Mishra would appear to be just another UK/US/West hater. Academia is full of them. I just with these people would put their lifestyle where their mouths are and live for a few years without all the technology and medicine that evil white men invented.
Geoffrey Simon Hicking
3 years ago
I like the idea of us atoning and apologising for our failures.
I also like the idea of us celebrating and proclaiming our successes.
I wish the left would actually do this atoning they always talk about. One day they might even atone for Rotherham.
Mark Corby
3 years ago
Well done Mr Franklin for this interesting polemic, that clearly exposes the hypocritical tosh that passes for historical criticism of the ‘Anglo World’.In particular your exposure of Mishra, as nothing more than yet another, virulent anti- West shrieker, was a delight.
Perhaps he should marry Ms Gopal, the malignant Cambridge butterfly? They would get on famously. However that would be impossible, as that inestimable gift to civilisation, the Indian Caste system would get in the way, and Gopal, a Brahmin would be defiled, and probably have to self immolate.
For the past seventy five years, the triumphant Anglo World has presided over an era of peace and prosperity unparalleled since the days of Ancient Rome. We should celebrate our ‘exceptionalism’ not indulge in an orgy of self criticism. We have nothing to be ashamed of by comparative analysis with the ‘others’, or as Kipling put it so prosaically, “lesser breeds”.
One needs to be careful about quoting Recessional. After all what characterised for Kipling “lesser breeds without the Law” (an obvious Biblical allusion) was “such boastings as the Gentiles use”. The touchstone of the British Empire, according to that poem (written at its zenith to mark Queen Victoria’s Jubilee) was humility: “Lo all our pomp of yesterday is one with Nineveh and Tyre”… “still stands thine ancient sacrifice, an humble and a contrite heart”… “Lest we forget”. Perhaps, though, that is something which we do not have in common with the USA.
Yes, it was about their recent conquest of the Philippines, as a result of their overwhelming victory in the Spanish-American War.
D Glover
3 years ago
‘Boris Johnson and Donald Trump epitomise the decline of Anglo-America, the fact remains that both men can be voted out of office.’
Ursula von der Leyen became President of Europe under a procedure that can only be called a stitch-up. Macron and Merkel chose her; no other candidate was put before the Euro Parliament to be confirmed. She scraped through with the narrowest possible endorsement, with no other name on the ballot. Even Vladimir would blush.
zareermasani
3 years ago
Delighted to see Pankaj Mishra’s deeply unhistorical theories so thoroughly & intelligently taken apart & its internal contradictions so politely exposed.
Wonder if he bothered to read this…No didn’t think so.
Last edited 3 years ago by Andrew Thompson
Paul Blakemore
3 years ago
A most enjoyable essay, Mr Franklin, which prompts a couple of thoughts. The Leftist notion of our ”broken” society tends to be applied to evil England; the Scots and Welsh getting an exemption from the sins of our past because they now vote a little to the left of centre rather than a little to the right (inasmuch as the left/right dichotomy has meaning these days). As a continental nation, The United States is an empire within its own borders, like Russia, China and India, which creates a tendency towards greater authoritarianism in order to keep the nation whole. While Russia and China are truly authoritarian, the US balances its freedoms with heavily armed and sometimes violent/oppressive police and state forces (and I’m referring here to the past century rather than the current situation). It seems to me that if the EU achieves its ambition of becoming an empire it too will become more authoritarian and oppressive, prompting increased violence and inspiring an increase in nationalism (such as that seen in the former Austro-Hungarian empire in the 20th century, for example). The Europhiles (or Eurofetishists as they have now become) constantly demand we be ‘more European’; but surely would go beserk were Boris Johnson to announce the introduction of identity cards, the arming of the police or the introduction of an inquisitorial legal system. This would doubtless be evidence of his ‘fascism’.
David Bottomley
3 years ago
I’ve read Mishra’s article and my god, he hangs an awful lot on a tenuous thread which in itself hangs on the simple point that the current incumbents in USA and UK seem to be somewhat incapable of dealing with the pandemic. This is for completely different reasons though. To my mind Johnson has an inability to focus on more than one thing at a time and just couldn’t get his head round the fact that we faced an on coming disaster. The US on the other hand is cursed with a politics in which everything , whether disease, guns, climate etc, is seen through the simple lens of is it un-American , does it come from ‘the swamp’ and so on. To be fair to Johnson, the UK is now doing a lot better and leading on vaccine development . The rest of Mishra’s article seems to be pretty much your standard anti- west rant while conveniently ignoring a great number of ‘inconvenient truths’ about the rest of the world, including I might say, the role of African nations and people’s in capturing the slaves and selling them to the highest bidders. A practice which continued for some time after the west dropped out of the trade and the sellers looked for new buyers and markets.
