One can only imagine the wall-to-wall coverage there would be of this in The Guardian and BBC etc if it was a British operation: the ‘imperial obsession’ in action. As it is our enlightened European cousins putting boots on the ground in Africa: shhh…
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago
‘The French have a dislike of Islamism that is visceral, reflexive.’
Then why is their own country home to countless Islamists? Either way, it’s the unspeakable in pursuit of the unbeatable. Some things never change.
Because they have muslim migrants. Just like we (every country in the world) have child abusers and molesters. The berbers in France (Zidane) while theoretically Muslims are very much not interested in Islam. The same thing for Kurds and Turkish Alevis in Germany.
Mark Corby
3 years ago
A most Interesting resume of France’s latest military debacle.
It follows in the tradition of Indo-China, Algeria, and the lunatic bombing of the Greenpeace ship, ‘Rainbow Warrior’ in 1985, amongst other less well known fiascos.
Islamist terrorism, or any form of terrorism, will never be ‘defeated’ by the military alone. I wrote a whole book on this a few years ago (An End to the War on Terrorism: Rowman and Littlefield 2018). Yes, there is a role for the military and yes a dead terrorist is a good terrorist but ‘defeating’ terrorism is much more complicated than sending out patrols and carrying out drone/air strikes.
I am sure your book is interesting and well argued, and of course military means purely on their own may not be effective, but I believe terrorism has sometimes been largely militarily defeated. For example ETA in Spain. Probably the provisional IRA as well. The Sahel does seem to be a difficult region to do so however, though it is on Europe’s doorstep. And such a radical ideology as extreme Islamism, with absolutely no concern about the deaths of their own ‘soldiers’ let alone anyone else’s, works in their favour. Do you have any particular suggestions? Do the French and the West have other strings to their bow?
While I can see the French approach might not work, what is to be done in the face of this truly evil ideology? I rather admire the robustness of the French at least in their foreign policy, though they have a huge internal issue with many of their muslim population hating their own country and routinely applauding terrorist attacks. (I have a friend who is a secondary school teacher in Paris who tells me this). In the UK we live in an increasingly naive and hand wringing society where we think our terrorist enemies should be put on trial, which is not generally feasible because of the difficulty of gaining ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ evidence. ISIS et al think of it as a war, even if many westerners don’t. Human rights activists would anyway be arguing for all sorts of extenuating circumstances and for the shortest possible sentences for any convicted. Let’s see for example what now eventually happens to that wretched woman Shamina Begum.
Bill Brookman
3 years ago
We appear to be well-into unending wars. Napoleon’s battles lasted 1-2 days, WW1’s were months, now multiple years. I suspect two reasons: technology permitting the troops to be re-supplied ad infinitum, and a more disturbing one: that whenever one side or another is about to lose, the West worries about the civilians, mounts humanitarian convoys and the whole shooting-match gets re-invigorated. What is a sure-fire way to bring peace? Victory by one side or the other.
…I believe you’ll find that the UK is about to deploy troops to support the French in the Sahel…a “Long Range Reconaissance Group” based on troops from one of the light cavalry regiments
This is clearly a very difficult operation and France has done well to have had only 43 killed in six years of fighting. Given the nature of the battlefield, perhaps the successful British counter-insurgency campaign in Oman, may offer some lessons. As it is, according to Jane’s (27 Apr 20), the deployment of UK recon unit will be delayed till the end of the year as their camp won’t be ready till then.
sheybby
3 years ago
It is not just Mali that is in trouble, Burkina Faso and Niger are walking the path that leads to state failure. The thing about Mali or Afghanistan or any other theatre of operation where a western power battles an insurrection is that it always end being caught in the “State-Making” trap.
France is not trying to fight terrorists. In reality, it is preventing its own creation “Mali and the whole Western Sahel region”to turn into failed States and be overrun by jihadist groups. The entreprise is doomed to fail because the Sahel States political and socio-economic structure is not sustainable.
If there is one thing to learn from European history, it is that strong and enduring State emerge spontaneously. In the 1980s, American sociologist Charles Tilly made the argument that European States were produced as unintended consequences of the competition between West European monarchs to control territory and capital. Externally, the State wages war against external actor in order to secure its access over a specified territory. Within the same territory, the state eliminates any potential rival that would challenge its will to use coercion to extract resources. The wars of the 18th and 19th centuries saw armies grew in size with the rise of standing armies and the development of strong national identities.
