I spent much of September in a blissfully tourist-free Italy, returning briefly to London to eat some green vegetables and pick up some new clothes. In early October, I flew back, this time to Sicily, desperate to steer as clear as possible of Britain as it lurched back into the Covid-19 nightmare. Our slurry of virus containment measures seemed almost too silly and ineffectual to be true.
Friends in the North were stupefied by pubs remaining open but only for members of the same households; the ever-more frantic, disorganised feeling of local lockdowns smacked of tinkering while Rome (or Liverpool) burned, and the tier system looked farcically Hancockian. Meanwhile virus rates were surging and we promised — in hideous replay — to once again become the worst-affected country in Europe.
Compared to this, Italy seemed (almost) perfect, with a fraction of the daily rates of other European countries, including our own (around 2,000 a day in September compared to 8,000 in Britain). The trauma of being the first badly-hit country in the West had produced a rigorous alertness that held strong even as restrictions were eased. In September, arriving in Rome, I marvelled at the way people wore their masks over both nose and mouth, and did so without fail in enclosed spaces and often outdoors too.
Generally, Italian rules and regulations were fair and sensible (heavy on masks and temperature checks) if a bit bonkers (packed restaurants and bars were fine, so long as the masks went on for trips to the loo). Since I could mosey round a near-empty Greek amphitheatre and sit outside sipping Aperol ’til midnight with friends, the noisy maskiness, constant temperature checks and endless form-filling were a small price to pay. In London, by contrast, mask-wearing was erratic and sloppy even on the Tube. Our track and trace system had already bombed too; Italy’s, by contrast, was working well, targeting all family and friends of those who tested positive, rather than relying on remembered close contacts.
But now, as Italy finds itself catching up on the rest of Europe — 24,991 cases have been reported in the last 24 hours — the perspective has sharply changed. It is no longer possible to look on the country as admirably competent, if eccentric, in its virus-suppression efforts, compared to dire Britain. It now feels both out of control (like Britain) and, courtesy of a volley of recent “decrees”, scarily repressive (unlike Britain).
Since early October, Italy has been passing Covid emergency diktats, effective immediately but of dubious sense, at an alarming pace. For instance, in a departure from most scientific evidence, which suggests that virus transmissibility is minimal outdoors, masks were made mandatory outside as well as inside. People of different households can still meet inside, however, so the rule made no sense, and came across as a spiteful exercise of state power.
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Subscribeit is fascinating how these tactics imply that the virus will go away if people only hide from it long enough, never mind the social and economic cost with doing that. Part of the problem lies with the citizenry – too many people respond to anything by demanding that govt “do something,” willingly outsourcing all risk to an unaccountable third party. There is no such thing as 100% risk-free living.
A few things governments could have done since March: ensure supplies of PPE that inhibit transmission of virus; ensure care homes can rely on permanent staff who work in one care home only; ensure that best practice in treating patients is spread through NHS; improve hygiene in hospitals by establishing new procedures for hospital visits; technical support for companies who want to increase home working; outdoor exercise programmes to reduce obesity; social care for isolating single elderly people. There is plenty that the government could have done and told the nation about what they were doing. These measures though would have required critical thinking back in the Spring. Something that senior Civil Servants are paid a lot of money to provide.
Those measures would have required focusing on where the greatest threat was – to the old, the sick, and the weakened. So, of course, the only rational solution was to shut down schools and businesses. How wonderful to be one of these civil servants and never have to face the consequences of the rules you impose on others.
No such thing as risk-free living, indeed.
I was struck by the references in the article to bars and drinking and I think there is a clear parallel to draw here.
People generally accept the significant risks of alcohol to society (both to drinkers themselves and to the potential victims of alcohol-related violence or accidents). In time I think we will all accept the risks of socialising to society.
Socialising IS society.
Mask, no mask, 6pm, 10pm indoors, outdoors, same household, different household. The virus doesn’t care about any of those things. All these measures are useless in the long run.
Govrnments have been pretending to have an effect over the spread of the virus, but really they just do not want to be accused of doing nothing. Therefore, we end up running around like headless chickens taking ‘measures’
When the number of cases went down at the beginning of the summer, people were quick to say it was because of the measures (even though in Sweden they also went down). Instead of a mixture of lower transmission rate (because of summer) and partially acquired herd immunity.
