I never get why you have to be “sensitive” about these issues. It seems to me if you went to someones house and they let you, out of their generosity stay with them and you committed a crime then you should not be surprised if the least you got was thrown out of that house permanently. I believe this is frankly understood the world over.
This does not mean that anyone of the same nationality/colour/gender or whatever as you should be under suspicion but it should mean that you are punished and if that punishment means you are in danger then to be honest you should not have abused your hosts hospitality.
Send a clear message that any laws broken apart from at the very lowest level will result in deportation.
I don’t know about Sweden but there was a Rochdale groomer spotted the other day who served 2 of his 6 years sentence and hasn’t been deported yet. What message does that send?
Correct. In the victim hierarchy, where white farmers are at the bottom, white women score lower than Muslim rapists, so the left’s prejudices instruct it to side with the rapists.
Especially white working class women, because not only do they somehow possess “white privilege”, but if you’re a typical upper middle class member of either the Mandarin class or the commentariat, those who, respectively make these decisions and write about them (or choose not to), they’re just not “people like us, dahling”.
The Left is now not only high status, but unbearably snobbish, with it.
Muslims voters follow their political mullah’s direction in voting, whereas young school girls do not have a vote. This is how short-term political logic works. It has very little to do with moral logic or rational logic! In this sense, the political Left is a cynical opportunistic class devoid of any moral or intellectual responsibilities.
Want some wild statistics, and good at finding needles in haystacks? Find the statistics of USA rape by race, and for one which is virtually entirely one way find White men raping Black women, and Black men raping White women, it is like 97% to 3% But as Prison populations are disproportionate to race, so is Rape in USA. This writer could have an endless subject to write on if she wished to pursue this in USA, or South Africa.
For starters there are by percentage hardly any white men in South Africa which is 90% black. So yes, rape is mainly perpetrated by black men – and mainly by far on black women – and some white women.
It doesn’t change anything in the US was the point, it’s far more common for black men to be raping white women than for white men to be raping black women.
Well, we know they’re women, whether or young or not, doesn’t much matter. It’s not less bad to rape a middle aged or old woman than it is to rape a younger one. The vast majority of Swedish women are white but again, it’s not less bad to rape a non white woman.
Take a look at their backgrounds…the Blair mob were all ex-Trotskyite social engineers turned venal capitalist snobs. The Cameron administration aped the same social values too. And Johnson and Carrie are more women than Cheri and Tony. God help us.
In the case of grooming gangs in Rochdale, Rotherham, etc, Labour control the gateways to the justice system. The PCCs, the Councils that employ the social workers and youth workers who could help the victims, the teachers. Add to that the Common Purpose training that almost all senior police officers seem to have received and you have your answer.
Take note that teachers who make clear that they don’t agree with the social justice mantra are barred from teaching. I read an article yesterday making that very clear – might have been in the Spectator.
Just google the following string:
teacher + sacked + uk + views
One of the articles that will come up from the bbc is about a young male teacher who addressed a group of pupils by saying, ‘Well done girls,’ when one of them was a girl who identifies as a boy. Sacked.
Look at the General Teaching Council for Scotland website. The whole thing requires a commitment to something they describe as Social Justice, as a professional standard. The whole bl00dy website is raving on about diversity and social justice – really hard left stuff in my opinion, and if you don’t subscribe to this, you can’t work.
How was that EVER allowed to come about in the United Kingdom?
Also Starmer was in charge of the CPS at the time and decided against prosecutions. I have also heard that one G Brown was also involved in the decision not to seek prosecutions. Allegedly.
The same Starmer at the DPP who said – along with a bunch of cross party MPs – like the awful Sarah Wollaston – that “all women must be believed when making rape complaints”
Of course, it only applies to middle class women, in this disgusting hypocritical society.
Just so you know, he makes this type of supposedly clever, but actually idiotic, comment on every subject. He is one of a handful of commentators on here who endlessly make the same extreme, cynical and nihilistic points, while usually entirely failing to engage with any specific points the author in question actually makes.
Ah yes, thanks Fraser, I didn’t realise that Labour get their kicks out of the rape of white girls. That just explains everything….
It’s a shame as these sort of comments have begin to dominate the comments pages of Unherd, which is a free thinking site challenging sacred cows, not supposedly a home for extreme Right dogma just as inflexible and unthinking as the ‘woke’ positions they criticise.
Apart from anything else, it is just lazy and boring!
I suspect this is hyperbole. Labor doesn’t really get their kicks out of the rape of white girls. Rather they choose to downplay the rapes because they view the plight of marginalized POC as a worse problem. They are nevertheless WRONG and should be voted out.
The Left don’t need to be in power. They simply need to control the institutions of power.
Much easier that way, and far less hassle. it’s called power without responsibility and is the Left’s favoured MO.
Absolutely. Look at the website for the General Council for Teaching in Scotland which controls the professional registration of teachers and the standards they must adhere to o be allowed to work.
It will astonish you. It did me.
it might be, and I’m going out on a limb here. That there is a link between Muslims and a prevalence to rape white women and children within that socio/religious group.
Especially when they are a minority in a foreign country, possibly with some justification from a specific interpretation of more nuanced religious teachings.
There are a number of issues caused by this, one is the political implications of bearing down on an ethnic minority. Particularly one which can be well funded and organised and playing out a specific tactic (whether all participants are aware of this or not) and which has a habit of calling out any and all forms of perceived discrimination against them, from anyone.
Another is the social experiment of multiculturalism, how can we legitimately say all cultures are equal if we allow evidence to escape that suggests this hideous social engineering scheme is baloney and that there are serious risks to our cultures by giving equal value to cultures whose traditions and practices are not only abhorrent but also illegal.
Another is the proclivity of adherents to this particular stream of religious philosophy to suicidal activities involving, planes, buses, trains, trucks and vest bombs. That and their willingness to cut off people’s heads in broad daylight in our capital cities.
but that’s only a problem if there is evidence suggesting this is all true. Right?
We used to call that “jungle fever” or “ gone native”.
At the time it was very much frowned upon, and perpetrators were expected to retire to their bungalow with a bottle of scotch and a Webley ‘bulldog’ and “do the decent thing “.
Do you think you may be on the wrong site?
‘to push back against the herd mentality with new and bold thinking, and to provide a platform for otherwise unheard ideas, people and places.’
They are “sensitive” about these issues because a certain demographic votes for certain party. Tougher immigration makes it harder for that certain party to win…
Ms Ali is not making international comparisons though. She’s analysing who commits “rape+” in one country, so the same definition is being used for Swedish-born versus foreign-born rapists.
I’d be interested to know of any country in the world and any definition of rape in which whites commit more of it than other ethnicities.
Is it any more acceptable to smear all left-wingers as getting a, “weird kick,” out of thinking of girls being raped, than it is to smear all Islamic men as rapists?
The article is not “smearing” all islamic male immigrants. It is however highlighting a fact, that islamic male immigrants have almost three times the propensity to commit rape as the indigenous male population. And that is a valid and necessary analysis. More important now than ever, because the serried ranks of racial grievance mongers are latching on to differences in convictions between the races as “proof” of institutional racism. It is no such thing, it reflects a real difference in criminal activity.
here is the thing: they are corrupted.
I’m not racist or anything. it’s cultural rather than racial.
women seem like loot that needs to be picked up by them. I have read some news about their culture and tradition and I was shocker after what I have read.(you might wanna research bacha bazi) They gang up and bruise civilians and harass women. this forces women to take precaution and to wear more PROPERLY. This is literally assimilating the culture and forcing you to live by their will. Living in Turkey Germany has a refugee policy, Turkes does not. So you choosed them carefully. everyone who wishes to come, comes to Turkey with ease. The Turkish goverment have been giving citizenship since 2015 to gain votes in the next election. I’m just about to lose my sanity.
Mark Preston
3 years ago
The left won’t talk about this because it runs contrary to their narrative that al cultures and all races are equal. Some cultures and some racial groups have some really awful attitudes towards women.
and biology. If you think a Swede is the same biologically as an African you have very pronounced glasses on. Just to see a difference google IQ by nation. As all science points to the fact IQ is genetically based, and then tuned by ‘nurture’ you can see there is a difference. Notice how Korean and Chinese and Japanese immigrants have very different outcomes indeed to other migrants is biological propensities, to say other is to be PC but lie to yourself.
Yeah, I did the research – IQ is more a product of cultural norms/expectations , opportunity and sheer hard work learning how to read properly,think properly (ie efficiently) learninghow to problem solve etc etc . However one could say the practical outcomes of all those parameters DOES lead to FUNCTIONALLY different IQs -though not genetically based…..
I’m not convinced that it dos run “contrary to their narrative that al cultures and all races are equal.” I believe that they accept that cultures differ, but that that does not make them in any way less equal. I do not know how they square that with their admirable opposition to something which is tragically familiar to the author of the article above: FGM. That is largely practised in Moslem communities from a certain part of North East Africa; it is part of their culture. If their culture is, in every way, equal to that of North Western Europe, how can we, NW Europeans, justify attempting to eliminate that part of it from NE African communities settled in Europe? Perhaps that is merely typical of the ability of the Left’s more dogmatic elements to believe several contradictory things at the same time, and then, when the contradictions are mentioned, to accuse the rest of us of “false consciousness”.
There is no opposition, “admirable” or otherwise to FGM in the UK, at least so far as legal prosecution is concerned. In spite of being on the law books since 1985, and revised in 2003, there has been only one successful prosecution, in 2019. Meanwhile, as of 2014, an estimated 170,000 women in the UK had undergone the procedure – without charge or conviction. Clearly the resistance in the criminal justice system is such that enforcement is next to impossible, and that is at least in part due to a lack of political will due to “sensitivities.”
Precisely how is that estimate arrived at?
I remember reading at the time of that successful prosecution that neither the father, who was acquitted, nor the mother was from a tribe which practises FGM. Much of the evidence seemed completely irrelevant to the charge, but would have been more applicable to a witchcraft trial, had there still been such an offence on the Statute Book.
A previous, unsuccessful, prosecution was, if I recall correctly, launched against a surgeon who attempted to repair further damage caused by childbirth to a previous victim of FGM.
It might be that there are very few prosecutions because, whatever the estimates are, there is actually very little evidence either that it is happening in this country, or that families in the UK are shipping their daughters back to the old country to have it done there. Certainly the cases to which you and I refer suggest a certain desperation on the part of social services, the police and the CPS.
You can be fervently opposed to something, but if it is either not happening, or happening very rarely, you will be hard-pushed to prosecute it.
“The tribe” by Ben Cobley is an excellent book that explains how the system of diversity works and how the liberal left use it to achieve their goals. It opened my eyes anyway! I’m sure other similar books are available. “The diveristy illusion” by Ed West is another excellent read on the history of multiculturalism/diversity in the UK.
It seems to me that if half a dozen offenders were to be deported amid a blaze of publicity – everybody in the country should know – then, in a way, deportation would become the ultimate deterrent to crime.
We know that prison sentences do not offer any sort of deterrent because life behind bars is this country is probably like living in a palace ‘back home’. The focus must be on deportation.
What do you suppose the response would be if a half-dozen offenders were summarily deported? No one would care why and certainly no one would care about the victims. The exercise would be decried as bigotry, phobia, and racism, there would be marches and probably violence, and govts would be expected to cave. Some likely would cave.
Not the first time deportation is mentioned as a deterrent. Don’t forget most of the migrants have either lost or detroyed their passport and identity papers ; don’t forget also that, in our democracies, deportation to a helluvah lot of countries is legally impossible because these countries either refuse to re-accept their citizens, when their identity is proven, or because these countries “cannot guarantee a fair trial” to the former expats, or the latter risk a death sentance. This doesn’t leave many eligible countries for deportation…
and? We are Anglo-Saxon, the Tens and Hundreds were the source of law throughout history till modern times. If the law does not protect ‘Neighborhood Watch’ is needed.
Unfortunately Neighbourhood Watch have no power to do anything apart from perhaps report. And that puts the responsibility for action right back on those who currently seem too afraid to do anything.
“Extraordinary rendition, also called irregular rendition or forced rendition, is the government-sponsored abduction and extrajudicial transfer of a person from one country to another with the purpose of circumventing the former country’s laws on interrogation, detention, extradition and/or torture”
Downvoted harshly – as this is a key comment actually.
It is forbidden in various international agreements to hand over perpetrators to organisations or governments where the human rights of the individuals cannot be guaranteed. Also there is the principle that people should be tried for crimes in the country where the crime(s) is/are committed.
If the original countries do not agree to take the deportees what then? And it undermines our adherence to various international codes of conduct if we vary the law according to the nationality of the perpetrators. More problematic still if the individuals, as you say, happen to have obtained UK citizenship.
Not saying this cannot or should not be addressed – but as it stands it’s not as simple to say “deport them”.
Reverse Special Rendition by Special Forces onto their beaches of lands. I have lived in several countries, I moved to the USA at 19, If I was a criminal in any Nation I feel they have every right to extradite me. Living in the nation of another is as sacred as marrying into a family, it places huge demands on you to reciprocate the obligations of being taken into their group. If you are in need they will care for you – and that is a great privilege, which violating is very bad and expelling justified for sufficient offense.
Not really the best use of Special Forces – but I can broadly understand your point. I completely agree that citizenship should be imbued with a good degree of responsibility and privilege.
However, on the reverse rendition and forced deportation: what’s to stop any other country doing the reverse by shuttling unwanted migrants off of their own shores? Who will pay to have the RN expanded or the Border Force to maintain constant patrols to stop this?
Once you start forsaking one agreement, you undermine a whole lot of other things.
I completely agree with you over “not really the best use of Special Forces”.
As you may know, a former commander of 39 Brigade is alleged to have described our Special Forces as “dustbin men who think they are brain surgeons”.
Has anything really changed and what are these allegations from Afghanistan or was it
Iraq?
There are clear precedents from both 16th century Spain and 20th century Germany about what happens when the ‘host’ community tire of the antics of unwanted immigrants, however benign they may have been. Unless this problem is robustly confronted now, we may start to replicate what has been going on in Belfast for the past century and more.
I bit of hard cash to the country taking them back would probably make the whole thing go more smoothly. If it’s a country that already receives aid we could make it a condition of any future aid.
It would say that for once we are a people who show more compassion for the victims – and by extension prospective victims – than we do for the offenders
Should be deported with entire family.Crime would drop if they knew they would all be deported
Kate S
3 years ago
Another example of women’s safety being sacrificed at the alter of woke.
I’ve read accounts of women within Muslim communities saying that they thought life would be different when they come to the West, only to realise that those liberal societies continued to capitulate to the Muslim men for the sake of being progressive, and resoundly ignored the suffering of the Muslim women.
there is the Islam problem and in the West, there is the trans thing which is in fundamental conflict with feminism. Oddly, the feminists seem more intent on protecting those who would harm them than to call out the harm.
Yes, there are quite a lot of radical feminists who oppose this. Unfortunately, I have nothing else in common with these women, who are usually on the hard left politically, are anti-family, and have a toxic view of men and male sexuality. But sometimes, you just have to make alliances on some issues where you can. The mainstream media and many human rights orgs, such as the ACLU, have already completely drunk the pro-trans koolaid.
To follow up on what Good Reason mention, i can understand why you’d think that, but feminists aren’t a homogeneous group, for example there’s a huge rupture within the feminist movement that’s been happening for a while. Gender Critical (GC or RadFem) feminists have been fighting the aggressive trans activists (not necessarily trans people per se) lobby who have also captured huge swathes of the younger generation of Liberal feminists (LibFems) for some time. Many RadFems have been attacked (both physically and online), taken to court, deplatformed and have lost jobs for speaking out about the very clear conflict of interest between trans activism and women’s rights. We’ve also been shut down over our critique of the largely untested puberty blocking drugs, sterilisation, and surgery that the Trans Lobby are encouraging in children who suffer from gender dysphoria. We’ve been hoping for some time now that the rest of the world will wake up to this danger but we’ve had very few allies willing to stick their neck and out help us out up till now – though i will say, it’s started to feel like somethings changing since Keira Bell – fingers crossed.
What is it, that leads masses of people to sincerely believe that a “beautiful life” instantly awaits them in Western countries, if only they can just get there?
There is no beautiful life anywhere; life is what people make of it and those who do best are those who work the hardest, delay gratification, plan for the future, and don’t expect to be given anything. Always been that way; always will. I feel sorry for these women, but really, people in f’d up societies need to start focusing more on improving those societies, not indulging in escapist fantasy and expecting governments in distant lands to fix their problems for them.
Kathy Prendergast
3 years ago
One of the most notorious rapes of this kind in Sweden, which happened a few years ago, involved a disabled woman who was confined to a wheelchair. She went into a migrant housing facility because she needed to use the washroom, and was gang raped by several of the men who were staying there. I remember thinking, somewhat guiltily, when I read about this (because everybody reasonably hates victim-blaming) how she could have been so foolhardy and trusting to have gone alone into a place she knew there were probably no women, was full of unknown young men not of her culture, who did not speak her language, and were probably unsupervised. I myself would not have gone into such a place alone, ever.. I’m far from paranoid, but a houseful of indigent foreign men, none of whom I know? I’d rather pee on the sidewalk. Is this something particular to Sweden, that women have tended to feel so safe for so long they’ve lost all wariness? Think that all men are as polite and gentlemanly as Swedish men? Or do they just feel so guilty for their natural suspicion that they suppress it?
Obviously women SHOULD be able to use the facilities safely, in a public building. But for that matter, no woman should be raped, ever. My point was that too many leftist European women seem to inhabit some kind of equality fairyland in which nothing bad could ever happen to them, even when invading predators are literally circling them like sharks. It’s not reality. I agree with you however about fighting back against this BS.
