Not sure this is exclusive to Harry Potter. It seems most children’s books take a binary view of morality. This might be because children can learn what is wrong , before their rationing abilities have been developed. I think if you tried to teach children ethical complexities, before they can fully think for themselves, it could do more harm than good. And agree that adults need to learn the nuances; perhaps read some books made for adults?
You really are pompous. Your view seems to be that most people don’t read the books that you find interesting, informative or well-written. Some people like escapist fiction, some prefer romantic novels and some will read all Booker prize nominees. There may even be some who meet your exacting literary tastes. Don’t judge people on what they read. It says more about you than it does about them.
Actually, among my reading this yeas has been quite a lot of popular or escapist stuff: three of Lee Child’s Jack Reacher books; various football biographies and autobiographies; a Neil Gaiman collection; popular/romantic novels by Arto Paasilinua and Edna O’Brien. Hell, I even read ‘Toujours Provence’ by Peter Mayle. You can’t really sink much lower than that.
Oh believe me you can. Many books being awarded prizes these days because they are “Different” are absolute garbage. I’ll take Mayle over them any day.
More to the point I think is that so many really are incapable of reading something as complicated as a book for an adult audience. Not as you seem to infer that the question is what is to be considered as “adult”.
Well, C S Lewis achieved it in his final book in the Narnia series: The Last Battle. At the very end – the end of the Narnian world, literally – Aslan sorts those who will join him in his own country, and those who will not. A binary choice between the good and the evil drawing on Christian apocalyptic literature. However, when it comes to the young Calormene devoted to his demon-god Tash, Aslan does not relegate him to post-Narnian blackness but draws him into his own country (and forgive the long quote but I can do no better):
“Not because [Tash] and I are one, but because we are opposites, I take to me the services which thou has done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath’s sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan it is Tash who he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted.”
This little dissertation on the nuances of binaries is in a little Puffin children’s book with a largish type face.
You are right. I think The Last Battle and the Great Divorce represent at his best. One of my offspring started at Magdalene this year. The CU there, in non Covid times, still meet in his office.
Unless, of course, the reference is to the period 1954-1963 when Lewis was Professor of Mediaeval and Renaissance Literature and a fellow of Magdalene College.
Gawd, don’t you start! The Pale Blue one has an e, the other place is lacking. I still pronounce it incorrectly 9 times out of 10 though and don’t I know it. Merry Christmas all.
Did he achieve it? I remember reading such passages at school – the chronicles as set books – and I didnt have the foggiest what they meant. The books were about good over bad with a bit of mercy thrown in. As an adult I can easily identify the ‘nuances of bineries’ and now see the books for what they were. Lewis was an evangelical Christian absolutist, trying eg to explain and justify why his god required and, so, allowed pain in man (he found the justification of pain in animals a little more tricky). So naturally took to the platform of fiction for children as a vehicle to bring young readers to his god. To that extent the books held a binary morality good over bad. if any child could go further and follow his reasoning, so much the better.
The Last Battle is the most difficult of the Narnia chronicles, not least because of the platonist philosophy. It was the platonism I didn’t understand as a child, but it haunted me well into adulthood and directed my reading until I did understand.
That’s the sign of a good children’s book – the ability to seed difficult ideas that can bloom in maturity. I missed many of the Christian allusions on first reading because my upbringing was Jewish. But in his essays CSL wrote about being ‘haunted’ by something more and Narnia has haunted me since I first picked up Prince Caspian at age ten. I can truly say – and I hope I’m not being cheesy – that CSL has accompanied me both philosophically and religously on my life’s journey,
I feel like Seuss took a nuanced approach to morality.
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago
Well, yes, and I’ve been saying this for some years. I was an already an adult when the first Harry Potter book was published so I have never read any of them. However, it has long seems to me that they are at least partly responsible for the misguided tyranny of the woke SJW movement.
They are worth reading as an adult, derivative yes, but increasingly sophisticated in their presentation of some characters and the series thus just right for children approaching adulthood, and the later ones for adults who like interesting characters. And you need to whip through the early ones so as to see the merit of the later ones.
I think I’ll stick to the likes of Anna Burns, Dostoevsky, Scruton and Robert Skidelsky if it’s alright with you.
