The Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s interview with Oprah Winfrey has, so far, claimed two scalps. One has been splashed across news websites and newspapers; the other has not.
The first belonged, to Piers Morgan, who was forced to quit Good Morning Britain after six successful if noisy years for daring to express disbelief at a number of the Duchess’s claims. The claiming of the second scalp, however, has attracted far less attention — even though it serves as an equally, if not more, damning parable for our times…
Do facts still matter? On the face of it, that question appears to have a straightforward answer: of course facts matter; fact-checking is a divine skill and the best defence we have against so-called “fake news”. But in today’s troubled climate, you’re increasingly likely to be given an altogether different response: “Facts? Why are you demanding facts. Don’t be racist.”
Just ask Ian Murray, who until this week was the executive director of the Society of Editors, but now finds himself jobless. The Society attempts, in its own words, to “fight for media freedom”. But as Mr Murray (no relation) has discovered, media freedom is just as elastic as almost every other freedom in this freedom-less age.
In this regard, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s interview with Oprah Winfrey was something of a litmus test. In a free society, people would be able to watch it and draw a number different, but acceptable, conclusions. In an unfree society, however, only one permissible opinion would be allowed. If the past days have taught us anything, then surely it is clear that we have failed this test. The second reality has been borne out, and, as a result, Mr Murray has been forced to end his career.
One of the most disturbing accusations levelled by both Harry and Meghan during their interview concerned the toxicity of the British press, in particular the British tabloids. But a claim does not become true simply because a Duke or Duchess says it. Indeed, it is striking that while the comments made by the Sussexes on the Royal Family have been heavily scrutinised in recent days, their accusations against the British press have managed to slide by, accepted as though they were simply fact.
Join the discussion
Join like minded readers that support our journalism by becoming a paid subscriber
To join the discussion in the comments, become a paid subscriber.
Join like minded readers that support our journalism, read unlimited articles and enjoy other subscriber-only benefits.
SubscribeWhat would we do without Douglas Murray – He may be the last man (person) standing.
And Lord Jonathan Sumption.
One begines to wonder for how much longer Douglas will continue standing…
Without Douglas Murray, we’d have to do without this sort of inflamatory guff:
What’s the context that makes it reasonable to attack Meghan for the things for which you praise Kate? Douglas Murray declined to explain.
Does that mean that almost two thirds were from the British press whose toxicity he is trying to deny? Or maybe it was those snarky Canadians? Or the Kiwis?
And Douglas Murray glosses over that fact that the Mail headline started with the offensive quote. They could perfectly well have led with “UKIP leader’s girlfriend slammed for racist outburst”, but decided to echo the racist slur first – you have to get past that bit to learn that the Mail were not endorsing the racism.
But since the Duchess of Cambridge had at one time been called “Waity Katie” by the media for waiting so long for Prince William to propose, Meghan is “clearly” being treated perfectly fairly – or so Douglas Murray affects to believe.
It really is the most transparent bilge – unless, perhaps, an extreme dislike of Meghan and Harry and a fixated agreement with Douglas Murray’s conclusions distract the reader from the glaring holes in his argument.
Avocado and wedding bouquet is all I have to offer…
Quoting out of context is bogus and everyone knows it. I guess being photographed topless wasn’t upsetting to Kate Middleton. I’m betting that Kate would have been criticized had she flown off by private jet to a $500,000 baby shower after pontificating about climate change. Meghan is not immune to criticism regardless of however much she would like to be.
You’re clearly capable of making a better case than Douglas Murray did – which is my point – his was a bit poor, and not particularly honestly made. Uncharitable bile is bad enough, and our tabloids are… full of it. But badly argued bile is somehow more annoying. UnHerd is supposed to do better than that.
I’m not telling everyone to like Harry and Megan. People will make up their own minds.
The meaning of Murray’s article seems to have been perfectly clear to everyone else.
Most people made up their mind when first hearing the ludicrous accusations e.g. She was not allowed out of the palace for four months and her passport, driving licence and keys were taken away from her.
Douglas Murrays main point was the ending of the Editors career at the hands of cowards.
We have, stop boring us with you stupidity!
I have to agree that headlining a story with the “seed will taint” quote is just a cunning, obvious and disingenous way to use someone else’s racism problem as newspaper clickbait. You can test this out yourself very simply by taking any obnoxious racist statement of choice by a historical figure, putting it on an imaginary front page as a headline with the source and story in smaller print below and see if it doesn’t make you feel queasy.
But then that is the tabloid press…I can do without them personally. Also Meghan and Harry!
