Does Matt Hancock know what he's talking about? Credit: Leon Neal/Getty Images)

Yesterday in parliament, Matt Hancock explained to the house why, “on the substance”, the central claim of the Great Barrington Declaration was “emphatically not true”.
“Many diseases never reach herd immunity – including measles, malaria, AIDS and flu…” he said. “Herd immunity is a flawed goal – even if we could get to it, which we can’t.”
"The Great Barrington declaration is underpinned by two central claims, and both are emphatically false."
Health secretary Matt Hancock tells the House of Commons that "herd immunity is a flawed goal without a vaccine."@MattHancock | @HouseofCommons pic.twitter.com/znCZTOF9jX
— Talk (@TalkTV) October 13, 2020
Let’s have a look at the diseases he mentions. Measles, if it arrives on ‘virgin soil’, can devastate a population. In Tahiti and Moorea and the South-east and North-west Marquesas, between 20% and 70% of the population was lost to the first epidemic. Natural infection with measles provides lifelong immunity, and we now have a vaccine which provides similar solid, durable protection. We have not been able to eliminate the disease, but those who rather selfishly choose not to vaccinate their children are only able make that choice because the risks of infection are kept low by those who are immune — currently, a combination of those, like me, who caught it and recovered and many others for whom it is vaccine induced. The vaccine does not work in babies, which is why you have to wait till they are a year old before they get it. We can do this because herd immunity keeps the risk of infection down, so they are are unlikely to be infected in their first year of life. Without this herd protection, many under ones would die (as they regularly do in sub-Saharan Africa) despite a vaccine being available.
Malaria (a primary focus of my research) is caused by a parasite which carries at least 60 different outfits with which to disguise itself from immune attack. We, nonetheless, typically acquire sufficient immunity upon first infection so as not to suffer severe disease and death upon further attacks. This is a feature it probably has in common with Covid-19. But that is where the similarity ends. It has been difficult to make a malaria vaccine that covers all of its diversity, but fortunately that should not be a problem for Covid-19.
AIDS is caused by the Human Immunodeficiency Virus which also has an extraordinary capacity to change outfits during the course of infection. This, and other mechanisms of subverting the immune response, allow it to persist indefinitely in an infected person. Even so, rates of infection will slow down as the virus runs out of people to infect.
Fortunately, Covid-19 does not possess such an array of immune evasion mechanisms that could seriously compromise any possibility of vaccine development in the next few years. Like HIV, influenza also has the ability to change its outfit, and periodically a new strain emerges requiring a new vaccine. It is because sufficient immunity accumulates in the population that a radical change of outfit becomes worthwhile. What Mr Hancock means when he says we do not reach herd immunity to flu is that it finds ways around it; it is unlikely, given the nature of coronaviruses that the SARS Cov-2 virus would be capable of doing the same thing.
In a nutshell, the development of immunity through natural infection is a common feature of many pathogens, and it is reasonable to assume that Covid-19 does not have any tricks up its sleeve to prevent this from happening — it would pose a very serious problem for the development of a vaccine if it did. Having said this, the Covid-19 virus belongs to a family of viruses which do not typically give you lifelong immunity against infection. Most of us will never have heard of these other four ‘seasonal’ coronaviruses that are currently circulating in our communities. And yet surveys indicate that at least 3% of the population is infected by any single one of these corona cousins during the winter months. These viruses can cause deaths in high risk groups or require them to receive ICU care or ventilator support, so it is not necessarily true that they are intrinsically milder than the novel Covid-19 virus. And like the Covid-19 virus, they are much less virulent in the healthy elderly and younger people than influenza.
One important reason why these corona cousins do not kill large numbers of people is because even though we lose immunity and can be reinfected, there is still always a decent enough proportion of immune people in the population to keep the risk of infection low to those who might die upon contracting it. Also, all the coronaviruses in circulation — including the Covid-19 virus— have some features in common which means that getting one coronavirus will probably offer some protection against other coronaviruses. This is becoming increasingly clear from work in many labs, including my lab in Oxford. It is against this background of immunity from itself and its close relations that Covid-19 virus has to operate.
So what does Mr Hancock mean by “reaching” herd immunity? Herd immunity is a continuous variable which increases as people become immune and decreases as they lose immunity or die. He is perhaps referring to the threshold of herd immunity at which the rate of new infections starts to decrease. We do not yet have a very clear idea of what this threshold is for Covid-19 as the landscape in which it spreads includes people who are susceptible to it, people who have built up immunity to it, and people who have immunity to other coronaviruses.