While I agree with a lot of what you write the idea that ‘ the UK is leading on vaccine development ‘ will not be thought globally; it’s more of a Boris type sound bite. US & UK governments are frantic to find vaccines and treatments and apps so that their mishandling of the pandemic that has caused such high death tolls in both countries can be mitigated. Vast sums of money have been handed out by UK government on Apps and test & trace system run by Serco , both that have been demonstrated not to work effectively and other contracts too all which need investigating to see who and why these lucrative contracts were given. If you look at the Oxford vaccine and how it was tested initially on less than 10 monkeys all of which went on to develop C19 but did not go on to suffer the worst effects such as compromised lungs leading to death you might wonder why apart from money to be made, this vaccine is being pursued. Some UK scientists have suggested immunity conferred by actually contracting C19 only lasts for a few months as does immunity to the common cold, also caused by a corona virus. Why do not the UK government 1. Arrange effective hand sanitiser against viruses to be manufactured in bulk and be made readily available for sale at sensible,affordable prices. I have not been able to buy any on line and heard it said on BBC radio the most effective ones are available not in UK. 2. Similarly why not arrange manufacture of effective masks as described by WHO and sell them at a low price. UK needs masks that reduce transmission of virus not masks to encourage us it is safe to shop!
David George
3 years ago
Pankaj Mishra is not one for letting the facts get in the way of a good rant. His bizarre portrayal of Jordan Peterson as a “fascist mystic” “romancing the noble savage” was, I thought, a low point. Apparently not.
ukncsprog
3 years ago
Brilliant article. If I wanted to change anything it would be the extent to which America is differentiated from the rest of the Anglosphere. It’s just a matter of degree. It could be averred that the elections of Johnson and Trump suggest the nations are rather in step.
Boris really isn’t a nativist. When he was mayor of London he sang the praise of his city’s diversity. Back when he was pro-EU he wanted Turkey to be admitted. As PM he has appointed the most diverse cabinet ever seen. Nativists may vote Tory, but that’s because they have no real choice, Nigel having gifted all his votes to lucky Boris.
Boris Johnson (can’t bring myself to call him “Boris”) really isn’t anything. Here’s what he said about himself, describing his transparent alter ego in his semi-autobiographical fantasy of a novel, Seventy-Two Virgins:
“To a man like Roger Barlow the whole world just seemed to be a complicated joke “¦ everything was always up for grabs, capable of dispute; and religion, laws, principle, custom ““ these were nothing but sticks from the wayside to support our faltering steps.”
Here is an excellent piece by Mark Steyn which explains the accidental way Boris became a brexiteer. He didn’t think he’d win; he was just storing up credit for the post-Cameron shuffle. https://www.steynonline.com…
I have little faith in Boris Johnson but i do have *faith* in Brexit as a trigger to possible reform within the EU, especially when, as they are trying like mad to prevent right now in negotiations, the UK can adapt better to the post Covid-19 depression than I believe will be possible in Europe.
If it truly was a trade liberalisation and promotion community as one would imagine from the negotiations that are entirely couched in such language, then we wouldn’t have left.
If it were to become such at some stage in the future we would apply to rejoin. When it WAS that in the 1970s we voted 70% to remain in it.
I agree with everything you say, although on appointments, I have some suspicions that Munira Mirza and Suella Braverman may not be quite as diverse as they look. But the nativist element amongst the voters carries some real weight nowadays.
In UK, just as in the US, the native and ‘nativist’ demographic is an ageing and shrinking sector of the population. By the middle of this century the US will be white-minority and the election of a Trump will be an impossibility. UK too, I should think. The nativist element has nowhere to go.
T Arn
3 years ago
I read Mishra’s article and found it odd how much he praised Communism and authoritarianism while criticising democracy. I therefore thought that it would not be difficult to pick apart his argument. However, Mr Franklin shows an incredibly ignorant and ideological worldview which is just as bad, only on the other side.
