Growing up in Melbourne in the 1970s I only ever knew one South African. Now I know heaps of South Africans here from many walks of life (and, yes, they are white). By way of conversation I used to ask them why they came to Australia, but now I don’t bother because it became a bit of a downer when they had to admit almost sotto voce that it was the crime. Not sure why they looked so sheepish; I mean, we’re here because of the crime too.
All of this was entirely predictable. One needed only to look at the case of nearby Zimbabwe. But we were constantly told by American and European liberals, “South Africa will be different.” I didn’t believe it and the evidence now is clear to all.
Its all about accountability to the people…….there is none and the various Western groups that regularly attacked Ian Smith are silent on Robert Mugabes atrocities……..
South Africa…no different…I watched a podcast by a Black American guy who said simply that if they can’t do better than this, give the country back to the Boers…….
Matthew Powell
2 years ago
Africa suffered two tragedies in the 19th and 20th century. The first was colonialism, the second was decolonisation. It’s arguable, that the second of these, will ultimately prove to be the greater tragedy.
I watched a youtube on Gold mining internationally as it relates to investing in Mining companies. As such a huge amount of mining takes place in New Guinea, Congo, Tanzania, Kazakhstan, Chile, and every where else, much Mine pricing is based on Political risk first. mineral resources second, for good reason.
What surprised me was the guy talking of SA gold mines, and the issues. He said they were much outdated as maintaining employment levels was too politically important to replace low paid, low skilled, workers with new equipment and higher skilled, which would pay off well in income for the mine. That the mines had had no capital investment flowing in for a very long time as it was all siphoned off (Mines take constant investment to keep profitable, or you just get the easy stuff and the rest becomes unprofitable)
That this will mean a much greater loss of income downstream to the mining sector did not matter as long term money was not the driving force, but immediate money and jobs. The article mentions an 87% fall off in farm production with land re-distribution. Maybe CNN, BBC, MSNBC, Guardian, NY Times, could do some articles on this. If anything is to be done, rather than a collapse, early is much better than later. But I guess, as the inefficient labour in the Gold Mines cannot be updated because of Political insanity – Politically Correct Insanity will stop the Liberal/Left media from covering this self destructive situation.
Some colonialism was tragic – Leopold in the Congo, for instance; much was indifferent and a proportion was beneficial.
Partly it depended on the compatibility of the Imperial with the native culture – sophisticated India meshed easily with sophisticated Britain, whereas many African societies were tribal, nomadic and wholly detached from European activity.
More broadly, the colonies improved with time. The regimes of the 1950s were more enlightened and careful than those of the thirties, which were better than those of the 1910s which had advanced considerably from the original approaches – and rarely if ever were the European empires as ruthlessly oppressive as their Islamic predecessors.
Moreover, it is a matter of record that both Whitehall and the Quai had plans for decolonisation, established between the wars and intended to take effect from the 1980s. And where Britain and France led, the other imperial powers would follow.
Compare this: a patchy tableau of general progress, blotted here and there with sometimes terrible crimes: with decolonisation: a sorry tale of general collapse, of missed opportunities and repeated regression, and your doubt is answered. Decolonisation was worse, mainly because premature.
Zimbabwe and RSA did wait till the 1980s, which has meant they have done better just how exactly?
There is the Darwinian proposition that impoverished and fertile populations will prevail demographically over ones that are rich and altruistic with low fertility though, so it does make sense that way.
Leaving a job half-done always creates a situation far worse than if the job had never been started in the first place. Certainly, in the northern half of sub-Saharan Africa at least there were relatively strong and stable empires/nations/counties which had nascent relations with the European powers and, left alone, might have developed into strong and happy communities. And yes, the Europeans destroyed all that. Then they made it worse by clearing out before they’d created anything worthwhile which was capable of replacing those empires.
I agree this would have been interesting, but it’s hard to see how the engagement with technological or institutional modernity would have taken place without some population interpenetration.
It’s interesting that colonialism has had a positive impact on the Anglosphere.
Dan Gleeballs
2 years ago
I met a lovely South African woman in London, applying at the time to live permanently here. “Is the crime very bad?” I asked her. “Well, I was told never to stop if another car hit mine, because there was a good chance I’d be raped or killed.”
Good God, I said. Couldn’t you keep a gun in the car?
No, she replied, because any staff in your house report such things to local gangs and you are then targeted for the weapon, raped etc.
Since then, I’ve travelled to Durban where beautiful white beaches were deserted. “Why is no one out there?” I asked my driver. “Oh, you can be seen from a long way off, so criminals would target you.”
In Johannesburg and Capetown, I saw the endless private security and armed response signs, with every single house in a nice street behind spikes and barbed wire.
