It sickens me when people just refer to the “organisations” that ignore or shelter paedophiles.
It has always been “individuals” with names and jobs that lacked the moral courage to make the (often small) sacrifices needed to stop the ongoing rape of children.
Whether its Saville or Rotherham, individuals are to blame – and there is no justifiable place for them to hide their complicity.
Last edited 2 years ago by Ian Barton
William Murphy
2 years ago
I am surprised that Tanya does not mention either Irvine Welsh or Jerry Sadowitch.
Welsh wrote a novella “Lorraine goes to Livingstone”, which was published in 1996, around the same time that the movie version of his book “Trainspotting” emerged as a smash hit. Did no one at the BBC read “Lorraine” and notice that its loathsome character Freddie Royle was plainly Savile?
Freddie is a lovable TV star and tireless charity fundraiser who delivers loads of money to Saint Hubbin’s hospital. The managers at Saint Hubbin’s love Fred and don’t ask any awkward questions about what he might be doing with the young patients or the bodies in the morgue (described in horrible detail).
And the merciless and courageous Jerry publicly reviled Savile for years, declaring that the charity work was just earning credit for when his case came up in court.
Last edited 2 years ago by William Murphy
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Clues lay all about us, and yet if we have been told enough that they mean nothing we do not even see them
Like covid – that natural immunity was not allowed to equal the vax showed it all was Nothing to do about Health, that the vax passports, and all else were a sham. That Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine, and about 30 other re-purposed drugs were forbidden to be used or even studied (except in some trials set up to fail) Because if there was treatment it would cause Vaccine Hesitancy – as All Must Get the Vax was the rule from above…That lockdowns did not work as Sweden, Florida, South Dakota showed, but instead they were lied about in the MSM…That whole nations paid the forced lockdown people to not work with borrowed $Trillions, leaving debt the young will be destroyed by – and the super ritch had their wealth double by these $Trillions…. This shows it all was some vast conspiracy.
I wonder about Pedophilia too – Epstein became a Billionaire, but no one knew how. That he had Bill Gates, Clinton, Prince Andrew, and more and more exceedingly important people as his ‘Guests’ is known openly. Also that he was a notorious pedophile, and sex was everywhere when he was around. And that he had everything recorded and filmed….
I think once people achieve a point of power and wealth normal pleasures no longer satisfy them, they are jaded. They have to have more and more extreme things to give them pleasure. I think from things here and there, rumors and such – that pedophile may run in the corridors of power. There is evidence of it throughout history.
And so, I wonder of Q too…. WWG1WGA, is it so unbelievable? Not Pizzagate, but that deep in the vaults of real power are degenerate people who are capable of anything. That Savile was so obviously totally Evil is obvious now, it shouts out – but even back then we could see he was wrong – I remember how creepy he was – and everyone did, yet he succeeded, somehow. He and Epstein….. and all the stories of the real power…. Just something of the WEF, Davos, the ultra wealthy, they just seem creepy.
The clues were so obvious that even my mother saw it. I remember when Jim’ll fix it came on TV she would shout at whoever was watching to turn it off; as it was not exactly something in which I was interested I quickly obliged it I were watching. One time I asked her why she wanted it switched off and she said that Savile is the creapiest man that she’d ever seen, there was something wrong with him and she wouldn’t let him anywhere near any kid of hers.
I was 19 when the show started, and I felt the same, but I couldn’t put my finger on what bothered me about him. I was only dimly aware of paedophilia because a man made off with my sister as a child (she broke free and could run faster).
I was also bothered by some of Stuart Hall’s comments on It’s a Knockout
Thank-you Rodney. I sometimes don’t understand the down-ticking, as often they don’t say why and, as I’ve said before, this is frustrating as it stops any real debate on the site. I never down-tick without saying why I disagree, I think that I owe it to a contributor who may have spent some time getting together his or her thoughts and putting them down here. In fact, I rarely down-tick even if I don’t agree, but I will up-tick to give moral support to a view that I agree with.
I think there should be a protocol that allows you to uptick anything, but only downtick if you provide a response, too.
That way we’d know whether the respondent thinks the post is factually wrong, or correct but they regret the fact.