Firstly, picking apart ‘Anglo-America’ is very pedantic as it is a commonly-used way of describing the US and Britain.
Secondly, I am afraid that trying to claim that the UK has coped as well as France, Spain and Italy with the pandemic is deluded. We had far more time to react to the issue and have done very little in comparison. Yes, we have a high population density but Mr Johnson literally ignored expert advice and simplified Covid to being as bad as flu up to mid-March!
Thirdly, if Mr Franklin has ever looked at a history of welfare systems there is a clear history of ideas which delineates the US and UK from European models. Read Thomas Esping-Andersen!! Saying that the US has a large public sector because of its military strength does not equate to a strong welfare state! I really do not think the link from Bismarck to Covid is a stretch. Welfare states are notoriously difficult to dismantle once they are in a nation’s DNA.
Finally, near the end, the author praises democracy but doesn’t see the point that democracy is in a major crisis at the moment with a complete lack of transparency and accountability. It is fair to argue that democracy in India is not working. I would certainly rather live in Singapore than India.
Yes, Mishra’s article is bordering on silly at parts but Mr Franklin’s retort is embarassingly unresearched. Simply replying ‘oh look at Japan and Germany they had Fascists hehe haha’ does not mean that aspects of their contemporary welfare systems are not superior to the US and the UK.
Perhaps so, but it was the inherent qualities of those societies that enabled Fascism to grow as it did-authoritarianism, poverty, rampant inflation, etc.. Poor old Moseley’s boys in Britain just got a bit of a kicking.
you’re ignoring the fact that the USA has an enormous welfare state – an expenditure of ca. $1.15 trillion or 15% of govt. budget.
Unemployment pay in the US is higher than in UK, state pensions are higher than in UK, and despite propaganda to the contrary, millions of Americans get free healthcare from the US state. (Currently ca. 47% of Americans get free government healthcare). It’s a different system and may not cover everything one would wish to cover, but there is a strong welfare state.
Dan Poynton
3 years ago
As a lover of the great diversity all the wonderful cultures and ethnicities give our world, but also as one who has recently been saddened by the oikophobia of Westerners and the constant demonising of the West by others, I wish I could express my feelings and thoughts (and have all the great info on hand to back it up) as succinctly, humanely and with such balance as the good Mr Franklin.
Andrew Thompson
3 years ago
Don’t like it Mishra? Close the door behind you please.
andy.mycock1
3 years ago
Interesting piece but i am not convinced the ‘good v bad’ lens is the best to understand the Anglo-American relationship or the wider Anglosphere. Peter, i would strongly recommend (as co-editor and author) this fine volume published on the Anglosphere earlier this year to fully explore the differing dimensions of these relationships
i am not not knocking the essay it is well presented and even handed…but this sort of essay would have been close to stating the *bleedin obvious* not that many years ago in it’s even handed view of history. The Black Lives Matter movement is just the emergent entity of the whole crazy attempt in academia to build a solely antipathetic view of Western History. The narrative of British original sin is used to crate a crazy edifice in which Britain created an even more monsterous American society in the 1700s, which, although that society rebelled against British rule remains somehow inextrictably linked to Britain in 2020. This is done of course because somehow our 3 people a year killed by Police (mostly these days knife murders acting crazily or in an organised way in support of an islamist world view) has to be come equivalent to a country of much greater size where around 1,000 are killed a year for the requirements of the mad post grad thesis.
We all know africans became rich and powerful by selling African slaves to European traders, that slavery existed across the world and within African societies as well.
Or rather we used to know all this..I wonder what has been taught in our schools as history the last forty years or so, because far from British misrule being hidden it seems the actual facts of history that don’t fit the thesis have been systematically omitted.
Rex Pagan
1 year ago
Interesting observation about UK and US never going full fash, unlike the continentals who did. Two responses: Importantly, France never did either, nor Netherlands nor Scandinavia, all of which, particularly the latter, are closer to socialism now than either US or UK. Secondly, although UK never went full fash, Mishra groups it with “turbocapitalist bandit” US, raising question why, with a feudal history similar to that of the continentals, it ends up more like US than the latter. Could it be because of the success and later dominance of its former colony the US? Or because of UK’s former world dominance?