Raping a woman in a wheelchair? That has got to be one of the most perverse and despicable acts. It speaks volumes about how different the cultures actually are.
Yes, and to make it even more disgusting, apparently the case against all these men was dismissed, because, according to the male judge, the victim – although she said no – did not “fight back” hard enough.
I have heard tales from Swedish friends of women walking their dogs in groups now for safety reasons; not something that would have happened a decade ago. The Swedish decision, and it was a deliberate one, to engineer Sweden as a new multi-ethnic and multicultural state, is having very unpleasant consequences.
“I have heard tales from Swedish friends of women walking their dogs in groups now for safety reasons”
This happens in the Scottish town where I live. I think it’s also been exacerbated by lockdown, as the town centre is quieter, rather at previous night-time levels.
I walk my sister’s dog quite often; thank God I live in what is still a nice, safe community. Although I like to think this dog would not take kindly to anyone bothering me; being a lab retriever she’s not very big but definitely strong and feisty enough to mess someone up if she wanted to, or at least be a reasonable deterrent.
Its very easy to get culturally righteous here however i personally would speculate at least a significant proportion of these foreign men arrive in the West, watch pornography on the free Western internet, including individual white women being group sexed by groups of black men, and may “normalize” what they see. The same happens to teenagers, who are also very impressionable. I think this is also part of the “cultural” problem. Really, imagine what these men think when they simply log onto Google and can freely watch any manner of pornography. I doubt this is part of their home culture in Africa or the Middle-East.
Well the internet exists in foreign countries, you know. Also, pornography may indeed give western boys some unhealthy attitudes, but I don’t see stories of groups of young white men doing this sort of thing. No one’s going to ban pornography any time soon, so the solution has to be something else, perhaps accepting that some people won’t be a good fit in western societies.
sure. it is obvious these types of men are unsuitable. i posted a main comment elsewhere. this problem comes from the NATO wars against Libya and Syria, I imagine Unherd (which i know little about) might possibly generally support these wars. If so, this is the contradiction. The West is supporting essentially Al Qaeda Wahabbi against pluralistic often secular States such as Iraq, Libya & Syria. PBS only this week allowed an Al Qaeda leader free air time on US TV, where the leader exhorted the USA to support its “revolution” against the “evil” Assad in Syria.
There’s some truth to that – certainly the chaos resulting from such ridiculous wars has provided plenty of migrants, which perhaps is in the economic interest of a select few in the West. And perhaps that’s why the liberal West is so happy to cave to multiculturalism.
But this was going on long before the recent military adventures in the Middle East. In my opinion it is a consequence of Western liberalism itself. A desire to destroy the very values and norms liberalism claims to support appears to be built in. Or perhaps it’s simply that liberalism cannot defend itself with more liberalism.
I think you are on the right track here, but you are omitting some very important elements from the situation. One of the consequences or concomitants of liberalism is capitalism; one might say the capitalism is the economic and social system of liberalism, especially imperial capitalism (for instance, the invasion of the Middle East by the Western liberal powers from very early in the 20th century until now.) Capitalism destroys non-capitalist cultures. People are coming to the West from the Middle East in large numbers because their homelands have been destroyed by foreign powers, especially the United States and its NATO satellites. It should not be surprising that some of them are deracinated and and tend to turn to crime, extremism, and fanaticism. As these same powers are continuing to try to rule the world and turn everything they find into their image, one must expect the problems to also continue and grow more severe.
Do I think women are inferior to men? No, I do not. Do I think a women’s sole role in the family is to obey the husband and raise the children? No, I do not.
However these are perfectly acceptable viewpoints to a significant proportion of the world’s population.
Culturally righteous or not, it’s good to criticise this in a liberal society.
And you in turn have the right to perform A-grade mental gymnastics trying to justify or excuse those views. But I won’t agree with you I’m afraid.
” I doubt this is part of their home culture in Africa or the Middle-East.”
Funny how they have a word for it, in their own language- tahroush. The traditional practice of going out in a mob to catch and rape any female they can get their hands on.
This may be so in some cases but in fact most migrants, even from poor backgrounds, have smart phones and are familiar with the Internet, including its sleaze side. Apparently consumption of Internet porn is absolutely massive in many MENA states. Now, it’s not impossible that not so much the porn, as the overall behaviour and ambience in the west gives some of these young men the idea that all women are “available”, but actually I do not think that it is genuinely ignorance and misinterpretation of Western culture that is the problem – especially when the behaviour is worse and more dangerous than simply over-eager chatting up.
Some observers, and even I myself (years ago, sharing a hall of residence with some Muslim African and Arab pg students, who tended to behave in a very annoying way to the local women) notice that the men know that aggressive sexual propositioning, grabbing, harassing, is unpleasant for the women and doesn’t make them friends. But they do it partly out of resentment. The freedom and apparent equality of the women makes them feel that their manhood and its status is being devalued – and they care very much about that. So some react by trying to sexually humiliate the western women. Obviously in certain case this can turn into rape… One article I read discussed the problem with relation to Afghan migrants, who come from one of the most “masculine supremacist” societies even by MENA Islamic standards. The author, himself an Afghan, said sadly that they were not ignorant, and also pointed out that there were many cases in which they had tormented or directly attacked not young women in skimpy clothing, but mums out in parks with children, and even elderly women walking dogs. He diagnosed the problem as a kind of inchoate rage at the sight of ordinary women looking happy as they navigate public space. The rage is apparently so intense that some attackers seem entirely not to care when there are witnesses and no remote chance of getting away with the attacks.
I worked in Syria in the mid-90s and the young men at worksites all had access to porn DVDs and VHS tapes etc.
If Syria was “pluralistic and secular” then, as you appear to believe (it was, to some extent, because Assad Snr persecuted fundamentalists , locked them up en masse and otherwise “disappeared” them, so no problem on that score), it was also a police state with a mind-boggling degree of surveillance and control.
Oh, it’s very much a part of their home cultures.
Any place in the world where one hardly ever sees teenage girls or women out in public, or not out in public without being covered from head to toe, is a place full of male rapists, or ones in the making.
It’s a culture that fosters a particular kind of attitude, that men are not expected to control their sexual urges, so women must be concealed from view. When they’re not, they’re seen as fair game.
Last edited 3 years ago by Kathy Prendergast
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago
Ayan Hirsi Ali is being very measure and circumspect, but we all know the truth. If you follow podcasts like Sanity4Sweden you hear horror stories on a regular basis. And even the propagandist Swedish state media has reported that 50% of young people in Sweden now make detours and plans whenever they leave the house in order to avoid certain areas.
I’ve even heard that bright young Swedes are leaving, or planning to leave and go and live somewhere else because they can no longer see a long term future for themselves in their own homeland. Shocking and tragic.
One thing you would have to control for in this data is the demographics within the minorities. They might well be 5% of the population and 16% of the rapists, but rape is a crime committed mostly by younger men, and refugees are also younger men.
Of course, even so and taking this into account, it still suggests you shouldn’t admit large numbers of refugees.
Are young male migrants more likely to rape than young males who are not migrants? I think we know the answer. It’s nothing to do with age and all to do with values and culture. Swedish men are more likely to not rape women because their culture and values tell them it’s not a nice thing to do.
Yes I agree, in-depth studies do not go in-depth enough. Which I am finding more noticeable as with increased aggression and daily lives are being changed. I am not one for continual change as it causes disruption which in turn causes some things to be conveniently sneaked under the radar and this noticeable in the UK this year.
Well, that is indeed the question; I am simply observing that the 5% may not resemble the majority. If they are all males between 18 and 35 the relevant comparator is with local males aged 18 to 35, rather than the entire local M/F population from 0 to 100 years old. I suspect the answer would not change much.
In a similar way, when I was a yoof I was a holiday rep in Austria. We reps were a tiny fraction of the village population, but we were the majority of the drunkenness and philandering, because we outnumbered the local yoof, who were just as ill-behaved but less numerous.
William Cameron
3 years ago
Some religions naturally create sexual frustration. If a woman really needs to be covered from head to toe to stop inflaming passions there is something seriously wrong with those mens view of women.
I was brought up in a predominantly strict christian society where displaying women’s bodies was frowned upon and sex before marriage was a sin… But I never contemplated raping anyone.
Christianity stresses that both sexes are equally responsible for remaining chaste before marriage; it doesn’t excuse men for fornicating as long as it’s with non-Christian women. So you’re right; the pathology in Muslim societies isn’t entirely about sexual repression.
Last edited 3 years ago by Kathy Prendergast
David Weare
3 years ago
The sensitivties of the poor women & girls who have been raped always seems to be of secondary importance in these debates.
Liberal women, who profess solidarity with their fellow sex, are invariably silent when women are raped by immigrants or Muslim men.
The callous hypocrisy of the woke is quite remarkable and IMO completely delegitimised any progressive project they promote.
Liberal women has been silenced by progressive women. Just look at the trans issue. The same is happening to gays who are accused of being phobic for not wanting relationships with people who are genetically of the opposite sex. It’s hypocritical to be sure. It’s also harmful.
Richard Lord
3 years ago
So let me think about this for a moment. Through the Arab spring (encouraged by Western governments) and Germanys Merkel we had an avalanche of, mainly young men, migrants into Europe, further encouraged by the blackmail of Turkeys president. Many of these from countries who are reported to show little respect to women. Testosterone being what it is, was anyone really surprised that the resultant sexual tension ends with attacks on women?
Quite.
If you tell a boy from a young age that women are inferior and should serve men, funny old thing they might not grow up to be a man with particularly chivalric qualities.
and you tell them that white women have no morals and are therefore even further inferior and less worthy of respect. Add in a dash of conversion by rape/pregnancy and they are just being good Muslims…
Western testosterone levels are falling, about 20% since the 1980s, according to some studies. I’m inclined to believe them given the extraordinary behavioural changes in our current wave of adolescents from their predecessors, for example the quite unprecedented wave of gender ambiguity.
Those numbers are unobtainable, they are top secret, hidden from the public view to avoid further tensions between the hosts and Arab immigrants. The police just refuse to share it.
Rape is about power…over a perceived weaker individual…it’s not about getting your jollies. That’s just the means by which the power is taken.
Jon Redman
3 years ago
I think Ms Ali’s maths are a bit off.
To calculate the relative rate of offending of Swedish-born versus non-Swedish born, you don’t only divide 47.7 by 19.7 to get 2.4. You must further divide 52.3 by 80.3, which is the rate of offending among everyone else, the Swedish-born, which gives you 0.65. That’s their rate of offending.
You then divide her 2.4 by 0.65, which gives you the relative rate of offending of the non-Swedish-born cohort; which is about 3.7. So they are 3.7 times more likely to offend, not 2.4 times.
The 2.4 times comes about because it is the rate at which they offend compared to the general population – which already includes them. The reality is that 20% of the population offends at 3.7 times the rate of the other 80%.
Using the same arithmetic,
foreign-born individuals from North Africa and the Middle East
are 3.8 times likelier to offend, not 3.3 times.
Last edited 3 years ago by Jon Redman
George Bruce
3 years ago
I cannot remember who put it this way, but one writer compared the male Muslim behaviour towards women in Europe with that of an occupying army towards the females of the defeated population.
Certainly you can helpfully include the UK in any analysis of discrepancies between rape rates by the population de souche and the newcomers.
In the UK there has been no reporting of the range or scale of the problem. Over, 6,000 underage victims spread across over 50 towns and cities.
Based on a Google search of Local Press Court Reports.
Yes, you would expect Labour to engage in a cover-up but the Conservatives have not been any better. In any discussion where someone tells you how much immigrants have benefited Britain, it would be interesting to ask what value they put on this.
I find it amazing that people still make statements like this, believing that the Conservatives should somehow be “better” … the Conservatives are every bit as bad as Labour in supporting immigration and ignoring the negative consequences. They may make occasional bland statements about reducing levels, but never actually do it and clearly have no wish to. They’re both as bad as each other.
Hi George, It’s easily done, it probably speaks volumes about the state of the media that the Conservatives still have a reputation as a “right wing” anti-immigration party, with no evidence at all to support that. I think we’re on the same page.
We haven’t had a truly Conservative Government since at least April 20th 1968.
Even the redoubtable Lady T was unable to stem the tide of “lack of moral fibre” that had been systematically poisoning the country since at least 1945 if not considerably earlier.
I can’t see how they can benefit Britain.The costs of court cases alone must outweigh whatever they contribute.
anderslyden
3 years ago
It´s worse. The cited report from 2015 is obsolete, it´s just before the avalanche of immigrants from the Middle East and north Africa. The latest statistics from The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Bra.se) shows 9360 reported rapes 2020. This is second to only South Africa according to some statistics. Ethnicity is not reported in Swedish statistics. Corresponding Danish statistics, where etnicity is reported, shows that this category of immigrants stands for some 80-90 % of rapes.
Sweden now has more than 1 reported rape every hour!
If this is true. it’s the saddest thing I’ve heard in a long time.
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Condemning the whole does not impeded the wokerati from doing just that. White people are blamed en masse for a host of self-inflicted pathologies that exist within certain populations.
When do you stop being a victim? At some point, you have to embrace the freedoms that have been won. That also means accepting all that comes with it, from taking advantage of the opportunities past generations did not have to taking responsibility for your choices and their results.
“When do you stop being a victim?” Ah but for many being a victim is great because however bad your life is, it’s never your fault.
Richard E
3 years ago
I would love a breakdown of the 40.8% too, by religion and also by where their parents and grand parents were born. I am guessing you could find that ultimately the rape crisis is 90-95% muslim/third world immigrant stock related.
Plus, these figures for 2015 onwards are probably a lot worse than pre 2015.
Yes, when you examine the backgrounds of most of the ‘native born Swedes’ who commit rape etc, they invariably come from a certain background. There are plenty of Swedish podcasts etc out there with further information.
kinelll086
3 years ago
I am reminded of the case that Douglas Murray related in “The Strange death of Europe” A german girl was raped by an assylum seeker she then wrote to him prison apologising for the hateful comments he had received
Elise Davies
3 years ago
Having abandoned their ‘natural’ voting bloc, the white working-classes, the Left has made strenuous efforts to replace them with another client base.
This time their victims of choice (they always have to be ‘victims’) are immigrants of a particular religion. The obvious issue is that their new favourites are quite strongly opposed to women, homosexuals, and all other religions.
How the Left believes this to be morally acceptable, I have no idea. Perhaps someone could enlighten us?
The Left has no morals. It has instead a victim status scale whereby it sides with you or against you depending on how high you rank.
If you are white working class you are well towards the bottom. Above you are criminals, illegal immigrants, gays, and so on, but transsexuals outrank gays and women now, as do Muslims.
If miners riot against the police, the Left will side with the miners, although they struggled a few years ago when black South African riot police killed rioting black miners. White farmers are probably the lowest of the low to the Left, as hated in this country by Blair as they are in Zimbabwe by those of the Mugabe mindset.
The most esteemed imaginable person to a Leftist would be a mixed-race Palestinian Muslim transsexual criminal, who would outrank everyone and would be a constructive Leftist saint, literally above all reproach.
Except the transexual muslim would be killed by his family or peers. I smell a rat with the “liberal!” ,” marxist!” Name calling….the world is much more complex than left vs right or conservatives vs liberals.
We need to stop finding differences to name call and start finding some common ground or we’ll all kill each other.
I often wonder how such competing views can be held..I tend to think they can’t…. so suspect someone’s not telling the truth…
Pierre Pendre
3 years ago
In how many cases did the rapist and his victim belong to the same community? Rape is no more tolerated in MENA countries than it is in the West. So something liberated these young men to feel that they could commit a crime in Sweden that they would refrain from at home.
Scandinavia and Muslim countries are polar opposites culturally. It’s not implausible that the more open and sexualised society of Sweden encourages young Muslim men to consider Swedish women to be fair game. There may be an element of racial contempt for white women and the way they dress and behave with self-confidence.
European and American feminists insist that women should be allowed to dress as provocatively as they like without risk from men. What is a good argument in the EU and the US is not necessarily accepted by men, perhaps with little education, from countries where women are subjected to strict controls over what they do and wear.
What happened in Cologne seemed to be that large groups of Arab men took advantage of the opportunity in a crowd to use sexual abuse – a powerful symbol – to show their rejection of the culture of their new hosts which gives women equal status.
Another example of this was the rape in Cairo of CBS correspondent Lara Logan while she and her crew covered an Arab Spring demonstration. Shamefully, although CBS couldn’t avoid acknowledging she had been stripped and abused, it tried to hide her rape because it would have upset the US narrative of a brave new world. CBS wouldn’t have done that had Logan been dehumanised by white attackers;
The migrant surge in 2015 was composed mostly of young men. I wrote at the time that one of the big difficulties they would face aside from unemployment would be the lack access to sex and the socialising influence of relationships with the women in the countries where they settled.
Sweden allowed Muslim immigration long before 2015. How many young immigrants have Swedish girlfriends or wives which would be a true test of the compatibility of two different cultures?
The Swedes had to cancel a long standing music festival for young teenagers because they could not prevent migrants attending and molesting the girls.
it didn’t seem to occur to them that they could a) arrest and prosecute the offenders or b) just stop young men who did not have aSwedish passport from attending. Those actions would be discriminatory, I suppose. So instead they cancelled the festival.
Festival? What festival. ‘Do you remember a safe, rather charming music festival, for young girls , Sven?’ No, Erik, don’t think such a festival existed, ever.’
Apparently some public swimming pools in Sweden and other countries stopped letting in migrant males, out of desperation because there were so many complaints about them harassing and in some cases sexually assaulting women and even children. Predictably, they were screamed at for being “racist”.
