I will say to begin with that I am an admirer of Diane Purkiss’ history of the English Civil War and Anne Applebaum’s histories of Eastern Europe under communism; but am unconvinced by this notion of ”restorative nostalgia”. It is the type of attitude attributed to Brexiters by Remainers, so should immediately be treated with extreme scepticism. To me the central issue of the Brexit vote was putting the brakes on a direction of travel – ever-closer union within the EU – and restoring sovereignty, not restoring some fictional idealised view of the past. Most people, I believe, are well aware that we live in the present and are stuck with it: but shaping the future is something we can, and should, participate in. I find Matthew Goodwin’s explanation for Boris Johnson’s popularity more convincing than the one posited here (Why Boris Johnson keeps on winning). I doubt Johnson will succeed in slimming down the British people, sadly. As for prawn cocktail crisps; I’m not a fan.
Few years back (Sunday politics show) Andrew Neil interviewed the leader of the local UKIP party (some sea resort town, I don’t remember the name). Her argument was: when i grew up here (50s/60s) people used to come for vacation. No one comes anymore. Government should do something about it. When asked to provide possible solutions she couldn’t. Her position was pure nostalgia…unless of course she was lying. And her position explains why so many left behind areas voted Leave. Blackpool didn’t vote leave because it truly understand the Lisbon Treaty and its impact on the British constitution., unlike Oxbridge. There is a reason why older people voted overwhelmingly Leave, and younger people overwhelming voted Remain. Who is looking forward to the future?
Doubtless the UKIP representative’s attitude combined nostalgia for a remembered past with a not unreasonable desire for the government to do something to revive the area’s economy to create a better future for the entire community. There are hundreds/thousands of sadly decayed seaside resort towns across the country (though on the coast, obv) and our best political minds (haha) have for generations failed to provide a solution for their plight. The Oxford students/graduates I’ve met knew or cared little for the Lisbon Treaty and its IOTBC; but they did take frequent holidays to Europe, often staying in their parents’ Euro holiday homes, and would hate to suffer the inconvenience of having to queue to get to them.
Young people who voted to remain in the EU did so for the perceived benefits the bloc delivers to them. Doubtless many of the young who live in seaside towns voted leave; or they have left to build themselves a future elsewhere. I’m not sure if the actual numbers of young/old votes for leave/remain could honestly be described as ‘overwhelming’, though, I agree the difference is significant. Both sides are looking to the future; but from radically different places.
I have absolutely no doubt that the older people who voted Leave had a much greater understanding of the Lisbon Treaty than the younger people who voted Remain.
Ian Duncan Smith, MP, Elected by the British people and former Leader of the Tory Party. And a Leaver:
His Tweet , August 3, 2020 “. But it gets worse. Buried in the fine print, unnoticed by many, is the fact we remain hooked into the EU’s loan book.” Parliament Speech, 2019 “The reality is if there is anything about this arrangement that we have now not debated, thrashed to death, I’d love to know what it is.”
“haven’t read the small print,” the irony of your comment!
Just between you and me, I gave my copy of your book to a young author who was researching what has turned out to be a rather wonderful novel about the Manningtree Witches; which will be published next March.
There’s nothing I love more than inspiring historical fiction. Thank you for this.
nick harman
3 years ago
Boris’s articles were intended to be witty, humorous, a bit of hyperbole, some irony, a lot of tongue in cheek, some nose-tweaking of people who believe being serious all the time makes them look smart.
I very much doubt he actually likes prawn cocktail crisps, but it was fun to pretend he did. And it was a peg to hang a fun piece on
Fun. The author of this piece should try having some now and then.
