People are far more interested in what happens in their own country than in others; patriots put their birthplace first and “progressives” put theirs down. But both sides are united in the exceptionalism they display towards their homeland, either believing it to be better or worse than anywhere else.
For me, it’s always been different. The Soviet Union was hardly a wallflower at any stage in history; going from Tsarist empire to Communist superpower to an entire era of muscle-flexing under Vladimir Putin, up to and including Moscow’s Victory Day parades at the weekend. But that hardly put me off — for the simple reason that I was raised as a Soviet patriot.
When I hear friends’ horror stories about their parents, I always think how lucky I was. My dad was handsome and witty, generous and kind — even if he was a big fan of a system believed to have killed around 20 million people.
He wasn’t a big reader; it wasn’t the Communist theory he liked. Rather, he idealised the Soviet Union in a manner that reminds me of the images on the cover of The Watchtower, the Jehovah’s Witness magazine; people wandering beatifically unharmed among wild animals, the lion and the lamb making eyes at each other.
He was, for example, obsessed with the cleanliness of the Moscow underground stations; in a television film I wrote about him, Prince, a young Sean Bean tells his daughter about Russia: “It’s very cold, very clean… and everybody’s happy. Because the country belongs to them. Their subways stations are immaculate — you could eat your dinner off the floor. Because nobody drops rubbish. Because it all belongs to them — the people.” Never religious, the USSR was his Promised Land.
A clever man from an illiterate, poverty-wracked home, he refused the promotions offered him at the distillery where he worked and instead organised his trade union, in the interests of not being bought by the bourgeoisie. After the factory closed, and before he died of the mesothelioma that he had contracted as a teenage builder, his last job was as a car-park attendant. He died seeing it as a triumph that he had made no advancement up the class ladder.
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SubscribeI come from the polar opposite (Eastern bloc) background: ex-landed/urban gentry ‘intellectual’ stock impoverished by the communists; what’s common with Julie Burchill’s father is the poverty. I hated – still hate – everything about communism and the USSR with a fiery passion. I made peace with Russia though as an adult.
It was a good read. Reminded me when i used to read Burchill 20 or so years ago in the Grun (don’t ask) i always had this queasy feeling: i love her way with words but can’t stand her politics. She still writes well, sod the politics. Good read.
Those are amazing. Have an old tape somewhere, brilliant stuff.
^ Sounds like a perfect Englishman to me. A philosophy to live by.
Thank you too!
My best friend comes from Slovakia and says exactly the same thing. She generally doesn’t like to talk politics but was seriously concerned about Corbyn’s brief rise to prominence. When she asked me what on earth these people thought they were voting for, they should come over to spend some time over here to see where that ends up – I honestly was at a loss to say.
Even if you hate the politics, socialist art can be amazing. I’m an absolute sucker for a bit of socialist sculpture which you can see all around Vienna (from the Red Vienna period in the first years of the 1st republic). The amazing wall mosaics in Dresden! The astronomical clock in Olomouc (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olomouc_astronomical_clock)! The Green Bridge in Vilnius! I could go on…
Yes, I see what you mean about the beauty of certain socialist art and architecture. Who could not be impressed by the grandeur of the underground stations in Moscow or the vastness of Karl-Marx Allee in East Berlin? But then the words of witnesses to the mindset that produced that art, witnesses like Czeslaw Milosz in The Captive Mind, come to mind, and I can’t help but suppress a chill.
Nice clock!
The 50s era soc-real style was fondly nicknamed as “stalin baroque”, bit of a misnomer as it was a mix of neoclassical elements and late 19th century realism. Lotsa doric columns topped with tympana adorned wit mosaics and frescos depicting the Working Man or Woman at Glorious Work. Those were the entrances of (typically) 4-storey apartment blocks, which were solidly built of brick, the rooms had hardwood parquette and those fantastic great ’tile stoves’ (wood + coal burners). Those houses are still robust and kept their value well. Then from the sixties onward came the “modernisation”, the good honest stalin-baroque was replaced with badly made, shoddy cheap highrise slum architecture.
I was brought up a red so naturally I was taken to see the Red Army Choir. We were all like sleepers for the revolution that never came.
