The Death of Empedocles by Salvator Rosa. According to myth, he leaped into the flames of a volcanic revolution. Credit: Immagini srl/CORBIS/Corbis via Getty Images

The summer of the year 1783 was an amazing and portentous one, and full of horrible phenomena, wrote the parson-naturalist Gilbert White:
“…for besides the alarming meteors and tremendous thunder‐storms that affrighted and distressed the different counties of this kingdom, the peculiar haze, or smokey fog, that prevailed for many weeks in this island, and in every part of Europe, and even beyond its limits, was a most extraordinary appearance, unlike anything known within the memory of man.”
According to White, July had been fiercely hot: “butchers’ meat could hardly be eaten on the day after it was killed; and the flies swarmed so in the lanes and hedges”. On 18 August a fireball was seen to course across the skies of southern England. That month and into September, the dank air was tainted with acid aerosol. As many as 25,000 Britons are believed to have died from associated respiratory disease and malaria. And all the while, crops were failing and livestock perishing, meaning the summer of suffering was followed by a winter of dearth and hunger.
The cause of all this misery was Laki, a huge volcanic fissure, 23km long, in the south-east of Iceland. Its eruption, beginning on 8 June 1783, brought the island’s life to a standstill for eight months. Jón Steingrímsson, an Icelandic pastor, described the initial impact: “Great cliffs and slabs of rock were swept along, tumbling about like large whales swimming [a very Icelandic metaphor], red-hot and glowing.” All in all, the eruption disgorged almost 15 cubic kilometres of lava, the greatest single amount ever recorded.
Steingrímsson noted that in the wake of the disaster, a mysterious illness affected his flock — both human and animal:
“Ridges, growths, and bristle appeared on their ribs, the backs of their hands, their feet, legs, and joints. Their bodies became bloated, the insides of their mouths and their gums swelled and cracked, causing excruciating pains and toothaches.”
A “haze” of sulphur dioxide from the eruption had created acid rains, which singed leaves and bark and irritated human flesh. An excess of fluorine in the air caused the bloating and swelling described by Steingrímsson. Almost a quarter of the nation’s human population died during this time, and more than 60% of its grazing livestock. “Those people who did not have enough supplies of food to last them through these times of pestilence suffered great pain.”
The phenomenon, and the tragedy, reached far beyond Iceland; it went global when the “haze” entered the jet stream, soon reaching the Continent. Ash from the eruption travelled as far as Venice, where the haze was so rich in iron that magnets were used to attract it. Italy had already suffered its own seismic tragedy that year: in February and March, Sicily and Calabria had been struck by a series of earthquakes that killed as many as 50,000 people. A tsunami broke over the beach at Scilla, where people were sheltering from their town’s collapsing buildings. 1,500 died.
Meanwhile in Bohemia, a teacher named Antonin Kodytek recorded that “the rising sun could not be seen due to the fires… from six to nine o’ clock the sun looked like a red hot iron ball”. Across Europe, temperatures fell around 1.5 degrees below average. Crops were damaged by acid rain. Monsoons failed, parts of the River Nile dried up and numerous ice floes were spotted in the normally tropical climes of the Gulf of Mexico. The Mississippi froze at New Orleans. Charleston harbour became a skating rink. Famine was recorded in Japan and the Indian subcontinent.
But perhaps the greatest impact of this lost year of harvests was felt in France — where food shortages, famine and febrile conspiracies became tinder for the fire of the French Revolution.
By 1783, France had suffered decades of poor harvests. And whereas once ailing crops had been seen as the will of God, by the 1770s they had taken on new meaning. Feast and famine were no longer accepted as part of the cycle of life, but had become the subjects of wild conspiracy theories.
At this time the monarch, Louis XVI, was also known by the title of le premier boulanger du royaume. It was his patrician duty, as the representative of God on earth, to provide his people with a basic diet, and for most that meant bread, however coarse. The wheat harvest took on enormous significance — a matter of life and death, and one open to outlandish and paranoid claims. Grain merchants became hated figures, for it was believed that they short-changed the people, mixing grain with inferior ingredients, even crushed bones. Allegations that they withheld public grain from the royal stores were commonplace. It was a way of rationally explaining the effects of nature, designed for an increasingly rational age.
The disturbances known as the Flour Wars of April and May 1775, which took place all over France, forced the king’s hand. He instructed his Controller General of Finances, Turgot, to impose a standard price on wheat. This was very much against the Controller General’s instincts at a time when économistes such as Vincent de Gournay, adherents of the invisible hand, were advocating laissez-faire policies.
But nature made a mockery of the king’s response. Poor harvests continued. And then Laki arrived, adding flooding and frost to the rack and ruin. One French priest exorcised a dust cloud, but to no effect. A cycle of extreme, unpredictable weather kicked in, which destabilised a society seeking new answers to old problems.
The spring of 1788, for instance, saw drought take hold. Conspiracy and climate gripped one another tightly in a general panic — the Great Fear — caused by baseless rumours of a plot by the aristocracy to starve peasants and workers. This alleged Pacte de Famine was a factor, too, in the Réveillon Riots of April 1789, another stone on the path to Revolution and Modernity.
A crisis combining climate change and conspiracy. Our age seems well seeded for such a thing. If French peasants of the 18th century, all too familiar with the vagaries of laughing chance and the fragility of nature, can fall prey to such thinking, then populations far more used to having control over their comfortable lives will surely seek “rational” explanations for their misfortune. The discourse surrounding the origins and course of Covid-19, for instance, demonstrates just how difficult it is for the modern mind to deal with contingency. There is a deep need to believe that nothing happens by chance.
