So: “Prepare to invade Mexico tomorrow!”, or: “I’m going to teach China a lesson with nukes!”.
Yes, one of the main scaremongering tactics of Trump’s opponents before the last election was to claim that Trump would recklessly lead the US into war. As it turns out, he is the only US president this century NOT to have committed U.S. troops to disastrous military adventures.
Also, this article totally fails to mention what the Democrats are threatening to do, should they fail to win. Hilary Clinton is on record saying that “Biden should not concede the 2020 election under any circumstances”. What should the military do then?
I could go on.
Perhaps the historical part of this essay dealing with Nixon is correct, I don’t know, but given that the who tone of the article is showing all the symptoms of late-stage TDS, I would even cast that into doubt.
He hasn’t committed troops to disastrous adventures, but then neither did Carter. His withdrawals and posturing with international treaties however have already been very destructive, and will potentially unravel Middle East stability even further. Many thousands of Kurds have already paid the ultimate price for his gesturing. I was initially hopeful that his isolationism would protect the rest of the world from US interventions, but I’m disappointed that for example nuclear non-proliferation treaties are being abandoned.
Kurds are always at risk, mostly from Turkey. The US tries to keep Turkey in the alliance (maybe impossible). Only a re-partition to create a Kurd state resolves their issue and that went so well for Israel. The nuclear issues now involve China who doesn’t want to play. The US/Russia parity has been maintained except for abandoning the shorter range threats.
It’d take the kind of genius Trump doesn’t possess to make things any worse than the leaders in the Middle East have already made things. Tony Blair’s accomplishments as a ‘Peace Envoy’ spring to mind. Before we knew it the progenitor of an ‘illegal’ war in Iraq gave us ‘Arab Spring’.Ta dah!
“He hasn’t committed troops to disastrous adventures, but then neither did Carter.”
Does the Iranian hostage crisis ring any bells? A stark military failure that likely cost Carter the election.
“His withdrawals and posturing with international treaties however have already been very destructive, and will potentially unravel Middle East stability even further. “
Ever heard of the Abraham Accords? What Trump actually accomplished has put the ME on a more stable footing. He effectively proved that the lack of resolution to the Israeli/ Palestinian issue will not stop ME progress as we have been told for decades that it would. Iran is now the issue.
“I was initially hopeful that his isolationism would protect the rest of the world from US interventions, but I’m disappointed that for example nuclear non-proliferation treaties are being abandoned.”
You may engage in any nuclear non-proliferation treaty you want, with any other country, regardless of what the US does. If a treaty is all you want, that should not be tough to do.
Four years later, and President Trump is refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power, Given how Dems have conducted themselves since his election, I can’t tell if this comment is driven by ignorance or just a lack of self-awareness. And that’s not to discount the possibility of both. The entire Dem apparatus steadfastly refused to accept the 2016 outcome, inventing one reason after another to paint a duly elected president as illegitimate. At long last, John Brennan’s own handwritten notes show that the big Russia story was the exact opposite of what the left treated it as being.
Dan Martin
3 years ago
I wish the left would wait until Trump actually does something before condemning him for it.
steve eaton
3 years ago
Let’s see if I am getting this. The left is worried that Trump, the constitutionally elected resident MIGHT order the military to do something unconstitutional, so the plan made public calls for the un-elected officials to preempt that by devising ways they will violate the Constitution…
So which side is it that is planning a coup again?
This article is purely a hit piece. What is up with UNHERD lately, did it get bought by the NYT or the Guardian recently?
When I visit UNHERD I expect reasoned arguments not just the same old lame-assed propaganda that I can get anywhere without even trying.
Calm down dear it’s only an article. Pop back into your little echo chamber for a while, watch some Fox news or read the Daily Mail and when you’re calm and ready to read a point of view you might not necessary agree with you know where to find us.
Typical for those of your persuasion, a reply that avoids the issue raised while still managing to transmit all the hatred, bile, and condescension that is implicit in your worldview…you’re trolling the wrong guy my “friend”. You’ll get no rise from me because I consider such criticism from the left as complimentary.
This is probably more appropriate for the Guardian than here.
polidoris ghost
3 years ago
The military are more likely to obey The President than not. He is The Commander-in-Chief and his opponents are not. Perhaps the US military should swear allegiance to The Queen.
Right now they are disobeying his plans to withdraw thousands of troops from Afghanistan.