Unfortunately, we do not have a good way of telling how many people have actually been exposed to the new virus, or how many people were resistant to start with. We are able to test for antibodies – and my lab in Oxford has been doing so since early April – but, as with other coronaviruses, Covid-19 antibody levels decline after recovery, and some people do not make them at all, and so antibody levels will not give us the answer. More and more evidence is accumulating that other arms of immunity, like T cells, play an important role.
Indications of the herd immunity threshold having been reached are available from the time signatures of epidemics in various parts of the world where death and infection curves tend to “bend” in the absence of intervention or to stay down when interventions were relaxed (in comparison with other locations where the opposite happened). But we do not know how far we are from it in most parts of the UK. It is important to bear in mind that the attainment of the herd immunity threshold does not lead to disease eradication. Instead it corresponds to an equilibrium state in which the infections lingers at low levels in the community. This is the situation we tolerate for most infectious diseases (like flu which kills 650K people every year globally). The situation can be vastly improved through vaccination, but it is very difficult to eliminate the disease even with a good vaccine.
We are of course also able to test for presence of the virus, and there is much attention on this with ‘test and trace’ strategies. However this test, known as the PCR test, is of limited value as it cannot tell us whether someone is infectious and can pass on the disease, whether they have the virus but cannot pass it on, or indeed whether the virus has been destroyed by the immune system and only fragments remain. This means that we need to make public health decisions based on only partial information, and in a changing environment, and is why assumptions of how many people have been infected and are immune are so important.
The Great Barrington Declaration proposes a solution for how we may proceed in the face of such uncertainty. It suggests that we exploit the feature of this virus that it does not cause much harm to the large majority of the population to allow them to resume their normal lives, while shielding those who are vulnerable to severe disease and death.
Under these circumstances, immunity will build up in the general population to a level that poses a low enough risk of infection to the vulnerable population that they may resume their normal lives. All of this can happen over a period of six months, and so this Focused Protection plan does not involve the permanent segregation of the vulnerable from the rest of the population.
It is important that any new proposal should receive close scrutiny and constructive criticism. I’ve addressed the short duration of immunity; but another worry is the ‘occult damage‘, or secondary effects sustained by those who are not obviously vulnerable. It is not at all unexpected that some people would suffer post-viral symptoms for extended periods of time (I believe I did!) and that it may be quite debilitating for some. Among the lessons we could learn from this crisis could be a wider recognition of the frequency and intensity of post-viral syndromes and an investment in support (leave of absence from jobs, help with daily activities) of those unfortunate enough to suffer in this way. But it is not a new phenomenon and cannot be a good enough reason to stop the world and potentially let tens of millions of people starve to death.
How such a plan may be put into place is obviously the next step to detail, and it is natural that some people might view with scepticism that it can be achieved other than in theory. Many components of protecting the vulnerable have already been enacted in the process of locking down so we should be discussing how these can be improved rather than dismissing them. Directing efforts at hospitals and care homes is one obvious priority. Other parts of the problem – such as the protection of vulnerable people within family settings – require careful discussion and thought, but it must always be borne in mind that these are temporary measures and in the long run could save more lives than cycling in and out of destructive lockdowns.
One colleague likened the GBD plan to “putting all your antiques in a room while your house is burning and fanning the flames”. A better analogy for the build up of herd immunity would rather be to douse the rest of the house with water (which could damage the Chippendale commode) — but it is hard to see how these could be the terms of a serious discussion.
Since the declaration last week, the Great Barrington Declaration has come under attack across the media, online (including Wikipedia and Google) from fellow academics as being part of a Libertarian conspiracy (my politics are not remotely libertarian) or being based in “pseudoscience”; others attempting to be less defamatory say that our views are “fringe”. The large number of serious scientists from top institutions taking part suggest otherwise. There are genuine good faith disagreements that must be aired and discussed — the impact on the world is too significant for us to fail to have this discussion in a serious way.
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SubscribeIt’s not just the response to Covid that has caused children anxiety, the eco-fanatics are also doing their best to scare them out of their wits. It’s utterly reprehensible.
It’s not just the response to Covid that has caused children anxiety, the eco-fanatics are also doing their best to scare them out of their wits. It’s utterly reprehensible.
What about the 2 main questions ;
1 Did the lockdowns save more lives than they caused deaths ?
2 Did the vaccines save more lives than they caused deaths ?
It’s all just a multi-million pound smokescreen.