To return to idea of ”restorative nostalgia” with regard to Poland’s past, for example: I mean, crikey. Unless we are talking about a wish to return to the golden days of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, surely Poland’s history has been an endless story of oppression by its more powerful neighbours (since the 18th century at least). Apart from periods of independence between 1919 and 1939, and the post-communist era since 1989, I’m not sure where this nostalgia would come from; unless it is nostalgia for a Parisian garret in the 19th century in which one can plot a romantic uprising against the Russians/Prussians or Austrians. If the nostalgia is for aspects of the recent post-communist era then surely the EU and its supporters, and Poland’s liberal political parties, should understand and try to address these issues; just as Britain’s politicians should examine the issues behind ‘populist nostalgia’ here, rather than simply dismissing the nostalgics as thick ‘gammons’ (an utterly vile term) harking for the past. If the pace and nature of change is alienating so many Poles, Britons, Spaniards etc, perhaps it is time to look more thoughtfully at how these changes are impacting on people’s lives and be more honest about these negative impacts.
“..Poland’s history has been an endless story of oppression by its more powerful neighbors..” Sorry Paul, Poland played the game of Great Powers and it lost. If you ignore the days of Polish expansion toward Eastern Orthodox territories you are right. – EU is extremely popular with Polish people – at least according to every single poll. PiS has made it very clear that is fully committed to EU membership. – EU is very popular in Spain too, again polls.
I presume the days of Polish expansion to which you refer preceded the 18th century and the rise of Russia, or perhaps you refer to the brief war with Russia in 1921(?); anyway I am no expert on Polish history… I’m commenting on this idea of ”restorative nostalgia” rather than suggesting any desire on the part of Poland or Spain to reject the EU; or any wish on my part that they should do so. It dismisses the concerns of so-called populists without any consideration of what is really going on: they are simply a bit stupid, and yearn for a ”cartoon version of history… right now”. I was asking; what version of history are Polish populists yearning for exactly? If people want to support the EU then by all means do so; but try to understand your fellow Europeans rather than denigrating them. BTW, the ”sorry Paul” is extremely patronising, and unnecessary.
Poland’s era of greatness can said to have started in 1386, when the Grand Duke of Lithuania, converted to Catholicism, and married the Polish Princess, thus uniting the two states. There first triumph was to hammer the wretched Teutonic Knights into the ground at Grunwald (Tannenberg) in 1410 ( five years before Agincourt for us).
By the treaty of Lublin in 1569 a full, formal federal union was established, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, considered to be one of greatest states in contemporary Europe. Perhaps their ultimate triumph was to capture Moscow in 1610 and hold it for two years. Their famous military formations were the regiments of ‘Winged Hussars’.
Sadly thanks to an astonishingly selfish aristocracy and an utterly absurd governmental system things then went rapidly downhill, resulting in the first partition in 1772, the second in 1793 and final extinction in 1795
However, ultimately, the corpse was resuscitated after 124 years in 1919.
Dr Anne Kelley
3 years ago
It’s one thing to express populist views when there are no repercussions, a quite different matter when you need to take responsibility for the welfare of the population. In fairness to Boris Johnson, he has accepted that he needs to be a serious politician in his current role, and I do believe he is doing his best. The Government’s policies will please some, others not so much – more or less the same as every other Government I have lived through.
It’s one thing to be a journalist and another a PM
Warren Alexander
3 years ago
Johnson has gone from Battling Boris to Nanny Doris in the blink of an eye
Cheryl Jones
3 years ago
It’s funny that ‘identity’ is seen as parochial and backward if championed by (white) native Brits yet these same people will extol the importance and virtues of black or other foreign identity over our own and see it as an imperative to preserve, reclaim and champion them, without any irony whatsoever.
bob alob
3 years ago
I don’t really see the point of this article, Johnson has different responsibilities now he has become prime minister, and over the past months he has also been in close contact with medical professionals, experts and advisers, having been severely affected by the virus himself, not surprisingly he has changed on the food subject. I would’t class Boris Johnson as a Gammon either, he is too “posh”, the insult is normally used to describe people more working class by those re moaners who believe they know better than rest of us.
The article defines my own feelings perfectly. I voted for Boris with great enthusiasm for his freewheeling libertarianism, but after his spell in hospital he has turned into a crazed and capricious despot. I have not been so disappointed by a politician in fifty years.
The latest idea, that because he has decided he is too fat the whole country must go on a diet, is just the most blatant and ludicrous indication.