Thank you Paul for these counter points; its the kind of informed questioning that should characterise Unherd – but often doesn’t in the comments section. I want to be made to think – who needs another echo chamber.
Not one that, for instance, puts Murray and Sumption in the same ball park. One makes you think – and good for him; the other does the same with a truck load of humility and therefore respect added.
MeAgain got treated mildly compared with Camilla & Sarah Ferguson. However given they had no ‘oppressed’ cards to play, no one comes to their defence
Is this just clickbait? Congratulations you’ve succeeded
You attack Murray for what you wanted him to say, not what he was saying.
One of the British examples was the Daily Telegraph, and for an explanation of the context, read what its writer has to say on the subject:
Oprah thinks that I ‘attacked’ Meghan? It’s time for me to speak my truth (telegraph.co.uk)
Seems you were already salivating with hatred of the Mail when you decided NOT to “get past” their headline..
It is particularly frightening when a man doing the job he is paid to do is sacked for doing the job he is paid to do.
And that it is seen as brave and/or foolish to do so
Moral of the story: Never, never, never give in to, or apologise to, the woke mob. Stick to your guns.
Or don’t go so far as an apologist that you lose credibility?
You have already gone far enough to be uncredible,the apologists apologist.
He wasn’t sacked though. Why are you agreeing with the author by saying he was? Why do 68 people agree with you?
Did Meghan always identify as black? Or was it just when it became useful to do so?
This identifies as stuff is a joke. As readers may have noticed, the divine and very white Anya Taylor-Joy was recently described as being of colour by Variety magazine who then backtracked because she identifies as a white Latina. Not the simple is – identifies as.
Having said that, I have been guilty of using a different my identity myself. In the past when travelling on the continent, I always said I was Scottish (which I am) because it was clear that people from small countries – Scotland, Sweden, Holland say – were in general more welcome than British/English, Germans or French, who always have enemies somewhere.
On the other hand, these days I find it simpler to be British in most of the situations I am in in life.
So presumably the correct answer to the question who do you identify as? is who is asking and why? From there you work out what you it is most advantageous to say this time.
If you were born in the US it’s best to apply to college as a Native American. Better chance of getting in and getting money segregated for native Americans.
On the other hand if you said you were Native British, rather than a place at Oxford or Cambridge, you`d be getting a visit from the police for Thoughtcrime, because as we all know nobody is indigenous to Britain, except maybe descendants of African legionaries who came in Roman times.
Possibly claiming to be “native british” is pointless because nobody imagines that the UK has been invaded by another country who take most of the resources, control the government, and oppress the rest of the population – as happened to the “native americans” a couple of centuries ago.
Unless of course you’re thinking of multinationals and billionaires, who arguably have done just that in the UK (and, ironically, in the USA among other places).
And we would like to keep it that way
You forgot those darn Normans.
And the Irish slavers.
I thought of them, but I did say UK. The Norman invasion predates the Acts of Union by a number of centuries.
Is there a statute of limitations on invasions? If it matters that there was no “country” when the Normans invaded, why doesn’t it matter that there was no country when England and assorted Europeans invaded the new world prior to 1776?
No statute of limitations, but a key difference may be that we don’t have ethnic “saxons” living in reservations and suffering discrimination in 21st century Britain.
You surely have people whose ancestry goes back to the Saxons living in squalor. And you mostly definitely have native peoples of countries colonized by the British living in Britain. In fact, you owe all Americans reparations for what you did prior to 1776. They are owed all the same if that’s the game. I see you’ve dropped the claim that it had to be a country invaded. That’s progress.
This is still about George’s attempt to draw an equivalence between special treatment for Native Americans in the USA, and “native” Britons in the UK?
I mean we could have a whole debate about when reparations or quotas or affirmative actions are needed, when they are at least defensible, and when they clearly aren’t. But this probably isn’t it.
My point remains that George’s case is significantly less defensible than the case you highlighted (disapprovingly, I reckoned) in the US. One may or may not be misguided. The other is plain daft.
But feel free to continue to discuss the general principle of affirmative action and reverse discrimination if you like.
We do though. See my answer above.
Yes we do us oop north are discriminated against by white Southerners and all their pet much favored foreigners.
William the Conqueror, great-great-great-grandson of Viking Rollo, invaded the territory of the late Edward the Confessor at Hastings.
The Act of Union 1707 created Great Britain. The United Kingdom was created by the Act of Union 1800, which United Great Britain with Ireland.
So the UK hasn’t experienced an invasion, although Hitler came pretty close.
‘Acts’ of union!
