That would be less interesting. We already know that George Floyd was a small-time criminal who had done absolutely nothing that deserved an improvised death penalty.
‘BLM – the movement behind the myth’, now that might be worth a look.
Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
Ferrusian Gambit
2 years ago
Excellent article. In general when dealing with ancient and medieval history a large dose of humility is required. The sources are so limited and the physical evidence so scanty that a recognition that we will only ever understand what happened through a think fog of ignorance is worth bearing in mind.
Agreed – which was the point of the BM exhibition. They are examining whether the simple pantomime villain that christianity painted Nero as, was the whole truth. The fiddling while Rome burned being an obvious fabrication. It seems a bit pointless for the article to criticize this as a historical exercise, everyone knows Nero’s still coming out a monster – which leads me to believe that it’s yet another badly disguised dog-whistle calling the gammons to start frothing at the mouth about revisionist snowflakes etc etc ad nauseam. Here boy!
Confirming prejudices doesn’t put bottoms on seats or indeed bring punters to exhibitions. The BM was never going to present evidence to support the case against Nero. This is the way of things now. Not soon, but at a point in the future some hipster curator at one of our publicly funded institutions will treat us to: ‘Stalin – demon or misunderstood genius? Or perhaps, ‘Eichmann – the man who made the trains run on time’
It was actually Mussolini who was said to have made the trains run on time in a country where famously they did not.
Claire D
2 years ago
Great article.
As an aside, whilst I admire Hilary Mantel’s skill as a writer of fiction she is not an historian. I do not buy her thoughtful, tender Thomas Cromwell for one moment, not based on the evidence.
This article is particularly good partnered with Douglas Murray’s one I think, they complement each other very well.
Like political leaders from today History is like circle its always repeat itself Is a duty from human to separate real objective facts from false ones
Matt Spencer
2 years ago
A very well balanced critique and an enjoyable read, thank you.
Kremlington Swan
2 years ago
The populist will get away with anything he can, and Nero got away with anything he could, sated his vanity and cravings however and whenever he could, abused, tortured and butchered as much as he could, was as evil as he could be, and finally met the end he deserved.
Whether all satanic narcissists get their comeuppance I just don’t know. Let’s hope so. Or, rather, let’s hope they are spied before they can rise to power, but if they are not let them be cast down as soon as possible.
There’s a good deal of truth in your assertion.To be fair to Tiberius , though , he was a great deal more talented , at least militarily and administratively (albeit in his youth and early middle age) than Nero. Tiberius remains a fascinatingly complex man whom I fear we shall never fully understand.
abdullakhan.hamid
2 years ago
I have always maintain that history is relative, depending from where you look at it.
Maybe I have joined late but I currently only see 4 up ticks?
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Despite the joy of a life of Bacchanalian excess, will a little matricide thrown in, being a Roman Emperor was a hazardous occupation. More dangerous in fact than being a Gladiator*.
From A.D. 14 to A.D. 395, 43 of the 69 Roman Emperors (62%) died violently, mostly by assassination, although 11 did die in battle.
However we should perhaps thank Nero for deciding to keep Britannia, Roman. According to Suetonius there was talk of dumping the place, possibly because of the Boudicca Revolt but Nero persevered.
One might wonder whether he should have really bothered.
(* Almost as bad for English Medieval Kings. Between 1066-1485 of the 19 candidates, 8 died violently.)
Decius, Claudius Gothicus, Julian. I am having trouble making it up to 11.
Jerry Jay Carroll
2 years ago
Edward Gibbon having been mentioned, I recalled wondering why he was so hard on organized religion until I found he was a homosexual who no doubt was stung by the harsh strictures on that practice found in the Old and New Testaments as well as Islam. Even today the Dalai Lama says, “Wrong hole.”
Hearsay and libel against Britain’s greatest historian.
Last edited 2 years ago by Ferrusian Gambit
Karen Jemmett
2 years ago
I loved the breadth of historical detail in this article.. when I was young, you’d need to read several lengthy texts in order to cover that much, so young people are fortunate they can read things quickly. There were some funny lines too.. I particularly liked the bit about Nero being a public-spirited Keynesian in a toga.. laugh out loud! Thanks to the writer.
Mickey John
2 years ago
Good piece. This kind of revisionist silliness began some years back with people like Douglas Haig and Richard III. It continues with the likes of Thomas Cromwell.