Why have upticking or downticking at all? What is this? Facebook? Twitter? Those vehicles prove that debate is influenced by what the majority think rather than people thinking for themselves. I never understand why UnHerd has Most Voted as the default sorting of discussion posts. Surely reading in chronological order makes more sense for the claimed philosophy of this vehicle.
You have won me over. I’m going to stop downticking without a comment.
In fact, a large + or – tick number is really meaningless. A bunch of people with a similar view point may have read the comment, and those with a different perspective may have missed it.
I sometimes get a bit upset by a large negative, but I should just ignore it
I find it hard to believe that knowledge of at least some of his activities were not widely known in the entertainment industry and in particular at the BBC
They were. Truth is that lots of musicians back then regularly had sex with young girls, probably a fair few in the back rooms of the BBC. A blind eye was turned because they were all at it. They probably just thought Saville was like the rest, the phrase ‘liked them young’ actually covered up things that would be immediately investigated now.
My mother too. In fact my first memory of Saville is him on TV and my mother expressing her loathing. Totally out of character for her too. My fathers hatred of him was equally visceral. Working class people don’t mince their words.
Did some kind of bizarre tolerance, some mistrust of all healthy instincts, allow us to be taken in.
We may not have all known what he was doing, but he had creep written all over him. Who would trust such a man?
Exactly. As one commentator said, he was a paedo disguised as a paedo. And he was so famous for so long that people thought any dodgy stuff would have emerged years ago. Well, of course it had emerged, but the powers that be were wilfully blind.
I met him on a couple of occasions at charity dinners in London. He was dressed in smart business clothes and I got no sinister vibes off him. Nor did other people involved in the charity. Fortunately his involvement with the charity was limited and I don’t think he had access to the very vulnerable people we helped.
In the comments at the bottom, Billy Smart notes the audience revulsion to Savile even in 1964. As Smart is from the University of Reading, I suspect that he checked out the BBC written archives, which are stored in a very ordinary building at Emmer Green on the north side of Reading.
As a child I was aware that we lived close to where his family still live on a council estate in Leeds. My older sisters were into dancing knew of him from their visits to the Mecca in Leeds where he was a manager, and often warned me to stay away from him. I followed their advice and did, and won a scholarship to a grammar school, and that was my ticket out of there. Many were not so lucky. My sisters, – level-headed working class girls who could spot a phoney at one thousand yards.
SULPICIA LEPIDINA
2 years ago
Let us not forget that the Royal Marines were much in awe of the revolting Savile, awarding him with the coveted ‘Green Beret’ and providing an honour guard/burial party at his funeral.
Whist his gently putrefying carcass was paraded, as in a Roman Triumph around the Yorkshire settlement of Scarborough, the aforesaid Green Beret was placed upon the coffin, resplendent for all to see.
Day of infamy indeed.
Last edited 2 years ago by SULPICIA LEPIDINA
B Pritchard
2 years ago
It has always amazed me that at the same time that Savile was presenting the awful ‘Jim’ll Fix It’ Esther Rantzen was campaigning for children’s rights and establishing Childline elsewhere within the confines of the same institution. To use a modern idiom, could nobody ‘read the room’?
rodney foy
2 years ago
Should we retain and explain any statues of Savile, with plaques detailing his horrendous sex crimes?
Maybe “statues of contrition” should be erected and stay outside the HQ of relevant organisations until they are wound up – then the statues should be moved to museums.
I can’t recall any statues of Savile. His name was hastily erased from the cafe at Stoke Mandeville Hospital. And from a footpath. And his grandiose triple width headstone was removed and utterly destroyed. And his newly published official biography quickly vanished from bookshops.
But fragments of his broadcasting career are out on the Internet. And there is more than enough easily available information on his grotesque career. I wonder if his 1970s autobiography is still obtainable. It apparently contains the shameless boast of bedding 2,500 women. Plainly it was no obstacle to getting a knighthood from the Blessed Margaret and another from Pope St John Paul II.
I’d probably give a pass to John Paul II. Margaret was just doing what she was told was okay. Don’t know, I never heard of him until just before he died and I’m in the states so my opinion is probably worthless.