But their descendants are still the ruling class. You could say they are responsible for the British Empire. The Anglo Saxons were just the foot soldiers!
Actually, the Normans were Vikings , as were the Irish Slavers.
Not only the Romans and Normans but what about the Anglo-Saxons and the Vikings?
We must be one of the most invaded places going. Mind you we did remove the welcome mat for a while, and have done so again.
Erm what do you think the Romans and Normans did?
And indeed the particular native Americans who happened to be there when Europeans arrived. The earliest humans in the Americas were there over 30,000 years ago. They were wiped out by later waves of migration. Latter-day native Americans’ territorial claim to America is based on no better grounds than European settlers’, i.e. it’s theirs by right of conquest, nor is it of especial antiquity.
Thank you for pointing that out – and the same is true for Central and South America, where what the “first peoples” did to each other over centuries was exponentially worse than what Europeans did. Or, has it not been taught in all schools that one reason why the Spanish were successful in Mexico was because tribes viciously oppressed by the Aztecs joined the forces against them?
Same here in Australia bud.
We’ve very limited ways of knowing if the genetic changes in population in pre-historical societies were due to conquest, integration or collaboration.
To follow the logic of your argument if anyone successfully conquers anywhere it’s their’s by right. And that the terrorism used, for example, by Irish Republicans in the Troubles was justified as part of the ongoing and regular battle between different people for the right to ownership of the land? Islamist Terrorism must be pretty well justified too, in that context, if it’s all about raw power? Russia has the right to Ukraine and, while they were there, Germany had the right to France in 1944.
So would you agree that Israel has the right to its land even without millennia of Jewish history?
I don’t agree with the idea that successful conquest gives anyone the right to oppress the people who were there before the conquest. That was my point.
Talking of conquests ..
Blacks were not enslaved because they were black but because they were available. Slavery has existed in the world for thousands of years. Whites enslaved other whites in Europe for centuries before the first black was brought to the Western hemisphere. Asians enslaved Europeans. Asians enslaved other Asians. Africans enslaved other Africans, and indeed even today in North Africa, blacks continue to enslave blacks.
Slavery was an ugly, dirty business but people of virtually every race, color, and creed engaged in it on every inhabited continent. And the people they enslaved were also of virtually every race, color, and creed… a million Europeans were enslaved by North Africans between 1500 and 1800. Europeans enslaved other Europeans for centuries before the drying up of that supply led them to turn to Africa as a source of slaves for the Western Hemisphere. Nor were they the only Europeans enslaved. No race, country, or civilization had clean hands.
Thomas Sowell
Love Thomas Sowell!
“a million Europeans were enslaved by North Africans between 1500 and 1800.”
> I’d like to see the sources that substantiates that one million figure.
You can, read the relevant papers, check their sources. It’s a standard method of checking the veracity of historical facts. Basically the 1st thing you are taught to do. It is lazy to shout “that’s not true” if you haven’t bothered to do some work, and check..
Bravo, excellent point, rarely noted!
Perhaps the Roms and Norms were non-white and so they cannot be accused of invasion, Imperialism, pillaging and all of the other nasty stuff that white nations exclusively did? I mean, if Queen Charlotte was black, who’s to say the rest of Europe wasn’t black as well? So those “invasions” of which you speak couldn’t have been invasions after all. If they were carried out by the true non-white progenitors of Britain, they were more likely just “insistent cultural enrichment activities.” Excuse my cynicism.
We are talking about the present day… Are you identifying as a victim of Roman oppression? And what are you suffering from – is it the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, or the public health? 🙂
Who is identifying as a victim of European arrival in what was to become the US? And who are you to question someone else’s victim hood? Why do only some invasions matter and others are conveniently forgotten? As an American, I’d like some reparations, not only for your invasion of our lands but also your military effort to keep them. You can pay using PayPal.
Saxon lives matter?
Bless.
All lives matter. Imagine that. But I do agree with you that any Native American who was displaced through a European arrival should immediately apply for reparations from those Europeans, regardless of which European country.
Help me here. Which native American peoples were the Kralendijk tribe part of?
What am I suffering from? It’s the grammar.
Yeah but what have they ever done for us…?
What are you? The People’s Front of Judea, or the Judean People’s Front?
You have just listed much of what the British took to India, except the “wine” was a brewery in Murree now in Pakistan.
There had been running water and cooling systems 5000 years previously in Mohenjo Daro but it had been forgotten by the time the Brits arrived.