Cui bono ?
Where did the money go ?
Exactly!
But will we EVER get the truth ? No, not a chance in hell.
Consummatum est!
“2 Did the vaccines save more lives than they caused deaths ?”
The answer is yes. The analysis done after the fact shows this to be the case.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00320-6/fulltext#:~:text=Based%20on%20official%20reported%20COVID,%2C%20and%20Dec%208%2C%202021.
The complicating factor is that this analysis can only be modelled. You can’t go out into the world and actually count what would have happened otherwise, because it didn’t happen.
So if you are minded to distrust this kind of evidence or the people who produce it, then you are likely to dismiss it.
“1. Did the lockdowns save more lives than they caused deaths ?”
I think this is the nub of the matter, although I’m not sure focusing on deaths alone is necessarily the right way to consider it. The long term harm done to children’s education and social development will negatively impact many of them even if they live to 100.
My guess is that lockdown probably did save some lives (and was notably successful in place like New Zealand which because of population density, geography etc was able to isolate itself). But few people properly asked the question, how many lives saved justifies the harm done to children, the economy, mental health etc etc?
Which is a hard question to ask, of course, but pandemics ask hard questions of policy makers.
We won’t know for years as to wether lockdowns and the vaccines saved lives, and that’s if we ask the right questions. We’re still currently experiencing excess deaths, compared to pre pandemic times, which are non Covid. I’m sure there was an article in UnHerd, that the ONS, stated that life expectancy has drop by nearly 1 year.
We won’t know for years as to wether lockdowns and the vaccines saved lives, and that’s if we ask the right questions. We’re still currently experiencing excess deaths, compared to pre pandemic times, which are non Covid. I’m sure there was an article in UnHerd, that the ONS, stated that life expectancy has drop by nearly 1 year.
Sweden’s inquiry concluded they made good decisions (decisions I happen to agree with, but not my point here).
I rather suspect we will conclude broadly the same – if mistakes were made, they were understandable. I suspect most such inquiries will conclude the same. Afterall, if significant mistakes were made, somebody might have to be held to account.
165 million people slipped back into poverty because of lockdowns. Absolutely anyone with an ounce of common sense could predict that outcome. That’s why lockdowns were considered a non-starter prior to covid.
“Where did the money go ?”
That’s far right, white supremacist, fascist talk.
Thankfully, soon after COVID ended, Ukraine kicked off so that we could further trash the economy and find a use for those surplus billions that we have no use for.
Exactly!
But will we EVER get the truth ? No, not a chance in hell.
Consummatum est!
“2 Did the vaccines save more lives than they caused deaths ?”
The answer is yes. The analysis done after the fact shows this to be the case.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00320-6/fulltext#:~:text=Based%20on%20official%20reported%20COVID,%2C%20and%20Dec%208%2C%202021.
The complicating factor is that this analysis can only be modelled. You can’t go out into the world and actually count what would have happened otherwise, because it didn’t happen.
So if you are minded to distrust this kind of evidence or the people who produce it, then you are likely to dismiss it.
“1. Did the lockdowns save more lives than they caused deaths ?”
I think this is the nub of the matter, although I’m not sure focusing on deaths alone is necessarily the right way to consider it. The long term harm done to children’s education and social development will negatively impact many of them even if they live to 100.
My guess is that lockdown probably did save some lives (and was notably successful in place like New Zealand which because of population density, geography etc was able to isolate itself). But few people properly asked the question, how many lives saved justifies the harm done to children, the economy, mental health etc etc?
Which is a hard question to ask, of course, but pandemics ask hard questions of policy makers.
Sweden’s inquiry concluded they made good decisions (decisions I happen to agree with, but not my point here).
I rather suspect we will conclude broadly the same – if mistakes were made, they were understandable. I suspect most such inquiries will conclude the same. Afterall, if significant mistakes were made, somebody might have to be held to account.
165 million people slipped back into poverty because of lockdowns. Absolutely anyone with an ounce of common sense could predict that outcome. That’s why lockdowns were considered a non-starter prior to covid.
“Where did the money go ?”
That’s far right, white supremacist, fascist talk.
Thankfully, soon after COVID ended, Ukraine kicked off so that we could further trash the economy and find a use for those surplus billions that we have no use for.
What about the 2 main questions ;
1 Did the lockdowns save more lives than they caused deaths ?
2 Did the vaccines save more lives than they caused deaths ?
It’s all just a multi-million pound smokescreen.