That modern mind was forged around the time of Laki. The decades before its eruption had seen an explosion — sorry — of interest in vulcanology, which attracted the attention of Enlightenment philosophers. Immanuel Kant claimed that an erupting volcano was an example of the “dynamic sublime”, impressive in the immediacy of its might. Edmund Burke, in his great reaction to the events across the Channel, Reflections on the Revolution in France, humanised Kant’s insight. He references a Horatian myth about the philosopher Empedocles, who, “in cold blood, is said to have leaped into the flames of a volcanic revolution”. Burke calls this compulsion towards sublime destruction the Empedocles Complex. According to the philosopher David McCallum, he was defining an “extreme psychological state inducing its sufferer to throw himself or herself into the red-hot heat of Revolution in a mad identification with its terrible power”.
European Revolutionaries and Romantics adored the idea of a tragic figure defying God, monarch, or any other fixture of a capricious natural order. The age of Robespierre, of Danton, of Marat was also that of Shelley’s Prometheus Unbound and Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein: the Modern Prometheus. The god who brought fire to humankind was the idol of those who sought to create the world anew, unfettered by nature and its contingencies, which had caused so many to suffer.
Whereas before the Enlightenment, natural disasters were accepted as God’s will, the fathers of modernity politicised the years and lives lost to them, blaming the random on design, the contingent on conspiracy, skewering the order of things when nature wreaks havoc.
Now we look at countries that have “succeeded” in their fight against the virus — New Zealand, Israel, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam — seeking to learn lessons, believing that it was solely the rational acts of politicians and public bodies that brought them success. In doing so, we fail to acknowledge the contingency in those stories: New Zealand’s geographical isolation; Taiwan, South Korea and Israel’s military footing; the experience of SARS in Asia; the lack of obesity in Vietnam. Britain’s new-found success in the vaccination programme is similarly contingent — you might call it “lucky” — founded on the gambling instincts of venture capitalism, a highly centralised health service trusted by the people it serves, and access to world class universities. Policy made in the moment can only do so much.
Soon after its Revolution, France returned to monarchy on a grander scale, in the shape of the Emperor Napoleon, who dressed old-fashioned imperialism in brand new clothing. But Napoleon understood one thing the revolutionaries didn’t: contingency. Rehashing an old saying of Cardinal Mazarin, Louis XIV’s great diplomat, the Emperor is said to have asked of his generals not “is he skilful?”, but rather “is he lucky?”. Though it seems flippant, it’s an important and enduring insight. The role luck plays in our lives, as individuals, as nations, is a reality we will always find hard to bear.
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SubscribeThe more of these hits pieces I see pop up all across the more I am inclined to see this crusty old champagne socialist as correct that he is a victim of a campaign backed by the lobby. Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.
Yes, why the sudden urge to overthrow him now? The Wall is over forty years old and its theme was fascism. I believe we are living in a time where people assume that by discussing something distasteful then by default you automatically are that something, much like professors who teach nineteenth-century literature and are then branded as racist when reading out the n-word from a Twain novel.
“Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.”
When The Wall came out there was an actual wall keeping people locked into totalitarian states. Now the shrillest, most totalitarian voices come from the Waters-aligned wing of the Labour Party. The irony would be sweet if it weren’t so bitter.
Wright? Richard Wright? Where’s the disclaimer that you’re Waters’ old band mate? Full disclosure, etc. And being dead’s no excuse.
Yes I largely agree and believe his intention is to criticise Israel’s foreign policy, but floating a large inflatable pig with a star of david on it during concerts? What the hell was he thinking? He should have chosen a symbol evocative of those policies (like some army sign?) not one that’s been used to represent Jews as a race..
I guess you missed the part about antisemitism.
Instead of worrying why so many people experess anti-Semitic sentinents–and many do–it will be incumbent upon the Jews to ask the question why this phenomenon persists. As Freud said, there is no effect without a cause. What is causing this perpetual pandemic?
They’re a convenient scapegoat. I suspect most people don’t even know why they’re antisemetic.
A certain part of the middle class like to blame some group for their under achievement according to their exalted opinion of their abilities and worth to society.
They’re a convenient scapegoat. I suspect most people don’t even know why they’re antisemetic.
A certain part of the middle class like to blame some group for their under achievement according to their exalted opinion of their abilities and worth to society.
Instead of worrying why so many people experess anti-Semitic sentinents–and many do–it will be incumbent upon the Jews to ask the question why this phenomenon persists. As Freud said, there is no effect without a cause. What is causing this perpetual pandemic?
We didn’t say or do anything to discourage Waters’ weirdness because we did not know better, and we did not know him better.
I loathe it when rock artists like Bono or Waters’ friend “Have a Cigar “Roy Harper hold forth on self righteous politics, and mistake undying fan love as vindication. And Waters definitely has elements of this. But on the Wall, the character who becomes the fascist in In the Flesh part 2 is loathsome precisely because he picks on Jews and black people dismissing them as “riff raff into the room”. This is surely a character who stands in sharp contrast to everything Waters is aiming at, which is one who ends up without barriers to others; who has teared down the wall.
Yes, why the sudden urge to overthrow him now? The Wall is over forty years old and its theme was fascism. I believe we are living in a time where people assume that by discussing something distasteful then by default you automatically are that something, much like professors who teach nineteenth-century literature and are then branded as racist when reading out the n-word from a Twain novel.
“Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.”
When The Wall came out there was an actual wall keeping people locked into totalitarian states. Now the shrillest, most totalitarian voices come from the Waters-aligned wing of the Labour Party. The irony would be sweet if it weren’t so bitter.
Wright? Richard Wright? Where’s the disclaimer that you’re Waters’ old band mate? Full disclosure, etc. And being dead’s no excuse.
Yes I largely agree and believe his intention is to criticise Israel’s foreign policy, but floating a large inflatable pig with a star of david on it during concerts? What the hell was he thinking? He should have chosen a symbol evocative of those policies (like some army sign?) not one that’s been used to represent Jews as a race..
I guess you missed the part about antisemitism.
We didn’t say or do anything to discourage Waters’ weirdness because we did not know better, and we did not know him better.
I loathe it when rock artists like Bono or Waters’ friend “Have a Cigar “Roy Harper hold forth on self righteous politics, and mistake undying fan love as vindication. And Waters definitely has elements of this. But on the Wall, the character who becomes the fascist in In the Flesh part 2 is loathsome precisely because he picks on Jews and black people dismissing them as “riff raff into the room”. This is surely a character who stands in sharp contrast to everything Waters is aiming at, which is one who ends up without barriers to others; who has teared down the wall.
The more of these hits pieces I see pop up all across the more I am inclined to see this crusty old champagne socialist as correct that he is a victim of a campaign backed by the lobby. Nobody whined when The Wall came out over four decades ago and Waters was mocking the extreme right in movie form.
Roger Waters illustrates the truth of the Horseshoe Theory. Communism really is fascism. It’s that simple.
Nothing is that simple. With the possible exception of you, Dickie.
Where have you been “Thorax”? We’ve missed you.
It really is that simple. Just like you, Rubber.
Look. Rubber. Roger Walters is avowedly of the Corbynite left. He’s also an anti-semite, as you yourself rightly say in another comment. I’m sure you will agree on these two things:-
(i) The Corbynite left, where not avowedly communist as some of it is, shares affinities with and has sympathies for communism;
(ii) Anti-semitism is to say the least a significant marker of the presence of fascism.
I think it’s also safe to say, Rubber, that Roger Waters is merely an exemplar, and that his left-wing fascism is pervasive throughout a significant minority if not the majority of the Corbynite left.
So if your accusation is merely one of hyperbole or guilt by association, or imprecision, guilty as charged, Rubber. I just happen to think that “communism is fascism” captures the underlying essence of the matter, even if I could have put the matter more precisely, e.g. “Roger Waters typifies the fascism of the Corbynite left”.
Where have you been “Thorax”? We’ve missed you.
It really is that simple. Just like you, Rubber.
Look. Rubber. Roger Walters is avowedly of the Corbynite left. He’s also an anti-semite, as you yourself rightly say in another comment. I’m sure you will agree on these two things:-
(i) The Corbynite left, where not avowedly communist as some of it is, shares affinities with and has sympathies for communism;
(ii) Anti-semitism is to say the least a significant marker of the presence of fascism.
I think it’s also safe to say, Rubber, that Roger Waters is merely an exemplar, and that his left-wing fascism is pervasive throughout a significant minority if not the majority of the Corbynite left.
So if your accusation is merely one of hyperbole or guilt by association, or imprecision, guilty as charged, Rubber. I just happen to think that “communism is fascism” captures the underlying essence of the matter, even if I could have put the matter more precisely, e.g. “Roger Waters typifies the fascism of the Corbynite left”.
Nothing is that simple. With the possible exception of you, Dickie.
Roger Waters illustrates the truth of the Horseshoe Theory. Communism really is fascism. It’s that simple.
There are a number of heavy claims in this item about what Waters thinks, but they aren’t linked to any source material. Yes, this certainly comes off as a hit piece. UnHerd can do better.
There are a number of heavy claims in this item about what Waters thinks, but they aren’t linked to any source material. Yes, this certainly comes off as a hit piece. UnHerd can do better.
Oh great, Unherd has started publishing hit-pieces from nobodies on musicians who hold unpopular opinions. Guess it’s time to reconsider my subscription.
Thank you for expressing your opinion freely. I disagree. RW does not hold unpopular opinions he uses his platform to scream hatred based on total falsehoods. He is a sworn enemy of truth and peace. RW is screaming “fire” in crowded theatres. Jew hatred is a real thing. His tirades embolden and encourage attacks on Jews. Fact.
Separating the artist from his views does not apply here as they are one and the same thing. This article deserves its place in Unherd. It reports clearly how RW uses the platform his music has given him and the varied reactions of those who are not sickened enough by his bile spewing to adulate his performance.
It is fascinating to read the justifications the acolytes give for continuing to give his vile platform support.
You (and a few others) seem to have difficulty distinguishing attitudes to jews and zionism
Opposing the actions (not the existence) of the state of Israel and supporting the rights of Palestinians to their own homeland does not make one an anti-semite. Many do indeed seem to have difficulty distinguishing these two notions.
Opposing the actions (not the existence) of the state of Israel and supporting the rights of Palestinians to their own homeland does not make one an anti-semite. Many do indeed seem to have difficulty distinguishing these two notions.
Certainly agree with these well-stated views. Waters’ right to scream his opposition to Israel’s policies and actions towards the Palestinians is a given but calling into question that country’s right to exist — as he does — must be roundly condemned. As said, such tirades assuredly encourage attacks on Jews.