“Generally, Italian rules and regulations were fair and sensible ____ if a bit bonkers” So which was it? Then: “In London, by contrast, mask-wearing was erratic and sloppy” The writer seems to believe these measures work but I would call them Correlation rather than causation. All the West Pacific the death rate seems to be about 3 per million, where it is 200 times higher in the Western Nations. I have deduced it must be Chopsticks! The main commonality in China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, the 3 per million Nations, eating with chopsticks. If Italy would just add that it would have covid beaten.
Bit of a silly article. BJ has a dreadful reputation at this stage for u-turning but the one thing I really appreciate about him is his clear lack of enthusiasm for repression and locking us up. I compare his response to that of the Victorian Premier who has been on a mega powertrip since July with risible infection numbers. These nutty measures are entirely pointless and ineffectual – And not because the young are selfish or there are lots of wicked libertarians not following the rules, or whatever other favorite blame game the lockdown zealots and mask nazis want to play. I am endlessly amazed at just how compliant the vast majority of people are. There is very little revolution in the air anywhere regardless of country. People just want their lives back and will do whatever they think will help that. As for these measures! Totally pointless. This is a respiratory virus in the season when respiratory viruses start to spread. It is cheerfully doing what it does and nothing we are doing or can do is going to stop that. In fact I would say measures like mass mandatory mask wearing is likely to be the equivalent of killing all the cats during the bubonic plague. I am just waiting for a scientist to do the proper study and conclude mandatory masking of the population, not only does not help but actually encourages the spread of disease. I look at Italy and what I see is case numbers skyrocketed with the onset of manadatory masks everywhere, 4,000 approx beginning of Oct to 24,000 approx end of October. The result of one month of wearing masks everywhere. Clearly a good move! I have also already had a bad bout of a coronavirus called the common cold after coming back from Italy where I wore a mask everywhere.
Masks are a danger, in several ways, firstly the belief they will protect (some protection IF worn properly and of a high enough ‘grade’, but then the eye’s are also an infection route), secondly masks are a know route for bacterial lung infections, change masks regularly, clean and sterilise effectively or replace as soon as damp.
A rather disappointing article. Every government around the world is simply presenting more ‘positive’ test results as evidence of cases, when we know there have been numerous accounts of people submitting unused test kits, and they have been tested as ‘positive’. The system is rigged and crooked, with no accountability and is simply following an agenda. Italians have thousands of years of oppression in their make up……whereas we, along with the French haven’t.
I’m no fan of blanket lockdowns but don’t be too niave about our previous freedoms compared to others. Many countries have various equivalents to Magna Carter, Reformation, The Bill of Rights etc.
The mask mandate has failed in Italy – as it has failed in other places. This is hardly a surprise as the virus is vastly smaller than the holes in the fabric of the masks. But rather than admitting failure – governments are resorting to more and more totalitarian methods.
Both medical doctors (not just Dr Zelenko – but many others who make up such organisations as “America’s Front Line Doctors”) and academic scientists such as Professor Harvey Risch of Yale, have suggested another approach. EARLY treatment of Covid 19 – before the disease gets a grip on the body. EARLY treatment with hydroxychloroquine, zinc sulphate and (for non Covid problems that may hit a person in their weakened state) either azithromycin or doxycycline, does seem to work. But the international establishment seem stuck in their “Early treatment means TRUMP! So it is EVIL – Death to the Orange Man!” position.
spot on comments
Big Pharma want us to be so desperate for one of their vaccines that we will instruct our governments to pay any price however high. The success of other now generic medicines in the treatment is something Big Pharma and their supporters in government wish to hide.
whitty &Vallance both have Shares in Big Pharma.. Virus will largely be like nailing ”Jelly to the wall” it will mutate , most will be immune, and within 18 months most Will be immune to it?..but I m not a scientist..Professor carl heneghan, Sunetra gupta are more measured in approach&solution. ONLY Isolation hospitals will Cut number of Admissions and Keep Underlying diseases under control
“Big Pharma” is deliberately decimating the world’s economy in cahoots with all its governments? Do you know where I can buy some good quality tin hats?
Here in Italy the media propaganda is on fascism levels.
test positive because of 35x amplification cycles (it’s 25 in Germany)
news of overflowed ICU (it’s 18% occupancy now)
overflowed ER in Milan (last week 65% of admitted were on green code, that means they had nothing and were dimissed on maximum 9 hours)
Nothing has been done to improve the public health care system, after years of cuts to favour the private, and now they are just closing schools, theater, gyms, cinemas even if these were all heavy controlled settings with minimal reported cases.