Odd how we never hear this same story on growing up with parents devoted to Na* ism; them being peas in a pod with Stalinist Communism in so many ways, essentially. I remember Ed Milliband speaking so fondly of his hard Communist father having Hobsbawn over for lovely family dinners, and the boys so enjoying hearing these wise men discussing their cherished philosophy. In my thinking the Hammer and Sick le could be changed for the Sw**tik a without any loss of horror. That Liberals cannot see this is a constant source of amazement to me. I remember back as a youth when Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn came out and reading it, I remember in the 1960s passing through Bulgaria and talking to some broken and desperately poor ex-Aristocratic wretches, and the horrors of the Red Army raping its way across Germany after years of each committing atrocities on each other….The genocide of the Kulaks, how one could idolize that all – may as well idolize Pol Pot.
One is a taboo, the other has become a source of nostalgia for some bizarre reason for those who were not subjected to either.
In most of the ex-soviet-bloc countries both are regarded as the same. In my old country communist symbols / propaganda are outlawed the same as naz¡ symbols / propaganda / paraphernalia.
Currently, the biggest threat to the ex-eastern-bloc countries is the incessant meddling coming from the marxified West.
I think it comes down to the fact that the USSR became a bit less murderous from the 50s onwards after Stalin and Beria died. The na zi regime ended in fire and gas chambers. The USSR ended in a wall falling down. Soviet officers also played their part in avoiding conflict with the West at times (especially during the Cuban Missile Crisis), albeit for pragmatic rather than altruistic reasons. Not quite the rabid sonderkommando.
Still an evil regime (and one that out-did the Germans in savagery between 1919 and 1954- looking at you Yagoda, Yhezov, Beria, and Blokhin!), but one that had time to become that sometimes friendly-if-sinister old uncle that your parents won’t let you talk to at Christmas parties.
Well, Geoffrey, maybe it outdid the Germans in savagery between 1919 and 1954, but surely not between 1933 and 1945. The great Soviet novelist Vassily Grossman made the comparison between the Soviets and the Nazis in his masterpiece “Life and Fate”, each with their own red flag, but he preferred the regime that let a Ukrainian Jew like himself become the top Soviet war correspondent to the regime that murdered his mother.
I remember seeing the Russian ambassador to Canada give a speech in Ottawa at the time of the NATO aggression on the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, the so-called Kosovo war. He said that it was NATO’s illusion that it had kept Europe from descending into war. He said it looked more like the Warsaw Pact had kept Europe from descending into war for five and a half centuries. Now it was gone, it was one war after another. He had a point.
The Soviet Communists might have tolerated some Jews who had their philosophy, but if you were part of a race, which was in Stalin‘s way, you were sent off to the gulags, shot or starved to death. (Cossacks and the peasants of Ukraine )
They played the Cuban Crisis well, in fact like a good Chess Master.
Final Result: US Jupiter Nuclear Missiles withdrawn from Turkey: Game over!
.
Just a pity these game players forced the world to hold its breath. I’m sure a lot of common people would dearly have liked the opportunity to shove a Jupiter missile up the Soviet and American leaders’ are*h*les.
Beautifully written, searingly honest piece of writing. I come from a similar but oh so different background and still resonates so strongly with me.
Can’t you get a gig on the BBC or some such (ignore the Gruniard, the rest of us do) ,please?
Thank you!
I particularly liked your article ( some years ago in The Spectator) where you describe how the middle classes have colonized the entertainment industry , so they are no longer an outlet for a talented working class kid.
Is Julie Burchill unique among UnHerd columnists – indeed, among journalists in general – in replying individually to every comment posted by ordinary readers? This is admirable courtesy!
Thank you – I’m about to finish my book revisions so I’m in an EXTRA good mood!
I couldn’t agree more, and given some of the ‘nutters’ ( myself included) on this forum, a very brave move indeed.
You’re no nutter – I am though!
“It takes one to know one”, as some Ancient Greek sage once said.
“Ecce nux”!
As that great Equestrian Prefect Pontius Pilate * would have said!
(* sadly we don’t know his Prenomen).
Ecce nucem shurely?