You (and a few others) seem to have difficulty distinguishing attitudes to jews and zionism
Certainly agree with these well-stated views. Waters’ right to scream his opposition to Israel’s policies and actions towards the Palestinians is a given but calling into question that country’s right to exist — as he does — must be roundly condemned. As said, such tirades assuredly encourage attacks on Jews.
See ya.
Bye, Bye.
Thank you for expressing your opinion freely. I disagree. RW does not hold unpopular opinions he uses his platform to scream hatred based on total falsehoods. He is a sworn enemy of truth and peace. RW is screaming “fire” in crowded theatres. Jew hatred is a real thing. His tirades embolden and encourage attacks on Jews. Fact.
Separating the artist from his views does not apply here as they are one and the same thing. This article deserves its place in Unherd. It reports clearly how RW uses the platform his music has given him and the varied reactions of those who are not sickened enough by his bile spewing to adulate his performance.
It is fascinating to read the justifications the acolytes give for continuing to give his vile platform support.
See ya.
Bye, Bye.
Oh great, Unherd has started publishing hit-pieces from nobodies on musicians who hold unpopular opinions. Guess it’s time to reconsider my subscription.
It’s becoming increasingly clear that protest is under attack and being labelled as an anti semite is par for the course.
I have attended Roger’s concerts for decades including This Is Not A Drill last year and I simply do not understand what this woman is saying. Of course he is opinionated, it’s who he is and his audience understands this but anti semitic because he is passionate about the plight of ordinary, powerless Palestinians!! It’s become an easy slur to lob at anyone.
No, antisemitic because he loves conspiracy theories about Jewish cabals controlling the world. 5hays pretty much the definition of antisemitism.
You may be a stopped clock, Rubber, but once a day your time comes round to get something right, and once in a blue moon you actually seize the opportunity. It is like the flower in the desert, which blooms one morning every century.
You may be a stopped clock, Rubber, but once a day your time comes round to get something right, and once in a blue moon you actually seize the opportunity. It is like the flower in the desert, which blooms one morning every century.
No, antisemitic because he loves conspiracy theories about Jewish cabals controlling the world. 5hays pretty much the definition of antisemitism.
It’s becoming increasingly clear that protest is under attack and being labelled as an anti semite is par for the course.
I have attended Roger’s concerts for decades including This Is Not A Drill last year and I simply do not understand what this woman is saying. Of course he is opinionated, it’s who he is and his audience understands this but anti semitic because he is passionate about the plight of ordinary, powerless Palestinians!! It’s become an easy slur to lob at anyone.
You know our days are numbered when even mega-rich rock stars brandish bogus victim credentials.
I haven’t listened to Roger’s music that he’s made since he left Floyd (and tried to prevent those he’d left behind from continuing). It may well be that I’ve missed a treat, but there’s lots of great music that I’m still discovering, so I’ll probably survive.
While I don’t mind what a performer’s views are, I can’t help thinking it better to let the songs do the talking and save the sloganeering for when you’re having a drink with indulgent friends.
Whilst being entitled to their views, the idea that musicians are any more politically savvy than anyone else is ridiculous. The MSM pander to their views because they’re famous, but anyone who’d be influenced by them is a halfwit.
The most egregious example is, of course, Bono, friend of popes and invited to the WEF. FFS
And Kanye West.
And Kanye West.
Whilst being entitled to their views, the idea that musicians are any more politically savvy than anyone else is ridiculous. The MSM pander to their views because they’re famous, but anyone who’d be influenced by them is a halfwit.
The most egregious example is, of course, Bono, friend of popes and invited to the WEF. FFS
I haven’t listened to Roger’s music that he’s made since he left Floyd (and tried to prevent those he’d left behind from continuing). It may well be that I’ve missed a treat, but there’s lots of great music that I’m still discovering, so I’ll probably survive.
While I don’t mind what a performer’s views are, I can’t help thinking it better to let the songs do the talking and save the sloganeering for when you’re having a drink with indulgent friends.
You know our days are numbered when even mega-rich rock stars brandish bogus victim credentials.
“Few fans willing to discuss his antisemitism”.
I have few fans willing to discuss my participation in the Rwanda genocide.
I guess this article is a consequence of commitment to free speech, but I find it hard to accept that @TanyaGold1 is a useful contributor.
“Few fans willing to discuss his antisemitism”.
I have few fans willing to discuss my participation in the Rwanda genocide.
I guess this article is a consequence of commitment to free speech, but I find it hard to accept that @TanyaGold1 is a useful contributor.
Cancellation (targeted de-platforming, ostracization, and boycotting, often using threats and violence, for ‘unorthodox’ or ‘controversial’ beliefs) – whether they’re left wing or right wing – is real, and it is a problem. But ranting like a paranoid schizophrenic about how you’re being ‘cancelled’ while performing at the O2 arena, one of Britain’s largest concert venues, and have a steady income from your millions of fans and listeners worldwide takes the mick a bit.
People opposing your beliefs does not inherently amount to cancellation, and since Israel is an extremely controversial topic, and Waters makes a conscious effort to go about the matter in a very brash way, there will of course be opposition – he’s a shock jock after all. Whether this opposition has a point or not is another matter, but this does not amount to a worldwide conspiracy to unperson him.
Perhaps we should have seen it coming that the ultra-successful would eventually co-opt the term to make it look like there’s a conspiracy against them when confronted with any opposition.