David Owsley
3 years ago
Apologies if already mentioned but the Swedish rape stats were published annually until about 2008, when the obvious conclusions – the the wonderful and brave Ayaan highlights here – were becoming even more obvious. The reaction of the authorities? More policing? More education? More anything? No, the solution was to stop publishing the stats.
Same in the UK. The British Crime Survey demonstrated that the most prolific racial offenders were ethnic minorities. The solution was to stop compiling it.
The data about the ethnicity of the offenders has been censored for the last 20 years because so many of them are ethnic minorities. White racial crimes against ethnic minorities were virtually unknown, but ethnic minorities committed not only most of the crimes against whites, but also most of those against other ethnic minorities.
All that’s made public now is the respondent’s details. Information about the offender is censored.
Johannes Kreisler
3 years ago
Thank you AHA for another excellent article, everything you write is well worth to read.
To those not familiar with Angry Foreigner’s youtube channel yet, i highly recommend him – he’s a young Bosnian living in Sweden, regularly discussing in-depth the crime/rape situation in Sweden and the politician’s / media’s handling of the matter: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8kf0zcrJkz7muZg2C_J-XQ
Wow, that video was made in 2015. Six years ago. And still as fresh and relevant as the day it was made!
Sharon Overy
3 years ago
Interesting that they only looked at, or only had access to, data up to 2015. In other words, before the ‘migrant crisis’.
simon-curran
3 years ago
I guess one of the most appalling examples of what happens when links are ignored for concern about offending minorities as a group, is what has happened to thousands of white kids across the north of England. Being systematically raped in their thousands for years, by primarily men with a Pakistani-Muslim background, with authorities turning a blind eye because it was politically and socially inconvenient for the liberal class to admit what was happening. Unfortunately it had to be done on an industrial scale for many years for the authorities to even acknowledge it. Absolute disgrace! Certainly don’t tar all with the same brush, or blame the majority of a community for the actions of a small minority, but don’t treat us like idiots either. It is clear to anyone that takes the time to research how inconvenient truths are often buried by the authorities on these matters and it does nothing to improve trust between citizens and the public institutions.
Derek Cuff
3 years ago
Within the cultures of North African and parts of Asian communities are the issues of Female genital mutilation , Honour based violence , Forced marriage .There is also an issue of Muslim men raping women who are not of Muslim faith who they see as fair game ( Rotherham ) – All these issues are conveniently not discussed due to an extraordinary intolerant dangerous ideology perpetuated by people who want to rob us of cognitive liberty – This will result in a back lash
It’s a peculiar “religion” that tolerates male adherents seeking sexual release with whomever they want (consenting or otherwise), as long as they’re not women or girls of “their” community. Isn’t part of religious faith being expected to have self-control?
John Cole
3 years ago
What this article doesn’t say is the ethnic identity of the victims, in the UK it’s predominantly white, vulnerable girls…when you can get the ‘authorities’ to admit the truth.
For example, operation ‘Sanctuary’…(don’t laugh) here in Northumberland, opened with a senior copper stating the abuse has been perpetrated by men from all communities..this massage was continuously repeated all through the investigation.
Yet, when it came to prosecutions where all 99.7 % of the perpetrators white local, or white immigrants from America/NZ and Europe?
Nope, nearly all from Pakistan, but all of them professed to be of the ‘religion of peace’
Sorry, I used to be a normal middle of the road kind of bloke, tolerant regarding limited immigration, sexual freedom…as long as you don’t push it in my face…a typical child of the sixties.
however if this current govt doesn’t start standing up to the wokeists who seem to inhabit every strata of our society, my tolerance may ebb, there are other political parties on the perimeter, there day seems to be approaching.
Fred Atkinstalk
3 years ago
If you bring up a boy in a culture which tells him that females are inherently inferior (‘deficient in intellect’ to quote one particular prophet), that his belief system and deity are superior to those of other beliefs and that he has divinely sanctioned rights over the inferior sex, particularly those of inferior cultures and religions, how do you expect him to behave?
If he is brought up to believe that he has absolute dominion over the animal kingdom, why would you be surprised that he treats animals with indifference or cruelty?
He would not even understand why another culture would question his world view, let alone be willing to agree that he might be wrong.
Humans are very malleable when young, and inflexible when older and when values are set. This has nothing (in my view) to do with nature, but everything to do with nurture, even if in the eyes of my society it is a perverted form of nurture.
Turn it on its head : I was brought up to believe that male and female are equal (not the same, but equal.) If I moved to a different culture, what would they have to do to convince me to change my views and treat women as little more than chattels?
Last edited 3 years ago by Fred Atkinstalk
Charles Stanhope
3 years ago
Between August 1944 & June 1945, four US Servicemen were hanged at Shepton Mallet Gaol, solely for Rape.
Perhaps it’s time to look to the past for inspiration?
Last edited 3 years ago by Charles Stanhope
Chuck Burns
3 years ago
I like Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Her article states lots of statistics which may be accurate to a degree. One point not mentioned at all in the article is the common thread of all the Middle Eastern and African guests in Sweden which is Islam. Remove the common thread along with the Leftists who are OK with the rapes as long as they are performed by their guests and you go far in taking away a violent threat to the women and children of Sweden.
Lydia R
3 years ago
What happened in Cologne in 2016 was a wake up call as to how much Western liberals are prepared to ignore the elephant in the room.
Terry M
3 years ago
One need look no further than how women dress in Muslim countries to see how they regard women – they are burka’d to reduce the tempting of local rapists. They fully expect rape, and act to deter it.
You can’t say rape without ape.
The whole principle of covering up a woman to the point of concealing her very identity is not really about protecting women at all, though. It’s about absolving men of their responsibility, to control themselves, to behave in a civilized manner, and to treat women like fellow human beings. It encourages men to view their own sexuality as something beyond their control, and to see women as being responsible for controlling it. So what you end up with are repressed, sex-obsessed men constantly looking for an excuse, eg., an exposed ankle, or a headscarf slipped back to reveal a bit of hair.
It’s just that most muslims(not all) are fake humble claiming to be a good, loving, peaceful, ‘respecting women with very clean hearts and will never rape’ to the world. They’re humans just like everybody else, every race commit crimes, Christians and Jews sinned a lot, the fact that the media shows them all as holy and perfect what a shithole. Yes Ofc there are very good amount of muslims a good role model is Khabib Nurmagomedov. But i would say they’re only like 30%.
Don’t mistake me for being white here i’m an asian from Mizoram(Myanmar neighbouring state) and I’ve always set my eyes on the dark realities. “No one is hated more than he who speaks the truth”
If i had to let my daughter live in a country with given ethnicities. I will only trust and let her live in a right-wing white countries, particular asian countries or maybe some hispanic communities.
Given all these rapes and crimes committed by the Africans and Muslim migrants of what counts to 47% of rape by them and the rest are born Swedish. It only happened right after the migrants law was passed in 2015 and i’ve been seeing this even more so from Twitter daily and it only gets worse and i came google searching for it. Ofc the Swedish will hate and can be racist towards them. I can share their burdens if i was on their shoes. And then recently a month ago books of Quran was burnt in streets, I don’t believe they will burn for nothing. Their hate will not come out of nowhere.
It went viral in twitter and then there as what we were all taught – a loving and peaceful religion. Lot of muslims rage on twitter saying, “cut their heads off!” “Kill everyone who blasphemous the name of Allah!” so and so. Yes a very loving n peaceful religion indeed as they self-proclaimed to be, their true colors reveals even at under slightest oppression.
Many Bibles are burnt, churches burnt, pastors imprisoned for simply preaching and many christians beheaded in the middle east always by the islamic terrorists over the decades yet still no war or signs of murderous intents are known to raged by the christians. And don’t insert history here, histories are histories this is the present this is live.
Over decades christians are tortured numerous uncountable times and still we haven’t heard of them say things like “kill in the name of Jesus” “kill everyone who blasphemous Jesus name” or “chop of all their heads those who burnt the Bible”
Same persecutions and massacre goes to christians here in Asia, especially China and it’s not even a burning of the Bible, burning of Quran is a small thing compared to these.
These hypocritical Muslims won’t accept their true nature, instead they’ll go on to claimed themselves as what i’ve said already and the media shows them like that. It’s just that the majority of muslims are terroristic and violent in nature. It’s in their DNA
Good Reason
3 years ago
One of the best points that AHA makes is that a government is failing its responsibilities by making certain data “disappear.” When actual facts become too “dangerous” to consider, how can national policy be rational? Or even beneficial? On my wish list would be new legislation banning the “disappearance” of statistics by government officials.
I’d also like to ban the corruption of statistics. For example, crimes committed by transwomen are now lumped into female crime rates. This is producing a false picture of how much crime is actually committed by biological females. Sex must be preserved as a category (even if gender is added), so that women know the truth about themselves and about men.
Reality is becoming so contested that only uncorrupted and accessible data provides even the chance of a way forward for our societies.
Yes, the reporting of the rape of woman and, with grim regularity, children, as performed by women, when these crimes are actually committed by men merely claiming to be women is appalling.
The Canadians are well ahead of the UK in this though. Recently a rape victim was criticised by the judge in the rape trial for referring to her rapist as he, because the rapist was identifying as a woman that day. He actually refused her her victim compensation as a punishment for this heinous misdemeanour.
Last edited 3 years ago by Niobe Hunter
mike otter
3 years ago
In a business the owners are liable for the systems they create and therefore any harms that arise from their systemic operation. So responsible owners will point out to staff, clients and suppliers that “we don’t have a procedure for pretending we didn’t see that” – often with regard to safety or compliance breaches. Government and other public bodies seem to think such diligence is beneath them. This explains why people you’d think would be ideologically opposed to cultural or other organised rape gangs look the other way. I include Merkel, Cameron, May et al in this group. If our current form of government is to endure this will need to change or voters will find someone to change it for them. Probably an agressive popular nationalist.
“European liberals never ask uncomfortable questions about immigration.”
American progressives don’t ask ANY questions! A couple of thousand poorly documented people crossing our souther border with ease every day? What could possibly go wrong?
It’s ideologically-driven insanity.
The U.S. is copying every play of the German government. My guess is that McKinley is double selling its “expertise” doled at by ex grad students, such as Chelsea Clinton and Pete Butigieg.
True story, documented in a German paper, of McKinley advice to the Ursulav/d Leyen-led defense department, whose great accomplishment was to bring in pregnancy uniforms for women and trans women: That their advice to the defense department would improve if they spent more money on consultants! Comedy gold! Expensive, but comedy gold!
And for her exorbitant costs to taxpayers, Ms. v/d Leyen was failed upwards to the United Nations.
Martin Price
3 years ago
Thank you for a well presented piece that needs to be heard and discussed.
regnad.kcin.fst
3 years ago
Either the truth will come out, or there will be a vigilante approach. In the UK, there are the Pakistani grooming gangs which have molested apparently thousands of young women. Some of these criminal perverts will be taken out and have their knees readjusted.
Although it has never, as far as I can recall, been publicly acknowledged, I am convinced that the powers that be are absolutely terrified that the mob might wake up and exact revenge. We are a very law-abiding population, but it does not take a great deal of imagination to go from the sort of behaviour shown during the miners’ strikes to the group rage needed to form lynch mobs.
Unfortunately to some cultures the fact that we do not riot or exact mob vengeance is not a sign of civilisation, but proof of contemptible weakness.
Alex Delszsen
3 years ago
In more naive times, as the migrants were being welcomed with teddy bears at the train station in Munich, a man could write on Toytown, the expat newspaper site, that, around the corner from the train station, the newly arrived were openly trying to lift wallets and back packs, in broad daylight.
But then, as one man, far away from the crisis, in the U.S., wrote to me in a forum exchange, “he” would “allow 1000 rapes and 300 murders, in exchange for a million who were fleeing bombs and torture.”
I bet he wasn’t volunteering to be one of the victims, though.
David Morley
3 years ago
At the very least, we have to take seriously the possibility that certain divergent norms based on flawed assumptions about women’s sexuality, be they cultural or religious in origin, play a role in these crimes.
Or, perhaps, flawed assumptions about western women, or women who dress “immodestly”.
Most of the victims were children, not under eighteen, but under the age of consent. Many of them were eleven or twelve when the abuse started. The police recorded some of these girls when they or their parents tried to complain about the abuse as ‘child prostitutes’. (They didn’t take any action on this crime, however).
I don’t think that anyone was making flawed assumptions about these immodestly dressed western CHILDREN.
David Brown
3 years ago
That article should be required reading. For everyone, but especially for those charged with making decisions which affect the rest of us. It might not make those decisions any easier, but at least it would make them informed.
It is also beautifully written, by someone who understands that the word “data” is plural.
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Acquired citizenship can be made conditional on personal conduct. Commit a criminal offence = lose your citizenship.
Kate Melton
3 years ago
I think rape is a big deal in these places, however if reported it would seem the victim rather than the perpetrator is punished.
A Spetzari
3 years ago
If they turned my house into a castle, stole my land and and wove a tapestry boasting about it – I could ruddy well get behind that.
However that’s silly as there is not a predominant “Norman” society having a pernicious effect on liberal values at the moment. That I can tell.
Simon Newman
3 years ago
It might be more meaningful to look at the incidence of reported sexual violence by a stranger, since this is less likely to be affected by differing cultural norms. The fear of attack by a stranger also contributes to the climate of fear on the streets much more than domestic sexual assault.
Walter
3 years ago
The first, and perhaps most obvious, lies in condemning entire groups, with whole categories of persons deemed “guilty” based on the criminal behaviour of a few. Oh, I don’t know. Just look at the treatment of ALL Trump voters based on the actions of a tiny number at the US Capitol on Jan. 6.
Isn’t what good for the goose also good for the gander?
Jacques Rossat
3 years ago
Great and sensible reporting.Thanks.
Terence Riordan
3 years ago
I suspect that the cultural issue is an investigative are. When you look at the gang grooming cultures in the UK such as the Rotherham problem and read some of the statement then you see recurring the attitude that Western Girls and Women are seen to be available and of less worth than the women of the perpetrators culture who are dominated and constrained socially within the patriarchal culture and dominance of the immigrant cultures. It may also be worth examining the location prevalence because the immigrant cultural high density living zones may tend to amplify the attitudes the young men are subjected to.
I agree completely that identity attitudes of tarring with the same brush are disgraceful; but equally being unwilling to look at facts is a way to reinforce problems.
Alex Camm
3 years ago
Although the low number of prosecutions compared to allegations is mentioned in this article it should be noted that it is a very low percentage ie less than 3%. I assume it will be similar in Sweden. This means that the statistics are missing Approx 90% of the assaults that actually take place, from the data. This leaves enormous room for error either way.
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Thanks for a well written article which, if considered thoughtfully, can only help with understanding the situation and how to address it effectively.
Perhaps you would like to go and talk to these chaps. I’m sure it will make a big difference. How is your Somali?
Last edited 3 years ago by Fraser Bailey
J B
3 years ago
Would the over-representation of convictions for those born in the Middle East and North Africa (16.4%) be a little higher if we deduct women/children/the elderly from the population of 565,902? A very interesting article.
carolıne gracey
3 years ago
The same is happening all over Europe.Women and kids are not safe anywhere
Rob Jones
3 years ago
“though I have found no persuasive evidence to substantiate either of these hypotheses.”, one would like to read “substantiate or repudiate these hypotheses”. Just sayin’.
The Nordic Model of prostitution was implemented in Sweden in 1999 so boys born in the country in 1999 or later have been born into a culture that openly and legally attempts to deter the sexual objectification of females and hold males responsible for being sexually demanding in anyway of females. It’s possible therefore that Swedish males are just less likely than males from any other countries to rape.
Jennifer Britton
3 years ago
Who doesn’t want a just society? Without immigrants, would the societies in question be more just? I am rather flummoxed by some of the replies to the essay. Some respondents seem to think the idea of a “just society” is a lot of political correctness .
The law is the law. People who break the law should be subject to the penalties outlined within the law.
Statistics about crime and the administration of law should be made public. It seems to me that if the justice system is fair and impartial then we don’t need to keep stats on immigrants vs. native born, black vs. white, etc. The fact that people clamor for such statistical breakdowns suggests that people perceive there is inherent unfairness by class, race, country or origin, gender, etc., in the administration of justice. People have a right to know about issues in the administration of justice, no matter where that information leads.
However, people also be counseled as to how to interpret the data. Interpretation is key to understanding. And too few have the necessary background to understand statistical information.
But to hide important statistical information is just plain wrong.
Racial justice is peoples of European descent determining their future in their own homelands.
Jennifer Britton
3 years ago
Who doesn’t want a just society? Without immigrants, would the societies in question be more just? I am rather flummoxed by some of the replies to the essay. Some respondents seem to think the idea of a “just society” is a lot of political correctness .
The law is the law. People who break the law should be subject to the penalties outlined within the law.
Statistics about crime and the administration of law should be made public. It seems to me that if the justice system is fair and impartial then we don’t need to keep stats on immigrants vs. native born, black vs. white, etc. The fact that people clamor for such statistical breakdowns suggests that people perceive there is inherent unfairness by class, race, country or origin, gender, etc., in the administration of justice. People have a right to know about issues in the administration of justice, no matter where that information leads.
However, people also be counseled as to how to interpret the data. Interpretation is key to understanding. And too few have the necessary background to understand statistical information.
But to hide important statistical information is just plain wrong.
Ann Ceely
3 years ago
Statistics are far too often produced without confounding variables being considered.
It is true that in the late 60s of mini-skirt Britain, even a Judge in Court spoke of a rape accuser as “asking for it!”
