Generally the loss of faith in Christianity has been put down to two chief sources (Dominion, Tom Holland): the theory of evolution and doubting the bible’s authenticity. The first allows God to be dispensed with and the second gets rid of the significance of Jesus. Where Christianity thrives these two are either ignored or kept in a balanced context.
I’ve always thought that it was a mistake to give Christian faith a secular role, ie make it political. Unlike the Ko ran it does not describe laws to keep, but love to practise. It’s much like the ‘laws’ that keep a marriage together: they are based on mutually beneficial behaviour and not just following prescribed rules.
But it is fascinating that when secularism drives Christianity from the public square it replaces it with its own religion and blasphemies. This religion has no forgiveness and in its most advanced forms (varieties of communism) treats humans as commodities to control.
Social structures resembling religion arise in every society. IF traditional religion is displaced it’s by something similar. Environmentalism is the most obvious and direct remapping of Judaeo Christian religion into something not called a religion but that behaves exactly like one. In the east they had Marxism. Plus ca change.
About to say the same. But couldn’t do it as well.
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
OMG, as the saying goes, what a snarled mess this entire thing is. If you made sense of it you have a keener mind than I do, and bloodhound like have fallowed the writer’s thought through dozens of thickets and swamps and jungles of obscure and mixed quotes and references to a great many esoteric writers.
Ever see one of those puzzles – ‘Plot the path through the maze the mouse must use to get to the cheese at the far end’. OK, now do it with Hobbes and Augustine of Hippo and Rousseau sprinkled about like a trail of breadcrumbs….. good luck.
So why not just get to the heart of it, Mark 12:16
“Paying Tax to Caesar
…15 But Jesus saw through their hypocrisy and said, “Why are you testing Me? Bring Me a denarius to inspect.” 16 So they brought it and he asked them, “Whose image is this? and Who’s inscription? “Caesars” they answered. 17 Then Jesus told them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” And they marveled at Him.…”
And so Civil law, the weight and measures, the Mint, the soldiers, the roads, the courts, the laws to keep society working, Taxes, Jesus said to honour them because there was Gods Law, and Caesar’s law, and both are needed. Now isn’t that a simpler way to put it all?
But then Islam….Not like that, the Koran is a law book. Secular law is not separated from Gods. From when to brush your teeth, which hand to use in greeting, what interest law is, contract law, and everything is codified in Sharia Law. And so yes, Christianity did form the secularization principals which no other major religion has, one of its many remarkable qualities.
Now as far as how Christianity kills its self, “Twain said: The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.” the writer is getting ahead of himself a bit – the secular, Liberal, Humanist world is KILLING ITS SELF. The covid response spending Lefty/Liberals foisted on the West may bring about the end of Fiat money as the Liberals bankrupt the world to give Granny another year in her care home.
And then AI may use all human knowledge and become devoutly Anglican, who knows – But the amazingly intellectual Christian Church has brought about almost all which is great and good in the world, often incidentally by creating education as it were, Philosophy, Literature, tens of thousands of Monks hand copying classic books for centuries to educate the world leaders wile armies of university level educated Priests taught thinking and reading/writing to the Barbarian rulers, established the schools, Universities, and the very ‘Scientific Method’ it’s self.
Christianity, 2020 Years, Modern Secular Humanism Liberalism, maybe 40 years, and it is eating its own and tearing at its self, and destroying the very economics which support it.
AGREED. A further point could be made here and that is that unless hmo sapiens has some kind of ‘spiritual/higher’ value system – then h sapiens will only have its own primitive drives to guide it – and we all know where that leads – and you really cant get much more enlightened than ‘do unto others etc’. However living in such a primitive world mans that the ‘do unto others’ needs to be tempered with some added survival wisdom eg ‘but carry a big stick because it is OK to survive the attempt at “do unto others’……………
But isn’t the question: why the decline now? Christianity thrived in the western world for nearly two millennia alongside Jesus’ otherworldly remarks.
I think it must be because the reality of the otherworldly has been lost, paradoxically not by people at large, but by the church itself, which has an increasingly this-worldly feel. It seems unable to hear its founder saying, my kingdom is not of this world.
Every time I read an article about CofE activity, it seems increasingly “managed” like most of the large corporations I have worked for – with a large dose of “woke” thrown in.
I’m secular, but am increasingly saddened to see the genuine benefits of local churches – to their local communities – being undermined by all this hogwash
It may well “die the death” of many inverted-pyramid organisations.
Last edited 2 years ago by Ian Barton
Alastair Herd
2 years ago
As an evangelical Christian (adult convert), I think the biggest reason for the decline in faith is simply people find themselves unable to believe it’s true.