Jerry Carroll
3 years ago
Someone from the world of cinema in the Nixon era quoting New York Times sources and refers to conservatives as alt-right is not someone I take seriously, nor should anyone else. Knowing they face defeat in three weeks, the Democrat Party is furiously fanning the fantasy fires it has created. You can tell from the desperation in their eyes.
June Skelton
3 years ago
I’m confused. I remember warmonger Richard Nixon, but is the writer alluding to the same Donald Trump who’s just been nominated for the FOURTH time for a Nobel Peace Prize, this time by Finnish MEP, Laura Huhtasaari?
“President Trump has served almost a complete presidential term without starting a new war,” Huhtasaari said. “This would be the first time in almost four decades when the President of the United States of America has served a term without engaging his country to new conflict.”
If only he were black he could’ve got one merely for being elected; like Obama. To Obama’s credit, he had the decency to look as baffled as the rest of us on acceptance!
mike otter
3 years ago
By stating they refuse to accept a defeat at the polls the Dems are setting the scene for chaos not even the military can control. Were Trump to do the same his chances of keeping power are higher than the Dems. They have made their hatred and fear of the 62m Trump voters clear. That’s a lot of people to take on in a country awash with anti-personnel firearms ( as opposed to game hunting ones). The only natural Dem supporters who are well-armed are the drug gangs, and their support is conditional on promised softer sentencing for their foot soldiers. Their leaders and managers are naturally at the de-regulated end of capitalism, and their ranks do what they’re told or else. I hope it doesn’t come to this but as i have said many times far left politics is not electable in the richest 3rd of the world. They only have one option if they want power and it remains to be seen if they are capable of using it.
Like I’ve pointed out before. Our founders made a point of ensuring that we American citizens have access to military arms in part to be prepared for times such as these.
The left make it out like it is about hunting. It is not. The constitution states that the purpose of the 2nd amendment forbidding the Government from disarming the people is to ensure a “well regulated militia” the definition of which is a well provisioned military force consisting of all citizens.
Lets hope that thin but very strong line is maintained. As far as i know the USA remains the only country where the Government is in place on the suffeance of its citizens, rather than inspite of them. British passport holders, for example, are “subjects” with no bill of rights for protecting their freedoms and no more constitutional rights than the subjects of Putin or the King of Saudi Arabia.
bob thrasher
3 years ago
…and yet this President has negotiated the first Middle East peace treaties in 25 years.
Well that is why the military doesn’t like him. Peace is the last thing they want. I have just watched a Jimmy Dore podcast telling us that a leading military figure called Milly is openly opposing Trump’s plans to withdraw troops from Afghanistan. They are already disobeying him.
Well, that’s not really accurate is it? The countries that made peace with Israel through the Abraham accords have never before recognized Israel’s right to exist, much less agreed to trade with it. I understand that the conventional wisdom in DC for many years had been that there could be no such recognition prior to the resolution of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict but the accords have made clear that is not the case.
anarcissie
3 years ago
In order to carry out a successful coup, Trump would have to have the strong backing of the US military, or a private army, as Hitler did. Trump has neither. Therefore, there will be no coup. However, it’s so exciting to talk about one and get all lathered up!
Eileen Natuzzi
3 years ago
Wow, these comments are so disappointing. I am new to Unherd and came here tired of partisan bickering and nasty comments to articles. Lighten up, it was a nice historic piece that gave this reader some insight into Nixon and how we might handle a president off the deep end, Republican or Democrat.
Given these concerns, you’d think that addressing fears of electoral / postal fraud would rank pretty high up the todo list. In theory nobody is in favour of vote fraud, so it should be a bi-partisan issue. Voting booths are rather famously separated by big barriers, just like restaurant tables now (in some parts of the world at least) so COVID hardly seems like an excuse.
The general disdain the US Democrats have towards anything that might improve electoral integrity, or even just placate those who are worried about it, is rather shocking. They even hate basic things like checking ID papers, calling it racist. Contested elections and the breakdown of democracy are inevitable if people stop believing votes are correctly counted – they should have no higher priority than ensuring security of the ballot, yet they seem almost wilfully to insist on almost anything that would undermine it. Even saying that they won’t report how many votes were collected for days after the results! That’s mad.