Simplistic tripe, the first Europeans to arrive in N. America didn’t “invade” it, nor was it a “country” in the accepted sense of the word. It was a continent, vast and without boundaries, ungoverned and sparsely inhabited by peoples living in what was essentially the Stone-age, many of them being nomads or hunter-gatherers. The only resource they were aware of interested in was the Buffalo. or other smaller game, and there was no government, just tribal leadership. It’s hardly surprising that in time they were supplanted by more advanced incomers, that’s the nature of human progress.
I thought that was exactly what was happening
Are you feeling oppressed by Priti Patel and Rishi Sunak? Did they replace you or something?
Patel and Sunak were both born in the UK.
Take no notice of the romantic lie that the Native Americans lived in a happy harmony with the environment and their prey. Close examination reveals a massive extinction of American Megafauna which coincides with the arrival of people with what are described as Clovis Points, 13000 years ago. People inevitably require food. It must come from somewhere.
The mass extinction was more likely to have been caused by a massive flood
What! Did they have man made global warming?
Didn’t the Indians herd buffalo and drive them off cliffs, thus killing way more than they could possibly eat? That wouldn’t help the numbers, I’d say.
I think this is a fact, it was even chronicled on the sleeve of U2’s single “One” (their one truly decent song). I hope that doesn’t mean we have to cancel Bono now, that would be dreadful.
Cancel bono? Yes I’ve finally found what I’m looking for. Thanks.
It’s a beautiful day.
Huh same in Australia!!
as happened to the “native americans” a couple of centuries ago.
No, it didn’t. Exploration and some amount of violence has gone on for as long as man has existed, and the Indians were not exempt from it. The romanticized version put forth is wildly at odds with the savagery that tribes often displayed against each other, let alone English or Spanish explorers and people. The Indians have no country to take; they were disparate tribes contained inside a common border, very much like Afghanistan’s warlords.
Exactly. The outmanned and outgunned rarely prevail. Just ask the Confederates.
Just hasn’t happened to us here for 955 years.
America is started happening 429 years ago.
What is your point?
Perhaps if we still had disadvantaged “Saxon” communities in the present-day UK there might be some comparison.
But the Saxons (Germanic tribes) disadvantged (colonised) the British tribes first. Though the Germanic tribes are now referred to as the English by the … English; those Saxons who morphed into the English are still called Saxons (‘Saeson’ to be precise) by the British – those who speak the British tongue, as Shakespeare put it. Where the British tongue is now commonly known as Welsh. So, first the Romans, then the Saxons, then the Danes (Vikings), then the Normans (who were hitherto Danes). The British have been colonised over and over again.
The British seemed ambivalent about the Romans in the end – they kept one of their flags with the red dragon on it.
I was tempted to ask about the celts who had been displaced by the saxons, and muse on whether the Welsh and Scots were due compensation. But that would be silly.
Listen to Sturgeon&SNP demanding more and more money from Westminster..err yesterday!
IOW, only some groups matter.
Some might argue with your definition of “developed”. Yes I do think the USA would be a better place with fewer people and less concrete.
Same as the UK.
I wonder who we could get to volunteer to leave?
Yes, and would the world be in a better place if you were one of the ‘fewer people’? Have you ever found yourself walking on a concrete pavement and feeling guilty about legitimising it?
Just consider how your consumption of oxygen, use of plastic packaging, heating your house, driving your car, taking the bus is making matters worse. I mean, don’t consider it too much.
Just look at how the wheel has been used to industrialise! The North American Indians were far more virtuous, they obviously shunned using the wheel knowing where it would nefariously lead, evidenced by them not using them when the Europeans arrived.
I’m not making any such claim, THopp. Nor do I know exactly what concessions or advantages are available in the US to Native Americans (or in Australia to Aboriginal people, or to the Maori in NZ). But it seems likely that it’s based on compensating to some degree for the effects of invasion and ongoing discrimination since then. But I wasn’t debating the concessions, or whether they are justified.
What I was pointing out is that (Romans, Normans, Vikings and marauding slavers notwithstanding), there has been no comparable recent invasion of the UK that might be used to justify special compensatory measures for “Native Britons” due to how they are oppressed by the invaders and their descendants.
Ethniciodo Rodenydo possibly imagines that the level of immigration we have in the UK nowadays has a similar effect on us that the white settlers had on Native Americans in the USA, or the Normans had on Saxons in England after AD 1066. He would be wrong.
We can’t pick a “year zero” and roll back history and migration to that one perfectly correct allocation of people to land. But there may be a case for compensating the dispossessed from Turkish Cyprus, Crimea, Palestine, etc. It gets harder, amd more debatable the further back you go, though.