Cancellation (targeted de-platforming, ostracization, and boycotting, often using threats and violence, for ‘unorthodox’ or ‘controversial’ beliefs) – whether they’re left wing or right wing – is real, and it is a problem. But ranting like a paranoid schizophrenic about how you’re being ‘cancelled’ while performing at the O2 arena, one of Britain’s largest concert venues, and have a steady income from your millions of fans and listeners worldwide takes the mick a bit.
People opposing your beliefs does not inherently amount to cancellation, and since Israel is an extremely controversial topic, and Waters makes a conscious effort to go about the matter in a very brash way, there will of course be opposition – he’s a shock jock after all. Whether this opposition has a point or not is another matter, but this does not amount to a worldwide conspiracy to unperson him.
Perhaps we should have seen it coming that the ultra-successful would eventually co-opt the term to make it look like there’s a conspiracy against them when confronted with any opposition.
“I’m not sure how many Corbynites can afford the O2”
Really? Tanya has a tendency to be a bit snide.
A bit?
A bit?
“I’m not sure how many Corbynites can afford the O2”
Really? Tanya has a tendency to be a bit snide.
Everything is anti-Semite if you question anything! Trying call him a conspiracist, racist, this only happens when either the journalist is a young inexperienced uni grad, or when there is truth and the establishment need to try and push people down. I was at this show and I can tell you most of this article is utter nonsense! This guy is questioning strong and powerful governments, trying to better the lives of those who cannot speak! So easy to put slur on his character, but the real racist is the journalist who completely ignores Palestinian plight to be free and free humanly.
Everything is anti-Semite if you question anything! Trying call him a conspiracist, racist, this only happens when either the journalist is a young inexperienced uni grad, or when there is truth and the establishment need to try and push people down. I was at this show and I can tell you most of this article is utter nonsense! This guy is questioning strong and powerful governments, trying to better the lives of those who cannot speak! So easy to put slur on his character, but the real racist is the journalist who completely ignores Palestinian plight to be free and free humanly.
Something always worth remembering about Roger Waters and his followers. When “Rare protests erupt[ed] against Hamas’ 12-year rule over Gaza,” the theme of the protests was “I want to live with dignity.”
That was March 19th, 2019.
Roger Waters and Jeremy Corbyn maintained a stoic silence that day, not so much as mentioning the Palestinians again until after Gaza’s rulers had brutalized the peaceful protesters back into submission.
Something always worth remembering about Roger Waters and his followers. When “Rare protests erupt[ed] against Hamas’ 12-year rule over Gaza,” the theme of the protests was “I want to live with dignity.”
That was March 19th, 2019.
Roger Waters and Jeremy Corbyn maintained a stoic silence that day, not so much as mentioning the Palestinians again until after Gaza’s rulers had brutalized the peaceful protesters back into submission.
The insane defenestration of Roger Waters is a good example of the Right using the tactics of the Woke to cancel a dissenter.
Roger Waters is a socialist who supports the Palestinians, BDS movement, and Jeremy Corbyn. He is against fascism and all other forms of tyranny, the policies of the current Israeli government and most importantly the war in Ukraine. This does not make him an antisemite but the people who are against the things he is for must call him one to silence him. It is so much easier to just cancel someone than engage with their ideas and allow debate. It is easier to convince yourself that he mustn’t be allowed to express his ideas because people might start agreeing with him. He is a famous rock star, and he might influence people. He must be stopped.
So, use guilt by association and ridiculous distortions of his ideas, gin up hysterical outrage and every time he says Israel substitute Jew to turn him into a villain. Then you don’t have to talk about the occupation of the West Bank, the war in Ukraine and the devastation that neo-liberalism has wrought.
There is no difference between what supporters of Israel are doing to Roger Waters and what trans-activist have done to JK Rowling.
Ideas, Woke or otherwise, aren’t the problem, the stifling of debate and suppression of dissent is.
There’s a contradiction there in your description of Waters’ views: history has shown that being a socialist is supporting tyranny. State control of commerce/finance/industry, which is what socialism is, necessarily involves tyranny. One can be deluded, call oneself a “socialist” and fancy that one is opposed to all forms of tyranny, but that is a delusion. Perhaps Waters suffers from this delusion, perhaps not, but objectively, if he’s a socialist, he supports tyranny.
He definitely suffers from this delusion
He definitely suffers from this delusion
There’s a contradiction there in your description of Waters’ views: history has shown that being a socialist is supporting tyranny. State control of commerce/finance/industry, which is what socialism is, necessarily involves tyranny. One can be deluded, call oneself a “socialist” and fancy that one is opposed to all forms of tyranny, but that is a delusion. Perhaps Waters suffers from this delusion, perhaps not, but objectively, if he’s a socialist, he supports tyranny.
The insane defenestration of Roger Waters is a good example of the Right using the tactics of the Woke to cancel a dissenter.
Roger Waters is a socialist who supports the Palestinians, BDS movement, and Jeremy Corbyn. He is against fascism and all other forms of tyranny, the policies of the current Israeli government and most importantly the war in Ukraine. This does not make him an antisemite but the people who are against the things he is for must call him one to silence him. It is so much easier to just cancel someone than engage with their ideas and allow debate. It is easier to convince yourself that he mustn’t be allowed to express his ideas because people might start agreeing with him. He is a famous rock star, and he might influence people. He must be stopped.