I don’t think so – otherwise Pontius Pilate’s phrase would have been “Ecce hominem”. I believe on the basis of a bit of online research that “ecce” normally (but not always!) took the nominative in classical Latin, because it’s not understood as a verb – more an exclamation like “Lo!”. But I fear I didn’t have the benefit of a classical education so I have to defer to those who did. Perhaps Mr Stanhope can clarify the matter?
Surely not shurely surely?
Only in the Accusative, but this is in the nominative as in : Ecce H**o.
Isn’t nux/nucem the object of the imperative form of the verb ecce? Or is the nut being addressed, in which the vocative case would apply?
Did you know they’ve altered the order of these? It used to be Nom Voc Acc Gen Dat Abl. It’s now Nom Gen Dat Acc Abl Voc. IHNI who thought that was necessary.
I assumed Basil was using the vocative as part of the ongoing ‘nutter’ banter.
No I wasn’t aware they had altered the order.
Outrage!
I also thought Kennedy’s Latin Primer was beyond reproach in all matters.
My own earlier reply seems still to be awaiting approval – one supposes because the second word used by Pilate of Christ could also conceivably be interpreted as a slur against men attracted to persons of their own gender. I rephrased it to avoid this problem, but it’s still awaiting approval for the moment, so here goes again!
“I don’t think so – otherwise Pontius Pilate’s phrase would have been “Ecce hominem”. I believe on the basis of a bit of online research that “ecce” normally (but not always!) took the nominative in classical Latin, because it’s not understood as a verb – more an exclamation like “Lo!”. But I fear I didn’t have the benefit of a classical education so I have to defer to those who did. Perhaps Mr Stanhope can clarify the matter?”
Which it seems, while my comment languished in limbo he already has!
Sadly, under this present system I had no idea you had even replied.
Your are correct about the ambiguous nature of ‘ecce’, and many happy hours could have been spent in discussion!
However as ‘nux’ is the same in nominative and vocative we had better leave it there.
What we really needed was an outstanding Classicist like the late Enoch Powell to adjudicate.
This thread offshoot is like a section of “Down with Skool!” being transmitted from a parallel dimension in which Nigel Molesworth is a well-educated courteous gentleman, and is one of the reasons I’ll be signing up for Unherd membership (would’ve done already but no Paypal option ).
I’m also hoping people will keep replying to this so it becomes a column of single letters pressed against the right-hand side of my tablet, for that would amuse me greatly. I’m easily pleased.
Sorry, what were we talking about?
I’m glad you’re enjoying it.
Mr Chamberlain & I make sporadic off- piste excursions, if only to alleviate the current state of national gloom.
Incidentally why does the text, ‘move to the right’ and then ultimately reduce to one letter per line?
Perhaps to discourage discussion?
As you will see above (at least, as I can see, so it’s true of the way in which UnHerd is formatted on a laptop), the text only moves to the right for a while, and certainly never reduces to one letter a line. We have now reached minimum width.
Thanks.
However few days ago it did reduce to one word per line, but now it seems to have corrected itself. Weird!
OK – slightly disappointing but “We have now reached minimum width” is a phrase to treasure, so that’s some comfort at least.
Thanks for the off-piste excursion.
Thank you for another heartfelt and beautifully written piece.
“I wasn’t scared of hard work, but I was scared of going nowhere”
I understand that perfectly.
I also turned down promotions in my youth for the reason your father did but eventually got over it for the sake of my family and now I’m middle class.
Thank you, Brendan.
I’ll stop commenting now as have to get back to my book revision but thank you all so much!
“have to get back to my book revision” A history book?
NAUGHTY! ‘Welcome To The Woke Trials: A Love Story’
This was a really good piece.
The relationship Julie describes reminds of someone I knew at college, who was a pro-Soviet Communist having learnt it from his own father. He saw no reason for allowing elections in Russia because “they’ve got a system they’re happy with”; the Berlin Wall was put up to stop West Germans fleeing to East Germany; Soviet troops were invited into Afghanistan; NATO was about to invade the USSR; Operation Barbarossa was an example of the west’s treachery; shooting down that Korean airliner was self-defence; everyone in Russia was equally rich; Russians didn’t own cars because they didn’t need them; there was no cheating in the Olympics; SS20s were peaceful, unlike cruise missiles; and so on.