K Sheedy
3 years ago
Yes they should grow up. But Slytherins are not evil per se. They are ambitious and inclined to a world view that “the end justifies the means”. So they will join the attack on JK Rowling as a device to make the whole world trans. JK is just collateral damage.. ps. this is supposed to be lighthearted 🙂
Charles Rense
3 years ago
40? How? According to Google the first book was published in 97. Maybe the character would be 40? Only if he was 17 in the first book.
Yes, I was somewhat perplexed by that. Whilst being no Potterologist, my understanding was that they were not first published until the mid-to-late 90s.
I notice that you’re not arguing with the truth of the statement here. But thank you for respecting my beliefs and airing your grievances. Did not Frank Costanza once said, “As I rained upon him, I realised there had to be another way!”
I notice that you’re not arguing with the truth of the statement here.
No, I’m making no comment here on its truth value. The first part is believed to be both false and offensive, by many people, Jewish and Christian, and merely false by many more, such as the late Geoffrey Kirk, whose lectures on Myth: Its Meaning and Functions in Ancient and Other Cultures I had the pleasure and privilege of attending in the 1970s. The second part is a somewhat baffling opinion.
Do you have any light to shed on how this comment improves our understanding of the Harry Potter stories?
Peter KE
3 years ago
Rowling’ s should be supported in her stance for free speech the woke anti democratic thugs of the various facist blm, trans groups need condemnation directly and not any tolerance offered.
I’d wager that Rowling would be right there with the gang if the object of the beat down was someone else. Maybe not doing the punching herself, but not standing for the victim either.
Not sure this is exclusive to Harry Potter. It seems most children’s books take a binary view of morality. This might be because children can learn what is wrong , before their rationing abilities have been developed. I think if you tried to teach children ethical complexities, before they can fully think for themselves, it could do more harm than good. And agree that adults need to learn the nuances; perhaps read some books made for adults?
The vast majority – perhaps 95% – of adults are completely incapable of reading books for adults.
So many of our problems relate to the diminishing quality of our educational system.
You really are pompous. Your view seems to be that most people don’t read the books that you find interesting, informative or well-written. Some people like escapist fiction, some prefer romantic novels and some will read all Booker prize nominees. There may even be some who meet your exacting literary tastes. Don’t judge people on what they read. It says more about you than it does about them.
Actually, among my reading this yeas has been quite a lot of popular or escapist stuff: three of Lee Child’s Jack Reacher books; various football biographies and autobiographies; a Neil Gaiman collection; popular/romantic novels by Arto Paasilinua and Edna O’Brien. Hell, I even read ‘Toujours Provence’ by Peter Mayle. You can’t really sink much lower than that.
Oh believe me you can. Many books being awarded prizes these days because they are “Different” are absolute garbage. I’ll take Mayle over them any day.
Whilst we are broadly on the subject, there is a great line from Robert (or is it Robin?) Aitken over at The Spectator today:
‘The BBC’s Christmas schedule is the abattoir of the human spirit.’
More to the point I think is that so many really are incapable of reading something as complicated as a book for an adult audience. Not as you seem to infer that the question is what is to be considered as “adult”.
Well, C S Lewis achieved it in his final book in the Narnia series: The Last Battle. At the very end – the end of the Narnian world, literally – Aslan sorts those who will join him in his own country, and those who will not. A binary choice between the good and the evil drawing on Christian apocalyptic literature. However, when it comes to the young Calormene devoted to his demon-god Tash, Aslan does not relegate him to post-Narnian blackness but draws him into his own country (and forgive the long quote but I can do no better):
“Not because [Tash] and I are one, but because we are opposites, I take to me the services which thou has done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath’s sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan it is Tash who he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted.”
This little dissertation on the nuances of binaries is in a little Puffin children’s book with a largish type face.
You are right. I think The Last Battle and the Great Divorce represent at his best. One of my offspring started at Magdalene this year. The CU there, in non Covid times, still meet in his office.
Magdalen, please. Your offspring may not forgive you.
Unless, of course, the reference is to the period 1954-1963 when Lewis was Professor of Mediaeval and Renaissance Literature and a fellow of Magdalene College.