Margaret repeatedly entertained Savile at Chequers. He was one of the few showbiz people who was openly Conservative. And she kept pushing for him to be knighted in the teeth of opposition from civil servants. Given John Paul II’s blindness to the paedo scandal, including the infamous Marcial Maciel, there is no way I would give him a pass. Though, in the case of Savile, he would probably have taken the word of the English hierarchy, especially Cardinal Basil Hume.
Why would anyone read yet another book that’s come out about Hitler ?
Alison Wren
2 years ago
I met Savile when the youth club I was working in did some kind of show with him. In all my 70plus years I have never seen such cruel, blank eyes. I never understood, even at 27, how anyone would have chosen to watch him.
Ann Ceely
2 years ago
Jimmy Saville needs to be ignored.
I lived in Aylesbury where the hospital sold their souls for money from sexual deviants’ money.
I hate the NHS because their management dismissed all complaints, and, somehow, never got the damages they deserved.
Last edited 2 years ago by Ann Ceely
Ann Ceely
2 years ago
The BBC and ParaOlympics protected Saville!
Don Lightband
2 years ago
WHERE is the evidence for the “rape” claim made in paragraph five?
Where? Certainly Gold will never come forth with it.
Anyone truly curious to get beyond tne hackneyed agitprop of Ms Gold will need to go no further than the vast devotion put into the work of one who actually cares for truth http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.com/?m=1
Don Lightband
2 years ago
Posting this again because Unherd, quite incredibly, instantly drop any real dissent to the very bottom of the comment stack:
WHERE is the evidence for the “rape” claim made in paragraph five?
Where? Certainly Gold will never come forth with it.
Anyone truly curious to get beyond tne hackneyed agitprop of Ms Gold will need to go no further than the vast devotion put into the work of one who actually cares for truth http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.com/?m=1
It sickens me when people just refer to the “organisations” that ignore or shelter paedophiles.
It has always been “individuals” with names and jobs that lacked the moral courage to make the (often small) sacrifices needed to stop the ongoing rape of children.
Whether its Saville or Rotherham, individuals are to blame – and there is no justifiable place for them to hide their complicity.
I am surprised that Tanya does not mention either Irvine Welsh or Jerry Sadowitch.
Welsh wrote a novella “Lorraine goes to Livingstone”, which was published in 1996, around the same time that the movie version of his book “Trainspotting” emerged as a smash hit. Did no one at the BBC read “Lorraine” and notice that its loathsome character Freddie Royle was plainly Savile?
Freddie is a lovable TV star and tireless charity fundraiser who delivers loads of money to Saint Hubbin’s hospital. The managers at Saint Hubbin’s love Fred and don’t ask any awkward questions about what he might be doing with the young patients or the bodies in the morgue (described in horrible detail).
https://dangerousminds.net/comments/irvine_welsh_on_jimmy_savile_was_savile_a_necrophiliac_then_or_what
And the merciless and courageous Jerry publicly reviled Savile for years, declaring that the charity work was just earning credit for when his case came up in court.
Clues lay all about us, and yet if we have been told enough that they mean nothing we do not even see them
Like covid – that natural immunity was not allowed to equal the vax showed it all was Nothing to do about Health, that the vax passports, and all else were a sham. That Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine, and about 30 other re-purposed drugs were forbidden to be used or even studied (except in some trials set up to fail) Because if there was treatment it would cause Vaccine Hesitancy – as All Must Get the Vax was the rule from above…That lockdowns did not work as Sweden, Florida, South Dakota showed, but instead they were lied about in the MSM…That whole nations paid the forced lockdown people to not work with borrowed $Trillions, leaving debt the young will be destroyed by – and the super ritch had their wealth double by these $Trillions…. This shows it all was some vast conspiracy.
I wonder about Pedophilia too – Epstein became a Billionaire, but no one knew how. That he had Bill Gates, Clinton, Prince Andrew, and more and more exceedingly important people as his ‘Guests’ is known openly. Also that he was a notorious pedophile, and sex was everywhere when he was around. And that he had everything recorded and filmed….
