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The myth of tabloid racism The febrile atmosphere whipped up by the Sussexes is already taking its toll

Breaking news: newspapers aren't racist (Photo by Richard Baker / In Pictures via Getty Images Images)

Breaking news: newspapers aren't racist (Photo by Richard Baker / In Pictures via Getty Images Images)


March 12, 2021   4 mins

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s interview with Oprah Winfrey has, so far, claimed two scalps. One has been splashed across news websites and newspapers; the other has not.

The first belonged, to Piers Morgan, who was forced to quit Good Morning Britain after six successful if noisy years for daring to express disbelief at a number of the Duchess’s claims. The claiming of the second scalp, however, has attracted far less attention — even though it serves as an equally, if not more, damning parable for our times


Do facts still matter? On the face of it, that question appears to have a straightforward answer: of course facts matter; fact-checking is a divine skill and the best defence we have against so-called “fake news”. But in today’s troubled climate, you’re increasingly likely to be given an altogether different response: “Facts? Why are you demanding facts. Don’t be racist.”

Just ask Ian Murray, who until this week was the executive director of the Society of Editors, but now finds himself jobless. The Society attempts, in its own words, to “fight for media freedom”. But as Mr Murray (no relation) has discovered, media freedom is just as elastic as almost every other freedom in this freedom-less age.

In this regard, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s interview with Oprah Winfrey was something of a litmus test. In a free society, people would be able to watch it and draw a number different, but acceptable, conclusions. In an unfree society, however, only one permissible opinion would be allowed. If the past days have taught us anything, then surely it is clear that we have failed this test. The second reality has been borne out, and, as a result, Mr Murray has been forced to end his career.

One of the most disturbing accusations levelled by both Harry and Meghan during their interview concerned the toxicity of the British press, in particular the British tabloids. But a claim does not become true simply because a Duke or Duchess says it. Indeed, it is striking that while the comments made by the Sussexes on the Royal Family have been heavily scrutinised in recent days, their accusations against the British press have managed to slide by, accepted as though they were simply fact.

It didn’t matter that their claims — presented, it should be noted, more as assertions — were particularly egregious: that the reason why Meghan and Harry had come in for criticism from the British press was because Meghan identifies as black, thus implying that the British media is racist.

In the face of such damning charges, it is striking that much of the media has chosen to keep its head down; the Guardian proved a notable exception, predictably endorsing the Sussexes’s worldview. As for the others, I suspect their silence come from a simple and understandable desire not to get in the line of fire.

In the end, the only person brave enough to stand up for Britain’s newspapers turned out to be the since-departed executive director of the Society of Editors. In a statement issued after the Sussexes’s interview, he rightly pointed out that the British press “is not bigoted and will not be swayed from its vital role holding the rich and powerful to account”. It continued: “It is not acceptable for the Duke and Duchess to make such claims without providing any supporting evidence.”

In itself, such a statement should have been unremarkable. But as the fall-out from the past few days has shown, demanding “supporting evidence” can you turn you into a pariah.

In this instance, I suspect that’s probably because when the Sussexes and their supporters talk about racism towards Meghan, genuine examples are never forthcoming. For example, at one point during the interview, Oprah launched into a monologue detailing how Meghan “became the target of unrelenting, pervasive attacks” when she joined the royal family.

To illustrate her point, a selection of allegedly racist headlines from British newspapers appeared on screen. Pretty damning stuff, you might think. Except for the fact that a significant proportion of the headlines were taken completely out of context. More than a third of the articles shown during the interview were from American and Australian publications. And in the case one of the most egregious headlines — “Meghan’s seed will taint our Royal Family” — Oprah failed to mention that the purpose of the news story was actually to expose racist comments made by a model.

Point this out to the Sussexes, though, and no doubt they’ll respond that their treatment has still been particularly unpleasant. But such a claim wrongly assumes that other members of the Royal Family have managed to avoid intrusive or negative coverage from the media; or that, when they have, it hasn’t amounted to much. When Meghan, in her Oprah interview, acknowledged that the Duchess of Cambridge had been branded “Waity Katie” by the media for waiting so long for Prince William to propose to her, it was telling that she went on to conclude, with Oprah’s encouragement, that Kate’s unpleasant experience didn’t compare to her own.

As it happens, I find it rather telling that Meghan chose this particular example to illustrate media intrusion into Kate’s life. For when it comes to intrusion, is there anything more intrusive than the publication of photos, in the French press, of the Duchess of Cambridge topless? Unpleasant as it may be, it’s the simple truth that the world’s press is intensely interested in every aspect of the Royal family, and that they are interested in it because their readers — the public — want them to be.

That’s why Ian Murray was entirely right, as the head of a body representing editors, to push back against the unsubstantiated claims made by the Sussexes; to say that if high-profile figures such as Harry and Meghan are going to accuse the press of singling them out, let alone being racist in the process, then they should show proof.

In a reasonable age that would be a reasonable demand. And that was the only mistake Murray made: forgetting that this age is far from reasonable. The Society of Editors was soon targeted by the usual online activists and Murray was forced to resign, announcing that he had to “take the blame” for his initial statement. “While I do not agree the society’s statement was in any way intended to defend racism, I accept it could have been much clearer in its condemnation of bigotry and has clearly caused upset,” he said.

A new statement from the Murray-less board made the necessary confession, acknowledging that there is “a lot of work to be done in the media to improve diversity and inclusion”. The society went on to promise that it “will reflect on the reaction our statement prompted and work towards being part of the solution.”

So another person finds themselves without a job and another institution bends towards the dogmatic orthodoxies of the time. There are ugly winds in the air. And with evidence and facts unable to save us, I fear Mr Murray’s scalp will not be the last.


Douglas Murray is an author and journalist.

DouglasKMurray

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Matt Sylvestre
Matt Sylvestre
3 years ago

What would we do without Douglas Murray – He may be the last man (person) standing.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

And Lord Jonathan Sumption.

Miro Mitov
Miro Mitov
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

One begines to wonder for how much longer Douglas will continue standing…

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

Without Douglas Murray, we’d have to do without this sort of inflamatory guff:

a selection of allegedly racist headlines from British newspapers appeared on screen. Pretty damning stuff, you might think. Except for the fact that a significant proportion of the headlines were taken completely out of context.

What’s the context that makes it reasonable to attack Meghan for the things for which you praise Kate? Douglas Murray declined to explain.

More than a third of the articles shown during the interview were from American and Australian publications.

Does that mean that almost two thirds were from the British press whose toxicity he is trying to deny? Or maybe it was those snarky Canadians? Or the Kiwis?

And in the case one of the most egregious headlines — “Meghan’s seed will taint our Royal Family” — Oprah failed to mention that the purpose of the news story was actually to expose racist comments made by a model.

And Douglas Murray glosses over that fact that the Mail headline started with the offensive quote. They could perfectly well have led with “UKIP leader’s girlfriend slammed for racist outburst”, but decided to echo the racist slur first – you have to get past that bit to learn that the Mail were not endorsing the racism.

But since the Duchess of Cambridge had at one time been called “Waity Katie” by the media for waiting so long for Prince William to propose, Meghan is “clearly” being treated perfectly fairly – or so Douglas Murray affects to believe.
It really is the most transparent bilge – unless, perhaps, an extreme dislike of Meghan and Harry and a fixated agreement with Douglas Murray’s conclusions distract the reader from the glaring holes in his argument.

Last edited 3 years ago by Paul N
Steve Dean
Steve Dean
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Avocado and wedding bouquet is all I have to offer…

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Quoting out of context is bogus and everyone knows it. I guess being photographed topless wasn’t upsetting to Kate Middleton. I’m betting that Kate would have been criticized had she flown off by private jet to a $500,000 baby shower after pontificating about climate change. Meghan is not immune to criticism regardless of however much she would like to be.

Last edited 3 years ago by Annette Kralendijk
Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago

You’re clearly capable of making a better case than Douglas Murray did – which is my point – his was a bit poor, and not particularly honestly made. Uncharitable bile is bad enough, and our tabloids are… full of it. But badly argued bile is somehow more annoying. UnHerd is supposed to do better than that.
I’m not telling everyone to like Harry and Megan. People will make up their own minds.

Last edited 3 years ago by Paul N
Giulia Khawaja
Giulia Khawaja
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

The meaning of Murray’s article seems to have been perfectly clear to everyone else.
Most people made up their mind when first hearing the ludicrous accusations e.g. She was not allowed out of the palace for four months and her passport, driving licence and keys were taken away from her.

