I once built a Guatemalan guy a Pentecostal Church out of a destroyed building post Hurricane Katrina, for the Central American community (although I was paid well, but I did get to know them a fair bit) – (they later moved into a proper church after the rebuilding of the area – this was right after the hurricane)…
I was very moved by them all, there is a goodness in them. The very young Priest did not speak English, he worked as a concrete finisher, and he had an aura of a holiness about him – I met the American head of their Church, a Bishop from Houston come to open the church for its first service, and again his charisma was astounding. The front of the church had a full band set up, drums, keyboard, guitar and base, and the music was pretty much the Central American Polka kind – very upbeat. A couple times I would come in to do some work and a man would be laying in front of the cross, face down on the floor with his arms spread out in motionless payer, and I would leave.
The most memorable, I listened to a number of their hours long services, all in Spanish, was the Pastor doing a sort of liturgical chant without any music, maybe 15 minutes long, of what must have been a full Biblical story in the most amazing way – absolutely flat tonally, not any change in voice at all – just a very long mono-tonal chant which was incredibly moving – although it sounds flat it was not – it was amazing to listen to, very beautiful indeed… I have likely attended several hundreds of church services all over in my life, and theirs was amazing in parts – although really long….
This is good to hear, a Pentecostal congregation are a benefit to society.
Last edited 2 years ago by Galeti Tavas
Peter LR
2 years ago
Over 10 years ago the BBC Today programme ran a study on Pentecostalism describing it as “the fastest growing movement amongst the working-class in the world “. So it’s good to see it continues as it seems to produce significant change for good in people.
David McKee
2 years ago
Excellent article, covering a subject most journalists would run a mile from. I remember well my conversion experience – and it really can be as dramatic as John and Bill related.
Me too. I was just 8 years old, 72 years ago and still in love with the Lord Jesus Christ, whom I will see and be with in the not too distant future.
Miriam Uí
2 years ago
Really interesting article! I was aware of how widespread Pentecostals have become, but very touched to read this account of the Spirit’s move among the gypsies. Have they any thing to do with Irish travellers?
If you see “Documentation Centre” on a German town map, it is probably a Holocaust museum. The one in Heidelberg is unique as it records the oppression and mass killing of the Roma people. I was the only visitor when I called. Heidelberg is the German centre for the Roma people.
It’s great to have a good news story in these columns for once and it’s wonderful to read about what the Father is doing through the Son by the power of the Holy Spirit amongst the Roma people. It’s thrilling.
The same thing has been happening amongst some churches in mainline denominations often referred to as charismatic renewal. In the Church of England many churches in the Evangelical tradition have experienced new life in the Holy Spirit and are growing and planting new churches. Very few churches in the Anglo Catholic tradition and none in the Liberal tradition have experienced such renewal because they are not open to it. That is a major reason why they are in decline.
The Holy Spirit renewal has also given rise to new, independent churches many of which are vibrant and growing.
Thank you – but I believe it’s a shame to argue between traditions, all of which have riches to offer.
Dan Gleeballs
2 years ago
It doesn’t seem to do any harm, so I won’t be too critical. However, my strong impression is that God dislikes clapping and abhors a guitar. It is my strong feeling that he prefers the King James Bible and a few dignified hymns. I suspect Jersalem is his favourite, though ‘Abide with Me’ gives it a fair run. I don’t think he minds a bit of incense and prayer – smells and bells – but anyone waving their hands in the air, or throwing themselves face down, should be taken aside and quietly told it is not his sort of thing at all.
I loved what Rev. Nicky Gumbel (of Alpha) said about this verse: ‘Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing… 1 Timothy 2:8 ‘This was the traditional form of prayer. I often jest that ‘if you go into a church and see everyone with their hands in the air say, “This is a traditional church practising ancient forms of worship.” If they all have their hands down by their sides that is fine also. Just say, “This is a modern, trendy church experimenting with new forms of worship!”’
I do think though, that there is a fair difference between holding up hands pressed together in prayer… and holding them overhead and apart – as if waving goodbye to a train or indeed, dignity.
The latter, trance-like posture in evangelical churches demeans us all.
Great comment! Nicky Gumbel is a Very Good Thing (and I happily say that as a traditional catholic), he is a man of faith and principles and a very charismatic preacher.
However I have to say that I think the ‘orans posture’ probably more accurately survives today in the rubrics of the canon of the old Roman rite than in the more enthusiastic motions popular in Evangelical and Pentecostal churches.
(Not that that’s any reason for them to stop, mind you – how other Christians address God in their own church is not my business. Personally I have found the Evangelicals and Pentecostals I know to have a fervour of faith and intensity of prayer life that puts me utterly to shame, whatever our differences in doctrine).
David Bell
2 years ago
Will their fellow Travellers repent for invading and squatting on farmers’ property and stealing from local residents? Or aren’t they Pentecostals?
I’ve got no idea what his ethnic group is, Peter, but I don’t suppose he’s repenting for the ‘sins’ of people with whom his only connection is shared ethnicity. So why should GRT people do so?