Charles Tilly argues that States created following the decolonization went through a different process of state-making and emerged from outside forces rather than inside ones. As a consequence, these states are creation of external actors something that impacts their military organization, the ability to collect taxes and more generally the organic relationship between rulers and ruled.
As it is the case of most African countries, due to a lack of legitimacy the Malian State has never been able to claim a monopoly of force, thereby pushing ruling elites to resort to clientelist strategies and militias to control the northern part of the country. As a consequence, it opened the gate for competing organizations to challenge its legitimacy. Strong states derive from the state’s ability to neutralize its rivals outside and inside its territory in order to sell protection and extract resources. Because they rely on their own forces, the jihadists are able to sell protection and build an administration to collect taxes within the territory they control. It is a recurring story, in many parts of the Islamic world, religious groups do a better job at being a “State” than national authorities.
If the Malian State legitimacy was to be assessed based on its ability to control its territory, Mali would be reduced to the Niger River. Generally speaking in Africa, rulers tend to be very fearful to be overthrown by a military coup. Therefore, they tend to make sure that the military command is filled with loyal friends, thereby undermining the capacities of their armed forces to do what they are supposed to do: waging war.
In 2013, the initial confrontation with the Tuareg rebellion demonstrated how the Malian defence forces were nothing more than a bunch of mercenaries. When the conflict broke out, the Malian army chain of commands completely collapsed and soldiers fled the battlefield without fighting. Eventually, the demise of the Mali’s armed forces engendered the collapse of the entire Malian State, forcing the French to intervene to protect its diaspora living in Bamako. Now France is stuck trying to rebuild something that cannot be.
By the late 1960s, American forces were staying in Vietnam not because they were in a position to win but only to prevent South Vietnam from being conquered by North Vietnamese forces.
Mali’s fall is written in the stars. As it is the case of most of the Sahel States, it is doomed to fail because in its current form, the Malian State has no legitimacy in the eyes of many segments of the population, especially in the North where French forces are deployed.
My country fas fallen victim to its own folie des grandeurs and the French ruling-class cannot accept that France is no longer in a position to enforce the Pax Francia in West Africa.
One can only imagine the wall-to-wall coverage there would be of this in The Guardian and BBC etc if it was a British operation: the ‘imperial obsession’ in action. As it is our enlightened European cousins putting boots on the ground in Africa: shhh…
‘The French have a dislike of Islamism that is visceral, reflexive.’
Then why is their own country home to countless Islamists? Either way, it’s the unspeakable in pursuit of the unbeatable. Some things never change.
https://www.cbsnews.com/new…
Because they have muslim migrants.
Just like we (every country in the world) have child abusers and molesters.
The berbers in France (Zidane) while theoretically Muslims are very much not interested in Islam.
The same thing for Kurds and Turkish Alevis in Germany.
A most Interesting resume of France’s latest military debacle.
It follows in the tradition of Indo-China, Algeria, and the lunatic bombing of the Greenpeace ship, ‘Rainbow Warrior’ in 1985, amongst other less well known fiascos.
Vive la France!
Yes, Vive La France!
Their contribution to humanity is second to none.
Don’t you mean second to one….us?
Second to Greeks and Romans
1) Ancient Greeks and Romans
2) Britain (UK?), France, Germany
3) Italy (Italy + Rome = Number 1)
Yes, I think we can agree on that.
Islamist terrorism, or any form of terrorism, will never be ‘defeated’ by the military alone. I wrote a whole book on this a few years ago (An End to the War on Terrorism: Rowman and Littlefield 2018). Yes, there is a role for the military and yes a dead terrorist is a good terrorist but ‘defeating’ terrorism is much more complicated than sending out patrols and carrying out drone/air strikes.
I am sure your book is interesting and well argued, and of course military means purely on their own may not be effective, but I believe terrorism has sometimes been largely militarily defeated. For example ETA in Spain. Probably the provisional IRA as well. The Sahel does seem to be a difficult region to do so however, though it is on Europe’s doorstep. And such a radical ideology as extreme Islamism, with absolutely no concern about the deaths of their own ‘soldiers’ let alone anyone else’s, works in their favour. Do you have any particular suggestions? Do the French and the West have other strings to their bow?
While I can see the French approach might not work, what is to be done in the face of this truly evil ideology? I rather admire the robustness of the French at least in their foreign policy, though they have a huge internal issue with many of their muslim population hating their own country and routinely applauding terrorist attacks. (I have a friend who is a secondary school teacher in Paris who tells me this). In the UK we live in an increasingly naive and hand wringing society where we think our terrorist enemies should be put on trial, which is not generally feasible because of the difficulty of gaining ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ evidence. ISIS et al think of it as a war, even if many westerners don’t. Human rights activists would anyway be arguing for all sorts of extenuating circumstances and for the shortest possible sentences for any convicted. Let’s see for example what now eventually happens to that wretched woman Shamina Begum.
