Try reading Tim Park’s “A Season With Verona” for a rather different take on Italian fan culture.
Might it not also be the case that the bacchanalian scenes on Sunday might be a consequence of the imminent lifting of lockdown restrictions? Especially given the stunning hypocrisy displayed at the G7, Wimbledon and in the posh seats at Wembley.
This article (it is well written, if a bit one-sided) could just as easily be called “Watching the people get lairy”.
Tim Parks book is great.
My step son is currently dating a young woman who supports Inter Milan, she is in fashion and talks fondly of their “firm”
I know Russian, German fans all have these firms and conduct punch – ups, like a tourney or joust, with rules of engagement. The English fans are much esteemed. One of the most notorious that I know of is an ex St Paul’s schoolboy, trained in martial arts, whose day job was that of a Chelsea Estate agent. Many of the comments about football fans are built on stereo typical readings of the working class. I seem to remember at the last World Cup, an England fan having a drink was stabbed by Italian fans. England isn’t exceptional in its violence, nor are all fans working class yobboes.
Thank you. The book by Tim Parks – and indeed other accounts – makes it quite plain that, at their worst, the Italian fans can easily “outyob” the English any day. That said, there is no excuse for booing their splendid national anthem.
Paul Sorrenti
2 years ago
Hunter S. Lloyd
George Wells
2 years ago
Who noticed the Peroni in the photo?
Mike Fraser
2 years ago
What on earth persuades the author that this is solely about English soccer fans? Certainly not evidence! Fans have actually died in Brazil and in Italy.
Soccer has always been an excuse for those strata of society which are a mixture of the unwanted, left-behind, unheard (?), anarchical, and downright criminal, to say they are fans (yes and some actual fans), so that they can create havoc as such, and indeed in some countries are far more brutal than those seen last night.
If you ignore the fans and look with narrowed eyes and ears just at the game, it may just be possible to call it the beautiful game, but open the other senses for a second or two and the beauty is marred by the beast calling itself “fans”.
Malcolm Webb
2 years ago
Enjoyable read but bordering on English over indulgence . Just imagine if you were a Scottish football fan. 55 years would seem a short interval between wins, let alone finals or semi finals.
Well, Wales did okay this year, in the last Euros they did better than England and in 1958 the reached the quarter finals of the world cup.
At least, unlike the Scots, we’re good at rugby.
Not that I would wish to be contentious.
Al M
2 years ago
I see that the focus has now fallen on the unrepentant Charlie Perry and his cider fuelled flare up the bottom antics. Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I recall such a trick being performed by avant-garde comedians of the 1980s such as Malcolm Hardee and Chris Lynam. Then it was cutting-edge performance art, but to the same audience today, I suspect, this vindicates their view that our country is populated by uncouth louts.
I would therefore like to propose that we erect a statue of this merry fellow on the 4th plinth; his reinterpretation of a 1980s stand-up classic continues a national obsession with toilet humour, stretching from Roland the Farter to Viz. I’m sure Damien Hirst would be keen to get involved.
Such a statue would bring people together in many ways; from Sun readers cheering him on, to readers of the Guardian, united in their frustration that their white-collar job doesn’t afford them a £545 Louis Vuitton bucket hat.
Last edited 2 years ago by Al M
mrpaulnewton007
2 years ago
Cracking piece of writing. It’s almost like I was there!
Mark Goodwin
2 years ago
Great read
MJ Reid
2 years ago
As a woman, I find that any mass of football fans who have been drinking is a horde. Mainly men who think they can sing behaving like they own their surroundings and everyone else needs to be repelled.
Even being in the house when they come out of the pub… It is a horrible, fear inducing noise. Women coming home from work when the pubs let out during this bout of football were having to take taxis home and get the taxi drivers to make sure they got in their front doors without incident.
If people cannot behave themselves, the teams should be penalised. Nothing else seems to work.
Football is the only sport that attracts this loutish behaviour. Time to ban football?
Thing is, the great majority of the time, the loud drunken singers are completely harmless. Barring the odd bush or shop front used as a urinal, some colourful language and a possible passing out in a park it is mostly just a noisy crowd. Remember most of these men have families and football is where they let off steam with the lads. Most of them are salt of the earth working class men and they have a code of sorts. I actually don’t worry that much when I am around them, they usually just want a smile and a sense of solidarity that you too love the beautiful game like they do. I grew up around these types of men and MOST of them have hearts of gold. Unfortunately booze can bring out the less well mannered aspects of someone and some are just outright thugs but honestly I’ve come across them extremely infrequently. I certainly wouldn’t ban football and I would not judge so sweepingly.