When an area of housing is filled with misogenist immigrant young males recently arrived from certain countries, they will often egg each other on …
Last edited 3 years ago by Ann Ceely
Dan Martin
3 years ago
Priests who abuse boys are predominantly unmarried. If unmarried men are more likely to abuse boys, does that mean a German criminologist would not be able to find a correlation between priests and abuse of boys?
kristienoelle
3 years ago
I’m missing the scope – the author mentions they had trouble finding data, but how am I to know how Sweden’s results compare to other immigration waves, other countries, or the overall crime trajectory? Just a quick check: Sweden’s rape and sexual molestation rate had been steadily climbing long before 2015. Rape rates were around 2,000 total per year in 2003 and climbed to about 6,500 by 2014. Today they are around 8,500. It appears that the original trajectory was not significantly altered by the influx of refugees.An increase between 2015 and 2020 should have already been expected.
But they changed the definition of rape, which accounted for the initial rise.
kristienoelle
3 years ago
I’m missing the scope – the author mentions they had trouble finding data, but how am I to know how Sweden’s results compare to other immigration waves, other countries, or the overall crime trajectory? Just a quick check: Sweden’s rape and sexual molestation rate had been steadily climbing long before 2015. Rape rates were around 2,000 total per year in 2003 and climbed to about 6,500 by 2014. Today they are around 8,500. It appears that the original trajectory was not significantly altered by the influx of refugees.An increase between 2015 and 2020 should have already been expected.
Sandro Cirillo
1 year ago
Once again, we focus solely on the ethnicity of the rapists, but not on the one of the victims as we will find out that many of these women were also foreign born. And what was their relationship with the men who assaulted them? In every culture sexual assaults are committed by partners /ex partners, often of the same ethnic groups. Let’s not forget that Swedish laws categorizes various types of behaviours as “sexual assault” thus pushing up the stats. Let’s not forget that parity of sexes in Sweden is an example worldwide. Women are independent and not afraid to take any initiative, including reporting a sexual assault crime compared to other countries. None of these aspects were considered in the article.
Sandro Cirillo
1 year ago
Once again, we focus solely on the ethnicity of the rapists, but not on the one of the victims as we will find out that many of these women were also foreign born. And what was their relationship with the men who assaulted them? In every culture sexual assaults are committed by partners /ex partners, often of the same ethnic groups. Let’s not forget that Swedish laws categorizes various types of behaviours as “sexual assault” thus pushing up the stats. Let’s not forget that parity of sexes in Sweden is an example worldwide. Women are independent and not afraid to take any initiative, including reporting a sexual assault crime compared to other countries. None of these aspects were considered in the article.
Arild Brock
3 years ago
Rape and sexual assault is partly an individual phenomenon, partly a «cultural». I take it no culture would be permissive towards rape and sexual assault (almost by definition), but cultures may differ as to what rules and patterns of behaviour apply to the contact between the two sexes. Rape and sexual assaults are everywhere in numbers extremely small compared to the vast majority of people behaving normally. Still the same, culture is relevant to rape and sexual assault because variations in rules and patterns of behaviour may increase or diminish the (tiny) fraction of a population inclined to commit this kind of crime. When two or more cultures are present in the same territory, you may also have «interference» effects.
The individual responsibility is best left to the state for protection through legislation and prosecution. However the cultural factor should also be looked into and dealt with. In a country where more than one culture is present, all cultures should be called upon to take responsibility for the cultural factor. Obviously, possible interference effects can only be dealt with by cultures in contact.
Now, the crude follow up on the above principles would be (for example) telling foreigners arriving at the airport that «we don’t rape here» and, by the way: women and men are considered to have equal rights and both sexes are allowed to pursue love and sexual happiness. (Something like this has actually been discussed in a scandinavian country.) As one can see, the crude approach is not very clever. The tiny fraction of arriving persons who would be inclined to commit a crime, I guess would rather be “encouraged” than hampered by authorities having to tell arrivers that «we don’t rape here».
Something similar would probably be the effect if school teachers were to tell boys that «rape is a crime». Taking «cultural responsibility» as talked about here, is a deep one which could only be taken by people with a deep understanding of the culture in question (and a solid standing). Not easy to say how – if at all possible- but as a first step we should recognise that, yes, there is a cultural responsibility.
The ‘culture’ in question has very oppressive attitudes towards women, which do actually include legalised rape – what else would you call a teenager being married unwillingly to her much older cousin, and forced to consummate the marriage?
women are obliged to have intercourse with their husbands, whether or not they wish to. They are obliged to bear children, even when multiple pregnancies have caused them physical damage.
so I’m not sure I would agree that rape and assault are particularly rare in these cultures.
The ‘culture’ in question has very oppressive attitudes towards women, which do actually include legalised rape – what else would you call a teenager being married unwillingly to her much older cousin, and forced to consummate the marriage?
women are obliged to have intercourse with their husbands, whether or not they wish to. They are obliged to bear children, even when multiple pregnancies have caused them physical damage.
so I’m not sure I would agree that rape and assault are particularly rare in these cultures.
Last edited 3 years ago by Niobe Hunter
Arild Brock
3 years ago
Rape and sexual assault is partly an individual phenomenon, partly a «cultural». I take it no culture would be permissive towards rape and sexual assault (almost by definition), but cultures may differ as to what rules and patterns of behaviour apply to the contact between the two sexes. Rape and sexual assaults are everywhere in numbers extremely small compared to the vast majority of people behaving normally. Still the same, culture is relevant to rape and sexual assault because variations in rules and patterns of behaviour may increase or diminish the (tiny) fraction of a population inclined to commit this kind of crime. When two or more cultures are present in the same territory, you may also have «interference» effects.
The individual responsibility is best left to the state for protection through legislation and prosecution. However the cultural factor should also be looked into and dealt with. In a country where more than one culture is present, all cultures should be called upon to take responsibility for the cultural factor. Obviously, possible interference effects can only be dealt with by cultures in contact.
Now, the crude follow up on the above principles would be (for example) telling foreigners arriving at the airport that «we don’t rape here» and, by the way: women and men are considered to have equal rights and both sexes are allowed to pursue love and sexual happiness. (Something like this has actually been discussed in a scandinavian country.) As one can see, the crude approach is not very clever. The tiny fraction of arriving persons who would be inclined to commit a crime, I guess would rather be “encouraged” than hampered by authorities having to tell arrivers that «we don’t rape here».
Something similar would probably be the effect if school teachers were to tell boys that «rape is a crime». Taking «cultural responsibility» as talked about here, is a deep one which could only be taken by people with a deep understanding of the culture in question (and a solid standing). Not easy to say how – if at all possible- but as a first step we should recognise that, yes, there is a cultural responsibility.
Penelope Lane
3 years ago
The issue: sexual violence against women.
Doesn’t that tell us straightaway that the core problem is male misogyny conjoined with unconstrained male violence?
Secondary issues, therefore, are ethnicity/culture, race, religion and class.
Doesn’t that, in turn, tell us that when rape cases are ascribed primarily to one of these secondary factors, or at least thoroughly mixed up and confused with them—that when this occurs, we are looking yet again at a load of men in positions of power in complete denial of the overwhelming social problems their unexamined sexual attitudes are causing?
By all means then refine the enquiry: does it get worse if they’re all Muslim? All from deprived underclasses? All foreign? Only a small minority of any/each of these? That’s useful extra information.
But let’s not ever lose sight of the core issue: men’s violent misogyny.
The male sex is right now facing an unprecedented evolutionary challenge: to face up to itself and drop the crap.
Kevin Ryan
3 years ago
It’s a very interesting conversation, just not one that should be had here.
Hirsi Ali should know better than to trust Unherd for rational discussion. It’s a forum for the rabid right to spout bigotry, nothing else. I know she has a book to sell, but even so.
I’ll contact her directly and advise to stay away. As long as the rag keeps pulling in gullible liberals to write for it, Unherd can keep hiding its nasty clickbait behind the fake ‘alternative’ fig-leaf.
I’m surprised Giles Fraser has stuck around so long. He must need the money.
wpc
3 years ago
The author compares the percentage of foreign rapists to the percentage of foreigners in the general population of Sweden.
This is not the relevant control population.
Women do not commit rapes, and old men do so relatively rarely.
The appropriate comparison is the percentage of foreign born males in the range say 18 to 40 compared to the percentage of foreign born rapists in the same age range.
Young immigrant men may well be a larger fraction of the total population of young men than immigrants are in the general population.
Unless this is allowed for it is hard to conclude that they are more likely to be rapists than young men born in Sweden.
I am sure the women who are now scared to walk the streets of Sweden alone at night will be reassured by your disingenuous post.
John Lamble
3 years ago
First the stats and then the waffle. How very socially conscious! And not a word from the victims of course. Not a whisper.
David Davis
3 years ago
So, Using Ali’s figures above you are about five times more likely to be raped by someone who is not Middle Eastern or North African than by someone who is. It may be also worth noting that the current “Rape Crisis” of the title is largely due to the very liberal way in which rape is defined by law in Sweden. When this law was brought in, figures rose by 75%. My thoughts below for those interested in a response:
In Response to “Sweden’s Migrant Rape Crisis” by Ayaan Hirsi Ali
It would be hard to find a greater critic of Islam nor a greater champion of of Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s than Sam Harris and yet it is a prominent argument of his that may be of interest to the author in relation to her article “Sweden’s Migrant Rape Crisis”. He argues that yes, genetic differences may well exist between people of different races but, while this fact may be of significance to some peripheral group of scientists or anthropologists, its proliferation amongst the general public is not something that will, in general, benefit society. On more than one occasion he has wondered aloud: “Why would anyone want to study that?”
In this regard, the fact that Islamic immigrants are more likely to rape women is no different to the fact that, for example, a particular allele of the monoamine oxidase gene (MAO-A) that is linked to violent behaviour is more prevalent amongst black men. It may well be true but, just as in the case of MAO-A, the fact as presented belies the complexity of the issues around it and its proliferation is only likely to increase the level of prejudice in society. As Harris would say “Why would anyone want to study that?”
It could be argued that this fact may be useful to law enforcement in its narrowing down of lists of suspects and yes, just like the peripheral group of scientists studying racial differences, this small group of individuals will, with or without this article, make themselves aware of this, readily available, data. Whether this is a good thing or not is debatable in that it may make them more likely to overlook the approximately 80% of rapists in Sweden who are not from the Middle-East or North Africa. A stronger argument may be to say that the eyes of the law should be blind to race and religion and should treat all instances of rape equally.
There are approximately a half a million muslims in Sweden. Ali notes that in the 15 years between 2000 and 2015, about 500 muslim people (and yes, I am explicitly equating Muslim with Middle-East/North African whereas Ali does so only implicitly) were convicted of rape or attempted rape. That’s 0.1% of that population, or one person in a thousand, in 15 years. It may be worth noting that the current “Rape Crisis” of the title is largely due to the very liberal way in which rape is defined by law in Sweden. When this law was brought in, figures rose by 75% making Sweden look horrific by international standards. If you are are a female in Sweden and you are afraid of being raped, rather than being concerned by the supposed muslim led “Migrant Rape Crisis”, perhaps you would do well to remember that, using Ali’s figures, you are five times more likely to be raped by a non muslim than by a muslim.
Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
3 years ago
I do think that it could be the case that rape is more likely to be reported against people seen to be outsiders in some way. I remember reading a rather good expose of some of the colleges in the US and their internal handling of rape allegations. One of the interesting elements was that a significant portion of these were against black students, who did not by any stretch make up the majority of the male students. It seemed extremely unlikely that that group would have such different social norms that they would rape that much more often. It seemed that it was the complaints that were different for some reason.
I can easily imagine similar dynamics in other settings.
I don’t recall the article or any comment here claiming that ALL immigrants are rapists.
Nick Nahlous
3 years ago
Predictably, the author makes the following unsubstantiated statement as though it is a statement of fact: “An over-representation of this magnitude cannot simply be attributed to socio-economic disadvantage, alienation or youthful aggression. At the very least, we have to take seriously the possibility that certain divergent norms based on flawed assumptions about women’s sexuality, be they cultural or religious in origin, play a role in these crimes.” The West destroyed Libya, in association with the terrorists it sponsored, and attempted to do the same in Syria. Both Libya and Syria were open wounds from which all types of violent and feral men travelled into Europe via the “refugee” train. Yet the author (by suggesting these rapists are “religious” rather than “irreligious”) appears to continue the same Western attack upon Islam which has destroyed millions of lives in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc, is association with its Gulf State proxies and their Salafi proxies. The bottom line is this crisis was created by NATO, USA and their Wahhabi and Zionist partners. The type of men entering into Europe appear to be the same type of men the USA, NATO (which includes Turkey), Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc, are paying and/or supporting to be mercenaries in Syria and Iraq. The author appears to have neglected the political realities in continuing a religious crusade which appears to have brought her some fame and livelihood.
How many German and Japanese lives were destroyed during WWII? How many Muslim lives have been destroyed by other Muslims? Yet in neither case did the defeated go forth and engage in mass, and certainly neither would have expected that behavior to be rationalized by random commenters. Please, continue blaming the victims. Obviously, Swedish women deserve this.
Right. Because the ME was nothing but peace and harmony before those awful, horrible Westerners showed up. You’re the one referring to “n a z i s and japs,” just like you’re the one who holds Muslims to a substantially lower bar of expectations. And you skipped right past the reality of how no one kills more Muslims than other Muslims.
Granted much of what you say is correct, particularly in relation to Syria.
However just because you become a displaced person (as we used to call it) does not entitle one to rape and sodomise members of the host community who (stupidly) gave you shelter.
No doubt the sight of a buxom, blonde, Swedish bombshell is just too much for many a feral wretch from the Orontes Valley or some such pace, but that is no excuse.
Perhaps the Swedes should try Bromide in the tea?
Ah yes 100% fault of the West. So awful that the refugees and migrants decided to move to – the West.
No part played by Assad, Gaddafi, Russia, Iran, mustard gas, barrel bombs etc.
There’s been a lot of mistakes on all sides – some of them even deliberate one might say – but to blame only the West for these calamities and atrocities is missing a significant part of the picture.
Such are the burdens of victory. The West won. It defeated most of what we now call the Third World, and its own errant spinoffs (Naziism, fascism, Communism). The ruling or leading classes of the US and NATO (that is, pretty much, ‘the West’, is still doing it. New wars with Iran, Russia, and China are actively being cooked up. When people succeed in making themselves the cops of the world for fun and profit, they’re responsible for what results.
Blame the victim. These “feral” men are victims obviously but answer me this why do these hard done by men go after the females and not the male of their oppressor? Could it be because they are cowards and prefer to rape a woman than fight a man.
I’m tempted to break my rule of “No down voting without explination”, as I’m struggling to find words that would get through to anyone as blinkered as they must be to say something so pointless.
Yes on one hand you can find beauty in anything – such as the way the light catches, and sparkles off someones intestines as spill out of their body when they are evisorated – but on the other hand, anyone who claims that evisorating people is beautiful is clearly in need of pychiatric help – and locking up.
I assumed the same, but frankly I sometimes have trouble telling the difference between Titania mcgrath and polly toynbee, so sarcasm is a tricky game to play in a world gone mad…
Sarcasm doesn’t work on the internet unless it’s as obvious and blunt as farting directly in someone’s face. That’s why people use the ‘close sarcasm’ tag ‘/sarc’.
I am a defender of Matt and have tried to upgrade him by one – although the system is not registering it for some reason – but I am sure (95% – is that enough?) he is joking.
I’ve just uprated him and the system has doubled it! Similarly I have upticked some comments, and the system has added 2 or 3 to the numbers of upticks. This happens regularly when I come on UnHerd.
I think their computer system is wonky to say the least.
I never get why you have to be “sensitive” about these issues. It seems to me if you went to someones house and they let you, out of their generosity stay with them and you committed a crime then you should not be surprised if the least you got was thrown out of that house permanently. I believe this is frankly understood the world over.
This does not mean that anyone of the same nationality/colour/gender or whatever as you should be under suspicion but it should mean that you are punished and if that punishment means you are in danger then to be honest you should not have abused your hosts hospitality.
Send a clear message that any laws broken apart from at the very lowest level will result in deportation.
I don’t know about Sweden but there was a Rochdale groomer spotted the other day who served 2 of his 6 years sentence and hasn’t been deported yet. What message does that send?
The message it sends is that some groups (Muslims) are higher up on the list of protected classes than young white women.
Correct. In the victim hierarchy, where white farmers are at the bottom, white women score lower than Muslim rapists, so the left’s prejudices instruct it to side with the rapists.
Especially white working class women, because not only do they somehow possess “white privilege”, but if you’re a typical upper middle class member of either the Mandarin class or the commentariat, those who, respectively make these decisions and write about them (or choose not to), they’re just not “people like us, dahling”.
The Left is now not only high status, but unbearably snobbish, with it.
Muslims voters follow their political mullah’s direction in voting, whereas young school girls do not have a vote. This is how short-term political logic works. It has very little to do with moral logic or rational logic! In this sense, the political Left is a cynical opportunistic class devoid of any moral or intellectual responsibilities.
Want some wild statistics, and good at finding needles in haystacks? Find the statistics of USA rape by race, and for one which is virtually entirely one way find White men raping Black women, and Black men raping White women, it is like 97% to 3% But as Prison populations are disproportionate to race, so is Rape in USA. This writer could have an endless subject to write on if she wished to pursue this in USA, or South Africa.
Big difference. USA has a majority white population and SA has a majority black population – 90% in fact. That rather changes things, doesn’t it?
For starters there are by percentage hardly any white men in South Africa which is 90% black. So yes, rape is mainly perpetrated by black men – and mainly by far on black women – and some white women.
It doesn’t change anything in the US was the point, it’s far more common for black men to be raping white women than for white men to be raping black women.
Are the victims in Sweden young, white women? Where did you find the statistics on the victims?