I think once people achieve a point of power and wealth normal pleasures no longer satisfy them, they are jaded. They have to have more and more extreme things to give them pleasure. I think from things here and there, rumors and such – that pedophile may run in the corridors of power. There is evidence of it throughout history.
And so, I wonder of Q too…. WWG1WGA, is it so unbelievable? Not Pizzagate, but that deep in the vaults of real power are degenerate people who are capable of anything. That Savile was so obviously totally Evil is obvious now, it shouts out – but even back then we could see he was wrong – I remember how creepy he was – and everyone did, yet he succeeded, somehow. He and Epstein….. and all the stories of the real power…. Just something of the WEF, Davos, the ultra wealthy, they just seem creepy.
Franklin Scandal late 1980s Omaha Nebraska…
The clues were so obvious that even my mother saw it. I remember when Jim’ll fix it came on TV she would shout at whoever was watching to turn it off; as it was not exactly something in which I was interested I quickly obliged it I were watching. One time I asked her why she wanted it switched off and she said that Savile is the creapiest man that she’d ever seen, there was something wrong with him and she wouldn’t let him anywhere near any kid of hers.
I was 19 when the show started, and I felt the same, but I couldn’t put my finger on what bothered me about him. I was only dimly aware of paedophilia because a man made off with my sister as a child (she broke free and could run faster).
I was also bothered by some of Stuart Hall’s comments on It’s a Knockout
Your poor sister. At least she got free, nothing like keeping fit.
Before I upticked you had a downtick 🙁
Thank-you Rodney. I sometimes don’t understand the down-ticking, as often they don’t say why and, as I’ve said before, this is frustrating as it stops any real debate on the site. I never down-tick without saying why I disagree, I think that I owe it to a contributor who may have spent some time getting together his or her thoughts and putting them down here. In fact, I rarely down-tick even if I don’t agree, but I will up-tick to give moral support to a view that I agree with.
They may have thought you were being flippant.
Maybe, but I don’t know.
I think there should be a protocol that allows you to uptick anything, but only downtick if you provide a response, too.
That way we’d know whether the respondent thinks the post is factually wrong, or correct but they regret the fact.
Why have upticking or downticking at all? What is this? Facebook? Twitter? Those vehicles prove that debate is influenced by what the majority think rather than people thinking for themselves. I never understand why UnHerd has Most Voted as the default sorting of discussion posts. Surely reading in chronological order makes more sense for the claimed philosophy of this vehicle.
You have won me over. I’m going to stop downticking without a comment.
In fact, a large + or – tick number is really meaningless. A bunch of people with a similar view point may have read the comment, and those with a different perspective may have missed it.
I sometimes get a bit upset by a large negative, but I should just ignore it
I find it hard to believe that knowledge of at least some of his activities were not widely known in the entertainment industry and in particular at the BBC
They were. Truth is that lots of musicians back then regularly had sex with young girls, probably a fair few in the back rooms of the BBC. A blind eye was turned because they were all at it. They probably just thought Saville was like the rest, the phrase ‘liked them young’ actually covered up things that would be immediately investigated now.
My mother too. In fact my first memory of Saville is him on TV and my mother expressing her loathing. Totally out of character for her too. My fathers hatred of him was equally visceral. Working class people don’t mince their words.
Did some kind of bizarre tolerance, some mistrust of all healthy instincts, allow us to be taken in.
We may not have all known what he was doing, but he had creep written all over him. Who would trust such a man?
Double bluff – he was so obviously and publicly creepy, that everyone assumed that he was OK really: just a wacky entertainer.
“Everyone”.
Not in our house Tony. Working class people lack that nuance, and thankfully, so they say it as they see it.
Exactly. As one commentator said, he was a paedo disguised as a paedo. And he was so famous for so long that people thought any dodgy stuff would have emerged years ago. Well, of course it had emerged, but the powers that be were wilfully blind.
I met him on a couple of occasions at charity dinners in London. He was dressed in smart business clothes and I got no sinister vibes off him. Nor did other people involved in the charity. Fortunately his involvement with the charity was limited and I don’t think he had access to the very vulnerable people we helped.
Check out Andrew O’Hagan’s fascinating 2012 article. Savile was not the only famous molester funded by the licence payer.