Probably the worst offender is that people actually believe Braveheart is anything but unhistorical pabulum and a grossly distorted portrayal of Edward II.
Stephen Rose
2 years ago
Nero for the forth plinth in Trafalgar Square!
Excellent article, I shall go to the BM.
I went yesterday – thought it was a great exhibition. The Thomas Becket exhibition is good, too.
Last edited 2 years ago by Last Jacobin
Cynthia Neville
2 years ago
Thanks for a great review. Am still hoping to see it, though!
neil.mack
2 years ago
Marvellous that the metropolitan classes can find in Nero an authentic cultural hero. Bloated, arrogant, treacherous and perverted, the Emperor could easily be mistaken for the BBC. Aborting his own child and responsible for the deaths of an older generation, Agrippina and Seneca, he prefigured Our NHS. And how very contemporary to have to enquire Sporus’s pronouns. Perhaps the Guardian would like to follow up their touching tribute to murderess and extortioner Winnie Madikizela-Mandela with a supplement celebrating Nero’s achievements in the arts.
David Simpson
2 years ago
This made me wonder if in a couple of thousand years all historians had to work with was a think piece or two from the Grauniad on say mr b Johnson. How close to reality could they ever hope to come?
With a sample of his wallpaper, for colour and authenticity, obvs
serranogarciajose56
2 years ago
Excellent analysis Keep up the god job We have to see history from another perspective and this is a good one Thanks
Ian McKinney
2 years ago
Bit late to the party, but we went today and this article is absolutely spot on.
alexanderlshah
2 years ago
This article against Nero is UTTER BS!
Something you would expect from a writer of such partisan background and heritage.
Nero was one of the greatest emperors of the Roman Empire and the one who appropriately punished the so-called “Christians” of the Nazarene Chrestus Judas the Galilean who was preparing a Jewish War against Rome. The Nazarene terrorists who had nothing to do with Jesus were punished for their arson in Rome.
That does sound rather interesting. Maybe the British Museum will do ‘Edward Colston – the man behind the myth’ next?
Like your idea. And also maybe George Floyd – the man behind, under, over and completely hidden by the myth.
That would be less interesting. We already know that George Floyd was a small-time criminal who had done absolutely nothing that deserved an improvised death penalty.
‘BLM – the movement behind the myth’, now that might be worth a look.
Excellent article. In general when dealing with ancient and medieval history a large dose of humility is required. The sources are so limited and the physical evidence so scanty that a recognition that we will only ever understand what happened through a think fog of ignorance is worth bearing in mind.
Agreed – which was the point of the BM exhibition. They are examining whether the simple pantomime villain that christianity painted Nero as, was the whole truth. The fiddling while Rome burned being an obvious fabrication. It seems a bit pointless for the article to criticize this as a historical exercise, everyone knows Nero’s still coming out a monster – which leads me to believe that it’s yet another badly disguised dog-whistle calling the gammons to start frothing at the mouth about revisionist snowflakes etc etc ad nauseam. Here boy!
Welcome back Kevin! We’ve missed you.
Confirming prejudices doesn’t put bottoms on seats or indeed bring punters to exhibitions. The BM was never going to present evidence to support the case against Nero. This is the way of things now. Not soon, but at a point in the future some hipster curator at one of our publicly funded institutions will treat us to: ‘Stalin – demon or misunderstood genius? Or perhaps, ‘Eichmann – the man who made the trains run on time’
It was actually Mussolini who was said to have made the trains run on time in a country where famously they did not.
Great article.
As an aside, whilst I admire Hilary Mantel’s skill as a writer of fiction she is not an historian. I do not buy her thoughtful, tender Thomas Cromwell for one moment, not based on the evidence.
This article is particularly good partnered with Douglas Murray’s one I think, they complement each other very well.
I do agree that Mantel’s Cromwell isn’t the real one. He was a smart man and ideologically driven but he wasn’t tender.
Also ambitious and ruthless, an ideal person to organise Henry’s tyranny . . . for a few years anyway.
I always say that a good rule of thumb for English historical figures is: if your name’s Cromwell, you’re a wrong ‘un.
A little hard on Ralph Cromwell, 3rd Baron Cromwell, Lord High Treasurer of England from 1433 to 1443.
Like political leaders from today History is like circle its always repeat itself Is a duty from human to separate real objective facts from false ones
A very well balanced critique and an enjoyable read, thank you.