Mishra would appear to be just another UK/US/West hater. Academia is full of them. I just with these people would put their lifestyle where their mouths are and live for a few years without all the technology and medicine that evil white men invented.
I like the idea of us atoning and apologising for our failures.
I also like the idea of us celebrating and proclaiming our successes.
I wish the left would actually do this atoning they always talk about. One day they might even atone for Rotherham.
Well done Mr Franklin for this interesting polemic, that clearly exposes the hypocritical tosh that passes for historical criticism of the ‘Anglo World’.In particular your exposure of
Mishra, as nothing more than yet another, virulent anti- West shrieker, was a delight.
Perhaps he should marry Ms Gopal, the malignant Cambridge butterfly? They would get on famously. However that would be impossible, as that inestimable gift to civilisation, the Indian Caste system would get in the way, and Gopal, a Brahmin would be defiled, and probably have to self immolate.
For the past seventy five years, the triumphant Anglo World has presided over an era of peace and prosperity unparalleled since the days of Ancient Rome. We should celebrate our ‘exceptionalism’ not indulge in an orgy of self criticism. We have nothing to be ashamed of by comparative analysis with the ‘others’, or as Kipling put it so prosaically, “lesser breeds”.
One needs to be careful about quoting Recessional. After all what characterised for Kipling “lesser breeds without the Law” (an obvious Biblical allusion) was “such boastings as the Gentiles use”. The touchstone of the British Empire, according to that poem (written at its zenith to mark Queen Victoria’s Jubilee) was humility: “Lo all our pomp of yesterday is one with Nineveh and Tyre”… “still stands thine ancient sacrifice, an humble and a contrite heart”… “Lest we forget”. Perhaps, though, that is something which we do not have in common with the USA.
Surely both in Recessional and White Man’s Burden, Kipling was trying to have it both ways as we might say?
Am I right in thinking that Take up the White Man’s Burden was actually written about the United States
Yes, it was about their recent conquest of the Philippines, as a result of their overwhelming victory in the Spanish-American War.
‘Boris Johnson and Donald Trump epitomise the decline of Anglo-America, the fact remains that both men can be voted out of office.’
Ursula von der Leyen became President of Europe under a procedure that can only be called a stitch-up. Macron and Merkel chose her; no other candidate was put before the Euro Parliament to be confirmed. She scraped through with the narrowest possible endorsement, with no other name on the ballot.
Even Vladimir would blush.
Delighted to see Pankaj Mishra’s deeply unhistorical theories so thoroughly & intelligently taken apart & its internal contradictions so politely exposed.
Wonder if he bothered to read this…No didn’t think so.
A most enjoyable essay, Mr Franklin, which prompts a couple of thoughts.
The Leftist notion of our ”broken” society tends to be applied to evil England; the Scots and Welsh getting an exemption from the sins of our past because they now vote a little to the left of centre rather than a little to the right (inasmuch as the left/right dichotomy has meaning these days).
As a continental nation, The United States is an empire within its own borders, like Russia, China and India, which creates a tendency towards greater authoritarianism in order to keep the nation whole. While Russia and China are truly authoritarian, the US balances its freedoms with heavily armed and sometimes violent/oppressive police and state forces (and I’m referring here to the past century rather than the current situation). It seems to me that if the EU achieves its ambition of becoming an empire it too will become more authoritarian and oppressive, prompting increased violence and inspiring an increase in nationalism (such as that seen in the former Austro-Hungarian empire in the 20th century, for example).
The Europhiles (or Eurofetishists as they have now become) constantly demand we be ‘more European’; but surely would go beserk were Boris Johnson to announce the introduction of identity cards, the arming of the police or the introduction of an inquisitorial legal system. This would doubtless be evidence of his ‘fascism’.
I’ve read Mishra’s article and my god, he hangs an awful lot on a tenuous thread which in itself hangs on the simple point that the current incumbents in USA and UK seem to be somewhat incapable of dealing with the pandemic. This is for completely different reasons though. To my mind Johnson has an inability to focus on more than one thing at a time and just couldn’t get his head round the fact that we faced an on coming disaster. The US on the other hand is cursed with a politics in which everything , whether disease, guns, climate etc, is seen through the simple lens of is it un-American , does it come from ‘the swamp’ and so on. To be fair to Johnson, the UK is now doing a lot better and leading on vaccine development . The rest of Mishra’s article seems to be pretty much your standard anti- west rant while conveniently ignoring a great number of ‘inconvenient truths’ about the rest of the world, including I might say, the role of African nations and people’s in capturing the slaves and selling them to the highest bidders. A practice which continued for some time after the west dropped out of the trade and the sellers looked for new buyers and markets.