He was academically smart, but in all other ways profoundly, profoundly stupid. I have no idea what he made of the USSR’s collapse, but I would guess it took him completely by surprise. Even at 22, his thinking was a lot less advanced, and his mind less mature, than Ms Burchill’s already was when she was 17. If I had to guess where he is now, I’d guess exactly nowhere, the fate Julie avoided (and well done too).
Your friend sounds rather like Keir Starmer, based on what we have read of his youth.
Thank you, Jon.
Cracking piece in the Telegraph this week on punk.
she criticized them from the comfort of the West, too.
For a link between ‘the Terror, the massacres, the starvation’ and your new love, Israel, see Sever Plocker’s article, ‘Stalin’s Jews’:
Thank you, but I’ve admired Israel since I was very young – I wrote a book, Unchosen, about it. I think it’s 5p on Amazon!
Julie Burchill—Thank you for replying. This Philip Giraldi article, ‘Israel’s Story: Lies from top to bottom’, will leave your admiration undented but others may find it useful.
I disliked the Soviet Union but I very much admire the resurrected Russia, which surely has one of the world’s most stirring national anthems, played here at this year’s Victory Parade in Moscow.
The ‘goose stepping’ was also impressive!
It’s listed at £873.79 in paperback,but £3.49 in hardback. Ordered the cheaper one!
Genrikh Yagoda, may not be as well known as Adolph Eichman, but he is not completely unknown, unlike Moa’s killers, who make both seem like rank amateurs.
Orwell wrote about a similar thing in the Lion and Unicorn – describing how English middle class intellectuals despised England and worshipped the USSR – and continued to do so even after evidence of genocide began to emerge – so many parallels with middle class Remainiacs and their love of the EU
I said so many parallels – the irrational love of a political entity over your own country and an inability to see fault due to your hate induced blindness
What a great article, and by that I mean something I enjoyed reading regardless of whether I agree with the subject matter or not. It does remind me of my own college years when many fellow students followed the USSR or Che Guevara but the difference being, they could not explain why. Also good to see that you were able to come to your won conclusions and debate your father. I completely understand the feelings aroused by the Soviet propaganda, it brings up memories of a trip to Spain where I met a Catholic convert who, when asked to explain why she had converted from protestantism, said she loved the glory of the Catholic church and had a particularly charismatic priest who I got on with very well with over a shared love of ancient Greek history. Thank you, I might have to look up some of your other stuff now.
Thank you, Daniel – I write every Sunday in the Telegraph.
Wokers and Woke is the opposite of Communism, based on a strict class conflict theory which would judge identity politics to be bourgeoise deviation.
Really important point which I hope you will develop in your book!
Yes, WELCOME TO THE WOKE TRIALS is very much a Left wing critique of Woke.
Really looking forward to it! I love your writing.
Always admired Julie, especially in her love of Israel and support for the Jewish people.
Her love for her dad is unconditional and deep, his politics only being an associated benefit alongside days out “spreading the word”as it were.
An admirable contrarian in the very best of British tradition.
And, because she has seen where good intentions inevitably end up? She’s one of our cultural canaries that we need. Thankfully, we’ve still got a few left, so treasure them while you can.
The good guys DO win, Julie is one of them. Even in the Godawful days of NME Foucault Bollox ( Du Noyer and the appalling Morley), she was genuine, honest and a great writer
Thank you, C!
Funnily enough I yearn for the days of Julie at the NME in the same way that her father yearned for the USSR. ‘Whatever happened to Barney Hoskyns, Paul du Noyer, Ian Penman , Comrade Morley…whatever happened to good recorrds?’ as the song goes.
I was determined to leave while still a teenager, and I did, at 19. I’m so pleased you liked my juvenilia!
Speaking of your juvenilia, just last year I read Damaged Goods, an entertaining collection of various of your pieces from the early to mid-80s.
Thank you! I think Girls On Film is my favourite book from my youth – so funny to think it was before the internet and I used to go to the library to take out books about Hollywood, too poor to buy them.
I read Girls On Film a long time ago and still have it somewhere. That should, of course, have been Damaged Gods, not Damaged Goods in my post above.