I look at Douglas Murray, a man who strongly defends the Church’s right to exist, yet wouldn’t be a member of it because he can’t bring himself to believe it.
Ironically, despite their being more historical evidence for Christianity than any point since the Ancient Church, we have now culturally totally bought into the “fake news” of 19th Century Theological Liberalism.
If you appreciate Christianity as an institution, I think it’s worth giving it a genuine investigation.
I think it’s more that people don’t want to do what they don’t want to do.
Peter Francis
2 years ago
I enjoyed reading your article (as usual), but I have to pick you up on one point. You say “Only 12% of British people now identify as Anglican — the state religion of the country.” There is no British “state religion”. The Church of England is the Established Church in England, with the reigning monarch its head. But the Church of Scotland is a separate entity and the monarch is not its head. (There is an Anglican communion in Scotland, but its status is just another faith group.)
Each individual parish church in the Church of Scotland has a “Kirk Session”. Under Scots Law, it was a legal court that could punish and fine individuals. The punishments have stopped now, but in its heyday, the Kirk ran Scotland like an Iranian theocracy. John Knox would have laughed at a phrase like “the law of God has no jurisdiction in the world of man”.
‘The Church of England is the Established Church in England and Wales’. You’re 101 years out of date, the Church in Wales has been disestablished since 1920.
The Dusenbury book is absolutely superb, full of interesting ideas and beautifully written.
Arnold Grutt
2 years ago
‘Anglicanism’ is not the ‘state religion of the UK’. It is the religion of the monarch in England. In Scotland she belongs to but is not head of a different Church. In Wales it’s ‘The Church (of England) IN Wales’
Last edited 2 years ago by Arnold Grutt
Douglas Cumming
1 year ago
Being a newcomer to UnHerd, I have only just come across this excellent 2-year-old article.
After all the analysis is done, just one question really remains.
What now?
How does an increasingly marginalised Church (not just CoE!) respond to the uncoupling brought about by the very ‘yeast of the Kingdom’ being spread in the dough of the world? (Mat 13:33).
Are we returning to a pre-Constantinan state of affairs, where the Church spoke from the margins and suffered for it? Or has over 2000 years of history now made that impossible?
Generally the loss of faith in Christianity has been put down to two chief sources (Dominion, Tom Holland): the theory of evolution and doubting the bible’s authenticity. The first allows God to be dispensed with and the second gets rid of the significance of Jesus. Where Christianity thrives these two are either ignored or kept in a balanced context.
I’ve always thought that it was a mistake to give Christian faith a secular role, ie make it political. Unlike the Ko ran it does not describe laws to keep, but love to practise. It’s much like the ‘laws’ that keep a marriage together: they are based on mutually beneficial behaviour and not just following prescribed rules.
But it is fascinating that when secularism drives Christianity from the public square it replaces it with its own religion and blasphemies. This religion has no forgiveness and in its most advanced forms (varieties of communism) treats humans as commodities to control.
Very insightful comment.
Social structures resembling religion arise in every society. IF traditional religion is displaced it’s by something similar. Environmentalism is the most obvious and direct remapping of Judaeo Christian religion into something not called a religion but that behaves exactly like one. In the east they had Marxism. Plus ca change.
About to say the same. But couldn’t do it as well.
OMG, as the saying goes, what a snarled mess this entire thing is. If you made sense of it you have a keener mind than I do, and bloodhound like have fallowed the writer’s thought through dozens of thickets and swamps and jungles of obscure and mixed quotes and references to a great many esoteric writers.
Ever see one of those puzzles – ‘Plot the path through the maze the mouse must use to get to the cheese at the far end’. OK, now do it with Hobbes and Augustine of Hippo and Rousseau sprinkled about like a trail of breadcrumbs….. good luck.
So why not just get to the heart of it, Mark 12:16
“Paying Tax to Caesar
…15 But Jesus saw through their hypocrisy and said, “Why are you testing Me? Bring Me a denarius to inspect.” 16 So they brought it and he asked them, “Whose image is this? and Who’s inscription? “Caesars” they answered. 17 Then Jesus told them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” And they marveled at Him.…”
And so Civil law, the weight and measures, the Mint, the soldiers, the roads, the courts, the laws to keep society working, Taxes, Jesus said to honour them because there was Gods Law, and Caesar’s law, and both are needed. Now isn’t that a simpler way to put it all?