No, if the people disturbed by one invasion, who are all long since died, get to claim special benefits then you can’t deny them to those disturbed by other invasions of long since died people. You can’t pick and choose. Why is anyone being “compensated” for things that did not happen to them? But if that’s to be the way of things, then we should not exclude some from compensation for things that did not happen to them either. That simply is not equitable.
Whats stopping people in this woke world fraudulently identifying themselves as a victims of an oppressed group with the largest compensation ?
America wasn’t a country when the Europeans invaded. It wasn’t a country when the “native Americans” arrived even earlier.
It was England doing the invading and resources taking in what was to become America, of course. Along with other assorted Europeans. Shouldn’t you be paying us reparations?
Leaving aside the fact that the UK didn’t come into existence until 1801 Annette, you are presumably referring to the French, the Spanish and the Russians, who all held territory in what is now the USA.
England was indeed a country before 1776 but as I noted it was not the only country to have arrived in what was then known as the new world prior to 1776.
I’ve made the point elsewhere that there was no UK when many of its invaders arrived when Paul tried to use the non existence of the US as a country when the Europeans invaded. He has since dropped that line of reasoning. Likely because it made no sense.
Oh no I didn’t… 🙂
Nope
Have you ever read any history Paul? I suggest you try reading The Norman Conquest by Marc Morris and learn how the English suffered and how the ruling elite was replaced by French speaking Normans. Any uprisings were ruthlessly suppressed – read about the Harrrying of the North.
Where did I claim the Norman conquest of England was all sweetness and light? As I mentioned elsewhere, the conversation was about oppressed groups in the present day, not injustices from previous millennia. (This isn’t theology, where you really do have to mention everything all of the time, to avoid people thinking you’ve left something out to make a point).
It’s telling that Saxon words for animals survive in English as the names for the creatures tended by farmworkers (Cow, Swine, Sheep), and the words derived from Norman French describe what the invaders ate in their castles (Beef, Pork, Mutton).
Who do you consider oppressed groups today. And specifically how are they oppressed?
Maybe it’s a bit like art – you know it when you see it?
Would you say that white people in the UK and the USA, and white males in particular, are as a group oppressed? Clearly individuals may be. But as a whole, or in general?
In what way are non whites oppressed in the UK & US but not in black/brown majority countries ?
Well, there would be the descendants of the people living there tens of thousands of years ago…but, to be perfectly accurate, the only people who can claim to be indigenous to any place are the first African hominids. Wait, since we ALL descend from them, I guess we can ALL claim to be indigenous Africans. Right?
Or, as shown in the Netflix series Bridgerton, the Duke of Hastings and Queen Charlotte herself no less, both non-white and both doyens of Britain in the Regency era, apparently. The fetishism of a majority non-white Britain doesn’t only apply to its future but also, apparently, to its past.
You do know it wasn’t a documentary?
Like the American presidents who say they are Irish when their God knows how many back grandads were the last relative to have actually set foot in the ‘old country’. It seems everyone wants to be someone else these days and everyone seems to want to encourage them too. Must be something wrong with me; though I do confess to wishing I was someone who was marginally richer than I am would be jolly nice. (Unfortunately: I am just a poor boy and my story’s seldom told)
When I was at uni in the 90s (totally ensconced in the world of Marxist-feminist theory and using the word patriarchy 50 times a day) I remember our American Studies lecturer gave a talk on an emerging phenomenon, about no longer being just ‘American’, that melting pot was ‘allowing people to reclaim their heritage’ and so we get African-American, Italian-American etc. At the time I did not dare contradict the glee with which this was celebrated as a push back on evil American hegemony – but my actual thoughts were that this would atomise society and America would find itself in trouble. I hate to say I was right.
Teddy Roosevelt was right:
“There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else. The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.”
Theodore Roosevelt
Address to the Knights of Columbus
New York City- October 12th, 1915
Wow ol Teddy nailed it!
Very well said.
Btw me too was of that religion..now happily de-programmed.
Yes, we seem to have lost the ability to separate ancestry from citizenship.
But you stand as a boxer and fighter by trade..
Do they do Zoom interviews to make sure you look like Geronimo or Pocahontas?
No, you cannot be asked to prove your race. Nor could most of us anyway.
I believe Cherokee works especially well.
Yes it would but there’s no tribal designation required. You can just say Native American. This is how Elizabeth Warren got in trouble, she specified a tribe of which she notably was NOT a member. Of course then it got even worse when she did an ancestry test and came out whiter than milk and inexplicably decided to wave the results around in public.