I know many Gypsies who despise the “travellers” who leave a mess for others to clear up. Gypsies are proud to call themselves that, and I only made the mistake once of calling my friend a traveller once! Firmly told never to call her a traveller again. The Gypsy who visits around here gets angry when her family are blamed, she has a regular stopping place for each season.
A true Romany Gypsy will never leave a mess behind in farmers fields or otherwise, shame it isn’t true of some of the non travelling community. I get sick and tired of picking up their litter , usually from fast food outlets.
DA Johnson
2 years ago
It’s wonderful to read about a positive trend in the world, for a change.
Lucy Browne
2 years ago
Standing, Elle Hardy. Uncle John was standing.
You’re a journalist… please write something for us to read which doesn’t start with a wince-inducing grammatical error.
Stood reads accurate to me in the sense that he wasn’t standing there on his own happenstance, but he was stood there by a higher calling.
David Batlle
2 years ago
Pentecostalism is a bit much for me, but I won’t deny the good it does in peoples lives, and I have utter respect for it. God bless them.
Patrick Heren
2 years ago
Fascinating. In our part of east Kent, the travellers were mostly Catholics. One large group suddenly found its faith when a young priest came 2 or 3 times a week to be with the head man of the group who was dying of cancer. Their faith seemed strong to me. Another example of the Holy Spirit at work among the marginalised.
Well, that’s going to muller the fortune-telling and palmistry.
I guess they can fall back on selling clothes pegs, sharpening knives and doing driveways with this bit of tarmac we’ve got left over from another job.
Allison Barrows
2 years ago
Latinos in the United States would very likely be surprised to learn they are “ marginalized”.
It is certainty, actually a necessity, of guero politics that everyone who is not them is called marginalised. Once they are out-bred and therefore out-voted by “la raza odiada” they will still use such terms but without any defacto power they will look rather silly. Viva California Alta y Sonora Norte.
geoffrey cox
2 years ago
‘Stood’ – the first word – should be ‘standing’, and it should be ‘worshippers’ in the last paragraph. Passing pedant.
Very interesting article.
Douglas Cumming
1 year ago
In my home town of Gibraltar, there are no local Gypsies, yet we have a flourishing branch of the Spanish ‘Filadelfia’ movement, the equivalent of ‘Life and Light’. The congregation are all gorjas (‘payos’ in Spanish) but are led by a Spanish Gypsy pastor who travels in from Spain for the meetings..
I once built a Guatemalan guy a Pentecostal Church out of a destroyed building post Hurricane Katrina, for the Central American community (although I was paid well, but I did get to know them a fair bit) – (they later moved into a proper church after the rebuilding of the area – this was right after the hurricane)…
I was very moved by them all, there is a goodness in them. The very young Priest did not speak English, he worked as a concrete finisher, and he had an aura of a holiness about him – I met the American head of their Church, a Bishop from Houston come to open the church for its first service, and again his charisma was astounding. The front of the church had a full band set up, drums, keyboard, guitar and base, and the music was pretty much the Central American Polka kind – very upbeat. A couple times I would come in to do some work and a man would be laying in front of the cross, face down on the floor with his arms spread out in motionless payer, and I would leave.
The most memorable, I listened to a number of their hours long services, all in Spanish, was the Pastor doing a sort of liturgical chant without any music, maybe 15 minutes long, of what must have been a full Biblical story in the most amazing way – absolutely flat tonally, not any change in voice at all – just a very long mono-tonal chant which was incredibly moving – although it sounds flat it was not – it was amazing to listen to, very beautiful indeed… I have likely attended several hundreds of church services all over in my life, and theirs was amazing in parts – although really long….
This is good to hear, a Pentecostal congregation are a benefit to society.
Over 10 years ago the BBC Today programme ran a study on Pentecostalism describing it as “the fastest growing movement amongst the working-class in the world “. So it’s good to see it continues as it seems to produce significant change for good in people.
Excellent article, covering a subject most journalists would run a mile from. I remember well my conversion experience – and it really can be as dramatic as John and Bill related.
Me too!
Me too. I was just 8 years old, 72 years ago and still in love with the Lord Jesus Christ, whom I will see and be with in the not too distant future.
Really interesting article! I was aware of how widespread Pentecostals have become, but very touched to read this account of the Spirit’s move among the gypsies. Have they any thing to do with Irish travellers?
The few Irish Gypsies I know are already Christians. I have never enquired about what type, but the Church figures largely in their lives.
Of course they are.. Catholics…
If you see “Documentation Centre” on a German town map, it is probably a Holocaust museum. The one in Heidelberg is unique as it records the oppression and mass killing of the Roma people. I was the only visitor when I called. Heidelberg is the German centre for the Roma people.
https://www.stripes.com/news/heidelberg-germany-museum-explores-nazi-persecution-of-gypsies-during-holocaust-1.164975
It’s great to have a good news story in these columns for once and it’s wonderful to read about what the Father is doing through the Son by the power of the Holy Spirit amongst the Roma people. It’s thrilling.