Peter Dunn
Peter Dunn
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Douglas Murrays main point was the ending of the Editors career at the hands of cowards.

Lee Jones
Lee Jones
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

We have, stop boring us with you stupidity!

Su Mac
Su Mac
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

I have to agree that headlining a story with the “seed will taint” quote is just a cunning, obvious and disingenous way to use someone else’s racism problem as newspaper clickbait. You can test this out yourself very simply by taking any obnoxious racist statement of choice by a historical figure, putting it on an imaginary front page as a headline with the source and story in smaller print below and see if it doesn’t make you feel queasy.
But then that is the tabloid press…I can do without them personally. Also Meghan and Harry!

Andrew Dorton
Andrew Dorton
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Thank you Paul for these counter points; its the kind of informed questioning that should characterise Unherd – but often doesn’t in the comments section. I want to be made to think – who needs another echo chamber.
Not one that, for instance, puts Murray and Sumption in the same ball park. One makes you think – and good for him; the other does the same with a truck load of humility and therefore respect added.

Marcus Millgate
Marcus Millgate
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

MeAgain got treated mildly compared with Camilla & Sarah Ferguson. However given they had no ‘oppressed’ cards to play, no one comes to their defence

Malcolm dunn
Malcolm dunn
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Is this just clickbait? Congratulations you’ve succeeded

Dan Martin
Dan Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

You attack Murray for what you wanted him to say, not what he was saying.

Colin Elliott
Colin Elliott
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

One of the British examples was the Daily Telegraph, and for an explanation of the context, read what its writer has to say on the subject:
Oprah thinks that I ‘attacked’ Meghan? It’s time for me to speak my truth (telegraph.co.uk)

Peter Dunn
Peter Dunn
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Seems you were already salivating with hatred of the Mail when you decided NOT to “get past” their headline..

Warren Alexander
Warren Alexander
3 years ago

It is particularly frightening when a man doing the job he is paid to do is sacked for doing the job he is paid to do.

Cheryl Jones
Cheryl Jones
3 years ago

And that it is seen as brave and/or foolish to do so

Jonathan Marshall
Jonathan Marshall
3 years ago

Moral of the story: Never, never, never give in to, or apologise to, the woke mob. Stick to your guns.

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago

Or don’t go so far as an apologist that you lose credibility?

David Hartlin
David Hartlin
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

You have already gone far enough to be uncredible,the apologists apologist.

Steve Dean
Steve Dean
3 years ago

He wasn’t sacked though. Why are you agreeing with the author by saying he was? Why do 68 people agree with you?

Last edited 3 years ago by Steve Dean
George Bruce
George Bruce
3 years ago

Did Meghan always identify as black? Or was it just when it became useful to do so?
This identifies as stuff is a joke. As readers may have noticed, the divine and very white Anya Taylor-Joy was recently described as being of colour by Variety magazine who then backtracked because she identifies as a white Latina. Not the simple is – identifies as.
Having said that, I have been guilty of using a different my identity myself. In the past when travelling on the continent, I always said I was Scottish (which I am) because it was clear that people from small countries – Scotland, Sweden, Holland say – were in general more welcome than British/English, Germans or French, who always have enemies somewhere.
On the other hand, these days I find it simpler to be British in most of the situations I am in in life.
So presumably the correct answer to the question who do you identify as? is who is asking and why? From there you work out what you it is most advantageous to say this time.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

If you were born in the US it’s best to apply to college as a Native American. Better chance of getting in and getting money segregated for native Americans.

George Bruce
George Bruce
3 years ago

On the other hand if you said you were Native British, rather than a place at Oxford or Cambridge, you`d be getting a visit from the police for Thoughtcrime, because as we all know nobody is indigenous to Britain, except maybe descendants of African legionaries who came in Roman times.

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

Possibly claiming to be “native british” is pointless because nobody imagines that the UK has been invaded by another country who take most of the resources, control the government, and oppress the rest of the population – as happened to the “native americans” a couple of centuries ago.
Unless of course you’re thinking of multinationals and billionaires, who arguably have done just that in the UK (and, ironically, in the USA among other places).

Miro Mitov
Miro Mitov
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

nobody imagines that the UK has been invaded by another country who take most of the resources, control the government, and oppress the rest of the population

And we would like to keep it that way

Last edited 3 years ago by Miro Mitov
Kirk B
Kirk B
3 years ago
Reply to  Miro Mitov

You forgot those darn Normans.

David J
David J
3 years ago
Reply to  Kirk B

And the Irish slavers.

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  Kirk B

I thought of them, but I did say UK. The Norman invasion predates the Acts of Union by a number of centuries.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Is there a statute of limitations on invasions? If it matters that there was no “country” when the Normans invaded, why doesn’t it matter that there was no country when England and assorted Europeans invaded the new world prior to 1776?

Last edited 3 years ago by Annette Kralendijk
Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago

No statute of limitations, but a key difference may be that we don’t have ethnic “saxons” living in reservations and suffering discrimination in 21st century Britain.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

You surely have people whose ancestry goes back to the Saxons living in squalor. And you mostly definitely have native peoples of countries colonized by the British living in Britain. In fact, you owe all Americans reparations for what you did prior to 1776. They are owed all the same if that’s the game. I see you’ve dropped the claim that it had to be a country invaded. That’s progress.

Last edited 3 years ago by Annette Kralendijk
Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago

This is still about George’s attempt to draw an equivalence between special treatment for Native Americans in the USA, and “native” Britons in the UK?
I mean we could have a whole debate about when reparations or quotas or affirmative actions are needed, when they are at least defensible, and when they clearly aren’t. But this probably isn’t it.
My point remains that George’s case is significantly less defensible than the case you highlighted (disapprovingly, I reckoned) in the US. One may or may not be misguided. The other is plain daft.
But feel free to continue to discuss the general principle of affirmative action and reverse discrimination if you like.

Last edited 3 years ago by Paul N
Giulia Khawaja
Giulia Khawaja
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

We do though. See my answer above.

David Waring
David Waring
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Yes we do us oop north are discriminated against by white Southerners and all their pet much favored foreigners.

Last edited 3 years ago by David Waring
Ann Ceely
Ann Ceely
3 years ago

William the Conqueror, great-great-great-grandson of Viking Rollo, invaded the territory of the late Edward the Confessor at Hastings.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

The Act of Union 1707 created Great Britain. The United Kingdom was created by the Act of Union 1800, which United Great Britain with Ireland.
So the UK hasn’t experienced an invasion, although Hitler came pretty close.

Lee Jones
Lee Jones
2 years ago

‘Acts’ of union!

Giulia Khawaja
Giulia Khawaja
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

But their descendants are still the ruling class. You could say they are responsible for the British Empire. The Anglo Saxons were just the foot soldiers!

Ann Ceely
Ann Ceely
3 years ago
Reply to  Kirk B

Actually, the Normans were Vikings , as were the Irish Slavers.

Johnny Sutherland
Johnny Sutherland
3 years ago
Reply to  Miro Mitov

Not only the Romans and Normans but what about the Anglo-Saxons and the Vikings?

We must be one of the most invaded places going. Mind you we did remove the welcome mat for a while, and have done so again.

Cheryl Jones
Cheryl Jones
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Erm what do you think the Romans and Normans did?

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Reply to  Cheryl Jones

And indeed the particular native Americans who happened to be there when Europeans arrived. The earliest humans in the Americas were there over 30,000 years ago. They were wiped out by later waves of migration. Latter-day native Americans’ territorial claim to America is based on no better grounds than European settlers’, i.e. it’s theirs by right of conquest, nor is it of especial antiquity.

dom2454
dom2454
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

Thank you for pointing that out – and the same is true for Central and South America, where what the “first peoples” did to each other over centuries was exponentially worse than what Europeans did. Or, has it not been taught in all schools that one reason why the Spanish were successful in Mexico was because tribes viciously oppressed by the Aztecs joined the forces against them?

Rob Mort
Rob Mort
3 years ago
Reply to  dom2454

Same here in Australia bud.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

We’ve very limited ways of knowing if the genetic changes in population in pre-historical societies were due to conquest, integration or collaboration.
To follow the logic of your argument if anyone successfully conquers anywhere it’s their’s by right. And that the terrorism used, for example, by Irish Republicans in the Troubles was justified as part of the ongoing and regular battle between different people for the right to ownership of the land? Islamist Terrorism must be pretty well justified too, in that context, if it’s all about raw power? Russia has the right to Ukraine and, while they were there, Germany had the right to France in 1944.