Try reading Tim Park’s “A Season With Verona” for a rather different take on Italian fan culture.
Might it not also be the case that the bacchanalian scenes on Sunday might be a consequence of the imminent lifting of lockdown restrictions? Especially given the stunning hypocrisy displayed at the G7, Wimbledon and in the posh seats at Wembley.
This article (it is well written, if a bit one-sided) could just as easily be called “Watching the people get lairy”.
Tim Parks book is great.
My step son is currently dating a young woman who supports Inter Milan, she is in fashion and talks fondly of their “firm”
I know Russian, German fans all have these firms and conduct punch – ups, like a tourney or joust, with rules of engagement. The English fans are much esteemed. One of the most notorious that I know of is an ex St Paul’s schoolboy, trained in martial arts, whose day job was that of a Chelsea Estate agent. Many of the comments about football fans are built on stereo typical readings of the working class. I seem to remember at the last World Cup, an England fan having a drink was stabbed by Italian fans. England isn’t exceptional in its violence, nor are all fans working class yobboes.
Thank you. The book by Tim Parks – and indeed other accounts – makes it quite plain that, at their worst, the Italian fans can easily “outyob” the English any day. That said, there is no excuse for booing their splendid national anthem.
Hunter S. Lloyd
Who noticed the Peroni in the photo?
What on earth persuades the author that this is solely about English soccer fans? Certainly not evidence! Fans have actually died in Brazil and in Italy.
Soccer has always been an excuse for those strata of society which are a mixture of the unwanted, left-behind, unheard (?), anarchical, and downright criminal, to say they are fans (yes and some actual fans), so that they can create havoc as such, and indeed in some countries are far more brutal than those seen last night.
If you ignore the fans and look with narrowed eyes and ears just at the game, it may just be possible to call it the beautiful game, but open the other senses for a second or two and the beauty is marred by the beast calling itself “fans”.
Enjoyable read but bordering on English over indulgence . Just imagine if you were a Scottish football fan. 55 years would seem a short interval between wins, let alone finals or semi finals.
Well, Wales did okay this year, in the last Euros they did better than England and in 1958 the reached the quarter finals of the world cup.
At least, unlike the Scots, we’re good at rugby.
Not that I would wish to be contentious.
I see that the focus has now fallen on the unrepentant Charlie Perry and his cider fuelled flare up the bottom antics. Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I recall such a trick being performed by avant-garde comedians of the 1980s such as Malcolm Hardee and Chris Lynam. Then it was cutting-edge performance art, but to the same audience today, I suspect, this vindicates their view that our country is populated by uncouth louts.
I would therefore like to propose that we erect a statue of this merry fellow on the 4th plinth; his reinterpretation of a 1980s stand-up classic continues a national obsession with toilet humour, stretching from Roland the Farter to Viz. I’m sure Damien Hirst would be keen to get involved.
Such a statue would bring people together in many ways; from Sun readers cheering him on, to readers of the Guardian, united in their frustration that their white-collar job doesn’t afford them a £545 Louis Vuitton bucket hat.
Cracking piece of writing. It’s almost like I was there!
Great read
As a woman, I find that any mass of football fans who have been drinking is a horde. Mainly men who think they can sing behaving like they own their surroundings and everyone else needs to be repelled.
Even being in the house when they come out of the pub… It is a horrible, fear inducing noise. Women coming home from work when the pubs let out during this bout of football were having to take taxis home and get the taxi drivers to make sure they got in their front doors without incident.
If people cannot behave themselves, the teams should be penalised. Nothing else seems to work.
Football is the only sport that attracts this loutish behaviour. Time to ban football?
Thing is, the great majority of the time, the loud drunken singers are completely harmless. Barring the odd bush or shop front used as a urinal, some colourful language and a possible passing out in a park it is mostly just a noisy crowd. Remember most of these men have families and football is where they let off steam with the lads. Most of them are salt of the earth working class men and they have a code of sorts. I actually don’t worry that much when I am around them, they usually just want a smile and a sense of solidarity that you too love the beautiful game like they do. I grew up around these types of men and MOST of them have hearts of gold. Unfortunately booze can bring out the less well mannered aspects of someone and some are just outright thugs but honestly I’ve come across them extremely infrequently. I certainly wouldn’t ban football and I would not judge so sweepingly.