Gawd, don’t you start! The Pale Blue one has an e, the other place is lacking. I still pronounce it incorrectly 9 times out of 10 though and don’t I know it. Merry Christmas all.
May the spirit of CSL smile upon them!
PS: That Hideous Strength (unabridged) was also amazingly prophetic. It’s my favourite CSL novel for adults.
For some reason, despite ready pretty much everything else of his I’ve not tried That Hideous Strength.
I shall. Hope you have had a good day.
Same to you Tim, and blessings for 2021.
Did he achieve it? I remember reading such passages at school – the chronicles as set books – and I didnt have the foggiest what they meant. The books were about good over bad with a bit of mercy thrown in. As an adult I can easily identify the ‘nuances of bineries’ and now see the books for what they were. Lewis was an evangelical Christian absolutist, trying eg to explain and justify why his god required and, so, allowed pain in man (he found the justification of pain in animals a little more tricky). So naturally took to the platform of fiction for children as a vehicle to bring young readers to his god. To that extent the books held a binary morality good over bad. if any child could go further and follow his reasoning, so much the better.
The Last Battle is the most difficult of the Narnia chronicles, not least because of the platonist philosophy. It was the platonism I didn’t understand as a child, but it haunted me well into adulthood and directed my reading until I did understand.
That’s the sign of a good children’s book – the ability to seed difficult ideas that can bloom in maturity. I missed many of the Christian allusions on first reading because my upbringing was Jewish. But in his essays CSL wrote about being ‘haunted’ by something more and Narnia has haunted me since I first picked up Prince Caspian at age ten. I can truly say – and I hope I’m not being cheesy – that CSL has accompanied me both philosophically and religously on my life’s journey,
I think his essay on the humanitarian theory of punishment still speaks loudly today.
I feel like Seuss took a nuanced approach to morality.
Well, yes, and I’ve been saying this for some years. I was an already an adult when the first Harry Potter book was published so I have never read any of them. However, it has long seems to me that they are at least partly responsible for the misguided tyranny of the woke SJW movement.
And like many a revolutionary, Rowling has been stood up in front of that well-chipped wall by her former comrades and (I hope) refused a blindfold.
They are worth reading as an adult, derivative yes, but increasingly sophisticated in their presentation of some characters and the series thus just right for children approaching adulthood, and the later ones for adults who like interesting characters. And you need to whip through the early ones so as to see the merit of the later ones.
I think I’ll stick to the likes of Anna Burns, Dostoevsky, Scruton and Robert Skidelsky if it’s alright with you.
Yes they should grow up.
But Slytherins are not evil per se. They are ambitious and inclined to a world view that “the end justifies the means”.
So they will join the attack on JK Rowling as a device to make the whole world trans. JK is just collateral damage..
ps. this is supposed to be lighthearted 🙂
40? How? According to Google the first book was published in 97. Maybe the character would be 40? Only if he was 17 in the first book.
Oh, I know: magic!
Yes, I was somewhat perplexed by that. Whilst being no Potterologist, my understanding was that they were not first published until the mid-to-late 90s.
My 28 year old son read the first one when it was originally published, so I don’t get the 40 age for Harry either.
He was born in 1980 in the books. Hence being 40 now
Does this sideswipe at the Jewish and Christian religions add any particular value to the article?
I notice that you’re not arguing with the truth of the statement here. But thank you for respecting my beliefs and airing your grievances. Did not Frank Costanza once said, “As I rained upon him, I realised there had to be another way!”
No, I’m making no comment here on its truth value. The first part is believed to be both false and offensive, by many people, Jewish and Christian, and merely false by many more, such as the late Geoffrey Kirk, whose lectures on Myth: Its Meaning and Functions in Ancient and Other Cultures I had the pleasure and privilege of attending in the 1970s. The second part is a somewhat baffling opinion.
Do you have any light to shed on how this comment improves our understanding of the Harry Potter stories?
Rowling’ s should be supported in her stance for free speech the woke anti democratic thugs of the various facist blm, trans groups need condemnation directly and not any tolerance offered.
I’d wager that Rowling would be right there with the gang if the object of the beat down was someone else. Maybe not doing the punching herself, but not standing for the victim either.