SA is an incredibly beautiful place. But I couldn’t live there – and I certainly couldn’t have daughters or a wife with me. It’s a damned shame, it really is.
hayden eastwood
2 years ago
My impression living in South Africa for 4 years was that it was a powder keg on every level: socially, economically, racially.
60%of the population is unemployed and unemployable: in part this is a legacy of the Apartheid government’s education policy, but also the ANC’s failure to build educational infrastructure and provide good teachers, instead, relying on quota systems to push unqualified candidates (or ANC cronies) into industrial positions.
It’s difficult to see how this will play out well with this 60% unemployable demographic growing year by year, neither benefiting from, nor contributing to, the economy.
Instead, ever higher premiums will be paid to the few skilled people who remain, further fuelling racial and social rage, and likely driving further political opportunism in targeting the few productive people in the economy.
I was pleased to get out when I did.
Christopher Chantrill
2 years ago
Government is loot and plunder. That is all.
The only question is how much of the economy it loots and plunders. In the US, it loots about 35 percent of GDP. In the UK, closer to 40 percent of GDP.
But when it gets closer to 100 percent, then you got trouble, right here in River City.
It’s a line from a song sung by Robert Preston in the musical The Music Man.
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
2 years ago
The UK in 30 years time sadly
Robin Bury
2 years ago
My wife’s parents lived in apartheid South Africa. Her Dad was a doctor. Life was peaceful and law and order prevailed. Of course apartheid was indefensible but the alternative seems to be a disaster. Thanks for explaining why.
Not sure the case for apartheid ever got much of a hearing in the Western press at the time. The fact that the alternative would be and has been worse has got to be some sort of argument in its favour though, hasn’t it?
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago
The ANC government spends more time faction fighting than actually governing. To many they are still the liberation heroes. Unfortunately these heroes had feet of clay, have no integrity and started to loot from top down like they were in a candy shop. The tenderpreneur was a valid job description.
Then along came Zuma (a psychopath – just do Hare’s 20 questions on him) who hollowed out the government and SOEs and stuffed them with his deployees and the feeding frenzy went rampant. Despite what has happened I am delighted that he is behind bars.
The rioting has been co-ordinated by factional crooks, but it has been exacerbated by Covid lockdown and resultant desperation. Exactly what I have been loudly saying since March 2020. We are just seeing the tip of the iceberg worldwide – you always see effects of ridiculous policies playing out first in economies with no fat.
The early part of this piece about corruption, state capture and henchmen being appointed to state bodies reminded me of Scotland under the nationalists, similarly the reelection of the same party despite its abject failures.
So looking forward, South Africa becomes the new Zimbabwe, and Scotland the new South Africa.
Paul Ansell
2 years ago
What did the ANC think would happen when it told its supporters to boycott schooling …. great pictures for the Western media but what did it mean for the kids who then grew up to be unemployable ? we are seeing the results now. It was true that the standards were not the same between white and black, but some education must have been better than none….
Also, talking to various South African friends, it is fairly clear that what the author of this piece has said is true. Successive Govts have treated the state assets as their own private pension funds…..with little or no accountability to the people.
Funny how our media and various Union groups were all for attacking the old Apartheid Govt for its behaviour to the majority Bantu population, but is mysteriously silent on the excesses and rampant corruption in the ANC……….and the betrayal of all South Africans….
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
So what about USA and UK? What does this mean? Nothing? or Something?
We will not hold our breaths waiting for an article addressing those.
Jorge Espinha
2 years ago
Apartheid is indefensible. Thanks to it the social-economic conditions of the black majority were worsened. Just to make it clear where I stand. What did you all expect? Elect the same party during 27 years always with about 2 thirds majorities no matter how bad and incompetent they are, that’s the expected outcome. What’s the incentive to work better? Even in Sweden, the results would be bad.
World’s first heart transplant.1968 in apartheid SA.
I could be wrong but the Zulu population increased signifanctly from 1900 onwards.
Due in no small part to efficient farming methods of settlers.
And apparently 27 years of no Apartheid has worked well? Sure, let’s blame the victims instead of the criminals. See Zimbabwe. Once you lose the rule of law your country/civilization is finished. There is no economic incentive to invest, employ people or produce if it will be stolen from you (or taxed away). The Zulu will get to enjoy the living conditions of 1825 very soon.
There are perfectly coherent defences of aristocracy as a form of government.
The principal benefit is one of competence. The best and most competent people rule, they are cultivated to it from birth, and they can take a more far-sighted view of the country’s interests because the stake of their family in the future is secured, independent of the personal advantage they take from any current office they may happen to hold.
It’s the ideological exclusion of such settlements consequent on a factually unfounded and purely faith-based denial of the inequality in human capacities that has made practical life so difficult in more countries than just South Africa.