Everyone born in the US is a native American – it’s what the word ‘native’ means – that you reside in the same country in which you were born.
Yes and you get money for claiming Native America!
Yes there is a very white looking Democrat senator who did just that. It seems too that boasting mental health problems is another way of getting ahead.
Like Americans who called themselves Canadians and had maple leaf flags on their backpacks to prove it, during the Vietnam War.
Fun fact, around 30,000 Americans fled to Canada to avoid the Draft during the Vietnam War. In return, around 30.000 Canadians headed south and joined the US forces specifically to served in Vietnam.
Interesting reversal, though the figure I have is c12,000 Canadians.
Probably not when she had her nose done. Or her hair straightened. Skin bleached. So, most likely not always, only when expedient.
She reads as white, I’d assume she was Spanish or Italian if I didn’t know otherwise. She’s married two white men, her best friends are all white, her aesthetic is entirely white, as is her hair and her speech.
I’d give her claims way more mental space if she registered as a ‘black’ person on anyone’s radar.
She looks Thai.
Sorry – not good looking enough.
She’s Greek, and lovely looking, a total Siren.
Do we know for a fact the she has had all that nose/hair/bleaching done? Because that would be interesting.
Do a forensic photo-search and all will be revealed.
She certainly looks whiter now than she did a few years ago.
Yeah I remember going to Scotland ( from London) to cover a story fir the institute of civil engineers MAG back in 1990 and on the ferry I was treated pretty piss poorly by the Scots working on the boat..I let it hang for a bit then told them I was Australian they completely changed their tune with me..wankas.
No, Meghan hasn’t always identified as black. In an interview for Elle magazine in 2015 (still linked from her Wikipedia page – though maybe not for long), she says among other things: “While my mixed heritage may have created a grey area surrounding my self-identification, keeping me with a foot on both sides of the fence, I have come to embrace that. To say who I am, to share where I’m from, to voice my pride in being a strong, confident mixed-race woman.”
There’s a lot in the article about what it means to her to be mixed race, but that’s clearly all gone out the window now, which strengthens the case for believing that she will say whatever she perceives to be the most expedient at any given moment.
But still me me me..
I was once at a wedding in Germany where I happened to mention to the woman sitting next to me that I am 1/10 Ashkenazi Jewish (I “identify” as British, U.K., whatever, but had recently done something called 23andMe where you send in some of your spit and they sequence your genome for you). From that moment on she went out of her way to bond with me; told me how much she enjoyed Unorthodox (the book, not the Netflix show) and how I simply must read it; started touching my arm a lot… Very strange experience. I felt I was in a false position, but there was something undeniably *relaxing* about the unearned status that my DNA was all of a sudden conferring…
The Markles are so obviously mentally and emotionally damaged they will never be able to think or behave rationally. They’ll never stop seeking out someone to blame for their misery and eventually they’ll blame each other. I doubt that marriage will last ten years.
If Meghan Markle is black,then I’m Chinese,seriously my little sister and eldest daughter are darker than her,that’s from Irish,Scot’s,English,German,French and Native American ancestry.
I have thought about this for at least 20 seconds……
From now on I will self identify as Klingon.
Why not?
While I personally can’t stand Meghan Markle, and don’t believe she has been treated any worse than any other celebrity, I had to chime in on that statement.
Regardless of their skin colour (or any other personal trait) your family are absolutly entitled to claim that they are descended from any of the nationalities (and ethinic groups) you mention – just as you have done in your comment.
Therefore if Meghan wants to identify with her black heritage she is perfectly entitled to! Your denial of that right, based on her not being ‘dark enough’, is racist.
No one is saying she can’t claim to be descended from black people. In reality, of course, she is of mixed race. If it is true that she has had cosmetic surgery etc to make herself look whiter (is this true?) then her actions are at odds with her identification. Not surprising if people feel she identifies in the way which is most useful to her at the time.
Bertie B – yes and no.
I agree that Meghan is entitled to make the claim, but aren`t we also entitled to say the claim is flimsy and/or even wrong, or doubt her sincerity? Free speech and differences of opinion and all that stuff – old-fashioned, I know!
If I am entitled self identify my sex regardless of birth then I can self identify my race regardless of racial origin. What’s the problem
You are being logical. This doesn’t work in the world these days. Indeed, I know of a woman who is currently having a hellish problem with this. 24 years ago, her Black American parents went to the adoption agency and found a healthy dark-skinned girl whom they took home, loved, and raised. She grew up loving them and was and is the apple of their eye. She grew up as a Black middlle class kid in a Black middle class family, and in due course went to university claiming certain benefits due to her Blackness. And all would be fine except that she got interested in genetic testing both to locate blood relatives and susceptibility to certain diseases and the like.