The worst part: italians are normally hypochondriac and ignorants, so they are terrified and too many pensioners and governement workers invoke lockodowns and blame normal people for not respecting rules (while they mostly behave correctly, including idiotically wearing a mask while walking all alone in the street)
The only hope is the rising protest in the streets, because the economy is mainly based of small business that are quickly failing
Zoe, you should have paid more attention to European football over the years. Anybody who follows football knows just how brutal the Italian police can be.
For some idiotic reason the Allies “let off ” Italy in 1945.
Thus there were no War Crimes Trials for the atrocities committed by Benito Mussolini and his pathetic cronies, as there should have been.
Instead attention was diverted to the German chastisement of Communist Italian terrorists/partisans.
Unsurprisingly, the various over dressed Italian Police Forces thus feel immune from any criticism, and behave accordingly.
Mussolini and many of his cronies did not survive to stand trial. They had been summarily executed by Italians. Nor can the Mussolini government be accused of participating in the Final Solution. Jews were transported to death camps but by the Germans after the Germans had taken over Italy. Of course there had been war crimes committed in Africa. However, in 1945 the British did not consider gassing non-whites as war crimes.
I was thinking about the bestial Italian activity in both Albania and Greece, as well as Ethiopia.
Off course, as you correctly say we were indifferent to the Ethiopian atrocities. Hardly surprising when you think we still had Mau Mau in Kenya to come, and the somewhat excessive reaction we executed in that squalid campaign.
The stories of the Free French North African soldiers treatment of civilians in the fighting up Italy are pretty horrible, more like the Russians in Germany, but then what can one do Post Total War to get Justice? It is too big for that.
Yes, they did the same when occupying the Rhineland in 1919.
My Cousin and her husband had a successful Airport Taxi service completely destroyed by the Lockdown. Please don’t say “a blissfully tourist-free Italy” that’s people’s jobs and businesses destroyed
Giuseppe Conte is another unelected Italian Prime Minister appointed by the EU.
Lockdowns don’t work read on
Oct 29th Crucial Viral Update: European Focus BUT Principles Universal!
Ivor Cummins
YOU TUBE watch?v=Tq3AaceihtI
The title says it all – just the data and science, as always – and understandable by laypeople. That’s what we need right now – right?
I love Ivor Cummins. He should be give the job as Covid Advisor to the whole of the EU
Just more evidence that all the measures are a nonsense, whilst Sweden continues to show the right way, but never gets mentioned by anyone imposing or demanding yet more pointless measures.
And Belarus from the numbers, the other European (of a sort) non-lockdown country.
While I am proud of my country’s stalwart refusal to panic, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that other Nordic countries (with roughly similar climate and culture) imposed harsher measures and have a fraction of our Covid fatalities per capita. The measures clearly do something, even if you can argue about whether they do enough to be worth the cost.
The Police are not very successful at catching what you or I would recognise as criminals.
The corvid emergency is a wonderful opportunity to appear successful by harassing easily apprehendible citizens and being seen ,( by themselves ) to be virtuous .
It’s called picking low hanging fruit .
If the writer had been paying attention during the spring lockdown she might have picked up that Italy, France and Spain were treating lockdown rather more seriously than in the UK. Children in Spain couldn’t leave their home for several weeks! I read one article early on from a Brit in Spain complaining that he was stopped by the Guardia Civil for JOGGING home from the pharmacy! (Outdoor exercise totally against the rules you see).
Clearly their authoritarian approach had no more success than our own. I suspect that if you really want a ‘circuit break’ you need to go nuclear,. like the Chinese did in Wuhan. Actually lock people up by preventing them leaving home.
We barely have enough police to catch genuine criminals in this country – so good luck trying that approach!
The Chinese did not stop covid by Lockdowns and masks. Look at worldometers for Vietnam 0.3 deaths per million! China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Thailand, 3 deaths per million where it is 200 times higher in the Western Nations! They have that long proposed but not yet proven, ‘Dark Matter Immunity’ from covid being endemic there for ever, rather like the Europeans decimating the new world natives by diseases which were no issue to the habituated Old Worlders. This is never mentioned in the covid coverage, or is said to be masks or such done right, and proof of how lazy and sloppy Westerners are.
Italians take pride in breaking rules, they even have a word for it: “furbo”. It’s cunning or craftiness applied to bend the rules and find the loopholes. On the other hand, they are afraid of authority. Bad news from the tax office, the police (in its myriad forms) or governmental agencies is often given by registered letter. Italians are fearful of the note from postman asking them to collect registered mail.
must watch –
Dr Mike Yeadon Former CSO & VP Allergy Respiratory Research Pfizer Global R&D 29th Oct 2020
explaind there are no excess deaths – the pandemic is over
you tube watch?v=5y51GICqL9E
Am I the only one wondering what the author was/is doing in Italy moving from one city to the next?