We appear to be well-into unending wars. Napoleon’s battles lasted 1-2 days, WW1’s were months, now multiple years. I suspect two reasons: technology permitting the troops to be re-supplied ad infinitum, and a more disturbing one: that whenever one side or another is about to lose, the West worries about the civilians, mounts humanitarian convoys and the whole shooting-match gets re-invigorated. What is a sure-fire way to bring peace? Victory by one side or the other.
(Always enjoy your writing, John.)
I think France was more or less continuously at war from about 1794 to 1815 – hardly one or two days!
There is always the Mongol solution
…I believe you’ll find that the UK is about to deploy troops to support the French in the Sahel…a “Long Range Reconaissance Group” based on troops from one of the light cavalry regiments
Oh dear….more British body bags.
This is clearly a very difficult operation and France has done well to have had only 43 killed in six years of fighting. Given the nature of the battlefield, perhaps the successful British counter-insurgency campaign in Oman, may offer some lessons. As it is, according to Jane’s (27 Apr 20), the deployment of UK recon unit will be delayed till the end of the year as their camp won’t be ready till then.
It is not just Mali that is in trouble, Burkina Faso and Niger are walking the path that leads to state failure. The thing about Mali or Afghanistan or any other theatre of operation where a western power battles an insurrection is that it always end being caught in the “State-Making” trap.
France is not trying to fight terrorists. In reality, it is preventing its own creation “Mali and the whole Western Sahel region”to turn into failed States and be overrun by jihadist groups. The entreprise is doomed to fail because the Sahel States political and socio-economic structure is not sustainable.
If there is one thing to learn from European history, it is that strong and enduring State emerge spontaneously. In the 1980s, American sociologist Charles Tilly made the argument that European States were produced as unintended consequences of the competition between West European monarchs to control territory and capital. Externally, the State wages war against external actor in order to secure its access over a specified territory. Within the same territory, the state eliminates any potential rival that would challenge its will to use coercion to extract resources. The wars of the 18th and 19th centuries saw armies grew in size with the rise of standing armies and the development of strong national identities.
Charles Tilly argues that States created following the decolonization went through a different process of state-making and emerged from outside forces rather than inside ones. As a consequence, these states are creation of external actors something that impacts their military organization, the ability to collect taxes and more generally the organic relationship between rulers and ruled.
As it is the case of most African countries, due to a lack of legitimacy the Malian State has never been able to claim a monopoly of force, thereby pushing ruling elites to resort to clientelist strategies and militias to control the northern part of the country. As a consequence, it opened the gate for competing organizations to challenge its legitimacy. Strong states derive from the state’s ability to neutralize its rivals outside and inside its territory in order to sell protection and extract resources. Because they rely on their own forces, the jihadists are able to sell protection and build an administration to collect taxes within the territory they control. It is a recurring story, in many parts of the Islamic world, religious groups do a better job at being a “State” than national authorities.
If the Malian State legitimacy was to be assessed based on its ability to control its territory, Mali would be reduced to the Niger River. Generally speaking in Africa, rulers tend to be very fearful to be overthrown by a military coup. Therefore, they tend to make sure that the military command is filled with loyal friends, thereby undermining the capacities of their armed forces to do what they are supposed to do: waging war.
In 2013, the initial confrontation with the Tuareg rebellion demonstrated how the Malian defence forces were nothing more than a bunch of mercenaries. When the conflict broke out, the Malian army chain of commands completely collapsed and soldiers fled the battlefield without fighting. Eventually, the demise of the Mali’s armed forces engendered the collapse of the entire Malian State, forcing the French to intervene to protect its diaspora living in Bamako. Now France is stuck trying to rebuild something that cannot be.
By the late 1960s, American forces were staying in Vietnam not because they were in a position to win but only to prevent South Vietnam from being conquered by North Vietnamese forces.
Mali’s fall is written in the stars. As it is the case of most of the Sahel States, it is doomed to fail because in its current form, the Malian State has no legitimacy in the eyes of many segments of the population, especially in the North where French forces are deployed.
My country fas fallen victim to its own folie des grandeurs and the French ruling-class cannot accept that France is no longer in a position to enforce the Pax Francia in West Africa.