Indeed the whole thing is class war except the working classes are not on the offensive, or being as offensive, as the London middle classes
tomscott444
3 years ago
The obesity strategy won’t work because these ideas have been tried before and they never work. Banning advertising will just see the end of many of our commercial TV channels.
Banning BOGOFs won’t work either because they will simply become, buy two, get both half price, or whatever. That’s business – its their job to sell stuff.
However, easy access to NHS weight loss services may well help.
The lesson is, offer help to people that want it, leave those alone who are happy to be jellybottoms and leave those of us alone who enjoy the occasional BOGOF cream cakes.
Are you the sort of guy who farts loudly during a Jazz concert? Whether the music in question is sublime or “experimental” the effort put in to the performance should at least be respected.
I’ll start by saying I voted remain in the referendum and the result shocked me. I was not however prepared to to accept that the majority in favour were were stupid or prejudiced etc and I set out to educate myself. The most convincing explanation I found was in David Goodhart’s book ‘The Road to Somewhere’ and in my opinion subsequent events have borne this out. The liberal elite have overreached themselves. I have been dismayed that a vocal number of remain voters have been unable to see past their own self interest but rather maintain a false narrative trying to dismiss the very real concerns of the majority of the population with sneering condescension. For example calling people ‘gammon’ and talking about ‘restorative nostalgia’. I have lived in a few of these communities and the people who live there deserve respect not derision. They don’t hark back to the good old days because they know they were hard but they value their communities and their localities. I spent part of my childhood in the Rother valley in the heyday of Arthur Scargill and the idea that those those communities would ever vote tory was fanciful so what has made them? It is not because they are idiots or bigots but because they are decent principled people whose interests have been trivialised and demeaned to a level where a discussion focuses on the merits or otherwise of prawn cocktail crisps. A serious debate on how to restore some sort of balance and fairness and tolerance and respect would be helpful but it needs to start with facts rather than hyperbole.
Surely gammon is not as offensive as traitor. Their interests have not been trivialized, vast amount of money is transferred to the Left Behind areas from London (mostly) and SE England. The sad reality is that there is little than any government can do about the Left Behind areas. Unless you make vacations in the Med illegal how are you going to fix Blackpool and Co? If I run for MP in Blackpool and HONESTLY tell the people that there isn’t much I (we) can do about the city how many of them will vote for me?
I think the ‘red wall’ turnaround is an interesting factor. Many commentators have talked about Russian interference and facebook manipulation to explain the election result. How any (sane) intelligent person could possibly think that die-hard long-term labour constituencies could vote blue based on some social media posts is beyond me. Previously, they wouldn’t have voted Tory if someone paid them, let alone ‘influenced’ them. Only a radical and obvious abandonment by Labour can account for it.
Thank you for coming back – I respect what you say, though I don’t think it refutes what I wrote. I am no more at ease with globalisation than you are. I might have voted Leave if it had been a campaign against the pursuit of higher and higher levels of GDP. It’s not foolish to be a somewhere. The issue is more why some Somewheres have faith in Johnson, who seems to me more of an Anywhere.
To be clear, I’m not saying I think this is foolish! I disagree with many things that are NOT stupid, and I am not all-knowing.
Agree. I voted Remain too but accepted the result. The 4 years since have horrified me so much and led me to really read up on some things, and I’ve changed my mind. I think the public’s instincts were spot on and I was a coward who fell for project fear. Remoaners – you have no one to blame but yourselves.
I will say to begin with that I am an admirer of Diane Purkiss’ history of the English Civil War and Anne Applebaum’s histories of Eastern Europe under communism; but am unconvinced by this notion of ”restorative nostalgia”. It is the type of attitude attributed to Brexiters by Remainers, so should immediately be treated with extreme scepticism. To me the central issue of the Brexit vote was putting the brakes on a direction of travel – ever-closer union within the EU – and restoring sovereignty, not restoring some fictional idealised view of the past. Most people, I believe, are well aware that we live in the present and are stuck with it: but shaping the future is something we can, and should, participate in.