So, use guilt by association and ridiculous distortions of his ideas, gin up hysterical outrage and every time he says Israel substitute Jew to turn him into a villain. Then you don’t have to talk about the occupation of the West Bank, the war in Ukraine and the devastation that neo-liberalism has wrought.
There is no difference between what supporters of Israel are doing to Roger Waters and what trans-activist have done to JK Rowling.
Ideas, Woke or otherwise, aren’t the problem, the stifling of debate and suppression of dissent is.
I saw Waters’ Radio KAOS tour back in ‘80 something. See, I was really there .
And he went into an onstage political diatribe of some sort back then as well. Such behavior has always been his weakness.
We do well to remember this is the man who spit on a heckler during a Montreal show; which was the genesis of The Wall. His story, not mine. The man comes as advertised: great artist; and surely a bit of a moron.
I saw Waters’ Radio KAOS tour back in ‘80 something. See, I was really there .
And he went into an onstage political diatribe of some sort back then as well. Such behavior has always been his weakness.
We do well to remember this is the man who spit on a heckler during a Montreal show; which was the genesis of The Wall. His story, not mine. The man comes as advertised: great artist; and surely a bit of a moron.
Roger Waters didn’t like his own band, despite it being one of the greatest of the 20th century, and it’s members being, by most accounts, thoroughly decent people.
Roger Waters didn’t like his own band, despite it being one of the greatest of the 20th century, and it’s members being, by most accounts, thoroughly decent people.
The increasing insanity of Zionist propaganda is, hopefully, a harbinger of its demise.
The increasing insanity of Zionist propaganda is, hopefully, a harbinger of its demise.
“To inhabit something, to impersonate it, is to control it.”
Great definition of men cosplaying womanhood.
Brilliant observation.
Brilliant observation.
“To inhabit something, to impersonate it, is to control it.”
Great definition of men cosplaying womanhood.
“Waters believes that a Jewish conspiracy overthrew Jeremy Corbyn, fixed the result of the 2019 general election, and controls Keir Starmer”
Can the writer at least provide the evidence or source of the evidence for such a sweeping generalised statement?
“Waters believes that a Jewish conspiracy overthrew Jeremy Corbyn, fixed the result of the 2019 general election, and controls Keir Starmer”
Can the writer at least provide the evidence or source of the evidence for such a sweeping generalised statement?
Lolz was this comment thread curated by the BDS, PLO, or both. Roger Waters is a very talented multimillionaire t**t who unfortunately indulges in 19th Century Protocols of the Elders of Zion conspiracy thinking. As for Palestinians, they did not exist as the modern construct “Palestinians” in ‘48 when the war their leaders continue to perpetuate was first lost; and their biggest problem is not the only functional democracy in that region and the repeated invitations to become part of it or create their own, but continuing to choose to be the puppets of Iranian and Arab instigators whose stated primary goal is genocide of all the Jews so they can take all that’s been built.
Lolz was this comment thread curated by the BDS, PLO, or both. Roger Waters is a very talented multimillionaire t**t who unfortunately indulges in 19th Century Protocols of the Elders of Zion conspiracy thinking. As for Palestinians, they did not exist as the modern construct “Palestinians” in ‘48 when the war their leaders continue to perpetuate was first lost; and their biggest problem is not the only functional democracy in that region and the repeated invitations to become part of it or create their own, but continuing to choose to be the puppets of Iranian and Arab instigators whose stated primary goal is genocide of all the Jews so they can take all that’s been built.
I’ve long suspected his anti-semitism has something to do with his hatred of David Gilmour. It has become increasingly intense since Gilmour married Polly Samson.
As for the plodding and over-portentous music well, OK, if you like that sort of thing. But Donald Fagen he ain’t.
I’ve long suspected his anti-semitism has something to do with his hatred of David Gilmour. It has become increasingly intense since Gilmour married Polly Samson.
As for the plodding and over-portentous music well, OK, if you like that sort of thing. But Donald Fagen he ain’t.
A scattershot disparagement by Gold that shows Waters in a prevailingly cloudy-to-dim overall light. I admit I’m inclined to extend more latitude to an musician whose work I admire–as I do Waters and Pink Floyd–but I don’t think this ranting while claiming cancellation is a good act. Suffering some professional consequences for running your mouth too freely is not cancellation.
The outlook expressed in the lyrics of Roger Waters has always had brooding, even dystopian overtones. But he can’t expect much charity from his targets and detractors when he takes such denunciatory, extreme stances on Israel, etc. He’s doing ok for a 79-year-old rock act, but I think he’d be doing better for himself and the world if he kept more of his beliefs and feelings in musical form instead of turning shows partly into public rants about how he’s being silenced. Then again, that kind of old man versus the wicked world ranting–not totally distinct in tone from his younger act–may be gaining him a whole new audience, even as others distance themselves from the dark spectacle.
A scattershot disparagement by Gold that shows Waters in a prevailingly cloudy-to-dim overall light. I admit I’m inclined to extend more latitude to an musician whose work I admire–as I do Waters and Pink Floyd–but I don’t think this ranting while claiming cancellation is a good act. Suffering some professional consequences for running your mouth too freely is not cancellation.
The outlook expressed in the lyrics of Roger Waters has always had brooding, even dystopian overtones. But he can’t expect much charity from his targets and detractors when he takes such denunciatory, extreme stances on Israel, etc. He’s doing ok for a 79-year-old rock act, but I think he’d be doing better for himself and the world if he kept more of his beliefs and feelings in musical form instead of turning shows partly into public rants about how he’s being silenced. Then again, that kind of old man versus the wicked world ranting–not totally distinct in tone from his younger act–may be gaining him a whole new audience, even as others distance themselves from the dark spectacle.