Lo and behold, she tested out to be Spanish-from-Spain + Dominican. There may be some African genes in her, but they do not appear to be particularly recent. Now from my point of view — so what? She’s culturally a Black American. But apparantly the university grant givers feel differently. They are talking about needing to decide whether what she did was a crime.
Really!?!?! Wow! The depth of the irony there is staggering! Blood libels, genetic determinism, anti-identitariainism. Good grief!
It may be wrong – or right. It certainly is not racist. Please don’t devalue the word racist. It needs to be kept to describe real dangerous racism.
I think you are confusing culture and genetics. Culturally, she is in the White camp, and using current White wokeness to promote her name, Genetically, she appears to be 50 per cent White, 50 per cent Black. She identifies with whatever is going to feed her mania for publicity – and the consequent $$$ which the publicity machine generates. Let’s just recognise her for the lying minx she is. You think she recognises & understands Black heritage?,
Therefore if Meghan wants to identify with her black heritage she is perfectly entitled to! Your denial of that right, based on her not being ‘dark enough’, is racist.
Where is this “right” found exactly? Never mind that no one has denied it. People have simply noticed how opportunistic it is to claim racism at every turn, and that people like her seldom have an interest in claiming their white heritage. Tiger Woods is among the rare exceptions to this, refusing to be labeled as a black man.
I would be an idiot to identify as anything listed.Certainly if I chose to wear a kilt or a medieval tunic no on would care but a war bonnet? I would be crucified.
Says BertieB, the arbiter of all things ethnic..
You can’t have English ancestry – English isn’t a thing. So we’re told.
Who told you that? Or are you just playing the English Victim card?
I have English ancestry…
It is indeed frightening how easy nowadays is to ruin the reputation, standing or career of a person by uttering a bunch of unsubstantiated allegations of racism on air. Facts, corroboration, listening to the other side’s view- none of that. You just need to allege that somebody has been racist towards you, the mob takes it up and that is the end of the targeted person.
And mark you- it does not even have to be an outright allegation of racism. You just need to imply and suggest- the mob will do the rest. Someone said something about the colour of Meghan’s baby and suddenly Prince William is asked if he and his family are racists and Prince Charles is the unnamed but widely suspected villain.
It does not matter that there may be a number of different takes on the alleged ‘Archie’s colour’ comment- from ‘With Harry being the palest ginger and Meghan having a nice tan to her I wonder who Archie will look like more?’ to ‘Uncle Harry, will auntie Meg-Meg’s baby look like her or like you?’. All it matters is that a ‘woman of colour’ has felt racially insulted and as we have been told you never question that. The papers stay silent, commentators keep their heads down and hope that the eye of Sauron passes them over and finds somebody else for the monster to devour. These are indeed troubling times and I fear worse is yet to come.
Did Murray have to resign? The fact that he did so due to pressure from blacks and Asians at mostly recent publications makes me suspicious. The fact that they called his remarks ridiculous and so he stepped down seems fishy. Why would someone who truly believes that factual reporting is necessary quietly give up their job because a bunch of ethnic minority new comers working for minor publications makes the opposite claim?
The whole thing is set up. The establishment do not want a free press, they have fought tooth and nail against the fourth estate for decades. The establishment have taken away all our civil liberties, and giggle about it when confronted by the one or two remaining journalists who challenge them, they are erasing our history, what do they care for facts and free speech and reporting. The internet is controlled by the left wing, ordinary people’s views are not to count for anything. This is a Communist revolution presided over by a ‘Conservative’ government.
I must confess, it feels increasingly as if something very like that is indeed unfolding. Murray allows that we are “freedom-less”; he acknowledges that we are only allowed one opinion about a range of matters; he points out that this one opinion where Markle is concerned is in conflict with the facts; and another prominent journalist has confessed, in the Telegraph, that writing against certain dogmas is now too costly in terms of complaint and “regulation”. So what is happening? And if it is a form of communist takeover – the word “revolution” is and always has been a lie – what is the hold that keeps so many MPs silent?
As I have said a few times, MPs work with upticks and downticks. Everything they say is tailored to prevent downticks. So, they can’t actually do anything but go along with the crowd.
Sounds a bit like the post-Disqus comment threads on unHerd.