The same thing has been happening amongst some churches in mainline denominations often referred to as charismatic renewal. In the Church of England many churches in the Evangelical tradition have experienced new life in the Holy Spirit and are growing and planting new churches. Very few churches in the Anglo Catholic tradition and none in the Liberal tradition have experienced such renewal because they are not open to it. That is a major reason why they are in decline.
The Holy Spirit renewal has also given rise to new, independent churches many of which are vibrant and growing.
This is happening in Ireland too!
Thank you – but I believe it’s a shame to argue between traditions, all of which have riches to offer.
It doesn’t seem to do any harm, so I won’t be too critical. However, my strong impression is that God dislikes clapping and abhors a guitar. It is my strong feeling that he prefers the King James Bible and a few dignified hymns. I suspect Jersalem is his favourite, though ‘Abide with Me’ gives it a fair run. I don’t think he minds a bit of incense and prayer – smells and bells – but anyone waving their hands in the air, or throwing themselves face down, should be taken aside and quietly told it is not his sort of thing at all.
I loved what Rev. Nicky Gumbel (of Alpha) said about this verse: ‘Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing… 1 Timothy 2:8
‘This was the traditional form of prayer. I often jest that ‘if you go into a church and see everyone with their hands in the air say, “This is a traditional church practising ancient forms of worship.” If they all have their hands down by their sides that is fine also. Just say, “This is a modern, trendy church experimenting with new forms of worship!”’
He was clearly a delight.
I do think though, that there is a fair difference between holding up hands pressed together in prayer… and holding them overhead and apart – as if waving goodbye to a train or indeed, dignity.
The latter, trance-like posture in evangelical churches demeans us all.
Great comment! Nicky Gumbel is a Very Good Thing (and I happily say that as a traditional catholic), he is a man of faith and principles and a very charismatic preacher.
However I have to say that I think the ‘orans posture’ probably more accurately survives today in the rubrics of the canon of the old Roman rite than in the more enthusiastic motions popular in Evangelical and Pentecostal churches.
(Not that that’s any reason for them to stop, mind you – how other Christians address God in their own church is not my business. Personally I have found the Evangelicals and Pentecostals I know to have a fervour of faith and intensity of prayer life that puts me utterly to shame, whatever our differences in doctrine).
Will their fellow Travellers repent for invading and squatting on farmers’ property and stealing from local residents? Or aren’t they Pentecostals?
Do you repent for all the bad things your ethnic group have done, David?
What ethnic group is that, Lucy?
I’ve got no idea what his ethnic group is, Peter, but I don’t suppose he’s repenting for the ‘sins’ of people with whom his only connection is shared ethnicity. So why should GRT people do so?
I know many Gypsies who despise the “travellers” who leave a mess for others to clear up. Gypsies are proud to call themselves that, and I only made the mistake once of calling my friend a traveller once! Firmly told never to call her a traveller again. The Gypsy who visits around here gets angry when her family are blamed, she has a regular stopping place for each season.
A true Romany Gypsy will never leave a mess behind in farmers fields or otherwise, shame it isn’t true of some of the non travelling community. I get sick and tired of picking up their litter , usually from fast food outlets.
It’s wonderful to read about a positive trend in the world, for a change.
Standing, Elle Hardy. Uncle John was standing.
You’re a journalist… please write something for us to read which doesn’t start with a wince-inducing grammatical error.
Great article, though; interesting and thought provoking. Thank you!
I was confused about that too.
At least it didn’t begin with “so”! Could have read “So, I was stood outside…..”
Or “Hwaet”. . . .
Stood reads accurate to me in the sense that he wasn’t standing there on his own happenstance, but he was stood there by a higher calling.
Pentecostalism is a bit much for me, but I won’t deny the good it does in peoples lives, and I have utter respect for it. God bless them.
Fascinating. In our part of east Kent, the travellers were mostly Catholics. One large group suddenly found its faith when a young priest came 2 or 3 times a week to be with the head man of the group who was dying of cancer. Their faith seemed strong to me. Another example of the Holy Spirit at work among the marginalised.
Romany Catholics?
Well, that’s going to muller the fortune-telling and palmistry.
I guess they can fall back on selling clothes pegs, sharpening knives and doing driveways with this bit of tarmac we’ve got left over from another job.
Latinos in the United States would very likely be surprised to learn they are “ marginalized”.
It is certainty, actually a necessity, of guero politics that everyone who is not them is called marginalised. Once they are out-bred and therefore out-voted by “la raza odiada” they will still use such terms but without any defacto power they will look rather silly. Viva California Alta y Sonora Norte.
‘Stood’ – the first word – should be ‘standing’, and it should be ‘worshippers’ in the last paragraph. Passing pedant.
Very interesting article.
In my home town of Gibraltar, there are no local Gypsies, yet we have a flourishing branch of the Spanish ‘Filadelfia’ movement, the equivalent of ‘Life and Light’. The congregation are all gorjas (‘payos’ in Spanish) but are led by a Spanish Gypsy pastor who travels in from Spain for the meetings..