Well, we know they’re women, whether or young or not, doesn’t much matter. It’s not less bad to rape a middle aged or old woman than it is to rape a younger one. The vast majority of Swedish women are white but again, it’s not less bad to rape a non white woman.
That’s a weird comment when we have a perma-Tory government. Do Labour run the justice system as an agreement on the side? Explain.
I’m not sure ‘Tory’ would be in any way a useful term to describe people like Major, May, Cameron and Johnson.
I don’t understand. Do you mean they’re all secret socialists?
Take a look at their backgrounds…the Blair mob were all ex-Trotskyite social engineers turned venal capitalist snobs. The Cameron administration aped the same social values too. And Johnson and Carrie are more women than Cheri and Tony. God help us.
Why on Earth not? Why do you get to define the term? They are members of the Conservative Party, which has never been a rigidly ideological party.
In the case of grooming gangs in Rochdale, Rotherham, etc, Labour control the gateways to the justice system. The PCCs, the Councils that employ the social workers and youth workers who could help the victims, the teachers. Add to that the Common Purpose training that almost all senior police officers seem to have received and you have your answer.
Take note that teachers who make clear that they don’t agree with the social justice mantra are barred from teaching. I read an article yesterday making that very clear – might have been in the Spectator.
Just google the following string:
teacher + sacked + uk + views
One of the articles that will come up from the bbc is about a young male teacher who addressed a group of pupils by saying, ‘Well done girls,’ when one of them was a girl who identifies as a boy. Sacked.
Look at the General Teaching Council for Scotland website. The whole thing requires a commitment to something they describe as Social Justice, as a professional standard. The whole bl00dy website is raving on about diversity and social justice – really hard left stuff in my opinion, and if you don’t subscribe to this, you can’t work.
How was that EVER allowed to come about in the United Kingdom?
“… [A] girl who identifies as a boy.”
Who is statistically quite likely, if not mutilated first, to be a happy lesbian in ten years’ time.
Quite. Trouble is these days amongst the young it seems to be quite de rigueur.
Scotland is a land of extremists, always was, always will be.
Thomas Sowell figured this out decades ago. The more resource poor your environment is, the more extreme the ideologies of those people.
Wow! Diversity and social justice = hard left. That’s one warped life-view.
Diversity is the denial of existence to white native peoples. Is that why you like it? Self-hatred?
You’ll appreciate this Tom
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/07/the-bradford-head-teacher-who-got-it-right-on-islam-and-education/
Also Starmer was in charge of the CPS at the time and decided against prosecutions. I have also heard that one G Brown was also involved in the decision not to seek prosecutions. Allegedly.
The same Starmer at the DPP who said – along with a bunch of cross party MPs – like the awful Sarah Wollaston – that “all women must be believed when making rape complaints”
Of course, it only applies to middle class women, in this disgusting hypocritical society.
This tale of woe begins right here. Spare a thought for poor Ray – murdered by woke over 30 years ago
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/07/the-bradford-head-teacher-who-got-it-right-on-islam-and-education/
The Government may be Tory, all of our public institutions / civil service are run by people predominantly from the Left.
Which is precisely why all our public institutions are hopelessly ineffective and morally and intellectually corrupt.
But our government is hopelessly ineffective and morally and intellectually corrupt but they’re right wing Tories.
The Tories are corrupted by big business. The socialists are corrupted by white-hatred, hatred of the masculine, the normal and healthy.
Just so you know, he makes this type of supposedly clever, but actually idiotic, comment on every subject. He is one of a handful of commentators on here who endlessly make the same extreme, cynical and nihilistic points, while usually entirely failing to engage with any specific points the author in question actually makes.
Ah yes, thanks Fraser, I didn’t realise that Labour get their kicks out of the rape of white girls. That just explains everything….
It’s a shame as these sort of comments have begin to dominate the comments pages of Unherd, which is a free thinking site challenging sacred cows, not supposedly a home for extreme Right dogma just as inflexible and unthinking as the ‘woke’ positions they criticise.
Apart from anything else, it is just lazy and boring!
I suspect this is hyperbole. Labor doesn’t really get their kicks out of the rape of white girls. Rather they choose to downplay the rapes because they view the plight of marginalized POC as a worse problem. They are nevertheless WRONG and should be voted out.
Yes, they choose immigrant POC over Swedish women. And apparently, that’s okay with Swedish women. Otherwise, shouldn’t there be some loud outrage?
Perhaps said groomer was born in the UK?
It is reported that he is a Pakistani-national.
Then he wouldn’t be eligible for deportation. Born in Pakistan. Better luck next time
Not true: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/outrage-over-rochdale-grooming-gang-20329794
But the Left has not been in power for over a decade. Our own Priti Patel, would undoubtedly have them all shot if she had her way
The Left don’t need to be in power. They simply need to control the institutions of power.
Much easier that way, and far less hassle. it’s called power without responsibility and is the Left’s favoured MO.
Absolutely. Look at the website for the General Council for Teaching in Scotland which controls the professional registration of teachers and the standards they must adhere to o be allowed to work.
It will astonish you. It did me.
“Got shot of” is perhaps more accurate.
The left has been, effectively, in power for at least 50 years. The results are all around you.
Bring it on Preti!
it might be, and I’m going out on a limb here. That there is a link between Muslims and a prevalence to rape white women and children within that socio/religious group.
Especially when they are a minority in a foreign country, possibly with some justification from a specific interpretation of more nuanced religious teachings.
There are a number of issues caused by this, one is the political implications of bearing down on an ethnic minority. Particularly one which can be well funded and organised and playing out a specific tactic (whether all participants are aware of this or not) and which has a habit of calling out any and all forms of perceived discrimination against them, from anyone.
Another is the social experiment of multiculturalism, how can we legitimately say all cultures are equal if we allow evidence to escape that suggests this hideous social engineering scheme is baloney and that there are serious risks to our cultures by giving equal value to cultures whose traditions and practices are not only abhorrent but also illegal.
Another is the proclivity of adherents to this particular stream of religious philosophy to suicidal activities involving, planes, buses, trains, trucks and vest bombs. That and their willingness to cut off people’s heads in broad daylight in our capital cities.
but that’s only a problem if there is evidence suggesting this is all true. Right?
And one can’t even imagine the fuss should it be white men grooming Pakistani and muslim girls
We used to call that “jungle fever” or “ gone native”.
At the time it was very much frowned upon, and perpetrators were expected to retire to their bungalow with a bottle of scotch and a Webley ‘bulldog’ and “do the decent thing “.
Do you think you may be on the wrong site?
‘to push back against the herd mentality with new and bold thinking, and to provide a platform for otherwise unheard ideas, people and places.’
Did you see her profile pic?
But it’s true though, isn’t it?
They are “sensitive” about these issues because a certain demographic votes for certain party. Tougher immigration makes it harder for that certain party to win…
Not so shocking that many, many people haven’t made it in recent years. And not so shocking that it isn’t true.
Then clearly explain why “he shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it”. The onus is on you if you think he is incorrect. Don’t just whinge.
What is completely ignored here is the legal definition of ‘rape’. It differs in many countries & that will directly affect the whole discussion !
Ms Ali is not making international comparisons though. She’s analysing who commits “rape+” in one country, so the same definition is being used for Swedish-born versus foreign-born rapists.
I’d be interested to know of any country in the world and any definition of rape in which whites commit more of it than other ethnicities.
It is shocking isn’t it?
Doesn’t make it wrong.
Is it any more acceptable to smear all left-wingers as getting a, “weird kick,” out of thinking of girls being raped, than it is to smear all Islamic men as rapists?
The article is not “smearing” all islamic male immigrants. It is however highlighting a fact, that islamic male immigrants have almost three times the propensity to commit rape as the indigenous male population. And that is a valid and necessary analysis. More important now than ever, because the serried ranks of racial grievance mongers are latching on to differences in convictions between the races as “proof” of institutional racism. It is no such thing, it reflects a real difference in criminal activity.
Why do you assume that they’re Islamic?
Comment deleted
No too many up votes on that comment dear
Or on your comment either, sonny
here is the thing: they are corrupted.
I’m not racist or anything. it’s cultural rather than racial.
women seem like loot that needs to be picked up by them. I have read some news about their culture and tradition and I was shocker after what I have read.(you might wanna research bacha bazi) They gang up and bruise civilians and harass women. this forces women to take precaution and to wear more PROPERLY. This is literally assimilating the culture and forcing you to live by their will. Living in Turkey Germany has a refugee policy, Turkes does not. So you choosed them carefully. everyone who wishes to come, comes to Turkey with ease. The Turkish goverment have been giving citizenship since 2015 to gain votes in the next election. I’m just about to lose my sanity.
The left won’t talk about this because it runs contrary to their narrative that al cultures and all races are equal. Some cultures and some racial groups have some really awful attitudes towards women.
I can’t speak for Mark Preston, but for myself I would say tradition, and education, or lack of it.
and biology. If you think a Swede is the same biologically as an African you have very pronounced glasses on. Just to see a difference google IQ by nation. As all science points to the fact IQ is genetically based, and then tuned by ‘nurture’ you can see there is a difference. Notice how Korean and Chinese and Japanese immigrants have very different outcomes indeed to other migrants is biological propensities, to say other is to be PC but lie to yourself.
Careful Sanford, didn’t a Nobel prize winner have his award rescinded for daring to say that IQ was genetically based?
Yeah, I did the research – IQ is more a product of cultural norms/expectations , opportunity and sheer hard work learning how to read properly,think properly (ie efficiently) learninghow to problem solve etc etc . However one could say the practical outcomes of all those parameters DOES lead to FUNCTIONALLY different IQs -though not genetically based…..
Thank you David. I wonder how we can make a positive difference.
Islam
I’m not convinced that it dos run “contrary to their narrative that al cultures and all races are equal.”
I believe that they accept that cultures differ, but that that does not make them in any way less equal.
I do not know how they square that with their admirable opposition to something which is tragically familiar to the author of the article above: FGM. That is largely practised in Moslem communities from a certain part of North East Africa; it is part of their culture. If their culture is, in every way, equal to that of North Western Europe, how can we, NW Europeans, justify attempting to eliminate that part of it from NE African communities settled in Europe?
Perhaps that is merely typical of the ability of the Left’s more dogmatic elements to believe several contradictory things at the same time, and then, when the contradictions are mentioned, to accuse the rest of us of “false consciousness”.
There is no opposition, “admirable” or otherwise to FGM in the UK, at least so far as legal prosecution is concerned. In spite of being on the law books since 1985, and revised in 2003, there has been only one successful prosecution, in 2019. Meanwhile, as of 2014, an estimated 170,000 women in the UK had undergone the procedure – without charge or conviction. Clearly the resistance in the criminal justice system is such that enforcement is next to impossible, and that is at least in part due to a lack of political will due to “sensitivities.”
Precisely how is that estimate arrived at?
I remember reading at the time of that successful prosecution that neither the father, who was acquitted, nor the mother was from a tribe which practises FGM. Much of the evidence seemed completely irrelevant to the charge, but would have been more applicable to a witchcraft trial, had there still been such an offence on the Statute Book.
A previous, unsuccessful, prosecution was, if I recall correctly, launched against a surgeon who attempted to repair further damage caused by childbirth to a previous victim of FGM.
It might be that there are very few prosecutions because, whatever the estimates are, there is actually very little evidence either that it is happening in this country, or that families in the UK are shipping their daughters back to the old country to have it done there. Certainly the cases to which you and I refer suggest a certain desperation on the part of social services, the police and the CPS.
You can be fervently opposed to something, but if it is either not happening, or happening very rarely, you will be hard-pushed to prosecute it.
“The tribe” by Ben Cobley is an excellent book that explains how the system of diversity works and how the liberal left use it to achieve their goals. It opened my eyes anyway! I’m sure other similar books are available. “The diveristy illusion” by Ed West is another excellent read on the history of multiculturalism/diversity in the UK.
Genetics.
It seems to me that if half a dozen offenders were to be deported amid a blaze of publicity – everybody in the country should know – then, in a way, deportation would become the ultimate deterrent to crime.
We know that prison sentences do not offer any sort of deterrent because life behind bars is this country is probably like living in a palace ‘back home’. The focus must be on deportation.
What do you suppose the response would be if a half-dozen offenders were summarily deported? No one would care why and certainly no one would care about the victims. The exercise would be decried as bigotry, phobia, and racism, there would be marches and probably violence, and govts would be expected to cave. Some likely would cave.
With a litany of apologies and resignations from all those in any way responsible.
In the case of nonces, I imagine most would favour deportation.
No, death. Time for a Referendum on Capital Punishment, it’s the thing that works, first time, every time.
Not the first time deportation is mentioned as a deterrent. Don’t forget most of the migrants have either lost or detroyed their passport and identity papers ; don’t forget also that, in our democracies, deportation to a helluvah lot of countries is legally impossible because these countries either refuse to re-accept their citizens, when their identity is proven, or because these countries “cannot guarantee a fair trial” to the former expats, or the latter risk a death sentance. This doesn’t leave many eligible countries for deportation…
This is an ideal recipe for vigilante groups!
and? We are Anglo-Saxon, the Tens and Hundreds were the source of law throughout history till modern times. If the law does not protect ‘Neighborhood Watch’ is needed.
Unfortunately Neighbourhood Watch have no power to do anything apart from perhaps report. And that puts the responsibility for action right back on those who currently seem too afraid to do anything.
special forces reverse rendition
“Extraordinary rendition, also called irregular rendition or forced rendition, is the government-sponsored abduction and extrajudicial transfer of a person from one country to another with the purpose of circumventing the former country’s laws on interrogation, detention, extradition and/or torture”
Main problem – where do we deport UK citizens to? Pretty sure neither the US or Australia are still open for business.
Downvoted harshly – as this is a key comment actually.
It is forbidden in various international agreements to hand over perpetrators to organisations or governments where the human rights of the individuals cannot be guaranteed. Also there is the principle that people should be tried for crimes in the country where the crime(s) is/are committed.
If the original countries do not agree to take the deportees what then? And it undermines our adherence to various international codes of conduct if we vary the law according to the nationality of the perpetrators. More problematic still if the individuals, as you say, happen to have obtained UK citizenship.
Not saying this cannot or should not be addressed – but as it stands it’s not as simple to say “deport them”.
Reverse Special Rendition by Special Forces onto their beaches of lands. I have lived in several countries, I moved to the USA at 19, If I was a criminal in any Nation I feel they have every right to extradite me. Living in the nation of another is as sacred as marrying into a family, it places huge demands on you to reciprocate the obligations of being taken into their group. If you are in need they will care for you – and that is a great privilege, which violating is very bad and expelling justified for sufficient offense.
Not really the best use of Special Forces – but I can broadly understand your point. I completely agree that citizenship should be imbued with a good degree of responsibility and privilege.
However, on the reverse rendition and forced deportation: what’s to stop any other country doing the reverse by shuttling unwanted migrants off of their own shores? Who will pay to have the RN expanded or the Border Force to maintain constant patrols to stop this?
Once you start forsaking one agreement, you undermine a whole lot of other things.
I completely agree with you over “not really the best use of Special Forces”.
As you may know, a former commander of 39 Brigade is alleged to have described our Special Forces as “dustbin men who think they are brain surgeons”.
Has anything really changed and what are these allegations from Afghanistan or was it
Iraq?
There are clear precedents from both 16th century Spain and 20th century Germany about what happens when the ‘host’ community tire of the antics of unwanted immigrants, however benign they may have been. Unless this problem is robustly confronted now, we may start to replicate what has been going on in Belfast for the past century and more.
Where the convicted hold dual nationality, it IS possible – if the political will is present.
Agreed
I bit of hard cash to the country taking them back would probably make the whole thing go more smoothly. If it’s a country that already receives aid we could make it a condition of any future aid.
Antarctica.
It would say that for once we are a people who show more compassion for the victims – and by extension prospective victims – than we do for the offenders
Should be deported with entire family.Crime would drop if they knew they would all be deported
Another example of women’s safety being sacrificed at the alter of woke.
I’ve read accounts of women within Muslim communities saying that they thought life would be different when they come to the West, only to realise that those liberal societies continued to capitulate to the Muslim men for the sake of being progressive, and resoundly ignored the suffering of the Muslim women.
there is the Islam problem and in the West, there is the trans thing which is in fundamental conflict with feminism. Oddly, the feminists seem more intent on protecting those who would harm them than to call out the harm.
No all feminists. There are many radical feminists who strongly oppose this.
Yes, there are quite a lot of radical feminists who oppose this. Unfortunately, I have nothing else in common with these women, who are usually on the hard left politically, are anti-family, and have a toxic view of men and male sexuality. But sometimes, you just have to make alliances on some issues where you can. The mainstream media and many human rights orgs, such as the ACLU, have already completely drunk the pro-trans koolaid.
To follow up on what Good Reason mention, i can understand why you’d think that, but feminists aren’t a homogeneous group, for example there’s a huge rupture within the feminist movement that’s been happening for a while. Gender Critical (GC or RadFem) feminists have been fighting the aggressive trans activists (not necessarily trans people per se) lobby who have also captured huge swathes of the younger generation of Liberal feminists (LibFems) for some time. Many RadFems have been attacked (both physically and online), taken to court, deplatformed and have lost jobs for speaking out about the very clear conflict of interest between trans activism and women’s rights. We’ve also been shut down over our critique of the largely untested puberty blocking drugs, sterilisation, and surgery that the Trans Lobby are encouraging in children who suffer from gender dysphoria. We’ve been hoping for some time now that the rest of the world will wake up to this danger but we’ve had very few allies willing to stick their neck and out help us out up till now – though i will say, it’s started to feel like somethings changing since Keira Bell – fingers crossed.
What is it, that leads masses of people to sincerely believe that a “beautiful life” instantly awaits them in Western countries, if only they can just get there?