Tom Krehbiel
Tom Krehbiel
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

So would you agree that Israel has the right to its land even without millennia of Jewish history?

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Krehbiel

I don’t agree with the idea that successful conquest gives anyone the right to oppress the people who were there before the conquest. That was my point.

Marcus Millgate
Marcus Millgate
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Talking of conquests ..
Blacks were not enslaved because they were black but because they were available. Slavery has existed in the world for thousands of years. Whites enslaved other whites in Europe for centuries before the first black was brought to the Western hemisphere. Asians enslaved Europeans. Asians enslaved other Asians. Africans enslaved other Africans, and indeed even today in North Africa, blacks continue to enslave blacks.
Slavery was an ugly, dirty business but people of virtually every race, color, and creed engaged in it on every inhabited continent. And the people they enslaved were also of virtually every race, color, and creed… a million Europeans were enslaved by North Africans between 1500 and 1800. Europeans enslaved other Europeans for centuries before the drying up of that supply led them to turn to Africa as a source of slaves for the Western Hemisphere. Nor were they the only Europeans enslaved. No race, country, or civilization had clean hands.
Thomas Sowell

M Harries
M Harries
3 years ago

Love Thomas Sowell!
a million Europeans were enslaved by North Africans between 1500 and 1800.”
> I’d like to see the sources that substantiates that one million figure.

Lee Jones
Lee Jones
2 years ago
Reply to  M Harries

You can, read the relevant papers, check their sources. It’s a standard method of checking the veracity of historical facts. Basically the 1st thing you are taught to do. It is lazy to shout “that’s not true” if you haven’t bothered to do some work, and check..

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

Bravo, excellent point, rarely noted!

Aidan Collingwood
Aidan Collingwood
3 years ago
Reply to  Cheryl Jones

Perhaps the Roms and Norms were non-white and so they cannot be accused of invasion, Imperialism, pillaging and all of the other nasty stuff that white nations exclusively did? I mean, if Queen Charlotte was black, who’s to say the rest of Europe wasn’t black as well? So those “invasions” of which you speak couldn’t have been invasions after all. If they were carried out by the true non-white progenitors of Britain, they were more likely just “insistent cultural enrichment activities.” Excuse my cynicism.

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  Cheryl Jones

We are talking about the present day… Are you identifying as a victim of Roman oppression? And what are you suffering from – is it the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, or the public health? 🙂

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Who is identifying as a victim of European arrival in what was to become the US? And who are you to question someone else’s victim hood? Why do only some invasions matter and others are conveniently forgotten? As an American, I’d like some reparations, not only for your invasion of our lands but also your military effort to keep them. You can pay using PayPal.

Last edited 3 years ago by Annette Kralendijk
Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago

Saxon lives matter?
Bless.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

All lives matter. Imagine that. But I do agree with you that any Native American who was displaced through a European arrival should immediately apply for reparations from those Europeans, regardless of which European country.

Last edited 3 years ago by Annette Kralendijk
Simon Baseley
Simon Baseley
3 years ago

Help me here. Which native American peoples were the Kralendijk tribe part of?

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

What am I suffering from? It’s the grammar.

Rob Mort
Rob Mort
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Yeah but what have they ever done for us…?

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  Rob Mort

What are you? The People’s Front of Judea, or the Judean People’s Front?

Giulia Khawaja
Giulia Khawaja
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

You have just listed much of what the British took to India, except the “wine” was a brewery in Murree now in Pakistan.
There had been running water and cooling systems 5000 years previously in Mohenjo Daro but it had been forgotten by the time the Brits arrived.

Ned Costello
Ned Costello
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Simplistic tripe, the first Europeans to arrive in N. America didn’t “invade” it, nor was it a “country” in the accepted sense of the word. It was a continent, vast and without boundaries, ungoverned and sparsely inhabited by peoples living in what was essentially the Stone-age, many of them being nomads or hunter-gatherers. The only resource they were aware of interested in was the Buffalo. or other smaller game, and there was no government, just tribal leadership. It’s hardly surprising that in time they were supplanted by more advanced incomers, that’s the nature of human progress.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

I thought that was exactly what was happening

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago

Are you feeling oppressed by Priti Patel and Rishi Sunak? Did they replace you or something?

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Patel and Sunak were both born in the UK.

Last edited 3 years ago by Annette Kralendijk
Tom Fox
Tom Fox
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Take no notice of the romantic lie that the Native Americans lived in a happy harmony with the environment and their prey. Close examination reveals a massive extinction of American Megafauna which coincides with the arrival of people with what are described as Clovis Points, 13000 years ago. People inevitably require food. It must come from somewhere.

Daniel Lean
Daniel Lean
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

The mass extinction was more likely to have been caused by a massive flood

Johnny Sutherland
Johnny Sutherland
3 years ago
Reply to  Daniel Lean

What! Did they have man made global warming?

Ver Edge
Ver Edge
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

Didn’t the Indians herd buffalo and drive them off cliffs, thus killing way more than they could possibly eat? That wouldn’t help the numbers, I’d say.
I think this is a fact, it was even chronicled on the sleeve of U2’s single “One” (their one truly decent song). I hope that doesn’t mean we have to cancel Bono now, that would be dreadful.

Last edited 3 years ago by Ver Edge
Rob Mort
Rob Mort
3 years ago
Reply to  Ver Edge

Cancel bono? Yes I’ve finally found what I’m looking for. Thanks.

Thomas Walling
Thomas Walling
3 years ago
Reply to  Rob Mort

It’s a beautiful day.

Rob Mort
Rob Mort
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

Huh same in Australia!!

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

as happened to the “native americans” a couple of centuries ago.
No, it didn’t. Exploration and some amount of violence has gone on for as long as man has existed, and the Indians were not exempt from it. The romanticized version put forth is wildly at odds with the savagery that tribes often displayed against each other, let alone English or Spanish explorers and people. The Indians have no country to take; they were disparate tribes contained inside a common border, very much like Afghanistan’s warlords.

dom2454
dom2454
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

Exactly. The outmanned and outgunned rarely prevail. Just ask the Confederates.

Glyn Jones
Glyn Jones
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Just hasn’t happened to us here for 955 years.
America is started happening 429 years ago.
What is your point?

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  Glyn Jones

Perhaps if we still had disadvantaged “Saxon” communities in the present-day UK there might be some comparison.

M Harries
M Harries
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

But the Saxons (Germanic tribes) disadvantged (colonised) the British tribes first. Though the Germanic tribes are now referred to as the English by the … English; those Saxons who morphed into the English are still called Saxons (‘Saeson’ to be precise) by the British – those who speak the British tongue, as Shakespeare put it. Where the British tongue is now commonly known as Welsh. So, first the Romans, then the Saxons, then the Danes (Vikings), then the Normans (who were hitherto Danes). The British have been colonised over and over again.
The British seemed ambivalent about the Romans in the end – they kept one of their flags with the red dragon on it.

Last edited 3 years ago by M Harries
Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  M Harries

I was tempted to ask about the celts who had been displaced by the saxons, and muse on whether the Welsh and Scots were due compensation. But that would be silly.

Peter Dunn
Peter Dunn
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Listen to Sturgeon&SNP demanding more and more money from Westminster..err yesterday!

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

IOW, only some groups matter.

William Cameron
William Cameron
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Some might argue with your definition of “developed”. Yes I do think the USA would be a better place with fewer people and less concrete.
Same as the UK.

Ver Edge
Ver Edge
3 years ago

I wonder who we could get to volunteer to leave?

M Harries
M Harries
3 years ago

Yes, and would the world be in a better place if you were one of the ‘fewer people’? Have you ever found yourself walking on a concrete pavement and feeling guilty about legitimising it?
Just consider how your consumption of oxygen, use of plastic packaging, heating your house, driving your car, taking the bus is making matters worse. I mean, don’t consider it too much.
Just look at how the wheel has been used to industrialise! The North American Indians were far more virtuous, they obviously shunned using the wheel knowing where it would nefariously lead, evidenced by them not using them when the Europeans arrived.