Cui bono ?
Where did the money go ?
If the way we treat children is a reflection on society, then we are doomed. Children have become ideological pawns, to be used and discarded by adults to advance their cause du jour.
It’s not only Covid. Climate alarmists have brainwashed children into thinking the world will end, creating an army of little activists who will promote their agenda. Who cares if we create a generation of children riddled with anxiety, or a generation that will never enjoy the wealth and privilege of their parents?
Gender activists will literally encourage children to undergo life-altering medical interventions in some twisted ideological crusade to legitimize their lifestyle. And millions of enablers and cowards just let it happen.
If the way we treat children is a reflection on society, then we are doomed. Children have become ideological pawns, to be used and discarded by adults to advance their cause du jour.
It’s not only Covid. Climate alarmists have brainwashed children into thinking the world will end, creating an army of little activists who will promote their agenda. Who cares if we create a generation of children riddled with anxiety, or a generation that will never enjoy the wealth and privilege of their parents?
Gender activists will literally encourage children to undergo life-altering medical interventions in some twisted ideological crusade to legitimize their lifestyle. And millions of enablers and cowards just let it happen.
Agree.
The initial lockdown and school closure – understandable. Lockdown 2 – no and Govt incompetency alongside potential vested interests should be part of the Inquiry.
Personally I’d hope the Inquiry also touches on the potential harm over-exposure to social media and smart technologies at a young age, which even before the pandemic were arguably driving changes in child development we have yet to fully understand and fully appreciate. The pandemic then may have further accelerated this trend.
Agree.
The initial lockdown and school closure – understandable. Lockdown 2 – no and Govt incompetency alongside potential vested interests should be part of the Inquiry.
Personally I’d hope the Inquiry also touches on the potential harm over-exposure to social media and smart technologies at a young age, which even before the pandemic were arguably driving changes in child development we have yet to fully understand and fully appreciate. The pandemic then may have further accelerated this trend.
When one considers life-years lost (as used to be factored into public health decision making prior to everything being thrown out of the window in 2020), the youth appear to have been hit even harder.
Based on a life expectancy of 82, the death of an 80 year old means 2 years of life lost. The death of an 18 year old is 64 years lost (32 x 80 year olds).
I’m sick of this “Lockdowns saved lives” nonsense. No intervention has ever “saved” a life. We all die. Interventions may extend lives and public health used to attempt to calculate how many and by how much. Seemingly not any more.
Whenever I see someone use the phrase “lives saved”, I know that there is an ignorance that will be associated with large amounts of irrationality.
When one considers life-years lost (as used to be factored into public health decision making prior to everything being thrown out of the window in 2020), the youth appear to have been hit even harder.
Based on a life expectancy of 82, the death of an 80 year old means 2 years of life lost. The death of an 18 year old is 64 years lost (32 x 80 year olds).
I’m sick of this “Lockdowns saved lives” nonsense. No intervention has ever “saved” a life. We all die. Interventions may extend lives and public health used to attempt to calculate how many and by how much. Seemingly not any more.
Whenever I see someone use the phrase “lives saved”, I know that there is an ignorance that will be associated with large amounts of irrationality.
To begin with, until March 16, 2020, the scientific status quo on lockdowns was univocal: their efficacy is low, their consequences are dire, and they should be treated as a last resort. The 2014 Ebola lockdown in Sierra Leone was the ultimate case in point. As reported by media outlets in 2014, the Doctors Without Borders (MSF) group repeatedly warned against such measures. The MSF representatives argued that lockdowns (1) do not contain the spread of the virus and (2) aggravate the epidemic by concealing potential cases. As expected, they led to extreme food and water shortages and riots across the country. And indeed, a similar scenario was witnessed across the USA and Europe from the summer of 2020 onwards. This should not come as a surprise: studies show that in isolated humans and mice, the levels of tachykinins (TaC1 and TaC2) rise to very high levels: and increased levels of these neuropeptides increase anxiety, a sense of friction with the world and, ultimately, aggression.
Cohen and Lipsitch argued (2008) that the epidemic theory advises against strict interventions because the spread of viruses “can paradoxically increase the burden of disease in a population.” This is why the 2019 WHO’s influenza pandemic plan advocated strictly against measures such as social isolation, border closures, travel bans, and mass quarantines. Health Center at John Hopkins University’s report titled Preparedness for a High-impact Respiratory Pandemic confirmed similar conclusions, where movement restrictions are advised against due to their low efficacy against highly-transmissible pathogens that are spread through airborne mechanisms.