Joe Blow
3 years ago
I long for a return of the time of nuance… an ability to acknowledge the good and bad that Trump represents; the the good and bad that Biden represents…
Hardee Hodges
3 years ago
Much utter nonsense consuming the press. On Jan 20 there will either be an elected President or an interim, the Speaker. That person will then be the only one with the authority to issue orders in the Executive. If Biden wins, he can decide what to do should Trump try to stay. He may wait him out of the WH by laying siege as employees there leave or he may order immediate eviction. Few think Trump would elect that confrontation. If the legal battles rage on with indecision on the date, the Speaker could do many things but the public ire will hamper any response. Even the gloating partisan press may learn public displeasure, perhaps at gunpoint. The military will slow-roll all involved awaiting stability ignoring anything short of external threat.
The instability being created by partisans and the press is quite risky in terms of external opportunists. An outraged public or even half the public may be difficult to control.
kecronin1
3 years ago
I found Trump to be repulsive and was perplexed how he was voted in. I do not believe he represented the best of us but I can’t deny the achievements. We didn’t march off to any new war. When he went too far, such as the environmental appointment, he changed course under pressure. Then a friend who is Uighur, and thus Muslim, told me that their plight was finally being addressed by the Trump administration. Middle East talks were mind blowing. An Israeli friend said the talks have been going on for some time. But as I told her, the ‘talks’ needed a president who was willing to accept the scorn to come and she agreed. Then came news that Taiwan, concerned about their sovereignty under a Biden victory, started buying military equipment under the radar. Watching what is happening in Hong Kong their concerns are justified. It became real that who is the US president may matter to the sovereignty of other nations. I am hoping a Biden’s presidency goes well. Not just for us in the US but for other nations as well.
I felt the same way, I wasn’t excited about either Clinton or Trump but felt like with Trump we could avoid more wars and bring troops home. I also appreciated the economic benefits of the Trump presidency particularly for those low on the economic ladder. The Middle East progress was indeed amazing. I too hope every presidency goes well, including Biden’s.
aelf
3 years ago
Mattis was fired as Secretary of Defense for disobeying orders.
So: “Prepare to invade Mexico tomorrow!”, or: “I’m going to teach China a lesson with nukes!”.
Yes, one of the main scaremongering tactics of Trump’s opponents before the last election was to claim that Trump would recklessly lead the US into war. As it turns out, he is the only US president this century NOT to have committed U.S. troops to disastrous military adventures.
Also, this article totally fails to mention what the Democrats are threatening to do, should they fail to win. Hilary Clinton is on record saying that “Biden should not concede the 2020 election under any circumstances”. What should the military do then?
I could go on.
Perhaps the historical part of this essay dealing with Nixon is correct, I don’t know, but given that the who tone of the article is showing all the symptoms of late-stage TDS, I would even cast that into doubt.
Indeed. As soon as ‘sane, rational, educated’ liberals don’t get their way (Brexit, Trump) it is all toys out of the pram time.
He hasn’t committed troops to disastrous adventures, but then neither did Carter.
His withdrawals and posturing with international treaties however have already been very destructive, and will potentially unravel Middle East stability even further. Many thousands of Kurds have already paid the ultimate price for his gesturing.
I was initially hopeful that his isolationism would protect the rest of the world from US interventions, but I’m disappointed that for example nuclear non-proliferation treaties are being abandoned.
Those non-proliferation treaties were already abandoned by Russia. What’s the point in a treaty that only one side abides?
It makes some people feel superior.
Kurds are always at risk, mostly from Turkey. The US tries to keep Turkey in the alliance (maybe impossible). Only a re-partition to create a Kurd state resolves their issue and that went so well for Israel.
The nuclear issues now involve China who doesn’t want to play. The US/Russia parity has been maintained except for abandoning the shorter range threats.
It’d take the kind of genius Trump doesn’t possess to make things any worse than the leaders in the Middle East have already made things. Tony Blair’s accomplishments as a ‘Peace Envoy’ spring to mind. Before we knew it the progenitor of an ‘illegal’ war in Iraq gave us ‘Arab Spring’.Ta dah!
“He hasn’t committed troops to disastrous adventures, but then neither did Carter.”
Does the Iranian hostage crisis ring any bells? A stark military failure that likely cost Carter the election.