While I agree with a lot of what you write the idea that ‘ the UK is leading on vaccine development ‘ will not be thought globally; it’s more of a Boris type sound bite. US & UK governments are frantic to find vaccines and treatments and apps so that their mishandling of the pandemic that has caused such high death tolls in both countries can be mitigated. Vast sums of money have been handed out by UK government on Apps and test & trace system run by Serco , both that have been demonstrated not to work effectively and other contracts too all which need investigating to see who and why these lucrative contracts were given.
If you look at the Oxford vaccine and how it was tested initially on less than 10 monkeys all of which went on to develop C19 but did not go on to suffer the worst effects such as compromised lungs leading to death you might wonder why apart from money to be made, this vaccine is being pursued. Some UK scientists have suggested immunity conferred by actually contracting C19 only lasts for a few months as does immunity to the common cold, also caused by a corona virus.
Why do not the UK government
1. Arrange effective hand sanitiser against viruses to be manufactured in bulk and be made readily available for sale at sensible,affordable prices. I have not been able to buy any on line and heard it said on BBC radio the most effective ones are available not in UK.
2. Similarly why not arrange manufacture of effective masks as described by WHO and sell them at a low price. UK needs masks that reduce transmission of virus not masks to encourage us it is safe to shop!
Pankaj Mishra is not one for letting the facts get in the way of a good rant.
His bizarre portrayal of Jordan Peterson as a “fascist mystic” “romancing the noble savage” was, I thought, a low point. Apparently not.
Brilliant article. If I wanted to change anything it would be the extent to which America is differentiated from the rest of the Anglosphere. It’s just a matter of degree. It could be averred that the elections of Johnson and Trump suggest the nations are rather in step.
I see very little similarity between Mr. Trump and Mr. Johnson – except the hair. In other respects, thank you for a good article.
I was thinking of the crucial nativist element amongst those who voted for them.
Boris really isn’t a nativist. When he was mayor of London he sang the praise of his city’s diversity.
Back when he was pro-EU he wanted Turkey to be admitted. As PM he has appointed the most diverse cabinet ever seen.
Nativists may vote Tory, but that’s because they have no real choice, Nigel having gifted all his votes to lucky Boris.
Boris Johnson (can’t bring myself to call him “Boris”) really isn’t anything. Here’s what he said about himself, describing his transparent alter ego in his semi-autobiographical fantasy of a novel, Seventy-Two Virgins:
“To a man like Roger Barlow the whole world just seemed to be a complicated joke “¦ everything was always up for grabs, capable of dispute; and religion, laws, principle, custom ““ these were nothing but sticks from the wayside to support our faltering steps.”
I know, I have little faith in Johnson. But it looks as though he wants to get Brexit done, which would be an improvement on May and Cameron.
Here is an excellent piece by Mark Steyn which explains the accidental way Boris became a brexiteer. He didn’t think he’d win; he was just storing up credit for the post-Cameron shuffle.
https://www.steynonline.com…
Merely another example of his opportunism.
I have little faith in Boris Johnson but i do have *faith* in Brexit as a trigger to possible reform within the EU, especially when, as they are trying like mad to prevent right now in negotiations, the UK can adapt better to the post Covid-19 depression than I believe will be possible in Europe.
If it truly was a trade liberalisation and promotion community as one would imagine from the negotiations that are entirely couched in such language, then we wouldn’t have left.
If it were to become such at some stage in the future we would apply to rejoin. When it WAS that in the 1970s we voted 70% to remain in it.
I concur, it should be Boris Johnson, KS.
I agree with everything you say, although on appointments, I have some suspicions that Munira Mirza and Suella Braverman may not be quite as diverse as they look. But the nativist element amongst the voters carries some real weight nowadays.
In UK, just as in the US, the native and ‘nativist’ demographic is an ageing and shrinking sector of the population.
By the middle of this century the US will be white-minority and the election of a Trump will be an impossibility.
UK too, I should think. The nativist element has nowhere to go.