But then Islam….Not like that, the Koran is a law book. Secular law is not separated from Gods. From when to brush your teeth, which hand to use in greeting, what interest law is, contract law, and everything is codified in Sharia Law. And so yes, Christianity did form the secularization principals which no other major religion has, one of its many remarkable qualities.
Now as far as how Christianity kills its self, “Twain said:
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.”
the writer is getting ahead of himself a bit – the secular, Liberal, Humanist world is KILLING ITS SELF. The covid response spending Lefty/Liberals foisted on the West may bring about the end of Fiat money as the Liberals bankrupt the world to give Granny another year in her care home.
And then AI may use all human knowledge and become devoutly Anglican, who knows – But the amazingly intellectual Christian Church has brought about almost all which is great and good in the world, often incidentally by creating education as it were, Philosophy, Literature, tens of thousands of Monks hand copying classic books for centuries to educate the world leaders wile armies of university level educated Priests taught thinking and reading/writing to the Barbarian rulers, established the schools, Universities, and the very ‘Scientific Method’ it’s self.
Christianity, 2020 Years, Modern Secular Humanism Liberalism, maybe 40 years, and it is eating its own and tearing at its self, and destroying the very economics which support it.
This obituary is being penned a bit early….
Sanford, I swear you’re worth the subscription all on your own.
Very interesting, thought-provoking article, T.O. Thank you.
AGREED. A further point could be made here and that is that unless hmo sapiens has some kind of ‘spiritual/higher’ value system – then h sapiens will only have its own primitive drives to guide it – and we all know where that leads – and you really cant get much more enlightened than ‘do unto others etc’. However living in such a primitive world mans that the ‘do unto others’ needs to be tempered with some added survival wisdom eg ‘but carry a big stick because it is OK to survive the attempt at “do unto others’……………
Excellent! Thank you!
But isn’t the question: why the decline now? Christianity thrived in the western world for nearly two millennia alongside Jesus’ otherworldly remarks.
I think it must be because the reality of the otherworldly has been lost, paradoxically not by people at large, but by the church itself, which has an increasingly this-worldly feel. It seems unable to hear its founder saying, my kingdom is not of this world.
Every time I read an article about CofE activity, it seems increasingly “managed” like most of the large corporations I have worked for – with a large dose of “woke” thrown in.
I’m secular, but am increasingly saddened to see the genuine benefits of local churches – to their local communities – being undermined by all this hogwash
It may well “die the death” of many inverted-pyramid organisations.
As an evangelical Christian (adult convert), I think the biggest reason for the decline in faith is simply people find themselves unable to believe it’s true.
I look at Douglas Murray, a man who strongly defends the Church’s right to exist, yet wouldn’t be a member of it because he can’t bring himself to believe it.
Ironically, despite their being more historical evidence for Christianity than any point since the Ancient Church, we have now culturally totally bought into the “fake news” of 19th Century Theological Liberalism.
If you appreciate Christianity as an institution, I think it’s worth giving it a genuine investigation.
I think it’s more that people don’t want to do what they don’t want to do.
I enjoyed reading your article (as usual), but I have to pick you up on one point. You say “Only 12% of British people now identify as Anglican — the state religion of the country.” There is no British “state religion”. The Church of England is the Established Church in England, with the reigning monarch its head. But the Church of Scotland is a separate entity and the monarch is not its head. (There is an Anglican communion in Scotland, but its status is just another faith group.)
Each individual parish church in the Church of Scotland has a “Kirk Session”. Under Scots Law, it was a legal court that could punish and fine individuals. The punishments have stopped now, but in its heyday, the Kirk ran Scotland like an Iranian theocracy. John Knox would have laughed at a phrase like “the law of God has no jurisdiction in the world of man”.
‘The Church of England is the Established Church in England and Wales’. You’re 101 years out of date, the Church in Wales has been disestablished since 1920.
Thanks, Andrew. I have amended my comment.
The Dusenbury book is absolutely superb, full of interesting ideas and beautifully written.
‘Anglicanism’ is not the ‘state religion of the UK’. It is the religion of the monarch in England. In Scotland she belongs to but is not head of a different Church. In Wales it’s ‘The Church (of England) IN Wales’
Being a newcomer to UnHerd, I have only just come across this excellent 2-year-old article.
After all the analysis is done, just one question really remains.
What now?
How does an increasingly marginalised Church (not just CoE!) respond to the uncoupling brought about by the very ‘yeast of the Kingdom’ being spread in the dough of the world? (Mat 13:33).
Are we returning to a pre-Constantinan state of affairs, where the Church spoke from the margins and suffered for it? Or has over 2000 years of history now made that impossible?