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

I’m not making any such claim, THopp. Nor do I know exactly what concessions or advantages are available in the US to Native Americans (or in Australia to Aboriginal people, or to the Maori in NZ). But it seems likely that it’s based on compensating to some degree for the effects of invasion and ongoing discrimination since then. But I wasn’t debating the concessions, or whether they are justified.
What I was pointing out is that (Romans, Normans, Vikings and marauding slavers notwithstanding), there has been no comparable recent invasion of the UK that might be used to justify special compensatory measures for “Native Britons” due to how they are oppressed by the invaders and their descendants.
Ethniciodo Rodenydo possibly imagines that the level of immigration we have in the UK nowadays has a similar effect on us that the white settlers had on Native Americans in the USA, or the Normans had on Saxons in England after AD 1066. He would be wrong.
We can’t pick a “year zero” and roll back history and migration to that one perfectly correct allocation of people to land. But there may be a case for compensating the dispossessed from Turkish Cyprus, Crimea, Palestine, etc. It gets harder, amd more debatable the further back you go, though.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

No, if the people disturbed by one invasion, who are all long since died, get to claim special benefits then you can’t deny them to those disturbed by other invasions of long since died people. You can’t pick and choose. Why is anyone being “compensated” for things that did not happen to them? But if that’s to be the way of things, then we should not exclude some from compensation for things that did not happen to them either. That simply is not equitable.

Marcus Millgate
Marcus Millgate
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Whats stopping people in this woke world fraudulently identifying themselves as a victims of an oppressed group with the largest compensation ?

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

America wasn’t a country when the Europeans invaded. It wasn’t a country when the “native Americans” arrived even earlier.
It was England doing the invading and resources taking in what was to become America, of course. Along with other assorted Europeans. Shouldn’t you be paying us reparations?

Last edited 3 years ago by Annette Kralendijk
Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
3 years ago

Leaving aside the fact that the UK didn’t come into existence until 1801 Annette, you are presumably referring to the French, the Spanish and the Russians, who all held territory in what is now the USA.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago

England was indeed a country before 1776 but as I noted it was not the only country to have arrived in what was then known as the new world prior to 1776.
I’ve made the point elsewhere that there was no UK when many of its invaders arrived when Paul tried to use the non existence of the US as a country when the Europeans invaded. He has since dropped that line of reasoning. Likely because it made no sense.

Last edited 3 years ago by Annette Kralendijk
Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago

“Paul tried to use the non existence of the US as a country when the Europeans invaded”

Oh no I didn’t… 🙂

joycebrette
joycebrette
3 years ago

Nope

Glyn Reed
Glyn Reed
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Have you ever read any history Paul? I suggest you try reading The Norman Conquest by Marc Morris and learn how the English suffered and how the ruling elite was replaced by French speaking Normans. Any uprisings were ruthlessly suppressed – read about the Harrrying of the North.

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  Glyn Reed

Where did I claim the Norman conquest of England was all sweetness and light? As I mentioned elsewhere, the conversation was about oppressed groups in the present day, not injustices from previous millennia. (This isn’t theology, where you really do have to mention everything all of the time, to avoid people thinking you’ve left something out to make a point).
It’s telling that Saxon words for animals survive in English as the names for the creatures tended by farmworkers (Cow, Swine, Sheep), and the words derived from Norman French describe what the invaders ate in their castles (Beef, Pork, Mutton).

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Who do you consider oppressed groups today. And specifically how are they oppressed?

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago

Maybe it’s a bit like art – you know it when you see it?
Would you say that white people in the UK and the USA, and white males in particular, are as a group oppressed? Clearly individuals may be. But as a whole, or in general?

Marcus Millgate
Marcus Millgate
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

In what way are non whites oppressed in the UK & US but not in black/brown majority countries ?

dom2454
dom2454
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

Well, there would be the descendants of the people living there tens of thousands of years ago…but, to be perfectly accurate, the only people who can claim to be indigenous to any place are the first African hominids. Wait, since we ALL descend from them, I guess we can ALL claim to be indigenous Africans. Right?

Aidan Collingwood
Aidan Collingwood
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

Or, as shown in the Netflix series Bridgerton, the Duke of Hastings and Queen Charlotte herself no less, both non-white and both doyens of Britain in the Regency era, apparently. The fetishism of a majority non-white Britain doesn’t only apply to its future but also, apparently, to its past.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago

You do know it wasn’t a documentary?

Andrew Thompson
Andrew Thompson
3 years ago

Like the American presidents who say they are Irish when their God knows how many back grandads were the last relative to have actually set foot in the ‘old country’. It seems everyone wants to be someone else these days and everyone seems to want to encourage them too. Must be something wrong with me; though I do confess to wishing I was someone who was marginally richer than I am would be jolly nice. (Unfortunately: I am just a poor boy and my story’s seldom told)

Cheryl Jones
Cheryl Jones
3 years ago

When I was at uni in the 90s (totally ensconced in the world of Marxist-feminist theory and using the word patriarchy 50 times a day) I remember our American Studies lecturer gave a talk on an emerging phenomenon, about no longer being just ‘American’, that melting pot was ‘allowing people to reclaim their heritage’ and so we get African-American, Italian-American etc. At the time I did not dare contradict the glee with which this was celebrated as a push back on evil American hegemony – but my actual thoughts were that this would atomise society and America would find itself in trouble. I hate to say I was right.

dom2454
dom2454
3 years ago
Reply to  Cheryl Jones

Teddy Roosevelt was right:
“There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else. The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.”
Theodore Roosevelt 
Address to the Knights of Columbus 
New York City- October 12th, 1915

Peter Dunn
Peter Dunn
3 years ago
Reply to  dom2454

Wow ol Teddy nailed it!

Peter Dunn
Peter Dunn
3 years ago
Reply to  Cheryl Jones

Very well said.

Btw me too was of that religion..now happily de-programmed.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago

Yes, we seem to have lost the ability to separate ancestry from citizenship.

Peter Dunn
Peter Dunn
3 years ago

But you stand as a boxer and fighter by trade..

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
3 years ago

Do they do Zoom interviews to make sure you look like Geronimo or Pocahontas?

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago

No, you cannot be asked to prove your race. Nor could most of us anyway.

David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago

I believe Cherokee works especially well.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  David Morley

Yes it would but there’s no tribal designation required. You can just say Native American. This is how Elizabeth Warren got in trouble, she specified a tribe of which she notably was NOT a member. Of course then it got even worse when she did an ancestry test and came out whiter than milk and inexplicably decided to wave the results around in public.

Angus J
Angus J
3 years ago

Everyone born in the US is a native American – it’s what the word ‘native’ means – that you reside in the same country in which you were born.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Angus J

Yes and you get money for claiming Native America!

David Platzer
David Platzer
3 years ago

Yes there is a very white looking Democrat senator who did just that. It seems too that boasting mental health problems is another way of getting ahead.

David Bell
David Bell
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

Like Americans who called themselves Canadians and had maple leaf flags on their backpacks to prove it, during the Vietnam War.

Ned Costello
Ned Costello
3 years ago
Reply to  David Bell

Fun fact, around 30,000 Americans fled to Canada to avoid the Draft during the Vietnam War. In return, around 30.000 Canadians headed south and joined the US forces specifically to served in Vietnam.

David J
David J
3 years ago
Reply to  Ned Costello

Interesting reversal, though the figure I have is c12,000 Canadians.

Allons Enfants
Allons Enfants
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

Did Meghan always identify as black?

Probably not when she had her nose done. Or her hair straightened. Skin bleached. So, most likely not always, only when expedient.

connieperkins9999
connieperkins9999
3 years ago
Reply to  Allons Enfants

She reads as white, I’d assume she was Spanish or Italian if I didn’t know otherwise. She’s married two white men, her best friends are all white, her aesthetic is entirely white, as is her hair and her speech.
I’d give her claims way more mental space if she registered as a ‘black’ person on anyone’s radar.

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago

She looks Thai.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

Sorry – not good looking enough.

Ver Edge
Ver Edge
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

She’s Greek, and lovely looking, a total Siren.

Ver Edge
Ver Edge
3 years ago
Reply to  Allons Enfants

Do we know for a fact the she has had all that nose/hair/bleaching done? Because that would be interesting.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
3 years ago
Reply to  Ver Edge

Do a forensic photo-search and all will be revealed.

Daniel Goldstein
Daniel Goldstein
3 years ago
Reply to  Ver Edge

She certainly looks whiter now than she did a few years ago.

Rob Mort
Rob Mort
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

Yeah I remember going to Scotland ( from London) to cover a story fir the institute of civil engineers MAG back in 1990 and on the ferry I was treated pretty piss poorly by the Scots working on the boat..I let it hang for a bit then told them I was Australian they completely changed their tune with me..wankas.

Mark Beal
Mark Beal
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

No, Meghan hasn’t always identified as black. In an interview for Elle magazine in 2015 (still linked from her Wikipedia page – though maybe not for long), she says among other things: “While my mixed heritage may have created a grey area surrounding my self-identification, keeping me with a foot on both sides of the fence, I have come to embrace that. To say who I am, to share where I’m from, to voice my pride in being a strong, confident mixed-race woman.”