“These cries have snowballed: the US government and Keir Starmer have pointed out Waters’s antisemitism.”
Well snowflakes at times can build up to snowballs!
“These cries have snowballed: the US government and Keir Starmer have pointed out Waters’s antisemitism.”
Well snowflakes at times can build up to snowballs!
Waters sounds like an old crank, a Rob Reiner spewing Meatheadisms on Twitter. But this article is nearly incoherent. What on Earth is meant by “Sylvia Plath’s “Daddy” for a 79-year-old rock star.” Is “Daddy” supposed to be a verb? The entire article reads like stream of consciousness with a dash of schizophrenia and Adderall.
I think she’s claiming that Waters’s “parodic fascism” is to him as Plath’s poem “Daddy” is to its author. Personally, I was more put off by Tanya Gold referring to her subject as “Rogers” twice in the first paragraph. :¬D
Re Tanya Gold – you can take the ‘journalist’ out of the Guardian but you can’t take the Guardian out of the ‘journalist’. Unherd can surely do better than this.
I think she’s claiming that Waters’s “parodic fascism” is to him as Plath’s poem “Daddy” is to its author. Personally, I was more put off by Tanya Gold referring to her subject as “Rogers” twice in the first paragraph. :¬D
Re Tanya Gold – you can take the ‘journalist’ out of the Guardian but you can’t take the Guardian out of the ‘journalist’. Unherd can surely do better than this.
Waters sounds like an old crank, a Rob Reiner spewing Meatheadisms on Twitter. But this article is nearly incoherent. What on Earth is meant by “Sylvia Plath’s “Daddy” for a 79-year-old rock star.” Is “Daddy” supposed to be a verb? The entire article reads like stream of consciousness with a dash of schizophrenia and Adderall.
Did not the author write a piece defending Woody Allen a while ago?
Poor Woody Allen has been attacked by anti Semites for years now
Poor Woody Allen has been attacked by anti Semites for years now
Did not the author write a piece defending Woody Allen a while ago?
As his psychoanalyst, you shouldn’t be disclosing this confidential stuff in an open journal, Tanya.
As his psychoanalyst, you shouldn’t be disclosing this confidential stuff in an open journal, Tanya.
You know, the first cancel culture heresy-level whisper campaign I ever intuited was by the Israeli lobby, 20 years ago. You weren’t allowed to criticize anything about Israel’s policies for fear of being morally responsible for the Holocaust. First time I read the slur of “self-hating Jew.” I heard plenty of thinly veiled racism at the time, without the gasping of sacrilege. But God forbid you suggest that “hurt people, hurt people,” that the Palestinians didn’t have anything to do with the Holocaust, that Germany should have given Bavaria to the Israel state, and that the Allies handing over the 1900-year-old lands of Palestinians to all Jews as penance for German atrocities was the grossest act of colonialist presumption.
As w/ critiques of contemporary anti-racism, I read the work of Black scholars as a check on my biases, as I’ve read the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews who likewise are concerned about Zionist policies & the power of The Lobby. To treat any group as sacrosanct is to dehumanize them by another name. I refuse to do it, and thank God I stand w/ the many Jewish authors & activists who feel the same.
Who is this “You” that wasn’t allowed to criticise anything about Israel’s policies? Criticism of Israel, Zionism and Jewish influence in general has been going for decades regardless of accusations about Holocaust responsibility. Criticism of Palestinians though – now that looks like a real taboo area (for the Left in particular). Are they sacrosanct or do they just have ordinary run-of-the-mill victim status? Incidentally, I note that the “dehumanise” charge is often made by opponents of affirmative action with regard to blacks.
I gather from your tone that you are so well informed that we must not dare contradict you – but anyway: those black scholars you read and “the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews”– could you be taking on board their biases?
Black scholars have no biases . And surely it’s racist to suggest otherwise .
There are many decent and upstanding black scholars, whom it is saddening to see traduced by the open and explicit racism of so-called “Black scholars”.
There are many decent and upstanding black scholars, whom it is saddening to see traduced by the open and explicit racism of so-called “Black scholars”.
He also capitalises “black”, so he’s obviously a woke racist. Thanks for dealing with this.
Black scholars have no biases . And surely it’s racist to suggest otherwise .
He also capitalises “black”, so he’s obviously a woke racist. Thanks for dealing with this.
Who is this “You” that wasn’t allowed to criticise anything about Israel’s policies? Criticism of Israel, Zionism and Jewish influence in general has been going for decades regardless of accusations about Holocaust responsibility. Criticism of Palestinians though – now that looks like a real taboo area (for the Left in particular). Are they sacrosanct or do they just have ordinary run-of-the-mill victim status? Incidentally, I note that the “dehumanise” charge is often made by opponents of affirmative action with regard to blacks.
I gather from your tone that you are so well informed that we must not dare contradict you – but anyway: those black scholars you read and “the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews”– could you be taking on board their biases?