There is no beautiful life anywhere; life is what people make of it and those who do best are those who work the hardest, delay gratification, plan for the future, and don’t expect to be given anything. Always been that way; always will. I feel sorry for these women, but really, people in f’d up societies need to start focusing more on improving those societies, not indulging in escapist fantasy and expecting governments in distant lands to fix their problems for them.
One of the most notorious rapes of this kind in Sweden, which happened a few years ago, involved a disabled woman who was confined to a wheelchair. She went into a migrant housing facility because she needed to use the washroom, and was gang raped by several of the men who were staying there. I remember thinking, somewhat guiltily, when I read about this (because everybody reasonably hates victim-blaming) how she could have been so foolhardy and trusting to have gone alone into a place she knew there were probably no women, was full of unknown young men not of her culture, who did not speak her language, and were probably unsupervised. I myself would not have gone into such a place alone, ever.. I’m far from paranoid, but a houseful of indigent foreign men, none of whom I know? I’d rather pee on the sidewalk. Is this something particular to Sweden, that women have tended to feel so safe for so long they’ve lost all wariness? Think that all men are as polite and gentlemanly as Swedish men? Or do they just feel so guilty for their natural suspicion that they suppress it?
If you can’t go for a pee without being attacked in a building your tax built and pays for, its time to fight or accept being enslaved.
Obviously women SHOULD be able to use the facilities safely, in a public building. But for that matter, no woman should be raped, ever. My point was that too many leftist European women seem to inhabit some kind of equality fairyland in which nothing bad could ever happen to them, even when invading predators are literally circling them like sharks. It’s not reality. I agree with you however about fighting back against this BS.
Raping a woman in a wheelchair? That has got to be one of the most perverse and despicable acts. It speaks volumes about how different the cultures actually are.
Yes, and to make it even more disgusting, apparently the case against all these men was dismissed, because, according to the male judge, the victim – although she said no – did not “fight back” hard enough.
I have heard tales from Swedish friends of women walking their dogs in groups now for safety reasons; not something that would have happened a decade ago. The Swedish decision, and it was a deliberate one, to engineer Sweden as a new multi-ethnic and multicultural state, is having very unpleasant consequences.
“I have heard tales from Swedish friends of women walking their dogs in groups now for safety reasons”
This happens in the Scottish town where I live. I think it’s also been exacerbated by lockdown, as the town centre is quieter, rather at previous night-time levels.
I walk my sister’s dog quite often; thank God I live in what is still a nice, safe community. Although I like to think this dog would not take kindly to anyone bothering me; being a lab retriever she’s not very big but definitely strong and feisty enough to mess someone up if she wanted to, or at least be a reasonable deterrent.
Who could have possibly predicted this? Foreseeable consequences are not accidental.
Its very easy to get culturally righteous here however i personally would speculate at least a significant proportion of these foreign men arrive in the West, watch pornography on the free Western internet, including individual white women being group sexed by groups of black men, and may “normalize” what they see. The same happens to teenagers, who are also very impressionable. I think this is also part of the “cultural” problem. Really, imagine what these men think when they simply log onto Google and can freely watch any manner of pornography. I doubt this is part of their home culture in Africa or the Middle-East.
Well the internet exists in foreign countries, you know. Also, pornography may indeed give western boys some unhealthy attitudes, but I don’t see stories of groups of young white men doing this sort of thing. No one’s going to ban pornography any time soon, so the solution has to be something else, perhaps accepting that some people won’t be a good fit in western societies.
sure. it is obvious these types of men are unsuitable. i posted a main comment elsewhere. this problem comes from the NATO wars against Libya and Syria, I imagine Unherd (which i know little about) might possibly generally support these wars. If so, this is the contradiction. The West is supporting essentially Al Qaeda Wahabbi against pluralistic often secular States such as Iraq, Libya & Syria. PBS only this week allowed an Al Qaeda leader free air time on US TV, where the leader exhorted the USA to support its “revolution” against the “evil” Assad in Syria.
There’s some truth to that – certainly the chaos resulting from such ridiculous wars has provided plenty of migrants, which perhaps is in the economic interest of a select few in the West. And perhaps that’s why the liberal West is so happy to cave to multiculturalism.
But this was going on long before the recent military adventures in the Middle East. In my opinion it is a consequence of Western liberalism itself. A desire to destroy the very values and norms liberalism claims to support appears to be built in. Or perhaps it’s simply that liberalism cannot defend itself with more liberalism.
I think you are on the right track here, but you are omitting some very important elements from the situation. One of the consequences or concomitants of liberalism is capitalism; one might say the capitalism is the economic and social system of liberalism, especially imperial capitalism (for instance, the invasion of the Middle East by the Western liberal powers from very early in the 20th century until now.) Capitalism destroys non-capitalist cultures. People are coming to the West from the Middle East in large numbers because their homelands have been destroyed by foreign powers, especially the United States and its NATO satellites. It should not be surprising that some of them are deracinated and and tend to turn to crime, extremism, and fanaticism. As these same powers are continuing to try to rule the world and turn everything they find into their image, one must expect the problems to also continue and grow more severe.
These cultures were defined by violence, corruption and maltreatment of women long before any western capitalists came along.
Do I think women are inferior to men? No, I do not. Do I think a women’s sole role in the family is to obey the husband and raise the children? No, I do not.
However these are perfectly acceptable viewpoints to a significant proportion of the world’s population.
Culturally righteous or not, it’s good to criticise this in a liberal society.
And you in turn have the right to perform A-grade mental gymnastics trying to justify or excuse those views. But I won’t agree with you I’m afraid.
” I doubt this is part of their home culture in Africa or the Middle-East.”
Funny how they have a word for it, in their own language- tahroush. The traditional practice of going out in a mob to catch and rape any female they can get their hands on.
“Facts are stubborn things.” (John Adams)
You don’t think the internet exists in foreign countries? China may restrict access to it, but I don’t think many other countries do.
This may be so in some cases but in fact most migrants, even from poor backgrounds, have smart phones and are familiar with the Internet, including its sleaze side. Apparently consumption of Internet porn is absolutely massive in many MENA states. Now, it’s not impossible that not so much the porn, as the overall behaviour and ambience in the west gives some of these young men the idea that all women are “available”, but actually I do not think that it is genuinely ignorance and misinterpretation of Western culture that is the problem – especially when the behaviour is worse and more dangerous than simply over-eager chatting up.
Some observers, and even I myself (years ago, sharing a hall of residence with some Muslim African and Arab pg students, who tended to behave in a very annoying way to the local women) notice that the men know that aggressive sexual propositioning, grabbing, harassing, is unpleasant for the women and doesn’t make them friends. But they do it partly out of resentment. The freedom and apparent equality of the women makes them feel that their manhood and its status is being devalued – and they care very much about that. So some react by trying to sexually humiliate the western women. Obviously in certain case this can turn into rape… One article I read discussed the problem with relation to Afghan migrants, who come from one of the most “masculine supremacist” societies even by MENA Islamic standards. The author, himself an Afghan, said sadly that they were not ignorant, and also pointed out that there were many cases in which they had tormented or directly attacked not young women in skimpy clothing, but mums out in parks with children, and even elderly women walking dogs. He diagnosed the problem as a kind of inchoate rage at the sight of ordinary women looking happy as they navigate public space. The rage is apparently so intense that some attackers seem entirely not to care when there are witnesses and no remote chance of getting away with the attacks.
Enlightening. Thanks.
I worked in Syria in the mid-90s and the young men at worksites all had access to porn DVDs and VHS tapes etc.
If Syria was “pluralistic and secular” then, as you appear to believe (it was, to some extent, because Assad Snr persecuted fundamentalists , locked them up en masse and otherwise “disappeared” them, so no problem on that score), it was also a police state with a mind-boggling degree of surveillance and control.
Oh, it’s very much a part of their home cultures.
Any place in the world where one hardly ever sees teenage girls or women out in public, or not out in public without being covered from head to toe, is a place full of male rapists, or ones in the making.
It’s a culture that fosters a particular kind of attitude, that men are not expected to control their sexual urges, so women must be concealed from view. When they’re not, they’re seen as fair game.
Ayan Hirsi Ali is being very measure and circumspect, but we all know the truth. If you follow podcasts like Sanity4Sweden you hear horror stories on a regular basis. And even the propagandist Swedish state media has reported that 50% of young people in Sweden now make detours and plans whenever they leave the house in order to avoid certain areas.
I’ve even heard that bright young Swedes are leaving, or planning to leave and go and live somewhere else because they can no longer see a long term future for themselves in their own homeland. Shocking and tragic.
It’s the planned islamification of Europe.
One thing you would have to control for in this data is the demographics within the minorities. They might well be 5% of the population and 16% of the rapists, but rape is a crime committed mostly by younger men, and refugees are also younger men.
Of course, even so and taking this into account, it still suggests you shouldn’t admit large numbers of refugees.
Are young male migrants more likely to rape than young males who are not migrants? I think we know the answer. It’s nothing to do with age and all to do with values and culture. Swedish men are more likely to not rape women because their culture and values tell them it’s not a nice thing to do.
Swedish born could still mean Muslims and third world immigrants, who have just happened to have been born in Sweden.
Yes I agree, in-depth studies do not go in-depth enough. Which I am finding more noticeable as with increased aggression and daily lives are being changed. I am not one for continual change as it causes disruption which in turn causes some things to be conveniently sneaked under the radar and this noticeable in the UK this year.
There are many faux in-depth studies these days.
Well, that is indeed the question; I am simply observing that the 5% may not resemble the majority. If they are all males between 18 and 35 the relevant comparator is with local males aged 18 to 35, rather than the entire local M/F population from 0 to 100 years old.
I suspect the answer would not change much.
In a similar way, when I was a yoof I was a holiday rep in Austria. We reps were a tiny fraction of the village population, but we were the majority of the drunkenness and philandering, because we outnumbered the local yoof, who were just as ill-behaved but less numerous.
Some religions naturally create sexual frustration. If a woman really needs to be covered from head to toe to stop inflaming passions there is something seriously wrong with those mens view of women.
I was brought up in a predominantly strict christian society where displaying women’s bodies was frowned upon and sex before marriage was a sin… But I never contemplated raping anyone.
Christianity stresses that both sexes are equally responsible for remaining chaste before marriage; it doesn’t excuse men for fornicating as long as it’s with non-Christian women. So you’re right; the pathology in Muslim societies isn’t entirely about sexual repression.
The sensitivties of the poor women & girls who have been raped always seems to be of secondary importance in these debates.
Liberal women, who profess solidarity with their fellow sex, are invariably silent when women are raped by immigrants or Muslim men.
The callous hypocrisy of the woke is quite remarkable and IMO completely delegitimised any progressive project they promote.
Liberal women has been silenced by progressive women. Just look at the trans issue. The same is happening to gays who are accused of being phobic for not wanting relationships with people who are genetically of the opposite sex. It’s hypocritical to be sure. It’s also harmful.
So let me think about this for a moment. Through the Arab spring (encouraged by Western governments) and Germanys Merkel we had an avalanche of, mainly young men, migrants into Europe, further encouraged by the blackmail of Turkeys president. Many of these from countries who are reported to show little respect to women. Testosterone being what it is, was anyone really surprised that the resultant sexual tension ends with attacks on women?
It’s nothing to do with testosterone. I have testosterone but I don’t go about raping and assaulting women – it’s all to do with culture and values.
Quite.
If you tell a boy from a young age that women are inferior and should serve men, funny old thing they might not grow up to be a man with particularly chivalric qualities.
and you tell them that white women have no morals and are therefore even further inferior and less worthy of respect. Add in a dash of conversion by rape/pregnancy and they are just being good Muslims…
Thanks Mark. Such obvious fact keep being “conveniently forgotten”…
Western testosterone levels are falling, about 20% since the 1980s, according to some studies. I’m inclined to believe them given the extraordinary behavioural changes in our current wave of adolescents from their predecessors, for example the quite unprecedented wave of gender ambiguity.
But the figures quoted in the article relate to the years before the migrant crisis. They only go up to 2015.
So there still isn’t any analysis of the outcome of the mass influx from that year onwards.
Those numbers are unobtainable, they are top secret, hidden from the public view to avoid further tensions between the hosts and Arab immigrants. The police just refuse to share it.
Rape is about power…over a perceived weaker individual…it’s not about getting your jollies. That’s just the means by which the power is taken.
I think Ms Ali’s maths are a bit off.
To calculate the relative rate of offending of Swedish-born versus non-Swedish born, you don’t only divide 47.7 by 19.7 to get 2.4. You must further divide 52.3 by 80.3, which is the rate of offending among everyone else, the Swedish-born, which gives you 0.65. That’s their rate of offending.
You then divide her 2.4 by 0.65, which gives you the relative rate of offending of the non-Swedish-born cohort; which is about 3.7. So they are 3.7 times more likely to offend, not 2.4 times.
The 2.4 times comes about because it is the rate at which they offend compared to the general population – which already includes them. The reality is that 20% of the population offends at 3.7 times the rate of the other 80%.
Using the same arithmetic,
are 3.8 times likelier to offend, not 3.3 times.
I cannot remember who put it this way, but one writer compared the male Muslim behaviour towards women in Europe with that of an occupying army towards the females of the defeated population.
Certainly you can helpfully include the UK in any analysis of discrepancies between rape rates by the population de souche and the newcomers.
In the UK there has been no reporting of the range or scale of the problem. Over, 6,000 underage victims spread across over 50 towns and cities.
Based on a Google search of Local Press Court Reports.
Yes, you would expect Labour to engage in a cover-up but the Conservatives have not been any better. In any discussion where someone tells you how much immigrants have benefited Britain, it would be interesting to ask what value they put on this.
I find it amazing that people still make statements like this, believing that the Conservatives should somehow be “better” … the Conservatives are every bit as bad as Labour in supporting immigration and ignoring the negative consequences. They may make occasional bland statements about reducing levels, but never actually do it and clearly have no wish to. They’re both as bad as each other.
Mike
You are right and in fact the scales fell from my eyes regarding the Conservatives long ago, so maybe I expressed myself poorly.
Hi George, It’s easily done, it probably speaks volumes about the state of the media that the Conservatives still have a reputation as a “right wing” anti-immigration party, with no evidence at all to support that. I think we’re on the same page.
We haven’t had a truly Conservative Government since at least April 20th 1968.
Even the redoubtable Lady T was unable to stem the tide of “lack of moral fibre” that had been systematically poisoning the country since at least 1945 if not considerably earlier.
I can’t see how they can benefit Britain.The costs of court cases alone must outweigh whatever they contribute.
It´s worse. The cited report from 2015 is obsolete, it´s just before the avalanche of immigrants from the Middle East and north Africa. The latest statistics from The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Bra.se) shows 9360 reported rapes 2020. This is second to only South Africa according to some statistics. Ethnicity is not reported in Swedish statistics. Corresponding Danish statistics, where etnicity is reported, shows that this category of immigrants stands for some 80-90 % of rapes.
Sweden now has more than 1 reported rape every hour!
If your figures are correct, it means AHA’s article underestimates the problem shockingly.
If this is true. it’s the saddest thing I’ve heard in a long time.
Condemning the whole does not impeded the wokerati from doing just that. White people are blamed en masse for a host of self-inflicted pathologies that exist within certain populations.
That’s a misunderstanding of the theories around institutional or systemic racism.
I think you’d better start taking the medication again.
When do you stop being a victim? At some point, you have to embrace the freedoms that have been won. That also means accepting all that comes with it, from taking advantage of the opportunities past generations did not have to taking responsibility for your choices and their results.
“When do you stop being a victim?” Ah but for many being a victim is great because however bad your life is, it’s never your fault.
I would love a breakdown of the 40.8% too, by religion and also by where their parents and grand parents were born. I am guessing you could find that ultimately the rape crisis is 90-95% muslim/third world immigrant stock related.
Plus, these figures for 2015 onwards are probably a lot worse than pre 2015.
Yes, when you examine the backgrounds of most of the ‘native born Swedes’ who commit rape etc, they invariably come from a certain background. There are plenty of Swedish podcasts etc out there with further information.
I am reminded of the case that Douglas Murray related in “The Strange death of Europe” A german girl was raped by an assylum seeker she then wrote to him prison apologising for the hateful comments he had received
Having abandoned their ‘natural’ voting bloc, the white working-classes, the Left has made strenuous efforts to replace them with another client base.
This time their victims of choice (they always have to be ‘victims’) are immigrants of a particular religion. The obvious issue is that their new favourites are quite strongly opposed to women, homosexuals, and all other religions.
How the Left believes this to be morally acceptable, I have no idea. Perhaps someone could enlighten us?
The Left has no morals. It has instead a victim status scale whereby it sides with you or against you depending on how high you rank.
If you are white working class you are well towards the bottom. Above you are criminals, illegal immigrants, gays, and so on, but transsexuals outrank gays and women now, as do Muslims.
If miners riot against the police, the Left will side with the miners, although they struggled a few years ago when black South African riot police killed rioting black miners. White farmers are probably the lowest of the low to the Left, as hated in this country by Blair as they are in Zimbabwe by those of the Mugabe mindset.
The most esteemed imaginable person to a Leftist would be a mixed-race Palestinian Muslim transsexual criminal, who would outrank everyone and would be a constructive Leftist saint, literally above all reproach.
Except the transexual muslim would be killed by his family or peers. I smell a rat with the “liberal!” ,” marxist!” Name calling….the world is much more complex than left vs right or conservatives vs liberals.
We need to stop finding differences to name call and start finding some common ground or we’ll all kill each other.
I often wonder how such competing views can be held..I tend to think they can’t…. so suspect someone’s not telling the truth…
In how many cases did the rapist and his victim belong to the same community? Rape is no more tolerated in MENA countries than it is in the West. So something liberated these young men to feel that they could commit a crime in Sweden that they would refrain from at home.