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v34/n21/andrew-o-hagan/light-entertainment
In the comments at the bottom, Billy Smart notes the audience revulsion to Savile even in 1964. As Smart is from the University of Reading, I suspect that he checked out the BBC written archives, which are stored in a very ordinary building at Emmer Green on the north side of Reading.
As a child I was aware that we lived close to where his family still live on a council estate in Leeds. My older sisters were into dancing knew of him from their visits to the Mecca in Leeds where he was a manager, and often warned me to stay away from him. I followed their advice and did, and won a scholarship to a grammar school, and that was my ticket out of there. Many were not so lucky. My sisters, – level-headed working class girls who could spot a phoney at one thousand yards.
Let us not forget that the Royal Marines were much in awe of the revolting Savile, awarding him with the coveted ‘Green Beret’ and providing an honour guard/burial party at his funeral.
Whist his gently putrefying carcass was paraded, as in a Roman Triumph around the Yorkshire settlement of Scarborough, the aforesaid Green Beret was placed upon the coffin, resplendent for all to see.
Day of infamy indeed.
It has always amazed me that at the same time that Savile was presenting the awful ‘Jim’ll Fix It’ Esther Rantzen was campaigning for children’s rights and establishing Childline elsewhere within the confines of the same institution. To use a modern idiom, could nobody ‘read the room’?
Should we retain and explain any statues of Savile, with plaques detailing his horrendous sex crimes?
Great question – let’s erect one outside Broadcasting House – with room on the plinth for the names of those who knew and did nothing.
I might vote for that!
I was asking to get my head around the whole statue issue. Does the passage of time make a difference, etc?
Maybe “statues of contrition” should be erected and stay outside the HQ of relevant organisations until they are wound up – then the statues should be moved to museums.
I can’t recall any statues of Savile. His name was hastily erased from the cafe at Stoke Mandeville Hospital. And from a footpath. And his grandiose triple width headstone was removed and utterly destroyed. And his newly published official biography quickly vanished from bookshops.
But fragments of his broadcasting career are out on the Internet. And there is more than enough easily available information on his grotesque career. I wonder if his 1970s autobiography is still obtainable. It apparently contains the shameless boast of bedding 2,500 women. Plainly it was no obstacle to getting a knighthood from the Blessed Margaret and another from Pope St John Paul II.
I’d probably give a pass to John Paul II. Margaret was just doing what she was told was okay. Don’t know, I never heard of him until just before he died and I’m in the states so my opinion is probably worthless.
Margaret repeatedly entertained Savile at Chequers. He was one of the few showbiz people who was openly Conservative. And she kept pushing for him to be knighted in the teeth of opposition from civil servants. Given John Paul II’s blindness to the paedo scandal, including the infamous Marcial Maciel, there is no way I would give him a pass. Though, in the case of Savile, he would probably have taken the word of the English hierarchy, especially Cardinal Basil Hume.
But why would anyone watch it?
Why would anyone read yet another book that’s come out about Hitler ?
I met Savile when the youth club I was working in did some kind of show with him. In all my 70plus years I have never seen such cruel, blank eyes. I never understood, even at 27, how anyone would have chosen to watch him.
Jimmy Saville needs to be ignored.
I lived in Aylesbury where the hospital sold their souls for money from sexual deviants’ money.
I hate the NHS because their management dismissed all complaints, and, somehow, never got the damages they deserved.
The BBC and ParaOlympics protected Saville!
WHERE is the evidence for the “rape” claim made in paragraph five?
Where? Certainly Gold will never come forth with it.
Anyone truly curious to get beyond tne hackneyed agitprop of Ms Gold will need to go no further than the vast devotion put into the work of one who actually cares for truth
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.com/?m=1
Posting this again because Unherd, quite incredibly, instantly drop any real dissent to the very bottom of the comment stack:
WHERE is the evidence for the “rape” claim made in paragraph five?
Where? Certainly Gold will never come forth with it.
Anyone truly curious to get beyond tne hackneyed agitprop of Ms Gold will need to go no further than the vast devotion put into the work of one who actually cares for truth
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.com/?m=1