I find Matthew Goodwin’s explanation for Boris Johnson’s popularity more convincing than the one posited here (Why Boris Johnson keeps on winning).
I doubt Johnson will succeed in slimming down the British people, sadly. As for prawn cocktail crisps; I’m not a fan.
Few years back (Sunday politics show) Andrew Neil interviewed the leader of the local UKIP party (some sea resort town, I don’t remember the name). Her argument was: when i grew up here (50s/60s) people used to come for vacation. No one comes anymore. Government should do something about it.
When asked to provide possible solutions she couldn’t. Her position was pure nostalgia…unless of course she was lying.
And her position explains why so many left behind areas voted Leave.
Blackpool didn’t vote leave because it truly understand the Lisbon Treaty and its impact on the British constitution., unlike Oxbridge.
There is a reason why older people voted overwhelmingly Leave, and younger people overwhelming voted Remain. Who is looking forward to the future?
Yes, precisely. Nobody thinks restorative nostalgia explains every Brexit vote, but it does explain some of them.
Have to give you an upvote for bravery.
Reading the comments attached to your article is rather reckless mind.
I strongly believe in debate and discussion.
Doubtless the UKIP representative’s attitude combined nostalgia for a remembered past with a not unreasonable desire for the government to do something to revive the area’s economy to create a better future for the entire community. There are hundreds/thousands of sadly decayed seaside resort towns across the country (though on the coast, obv) and our best political minds (haha) have for generations failed to provide a solution for their plight.
The Oxford students/graduates I’ve met knew or cared little for the Lisbon Treaty and its IOTBC; but they did take frequent holidays to Europe, often staying in their parents’ Euro holiday homes, and would hate to suffer the inconvenience of having to queue to get to them.
Young people who voted to remain in the EU did so for the perceived benefits the bloc delivers to them. Doubtless many of the young who live in seaside towns voted leave; or they have left to build themselves a future elsewhere. I’m not sure if the actual numbers of young/old votes for leave/remain could honestly be described as ‘overwhelming’, though, I agree the difference is significant.
Both sides are looking to the future; but from radically different places.
“Both sides are looking to the future”
But, one side will not be around for the future.
I have absolutely no doubt that the older people who voted Leave had a much greater understanding of the Lisbon Treaty than the younger people who voted Remain.
Yes, they were gloriously fighting WW2 ( in 2016) led by Field Marshall Bill Cash.
Ah, the old “Leavers are stupid, idiots, thick, haven’t read the small print,” Lobby rises again. Thought it had gone a bit quiet
Ian Duncan Smith, MP, Elected by the British people and former Leader of the Tory Party. And a Leaver:
His Tweet , August 3, 2020
“. But it gets worse. Buried in the fine print, unnoticed by many, is the fact we remain hooked into the EU’s loan book.”
Parliament Speech, 2019
“The reality is if there is anything about this arrangement that we have now not debated, thrashed to death, I’d love to know what it is.”
“haven’t read the small print,” the irony of your comment!
Well obviously not the young! Did you when you were young?
I read the Goodwin piece and found it unconvincing. Thank you for your kind words about the English Civil War.
Just between you and me, I gave my copy of your book to a young author who was researching what has turned out to be a rather wonderful novel about the Manningtree Witches; which will be published next March.
There’s nothing I love more than inspiring historical fiction. Thank you for this.
Boris’s articles were intended to be witty, humorous, a bit of hyperbole, some irony, a lot of tongue in cheek, some nose-tweaking of people who believe being serious all the time makes them look smart.
I very much doubt he actually likes prawn cocktail crisps, but it was fun to pretend he did. And it was a peg to hang a fun piece on
Fun. The author of this piece should try having some now and then.
I was with you all the way until your last paragraph; why do people need to be so bitchy.
Thankfully not all of us enjoy the same things.