Scandinavia and Muslim countries are polar opposites culturally. It’s not implausible that the more open and sexualised society of Sweden encourages young Muslim men to consider Swedish women to be fair game. There may be an element of racial contempt for white women and the way they dress and behave with self-confidence.
European and American feminists insist that women should be allowed to dress as provocatively as they like without risk from men. What is a good argument in the EU and the US is not necessarily accepted by men, perhaps with little education, from countries where women are subjected to strict controls over what they do and wear.
What happened in Cologne seemed to be that large groups of Arab men took advantage of the opportunity in a crowd to use sexual abuse – a powerful symbol – to show their rejection of the culture of their new hosts which gives women equal status.
Another example of this was the rape in Cairo of CBS correspondent Lara Logan while she and her crew covered an Arab Spring demonstration. Shamefully, although CBS couldn’t avoid acknowledging she had been stripped and abused, it tried to hide her rape because it would have upset the US narrative of a brave new world. CBS wouldn’t have done that had Logan been dehumanised by white attackers;
The migrant surge in 2015 was composed mostly of young men. I wrote at the time that one of the big difficulties they would face aside from unemployment would be the lack access to sex and the socialising influence of relationships with the women in the countries where they settled.
Sweden allowed Muslim immigration long before 2015. How many young immigrants have Swedish girlfriends or wives which would be a true test of the compatibility of two different cultures?
The Swedes had to cancel a long standing music festival for young teenagers because they could not prevent migrants attending and molesting the girls.
it didn’t seem to occur to them that they could a) arrest and prosecute the offenders or b) just stop young men who did not have aSwedish passport from attending. Those actions would be discriminatory, I suppose. So instead they cancelled the festival.
Festival? What festival. ‘Do you remember a safe, rather charming music festival, for young girls , Sven?’ No, Erik, don’t think such a festival existed, ever.’
Apparently some public swimming pools in Sweden and other countries stopped letting in migrant males, out of desperation because there were so many complaints about them harassing and in some cases sexually assaulting women and even children. Predictably, they were screamed at for being “racist”.
Apologies if already mentioned but the Swedish rape stats were published annually until about 2008, when the obvious conclusions – the the wonderful and brave Ayaan highlights here – were becoming even more obvious. The reaction of the authorities? More policing? More education? More anything? No, the solution was to stop publishing the stats.
Same in the UK. The British Crime Survey demonstrated that the most prolific racial offenders were ethnic minorities. The solution was to stop compiling it.
To slightly paraphrase Joe Stalin “Eliminate the stats, eliminate the problem”.
Eh? BCS is still happening (though by phone rather than in person this year, for obvious reasons).
The data about the ethnicity of the offenders has been censored for the last 20 years because so many of them are ethnic minorities. White racial crimes against ethnic minorities were virtually unknown, but ethnic minorities committed not only most of the crimes against whites, but also most of those against other ethnic minorities.
All that’s made public now is the respondent’s details. Information about the offender is censored.
Thank you AHA for another excellent article, everything you write is well worth to read.
To those not familiar with Angry Foreigner’s youtube channel yet, i highly recommend him – he’s a young Bosnian living in Sweden, regularly discussing in-depth the crime/rape situation in Sweden and the politician’s / media’s handling of the matter: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8kf0zcrJkz7muZg2C_J-XQ
Wow, that video was made in 2015. Six years ago. And still as fresh and relevant as the day it was made!
Interesting that they only looked at, or only had access to, data up to 2015. In other words, before the ‘migrant crisis’.
I guess one of the most appalling examples of what happens when links are ignored for concern about offending minorities as a group, is what has happened to thousands of white kids across the north of England. Being systematically raped in their thousands for years, by primarily men with a Pakistani-Muslim background, with authorities turning a blind eye because it was politically and socially inconvenient for the liberal class to admit what was happening. Unfortunately it had to be done on an industrial scale for many years for the authorities to even acknowledge it. Absolute disgrace! Certainly don’t tar all with the same brush, or blame the majority of a community for the actions of a small minority, but don’t treat us like idiots either. It is clear to anyone that takes the time to research how inconvenient truths are often buried by the authorities on these matters and it does nothing to improve trust between citizens and the public institutions.
Within the cultures of North African and parts of Asian communities are the issues of Female genital mutilation , Honour based violence , Forced marriage .There is also an issue of Muslim men raping women who are not of Muslim faith who they see as fair game ( Rotherham ) – All these issues are conveniently not discussed due to an extraordinary intolerant dangerous ideology perpetuated by people who want to rob us of cognitive liberty – This will result in a back lash
It’s a peculiar “religion” that tolerates male adherents seeking sexual release with whomever they want (consenting or otherwise), as long as they’re not women or girls of “their” community. Isn’t part of religious faith being expected to have self-control?
What this article doesn’t say is the ethnic identity of the victims, in the UK it’s predominantly white, vulnerable girls…when you can get the ‘authorities’ to admit the truth.
For example, operation ‘Sanctuary’…(don’t laugh) here in Northumberland, opened with a senior copper stating the abuse has been perpetrated by men from all communities..this massage was continuously repeated all through the investigation.
Yet, when it came to prosecutions where all 99.7 % of the perpetrators white local, or white immigrants from America/NZ and Europe?
Nope, nearly all from Pakistan, but all of them professed to be of the ‘religion of peace’
Sorry, I used to be a normal middle of the road kind of bloke, tolerant regarding limited immigration, sexual freedom…as long as you don’t push it in my face…a typical child of the sixties.
however if this current govt doesn’t start standing up to the wokeists who seem to inhabit every strata of our society, my tolerance may ebb, there are other political parties on the perimeter, there day seems to be approaching.
If you bring up a boy in a culture which tells him that females are inherently inferior (‘deficient in intellect’ to quote one particular prophet), that his belief system and deity are superior to those of other beliefs and that he has divinely sanctioned rights over the inferior sex, particularly those of inferior cultures and religions, how do you expect him to behave?
If he is brought up to believe that he has absolute dominion over the animal kingdom, why would you be surprised that he treats animals with indifference or cruelty?
He would not even understand why another culture would question his world view, let alone be willing to agree that he might be wrong.
Humans are very malleable when young, and inflexible when older and when values are set. This has nothing (in my view) to do with nature, but everything to do with nurture, even if in the eyes of my society it is a perverted form of nurture.
Turn it on its head : I was brought up to believe that male and female are equal (not the same, but equal.) If I moved to a different culture, what would they have to do to convince me to change my views and treat women as little more than chattels?
Between August 1944 & June 1945, four US Servicemen were hanged at Shepton Mallet Gaol, solely for Rape.
Perhaps it’s time to look to the past for inspiration?
I like Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Her article states lots of statistics which may be accurate to a degree. One point not mentioned at all in the article is the common thread of all the Middle Eastern and African guests in Sweden which is Islam. Remove the common thread along with the Leftists who are OK with the rapes as long as they are performed by their guests and you go far in taking away a violent threat to the women and children of Sweden.
What happened in Cologne in 2016 was a wake up call as to how much Western liberals are prepared to ignore the elephant in the room.
One need look no further than how women dress in Muslim countries to see how they regard women – they are burka’d to reduce the tempting of local rapists. They fully expect rape, and act to deter it.
You can’t say rape without ape.
The whole principle of covering up a woman to the point of concealing her very identity is not really about protecting women at all, though. It’s about absolving men of their responsibility, to control themselves, to behave in a civilized manner, and to treat women like fellow human beings. It encourages men to view their own sexuality as something beyond their control, and to see women as being responsible for controlling it. So what you end up with are repressed, sex-obsessed men constantly looking for an excuse, eg., an exposed ankle, or a headscarf slipped back to reveal a bit of hair.
It’s just that most muslims(not all) are fake humble claiming to be a good, loving, peaceful, ‘respecting women with very clean hearts and will never rape’ to the world. They’re humans just like everybody else, every race commit crimes, Christians and Jews sinned a lot, the fact that the media shows them all as holy and perfect what a shithole. Yes Ofc there are very good amount of muslims a good role model is Khabib Nurmagomedov. But i would say they’re only like 30%.
Don’t mistake me for being white here i’m an asian from Mizoram(Myanmar neighbouring state) and I’ve always set my eyes on the dark realities. “No one is hated more than he who speaks the truth”
If i had to let my daughter live in a country with given ethnicities. I will only trust and let her live in a right-wing white countries, particular asian countries or maybe some hispanic communities.
Given all these rapes and crimes committed by the Africans and Muslim migrants of what counts to 47% of rape by them and the rest are born Swedish. It only happened right after the migrants law was passed in 2015 and i’ve been seeing this even more so from Twitter daily and it only gets worse and i came google searching for it. Ofc the Swedish will hate and can be racist towards them. I can share their burdens if i was on their shoes. And then recently a month ago books of Quran was burnt in streets, I don’t believe they will burn for nothing. Their hate will not come out of nowhere.
It went viral in twitter and then there as what we were all taught – a loving and peaceful religion. Lot of muslims rage on twitter saying, “cut their heads off!” “Kill everyone who blasphemous the name of Allah!” so and so. Yes a very loving n peaceful religion indeed as they self-proclaimed to be, their true colors reveals even at under slightest oppression.
Many Bibles are burnt, churches burnt, pastors imprisoned for simply preaching and many christians beheaded in the middle east always by the islamic terrorists over the decades yet still no war or signs of murderous intents are known to raged by the christians. And don’t insert history here, histories are histories this is the present this is live.
Over decades christians are tortured numerous uncountable times and still we haven’t heard of them say things like “kill in the name of Jesus” “kill everyone who blasphemous Jesus name” or “chop of all their heads those who burnt the Bible”
Same persecutions and massacre goes to christians here in Asia, especially China and it’s not even a burning of the Bible, burning of Quran is a small thing compared to these.
These hypocritical Muslims won’t accept their true nature, instead they’ll go on to claimed themselves as what i’ve said already and the media shows them like that. It’s just that the majority of muslims are terroristic and violent in nature. It’s in their DNA
One of the best points that AHA makes is that a government is failing its responsibilities by making certain data “disappear.” When actual facts become too “dangerous” to consider, how can national policy be rational? Or even beneficial? On my wish list would be new legislation banning the “disappearance” of statistics by government officials.
I’d also like to ban the corruption of statistics. For example, crimes committed by transwomen are now lumped into female crime rates. This is producing a false picture of how much crime is actually committed by biological females. Sex must be preserved as a category (even if gender is added), so that women know the truth about themselves and about men.
Reality is becoming so contested that only uncorrupted and accessible data provides even the chance of a way forward for our societies.
Yes, the reporting of the rape of woman and, with grim regularity, children, as performed by women, when these crimes are actually committed by men merely claiming to be women is appalling.
The Canadians are well ahead of the UK in this though. Recently a rape victim was criticised by the judge in the rape trial for referring to her rapist as he, because the rapist was identifying as a woman that day. He actually refused her her victim compensation as a punishment for this heinous misdemeanour.
In a business the owners are liable for the systems they create and therefore any harms that arise from their systemic operation. So responsible owners will point out to staff, clients and suppliers that “we don’t have a procedure for pretending we didn’t see that” – often with regard to safety or compliance breaches. Government and other public bodies seem to think such diligence is beneath them. This explains why people you’d think would be ideologically opposed to cultural or other organised rape gangs look the other way. I include Merkel, Cameron, May et al in this group. If our current form of government is to endure this will need to change or voters will find someone to change it for them. Probably an agressive popular nationalist.
The daily stories of insanity and criminality from Sweden are incredible. This guy keeps you up to speed with them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDi6O1a96Ak
“European liberals never ask uncomfortable questions about immigration.”
American progressives don’t ask ANY questions! A couple of thousand poorly documented people crossing our souther border with ease every day? What could possibly go wrong?
It’s ideologically-driven insanity.
Well at least Biden is building the wall again, according to some reports I’m seeing.
The U.S. is copying every play of the German government. My guess is that McKinley is double selling its “expertise” doled at by ex grad students, such as Chelsea Clinton and Pete Butigieg.
True story, documented in a German paper, of McKinley advice to the Ursulav/d Leyen-led defense department, whose great accomplishment was to bring in pregnancy uniforms for women and trans women: That their advice to the defense department would improve if they spent more money on consultants! Comedy gold! Expensive, but comedy gold!
And for her exorbitant costs to taxpayers, Ms. v/d Leyen was failed upwards to the United Nations.
Thank you for a well presented piece that needs to be heard and discussed.
Either the truth will come out, or there will be a vigilante approach. In the UK, there are the Pakistani grooming gangs which have molested apparently thousands of young women. Some of these criminal perverts will be taken out and have their knees readjusted.
Although it has never, as far as I can recall, been publicly acknowledged, I am convinced that the powers that be are absolutely terrified that the mob might wake up and exact revenge. We are a very law-abiding population, but it does not take a great deal of imagination to go from the sort of behaviour shown during the miners’ strikes to the group rage needed to form lynch mobs.
Unfortunately to some cultures the fact that we do not riot or exact mob vengeance is not a sign of civilisation, but proof of contemptible weakness.
In more naive times, as the migrants were being welcomed with teddy bears at the train station in Munich, a man could write on Toytown, the expat newspaper site, that, around the corner from the train station, the newly arrived were openly trying to lift wallets and back packs, in broad daylight.
But then, as one man, far away from the crisis, in the U.S., wrote to me in a forum exchange, “he” would “allow 1000 rapes and 300 murders, in exchange for a million who were fleeing bombs and torture.”
I bet he wasn’t volunteering to be one of the victims, though.
Or, perhaps, flawed assumptions about western women, or women who dress “immodestly”.
Most of the victims were children, not under eighteen, but under the age of consent. Many of them were eleven or twelve when the abuse started. The police recorded some of these girls when they or their parents tried to complain about the abuse as ‘child prostitutes’. (They didn’t take any action on this crime, however).
I don’t think that anyone was making flawed assumptions about these immodestly dressed western CHILDREN.
That article should be required reading. For everyone, but especially for those charged with making decisions which affect the rest of us. It might not make those decisions any easier, but at least it would make them informed.
It is also beautifully written, by someone who understands that the word “data” is plural.
Acquired citizenship can be made conditional on personal conduct. Commit a criminal offence = lose your citizenship.
I think rape is a big deal in these places, however if reported it would seem the victim rather than the perpetrator is punished.
If they turned my house into a castle, stole my land and and wove a tapestry boasting about it – I could ruddy well get behind that.
However that’s silly as there is not a predominant “Norman” society having a pernicious effect on liberal values at the moment. That I can tell.
It might be more meaningful to look at the incidence of reported sexual violence by a stranger, since this is less likely to be affected by differing cultural norms. The fear of attack by a stranger also contributes to the climate of fear on the streets much more than domestic sexual assault.
The first, and perhaps most obvious, lies in condemning entire groups, with whole categories of persons deemed “guilty” based on the criminal behaviour of a few.
Oh, I don’t know. Just look at the treatment of ALL Trump voters based on the actions of a tiny number at the US Capitol on Jan. 6.
Isn’t what good for the goose also good for the gander?
Great and sensible reporting.Thanks.
I suspect that the cultural issue is an investigative are. When you look at the gang grooming cultures in the UK such as the Rotherham problem and read some of the statement then you see recurring the attitude that Western Girls and Women are seen to be available and of less worth than the women of the perpetrators culture who are dominated and constrained socially within the patriarchal culture and dominance of the immigrant cultures. It may also be worth examining the location prevalence because the immigrant cultural high density living zones may tend to amplify the attitudes the young men are subjected to.
I agree completely that identity attitudes of tarring with the same brush are disgraceful; but equally being unwilling to look at facts is a way to reinforce problems.
Although the low number of prosecutions compared to allegations is mentioned in this article it should be noted that it is a very low percentage ie less than 3%. I assume it will be similar in Sweden. This means that the statistics are missing Approx 90% of the assaults that actually take place, from the data. This leaves enormous room for error either way.
Thanks for a well written article which, if considered thoughtfully, can only help with understanding the situation and how to address it effectively.
Perhaps you would like to go and talk to these chaps. I’m sure it will make a big difference. How is your Somali?
Would the over-representation of convictions for those born in the Middle East and North Africa (16.4%) be a little higher if we deduct women/children/the elderly from the population of 565,902? A very interesting article.
The same is happening all over Europe.Women and kids are not safe anywhere
“though I have found no persuasive evidence to substantiate either of these hypotheses.”, one would like to read “substantiate or repudiate these hypotheses”. Just sayin’.
emergency-services.news/three-men-sentenced-after-breaking-into-house-and-raping-two-women
The Nordic Model of prostitution was implemented in Sweden in 1999 so boys born in the country in 1999 or later have been born into a culture that openly and legally attempts to deter the sexual objectification of females and hold males responsible for being sexually demanding in anyway of females. It’s possible therefore that Swedish males are just less likely than males from any other countries to rape.
Who doesn’t want a just society? Without immigrants, would the societies in question be more just? I am rather flummoxed by some of the replies to the essay. Some respondents seem to think the idea of a “just society” is a lot of political correctness .
The law is the law. People who break the law should be subject to the penalties outlined within the law.
Statistics about crime and the administration of law should be made public. It seems to me that if the justice system is fair and impartial then we don’t need to keep stats on immigrants vs. native born, black vs. white, etc. The fact that people clamor for such statistical breakdowns suggests that people perceive there is inherent unfairness by class, race, country or origin, gender, etc., in the administration of justice. People have a right to know about issues in the administration of justice, no matter where that information leads.
However, people also be counseled as to how to interpret the data. Interpretation is key to understanding. And too few have the necessary background to understand statistical information.