There’s a lot in the article about what it means to her to be mixed race, but that’s clearly all gone out the window now, which strengthens the case for believing that she will say whatever she perceives to be the most expedient at any given moment.

Peter Dunn
Peter Dunn
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark Beal

But still me me me..

Jonathan Weil
Jonathan Weil
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

I was once at a wedding in Germany where I happened to mention to the woman sitting next to me that I am 1/10 Ashkenazi Jewish (I “identify” as British, U.K., whatever, but had recently done something called 23andMe where you send in some of your spit and they sequence your genome for you). From that moment on she went out of her way to bond with me; told me how much she enjoyed Unorthodox (the book, not the Netflix show) and how I simply must read it; started touching my arm a lot… Very strange experience. I felt I was in a false position, but there was something undeniably *relaxing* about the unearned status that my DNA was all of a sudden conferring…

sharon johnson
sharon johnson
3 years ago

The Markles are so obviously mentally and emotionally damaged they will never be able to think or behave rationally. They’ll never stop seeking out someone to blame for their misery and eventually they’ll blame each other. I doubt that marriage will last ten years.

David Hartlin
David Hartlin
3 years ago

If Meghan Markle is black,then I’m Chinese,seriously my little sister and eldest daughter are darker than her,that’s from Irish,Scot’s,English,German,French and Native American ancestry.

James Rowlands
James Rowlands
3 years ago
Reply to  David Hartlin

I have thought about this for at least 20 seconds……
From now on I will self identify as Klingon.
Why not?

Bertie B
Bertie B
3 years ago
Reply to  David Hartlin

While I personally can’t stand Meghan Markle, and don’t believe she has been treated any worse than any other celebrity, I had to chime in on that statement.

Regardless of their skin colour (or any other personal trait) your family are absolutly entitled to claim that they are descended from any of the nationalities (and ethinic groups) you mention – just as you have done in your comment.

Therefore if Meghan wants to identify with her black heritage she is perfectly entitled to! Your denial of that right, based on her not being ‘dark enough’, is racist.

Last edited 3 years ago by Bertie B
David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

descended 

No one is saying she can’t claim to be descended from black people. In reality, of course, she is of mixed race. If it is true that she has had cosmetic surgery etc to make herself look whiter (is this true?) then her actions are at odds with her identification. Not surprising if people feel she identifies in the way which is most useful to her at the time.

George Bruce
George Bruce
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

Bertie B – yes and no.

Therefore if Meghan wants to identify with her black heritage she is perfectly entitled to! Your denial of that right, based on her not being ‘dark enough’, is racist.

I agree that Meghan is entitled to make the claim, but aren`t we also entitled to say the claim is flimsy and/or even wrong, or doubt her sincerity? Free speech and differences of opinion and all that stuff – old-fashioned, I know!

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

If I am entitled self identify my sex regardless of birth then I can self identify my race regardless of racial origin. What’s the problem

Laura Creighton
Laura Creighton
3 years ago

You are being logical. This doesn’t work in the world these days. Indeed, I know of a woman who is currently having a hellish problem with this. 24 years ago, her Black American parents went to the adoption agency and found a healthy dark-skinned girl whom they took home, loved, and raised. She grew up loving them and was and is the apple of their eye. She grew up as a Black middlle class kid in a Black middle class family, and in due course went to university claiming certain benefits due to her Blackness. And all would be fine except that she got interested in genetic testing both to locate blood relatives and susceptibility to certain diseases and the like.
Lo and behold, she tested out to be Spanish-from-Spain + Dominican. There may be some African genes in her, but they do not appear to be particularly recent. Now from my point of view — so what? She’s culturally a Black American. But apparantly the university grant givers feel differently. They are talking about needing to decide whether what she did was a crime.

Ver Edge
Ver Edge
3 years ago

Really!?!?! Wow! The depth of the irony there is staggering! Blood libels, genetic determinism, anti-identitariainism. Good grief!

William Cameron
William Cameron
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

It may be wrong – or right. It certainly is not racist. Please don’t devalue the word racist. It needs to be kept to describe real dangerous racism.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

I think you are confusing culture and genetics. Culturally, she is in the White camp, and using current White wokeness to promote her name, Genetically, she appears to be 50 per cent White, 50 per cent Black. She identifies with whatever is going to feed her mania for publicity – and the consequent $$$ which the publicity machine generates. Let’s just recognise her for the lying minx she is. You think she recognises & understands Black heritage?,

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

Therefore if Meghan wants to identify with her black heritage she is perfectly entitled to! Your denial of that right, based on her not being ‘dark enough’, is racist.
Where is this “right” found exactly? Never mind that no one has denied it. People have simply noticed how opportunistic it is to claim racism at every turn, and that people like her seldom have an interest in claiming their white heritage. Tiger Woods is among the rare exceptions to this, refusing to be labeled as a black man.

David Hartlin
David Hartlin
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

I would be an idiot to identify as anything listed.Certainly if I chose to wear a kilt or a medieval tunic no on would care but a war bonnet? I would be crucified.

Peter Dunn
Peter Dunn
3 years ago
Reply to  Bertie B

Says BertieB, the arbiter of all things ethnic..

Cheryl Jones
Cheryl Jones
3 years ago
Reply to  David Hartlin

You can’t have English ancestry – English isn’t a thing. So we’re told.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  Cheryl Jones

Who told you that? Or are you just playing the English Victim card?

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  Cheryl Jones

I have English ancestry…

Miro Mitov
Miro Mitov
3 years ago

It is indeed frightening how easy nowadays is to ruin the reputation, standing or career of a person by uttering a bunch of unsubstantiated allegations of racism on air. Facts, corroboration, listening to the other side’s view- none of that. You just need to allege that somebody has been racist towards you, the mob takes it up and that is the end of the targeted person.
And mark you- it does not even have to be an outright allegation of racism. You just need to imply and suggest- the mob will do the rest. Someone said something about the colour of Meghan’s baby and suddenly Prince William is asked if he and his family are racists and Prince Charles is the unnamed but widely suspected villain.
It does not matter that there may be a number of different takes on the alleged ‘Archie’s colour’ comment- from ‘With Harry being the palest ginger and Meghan having a nice tan to her I wonder who Archie will look like more?’ to ‘Uncle Harry, will auntie Meg-Meg’s baby look like her or like you?’. All it matters is that a ‘woman of colour’ has felt racially insulted and as we have been told you never question that. The papers stay silent, commentators keep their heads down and hope that the eye of Sauron passes them over and finds somebody else for the monster to devour. These are indeed troubling times and I fear worse is yet to come.

Alison Houston
Alison Houston
3 years ago

Did Murray have to resign? The fact that he did so due to pressure from blacks and Asians at mostly recent publications makes me suspicious. The fact that they called his remarks ridiculous and so he stepped down seems fishy. Why would someone who truly believes that factual reporting is necessary quietly give up their job because a bunch of ethnic minority new comers working for minor publications makes the opposite claim?

The whole thing is set up. The establishment do not want a free press, they have fought tooth and nail against the fourth estate for decades. The establishment have taken away all our civil liberties, and giggle about it when confronted by the one or two remaining journalists who challenge them, they are erasing our history, what do they care for facts and free speech and reporting. The internet is controlled by the left wing, ordinary people’s views are not to count for anything. This is a Communist revolution presided over by a ‘Conservative’ government.

Last edited 3 years ago by Alison Houston
Simon Denis
Simon Denis
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

I must confess, it feels increasingly as if something very like that is indeed unfolding. Murray allows that we are “freedom-less”; he acknowledges that we are only allowed one opinion about a range of matters; he points out that this one opinion where Markle is concerned is in conflict with the facts; and another prominent journalist has confessed, in the Telegraph, that writing against certain dogmas is now too costly in terms of complaint and “regulation”. So what is happening? And if it is a form of communist takeover – the word “revolution” is and always has been a lie – what is the hold that keeps so many MPs silent?

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
3 years ago
Reply to  Simon Denis

As I have said a few times, MPs work with upticks and downticks. Everything they say is tailored to prevent downticks. So, they can’t actually do anything but go along with the crowd.

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Sounds a bit like the post-Disqus comment threads on unHerd.