Food for thought. The revolution has been under way for many years, however, the silent majority woke (excuse me) up about two years ago (my estimation) and the fightback started then. The left is beginning to understand there is resistance and is increasing its efforts. The conservative – small ‘c’ intended – silent majority is working out how to reverse the advances made over the last thirty or so years and, though it will take time, this response will be successful. I suggest this will be the case as history shows it to be so when the leaners go too far, the lifters recover the moral and ethical high ground because of the reality of natural social survival. Plato was wrong and each disciple since has also been wrong. The siren songs of equality and fairness are superficial and are defeated as soon as objections are raised.
I hope this is true. But there have been occasions when the insane have taken over. 20th century history is littered and marked with such disasters: 1917, 1933, 1949 and so on.
Hi Chris in what respect was Plato wrong here? Just looking to learn more, thanks.
I really hope so
I agree Chris, there are hopeful signs. Something like this happened in medicine, around 15 years ago. For a while we got a raft of articles in the BMJ on how their higher rates of various diseases were all due to the nasty racist British doctors.- usually by minor academics of all kinds.We also got lectured by nice young girls in saris about how horrible we were. At first the medical profession was stunned and kept quiet. Gradually, however, they found their voice and pointed out that there could be other reasons for poorer outcomes. At first the attackers simply shouted louder – and I suggest that’s what we are seeing here with the Left’s defence of wokery- but gradually, as we got braver and defended ourselves, they realised they were making total asses of themselves and shut up. It was easier in medicine, as things are easier to prove in a narrow field, but in time, after a lot of collateral damage, I predict that will happen over the broader issues.
People are easily bought.
Even that very modest little man, the ‘sainted’ Clem Attlee saw fit to ‘walk off’ with an Earldom! Then there are Knighthoods for those journalistic titans such as Simon Jenkins (of Childers notoriety) and Max (Hitler)*Hastings of Falkland fame.
No doubt a juicy bauble awaits a compliant Mr Murray when the time comes, but most of us are not fooled.
* As you will note I have mentioned the dreaded ‘H’ word by way on a empirical experiment to see if the ‘new look’ UnHerd Censor will, to lapse into the vernacular, “throw a hissy fit!”
People are easily bought.
Even that very modest little man, the ‘sainted’ Clem Attlee saw fit to ‘walk off’ with an Earldom! Then there are Knighthoods for those journalistic titans such as Simon Jenkins (of Childers notoriety) and Max Hastings of Falkland fame.
No doubt a juicy bauble awaits a compliant Mr Murray when the time comes, but most of us are not fooled.
It was money pressure. The SOE had a fundraising gala dinner or somesuch event and cancellations started coming in.
Thing is, by capitulating so readily they will not win those people back and have forfeited the moral high ground that might win them new supporters. Never apologise to the woke mob! Something Piers, bless him, seems to understand.
I agree that there is an agenda is in play to change our whole way of life and powerful causes such as racism, sexual equality and fairness, healthcare and the whole climate, and ecology spectrum provide great cover for whatever needs to be done to bring down the old institutions (Who may be bulwarks). None of these issues can be argued against and are ostensibly for the good of everyone but the evil is in how they are being used as “Human shields” to force change on a global scale and how democracy is being replaced by a management control which has no scruples. The lack of transparency and accountability is very disturbing.
Why would someone who truly believes that factual reporting is necessary quietly give up their job because a bunch of ethnic minority new comers working for minor publications makes the opposite claim?
Because this type of mob makes up in volume what it lacks in reason and numbers. Because the demand for racist or offensive incidents far surpasses the supply, and so cases have to be manufactured in order to feed the beast. Because these people think nothing of hounding Murray and probably his associates at their homes, in their private time, extending that to their families. It’s a version of terrorism with a bit less violence, though that’s not entirely off the table as a tactic.
Every time I read a piece by Douglas Murray I want to cry. Am I just another victim, cornered by his unforgivable lack of a progressive agenda and utter failure to notice the compassion at the heart of Sussex brand, set up for the purpose of world betterment? Mr Murray, in the unlikely event that you ever read this, please, please, don’t stop. My suicidal tendencies are only kept from fulfilment by what you write for you convince me that there really are people in the world of journalism who are neither congenital morons nor cowards.
I’m white British with a 25% dash of Italian from my great grandparents who came from southern Italy in 1895. THE DUCHESS OF SUSSEX IS IN EVERY WAY PALER SKINNED THAN ME. I never get any racism from anybody, but then, I don’t spend my time whining about my blackness and I also try to avoid narcissistic self publicity.
I think that’s 12.5 per cent Italian unless some more Italians married into the family subsequently.