But to hide important statistical information is just plain wrong.
Racial justice is peoples of European descent determining their future in their own homelands.
Racial justice is peoples of European descent determining their future in their own homelands.
Who doesn’t want a just society? Without immigrants, would the societies in question be more just? I am rather flummoxed by some of the replies to the essay. Some respondents seem to think the idea of a “just society” is a lot of political correctness .
The law is the law. People who break the law should be subject to the penalties outlined within the law.
Statistics about crime and the administration of law should be made public. It seems to me that if the justice system is fair and impartial then we don’t need to keep stats on immigrants vs. native born, black vs. white, etc. The fact that people clamor for such statistical breakdowns suggests that people perceive there is inherent unfairness by class, race, country or origin, gender, etc., in the administration of justice. People have a right to know about issues in the administration of justice, no matter where that information leads.
However, people also be counseled as to how to interpret the data. Interpretation is key to understanding. And too few have the necessary background to understand statistical information.
But to hide important statistical information is just plain wrong.
Statistics are far too often produced without confounding variables being considered.
It is true that in the late 60s of mini-skirt Britain, even a Judge in Court spoke of a rape accuser as “asking for it!”
When an area of housing is filled with misogenist immigrant young males recently arrived from certain countries, they will often egg each other on …
Priests who abuse boys are predominantly unmarried. If unmarried men are more likely to abuse boys, does that mean a German criminologist would not be able to find a correlation between priests and abuse of boys?
I’m missing the scope – the author mentions they had trouble finding data, but how am I to know how Sweden’s results compare to other immigration waves, other countries, or the overall crime trajectory? Just a quick check: Sweden’s rape and sexual molestation rate had been steadily climbing long before 2015. Rape rates were around 2,000 total per year in 2003 and climbed to about 6,500 by 2014. Today they are around 8,500. It appears that the original trajectory was not significantly altered by the influx of refugees.An increase between 2015 and 2020 should have already been expected.
But they changed the definition of rape, which accounted for the initial rise.
But they changed the definition of rape, which accounted for the initial rise.
I’m missing the scope – the author mentions they had trouble finding data, but how am I to know how Sweden’s results compare to other immigration waves, other countries, or the overall crime trajectory? Just a quick check: Sweden’s rape and sexual molestation rate had been steadily climbing long before 2015. Rape rates were around 2,000 total per year in 2003 and climbed to about 6,500 by 2014. Today they are around 8,500. It appears that the original trajectory was not significantly altered by the influx of refugees.An increase between 2015 and 2020 should have already been expected.
Once again, we focus solely on the ethnicity of the rapists, but not on the one of the victims as we will find out that many of these women were also foreign born. And what was their relationship with the men who assaulted them? In every culture sexual assaults are committed by partners /ex partners, often of the same ethnic groups. Let’s not forget that Swedish laws categorizes various types of behaviours as “sexual assault” thus pushing up the stats. Let’s not forget that parity of sexes in Sweden is an example worldwide. Women are independent and not afraid to take any initiative, including reporting a sexual assault crime compared to other countries. None of these aspects were considered in the article.
Once again, we focus solely on the ethnicity of the rapists, but not on the one of the victims as we will find out that many of these women were also foreign born. And what was their relationship with the men who assaulted them? In every culture sexual assaults are committed by partners /ex partners, often of the same ethnic groups. Let’s not forget that Swedish laws categorizes various types of behaviours as “sexual assault” thus pushing up the stats. Let’s not forget that parity of sexes in Sweden is an example worldwide. Women are independent and not afraid to take any initiative, including reporting a sexual assault crime compared to other countries. None of these aspects were considered in the article.
Rape and sexual assault is partly an individual phenomenon, partly a «cultural». I take it no culture would be permissive towards rape and sexual assault (almost by definition), but cultures may differ as to what rules and patterns of behaviour apply to the contact between the two sexes. Rape and sexual assaults are everywhere in numbers extremely small compared to the vast majority of people behaving normally. Still the same, culture is relevant to rape and sexual assault because variations in rules and patterns of behaviour may increase or diminish the (tiny) fraction of a population inclined to commit this kind of crime. When two or more cultures are present in the same territory, you may also have «interference» effects.
The individual responsibility is best left to the state for protection through legislation and prosecution. However the cultural factor should also be looked into and dealt with. In a country where more than one culture is present, all cultures should be called upon to take responsibility for the cultural factor. Obviously, possible interference effects can only be dealt with by cultures in contact.
Now, the crude follow up on the above principles would be (for example) telling foreigners arriving at the airport that «we don’t rape here» and, by the way: women and men are considered to have equal rights and both sexes are allowed to pursue love and sexual happiness. (Something like this has actually been discussed in a scandinavian country.) As one can see, the crude approach is not very clever. The tiny fraction of arriving persons who would be inclined to commit a crime, I guess would rather be “encouraged” than hampered by authorities having to tell arrivers that «we don’t rape here».
Something similar would probably be the effect if school teachers were to tell boys that «rape is a crime». Taking «cultural responsibility» as talked about here, is a deep one which could only be taken by people with a deep understanding of the culture in question (and a solid standing). Not easy to say how – if at all possible- but as a first step we should recognise that, yes, there is a cultural responsibility.
The ‘culture’ in question has very oppressive attitudes towards women, which do actually include legalised rape – what else would you call a teenager being married unwillingly to her much older cousin, and forced to consummate the marriage?
women are obliged to have intercourse with their husbands, whether or not they wish to. They are obliged to bear children, even when multiple pregnancies have caused them physical damage.
so I’m not sure I would agree that rape and assault are particularly rare in these cultures.
The ‘culture’ in question has very oppressive attitudes towards women, which do actually include legalised rape – what else would you call a teenager being married unwillingly to her much older cousin, and forced to consummate the marriage?
women are obliged to have intercourse with their husbands, whether or not they wish to. They are obliged to bear children, even when multiple pregnancies have caused them physical damage.
so I’m not sure I would agree that rape and assault are particularly rare in these cultures.
Rape and sexual assault is partly an individual phenomenon, partly a «cultural». I take it no culture would be permissive towards rape and sexual assault (almost by definition), but cultures may differ as to what rules and patterns of behaviour apply to the contact between the two sexes. Rape and sexual assaults are everywhere in numbers extremely small compared to the vast majority of people behaving normally. Still the same, culture is relevant to rape and sexual assault because variations in rules and patterns of behaviour may increase or diminish the (tiny) fraction of a population inclined to commit this kind of crime. When two or more cultures are present in the same territory, you may also have «interference» effects.
The individual responsibility is best left to the state for protection through legislation and prosecution. However the cultural factor should also be looked into and dealt with. In a country where more than one culture is present, all cultures should be called upon to take responsibility for the cultural factor. Obviously, possible interference effects can only be dealt with by cultures in contact.
Now, the crude follow up on the above principles would be (for example) telling foreigners arriving at the airport that «we don’t rape here» and, by the way: women and men are considered to have equal rights and both sexes are allowed to pursue love and sexual happiness. (Something like this has actually been discussed in a scandinavian country.) As one can see, the crude approach is not very clever. The tiny fraction of arriving persons who would be inclined to commit a crime, I guess would rather be “encouraged” than hampered by authorities having to tell arrivers that «we don’t rape here».
Something similar would probably be the effect if school teachers were to tell boys that «rape is a crime». Taking «cultural responsibility» as talked about here, is a deep one which could only be taken by people with a deep understanding of the culture in question (and a solid standing). Not easy to say how – if at all possible- but as a first step we should recognise that, yes, there is a cultural responsibility.
The issue: sexual violence against women.
Doesn’t that tell us straightaway that the core problem is male misogyny conjoined with unconstrained male violence?
Secondary issues, therefore, are ethnicity/culture, race, religion and class.
Doesn’t that, in turn, tell us that when rape cases are ascribed primarily to one of these secondary factors, or at least thoroughly mixed up and confused with them—that when this occurs, we are looking yet again at a load of men in positions of power in complete denial of the overwhelming social problems their unexamined sexual attitudes are causing?
By all means then refine the enquiry: does it get worse if they’re all Muslim? All from deprived underclasses? All foreign? Only a small minority of any/each of these? That’s useful extra information.
But let’s not ever lose sight of the core issue: men’s violent misogyny.
The male sex is right now facing an unprecedented evolutionary challenge: to face up to itself and drop the crap.
It’s a very interesting conversation, just not one that should be had here.
Hirsi Ali should know better than to trust Unherd for rational discussion. It’s a forum for the rabid right to spout bigotry, nothing else. I know she has a book to sell, but even so.
I’ll contact her directly and advise to stay away. As long as the rag keeps pulling in gullible liberals to write for it, Unherd can keep hiding its nasty clickbait behind the fake ‘alternative’ fig-leaf.
I’m surprised Giles Fraser has stuck around so long. He must need the money.
The author compares the percentage of foreign rapists to the percentage of foreigners in the general population of Sweden.
This is not the relevant control population.
Women do not commit rapes, and old men do so relatively rarely.
The appropriate comparison is the percentage of foreign born males in the range say 18 to 40 compared to the percentage of foreign born rapists in the same age range.
Young immigrant men may well be a larger fraction of the total population of young men than immigrants are in the general population.
Unless this is allowed for it is hard to conclude that they are more likely to be rapists than young men born in Sweden.
I am sure the women who are now scared to walk the streets of Sweden alone at night will be reassured by your disingenuous post.
First the stats and then the waffle. How very socially conscious! And not a word from the victims of course. Not a whisper.
So, Using Ali’s figures above you are about five times more likely to be raped by someone who is not Middle Eastern or North African than by someone who is. It may be also worth noting that the current “Rape Crisis” of the title is largely due to the very liberal way in which rape is defined by law in Sweden. When this law was brought in, figures rose by 75%. My thoughts below for those interested in a response:
In Response to “Sweden’s Migrant Rape Crisis” by Ayaan Hirsi Ali
It would be hard to find a greater critic of Islam nor a greater champion of of Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s than Sam Harris and yet it is a prominent argument of his that may be of interest to the author in relation to her article “Sweden’s Migrant Rape Crisis”. He argues that yes, genetic differences may well exist between people of different races but, while this fact may be of significance to some peripheral group of scientists or anthropologists, its proliferation amongst the general public is not something that will, in general, benefit society. On more than one occasion he has wondered aloud: “Why would anyone want to study that?”
In this regard, the fact that Islamic immigrants are more likely to rape women is no different to the fact that, for example, a particular allele of the monoamine oxidase gene (MAO-A) that is linked to violent behaviour is more prevalent amongst black men. It may well be true but, just as in the case of MAO-A, the fact as presented belies the complexity of the issues around it and its proliferation is only likely to increase the level of prejudice in society. As Harris would say “Why would anyone want to study that?”
It could be argued that this fact may be useful to law enforcement in its narrowing down of lists of suspects and yes, just like the peripheral group of scientists studying racial differences, this small group of individuals will, with or without this article, make themselves aware of this, readily available, data. Whether this is a good thing or not is debatable in that it may make them more likely to overlook the approximately 80% of rapists in Sweden who are not from the Middle-East or North Africa. A stronger argument may be to say that the eyes of the law should be blind to race and religion and should treat all instances of rape equally.
There are approximately a half a million muslims in Sweden. Ali notes that in the 15 years between 2000 and 2015, about 500 muslim people (and yes, I am explicitly equating Muslim with Middle-East/North African whereas Ali does so only implicitly) were convicted of rape or attempted rape. That’s 0.1% of that population, or one person in a thousand, in 15 years. It may be worth noting that the current “Rape Crisis” of the title is largely due to the very liberal way in which rape is defined by law in Sweden. When this law was brought in, figures rose by 75% making Sweden look horrific by international standards. If you are are a female in Sweden and you are afraid of being raped, rather than being concerned by the supposed muslim led “Migrant Rape Crisis”, perhaps you would do well to remember that, using Ali’s figures, you are five times more likely to be raped by a non muslim than by a muslim.
I do think that it could be the case that rape is more likely to be reported against people seen to be outsiders in some way. I remember reading a rather good expose of some of the colleges in the US and their internal handling of rape allegations. One of the interesting elements was that a significant portion of these were against black students, who did not by any stretch make up the majority of the male students. It seemed extremely unlikely that that group would have such different social norms that they would rape that much more often. It seemed that it was the complaints that were different for some reason.
I can easily imagine similar dynamics in other settings.
Has the writer actually been to Sweden?
I suggest you research her history.
No, it appears not.
Have you never left your “progressive” cave?
What difference does a visit in person make to researching and interpreting statistics?
Oh dear
This forum is hilarious. “Not All Men” goes out the window as soon as the men in question aren’t white.
I don’t recall the article or any comment here claiming that ALL immigrants are rapists.
Predictably, the author makes the following unsubstantiated statement as though it is a statement of fact: “An over-representation of this magnitude cannot simply be attributed to socio-economic disadvantage, alienation or youthful aggression. At the very least, we have to take seriously the possibility that certain divergent norms based on flawed assumptions about women’s sexuality, be they cultural or religious in origin, play a role in these crimes.” The West destroyed Libya, in association with the terrorists it sponsored, and attempted to do the same in Syria. Both Libya and Syria were open wounds from which all types of violent and feral men travelled into Europe via the “refugee” train. Yet the author (by suggesting these rapists are “religious” rather than “irreligious”) appears to continue the same Western attack upon Islam which has destroyed millions of lives in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc, is association with its Gulf State proxies and their Salafi proxies. The bottom line is this crisis was created by NATO, USA and their Wahhabi and Zionist partners. The type of men entering into Europe appear to be the same type of men the USA, NATO (which includes Turkey), Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc, are paying and/or supporting to be mercenaries in Syria and Iraq. The author appears to have neglected the political realities in continuing a religious crusade which appears to have brought her some fame and livelihood.
How many German and Japanese lives were destroyed during WWII? How many Muslim lives have been destroyed by other Muslims? Yet in neither case did the defeated go forth and engage in mass, and certainly neither would have expected that behavior to be rationalized by random commenters. Please, continue blaming the victims. Obviously, Swedish women deserve this.
Right. Because the ME was nothing but peace and harmony before those awful, horrible Westerners showed up. You’re the one referring to “n a z i s and japs,” just like you’re the one who holds Muslims to a substantially lower bar of expectations. And you skipped right past the reality of how no one kills more Muslims than other Muslims.
Granted much of what you say is correct, particularly in relation to Syria.
However just because you become a displaced person (as we used to call it) does not entitle one to rape and sodomise members of the host community who (stupidly) gave you shelter.
No doubt the sight of a buxom, blonde, Swedish bombshell is just too much for many a feral wretch from the Orontes Valley or some such pace, but that is no excuse.
Perhaps the Swedes should try Bromide in the tea?
Ah yes 100% fault of the West. So awful that the refugees and migrants decided to move to – the West.
No part played by Assad, Gaddafi, Russia, Iran, mustard gas, barrel bombs etc.
There’s been a lot of mistakes on all sides – some of them even deliberate one might say – but to blame only the West for these calamities and atrocities is missing a significant part of the picture.
Such are the burdens of victory. The West won. It defeated most of what we now call the Third World, and its own errant spinoffs (Naziism, fascism, Communism). The ruling or leading classes of the US and NATO (that is, pretty much, ‘the West’, is still doing it. New wars with Iran, Russia, and China are actively being cooked up. When people succeed in making themselves the cops of the world for fun and profit, they’re responsible for what results.
Blame the victim. These “feral” men are victims obviously but answer me this why do these hard done by men go after the females and not the male of their oppressor? Could it be because they are cowards and prefer to rape a woman than fight a man.
All cultures are beautiful
I would like to see whether many Yazidi women give a thumbs up to this. Or Afghan women living under Taliban culture.
pass the bong please
“There are many different cultures but only one civilization — the Western one.” Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Where did you get this quote – it seems to be a fake. Source, please.
Its been around for eons, but even though you can find it on Google, the primary source is elusive.
Perhaps we ‘have’ an Ataturk scholar who can assist?
Yeah, just think about the spicy food and ignore the rapeyness.
I’m tempted to break my rule of “No down voting without explination”, as I’m struggling to find words that would get through to anyone as blinkered as they must be to say something so pointless.
Yes on one hand you can find beauty in anything – such as the way the light catches, and sparkles off someones intestines as spill out of their body when they are evisorated – but on the other hand, anyone who claims that evisorating people is beautiful is clearly in need of pychiatric help – and locking up.
I thought he was being sarcastic
I also think he was being sarcastic (hard to tell).
Probably a spasm of “Lockdown Fever”, poor chap.
I assumed the same, but frankly I sometimes have trouble telling the difference between Titania mcgrath and polly toynbee, so sarcasm is a tricky game to play in a world gone mad…
Sarcasm doesn’t work on the internet unless it’s as obvious and blunt as farting directly in someone’s face. That’s why people use the ‘close sarcasm’ tag ‘/sarc’.
Yes either trolling or being sarcastic
eviscerate
I am a defender of Matt and have tried to upgrade him by one – although the system is not registering it for some reason – but I am sure (95% – is that enough?) he is joking.
Joking only really works if what is said is at least slightly amusing. The comment surely failed that test.
It’s certainly been entertaining; look at all the responses to what was a pretty vacuous remark. Trolling prize for the day, I think.
I’ve just uprated him and the system has doubled it! Similarly I have upticked some comments, and the system has added 2 or 3 to the numbers of upticks. This happens regularly when I come on UnHerd.
I think their computer system is wonky to say the least.
I think this is because other votes have been placed whilst you were reading and upvoting.
Perhaps we need an extra button for registering our votes: e.g. down-tick if the remark was serious, up-tick if it was irony.
I am quite sure this was a joke. 🙂
Maybe, or maybe not. We live in strange times.