Chris Mackay
Chris Mackay
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

Food for thought. The revolution has been under way for many years, however, the silent majority woke (excuse me) up about two years ago (my estimation) and the fightback started then. The left is beginning to understand there is resistance and is increasing its efforts. The conservative – small ‘c’ intended – silent majority is working out how to reverse the advances made over the last thirty or so years and, though it will take time, this response will be successful. I suggest this will be the case as history shows it to be so when the leaners go too far, the lifters recover the moral and ethical high ground because of the reality of natural social survival. Plato was wrong and each disciple since has also been wrong. The siren songs of equality and fairness are superficial and are defeated as soon as objections are raised.

Simon Denis
Simon Denis
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Mackay

I hope this is true. But there have been occasions when the insane have taken over. 20th century history is littered and marked with such disasters: 1917, 1933, 1949 and so on.

Frances Mann
Frances Mann
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Mackay

Hi Chris in what respect was Plato wrong here? Just looking to learn more, thanks.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Mackay

I really hope so

Rosy Martin
Rosy Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Mackay

I agree Chris, there are hopeful signs. Something like this happened in medicine, around 15 years ago. For a while we got a raft of articles in the BMJ on how their higher rates of various diseases were all due to the nasty racist British doctors.- usually by minor academics of all kinds.We also got lectured by nice young girls in saris about how horrible we were. At first the medical profession was stunned and kept quiet. Gradually, however, they found their voice and pointed out that there could be other reasons for poorer outcomes. At first the attackers simply shouted louder – and I suggest that’s what we are seeing here with the Left’s defence of wokery- but gradually, as we got braver and defended ourselves, they realised they were making total asses of themselves and shut up. It was easier in medicine, as things are easier to prove in a narrow field, but in time, after a lot of collateral damage, I predict that will happen over the broader issues.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

People are easily bought.
Even that very modest little man, the ‘sainted’ Clem Attlee saw fit to ‘walk off’ with an Earldom! Then there are Knighthoods for those journalistic titans such as Simon Jenkins (of Childers notoriety) and Max (Hitler)*Hastings of Falkland fame.

No doubt a juicy bauble awaits a compliant Mr Murray when the time comes, but most of us are not fooled.
* As you will note I have mentioned the dreaded ‘H’ word by way on a empirical experiment to see if the ‘new look’ UnHerd Censor will, to lapse into the vernacular, “throw a hissy fit!”

Last edited 3 years ago by Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

People are easily bought.
Even that very modest little man, the ‘sainted’ Clem Attlee saw fit to ‘walk off’ with an Earldom! Then there are Knighthoods for those journalistic titans such as Simon Jenkins (of Childers notoriety) and Max Hastings of Falkland fame.

No doubt a juicy bauble awaits a compliant Mr Murray when the time comes, but most of us are not fooled.

Samuel Gee
Samuel Gee
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

It was money pressure. The SOE had a fundraising gala dinner or somesuch event and cancellations started coming in.

Cheryl Jones
Cheryl Jones
3 years ago
Reply to  Samuel Gee

Thing is, by capitulating so readily they will not win those people back and have forfeited the moral high ground that might win them new supporters. Never apologise to the woke mob! Something Piers, bless him, seems to understand.

Stephen Playdon
Stephen Playdon
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

I agree that there is an agenda is in play to change our whole way of life and powerful causes such as racism, sexual equality and fairness, healthcare and the whole climate, and ecology spectrum provide great cover for whatever needs to be done to bring down the old institutions (Who may be bulwarks). None of these issues can be argued against and are ostensibly for the good of everyone but the evil is in how they are being used as “Human shields” to force change on a global scale and how democracy is being replaced by a management control which has no scruples. The lack of transparency and accountability is very disturbing.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

Why would someone who truly believes that factual reporting is necessary quietly give up their job because a bunch of ethnic minority new comers working for minor publications makes the opposite claim?
Because this type of mob makes up in volume what it lacks in reason and numbers. Because the demand for racist or offensive incidents far surpasses the supply, and so cases have to be manufactured in order to feed the beast. Because these people think nothing of hounding Murray and probably his associates at their homes, in their private time, extending that to their families. It’s a version of terrorism with a bit less violence, though that’s not entirely off the table as a tactic.

James B
James B
3 years ago

Every time I read a piece by Douglas Murray I want to cry. Am I just another victim, cornered by his unforgivable lack of a progressive agenda and utter failure to notice the compassion at the heart of Sussex brand, set up for the purpose of world betterment? Mr Murray, in the unlikely event that you ever read this, please, please, don’t stop. My suicidal tendencies are only kept from fulfilment by what you write for you convince me that there really are people in the world of journalism who are neither congenital morons nor cowards.

Tom Fox
Tom Fox
3 years ago

I’m white British with a 25% dash of Italian from my great grandparents who came from southern Italy in 1895. THE DUCHESS OF SUSSEX IS IN EVERY WAY PALER SKINNED THAN ME. I never get any racism from anybody, but then, I don’t spend my time whining about my blackness and I also try to avoid narcissistic self publicity.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

I think that’s 12.5 per cent Italian unless some more Italians married into the family subsequently.

David Brewer
David Brewer
3 years ago
Reply to  Jos Haynes

No, it is at least 25%. Each of us has at most four distinct sets of great grandparents, so two great grandparents make up at least two out of eight. If there is any cousin marriage the denominator will be less than eight, making the fraction greater than a quarter.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
3 years ago

2005: Policy guide to ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers)
A hate incident is defined as any incident, which may or may not be a criminal offence, which is perceived by the victim or any other person, as being motivated by hostility or prejudice. (modified 2014 version).
UnHerd contributors are 16 years behind the times. The police must list and investigate every hate incident and decide whether it is a crime or not. At the very least, they have to council the perpetrators to be more careful in the future. This is why the newspapers are gagged.
Note that the incident is nothing to do with fairness or reality; it is merely a perception on behalf of the so-called victim.

Simon Denis
Simon Denis
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

No, the times are two hundred years behind freedom.

John Wilkes
John Wilkes
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

If it is found that no crime took place, a NCHI (non criminal hate incident) is recorded against the ‘perpetrator’. This is defined as taking place whenever anyone perceives there to have been an offence, i.e. there is no defence.
These incidents do show up whenever a disclosure and barring check (usually referred to as a criminal record check) is done.
In other words the accusation leads automatically to guilt, even when it is determined that no offence took place.
What a lovely world we live in.

Simon Denis
Simon Denis
3 years ago
Reply to  John Wilkes

Quite, not only guilty until proved innocent, but never proved innocent at all – and all arising from a malicious accusation; and an accusation of what? Of having an opinion. The left has built yet another prison house – this time by stealth – and still it imagines that coercion will change us or do us good. They’re no better than the quacks who tried to twist Lord Byron’s club foot into shape.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
3 years ago
Reply to  John Wilkes

..

Last edited 3 years ago by Chris Wheatley
Linda Brown
Linda Brown
3 years ago
Reply to  John Wilkes

Why does it not surprise me that Blair was in power.

D Ward
D Ward
3 years ago
Reply to  John Wilkes

Grrrr why can’t I uptick anything anymore? It’s all so annoyingly random.

Cheryl Jones
Cheryl Jones
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

This is the bit that has always strongly bothered me about so-called hate speech legislation. It is entirely subjective and takes no notice of the fact that the ‘wounded party’ can themselves be motivated by spite, revenge, delusion, self-promotion, or just having a delicate constitution. I always thought the law was meant to be neutral, objective and based on evidence. Someone’s hurt feefees does not, in my view, constitute evidence or objectivity.

Dan Gleeballs
Dan Gleeballs
3 years ago
Reply to  Cheryl Jones

Why then, with a majority of 80, won’t this Conservative government stand up for free speech and repeal hate crime laws? How many more lives and careers must be sacrificed?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
3 years ago
Reply to  Dan Gleeballs

This should be their priority given their strong electoral mandate.
Everything else is of little value in the scheme of things.