To return to idea of ”restorative nostalgia” with regard to Poland’s past, for example: I mean, crikey. Unless we are talking about a wish to return to the golden days of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, surely Poland’s history has been an endless story of oppression by its more powerful neighbours (since the 18th century at least). Apart from periods of independence between 1919 and 1939, and the post-communist era since 1989, I’m not sure where this nostalgia would come from; unless it is nostalgia for a Parisian garret in the 19th century in which one can plot a romantic uprising against the Russians/Prussians or Austrians.
If the nostalgia is for aspects of the recent post-communist era then surely the EU and its supporters, and Poland’s liberal political parties, should understand and try to address these issues; just as Britain’s politicians should examine the issues behind ‘populist nostalgia’ here, rather than simply dismissing the nostalgics as thick ‘gammons’ (an utterly vile term) harking for the past. If the pace and nature of change is alienating so many Poles, Britons, Spaniards etc, perhaps it is time to look more thoughtfully at how these changes are impacting on people’s lives and be more honest about these negative impacts.
“..Poland’s history has been an endless story of oppression by its more powerful neighbors..”
Sorry Paul, Poland played the game of Great Powers and it lost. If you ignore the days of Polish expansion toward Eastern Orthodox territories you are right.
– EU is extremely popular with Polish people – at least according to every single poll. PiS has made it very clear that is fully committed to EU membership.
– EU is very popular in Spain too, again polls.
I presume the days of Polish expansion to which you refer preceded the 18th century and the rise of Russia, or perhaps you refer to the brief war with Russia in 1921(?); anyway I am no expert on Polish history…
I’m commenting on this idea of ”restorative nostalgia” rather than suggesting any desire on the part of Poland or Spain to reject the EU; or any wish on my part that they should do so. It dismisses the concerns of so-called populists without any consideration of what is really going on: they are simply a bit stupid, and yearn for a ”cartoon version of history… right now”. I was asking; what version of history are Polish populists yearning for exactly? If people want to support the EU then by all means do so; but try to understand your fellow Europeans rather than denigrating them.
BTW, the ”sorry Paul” is extremely patronising, and unnecessary.
Poland’s era of greatness can said to have started in 1386, when the Grand Duke of Lithuania, converted to Catholicism, and married the Polish Princess, thus uniting the two states.
There first triumph was to hammer the wretched Teutonic Knights into the ground at Grunwald (Tannenberg) in 1410 ( five years before Agincourt for us).
By the treaty of Lublin in 1569 a full, formal federal union was established, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, considered to be one of greatest states in contemporary Europe. Perhaps their ultimate triumph was to capture Moscow in 1610 and hold it for two years. Their famous military formations were the regiments of ‘Winged Hussars’.
Sadly thanks to an astonishingly selfish aristocracy and an utterly absurd governmental system things then went rapidly downhill, resulting in the first partition in 1772, the second in 1793 and final extinction in 1795
However, ultimately, the corpse was resuscitated after 124 years in 1919.
It’s one thing to express populist views when there are no repercussions, a quite different matter when you need to take responsibility for the welfare of the population. In fairness to Boris Johnson, he has accepted that he needs to be a serious politician in his current role, and I do believe he is doing his best. The Government’s policies will please some, others not so much – more or less the same as every other Government I have lived through.
It’s one thing to be a journalist and another a PM
Johnson has gone from Battling Boris to Nanny Doris in the blink of an eye
It’s funny that ‘identity’ is seen as parochial and backward if championed by (white) native Brits yet these same people will extol the importance and virtues of black or other foreign identity over our own and see it as an imperative to preserve, reclaim and champion them, without any irony whatsoever.
I don’t really see the point of this article, Johnson has different responsibilities now he has become prime minister, and over the past months he has also been in close contact with medical professionals, experts and advisers, having been severely affected by the virus himself, not surprisingly he has changed on the food subject.
I would’t class Boris Johnson as a Gammon either, he is too “posh”, the insult is normally used to describe people more working class by those re moaners who believe they know better than rest of us.
The article defines my own feelings perfectly. I voted for Boris with great enthusiasm for his freewheeling libertarianism, but after his spell in hospital he has turned into a crazed and capricious despot. I have not been so disappointed by a politician in fifty years.