There you go; similar scientific studies and real-life cases can be quoted ad nauseam.
To begin with, until March 16, 2020, the scientific status quo on lockdowns was univocal: their efficacy is low, their consequences are dire, and they should be treated as a last resort. The 2014 Ebola lockdown in Sierra Leone was the ultimate case in point. As reported by media outlets in 2014, the Doctors Without Borders (MSF) group repeatedly warned against such measures. The MSF representatives argued that lockdowns (1) do not contain the spread of the virus and (2) aggravate the epidemic by concealing potential cases. As expected, they led to extreme food and water shortages and riots across the country. And indeed, a similar scenario was witnessed across the USA and Europe from the summer of 2020 onwards. This should not come as a surprise: studies show that in isolated humans and mice, the levels of tachykinins (TaC1 and TaC2) rise to very high levels: and increased levels of these neuropeptides increase anxiety, a sense of friction with the world and, ultimately, aggression.
Cohen and Lipsitch argued (2008) that the epidemic theory advises against strict interventions because the spread of viruses “can paradoxically increase the burden of disease in a population.” This is why the 2019 WHO’s influenza pandemic plan advocated strictly against measures such as social isolation, border closures, travel bans, and mass quarantines. Health Center at John Hopkins University’s report titled Preparedness for a High-impact Respiratory Pandemic confirmed similar conclusions, where movement restrictions are advised against due to their low efficacy against highly-transmissible pathogens that are spread through airborne mechanisms.
There you go; similar scientific studies and real-life cases can be quoted ad nauseam.
What do you think is the interest to address the harm caused to children in the same power structures that considers COVID to be just an extremely successful test, successful beyond wildest dreams, how far they can push people into total submission? They found there is no limit. So what do they care about harm caused to society, if the people they are planning to enslave do not really care?
What do you think is the interest to address the harm caused to children in the same power structures that considers COVID to be just an extremely successful test, successful beyond wildest dreams, how far they can push people into total submission? They found there is no limit. So what do they care about harm caused to society, if the people they are planning to enslave do not really care?
Yes, a huge negative impact on children, but let’s not forget that’s 40 organisations who need to generate scathing indictments or demonstrate their redundancy. Those mortgages and school fees won’t pay themselves, you know.
Yes, a huge negative impact on children, but let’s not forget that’s 40 organisations who need to generate scathing indictments or demonstrate their redundancy. Those mortgages and school fees won’t pay themselves, you know.
The power was with the older generation and they were whom the vaccines targetted.
I suspect that Big Pharma, Faucci and his CCP friends knew that a lab flu would maximise profits as well as wider economic damage to national competitors.
Children were collateraral damage.
The power was with the older generation and they were whom the vaccines targetted.
I suspect that Big Pharma, Faucci and his CCP friends knew that a lab flu would maximise profits as well as wider economic damage to national competitors.
Children were collateraral damage.
It’s not limited to Covid, almost every government policy seems to benefit the old over the young
It’s not limited to Covid, almost every government policy seems to benefit the old over the young
As long as the enquiry (and its sceptics) gives up on their 20:20 hindsight.
As long as the enquiry (and its sceptics) gives up on their 20:20 hindsight.
Hysteria. My kids’ literacy improved significantly during the so-called lockdown. We had much more family time, and our introverted second child, who is damaged by the forced socialisation of school, loved it.
You have little to bother about, frankly.
First world problem b/s
Middle class smugness you mean. I doubt that children in overcrowded tower block flats did so well. And anyone who will need to earn a living requires the ‘forced socialisation’ of school, however much they might hate it. Probably a result of spending the pre school years with a housewife mother instead of in a nursery.
Middle class smugness you mean. I doubt that children in overcrowded tower block flats did so well. And anyone who will need to earn a living requires the ‘forced socialisation’ of school, however much they might hate it. Probably a result of spending the pre school years with a housewife mother instead of in a nursery.
Hysteria. My kids’ literacy improved significantly during the so-called lockdown. We had much more family time, and our introverted second child, who is damaged by the forced socialisation of school, loved it.
You have little to bother about, frankly.
First world problem b/s
Unless the author can field alternative solutions, even with the benefit of hindsight, then this is just another frothy rant destined for the bin.
And how can children not be potential vectors? Very spurious claim.
