “depoliticize everything,” but the only agent who is situated to take the toxic politics out of everyday life is the individual! There is no “we” in “I”, “ego”.
But, then note an obstacle: Progressive pronouncements like “The personal is political and the political is personal!” amount to exhortations to abdicate personal responsibility, to blame others (“society”) for one’s discontentments, and then to demand that society make accommodations.
If you’re interested: I develop this point in a short essay that I posted just yesterday on Substack. It’s titled “The Revenge of the Nerds: Critical Theory.”
https://dvwilliamson.substack.com/p/the-revenge-of-the-nerds-critical
I particularly liked “allows the victim to become the underdog”
FREE THE TRUCKERS!
I did not read this tosh when it began to talk of how Civility is a White Supremacist thing, which minorities have taken up to their own harm….Maybe the writer was just being ironic, but I did not explore as I am off to work.
But I really like the civility of the Canadian Truckers –
I give Blake Smith five stars!
The uncivil find their voice and power in shrill noise. Fine points of reasoning fall away, and all seems clear. The one who calls names and hurls insults is freed from the mental burden of forming finely-tuned arguments and logical structures. In other words, it saves time and effort both. This, in a nutshell, is the reason for incivility. If it continues, the “uncivil” actually lose their ability to construct finely-reasoned arguments, for obvious reasons.
If you can eliminate incivility so everyone treats everyone else as they wish to be treated themselves you have eliminated discrimination. You just have to stop seeing people as different from yourself.
Actually – the more you get around the more you realize people are not the same. Ever lived with the criminal class? The street addicts? In different lands, and with different peoples? Because the thing you find is everyone is not just as good as everyone else. Same for societies, groups, classes, – what ever people are – they are not just as good as each-other. Under the law? Yes, but in every other way? No.
I’m still scratching my head over this one.