As a phrasemaker you remind me of Clive James at times.
I LOVED HIM – thank you!
I read Julie’s stuff back then cos it was compulsive even when it annoyed me. I was excited by punk from a distance but thought I was too old at 22. Later I realised many of them were lying about their age!
Burchill’s dad’s loyalty to the Soviet Union reminds me of the novels of the 20th century French novelist Roger Vailland. His theme was that the workers were involved in a permanent war with capitalists which it was important never to win because the nobility and legitimacy of their class was about struggling but not triumphing. Vailland supported the PCF along with 25% of the French electorate at its postwar peak but never joined. His contempt for the bourgeoisie and working class people who had higher ambitions than perpetual, voluntary dependence on the boss class was monumental, as was his typically French misogyny.
Yes, once I realised that history was not destiny I lost my working class cred with the socialists.
In the 1960s, as a teen in sunny Perth, Western Australia, I used to buy Sputnik (a kind of Soviet Reader’s Digest), which was very cheery. I think it must have been after 1968 that one of the Marist Brothers at school told me to think again about reading such tripe.
Glad that the author has it within her to take a long, hard look at what it took for the Soviet régime to become a superpower, the list of high crimes is indeed a long one.
Perhaps her father may have been in some sense “impoverished” by not having networked much with those who had brutal experience of that system, but I would say that how he viewed the “20 million” who paid with their lives to build this so-called “great power”, in other words as a Russian liberal once told me “a price worth paying”, is a failure of humanity that lives longer than the person himself.
Nice read, a very nice article.
Just one day in East Berlin in 1985 was enough to put me off any form of communism or socialism for life.
The detail about your father refusing to look at the stage during the Bolshoi performance is such a fantastic image. I can see it in my mind like I’m watching a film.
Thank you! It was very funny.
That was very funny – it’s ballet so it’s bourgeois, but it’s Soviet, so it’s necessarily good. How to reconcile these conflicting views! Bingo: you go to the ballet, but you then don’t watch. Classic!
‘All those gulags and ballet in the evenings’ as the character played by Peter Sellers didn’t quite say.
Great piece, Julie.
I especially liked this passage:
“But what I most approved of about the gymnasts was the way Soviet children who showed a particular talent were snatched away from home at an early age — Korbut was in full-time training from the age of eight — and sent to work in academies of excellence; meritocracy at its rawest.”
I completely agree. The gymnasts stand out in the collective memory, but Soviet ice skaters were also superb. Technically flawless, making everything look effortless. As a six year old, I watched the skating pair Sergey Grinkov and Ekaterina Gordeeva skate to gold in Calgary with the perfect routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B0tSnQKzwo. I was captivated and I’ve never seen anything like that since. And the tragic love story! It was like a fairytale.
When I read about what they were put through as children to achieve that, things look rather less rosy. What price for excellence? Good question.
Thank you, Katharine!
Another excellent article from Ms Burchill. Some very close parallels with my own upbringing too!
Thankyou Julie, that was an entertaining read, and a little window into an unfamiliar outlook.
Thank you, Dave!
Sounds a lot like my dad too. Fair play, fair shares ,wait your turn, do your bit.
Good morale for winning a war, but what about the Costas on credit ?
Good article. I heartily recommend a book called ‘Second-Hand Time’ by Svetlana Alexievich. This was written in 2013 and is basically a series of taped conversations with people in Russia, who comment on their reactions to the end of the Iron Curtain in 1991. It is a long book but a very easy read.
Basically, the interviewees split into two groups – those who see the new Russia as an improvement and those who only want to go back to the old Russia.
In a way, it is similar to the conversations every day on UnHerd. The ones who want the change are the wokes and the ones who want history and pride are the UnHerders. Interestingly, the polarities of the politics are reversed. (Right = woke, Left = UnHerd).
My uncle was a communist. I was quite scared of him as a child. Serious, never saw him smile or laugh. A hard guy and I think now mentally very damaged. His kids were the complete opposite of him.
Very fun and interesting story. Took real guts to write it, too. I raise a toast from 5,000 miles away.