“His withdrawals and posturing with international treaties however have already been very destructive, and will potentially unravel Middle East stability even further. “
Ever heard of the Abraham Accords? What Trump actually accomplished has put the ME on a more stable footing. He effectively proved that the lack of resolution to the Israeli/ Palestinian issue will not stop ME progress as we have been told for decades that it would. Iran is now the issue.
“I was initially hopeful that his isolationism would protect the rest of the world from US interventions, but I’m disappointed that for example nuclear non-proliferation treaties are being abandoned.”
You may engage in any nuclear non-proliferation treaty you want, with any other country, regardless of what the US does. If a treaty is all you want, that should not be tough to do.
‘What if’ is a strawman argument.
Four years later, and President Trump is refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power,
Given how Dems have conducted themselves since his election, I can’t tell if this comment is driven by ignorance or just a lack of self-awareness. And that’s not to discount the possibility of both. The entire Dem apparatus steadfastly refused to accept the 2016 outcome, inventing one reason after another to paint a duly elected president as illegitimate. At long last, John Brennan’s own handwritten notes show that the big Russia story was the exact opposite of what the left treated it as being.
I wish the left would wait until Trump actually does something before condemning him for it.
Let’s see if I am getting this.
The left is worried that Trump, the constitutionally elected resident MIGHT order the military to do something unconstitutional, so the plan made public calls for the un-elected officials to preempt that by devising ways they will violate the Constitution…
So which side is it that is planning a coup again?
This article is purely a hit piece. What is up with UNHERD lately, did it get bought by the NYT or the Guardian recently?
When I visit UNHERD I expect reasoned arguments not just the same old lame-assed propaganda that I can get anywhere without even trying.
Calm down dear it’s only an article. Pop back into your little echo chamber for a while, watch some Fox news or read the Daily Mail and when you’re calm and ready to read a point of view you might not necessary agree with you know where to find us.
Typical for those of your persuasion, a reply that avoids the issue raised while still managing to transmit all the hatred, bile, and condescension that is implicit in your worldview…you’re trolling the wrong guy my “friend”. You’ll get no rise from me because I consider such criticism from the left as complimentary.
This is probably more appropriate for the Guardian than here.
The military are more likely to obey The President than not. He is The Commander-in-Chief and his opponents are not.
Perhaps the US military should swear allegiance to The Queen.
Right now they are disobeying his plans to withdraw thousands of troops from Afghanistan.
Someone from the world of cinema in the Nixon era quoting New York Times sources and refers to conservatives as alt-right is not someone I take seriously, nor should anyone else. Knowing they face defeat in three weeks, the Democrat Party is furiously fanning the fantasy fires it has created. You can tell from the desperation in their eyes.
I’m confused. I remember warmonger Richard Nixon, but is the writer alluding to the same Donald Trump who’s just been nominated for the FOURTH time for a Nobel Peace Prize, this time by Finnish MEP, Laura Huhtasaari?
“President Trump has served almost a complete presidential term without starting a new war,” Huhtasaari said. “This would be the first time in almost four decades when the President of the United States of America has served a term without engaging his country to new conflict.”
If only he were black he could’ve got one merely for being elected; like Obama.
To Obama’s credit, he had the decency to look as baffled as the rest of us on acceptance!
By stating they refuse to accept a defeat at the polls the Dems are setting the scene for chaos not even the military can control. Were Trump to do the same his chances of keeping power are higher than the Dems. They have made their hatred and fear of the 62m Trump voters clear. That’s a lot of people to take on in a country awash with anti-personnel firearms ( as opposed to game hunting ones). The only natural Dem supporters who are well-armed are the drug gangs, and their support is conditional on promised softer sentencing for their foot soldiers. Their leaders and managers are naturally at the de-regulated end of capitalism, and their ranks do what they’re told or else. I hope it doesn’t come to this but as i have said many times far left politics is not electable in the richest 3rd of the world. They only have one option if they want power and it remains to be seen if they are capable of using it.
Like I’ve pointed out before. Our founders made a point of ensuring that we American citizens have access to military arms in part to be prepared for times such as these.
The left make it out like it is about hunting. It is not. The constitution states that the purpose of the 2nd amendment forbidding the Government from disarming the people is to ensure a “well regulated militia” the definition of which is a well provisioned military force consisting of all citizens.
Lets hope that thin but very strong line is maintained. As far as i know the USA remains the only country where the Government is in place on the suffeance of its citizens, rather than inspite of them. British passport holders, for example, are “subjects” with no bill of rights for protecting their freedoms and no more constitutional rights than the subjects of Putin or the King of Saudi Arabia.