I read Mishra’s article and found it odd how much he praised Communism and authoritarianism while criticising democracy. I therefore thought that it would not be difficult to pick apart his argument. However, Mr Franklin shows an incredibly ignorant and ideological worldview which is just as bad, only on the other side.
Firstly, picking apart ‘Anglo-America’ is very pedantic as it is a commonly-used way of describing the US and Britain.
Secondly, I am afraid that trying to claim that the UK has coped as well as France, Spain and Italy with the pandemic is deluded. We had far more time to react to the issue and have done very little in comparison. Yes, we have a high population density but Mr Johnson literally ignored expert advice and simplified Covid to being as bad as flu up to mid-March!
Thirdly, if Mr Franklin has ever looked at a history of welfare systems there is a clear history of ideas which delineates the US and UK from European models. Read Thomas Esping-Andersen!! Saying that the US has a large public sector because of its military strength does not equate to a strong welfare state! I really do not think the link from Bismarck to Covid is a stretch. Welfare states are notoriously difficult to dismantle once they are in a nation’s DNA.
Finally, near the end, the author praises democracy but doesn’t see the point that democracy is in a major crisis at the moment with a complete lack of transparency and accountability. It is fair to argue that democracy in India is not working. I would certainly rather live in Singapore than India.
Yes, Mishra’s article is bordering on silly at parts but Mr Franklin’s retort is embarassingly unresearched. Simply replying ‘oh look at Japan and Germany they had Fascists hehe haha’ does not mean that aspects of their contemporary welfare systems are not superior to the US and the UK.
Perhaps so, but it was the inherent qualities of those societies that enabled Fascism to grow as it did-authoritarianism, poverty, rampant inflation, etc.. Poor old Moseley’s boys in Britain just got a bit of a kicking.
you’re ignoring the fact that the USA has an enormous welfare state – an expenditure of ca. $1.15 trillion or 15% of govt. budget.
Unemployment pay in the US is higher than in UK, state pensions are higher than in UK, and despite propaganda to the contrary, millions of Americans get free healthcare from the US state. (Currently ca. 47% of Americans get free government healthcare).
It’s a different system and may not cover everything one would wish to cover, but there is a strong welfare state.
As a lover of the great diversity all the wonderful cultures and ethnicities give our world, but also as one who has recently been saddened by the oikophobia of Westerners and the constant demonising of the West by others, I wish I could express my feelings and thoughts (and have all the great info on hand to back it up) as succinctly, humanely and with such balance as the good Mr Franklin.
Don’t like it Mishra? Close the door behind you please.
Interesting piece but i am not convinced the ‘good v bad’ lens is the best to understand the Anglo-American relationship or the wider Anglosphere. Peter, i would strongly recommend (as co-editor and author) this fine volume published on the Anglosphere earlier this year to fully explore the differing dimensions of these relationships
https://global.oup.com/acad…
i am not not knocking the essay it is well presented and even handed…but this sort of essay would have been close to stating the *bleedin obvious* not that many years ago in it’s even handed view of history.
The Black Lives Matter movement is just the emergent entity of the whole crazy attempt in academia to build a solely antipathetic view of Western History.
The narrative of British original sin is used to crate a crazy edifice in which Britain created an even more monsterous American society in the 1700s, which, although that society rebelled against British rule remains somehow inextrictably linked to Britain in 2020.
This is done of course because somehow our 3 people a year killed by Police (mostly these days knife murders acting crazily or in an organised way in support of an islamist world view) has to be come equivalent to a country of much greater size where around 1,000 are killed a year for the requirements of the mad post grad thesis.
We all know africans became rich and powerful by selling African slaves to European traders, that slavery existed across the world and within African societies as well.
Or rather we used to know all this..I wonder what has been taught in our schools as history the last forty years or so, because far from British misrule being hidden it seems the actual facts of history that don’t fit the thesis have been systematically omitted.
Interesting observation about UK and US never going full fash, unlike the continentals who did. Two responses: Importantly, France never did either, nor Netherlands nor Scandinavia, all of which, particularly the latter, are closer to socialism now than either US or UK. Secondly, although UK never went full fash, Mishra groups it with “turbocapitalist bandit” US, raising question why, with a feudal history similar to that of the continentals, it ends up more like US than the latter. Could it be because of the success and later dominance of its former colony the US? Or because of UK’s former world dominance?