Sounds like she was doing dinner and drinks.
‘Generally, Italian rules and regulations were fair and sensible…if a bit bonkers (packed restaurants and bars were fine, so long as the masks went on for trips to the loo)’.
Public lavatories are the only place that I’ve been glad to have a mask…
Suicides on the Rise In Italy and Britain due to Lockdown
The launch of Recovery For Hope For Balance – Emma Kenny ITV This Morning Psychologist & Presenter
You Tube watch?v=RFezwz9oz6I
Our “virus-related problems” have nothing to do with the government.
Browse ourworldindata.org and it is obvious that geography, for whatever reason, has a far greater effect than policy. In most European populations you seem to end up with several hundred deaths per million inhabitants, whether you have a strict lockdown (Spain, 758) or no lockdown (Sweden, 586). In most of Africa you get at most a few tens of deaths per million, whether you have a strict lockdown (Angola, 8) or no lockdown (Malawi, 9).
Please, can we finally drop the Medieval anthropocentrism?
I think there a couple of important points in Africa; younger population and pre-existing exposure to diseases. You’re right in that this does suggest that facors outside human control are more important
The author may be right about Italy, the ruling by decree and Police enforcement.
However to claim the UK is better is either extremely niave or scary, we have rule by decree and an over zealous police force – not just for Covid. Unelected committees/quangos control people’s lives, and the police/CPS ignore or stretch laws to suit their agenda. Thus we see certain people never prosecuted for serious crimes, whilst others who are disliked are hounded via stretching laws.
If Italy is worse than this, god help them.
I wonder if when Boris said “very difficult to ask the British population uniformly to obey guidelines in the way that it is necessary” he was seeing this as his challenge to overcome, like some old colonial ruler dispairing that the natives still have illusions of power.
Just some so called journalist slagging off Boris and the UK here, when actually things could be a lot worse
********
Write to Your OWN and EVERY MP and say “In a reasonable worst case scenario I will NEVER VOTER CONSERVATIVE (LABOUR, …) AGAIN
Better than doing nothing
Leaving aside the obvious question about why Zoe Strimpel is happily jetting around Europe during a pandemic, the article implies some kind of fascist police state mentality that doesn’t exist in freedom-loving Blighty. The truth, at least in Italy, is very different. My personal experience is that the Italians are largely more law-abiding, socially responsible and importantly more sober than their English counterparts. Granted they tend to have a more hyperchondriac nature, but for the most part they follow the rules because it’s the best thing for the greater good. In contrast, the repeated refrain I hear on UK TV, radio and press is along the lines “who’s going to make me?”.
Endless conversations about police powers, fines and the ability of Tesco employees to enforce mask-wearing etc speaks to a much more selfish and inconsiderate society.
I personally find this piece to be very weak. There is no substantial comparison between Britain and italy and I’m sorry, but there is a distinct difference between how sinister the italian government’s action is and the fact that italians don’t love freedom (???), there’s no cause-and-effect here. Saying Johnson was right makes no sense in any way. We haven’t been able to follow the rules in Britain because it’s a much more individualistic society and this has been clear since day one. I’d rather be sinister and tell people to wear a mask on the tube than not wear it and be hailed as a lover of freedom. Lastly, although you may not like to be told by the police to wear a mask, if that is the law, then that’s just about right. Let’s criticise things in a more sensible and intelligent way please.
You say individualistic, I say liberal.
Most European societies have a long track record of welcoming authoritarianism to a greater or lesser extent stretching back centuries. Not so in Britain. Not for me to say if that’s better or worse, but it is a fact and sets Anglo-societies somewhat apart.
Also reference your point about the police and mask. Yes agree in the basic sense that it’s the police doing what they are told. But do you mean that it’s the law so people should just accept it? A large proportion of the most heinous crimes of history were “legal”.
The police (snr officers) only enforce the laws when they agree with them, hence some peaceful protesters are violently attacked and fined whilst violent protesters are knelt to and any charges ‘not in the public interest’.
Lastly, although you may not like to be told by the police to wear a mask, if that is the law, then that’s just about right.
Slavery used to be the law. So was denying certain people the vote. Being law does not make something right. Besides, there are no laws about masks, just edicts from on high. That’s not how legislation works in a democratic system.
Perhaps so, but the low level of positives in London shows that masks on the tube is not a really significant factor, is it?
I find this kind of comparisons between “good people” and “bad people” really unhelpful.
Oh how things changed…