Growing up in Melbourne in the 1970s I only ever knew one South African. Now I know heaps of South Africans here from many walks of life (and, yes, they are white). By way of conversation I used to ask them why they came to Australia, but now I don’t bother because it became a bit of a downer when they had to admit almost sotto voce that it was the crime. Not sure why they looked so sheepish; I mean, we’re here because of the crime too.
Nice touch Tony from here in WA.
All of this was entirely predictable. One needed only to look at the case of nearby Zimbabwe. But we were constantly told by American and European liberals, “South Africa will be different.” I didn’t believe it and the evidence now is clear to all.
This was going to be my comment almost to the word. We now have examples of this in the US cities too…….Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore.
Its all about accountability to the people…….there is none and the various Western groups that regularly attacked Ian Smith are silent on Robert Mugabes atrocities……..
South Africa…no different…I watched a podcast by a Black American guy who said simply that if they can’t do better than this, give the country back to the Boers…….
Africa suffered two tragedies in the 19th and 20th century. The first was colonialism, the second was decolonisation. It’s arguable, that the second of these, will ultimately prove to be the greater tragedy.
I watched a youtube on Gold mining internationally as it relates to investing in Mining companies. As such a huge amount of mining takes place in New Guinea, Congo, Tanzania, Kazakhstan, Chile, and every where else, much Mine pricing is based on Political risk first. mineral resources second, for good reason.
What surprised me was the guy talking of SA gold mines, and the issues. He said they were much outdated as maintaining employment levels was too politically important to replace low paid, low skilled, workers with new equipment and higher skilled, which would pay off well in income for the mine. That the mines had had no capital investment flowing in for a very long time as it was all siphoned off (Mines take constant investment to keep profitable, or you just get the easy stuff and the rest becomes unprofitable)
That this will mean a much greater loss of income downstream to the mining sector did not matter as long term money was not the driving force, but immediate money and jobs. The article mentions an 87% fall off in farm production with land re-distribution. Maybe CNN, BBC, MSNBC, Guardian, NY Times, could do some articles on this. If anything is to be done, rather than a collapse, early is much better than later. But I guess, as the inefficient labour in the Gold Mines cannot be updated because of Political insanity – Politically Correct Insanity will stop the Liberal/Left media from covering this self destructive situation.
there is no chance of the stupid, biased and moribund Bbc covering this disintegration. They totally lost interest once Whitey got booted out.
Some colonialism was tragic – Leopold in the Congo, for instance; much was indifferent and a proportion was beneficial.
Partly it depended on the compatibility of the Imperial with the native culture – sophisticated India meshed easily with sophisticated Britain, whereas many African societies were tribal, nomadic and wholly detached from European activity.
More broadly, the colonies improved with time. The regimes of the 1950s were more enlightened and careful than those of the thirties, which were better than those of the 1910s which had advanced considerably from the original approaches – and rarely if ever were the European empires as ruthlessly oppressive as their Islamic predecessors.
Moreover, it is a matter of record that both Whitehall and the Quai had plans for decolonisation, established between the wars and intended to take effect from the 1980s. And where Britain and France led, the other imperial powers would follow.
Compare this: a patchy tableau of general progress, blotted here and there with sometimes terrible crimes: with decolonisation: a sorry tale of general collapse, of missed opportunities and repeated regression, and your doubt is answered. Decolonisation was worse, mainly because premature.
Zimbabwe and RSA did wait till the 1980s, which has meant they have done better just how exactly?
There is the Darwinian proposition that impoverished and fertile populations will prevail demographically over ones that are rich and altruistic with low fertility though, so it does make sense that way.
Leaving a job half-done always creates a situation far worse than if the job had never been started in the first place. Certainly, in the northern half of sub-Saharan Africa at least there were relatively strong and stable empires/nations/counties which had nascent relations with the European powers and, left alone, might have developed into strong and happy communities. And yes, the Europeans destroyed all that. Then they made it worse by clearing out before they’d created anything worthwhile which was capable of replacing those empires.
I agree this would have been interesting, but it’s hard to see how the engagement with technological or institutional modernity would have taken place without some population interpenetration.
It’s interesting that colonialism has had a positive impact on the Anglosphere.
I met a lovely South African woman in London, applying at the time to live permanently here. “Is the crime very bad?” I asked her. “Well, I was told never to stop if another car hit mine, because there was a good chance I’d be raped or killed.”
Good God, I said. Couldn’t you keep a gun in the car?
No, she replied, because any staff in your house report such things to local gangs and you are then targeted for the weapon, raped etc.
Since then, I’ve travelled to Durban where beautiful white beaches were deserted. “Why is no one out there?” I asked my driver. “Oh, you can be seen from a long way off, so criminals would target you.”
In Johannesburg and Capetown, I saw the endless private security and armed response signs, with every single house in a nice street behind spikes and barbed wire.