Last edited 3 years ago by Charles Stanhope
Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago

Some of us would also like Covid-19 and post-Brexit trade and the Northern Ireland Protocol to be addressed. Culture wars are hardly the only pressing issue.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  Dan Gleeballs

Dan, I think it’s because even this Conservative government realises even if they don’t think hate crime is real, or that widespread racism is real, there are 8 million UK citizens who are eligible to vote or will be soon who directly have skin in the game and millions of others who believe it is real.
The Conservative popular vote was less than 4 million higher (half the BME population) than the Labour party popular vote in 2019. And, as many right wing commentators point out, the BME population is younger than the white population, already more inclined not to vote Conservative and growing at a proportionately faster rate than the white population.
Unless the Conservative party can come up with a way of persuading all those people who think they experience racism that they are imagining it (or refuse them the vote) then the Conservative party will lose elections. Unless, of course, they also persuade all those people the Conservative party is serious about addressing racism.
In my view, the problem the Conservative party has is that they don’t really have any core beliefs. They aren’t really that bothered by racism, it’s just one of those things that happens and shouldn’t be allowed to get in the way of business, but they feel they have to make the right noises to get votes from those people who do care about it.
But if they do that too loudly then they’ll lose the votes of those who really are racist or who think every person with a different ethnic background from them is taking a job that could go to their family.
Brexit gave the Conservative party a short term solution to their dilemma – they could be anti-foreigner and so maintain the support of those inclined that way while not being explicitly racist. (Although they kept up enough ‘hostile environment’ and anti asylum policies going to provide reassurance to the real racists that they were still on their side).
Hope that helps.

Daniel Goldstein
Daniel Goldstein
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Fair enough analysis, and it probably partially explains voter ID legislation. Though it’s a problem that’s been a long time coming for them.

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  Cheryl Jones

Subjective definitions for incidents that get recorded are problematic. Is the definition for hate *crime* also subjective? That would be more serious.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

No. The police will only investigate the right kind of hate incident. Twitter about knee capping white men or abolishing whiteness is only apparently ground for promotion.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

So if someone perceives that you have committed a hate crime against them, you could perceive their perception as a hate crime as well?

Cheryl Jones
Cheryl Jones
3 years ago

Too many people are accepting the noise generated by activists and woke celebrities as being representative of a wider attitude and absolute truth. And too many are bending before it begging for forgiveness, truth be damned. Any student of medieval history will recognise this.

Julia H
Julia H
3 years ago

I’m no royalist but confess to being aghast that Markle could choose International Women’s Day to effectively trash the career and legacy of a 94 year old woman who has given over 70 years’ loyal service to her country and the Commonwealth, at a time when that woman’s husband is struggling to stay alive until his 100th birthday. Irrespective of royal status, it seems particularly cruel to treat one’s elderly grandparents-in-law this way, adding to their anxieties at a difficult time when one of them must be worried that she is about to be widowed. The fact this treatment has arisen at the hands of someone who claims to be compassionate, and who once complained “Not many people have asked me if I’m ok” is quite simply breathtaking. It is incumbent on a free press to challenge this narrative.

Last edited 3 years ago by Julia H
Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago
Reply to  Julia H

It would be even more shocking if she actually had trashed either the career or the legacy of the Queen – something she studiously avoided during the interview. In fact Meghan spoke of the Queen only in very positive terms, and she did not criticise any family members by name. The household, she was not so positive about, but then her mother in law had a similar impression of that crowd.

Julia H
Julia H
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Are you kidding? She implied that the Queen is the matriarch of a racist institution and that is the message that has gone around the world. Far from studiously avoiding criticising individuals she tried to distance herself – but only just enough – from the clear implications of what she was saying while still allowing the criticism to hang over the Queen, Katherine and Prince Charles to name just three. For example whilst saying that Katherine apologised for upsetting her before her wedding MM let it be known that in her opinion Katherine was responsible for the spat. What kind of person does this to their family in public, in front of an audience of millions?

G Harris
G Harris
3 years ago

‘The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing’, so the saying goes.

‘Evil’ might arguably be stretching it a bit, but certainly removing the good men who try to do something like the hapless Mr Murray mentioned ‘pour encourager les autres’ and who might bravely fancy their chances sticking their heads above the parapet in future certainly can’t hurt ‘evil’s’ chances none too much can it?

Claire D
Claire D
3 years ago
Reply to  G Harris

“Evil” is not stretching it, it is exactly what it is, lies based on lies, in the full knowledge that they are lying, that is evil.

Cheryl Jones
Cheryl Jones
3 years ago
Reply to  Claire D

I agree with you Claire, it is evil – and knowingly so. It’s like the kind of glee taken by a psychopath in pulling the wings off a helpless fly.

Nick Johns
Nick Johns
3 years ago

No one, who is not either illiterate or half-witted, could misconstrue Murray’s comments, except wilfully.

Chandra Chelliah
Chandra Chelliah
3 years ago

The so-called ‘truth’ mentioned in the interview have been taken as gospel but they are just ALLEGATIONS. This should be stated whenever they are repeated by the media and the public.

Janice Mermikli
Janice Mermikli
3 years ago

Yes, they are just allegations and, to quote a trades union leader from many years ago, we know who the alligator is!

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago

Look at who is often likely to make such demands or issue such pabulum statements – white people. The white left treats minorities as little more than pets or mascots, never as individuals with agency. These are the people who don’t black people are capable of getting IDs, despite the fact that the majority has state-issued identification already.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago

Do facts still matter? 
Only if they support the preferred narrative. That is the only explanation for Big Tech’s serial silencing of medical professionals who deviate from Faucian dogma, including the takedown of a video involving a US Senate committee. Let that sink in – private business essentially censoring govt.
Facts about police and civilians yield malicious truths, so they have to be quashed. As it is, potential jurors in the George Floyd case are petrified that their identities will be released, and those people have good reason for their fear.

Geoff Cox
Geoff Cox
3 years ago

Why has Ian Murray “resigned”? This suggests he has done something wrong. A better description would be “sacked”. However, no doubt by resigning, he has kept his pension or taken some redundancy or something. Either way, all the management of the Society of Editors had to do, was keep their heads down for a week and the whole storm-in-a-teacup would have blown over. But no doubt they stood by when all this kicked off with Dankula … and now it’s their turn.

David Shaw
David Shaw
3 years ago

Well done Douglas. As always spot on! Hopefully a balance is coming with GB news and Andrew Neil

G Worker
G Worker
3 years ago

Black fragility was explained over two decades ago by the Conservative critic Joseph Sobran, writing in Sobrans, April 1997:
“Western man towers over the rest of the world in ways so large as to be almost inexpressible. It’s Western exploration, science, and conquest that have revealed the world to itself.
“Other races feel like subjects of Western power long after colonialism, imperialism, and slavery have disappeared. The charge of racism puzzles whites who feel not hostility, but only baffled good will, because they don’t grasp what it really means: humiliation. The white man presents an image of superiority even when he isn’t conscious of it. And, superiority excites envy. Destroying white civilization is the inmost desire of the league of designated victims we call minorities.”

jonathan carter-meggs
jonathan carter-meggs
3 years ago

I like reading DM and find him and others like a little candle in a very dark room. There are so many articles that accurately depict the errors and issues that the woke left are inflicting upon us using the might of like minded social media. Yet….where are our heroes, defenders of free speech, opinion formers that can see the troubles brewing. DM, Lord S, Toby Young, Andrew Neil are too few to fight all the battles on their own and our formerly stoic institutions are falling without throwing a punch. I cant help feeling that we are heading to a tipping point.

Alan Hawkes
Alan Hawkes
3 years ago

“a lot of work to be done in the media to improve diversity and inclusion”. 
Which is code for, “We must make sure that only the point of view held by twitter-mobs is published. Any opinion that diverges from that is to be excluded.”
Thus does “diversity and inclusion,” come to mean the precise opposite.

CL van Beek
CL van Beek
3 years ago
Reply to  Alan Hawkes

Fact!

Patrick Langan
Patrick Langan
3 years ago

We are clearly living in a society which lacks integrity and has lost it’s moral compass, without stating the bleeding obvious! Those in positions of leadership both political and moral are not prepared to stand up and be counte. The consequences of this will only increase the decline of our over indulged society and permanently destroy it’s guiding structures.

Richard Turpin
Richard Turpin
3 years ago

I couldn’t agree more with Douglas!
The post modernists have determined the best way to kill debate, a different opinion and an immediate intellectual threat, is to close the taxi doors, make loud incoherent and often baseless noises, and always include the word racism and in doing so, believe themselves to be righteous, virtuous and most importantly, always on the correct and just side of any argument. This is a hideous, ideological cancer that needs shackling at its roots. It is doing nothing but divide, destabilise and force people into positions of perceived guilt for having done absolutely nothing wrong other than contest another’s opinion. The irony is, these very same people that profess an enlightened view of the world are far more likely to be protagonists of hate, bullying and ultimately death, than the people that directly question and debate the absurdity of their intellectual position.
And for the love of the world will people stop apologising in the hope to be liked or left alone when they have done absolutely nothing wrong. Apologising is only making the simpletons worse and justified in their appalling behaviour.