Lockdowns were never part of the pandemic planning response prior to covid.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12370977/The-Covid-Inquiry-never-admit-strong-pandemic-plan-went-wrong-Leftie-scientists-panicky-politicians-writes-PROFESSOR-ROBERT-DINGWALL.html
How many more people would have died do you think, had we taken the Great Barrington approach?
165 million people slipped into poverty because of lockdowns. Not just western poverty – but $2 a day, abject poverty. I can’t wrap my head around that. Since 1998, there has been a steady and continuous reduction in poverty. That all ended with the selfish gerontocracy running the west. I can’t think of a more devastating, immoral act committed in the last 50 years.
Didn’t want to answer this dilemma then? I wonder why…
I didn’t bother because we’ve been down this path multiple times before. You say the Great Barrington Declaration isn’t possible. I say that’s hogwash. The British govt spent $200 billion in the first year of lockdowns alone, just to compensate workers to stay at home and compensate businesses for shutting down. A tiny fraction of that money could have been used to implement a real quarantine program for elderly people and others at risk.
On the other hand, you support lockdowns for the entire population. But they weren’t real quarantines because millions of people went to work. These people were spreading the disease, bringing it back home to people at risk, because these people didn’t have an option to be placed in a real quarantine zone and were therefore exposed to the disease. Lockdowns were only effective at protecting the laptop class, who got paid to work from home. It didn’t protect truckers or grocery clerks or essential workers.
I can’t make you see the logical fallacy of this approach, but it doesn’t mean the logical fallacy doesn’t exist.
The Great Barrington Declaration doesn’t require every single senior to be quarantined. It gives them a real choice though. The pretend lockdowns only protected people who could afford to live at home without going out. I emphasize the 165 million people who slipped into poverty to illustrate the carnage and devastation caused by lockdowns.
You’re vision of a quarantine zone is a complete fantasy from start to finish. You’re talking about millions of people being moved to ‘some place’ in a short space of time. Did you not consider logistics, resources, food, staff and of course organisation. It’s utter nonsense.
Why would there be millions of people? About 200,000 people died in Britain because of Covid. Theoretically, these are the only people who needed to be quarantined because everyone else survived.
Sure, this number is a bit ridiculous, but so is millions of people. The only people that needed to be quarantined are those who could not isolate at home, and would choose to leave their home.
Not every single senior needed to be quarantined or would consent to it. For those people who could not isolate at home, you house them in hotels or other facilities. Build some if you need to. China built a massive hospital in three weeks. The expense is not an issue because the govt found $200 billion for income replacement programs. The only barrier is manpower. Hotels already have staff. So how many more do you need – 10.000, 50,000?
Surely, you agree that lockdowns were an utter failure and caused much more damage than they prevented. Certainly, the 165 million people who slipped into poverty think they were an utter failure.
About a third of the population are considered vulnerable. That’s a lot of people to lock up in hotels for two years.
Lockdowns saved millions of lives, in this respect they were a huge success.
About a third of the population are considered vulnerable. That’s a lot of people to lock up in hotels for two years.
Lockdowns saved millions of lives, in this respect they were a huge success.
Why would there be millions of people? About 200,000 people died in Britain because of Covid. Theoretically, these are the only people who needed to be quarantined because everyone else survived.
Sure, this number is a bit ridiculous, but so is millions of people. The only people that needed to be quarantined are those who could not isolate at home, and would choose to leave their home.
Not every single senior needed to be quarantined or would consent to it. For those people who could not isolate at home, you house them in hotels or other facilities. Build some if you need to. China built a massive hospital in three weeks. The expense is not an issue because the govt found $200 billion for income replacement programs. The only barrier is manpower. Hotels already have staff. So how many more do you need – 10.000, 50,000?
Surely, you agree that lockdowns were an utter failure and caused much more damage than they prevented. Certainly, the 165 million people who slipped into poverty think they were an utter failure.
You’re vision of a quarantine zone is a complete fantasy from start to finish. You’re talking about millions of people being moved to ‘some place’ in a short space of time. Did you not consider logistics, resources, food, staff and of course organisation. It’s utter nonsense.
I didn’t bother because we’ve been down this path multiple times before. You say the Great Barrington Declaration isn’t possible. I say that’s hogwash. The British govt spent $200 billion in the first year of lockdowns alone, just to compensate workers to stay at home and compensate businesses for shutting down. A tiny fraction of that money could have been used to implement a real quarantine program for elderly people and others at risk.