My parents were Communists too and I remember the day Stalin died was a day of mourning in our house. My father committed identity theft and perjury in the 1930s to hide Soviet spies in the US, presumably on the instruction of his Party. He had a short wave radio in our basement on which he listened to Moscow Radio. He eventually tired of the Sovijets and became a Maoist.
My teenage years were mostly spent trying to conceal their activities in support of the Communists from my peers. My father died in 1968, still a Maoist. My mother drifted away from it and even in the end voted for some Republicans. Gasp!
I remained a leftist until I was in my 40s and after a “mugging by reality” have drifted further to the right.
Communism, like other cults, has a powerful draw. You cannot reach a leftist with reason – either he will see the fraud within or he won’t.
Woke: the Dishonest Abes.
A virtuoso perforamnce from La Burchill. Luvvit xx
He is in the vanguard of the emerging zeitgeist: “anti-tribe”. In this, people reject any form of bubble-membership and call a spade a spade. It might boringly be called objectivity. Will it flourish ? From this evidence it should do. Far more interesting than greenery and wokery IMHO.
Enjoyed the article. Approximately 12 years ago I was working abroad with some fellas from Eastern Europe. By and large good guys, no issues though a couple did have vague flirtations with the Far Right, or some romanced version of it. After a while I had a chance to have conversation with one, an Estonian, articulate guy and very decent. He said the reason for the interest in the far right was after growing up behind the curtain (and all that involved) anything that challenged directly communism was attractive. And the one easily visible thing in history that challenged the Communists was the Nazis.
Mother of God. When people convince themselves the Nazis weren’t so bad in comparison to communism then you know reds must’ve been bad!
Just love reading the comments section. I am American, my father was American and my mother is English. 90 years and still sharp. We never here these stories on the USA. It’s great knowing how people can adjust to the world even when it turns their life upside down. Well done, mates!
Emjoyed the article. Sounds as if JB may yet decide she is a libertarian. That people should be able to live their life as they want but not have any demand on other people to treat them in any special way, that we are all just people and have the rights to think differently and not get offended when others do.
my dad was always a labour man and manual worker but he had no interest in soviet politics.the only connection with ms burchill is that my dad also died of mesothelioma.i ve always had a thing about many things russian soviet-the wonderful posters,the flamboyant uniforms and the mayday shows of weaponry.the ussr football team who,though they ve had some great players,always seem to come up short.thanks,julie,for another great read but imagine the things you d have missed out on if you d been born in soviet russia.
Thank you, Steve.
I remember seeing Prince on TV years ago. Loved it. Funny, clever and heartfelt.
Thank you, Paul! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw8iqP9u1zk
Was this the same Dad who wouldn’t go on holiday without his alsation dog? Funny what you remember, isn’t it? I’d always assumed he was some kind of a d**k… but don’t get me started, lol
Is this a first?
You post a comment and the author of the article actually reads it and responds ! Scary…
After ‘Shuggie Bain’ wins the Booker its difficult to see how anyonw can succeed these days unless they come from extreme deprivation, alcoholic parent and sexual assault. Judy puts in a strong performance on these measures
I really enjoyed Ms Burchill’s article. There are some interesting parallels with my own political evolution and eventual awareness. However, I was a Trotskyite in my youth so the politically-correct attitude towards the Soviet Union was rather different to hers. I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now …
Presumably your father was too young to have fought in the War?
Additionally how is your support for a Israel holding up?
Yes, he was. Yes, my support for Israel (*a* Israel – is there another?) is holding up very well, thank you.
Thank you, ‘a’ = slovenly mistake! There seems to some uncontrollable gremlin inside my I-pad, and sadly I have no grandchild within range to deal with it.
Did your father ever express any views about that great ‘Bristolian’ Ernest Bevin?
Not that I recall – but Tony Benn (a great Brexiteer!) was our MP. My dad often saw him at meetings and once overheard him say in his cut glass accent to a working man ‘Please don’t call me sir, my good fellow!’
Only in England could such an eccentric as Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn, 2nd Viscount Stansgate, have existed.
His diaries were very amusing.
To be fair to Benn, I completely agreed with his analysis of why the EU was a bad thing democratically.
He & his contemporary Enoch were at one on the matter of the Common Market as it was then known.