Jeff Mason
Jeff Mason
3 years ago

People need to grow a spine and stand up for themselves. What Murray said was not only not wrong, it was very much right. If you are going to accuse someone or some institution of something horrible, you should immediately expect a sane person to ask you for proof. All because you are female, or black or gay or any other protected group at the moment should not absolve you of that responsibility. People are so easily cowed. Murray and the Society of Editors caved to mob pressure and apologized. For what? Being fair? Telling the truth? We need to STOP APOLOGIZING, Stand by your words and be ready to defend them. Push back against the terror or we will soon see figurative guillotines the public square again. Or maybe not so figurative.

Angela Frith
Angela Frith
3 years ago

The tabloids can be dangerous – as when they publish the names and photographs of senior judges under the headline “Enemies of the People”
Racist? I don’t doubt it. Still I am concerned when a chat show host on another continent can point a finger, say “J’accuse” and destroy people’s lives and career here in Britain.

Geoff Allen
Geoff Allen
3 years ago

Just wonder if MeGain has discussed Harry’s little incident 12 or so years ago when he was training as a Sandhurst Officer as reported in the liberal Guardian newspaper- as a 21-year-old officer cadet during a military exercise in Cyprus. In one extract his camera pans round his colleagues, sleeping in the RAF departure lounge while waiting for their flight. Homing in on one fellow cadet, the prince is heard to say, quietly: “Ah, our little Paki friend Ahmed.”
This turned out to be Ahmed Raza Khan, now a captain in the Pakistani army, who was awarded the best overseas cadet prize at Sandhurst. If he heard the remark at the time, he did not react to it.
Another sequence, taken at night, has him filming a fellow cadet wearing a camouflage hood with the remark: “It’s Dan the Man. F**k me, you look like a raghead. Look at me, look at me … look away,” with which his colleague complied. “Raghead” is army slang for Taliban and al-Qaida fighters.

Ver Edge
Ver Edge
3 years ago

“As soon as the disagreement was publicised, the online mob did what it always does and swiftly became an expert on a person previously unknown to them. ” LOL Yes, that is exactly what they do.

Jonathan Nash
Jonathan Nash
3 years ago

Even the terms of these apologies are now becoming standardised – “We must reflect…” “We will do better…” “Part of the solution…”. They are exactly like the public confessions extracted during the Cultural Revolution, and just as sinister.

Adrian Maxwell
Adrian Maxwell
3 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan Nash

….not forgetting the dread phrase, squeezed out at the tip of sword fallen upon ………’clearly caused offence ….’

Richard Lord
Richard Lord
3 years ago

Megan and Harry have every right to say whatever they wish, even if this causes upset or offence to others. However, it is cowardly to say things things without proffering any evidence, knowing that those they attack are unlikely to be in a position to argue back. They are the worst of the woke pervading our society. The best approach is to ignore them and let them fade into obscurity. The Americans will soon tire of them.

Steve Dean
Steve Dean
3 years ago

I don’t think Piers Morgan was forced to leave was he? He left of his own accord. He has even been quoted as saying that he hasn’t been cancelled. I expect he was leaving anyway and this gives maximum publicity to his next venture.
I was hoping Douglas Murray would provide us with a solid argument as to why the ‘avocado’ and ‘wedding bouquet’ coverage were not evidence of what my be considered different treatment by the press of Kate and Meghan. They seem the two most sensible examples I have seen so far.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
3 years ago

Would someone kindly show me where the exit to reality is?
Also: can Oprah please invite Douglas Murray on her show? And can we have the delight of seeing Meghan properly interviewed, by – say – Paxman?

Last edited 3 years ago by Katharine Eyre
Johnny Sutherland
Johnny Sutherland
3 years ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Get me a seat on the train please.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
3 years ago

An ‘artist’ was left out of the Grammy Awards because his contribution didn’t meet the deadline. He screamed, “Racism” and the tabloids gave him all the publicity he could ever have hoped for. Easy.

Peter KE
Peter KE
3 years ago

The woke will not inherit the earth, we all need to push back and save our society and democracy from their bigoted thuggish behaviour.

Steve Gwynne
Steve Gwynne
3 years ago

Once upon a time Democracy was based on one person one vote. Now it is based on one person one tweet.

It is about time someone within a public institution ignored the Woke outrage just to see what happens next.

Sean MacSweeney
Sean MacSweeney
3 years ago

I don’t believe a word the gold digger Markle comes out with, once they are stripped of their titles (hopefully very soon) then she will ditch Harry (and probably strip most of his fortune in the process) moral of the story is never ever marry a left winger, nothing but trouble

Christopher Barclay
Christopher Barclay
3 years ago

The British media are paying the price for having covered up Meghan’s abuse of her staff. Had they told British taxpayers that they were paying for a Royal Family that allows its members to traumatise their employees, then Meghan would have no credibility. The British media did this because they wanted to maintain their symbiotic relationship with the Royal Family and ensure the flow of photo opportunities, stories and features that sold papers. It was for this reason that Andrew’s ties to Epstein were covered up for so long.
I share Douglas Murray’s alarm. It was difficult to believe that there could be more unpleasant people than the likes of Kelvin McKenzie and Paul Dacre determining what is published in the press. However it seems that is now the case.

David Platzer
David Platzer
3 years ago

How I wish Auberon Waugh was still alive and writing.

Ian Gribbin
Ian Gribbin
3 years ago

What bothers me is the conflating of her claims by the mental lobby.
Surely when people insincerely talk about being suicidal it cheapens what is a terrible issue – mostly for young men.

Peter Fisher
Peter Fisher
3 years ago

Douglas needs to read The Metro. It is a hotbed of racism towards white people. Last year it ran a series called, ‘The State of Racism’. It was basically a way to be racist to white people and then redefine the word racism, so by their definition it was impossible to be racist to white people. Vile racist scum.

Pete Marsh
Pete Marsh
3 years ago
Reply to  Peter Fisher

Neo-racists is the best term I’ve heard re those who have uncritically or maliciously swallowed Critical Race Theory.

Peter Gardner
Peter Gardner
3 years ago

The background to Meghan’s interview is simple.

  1. Meghan has a grudge against the Royal family and the monarchy because they did not see fit to change the constitution and century old traditions to comply with her opinion, personal desires and political and acitivist agenda. (No wonder she found it stressful!)
  2. Meghan would never think she might be in the wrong. Meghan gets what Meghan wants.
  3. No doubt Meghan’s lawyers warned her not to make any accusations that could be shown to be false. Hence insinuations.

So she spitefully, misguidedly, inaccurately and without justification implicated the Royal Family in the stress she caused herself by being wilfully obdurate and arrogant. Her attack is without justification and says more about her than it does about either the Royal Family or the monarchy.
That’s it. She is a ghastly spiteful woman. Full stop.
Let’s hope the UK never has to put up with her ever again.

Last edited 3 years ago by Peter Gardner
Ann Ceely
Ann Ceely
3 years ago

Folk choose how to interpret words that they hear or read.

I have chosen to regard Meghan and Harry to be lying in their video – which I do not believe Harry’s mother would have done.

And for Ian Murray to be perfectly correct.

Paul N
Paul N
3 years ago

Is Murray (either of them, in fact) seriously claiming that the UK tabloids are not toxic?

“One of the most disturbing accusations levelled by both Harry and Meghan during their interview concerned the toxicity of the British press, in particular the British tabloids… their accusations… [were] accepted as though they were simply fact.”

Our press – the tabloids in particular – have a long established and well documented pattern of building up celebrities, only to gleefully tear them down. Whether you think that racism did or did not play a part in any particular mauling, you can hardly be denying how the press behave.

John Wilkes
John Wilkes
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul N

Of course the tabloid press are toxic. However, in a free society people will say unpleasant and upsetting things. The alternative is to have an appointed body which would decide whether or not we have a right to say anything at all.
If you don’t like what somebody writes, don’t read it. Celebrities make money from column inches, good or bad so lets ease off on the sympathy somewhat.
Does anyone seriously believe that the Sussexes could have been paid millions for their Netflix role or an TV interview if the UK tabloids had completely ignored them?
No I didn’t watch it and haven’t read a tabloid for many years. My only concern with this story is how it relates to freedom of expression and a free press.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  John Wilkes

So, you are agreeing with Paul and disagreeing with Douglas Murray.

John Wilkes
John Wilkes
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Probably both, I was just saying that it doesn’t matter. The point is that yes the tabloid press are dreadful, but in a free society we have to allow people to say things which offend us.
We just don’t have to read them.
To paraphrase Voltaire ‘I defend your right to say things, even when I disagree with them’.