On the other hand, you support lockdowns for the entire population. But they weren’t real quarantines because millions of people went to work. These people were spreading the disease, bringing it back home to people at risk, because these people didn’t have an option to be placed in a real quarantine zone and were therefore exposed to the disease. Lockdowns were only effective at protecting the laptop class, who got paid to work from home. It didn’t protect truckers or grocery clerks or essential workers.
I can’t make you see the logical fallacy of this approach, but it doesn’t mean the logical fallacy doesn’t exist.
The Great Barrington Declaration doesn’t require every single senior to be quarantined. It gives them a real choice though. The pretend lockdowns only protected people who could afford to live at home without going out. I emphasize the 165 million people who slipped into poverty to illustrate the carnage and devastation caused by lockdowns.
Didn’t want to answer this dilemma then? I wonder why…
165 million people slipped into poverty because of lockdowns. Not just western poverty – but $2 a day, abject poverty. I can’t wrap my head around that. Since 1998, there has been a steady and continuous reduction in poverty. That all ended with the selfish gerontocracy running the west. I can’t think of a more devastating, immoral act committed in the last 50 years.
How many more people would have died do you think, had we taken the Great Barrington approach?
To begin with, until March 16, 2020, the scientific status quo on lockdowns was univocal: their efficacy is low, their consequences are dire, and they should be treated as a last resort. The 2014 Ebola lockdown in Sierra Leone was the ultimate case in point. As reported by media outlets in 2014, the Doctors Without Borders (MSF) group repeatedly warned against such measures. The MSF representatives argued that lockdowns (1) do not contain the spread of the virus and (2) aggravate the epidemic by concealing potential cases. As expected, they led to extreme food and water shortages and riots across the country. And indeed, a similar scenario was witnessed across the USA and Europe from the summer of 2020 onwards. This should not come as a surprise: studies show that in isolated humans and mice, the levels of tachykinins (TaC1 and TaC2) rise to very high levels: and increased levels of these neuropeptides increase anxiety, a sense of friction with the world and, ultimately, aggression.
Cohen and Lipsitch argued (2008) that the epidemic theory advises against strict interventions because the spread of viruses “can paradoxically increase the burden of disease in a population.” This is why the 2019 WHO’s influenza pandemic plan advocated strictly against measures such as social isolation, border closures, travel bans, and mass quarantines. Health Center at John Hopkins University’s report titled Preparedness for a High-impact Respiratory Pandemic confirmed similar conclusions, where movement restrictions are advised against due to their low efficacy against highly-transmissible pathogens that are spread through airborne mechanisms.
There you go; similar scientific studies and real-life cases can be quoted ad nauseam.
Children generally didn’t contract and so spread this coronavirus.
Asymptomatic transmission was another myth set up by our modern bio-states and yet to be proven.
Children were not immune. Hope that helps.
For starters, until March 16, 2020, the scientific status quo on lockdowns was univocal: their efficacy is low, their consequences are dire, and they should be treated as a last resort. The 2014 Ebola lockdown in Sierra Leone was the ultimate case in point. As reported by media outlets in 2014, the Doctors Without Borders (MSF) group repeatedly warned against such measures. The MSF representatives argued that lockdowns (1) do not contain the spread of the virus and (2) aggravate the epidemic by concealing potential cases (Thomson Reuters, 2014). As expected, they led to extreme food and water shortages and riots across the country. To be sure, a similar scenario was witnessed across the USA and Europe from the summer of 2020 onwards. This should not come as a surprise: studies show that in isolated humans and mice, the levels of tachykinins (TaC1 and TaC2) rise to very high levels: and increased levels of these neuropeptides increase anxiety, a sense of friction with the world and, ultimately, aggression.
Cohen and Lipsitch famously argued (2008) that the epidemic theory advises against strict interventions because the spread of viruses “can paradoxically increase the burden of disease in a population.” This is why the 2019 WHO’s influenza pandemic plan advocated strictly against measures such as social isolation, border closures, travel bans, and mass quarantines. Health Center at John Hopkins University’s report titled Preparedness for a High-impact Respiratory Pandemic confirmed similar conclusions, where movement restrictions are advised against due to their low efficacy against highly-transmissible pathogens that are spread through airborne mechanisms.
In short, the existing body of scientific knowledge, backed by real-life cases advises against implementing lockdowns for airborne viruses. And, it’s epidemiology “101,” not some kinf of arcane knowledge.
Hope that helps.