…and yet this President has negotiated the first Middle East peace treaties in 25 years.
Well that is why the military doesn’t like him. Peace is the last thing they want. I have just watched a Jimmy Dore podcast telling us that a leading military figure called Milly is openly opposing Trump’s plans to withdraw troops from Afghanistan. They are already disobeying him.
They are not peace treaties but in Trumps fantasy. Those parties have not been in war with each other.
So it worked!!
Well, that’s not really accurate is it? The countries that made peace with Israel through the Abraham accords have never before recognized Israel’s right to exist, much less agreed to trade with it. I understand that the conventional wisdom in DC for many years had been that there could be no such recognition prior to the resolution of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict but the accords have made clear that is not the case.
In order to carry out a successful coup, Trump would have to have the strong backing of the US military, or a private army, as Hitler did. Trump has neither. Therefore, there will be no coup. However, it’s so exciting to talk about one and get all lathered up!
Wow, these comments are so disappointing. I am new to Unherd and came here tired of partisan bickering and nasty comments to articles. Lighten up, it was a nice historic piece that gave this reader some insight into Nixon and how we might handle a president off the deep end, Republican or Democrat.
I hear you. Unherd articles tend to be sober and thought-worthy. The comment section, on the other hand…
Trump is the only President since Carter not to start a war, so hes probably not that popular in the Pentagon.
I have no confidence that the Dems are any less insane than the President. The immediate future looks very scary.
I was hoping The Simpsons would be heard from.
doh
Given these concerns, you’d think that addressing fears of electoral / postal fraud would rank pretty high up the todo list. In theory nobody is in favour of vote fraud, so it should be a bi-partisan issue. Voting booths are rather famously separated by big barriers, just like restaurant tables now (in some parts of the world at least) so COVID hardly seems like an excuse.
The general disdain the US Democrats have towards anything that might improve electoral integrity, or even just placate those who are worried about it, is rather shocking. They even hate basic things like checking ID papers, calling it racist. Contested elections and the breakdown of democracy are inevitable if people stop believing votes are correctly counted – they should have no higher priority than ensuring security of the ballot, yet they seem almost wilfully to insist on almost anything that would undermine it. Even saying that they won’t report how many votes were collected for days after the results! That’s mad.
I long for a return of the time of nuance… an ability to acknowledge the good and bad that Trump represents; the the good and bad that Biden represents…
Much utter nonsense consuming the press. On Jan 20 there will either be an elected President or an interim, the Speaker. That person will then be the only one with the authority to issue orders in the Executive. If Biden wins, he can decide what to do should Trump try to stay. He may wait him out of the WH by laying siege as employees there leave or he may order immediate eviction. Few think Trump would elect that confrontation. If the legal battles rage on with indecision on the date, the Speaker could do many things but the public ire will hamper any response. Even the gloating partisan press may learn public displeasure, perhaps at gunpoint. The military will slow-roll all involved awaiting stability ignoring anything short of external threat.
The instability being created by partisans and the press is quite risky in terms of external opportunists. An outraged public or even half the public may be difficult to control.
I found Trump to be repulsive and was perplexed how he was voted in. I do not believe he represented the best of us but I can’t deny the achievements. We didn’t march off to any new war. When he went too far, such as the environmental appointment, he changed course under pressure. Then a friend who is Uighur, and thus Muslim, told me that their plight was finally being addressed by the Trump administration. Middle East talks were mind blowing. An Israeli friend said the talks have been going on for some time. But as I told her, the ‘talks’ needed a president who was willing to accept the scorn to come and she agreed. Then came news that Taiwan, concerned about their sovereignty under a Biden victory, started buying military equipment under the radar. Watching what is happening in Hong Kong their concerns are justified. It became real that who is the US president may matter to the sovereignty of other nations. I am hoping a Biden’s presidency goes well. Not just for us in the US but for other nations as well.
I felt the same way, I wasn’t excited about either Clinton or Trump but felt like with Trump we could avoid more wars and bring troops home. I also appreciated the economic benefits of the Trump presidency particularly for those low on the economic ladder. The Middle East progress was indeed amazing. I too hope every presidency goes well, including Biden’s.
Mattis was fired as Secretary of Defense for disobeying orders.