The populist will get away with anything he can, and Nero got away with anything he could, sated his vanity and cravings however and whenever he could, abused, tortured and butchered as much as he could, was as evil as he could be, and finally met the end he deserved.
Whether all satanic narcissists get their comeuppance I just don’t know. Let’s hope so. Or, rather, let’s hope they are spied before they can rise to power, but if they are not let them be cast down as soon as possible.
Nero just took it too far. A little more cunning and political acumen would have ensured his survival, as it did Tiberius.
Yes, maybe. Maybe he learned his lesson and opted for a marginally less transgressive approach next time round.
Could be, who knows? So many unknowns.
Nero’s popularity ended when he ran out of others people’s money to spend.
There’s a good deal of truth in your assertion.To be fair to Tiberius , though , he was a great deal more talented , at least militarily and administratively (albeit in his youth and early middle age) than Nero. Tiberius remains a fascinatingly complex man whom I fear we shall never fully understand.
I have always maintain that history is relative, depending from where you look at it.
Not sure why you’re attracting downticks for that perfectly reasonable comment!
Maybe I have joined late but I currently only see 4 up ticks?
Despite the joy of a life of Bacchanalian excess, will a little matricide thrown in, being a Roman Emperor was a hazardous occupation. More dangerous in fact than being a Gladiator*.
From A.D. 14 to A.D. 395, 43 of the 69 Roman Emperors (62%) died violently, mostly by assassination, although 11 did die in battle.
However we should perhaps thank Nero for deciding to keep Britannia, Roman. According to Suetonius there was talk of dumping the place, possibly because of the Boudicca Revolt but Nero persevered.
One might wonder whether he should have really bothered.
(* Almost as bad for English Medieval Kings. Between 1066-1485 of the 19 candidates, 8 died violently.)
Decius, Claudius Gothicus, Julian. I am having trouble making it up to 11.
Edward Gibbon having been mentioned, I recalled wondering why he was so hard on organized religion until I found he was a homosexual who no doubt was stung by the harsh strictures on that practice found in the Old and New Testaments as well as Islam. Even today the Dalai Lama says, “Wrong hole.”
Hearsay and libel against Britain’s greatest historian.
I loved the breadth of historical detail in this article.. when I was young, you’d need to read several lengthy texts in order to cover that much, so young people are fortunate they can read things quickly. There were some funny lines too.. I particularly liked the bit about Nero being a public-spirited Keynesian in a toga.. laugh out loud! Thanks to the writer.
Good piece. This kind of revisionist silliness began some years back with people like Douglas Haig and Richard III. It continues with the likes of Thomas Cromwell.
Probably the worst offender is that people actually believe Braveheart is anything but unhistorical pabulum and a grossly distorted portrayal of Edward II.
Nero for the forth plinth in Trafalgar Square!
Excellent article, I shall go to the BM.
I went yesterday – thought it was a great exhibition. The Thomas Becket exhibition is good, too.
Thanks for a great review. Am still hoping to see it, though!
Marvellous that the metropolitan classes can find in Nero an authentic cultural hero. Bloated, arrogant, treacherous and perverted, the Emperor could easily be mistaken for the BBC. Aborting his own child and responsible for the deaths of an older generation, Agrippina and Seneca, he prefigured Our NHS. And how very contemporary to have to enquire Sporus’s pronouns. Perhaps the Guardian would like to follow up their touching tribute to murderess and extortioner Winnie Madikizela-Mandela with a supplement celebrating Nero’s achievements in the arts.
This made me wonder if in a couple of thousand years all historians had to work with was a think piece or two from the Grauniad on say mr b Johnson. How close to reality could they ever hope to come?
With a sample of his wallpaper, for colour and authenticity, obvs
Excellent analysis Keep up the god job We have to see history from another perspective and this is a good one Thanks
Bit late to the party, but we went today and this article is absolutely spot on.
This article against Nero is UTTER BS!
Something you would expect from a writer of such partisan background and heritage.
Nero was one of the greatest emperors of the Roman Empire and the one who appropriately punished the so-called “Christians” of the Nazarene Chrestus Judas the Galilean who was preparing a Jewish War against Rome. The Nazarene terrorists who had nothing to do with Jesus were punished for their arson in Rome.
Yes dear.
How are things at the Flat Earth Society these days ?