The latest idea, that because he has decided he is too fat the whole country must go on a diet, is just the most blatant and ludicrous indication.
Yes agreed. Sadly Johnson has massively let us down and the Tories would be toast if only there was a less worse option.
Johnson looks like a man who really really wanted to be PM but doesn’t have the intelligence to govern.
From what I can gather, these types of measures never have much of an effect on obesity, like those before him he is just picking at the problem.
Indeed the whole thing is class war except the working classes are not on the offensive, or being as offensive, as the London middle classes
The obesity strategy won’t work because these ideas have been tried before and they never work. Banning advertising will just see the end of many of our commercial TV channels.
Banning BOGOFs won’t work either because they will simply become, buy two, get both half price, or whatever. That’s business – its their job to sell stuff.
However, easy access to NHS weight loss services may well help.
The lesson is, offer help to people that want it, leave those alone who are happy to be jellybottoms and leave those of us alone who enjoy the occasional BOGOF cream cakes.
What a load of nonsense.
What is? Be specific, give examples…4/10 Must try harder!
Are you the sort of guy who farts loudly during a Jazz concert?
Whether the music in question is sublime or “experimental” the effort put in to the performance should at least be respected.
Happy to discuss – I suggest you start.
I’ll start by saying I voted remain in the referendum and the result shocked me. I was not however prepared to to accept that the majority in favour were were stupid or prejudiced etc and I set out to educate myself. The most convincing explanation I found was in David Goodhart’s book ‘The Road to Somewhere’ and in my opinion subsequent events have borne this out. The liberal elite have overreached themselves.
I have been dismayed that a vocal number of remain voters have been unable to see past their own self interest but rather maintain a false narrative trying to dismiss the very real concerns of the majority of the population with sneering condescension. For example calling people ‘gammon’ and talking about ‘restorative nostalgia’. I have lived in a few of these communities and the people who live there deserve respect not derision. They don’t hark back to the good old days because they know they were hard but they value their communities and their localities. I spent part of my childhood in the Rother valley in the heyday of Arthur Scargill and the idea that those those communities would ever vote tory was fanciful so what has made them? It is not because they are idiots or bigots but because they are decent principled people whose interests have been trivialised and demeaned to a level where a discussion focuses on the merits or otherwise of prawn cocktail crisps.
A serious debate on how to restore some sort of balance and fairness and tolerance and respect would be helpful but it needs to start with facts rather than hyperbole.
Surely gammon is not as offensive as traitor.
Their interests have not been trivialized, vast amount of money is transferred to the Left Behind areas from London (mostly) and SE England.
The sad reality is that there is little than any government can do about the Left Behind areas. Unless you make vacations in the Med illegal how are you going to fix Blackpool and Co?
If I run for MP in Blackpool and HONESTLY tell the people that there isn’t much I (we) can do about the city how many of them will vote for me?
I think the ‘red wall’ turnaround is an interesting factor. Many commentators have talked about Russian interference and facebook manipulation to explain the election result. How any (sane) intelligent person could possibly think that die-hard long-term labour constituencies could vote blue based on some social media posts is beyond me. Previously, they wouldn’t have voted Tory if someone paid them, let alone ‘influenced’ them. Only a radical and obvious abandonment by Labour can account for it.
Thank you for coming back – I respect what you say, though I don’t think it refutes what I wrote. I am no more at ease with globalisation than you are. I might have voted Leave if it had been a campaign against the pursuit of higher and higher levels of GDP. It’s not foolish to be a somewhere. The issue is more why some Somewheres have faith in Johnson, who seems to me more of an Anywhere.
To be clear, I’m not saying I think this is foolish! I disagree with many things that are NOT stupid, and I am not all-knowing.
And I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Corbyn…
Agree. I voted Remain too but accepted the result. The 4 years since have horrified me so much and led me to really read up on some things, and I’ve changed my mind. I think the public’s instincts were spot on and I was a coward who fell for project fear. Remoaners – you have no one to blame but yourselves.