SA is an incredibly beautiful place. But I couldn’t live there – and I certainly couldn’t have daughters or a wife with me. It’s a damned shame, it really is.
My impression living in South Africa for 4 years was that it was a powder keg on every level: socially, economically, racially.
60%of the population is unemployed and unemployable: in part this is a legacy of the Apartheid government’s education policy, but also the ANC’s failure to build educational infrastructure and provide good teachers, instead, relying on quota systems to push unqualified candidates (or ANC cronies) into industrial positions.
It’s difficult to see how this will play out well with this 60% unemployable demographic growing year by year, neither benefiting from, nor contributing to, the economy.
Instead, ever higher premiums will be paid to the few skilled people who remain, further fuelling racial and social rage, and likely driving further political opportunism in targeting the few productive people in the economy.
I was pleased to get out when I did.
Government is loot and plunder. That is all.
The only question is how much of the economy it loots and plunders. In the US, it loots about 35 percent of GDP. In the UK, closer to 40 percent of GDP.
But when it gets closer to 100 percent, then you got trouble, right here in River City.
Trouble with a capital T – which rhymes with P and stands for Pool.
What?
It’s a line from a song sung by Robert Preston in the musical The Music Man.
The UK in 30 years time sadly
My wife’s parents lived in apartheid South Africa. Her Dad was a doctor. Life was peaceful and law and order prevailed. Of course apartheid was indefensible but the alternative seems to be a disaster. Thanks for explaining why.
Not sure the case for apartheid ever got much of a hearing in the Western press at the time. The fact that the alternative would be and has been worse has got to be some sort of argument in its favour though, hasn’t it?
The ANC government spends more time faction fighting than actually governing. To many they are still the liberation heroes. Unfortunately these heroes had feet of clay, have no integrity and started to loot from top down like they were in a candy shop. The tenderpreneur was a valid job description.
Then along came Zuma (a psychopath – just do Hare’s 20 questions on him) who hollowed out the government and SOEs and stuffed them with his deployees and the feeding frenzy went rampant. Despite what has happened I am delighted that he is behind bars.
The rioting has been co-ordinated by factional crooks, but it has been exacerbated by Covid lockdown and resultant desperation. Exactly what I have been loudly saying since March 2020. We are just seeing the tip of the iceberg worldwide – you always see effects of ridiculous policies playing out first in economies with no fat.
SOE = state owned enterprise (I think – )
Yes….
The early part of this piece about corruption, state capture and henchmen being appointed to state bodies reminded me of Scotland under the nationalists, similarly the reelection of the same party despite its abject failures.
So looking forward, South Africa becomes the new Zimbabwe, and Scotland the new South Africa.
What did the ANC think would happen when it told its supporters to boycott schooling …. great pictures for the Western media but what did it mean for the kids who then grew up to be unemployable ? we are seeing the results now. It was true that the standards were not the same between white and black, but some education must have been better than none….
Also, talking to various South African friends, it is fairly clear that what the author of this piece has said is true. Successive Govts have treated the state assets as their own private pension funds…..with little or no accountability to the people.
Funny how our media and various Union groups were all for attacking the old Apartheid Govt for its behaviour to the majority Bantu population, but is mysteriously silent on the excesses and rampant corruption in the ANC……….and the betrayal of all South Africans….
So what about USA and UK? What does this mean? Nothing? or Something?
We will not hold our breaths waiting for an article addressing those.
Apartheid is indefensible. Thanks to it the social-economic conditions of the black majority were worsened. Just to make it clear where I stand. What did you all expect? Elect the same party during 27 years always with about 2 thirds majorities no matter how bad and incompetent they are, that’s the expected outcome. What’s the incentive to work better? Even in Sweden, the results would be bad.
Is that actually true?
What was crime like under apartheid? How have the social-economic conditions of the black majority improved since it ended?
World’s first heart transplant.1968 in apartheid SA.
I could be wrong but the Zulu population increased signifanctly from 1900 onwards.
Due in no small part to efficient farming methods of settlers.
And apparently 27 years of no Apartheid has worked well? Sure, let’s blame the victims instead of the criminals. See Zimbabwe. Once you lose the rule of law your country/civilization is finished. There is no economic incentive to invest, employ people or produce if it will be stolen from you (or taxed away). The Zulu will get to enjoy the living conditions of 1825 very soon.
There are perfectly coherent defences of aristocracy as a form of government.
The principal benefit is one of competence. The best and most competent people rule, they are cultivated to it from birth, and they can take a more far-sighted view of the country’s interests because the stake of their family in the future is secured, independent of the personal advantage they take from any current office they may happen to hold.
It’s the ideological exclusion of such settlements consequent on a factually unfounded and purely faith-based denial of the inequality in human capacities that has made practical life so difficult in more countries than just South Africa.