I heard him speak too – whatever one might have thought of his ideas, he could certainly entertain.
Sorry Julie, completely disagree with your assessment of the USSR. Please read The Soviet experiment: Russia, the USSR, and the successor states, Ronald Suny, Oxford UP, 1998, for a well-researched account, which refutes all the lies about genocide, the numbers killed, etc, etc. Anti-communists like Hitler killed far more people than communists ever did. Similarly, read Mao Zedong: a political & intellectual portrait, Maurice Meisner, Polity 2007, for a more objective view of China after the revolution.
You’re quite right about the EU and I did enjoy your Brighton meeting about your play!
Socialists are banned from your far right channel, yet a discredited pea-brained bigot and homophobe is given a space. Nice.
How many people did European/English imperialism kill across the globe and then each other during two world wars and after that attacking communist states in “police actions”. You should have paid better attention in math class. European imperialism almost completely wiped out Native Americans in a multi-century genocide alone. Then there is the Belgian Congo….China….India… Such willful ignorance or patent lying has a name: PROPAGANDA.
You tell us. Come up with a number that can be verified. People have been killing each other quite effectively without imperialist involvement since we evolved. In fact suggesting that the people in the rest of the world aren’t capable of a bit of mass murder seems vaguely patronising.
You remind me of a line from an old comedy album: “Two wrongs never make a right, but three do.”
The Hammer and Sickle is every bit as abhorrent as the Swastika and actually killed one hundred million human being last century, not twenty. This article appears to suggest that we could also gush a little over fascism, after all it did run the trains on time…
Enjoy your little thrill at watching a flag, that is synonymous with misery, suffering and despair being raised. You disgrace the memory of those whose lives it snuffed out. Shame on you.
Did you actually READ it?
Clearly not. And worth pointing out that 20 million Russians died winning WWII for the rest of us
Why did we bother I wonder, if the Soviets did it all by themselves? How many Soviet convoys brought tanks, planes and other material to Britain? What was the Soviet contribution to the war in North Africa, and then Italy and France? What was the Soviet contribution to the defeat of Japan?
It wasn’t called a world war out of fancy.
FDR gave East Europe to USSR to break Europe, same as he required all Europe to de-Colonize right after the war, to break Europe financially. (Truman continued his plan)
This is obvious on how the (2nd Europe) invasion went into Marseilles and accomplished NOTHING wile Churchill pleaded for it to go into Greece, and thus the Balkans, towards Crimea, and so take German oil – but also would have kept East Europe liberated – BUT NO, FDR refused the only logical thing, the invasion of Greece, because he wanted Stalin to Crush East Europe. (Like he gave Patton’s war material to Monty, who squandered it, thus allowing Stalin to take Berlin.
Stalin was given East Europe by USA in one of the most despicable acts. I almost agree with Patton, that USSR should have been next – like MacArthur wanted to take China in 1950 – free the world of the scourge of Communism –
Nonsense. Countries don’t win wars by having the most casualties.
Yeah, and that was about 19 million more than had to die.
Rubbish. Read any good history – The Soviet experiment: Russia, the USSR, and the successor states, Ronald Suny, Oxford UP, 1998 – for the facts. Your nonsense is based on zero research,
The English and American flags, not to mention French and Belgian, have too many millions to count. And when we are counting millions, I think we agree that even a half million is a huge crime, when one murder can get someone the death penalty
And next week in Unherd we’ll have an article from Julie Bindel extolling her father who was a big fan of German fascism.
It’s extraordinary that you call *extolling* a piece which repeatedly mentions the tyranny and evil of the Soviet regime!
We need some Belgian writer talking of his lovable father who was entirely obsessed with how wonderful the Colony of the Belgian Congo was. Maybe say how Mobutu was misunderstood, and was really a vegetarian, and not a cannibal at all.
What are you talking about?
I’m loathe to sound like yet another commenter gushing over Julie (never been a fan of her misandry) but she doesn’t extol her father’s support for communism, she practically ridicules it. Read the bit about the fall of the Berlin Wall, for example.
Dead right. I rarely agree with Ms Burchill’s views but always enjoy reading them. Always entertaining and well written. Thanks for this one too.