You know, the first cancel culture heresy-level whisper campaign I ever intuited was by the Israeli lobby, 20 years ago. You weren’t allowed to criticize anything about Israel’s policies for fear of being morally responsible for the Holocaust. First time I read the slur of “self-hating Jew.” I heard plenty of thinly veiled racism at the time, without the gasping of sacrilege. But God forbid you suggest that “hurt people, hurt people,” that the Palestinians didn’t have anything to do with the Holocaust, that Germany should have given Bavaria to the Israel state, and that the Allies handing over the 1900-year-old lands of Palestinians to all Jews as penance for German atrocities was the grossest act of colonialist presumption.
As w/ critiques of contemporary anti-racism, I read the work of Black scholars as a check on my biases, as I’ve read the work & data reflecting hundreds of thousands of Jews who likewise are concerned about Zionist policies & the power of The Lobby. To treat any group as sacrosanct is to dehumanize them by another name. I refuse to do it, and thank God I stand w/ the many Jewish authors & activists who feel the same.
““If you are one of those ‘I love Pink Floyd but I don’t like Roger’s politics’ people,” says an announcer, “you might do well to f**k off to the bar.” But they don’t.”
Probably just as well: there’d be few people left…
““If you are one of those ‘I love Pink Floyd but I don’t like Roger’s politics’ people,” says an announcer, “you might do well to f**k off to the bar.” But they don’t.”
Probably just as well: there’d be few people left…
I blame Syd Barrett…
I blame Syd Barrett…
Thank you Tanya, for this very good, balanced piece. Clearly Waters has a lot of loyal devotees who won’t hear a word said against him, but that is no justification for his repulsive views.
Thank you Tanya, for this very good, balanced piece. Clearly Waters has a lot of loyal devotees who won’t hear a word said against him, but that is no justification for his repulsive views.
Oh
Oh
Self-inflated commenters responding to this piece as if they were the subject of the piece and not Waters … triggered when someone mentions a whiff of antisemitism, convinced it couldn’t *possibly* apply to them.
Self-inflated commenters responding to this piece as if they were the subject of the piece and not Waters … triggered when someone mentions a whiff of antisemitism, convinced it couldn’t *possibly* apply to them.
So ya
Thought ya
Might like to
Go to the show.
To feel that warm thrill of confusion,
That space cadet glow.
I’ve got some bad news for you sunshine,
Pink isn’t well, he stayed back at the hotel
And they sent us along as a surrogate band
We’re gonna find out where you fans* really stand.
Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
Get them up against the wall!
There’s one in the spotlight, he don’t look right to me,
Get him up against the wall!
That one looks Jewish!
And that one’s a c**n!
Who let all of this riff-raff into the room?
There’s one smoking a joint,
And another with spots!
If I had my way,
I’d have all of you shot!
So ya
Thought ya
Might like to
Go to the show.
To feel that warm thrill of confusion,
That space cadet glow.
I’ve got some bad news for you sunshine,
Pink isn’t well, he stayed back at the hotel
And they sent us along as a surrogate band
We’re gonna find out where you fans* really stand.
Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
Get them up against the wall!
There’s one in the spotlight, he don’t look right to me,
Get him up against the wall!
That one looks Jewish!
And that one’s a c**n!
Who let all of this riff-raff into the room?
There’s one smoking a joint,
And another with spots!
If I had my way,
I’d have all of you shot!
I met Waters via his charming mother in law at the time Lady Jean Christie, some years ago: seemed alright if a tad dull…
I met Waters via his charming mother in law at the time Lady Jean Christie, some years ago: seemed alright if a tad dull…
Tanya Gold told lies about Corbyn and now she is telling lies about Waters.
Communism is fascism. Get over it.
Communism is fascism. Get over it.
Tanya Gold told lies about Corbyn and now she is telling lies about Waters.
Nobody cared what Roger Waters said until he questioned the official Russia – Ukraine narrative. Odd that.
Nobody cared what Roger Waters said until he questioned the official Russia – Ukraine narrative. Odd that.
You’ve lost the room, Tanya. It is no longer about bogus claims of anti-Semitism; the EHRC found all of two specific examples in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party, and both of those are subject to judicial review. It is now about mostly bogus threats to free speech; nothing gets you a platform like being deplatformed. So Professor Arif Ahmed’s non-subscription to the IHRA Definition is seen as a positive advantage in the new Free Speech Tsar. Similarly, even The Times and the Daily Telegraph have given rave reviews to Roger Waters. The world moves on. Tanya Gold is a creature out of time.
You have the same name as a gentleman who served a prison sentence for malicious communication and perverting the course of justice. Would you care to comment?
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19262308.blogger-jailed-repeated-online-harassment/
You have the same name as a gentleman who served a prison sentence for malicious communication and perverting the course of justice. Would you care to comment?
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19262308.blogger-jailed-repeated-online-harassment/
You’ve lost the room, Tanya. It is no longer about bogus claims of anti-Semitism; the EHRC found all of two specific examples in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party, and both of those are subject to judicial review. It is now about mostly bogus threats to free speech; nothing gets you a platform like being deplatformed. So Professor Arif Ahmed’s non-subscription to the IHRA Definition is seen as a positive advantage in the new Free Speech Tsar. Similarly, even The Times and the Daily Telegraph have given rave reviews to Roger Waters. The world moves on. Tanya Gold is a creature out of time.
Enough anti semites on the comments below. Corbynites too probably.
Enough anti semites on the comments below. Corbynites too probably.
People who make waves inevitably attract attention. However Roger has got it wrong, I say – the state of jewish protectionism has got well out of hand and merits the resistance given !
People who make waves inevitably attract attention. However Roger has got it wrong, I say – the state of jewish protectionism has got well out of hand and merits the resistance given !