It doesn’t help at all. If these theories were so sound then why did almost every country and government consider it the correct approach to save lives? Which it was of course. The outlier was Sweden, and as we know, they had a complete disaster.
Although Sweden was hit hard by the first wave of Covid, its total excess deaths during the first two years of the pandemic were actually among the lowest in Europe.
Yet two or three times higher then comparative neighbours. Their policy cost the lives of thousands of people.
Yet two or three times higher then comparative neighbours. Their policy cost the lives of thousands of people.
Although Sweden was hit hard by the first wave of Covid, its total excess deaths during the first two years of the pandemic were actually among the lowest in Europe.
It doesn’t help at all. If these theories were so sound then why did almost every country and government consider it the correct approach to save lives? Which it was of course. The outlier was Sweden, and as we know, they had a complete disaster.
For starters, until March 16, 2020, the scientific status quo on lockdowns was univocal: their efficacy is low, their consequences are dire, and they should be treated as a last resort. The 2014 Ebola lockdown in Sierra Leone was the ultimate case in point. As reported by media outlets in 2014, the Doctors Without Borders (MSF) group repeatedly warned against such measures. The MSF representatives argued that lockdowns (1) do not contain the spread of the virus and (2) aggravate the epidemic by concealing potential cases (Thomson Reuters, 2014). As expected, they led to extreme food and water shortages and riots across the country. To be sure, a similar scenario was witnessed across the USA and Europe from the summer of 2020 onwards. This should not come as a surprise: studies show that in isolated humans and mice, the levels of tachykinins (TaC1 and TaC2) rise to very high levels: and increased levels of these neuropeptides increase anxiety, a sense of friction with the world and, ultimately, aggression.
Cohen and Lipsitch famously argued (2008) that the epidemic theory advises against strict interventions because the spread of viruses “can paradoxically increase the burden of disease in a population.” This is why the 2019 WHO’s influenza pandemic plan advocated strictly against measures such as social isolation, border closures, travel bans, and mass quarantines. Health Center at John Hopkins University’s report titled Preparedness for a High-impact Respiratory Pandemic confirmed similar conclusions, where movement restrictions are advised against due to their low efficacy against highly-transmissible pathogens that are spread through airborne mechanisms.
In short, the existing body of scientific knowledge, backed by real-life cases advises against implementing lockdowns for airborne viruses. And, it’s epidemiology “101,” not some kinf of arcane knowledge.
Hope that helps.
Children were not immune. Hope that helps.
Lockdowns were never part of the pandemic planning response prior to covid.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12370977/The-Covid-Inquiry-never-admit-strong-pandemic-plan-went-wrong-Leftie-scientists-panicky-politicians-writes-PROFESSOR-ROBERT-DINGWALL.html
To begin with, until March 16, 2020, the scientific status quo on lockdowns was univocal: their efficacy is low, their consequences are dire, and they should be treated as a last resort. The 2014 Ebola lockdown in Sierra Leone was the ultimate case in point. As reported by media outlets in 2014, the Doctors Without Borders (MSF) group repeatedly warned against such measures. The MSF representatives argued that lockdowns (1) do not contain the spread of the virus and (2) aggravate the epidemic by concealing potential cases. As expected, they led to extreme food and water shortages and riots across the country. And indeed, a similar scenario was witnessed across the USA and Europe from the summer of 2020 onwards. This should not come as a surprise: studies show that in isolated humans and mice, the levels of tachykinins (TaC1 and TaC2) rise to very high levels: and increased levels of these neuropeptides increase anxiety, a sense of friction with the world and, ultimately, aggression.
Cohen and Lipsitch argued (2008) that the epidemic theory advises against strict interventions because the spread of viruses “can paradoxically increase the burden of disease in a population.” This is why the 2019 WHO’s influenza pandemic plan advocated strictly against measures such as social isolation, border closures, travel bans, and mass quarantines. Health Center at John Hopkins University’s report titled Preparedness for a High-impact Respiratory Pandemic confirmed similar conclusions, where movement restrictions are advised against due to their low efficacy against highly-transmissible pathogens that are spread through airborne mechanisms.
There you go; similar scientific studies and real-life cases can be quoted ad nauseam.
Children generally didn’t contract and so spread this coronavirus.
Asymptomatic transmission was another myth set up by our modern bio-states and yet to be proven.
Unless the author can field alternative solutions, even with the benefit of hindsight, then this is just another frothy rant destined for the bin.
And how can children not be potential vectors? Very spurious claim.